http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WUx6Hk2QsU
Nick posted a DGU story yesterday of a man who was stabbing his wife in the neck outside their child’s San Antonio elementary school when a Texas CHL holder pulled his gun and stopped the attack. The good samaritan has contacted TTAG and here’s his account of what happened:
I am the guy that pulled my KelTec P3AT on the guy yesterday morning. Just to clear up the confusion, I was walking down S. St. Mary’s street IN FRONT OF Bonham Academy. I first thought that the guy was beating someone, and I ran toward him ordering him to stop. He looked at me and ignored me . . .
When I saw the blood and the knife I was about 10 or 15 ft. away from him. I pulled my gun, aimed it at him, and yelled at him again. Again he looked at me and ignored me. When he began stabbing her again I yelled to him as loud as I could. He again turned and looked at me. I told him, “dude do you see what I have aimed at your head?” He immediately dropped the knife and asked me to call 911. All of this happened in the middle of S. St. Mary’s street, not in the school parking lot. I was not charged with anything.
If you look at the :51 point on the attached KSAT 12 video, that’s me in the Bass Pro Shops t-shirt, and my wife standing next to me. I’d like to remain as anonymous as possible for obvious reasons. I’ve told all of the news sources that I do not want to be interviewed, and I don’t want my name released.
My concern is that I want the public to see that an average guy with a CHL can stop a crime as it is being committed, and in this case, no shots were fired. I’m praying that I was able to stop this guy before he did irreparable damage to his ex-wife.
I will tell you that my name is Fred. I am 62 years old, and I’ve had my CHL for about 18 months. This was the first time that I have had to aim the gun at another human being. I was never sure if I could; I now know that I can. I offered last night via email to speak at a CHL class, (for free of course), but the instructor has not answered my email. When this guy goes to trial, my name will probably be public. After the incident I was taken to the SAPD Homicide Unit where I gave a sworn statement and made a positive identification of the suspect.
thank you Sir. Thank you.
Your link to the original DGU story is an administrative word press link.
Sorry. Link fixed.
Im curious for someone that wants to remain anonymous, why would you point yourself out on a video and give a name and age?? Anyways thats a crazy story and this man handled himself very well.
You sir, did the right thing in a world where the right thing is rare.
It is UNPOSSIBLE for this to have happened the way it has been described. According to the anti-rights establishment, you would have shot an innocent person, a police officer and other CHL holders would have mistaken you for the bad guy, and they all would have shot you, then the police officer would have killed the other CHLS, there would be blood running the the streets and the whole community would have looked like the Wild West. UNPOSSIBLE I say.
Or, on the other hand, good job on not shooting 9 innocent people, oh, and stopping a murder in progress.
+1
I’m glad America still has men like you. Thanks.
Good work. I am thankful the guy did not rush you with the knife.
This story really had an ideal ending.
Well done!
That’s because the attacker is a coward!
Brave enough to attack a woman but too scared for his own hide to continue assault once he had his oh sh*t moment.
You did well sir! Glad that it ended the way it did. I’m hoping and praying that the woman will recover from her wounds.
Good job. You handled the situation well, though hesitating to fire is not a good habit when seconds may count. But all ended well this time. Hopefully the victim makes a full recovery thanks to your help
Is this what all your experience in stopping murders in progress has taught you?
Next time drop an F-bomb or two, it helps to get peoples attention. Of course, hopefully there won’t be a next time.
Otherwise, job well done.
You’re a hero Fred, that was a very brave thing to do.
Two Words: Thank You!
We here of the armed intelligentsia review and analyze these types cases quite often. We don’t seem to hear about all the cases where just such the use of a firearm by a law abiding citizen gets into the public eye. In this case, you never fired a shot, were brandishing a weapon on school grounds, and as far as I can tell never even used a bad word!
Yet by using a tool at your disposal stopped someone from probably dieing.
Hopefully the lady will recover quickly. Good job!
Just curious what would have happened if he would have ignored you a 2nd time and continued stabbing his wife?
1. you shoot him and he dies. – Often in “domestic violence” instances the partner being abused wont take any action against the attacker and even goes back to them afterwards. you might have a court case on your head because she didnt feel “in danger of her life”.
2. you shoot to wound him and he stops – Also a good possibility of a court case being brought upon you.
what would you all do in that situation?
