Ron Spomer on the Legendary Arms Works Professional Rifle With 704 Action

1. And for less than I would have thought. I’ve been saying I need a 280AI again for a while now…

   • I bought a 280AI in the Professional. What a disappointment. The best accuracy I could get with factory ammo was 4 inches at 94 yards. I sent the rifle back to Legendary Arms. The production manager stated the problem was with the bedding of the stock and barreled action fit. He also stated that they did know of this problem with the 280AI and the 300 Winchester rifle in these chamberings.
     I had called them before purchasing the rifle to ask about the accuracy guarantee aswell about the stock and barreled action fit. They told me that the guarantee of accuracy is 1 inch or less at 100 yards with factory ammo just 5 days before I bought the rifle. I told them the rifle I wanted to buy. They did not say anything about the problem with stock to action fit. I spent $300 on factory ammo trying to find what would shoot 1″ or better at 100 yards.
     I do not recommend these rifles or the company. They have acted like a used car salesman. Told me what I want to hear, but then not doing what they say they will do.
     So guys beware. These rifle look great but shoot like crap. I will say it again. DO NOT BUY A LEGENDARY ARMS RIFLE.
     Brian

     • Got the rifle back from Legendary arms 2 days ago. They sent a test target with 2 groups shot with Nosler custom 280AI 140 grain Accubonds. The 1 st group measures 1.885 center to center 3 shot group and the 2nd measures 1.100 center to center. Even they could not get proof of the rifle capable of shooting the guarantee of 1inch or less with factory ammo at 100 yards. But I still went out to see what I could do with the factory ammo and some hand loads. The best 3 shot group at 96 yards was 1.229 inch and the worst was 4.996 inch. The average was 2.880 for 30 rounds. I let the barrel completely cool between 3shot groups. Was at the range for 6 hrs.
       Called legendary again yesterday. They want me to send the rifle back again.This really really sucks! I really do not trust this rifle.
       Brian

       • Yeah Brian, that does suck. Stick to your guns and insist they make this right. A guarantee is a guarantee. I can’t imagine the LAW folks won’t stick to it. It may be one of those bad barrels that pops up for no explainable reason. Regardless, the LAW team knows accuracy and how to achieve it and they’ve got a reputation to build, so they should make it right. I don’t know if I just got lucky with the 6.5 Creedmoor I tested, but it was one sweet shooting, consistently accurate rifle. No reason yours shouldn’t be, too. Keep me posted.

       • Well talked with Mark Basner yesterday. Told him that I was supposed to be up next wk on a cow hunt. I asked since the rifle even in his hands did not meet their guarantee. Can he just send me another rifle that would meet their guarantee or just give me my money back. He told me (NO). That after he fixes the problems with my rifle and once it has shot a 3shot group by them of 1 inch at 100 yards at a shooting range bench. It will be sent back to me. I asked is that a couple of consecutive 1″ three shot groups. He stated that if he shoots a full box of 20 so 6-7 3 shot groups and one of those groups falls 1inch or less. Then his guarantee is met.

         Just my opinion. But a rifle at the bench and is only able to do 1 inch 3 shot group every great once in awhile. Not a good rifle to hunt with here near Boise Idaho. At this point I will not hunt with this rifle.

         Brian

         • Sorry to hear you’re having such troubles, Brian. This suggests to me that manufacturers and buyers need to write out clear definitions of what guaranteed accuracy means to them. One could assume MOA means a rifle will put every bullet inside an inch at 100 yards for 3, 5, 10 or 1,000 consecutive shots.

       • I got a pleasant surprise today. I received a phone call from the
         CEO of Legendary Arms Mr. Dunn. He expressed how very sorry he is about the rifle and its performance. He said that after they fix whatever is causing the inaccuracy. That I will be completely happy with its performance.
         I got the impression that he really did care about me and how I felt about Legendary Arms. I look forward to seeing the rifle and how it performs.
         At this time I would like to say thankyou Mr.Dunn
         I will update you guy’s as I am updated.

