According to ksat.com, locals who witnessed the shooting this morning in Sutherland Springs, Texas returned fire at the gunman and followed as he tried to escape.
Summer Caddel said her boyfriend, Johnnie Langendorff, called her moments after the shooting at First Baptist Church and told her that he saw a gunfight between the shooter and a neighbor, who was returning fire.
Langendorff then told Caddel the suspect — who has not been publicly identified — then got into an SUV and drove away, and the two gave chase.
Langendorff apparently chased the shooter down while on the phone with a 911 operator until the shooter’s SUV crashed.
The shooter was killed after a brief chase north into neighboring Guadalupe County, according to Guadalupe County Sheriff’s Office spokesman Robert Murphy. It is unclear if the shooter was killed by police or took his own life, Murphy said.
The shooter remains unidentified, though a press conference is due to begin soon which should shed more light on the murderer and possibly his motivation.
This is huge. They’ll still argue that he got away with killing nearly 30. Still probably saved some people though.
That’s just the thing, though. No one can prevent an ambush. The best you can hope for is to quickly respond. I remember when all the anti-gunners made a big dinner out of Chris Kyle’s death. “If someone so well trained couldn’t stop bad guy, what makes you think you can?” What they failed to comprehend is that anyone can kill anyone with anything if they have the element of surprise. You can’t prevent an ambush. But you can cut it short.
The argument always centers on whether or not a good guy with a gun is even capable of doing any good at all. If the facts are that a good guy with a gun offed the bad guy, then that’s a nice rebuttal to the specious nonsense that a good guy with a gun is useless and instead allows the conversation to be framed as “how many lives could have been saved if someone had returned fire sooner?”
And think what might have been, how many innocent victims might now be alive, if three or four of the people inside that church had been armed and properly trained to deliver a headshot at close range for self-defense. This murderer would have been dropped instantly and perhaps the toll of dead and wounded could have been reduced by 80 or 90%. None of us who regularly carry concealed should ever leave the house unarmed. We should always be prepared for the worst to happen.
This is true, action is faster than reaction. But reaction can stop action before it was intended to stop. The man who shot back saved an unknown amount of lives no doubt. If he only saved 1 life it would still be noteworthy.
Oh look, Church was gun free and armed citizen stopped him. Just wait till the “white” attacker turns out to be a mudslime.
Devin P Kelley. 26 white male. Mother in law has a Sutherland PO box.
Reports are that he was a dishonorably discharged Air force veteran.
A DD is a federal prohibitor from gun ownership. They are VERY hard top get in the USAF.
“A DD is a federal prohibitor from gun ownership. They are VERY hard top get in the USAF.”
And yet, he bought the gun in 20016, several years after his DD. He passed the NICS check.
Alternate story is that he was awarded a BCD (Bad Conduct Discharge), not a DD, and our low information media does not know the difference, having (mostly) never served. BCD and DD are not the same thing, whether BCD precludes firearm ownership or not, I dunno.
What makes you say the church was a gun free zone?
In rural Texas and NO ONE was armed???
“In rural Texas and NO ONE was armed???”
As the shooter left the church, a local resident got in a firefight with the shooter.
The shooter dropped his Ruger AR-platform rifle, and drove off.
Another local resident saw what was happening, and chased the shooter in his vehicle.
A few miles down the road, the shooter’s vehicle left the road. The shooter was found dead in the vehicle, unclear if he was shot by the person chasing him, or if it was by his own hand.
2 dead outside the church, 24 inside the church.
Unclear if either of the 2 outside dead engaged in firefight with the murderer.
SOURCE – The live LE press conference that just finished…
There were some hero local residents who did what they could to stop that POS, and it looked like it worked.
My hat’s off to them, whoever they were…
Low crime areas make people complacent. A Gun in the truck is not worth a pistol on the hip. A lesson worth remembering, boys and girls. That unidentified hero gets my vote for man of the year.
It looks like the killer was engaged by armed citizens who then followed him as he tried to get away. Perhaps he was killed by one of them in the firefight. Nonetheless, their quick action undoubtedly saved lives. They were armed Texans facing a spree killer. Of course they fought back. So far, this part of the story is being ignored by national news.