The victim’s state of mind does not enter into the equation unless the victim and the shooter are one and the same. The CHL shooter (and any reasonable person) would have believed the victim’s life was in danger. Righteous shoot.
yeah, i think the man would take her multiple stab wounds as evidence of a good shoot.
Outstanding.
Thank you sir, for using our right to carry—- liberals be damned. I really hope you will be interviewed on many TV shows, to educate America why we need our gun rights.
Great Job, & God Bless You!
I think that the young whippersnapper in the Bass Pro T did a great job. He saved a woman’s life, detained a BG and didn’t have to kill anyone in the process. It also confirms all the studies about DGUs. In the vast majority of them, no shots are fired, nobody is killed and no expensive ammo is wasted dispatching some piece of sh!t BG.
Young whippersnapper ha! Luv it!!!
Thank you. I know the victim and her son very well, so I truly thank you for your intervention. My brother has a CHL, and I will most likely get one as well when I am older.
Tom,
How is she doing? Hopefully she’ll be ok. Well, as ok as you can possibly be after someone tries to kill you.
My best wishes for her speedy recovery.
Once again proving that you don’t mess with the old guys.
Great job, sir.
Great job Fred – I applaud your actions that likely saved a life!
Don’t forget that under certain survey/statistical rules, that wasn’t a DGU, because the guy with the gun wasn’t a victim of a crime. No victim = no report = no DGU.
Ok Ludwig, or is it Cook, LOL?
Thank you sir, and good job! You did the right thing.
Even though elementary schools are supposed to be a “safe place”, I know incidents like this are all too common. I’ve seen teachers first-hand having to put themselves between fighting family members, or worst, drunk / drugged up parents about to beat their children with their fists.
Though it’s not the same circumstances, I’m reminded of a tragic story from a few years ago where an elementary school teacher was murdered by her stalker on school grounds. If only she or someone else with a CCW were there to stop it:
http://seadev.bonnint.net/?nid=11&sid=290356&page=2
Good on you sir. Well done.
I have a very serious tactical question. Fred was standing something like 10 feet away from the attacker who was actively stabbing someone and Fred ordered the attacker to stop and drop his knife. Shouldn’t he have shot the attacker immediately until the attacker was down on the ground? Here is my thinking. First, if the attacker stabbed the woman just one more time before complying, that one extra stab could have severed an artery and caused the woman’s death. Second, the man with the knife could have lunged at Fred and fatally stabbed him. This point is critical because even though Fred already had his gun pointed at the attacker and could have easily fired before the attacker closed the distance, the attacker would have still been able to stab Fred for at least 10 seconds or more until there was any chance of losing enough blood to go unconscious. Short of a head or spine shot, Fred was in mortal danger even though he already had his gun out pointing at the attacker.
We have heard many people say that if an attack was serious enough to draw your gun, it was serious enough to shoot. I am thinking that applies here.
Evil prevails when good men do nothing . Not the case here. I am glad a good man did something in this case. Remember uncommon sense, that Fred is not a cop. Assuming he has had little, if any, shoot/no shoot training he did exceedingly well for what was probably the first time in his life, deliberately pointing a loaded firearm at another human. So armchair quaterbacking his decision to call out another warning from the comfort of your computer keyboard is unfair. I am a LEO 18 years for the record.
Well, the closer you get the better your aim. OTOH if he HAD shot the BG with that .380, say once, it’s possible the BG could have closed and fatally attacked before any follow-up shots were made and/or the single wound had any substantial impact on his ability to fight. Obviously the BG was hopped up on either adrenaline or some other drug or possibly in an impaired mental state. Nevertheless it’s hard to argue with good results and good luck. I would like Fred to come back and tell us 1: What was behind the BG and 2: What training/experience he had and 3: What his Plan B might have been.
Well, I hate to be the “Debby downer” in the group and as Kahless pointed out, this could have turned out very badly for Fred. Indeed, the potential negative outcomes far, far outnumber the potential positive outcomes. Let’s start with the fact that this really wasn’t a DGU at all in the sense that the knife-wielding assailant was not threatening Fred and his family.
Next, let’s consider what Fred’s options were if the assailant continued the attack and potential outcomes as Kahless does above. Hitting a moving target that is at least partially obscured by a hostage is not all that easy so Fred could have easily hit the hostage; which equals very bad outcome. He could have missed both the assailant and hostage and hit a “pain in the ass innocent bystander” (in the immortal words of Fat Pete Clemenza) or worse, one of the kids inside or outside the school. Even if he does manage to shoot just the assailant likely civil suits would follow by his family and even potentially the hostage!
