In the wake of Cody Wilson’s newly released and operational 3D printed firearm, gun control advocates are all aflutter. The idea that someone can print a gun at home without a background check is, as Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) puts it, “stomach-churning.” They can seem themselves losing control of the proliferation of firearms in the hands of citizens, and they’re striking back. Representatives Steve Israel and Charles Rangel (both D-NY) introduced a bill (H.R. 1474) that would expand the “Undetectable Firearms Act” (passed because of a movie, out of fear that Glock handguns could slip through security checkpoints), and add provisions that might put Magpul and other plastic magazine manufacturers out of business. Here are the main points of the proposed legislation . . .
- This law is now expanded to include the RECEIVER ONLY of the firearm and not just the completed firearm. So while a printed AR-15 receiver was legal before (because the barrel is still metal and visible on x-ray machines) this new language would make them illegal and possibly put Frontier Armory’s polymer AR-15 lower in the “illegal” category.
- Magazines that are not at least as visible as a stainless steel magazine on an x-ray would be illegal to produce by unlicensed manufacturers. I can’t decipher the legalese to figure out if this also applies to possession by unlicensed individuals, but that would mean the end of Magpul.
This act would restrict the availability of a number of products that are already on the market. Plastic magazines are WAY more popular than metal ones for the AR-15 platform. Which probably explains why they’re going after them — it’s a back door way of making the AR-15 less accessible. If people don’t have magazines, the guns are disturbingly difficult to shoot. Either way, this knee jerk reaction will probably die a quick death in the House, at which point the Democrats will again tear their clothes, wave the bloody shirt and claim that Republicans don’t care about the children.
DNC panic attack in 5… 4… 3…
Exactly how do they plan to enforce this? I can print magazines in my garage all day and they have no way of knowing.
Fear.
It will be handled exactly as we saw in the Boston rehearsal.
This +100000000000000000000
They will impose fees that will make these guns cost more than we make in a month. Or at least as much as a Glock 7.
Also, last I checked, weren’t magazines useless without bullets?
They’ve already got the bullets covered. Have you tried to buy ammo lately?
Yep, I’ve been able to buy 5.56 and 22lr in my area. It is available, but it is scarce. Ammo is not the point, they are trying to ban guns and parts.
Oh okay, well since you’re able to buy ammo that means we all are. I will go back to my store and stare at the empty-since-February shelves and wait for ammo to magically appear because according to you, they’re only trying to ban guns and parts.
Ammo is VERY much the point. If you think the government isn’t smart enough to attempt to control EVERY aspect of firearms simultaneously you are SORELY mistaken. Why do you think they ordered 1.7 billion rounds? Why do you think they put an arbitrary 100lb limit on shipping a primary reloading component? That information came straight from the Ramshot powder company representative at the Houston NRA convention last weekend by the way. Call them up and ask if you don’t believe me.
If you truly believe ammo (and all aspects of ammo) isn’t a part of their multi-pronged effort to control us simply because YOU can buy a few boxes at your local store you really need to think about things a little deeper than just what affects you.
Start by checking this out: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/05/foghorn/explosive-materials-background-check-bill-revealed/
Given that the price for a decent 3d printer is pretty close to the price of converting a Harbor Freight milling machine to CNC, metal guns are pretty damned easy, too. Mind you, DefCad is supplying ready-to-print files for receivers that work with relatively low quality plastic. The newer nylon copolymers are MUCH better than the ABS they tested the AR receiver with, but still not good enough to make the Liberator out of.
See my but but but comment on lout-en-berg’s powder bill.
Do they really think they’re scoring points that will redound to their benefit?
Like Napoleon said: “Never interfere with an enemy when he is making a mistake.”
I think we need an unofficial national holiday just to illustrate the reality of the world and how silly this is. We can call it “Make a Gun Day”.
Everyone on this particular day can fill congress’ inboxes with gun plans/drawings for simple home-made guns.
I’m an engineer. I’d participate.
‘Course, my representatives represent good sense, and need no convincing.
Mayhap I’ll send ’em to representatives from other states.
What about the Porclean Gun Ban? Or the Ban on guns that cost more than an airport police captain makes in a month?
You’d be surprised what they make in a month.
It’s a Die Hard 2 quote.
So was my line.
I make $7.40 an hour as an EMT. Im not surprised about what anyone makes.
I’m getting to the point that I want an explosive and final resolution to this situation so that the annoying nibbling assault will stop.
I’m thinking we’re getting closer and closer…
Dammit, I was just starting to see good plastic mags come back in stock across the board, at decent prices. I hope this has little chance of passing.
Why wouldn’t Magpul, supplier to the armed forces and law enforcement agencies of America, be considered a licensed manufacturer?
Seems like this is squarely targeted at preventing someone from printing off an open-source 40-round AR mag using a privately owned 3D printer loaded with the right plastics. Not an injection-molding manufacturer who is already licensed 6 ways from Sunday. Just sayin’…
you’re probably right, but at the same time, why shouldn’t I be able to make my own plastic magazine?
Does Magpul currently need a license for anything they manufacture? If not, they’re probably not currently a “licensed manufacturer”.