I still can’t subscribe to comments.
Nah, just another disgruntled democrat!
You know how it’s kid of tactless when anti-gunners hear a drop of blood hit the pavement and the start in with their “told ya so” routine and put their (always broken) psychic powers on display as they attempt to make a political point? Yeah, you’re doing that.
Son of a… I misspelled a bunch of stuff in that post. I hate the site’s freaking comments section.
Knot az bad az eye hates spellin
More Islamophobic slurs that go uncriticized by other posters and unedited by mods… these are the values of this sorry site
to be fair, no one edits your anti-white or anti-Christian rhetoric either. Hate speech is free speech, yes even yours. I know liberty is probably icky to you, but you get the advantage of it here like everyone does.
. Back in the old CB days, sometimes Earatators would start fights, some people would fight, I just turned my radio off. ,,,,,.. . , Islamaphobia, funny how I’ve never heard that word until 9-11. And the pathetic utube beheadings, and Baltimore bombings , and “courageous “Syrians who fled their country . I believe I will be a “courageous” American and flee my country because some militia gangsters want to have sex with my nine year old daughter . You reap what you sow
Thanks for putting this cretin in his place.
its called free speech. please go to the middle east or China if you like to control people.
I have multi-state carry permits. Mn gives me about 22 or so states ans Utah gives me an additional 10+ or so. I just want Utah so I can carry when visiting my parents in the San Juan Islands(Off the coast of Wa. state.) In order to obtain the Utah state carry permit, you have to know the rules and laws of Utah and pass a written course, along with fingerprints, digital mug shot and a few $. In Utah you are not allowed to carry a weapon into a place of worship, same as the u.s. post office. I do not make up the rules ,I just learn and obey. Could you imagine if there were no guns allowed in places of worship across the board? I do not and never have liked it. I am never in Utah, I hope the law is changed as people do not know or can predict when things are going to go wrong.
Nitpick: Utah as a state does not prohibit carry in places of worship. Places like churches have a couple of choices for giving citizens notice of a ban in their churches, which the Mormon church does on a regular basis (via newspapers). Once notice had been given in the proper way, anyone who violates the ban is in violation of state law.
So, the *state* doesn’t ban church carry, but 99% of churches in the state have gone through the process to enact their own ban, which carries the force of law. It’s not the state government’s fault, it’s the Mormon church’s decision.
Mean while on vice news: “why werent any of those gun nut texans armed to fight back?!?”
I wonder how long it’ll take the democrats in the Texas legislature to turn us into a gun control hell hole like California.
And they’ll get something because our Lt. governor and state GOP is f’n worthless, and they do what republicans do best: Sell out in the name of “bipartisanship”.
We’re so screwed.
The Republican Party everywhere is like the Italian and the French Armies, they surrender at the drop of a hat.
Pray for victims & families and hope the murder is burning in hell
Ray for $65/hour I offer deprogramming to help folks like you get out of the cult of Jesus corpse, we can help you overcome your silly delusions about an omniscient creature somehow attending to your petty whims, as well as this disturbing gruesome notion you have that folks who dont hold your delusions will be consigned to an eternal torture chamber…
Ah, come on. Weren’t you the one who was just complaining about all the Islamaphobic comments? Bad form.
Obviously you and Devin Patrick Kelley are members of the same church, Rob.
Why don’t you move back to africa and commune with your anti-G-d family?
I can do the same for only $50/hour. What a doofus.
Ah, why didn’t you tell us up front that you were a Crooked voter? We could then dismiss your rants without wasting the time to read them.
Looks like some people were their first responder. Good for them.