         Brian

         • Excellent! It’s always great to learn of manufacturers who stand behind their products and support folks who buy them. I hope your rifle shoots as well as the LAW I tested.

2. Nice rifle, especially with the Timny trigger. BUT, those all look like three shot groups. I don’t think any manufacture has a right to call their rifle a 1/2″ MOA gun, unless it will put 5, not 3, into a 1/2″
   I remember Weatherby used to advertise there rifles would group 1″ with 3 shots. That always put me off.
   Why do they not want to fire 5 shots? Does that barrel heat up a bit and throw the last 2 off?

   • Gunr: To my knowledge every rifle manufacturer now used the 3-shot group as its standard for stating accuracy guarantees. My personal opinion is you’d need at least 10 shots, maybe 20 to REALLY tell if a rifle/ammo combo is accuracy consistent but… A careful shooter with a rifle that will put three consecutive shots inside 1 MOA, let alone 1/2 MOA, is deadly well past 800 yards on deer-sized game (vital zone, chest roughly 10 to 12 inches; MOA at 800 yards 8 inches.) Unless you flinch, you shouldn’t need more than 1 shot. The 3-shot accuracy consistency gives you two extra chances! I can live with that. But you are entitled to demand more of your rifles. That’s half the fun of this enterprise. Each of us gets to set our standards and work toward them. And manufacturers are free to establish their benchmarks. So long as they inform us what those benchmarks are, it’s all good. Happy shooting!

3. That price is actually reasonable. How the heck did that happen?

   • “That price is actually reasonable. How the heck did that happen?”

     Is Pennsylvania a right-to-work state?

     I’d be very interested in hearing Dyspeptic’s opinion on this rifle…

     • Never seen one. Their marketing stuff on their web site looks interesting, but raises several questions in my mind:

       – why aluminum bottom metal?
       – when I see a Remington-style recoil lug washer, my heart sinks. That’s a fundamental disqualification for a “really nice rifle” action.
       – the three position safety ala a Model 70 is an excellent feature. IMO, this is the only way to go on a hunting rifle.
       – there’s no indication whether the bottom of the action is round or flat.
       – I don’t know whether you can tune their CRF extractor to be able to slip over a case rim, as you can do with Win70 and Mauser extractors. Yes, it is possible to tune the claw extractor so you can push-feed a round and get the extractor over the rim.
       – Their spec sheet:

       http://www.legendaryarmsworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/LAW_M704_Specs.pdf

       contains contradictory information WRT the bolt. At point point, they say it is using 4340 steel, and in the very next breath, they say 4140. Both are entirely acceptable, with one caveat: if you ever wanted to weld a custom bolt handle onto a bolt made of 4340, you’re going to have to do some serious pre/post heating of the bolt. 4140 is much easier to weld up than 4340.

       – the one-piece bolt is nice, but perhaps more expensive than it needs to be. Dakota makes their bolt bodies from one piece of steel and then friction-welds the handles onto them. Making the bolt (handle, body, nose) from one piece of steel has got to result in a fair bit of waste material.

       • Hello Dyspeptic: Good observations and questions. If you watch my Deep Dive video on the LAW, you will see the round bottom action and the extractor hook snap over a cartridge rim. Lots of “inside” details in that video that should answer most of your questions. My guess why aluminum bottom metal is to save weight. I’ve hunted with several dozen bolt-action rifles, some steel bottom metal, some aluminum, and haven’t had a break or malfunction with either, so it’s no big deal to me. I do appreciate the weight issue on a mountain rifle. Climbing for sheep, goats, etc. is never easy and a heavy rifle makes it no more pleasant! If I might ask, why do you prefer steel bottom?

4. Second time to day I have seen LA rifle mentioned. Here and on Craig Boddington’s TV show. Hmmm…marketing push? Nice looking gun for the money but that Winchester “style” safety is a deal breaker. Do we really need another $1200 hunting rifle when a $400 will do the same thing?

   • Just because a $1200 rifle will do all a $400 will do does not mean that a $400 rifle can do what a $1200 rifle can do. If you canot detect the diffrence in capabilities between a $400 and $1200 gun, you should only buy the $400 gun.