What are the positive outcomes for Fred? Since he intervened in a situation where he was not in any danger the only positives apply to the hostage. Fred ends up not shooting the assailant but this is a neutral outcome for Fred as he was never in danger until he decided to intervene that is.
I know that I’ll catch a lot of flak for this but Fred should not have deployed his firearm in my very humble view. Fred, and CCW holders in general, are not auxiliary police officers and shouldn’t act like public safety constables.
Those who advocate for CCW holders to intervene in situations where they are not in full command of the facts and where they are in no danger do a huge disservice to the gun owning public. Those of us who have taken on the responsibility to carry a personal defense gun do so in order to protect ourselves and loved ones; not the general pubic.
Wait, let me get on my flak jacket; okay, have at it fellow armed citizens!!
bllleeeccchhhhh, sorry, I just hurled on you!
Doesn’t defense of a third party = DGU?
I respectfully disagree. I take responsibility for myself, my loved ones, and those around me.
“Either you are responsible for the people around you, or you are irresponsible.”
Paul, if you truly were humble you wouldn’t be judging another mans actions. And what kind of person wouldn’t come to someone else’s aid when their life was in jeopardy. This lady’s kid may have lost his mother that day if it wasn’t for fred. If it was your wife in that situation and fred didnt help her and you knew a CHL was there i think you’d be pretty pissed he didn’t intervene. Bad form on questioning this mans actions.
First, Fred would you consider contacting me at 830-459-9217. I would like to visit with you as I am a CHL Instructor and would like to ask a few questions.
Paul r, the fact that Fred was not in danger as you have stated does not remove the justification under Texas law for him to use deadly force. I will agree with you that many things can go wrong in these situations but the negatives far outweigh anything else in this case. If he had done nothing the lady would have died. How would Fred live live with himself if he had stood idly by and let that happen. Sometimes you just have to do what is right. I do not agree with you that it was not a DGU, how much more of a DGU does it get? The fact it was not him or a family member is not relevant in any way. A human beings life was in danger that is a DGU by all measures. Lastly you mention civil suits. In Texas civil litigation is barred if deadly force is justified so it is much more likely that nothing would have happended on this front.
Now the hard part. This is a situation that all have to choose for themselves. No one can say what is right or wrong on this one. It is a moral call that a person has to live with no matter how it comes out but rest assured that you better think about it before you get into one of these because waiting until it is happening is jus poor planning.
I would generally avoid intervening in a less lethal assault for the reasons mentioned, PLUS that I would be adding a firearm to a violent encounter even if I did not draw. The average citizen has the same wherewithall to acquire a gun and permit as I did. OTOH when you see someone repeatedly stabbing someone else, with blood spurting out, you can be reasonably sure that it is not a lover’s spat or impromptu performance art.
Fred! You done good. Alternatively, once you’ve made the decision to act, ACT. I hope if I were ever in that exact same situation I would make sure my down range was safe, and if so, then send lead into the BG’s ear. Best way there is, to instantly stop the attack. Giving a verbal warning, i.e. appearing indecisive, is an open invitation to be ignored or attacked.
Yeah but in places like CA, if you had a carry permit (and even considering those crazy circumstances of a possible murder in process), sending lead downrange in that situation could also likely have you end up in prison. Ridiculous as it is, murderous criminals like this have far too many rights in some places…
Please note that I completely agree with the actions Fred took in this situation. Not sure I could live with the knowledge that I stood by and let someone die. Takes courage to step in when you know it can go bad for you. Kudos to Mr. Fred!!
Good job Fred. I’m not going to get all keyboard cowboy critical about your actions. You were there. You were the one having to look the guy in the eye.
I also had to point my gun at a man several years ago. I also chose not to fire, (unless he took one more step toward me). He ended up leaving. After it was over I ended up being extremely pissed off at him for making me come that close to killing him. I found out later that he was an extremely violent guy with a long history of beating up women. The only thing that bothers me now is that he only got a slap on the wrist and he’ll end up doing the same to some other woman again. I could have prevented that perhaps. I don’t think I’d lose a lot of sleep dusting a guy that bad.
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