Here is one probable reason no one in the church was armed. See Handgunlaw.us and click on Texas:
Penal Code
46.035
Unlawful Carrying of Handgun By License Holder…
b)
A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun regardless of whether the handgun is concealed or carried in a shoulder or belt holster, on or about the license holder ’s person:…
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
Thomas, I mean no disrespect, but it seems you’ve only got partial information you’re working with. A licensed concealed carrier most certainly can carry a gun into a church in Texas unless the church forbids it (and provides adequate notice). I have been to some churches that don’t allow you to carry, but most in Texas allow guns. Hell, they opened a mosque down the street from our house and my wife and I went to their “see, we’re not all terrorists” open house and even they only banned open carry but allowed concealed carry.
It’s been a few years since i looked closely at the specifics of the law, but my understanding was Texas allowed churches to prohibit carry even though they were “public” places IF THEY WANTED TO. But it isn’t illegal unless signs are posted. Or you are told not to carry.
MY church is heavily armed. Many in Texas are. Some aren’t.
I would be willing to wager this target wasn’t random. This guy knew people here. And probably didn’t expect armed resistance from the church goers. Or possibly he took them out first. We will see…
I believe the church is allowed to post the notice in the church bulletin if they don’t want to put up signs at the entrance.
IANAL, but I don’t see how that would be considered a legal notice.
Would a random person visiting a church that did that know the policy?
Regardless of any of these legal niceties, if they are in the middle of “Shall We Gather at the River”, with their backs to the entrance, and someone comes in blazing with an AR it wouldn’t matter if half the congregation was packing, they were fish in a barrel just as much as the crowd in Las Vegas was packed into that fenced area and unexpectedly taking fire from away and above.
Speed, surprise, violence of action. It works for the bad guys too.
I get your point but I don’t fully agree with you. It takes time to shoot 30 people and less time for someone to react and shoot one person.
Figure it would take someone caught off guard two seconds to register what’s happening, a second to get to their feet, and three seconds to draw and return fire, that’s seven seconds (and we all know plenty of people who could do it faster than that). There’s no way the gunman could kill 30 people in seven seconds, provided they’re not all sanding in a stair step pattern or something like that. You’re right to say that a small church’s main worship hall isn’t big, but it’s big enough that he would have to fan his gun as he shoots. Even if he was a really fast and accurate shooter, someone could have returned fire before he had enough time to shoot 30 people that were disbursed within a room.
Of course, he may have gotten lucky and shot all the armed people first. But realistically, even if no one moves and inch, it takes SOME time to shoot them all. More time than it would take a person with some training to get into the fight.
Nehemiah 4
New International Version (NIV)
Opposition to the Rebuilding
4 Hear us, our God, for we are despised. Turn their insults back on their own heads. Give them over as plunder in a land of captivity. 5 Do not cover up their guilt or blot out their sins from your sight, for they have thrown insults in the face of[b] the builders.
6 So we rebuilt the wall till all of it reached half its height, for the people worked with all their heart.
7 But when Sanballat, Tobiah, the Arabs, the Ammonites and the people of Ashdod heard that the repairs to Jerusalem’s walls had gone ahead and that the gaps were being closed, they were very angry. 8 They all plotted together to come and fight against Jerusalem and stir up trouble against it. 9 But we prayed to our God and posted a guard day and night to meet this threat.
10 Meanwhile, the people in Judah said, “The strength of the laborers is giving out, and there is so much rubble that we cannot rebuild the wall.”
11 Also our enemies said, “Before they know it or see us, we will be right there among them and will kill them and put an end to the work.”
12 Then the Jews who lived near them came and told us ten times over, “Wherever you turn, they will attack us.”
13 Therefore I stationed some of the people behind the lowest points of the wall at the exposed places, posting them by families, with their swords, spears and bows. 14 After I looked things over, I stood up and said to the nobles, the officials and the rest of the people, “Don’t be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your families, your sons and your daughters, your wives and your homes.”
15 When our enemies heard that we were aware of their plot and that God had frustrated it, we all returned to the wall, each to our own work.
16 From that day on, half of my men did the work, while the other half were equipped with spears, shields, bows and armor. The officers posted themselves behind all the people of Judah 17 who were building the wall. Those who carried materials did their work with one hand and held a weapon in the other, 18 and each of the builders wore his sword at his side as he worked. But the man who sounded the trumpet stayed with me.