     That being said, I do not possess the skill required to perceive the differences between the two, so I would buy the $400 gun. Not that the $1200 gun isn’t better, but that I cannot utilize its advantages.

5. At this point I cannot recommend LAW products. I have a professional in 280 that I’m lucky to shoot 5 moa with. Been without this rifle for over 3 weeks now (it is antelope rifle season in wyoming right now). VERY poor communication… they flat out ignored many of my emails. Time will tell if their “fix” will improve accuracy. Beyond disappointed with this purchase. Will probably dump this thing and get another Kimber Mountain Ascent.

6. I bought a legendary arms 280 ackley. I have tried nosler 140 ab factory ammo tried 139 hornady reloads 140/168 and 180 bergers 150 Sierra game kings with one 4831 h4831sc and rl22 reloads. The best group I can get is around 2″ the worst was with the factory nosler 140 they were so bad did not even measure wouldn’t fit on a dinner plate at 100 yards. I have emailed legendary arms twice over the week no reply. I wish I had seen these comments before my purchase accuracy of this rifle is the worst I have ever shot.

   • Sorry to hear that, Brent. I’ll forward your complaint to LAW and we’ll see what happens. I’m betting they’ll make good on it. They always have in the past. The 6.5 Creedmoor I tested functioned beautifully and shot with impressive accuracy. I don’t see why yours shouldn’t do the same.

     Ron

7. I bought a 300 win LAW rifle. After a shot, the bolt locks up and you cant turn it to extract the brass. Sent it in late august 2015, today is december 6. After numerous emails and phone calls i am still waiting to get my rifle back. This is the worst customer service i have ever experienced.

   • I hate to here how long you have been waiting. mine is there and they have not answered my email I sent wondering if they found what was wrong. It was a Christmas present, I was glad I put scope on and shot it before I gave it to him. But now sounds like I better do something different, if it takes that long to get back. I will have to keep rifle and chock up to learning experience.

     • Finally got my gun back from legendary arms its 280 ackley. They fit the stock and replaced the firing pin spring and had a target with load data. None of the three groups they shot themselves met there gaurantee, so I looked the target over with the manager at sportsmans warehouse in salt lake he agreed. And against there no return policy gave me my money back. That says something for sportsmans. When they sale a product and it will not perform like the manufacture gaurantees. At least they took care of it even though the manufacturer would not. I guess I am lucky to be rid of this gun. Sounds like they are becoming legends in ways they may not want. Very poor customer service. And I can’t understand why they would send a gun back when they can see it will not shoot their gaurantee.

8. Bought a Legendary Arms Works professional in 280 ackley and having similar accuracy problems as
   The other posters. I sent the rifle back to LAW and they bedded the front recoil lug and replaced the firing pin spring. The test targets that came back were mostly in the 1.5 to 2″ range with a couple just around an inch. Most of the groups had vertical stringing after the fix which is better than what it was before but still sub standard. I think this gun wants to shoot but still has stock bedding problems. Very disappoint that I might have to spend $150 for my gunsmith to bed this $1700 gun!

9. I bought the LAW professional in August. I bought the 28 Nosler. I hate to say it, but it is the most accurate rifle I have now. Consistently shoots under 1MOA at 100 yards. Sorry to hear others having issues.

10. Ron,
    I was genuinely excited to purchase the same LAW rifle you reviewed.You did a great job! I purchased the 6.5 Creedmoor Professional from Sportsman’s Warehouse in Medford, Oregon. When I got home and began to examine the rifle, it was aesthetically very different than the one shown in your video and the one pictured in their catalogue. The bases were not coated tac grey. the bolt knob was nothing like the images shown, and most disappointing, the caliber designation was not filled silver. It was simply coated over. I sent an email to LAW, and many days later got a blow-off response essentially saying that none of these differences affect function, so I should just get over it.
    We all spend our hard earned money in different ways and for different reasons, but I HATE being lied to. I now know that these rifles are not what they were shown to be(images were changed this week), and I also know that I will get no customer service from this company. I know that you have no blame in this, because they changed their rifles after you reviewed the 6.5. I did think you should know however.