Magpul is a type 07 FFL (manufacture) as well as a type 02 SOT (NFA). They fall under ITAR so they can export weapons and parts to foreign countries. They are no different than Colt or DPMS other than they make stuff with plastic.
But if they didn’t export, they wouldn’t need a license, right? That is, they don’t manufacture anything that, apart from export rules, requires permission from the feds.
They’re neither Colt nor DPMS – they’re not manufacturing firearms (at least, as far as that term is defined for non-export purposes).
Unless, of course, there’s an entire Magpul product line that I’ve missed.
They are not an arms manufacturer, any more than is Hoppe’s.
The intent is, among other intents, to add hoops.
NY is so full of turds it’s unreal. Unfortunately, I still live here.
Come Colorado. We need all the freedom loving anti-establishment types we can get. The leftards from your state and California are out numbering the patriots. We welcome anyone who values liberty.
On my way…gimme a few weeks to sort things out. Darn, I miss mountains…
While I truly miss my dad, and extended family members who chose to remain under the boots of first Giuliani, and now Bloomberg, I am happy to be in a state where I can own and carry without being treated or referred to as a criminal. Granted, out of my two senators, one is a total liberal wuss(Bill Nelson), but our legislature has not jumped headfirst onto the the Common Sense(tm) bandwagon. Thankfully………..
I’m guessing that makes you a fellow Floridian. If you haven’t checked out Florida Carry (dot org)…they have a case going right now that might end up leading to constitutional open carry in Florida.
Thanks for the FL info. I’m a new gun owner and just getting up to speed on all the issues.
Florida is a great example of how a populace that has a hard time punching holes in paper (hanging chad) still manages to own and carry firearms without erupting into violence and bloodshed in the streets. And yet according to some, everyone in New York is under-qualified for such a responsibility.
When the government fears the people there is liberty.
When the people fear the government there is tyranny.
With all the congressional bedwetting over Cody, at least we know we are not all the way to tyranny…yet. Too bad they don’t understand that’s the way its supposed to be.
I’m really starting to love that guy. Anyone who make Schumer and Bloomberg pee their pants and still be legal about it is a friend in my book.
The Smith and Wesson MP15-22 is a polymer firearm as well. The bolt, barrel, and a few internals are the only metal parts on it.
Aww… crud; you’re right. That’s my favorite among the long guns I own.
Mine too. I was just cleaning mine after a morning at the range.
What impact, if any, will this legislation have on polymer framed guns?
Could be another end around to outlaw most modern handguns which are mostly made of polymer, aka “plastic”.
We must DO SOMETHING…ANYTHING!!!! Here’s an idea: how about boosting state/federal economic development incentives and support for cutting edge hi-tech businesses that are revolutionizing manufacturing and who, by the way, stand the best chance of creating jobs. What a concept!!!
It is impossible for the government to “keep guns out of the wrong hands”.
All they can ever accomplish is keeping guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens.
The NRA needs to make pointing that out a priority.
Well, keeping guns out of the right hands is at least keeping guns out of someone’s hands, and law abiding citizens make easier prey – at least until the laws break enough camels’ backs.
That way, they appear to be doing something.
When did “progress” take on the советский meaning it now has?
Ugh! Yuck! Bleah!
New Frontier’s phone lines are red hot and smoking, I’m thinking.
I called them to see if they know about this bill and the recording says they are not taking any calls.
And I just got my LW-15 based gun up and running….
“OMG! People Can Make Things That Kill People! OMG! OMG!”
It’s all just getting overwhelmingly ridiculous.
Apparently, we must now do everything in our power to demonize random things that could possibly be used to hurt other people.
Like plastic boxes. Wtf? So damned stupid.
Part of me wants this to die an ignoble death in committee and the other part of me wants this to get a big public vote and be crushed by overwhelming dissent.
So now SWAT teams will have to kick in everyone,s front door every week to make sure you did not print any guns or mags out…. How about “Shall not Be Infringed” they need to learn they too must obey the law or we have no law.
The attitude these sys is “I am the law,” rather than “I enforce the law.”
It’s an important distinction.
There is always stupid legislation introduced in Congress. I’ll worry about this when it has a chance of passing.
Here is the big problem with the law: If you want to manufacture a polymer magazine, you must have a manufacturer’s license (i.e. a license to manufacture firearms). Companies that produce magazines, like Magpul, don’t have manufacturer’s licenses. And to get a manufacturer’s license, you have to actually go into the business of manufacturing firearms. The ATF doesn’t let you just acquire licenses and not put them to actual use.
So, unless companies such as Magpul are willing to start manufacturing their own firearms (which is a huge commitment that may be unfeasible from a business standpoint) they cannot produce polymer magazines.
They’ve done it before…Magpul Masada anybody? You may now know it as the ACR. Still though, I get your point. As somebody else wrote, all of this crap is overwhelmingly ridiculous, and it just never seems to stop. I still haven’t seen a proposed ban on pressure cookers God damn it.