19 Then I said to the nobles, the officials and the rest of the people, “The work is extensive and spread out, and we are widely separated from each other along the wall. 20 Wherever you hear the sound of the trumpet, join us there. Our God will fight for us!”
21 So we continued the work with half the men holding spears, from the first light of dawn till the stars came out. 22 At that time I also said to the people, “Have every man and his helper stay inside Jerusalem at night, so they can serve us as guards by night and as workers by day.” 23 Neither I nor my brothers nor my men nor the guards with me took off our clothes; each had his weapon, even when he went for water.[c]
So what? Don’t we have examples more timely than 2000 years old?
Here’s the first hand account!!! Please pass along!
http://www.kens5.com/mobile/video/news/local/witness-describes-seeing-church-shooter-flee/273-2790920
Langendorff interview: link
Thank you.
As a Muslim American, I want to sincerely apologize for the shooting by the whacked out fringe. They do not represent us… wait… it was a white dude? And not a guy that watched ISIS videos and converted last week?
Never mind then, carry on…
Nice try, troll.
Not every crazed killer in the world has been made that way by Islam. It does not mean that Islam does not make too many people into crazed killers.
What happened in Las Vegas and today in Texas is amateur compared to what ISIS has done in the middle east in the name of Islam. ISIS= Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. They may or may not represent the majority of Muslims, but they certainly represent as Muslims and claim Islam sanctions their actions.
True, and I was trolling, I’ll admit that. But >98% of ISIS victims are other Muslims, there is war going on within Islam right now, and ISIS has been defeated morally, and hopefully (inshallah) on the battlefield as well.
In all seriousness, I do breathe a sigh of relief when this sort of thing happens and its not a Muslim, especially a church shooting. I could see ISIS craving a religious war here in the US
Whow 2aMuslims, that’s pretty darned good, I can understand where your coming from. I’m trying not to be prejudiced although it’s hard with all the ” death to America”, infidel, white Satan’s rhetoric, hopefully you see where I’m coming from. The world is runaway hate trip. one of my friends was Pakistani, now it’s just a hate trip and he was an OK guy
Fuck you and the rest of the worthless waste of skin Muslims . Get the fuck out of the US and don’t ever come back.
glad to see comments like these are A-OK but God help you if you point out that commenting on the fuckability of a woman working at a gun show is a bit creepy
Yeah the mods here are as ignorant and ugly as the posters, they allow all sorts of grotesque posts to remain unedited, nothing is too racist or Islamophobic, these are the values of the site
What am I, like invisible or something? 🙂
Don’t take that route. You alienate plenty of 2A supports and fence sitters taking that route. Also, you’ll get Rob to post about supporting Islam and in the next sentence declare Christendom a murder cult or something
Agreed.
The anti-gun cult doesn’t really mind people getting shot… as long as the government does it… in large numbers.
What they can’t abide is the intended victims shooting back. They consider it “unfair”.
To them, a woman shooting a rapist (or a citizen shooting a mass murderer) is as “unnatural” as an antelope suddenly growing fangs and claws and disemboweling a lion.
How long have you been dealing with the anti-gun cult?
wonder if it was Aifika??
Police said shot himself or the cops shot him. They’re leaving good guy with a gun clean out of the picture. So what I’m getting out of that is, it’s either got to be law enforcement stopping the threat or the threat stops itself. The good guy with a gun stopped the threat, just can’t happen
It would seem that this event puts the antis in a bad position…
OTOH, a bad guy used a gun to kill.
OTOH, a good guy with a gun at the very least cut the action short, and possibly killed the bad guy, with a gun.
Which gun to they want to ban?
It was a Texan with a close at hand long gun that stopped the killing.
Is was 50 years ago that over a 100 Texans with rifles in their vehicles used suppressive fire to prevent more killing by the clock tower shooter.
Good guys with guns are always the answer. When seconds count, the police where seven or eight minutes away.
Thank you Johnnie Langendorff, a good guy with a gun. And a thank you to the good guy who drove you, chasing the evil doer.
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