    My best,
    Robert Gulden

11. I bought one in 28 nosler. It groups like a shotgun at 100 yards. Legendary arms had me send it back. They’ve had it for a month and a half and won’t respond to emails or phone calls.

12. Ron, Do you plan to follow up with LAW? Are you going to leave your original review out there for everyone to read knowing that LAW is not producing good rifles?

13. Own a Ledgendary .280 AI.
    Shoots 3-4″ groups no matter what.
    Sent the rifle back. Four months later they still have it with little or no word. Horrible customer service.
    These guys won’t be around too long.

14. I also purchased a 280 AI in August 2015. Gun shot horrible groups with factory ammo and reloads. Contacted Legendary and they told me they have had accuracy issues with these guns. Sent it back, they said they reworked it and sent me back with targets that they shot. Out of the 6 groups they shot only 1 target had a 3/4″ group, and that was loaded way down on the FPS scale. The gun still shoots horrible groups and they aren’t offering any resolve on this. I can’t even begin to sight this gun in.

15. Here is what I have found with the Law rifles. I have a 257 WM in The Closer and my boy has one in a 300 Win Mag. When I received my rifle, I proceeded to clean the bore with a very aggressive bore cleaner before I started testing loads. It took me 3.5 hours of scrubbing and brushing the bore before it was copper free. Obviously, these barrels are not broke in buy Law. The first three loads tested were .460” and .550” and right at 1”. I have had this rifle to the range 3 times now and it shoots awesome! But I had to make sure that the bore was copper free, let cool between groups and cleaned frequently. The 300 Win Mag has the same pattern. The first cleaning took 3 hours. A rough spot was found midway down the bore. I had to use JB lapping compound to get rid of it. We tested four different loads and all four were under 1”. The best being right at 1/2”. All groups were 5 shot groups. These rifles will shoot great but they need to be cleaned thoroughly before testing the loads. Both rifles have settled down and do not require frequent cleanings. These rifles are well put together and will shoot great with a little tender loving care.

    • Did the same cleaning process and get 1/3 MOA out of the 26 nosler……kinda thought that was new gun 101

16. Rick,
    Why you would be in a position to do a fluff review for Legendary is anyone’s guess.
    Your assertions and conclusions are implausible at best.
    Many and various of these rifles have serious problems. To assert otherwise flies in the face of reality.
    And, their ” customer service ” is ( still )the worst in my experience.

17. Update on my rifle. I got it back and it shoots great. It took a little while, but they stood by their warranty and I’m a happy customer

18. I think Ronnie is hiding. I would be.

19. I was considering a LAW rifle and was excited when I found out Mark Bansner was involved for I have several of his rifles. However I made contact with Mark in December 2014 advising I wanted my Alpine hunter ceracoated, a new shorty muzzle brake installed and the Swarovski scope mounted. He advised me to send the rifle and scope, Talley mounts to legendary arms and it would be done for 400.00 I sent the rifle, mounts, and scope to them on January 8, 2015 also being advised this would be a 6-8 week job. I have contacted them several times, even talked to Bansner personally on the phone in September 2015. He stated it would be sent in two weeks. I sent another email on April 2, 2016 no response. I just want to make everyone aware of this Bansner problem, they more than lost me as a customer. Oh, they also have my prepayment of 400.00, never again!

20. Update, I received my Bansner Alpine hunter back today from legendary arms and they did an awesome job on the cerecote, muzzle brake and scope mounting. It is unfortunate that it took so long and it was such a problem getting this rifle back however, I am very pleased now. I just wish they had contacted me when the rifle was shipped so I hadn’t felt inclined to send my review yesterday.

21. I just bought a LAW in Remington .260.

    I am a fairly accomplished long range shooter/ reloader. My .260 out of the box shot about 2″ groups @ 100 yards with factory ammo. I consulted a friend who has owned and shot a dozen .260’s over the last decade and picked out a few of his favorite loads as starting points. Components I used were Lapua .260 brass, Berger 140 VLD’s, CCI BR2-2 primers and RL17 powder. I shot ladders across the whole range for that powder.