“Companies that produce magazines, like Magpul, don’t have manufacturer’s licenses”
Actually, it turns out that Magpul is an 07 FFL. From FFLRegistry.com:
FFL License: 5 – 84 – XXX – XX – XX – 03750
FFL License Type: 07 – Manufacturer
License Expires: 11/01/2014
(The license number (first 3, last 5) check out with the ATF).
“Companies that produce magazines, like Magpul, don’t have manufacturer’s licenses.”
Magpul has an 07 FFL. The number checks out with the ATF.
I’m not aware of any “firearms” that Magpul currently manufactures.
Notice that the sponsors are all Democrats. At this point, it should be reasonably clear to all gun owners that you must vote Republican if you are a true patriot. A vote for Democrats is a vote against America. Obama and his ilk are doing their best to tear this Country apart and turn it is to some kind of euro-weanie socialist nation. They must be stopped.
Biden wants to slow-play civilian disarmament because he needs time to change his panty liner.
They’ve been making kevlar and other carbon fiber knives that are serated and razor sharp for years. I am much more afraid of one of those than I am a .380, single shot, smoothbore, oversized pistol. And what difference does it make that the magazine is made of plastic? The spring is metal correct? The bullets are metal? WTF – when will they realize that the genie is out of the bottle and I can already go down to Home Depot, get some heavy guage PVC and a 20ga shell to make my own “plastic” zip gun?
Kevlar knives? Surely you jest. That’s like Jello-O bricks.
Ceramic, now…
Don’t plastic guns still have to fire metal ammunition? Wouldn’t all those bullets show up on the metal detector? I suppose I could secret them all about my body so as to not get the detector to go off.
A single shot plastic gun with 1 bullet is even too useless to even dumbass terrorists.
But not so useless that dumbass politicians won’t try to ban it.
…..and with that the price of PMAGS just jumped 100% :-\
I would cry if PMAGS were taken off of the civilian market, they are the most dead nuts reliable AR-15 magazines out there.
I’ve been thinking about carving out some nice magazines for my Arsenal out of a good hardwood. I think I may just go ahead and do it now before we can’t have plants or trees anymore like what is being proposed here: http://www.examiner.com/article/eu-to-criminalize-owning-seeds-if-not-registered-with-big-brother?cid=rss
In all fairness, the idea there is to control invasive species and preserve habitat.
Yes, it’s poorly written and likely impossible to implement in a sane fashion, but a damned sight better than a category spanning ban.
I’m a mair machinist, have a recipe or two for smokeless powder and can make primers.
Maybe it’s time to drop off the gun grid.
‘Course, considering that I was brazen enough to use my real name ’round here… see y’all in Leavenworth.
Funny, but I find most of the idiocy coming out of
Chuck Schumer’s mouth “stomach_churning”.
The scary stories are always about something plastic that won’t show up in an x ray, I don’t believe that is true, I think they are confusing xrays with metal detectors. The anti’s wouldn’t do that on purpose would they?
Are you implying that gun-grabbers would intentionally misrepresent facts in order to manipulate the ignorant masses and further their goals of civilian disarmament? Sir, how dare you suggest something so blatantly obvious?!
Actually most airports now use all x-ray machines.
Yeah, we computer people – the open source movement – have been in the trenches for a long time, now.
Did y’all know that it’s a violation of federal law for me to write a program to play DVD’s without MPAA-provided licensure, or for use on other than Window$ or Muck/OS? Yup – such a capability MIGHT be used to infringe copyright.
Even modifying a player so that I can “cut to the chase” is illegal.
This is no different. Take it from someone of Russian, Welsh and Lakota descent: waiting ’til tomorrow to fight back guarantees at best a long, hard slog and at worst total obliteration.
We must reach out, educate and bury our congress-critters in PAPER letters, lest the march toward serfdom become irreversible.
Damn why not just ban sharp sticks? Apparently they’ll be used in world war 4.
Exactly. The UK banned most pointy things years ago, and now nobody ever gets stabbed there anymore.
Olive wood is illegal in Калифорния, as it makes for truly outstanding clubs.
<arc>
Gods, I love прогрес.
</sarc>
Edit: This thing sure does mangle my typing…
<sarc>
Gods, I love прогрес.
</sarc>
I tried to tell you not to buy a Soviet-era surplus keyboard. But did you listen? Nooooo…
So many traitors, so little time.
They are going to have signs though? NO PLASTIC GUNS, there, that should do it, Randy
No Credibility. Too Late. Will Not comply. Good bye.
Oh that will really help stop mass whacks on the head with empty plastic magazines I mean really we were starting to have big problem with people sneaking empty magazines around next let’s ban cap guns and glue gun and nail guns and bb guns and airsoft guns and need guns and of course them DEADLY guns and them marshmallows blasters and rock and gum and anything that can be hid on a person or thrown. And people and animals and planets and cars and the sun because its messing up the ozone layer and building and air and water and food and trees and dirt and books and God and everything we can think of ALL RIGHT!!
Yep, a little control is never enough; it must be total, as in totalitarian; which is where the second amendment comes in; because they “absolutely will not stop” until we are all disarmed and in chains.
Just add enough metal particulate to the polymer so that it shows up on x-ray. Should not be too hard to accomplish.
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