    No powder charge would shoot under about 1.5″ @ 100 yards.

    I was getting pretty frustrated, and went back to my shop and examined the rifle from tip to tail and noticed one unusual thing. Both the front and rear lugs seemed to be under tightened. I checked them with a torque wrench and would estimate they were both set at about 35psi. The owners manual states that they should be set to no more than 65psi. Using my torque wrench I tightened them both down to 62psi. This caused the rear lug to protrude out of the back of the 704 action .035″, which was just a little too much to allow the bolt to be opened at all!! I fully believe that in assembly someone just tightened it until the bolt would close and called it good!!

    I removed the lug, ground it down till flush, repolished the lug, and re-inserted it torquing down to 62-63 lbs. I reloaded the same loads from earlier that day and went and shot a 1/2 inch 5 shot group.

    So, I want to shoot a few more groups to see if I am “fixed” or not.

    I just thought this might help someone else out there. One of my more “average” shooting buddies was shocked at what was wrong. And that what I did “fixed” things.

    All I can say is it was a very simple and obvious gun smithing oversight that seemed to cause my problem. Perhaps their quality control is lacking, and from reading other comments their customer service is in dire need of help. But in this game, those 2 components are KEY and go hand in hand. I like the rifle but am very disappointed that I had to fix a $1700 gun myself. Time will tell if they can get these kinds of things fixed or not.

22. Sorry to tell you but Law went up the spout

23. Sorry to tell you law went south $$$$$

24. law went south$$$$

25. sorry to tell you but Law went under$$$$$$$$$$$$

26. word has it LAW went up the spout???????

27. Wor has it LAW went out of business

28. I bought a LAW professional in 280AI topped with a VIPER HSLR love the gun but have noticed accuracy issues as well. I called them and they told me that they know about the issues in the earlier guns and that they fixed the issues. I am currently deployed and haven’t really been able to shoot it like I wish. it could be the wind, the new scope dialing it in etc. I will have to let ya know when I get back to what I have found out. hope I got a gem of a gun.

29. I’ll be testing one of these acquired in a trade tomorrow. The machining and build quality is very clearly, good. I cannot help but think that Kimber actually makes the barreled actions to LAW specifications. As an owner of multiple Kimber rifles, at least 10 subtle things strike me as beyond similar. Might be wrong, but I don’t notice that LAW actually identifies how the barrels and actions are sourced, which is unusual I believe. Without question, the action/bolt assembly is exacting and very precisely made, not to mention exceedingly complex, and if these were produced in house, I’d expect to see a plenty of credit being claimed. LAW is silent on that score as far as I have seen. So I doubt they were in house. A bolt action rifle with a new barrel cannot shoot a 5 moa group (or worse) if the components are all fitted tightly together, it’s simply not possible. Only insufficient twist rate or something extremely loose could cause that problem. I wish that someone above had included more insight as to what the believed causes of their inaccuracies were.

30. Ron Spomer wow what a fun. Reminds me of one in the back of my gun safe. My dad opened a bank account and revived a 460 Weatherby mag. My dad was a bear hunter loved it. Years back he had on display in the Woodlands,tx. a big brown bear he took in Alaska years back. On he’s death in 2002 I got a few of his guns the 460 was one of them I only got three guns of my choice a marlin 22 that he shot all the time. A tobacco stained 45 off brand revolver that hekelp on he’s porch table were he set in the day and the 460. I really wanted his Pellet rifles but my brother Todd my client through it. He also got Dads 360 Rem mag his bear gun. A 243 deer rifle and his 357 revolver. I ordered a box of ammo for the 460 back then I believe it cost 178. for 20. A buddy bet me 20 bucks I would not shoot it. And another buddy bet that I would shooting it again. I ended up shooting all but three. Made the money to order another box of ammo but never did. I have let my son have it and the box with three rounds he now has two rounds and it’s in the back of his John Deere safe. Two big for him and a really pretty Woodstock 460 W mag. Love your Articles keep up the good work and be safe.

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