California State Route 91

“When the FBI went to speak with a man accused of buying the assault rifles used by his friend in the San Bernardino terror attack, they learned about a sinister plot the two men had crafted years earlier,” usnews.com reports. “In interviews over 11 days, Enrique Marquez Jr. willingly told agents how he and Farook had planned to slaughter students at a community college they attended and massacre motorists on a gridlocked freeway, according to court documents.” Specifically . . .

Riverside City College and California State Route 91.

Why the San Bernardino terrorist chose instead to slaughter one of the shooter’s work colleagues is unknown. It may never be known. But what we do know is that the revelation indicates that terrorists are targeting any large group of people in a confined space. And that many confined spaces – classrooms, football stadia, concerts, movie theaters – are so-called “gun free” zones. Anyone else see the problem with that?

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50 COMMENTS

  1. The place he worked had to be because he got pissed off at someone. The location didn’t seem planned at all. Why not bring all the bombs? Why not have a better plan to attack a secondary target, etc?

    • Except that a work place shooter would not have been able to convince his spouse to participate in such a massacre.

      Just accept that it was because they were both devout muslims. In our present time, except for communism, and all of it’s iterations, Islam is about the only major belief system where as you become more devout, you become more violent.

      • “Would not convince his spouse”
        I think you may be forgetting this guy & wife were devout Muslims. There is no ‘convincing’ required when the wife is wholly owned, and the husband has decided to do something. She may or may not have been the mastermind, but he would have had override authority on all decisions. Sounds stupid, but it’s a core tenant of this ideology, and it may have saved a lot of lives (kind of like how the fuhrer was always obeyed, even when his strategic decisions were moronic)

    • Why were they still within 2 miles 4 hours later? I figured they were going to show up killing more people the next day, 500-100 miles away. Instead, they what? Parked somewhere and told war stories for 3 1/2 hours? Yeah, they were crazy and muslim-stupid, but that does not seem right.

      • Exactly. I think they still had aspirations similar to their original plan stated in the article above. I was talking to a buddy of mine about a possible larger abandoned plot after it came out that their apartment was an “IED factory”. A day or two later I read this story:

        http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/09/was-local-high-school-target-san-bernardino-terrorists.html

        I kind of think for as bad as this was, they were still planning a lot worse. Somehow, he got pissed (at someone?), went home, told his wife it was go time and did this instead.

      • Like most dreamed of actions, the reality can be quite different. This couple may have had some hint of humanity, of the ability to feel empathy, even for an infidel, that caused them to feel the horror of what they had done.

        At least there is a faint hope that there was some humanity left for them to feel something for the terror, blood, agony and death they had created, other than joy at the inflicting of suffering upon those that Islam teaches as being damned.

        • Or…. they were excited by what had just happened and knew their end was coming soon, so they pulled over somewhere for a last joy bang quickie. Or maybe they were just peckish and pulled over to eat a falafel.

      • I suspect they were high on adrenaline and either vomiting or having sex for a few hours after the excitement, working to upload their GoPro video (ban GoPro’s!) to the internet, but failing (how frustrating must that have been? It’s probably what kept them in one spot), and by the time they’d destroyed their hard drives/etc., the police dragnet had gotten so thick they could not escape undetected. I suspect, like all these types of things, they found the police response broader and wider-ranging than they’d expected, and possibly faster. They probably knew it was only a matter of time until they were found at home, so they decided to go out the traditional Californian way; guns-blazing on a high speed pursuit.

    • Even before the police caught and killed them, I read that the husband left the party after an argument. That could have been the trigger. Tough as it was on the people they killed and wounded, it may have disrupted plans that would have resulted in even more casualties.

  2. That’s a situation that nightmares are made of. Sitting in traffic and someone starts shooting at you and being in California, you’re already neutered and can do nothing to protect yourself and others except by running, unless your really rich or a cop.

    • Just a few years back, something like forty Aussies died of smoke/fire when a wildfire blew over a line of stopped cars on the interstate. Stuck motorists truly are sitting ducks for something like this, and often have poorer escape routes than if they were even boxed into a movie theatre (bridges, guardrails limiting escape routes, and soundproofing is so good in cars & drivers so clueless that many would not even react until bullets were coming through the window). There’s a lot more defensive guns & cover available to defenders than anyone knows, though, and this fact may have played into their ultimate decision for a soft target.

  3. “..and massacre motorists on a gridlocked freeway…”

    William Forstchen (author of ‘One Second After’) wrote about that *exact* scenario in his book ‘Day of Wrath’.

    Islamic murderers attack an elementary school, cause gridlock on an interstate and then slaughter people in their cars.

    It is *not* a nice read. It will horrify you. Read it anyway…

    “I did not want to write this [book], but, as I expressed to friends, I feared that if I did not write it, and this nightmare happened, which it really can, I would be responsible in some way for remaining silent. If you read on from here, it will not be an enjoyable experience.”

    ~ William Forstchen in the “Day of Wrath” introduction.

    http://www.amazon.com/Day-Wrath-William-R-Forstchen-ebook/dp/B00MU1NNRO

    • Read it, it was eye-opening. If done rapidly, there is almost no effective response.

      Recommended, for folks who want to expand their horizons on this subject.

      • No effective response? How about I plug the guy with my .45? Doesn’t that kill the accomplice, too?

        • Scott, it appears to depend on where you live in California. In LA, San Diego and San Francisco, you are SOL. I have read that San Bernardino County is gun friendly. Remember that Sara Tipton had a permit and carried legally while she lived in California.

        • Read the book, Larry.

          It’s about how the attacks are organized and conducted. Even if you’re armed and of the proper mindset, if your first hint of trouble is the sound of a bullet being fired at your vehicle from a passing car, you just don’t have time to do anything about it.

          Equate it to driving your car on a two-lane highway. If the next oncoming vehicle suddenly leaves their lane and crosses into yours less than 100 feet ahead, there’s not much you can do about it; you simply don’t have enough time. It doesn’t matter how good your reflexes are, and that’s before you consider how impossibly difficult it is to live your life in condition Orange/Red for more than a hour or so.

      • I’ve had this scenario on my mind for years. I am actually surprised it hasn’t happened, except that one time in VA. When ever I travel, it is never unarmed…better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

    • There’s another book called “Day of Wrath” written in 1998 by Larry Bond (co-wrote Red Storm Rising with Tom Clancy). Also worth a read.

      http://www.amazon.com/Wrath-Bond-Larry-June-Hardcover/dp/B014GG74LG/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1450561403&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=day+of+wrath+larry+bond

      Edit: Actually the book I was thinking of (in the same series) that dealt with Islamic terror was a book called Enemy Within, which was written in 1996.

      http://www.amazon.com/Enemy-Within-Larry-Bond/dp/0446516767/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

    • Read it. Short but to the point.

      Read also about Beslan, because it seems we have forgotten, as its never mentioned nor included in the typical summary of mass-shootings in schools. Supposed to be the scenario that keeps fusion center CT staff awake at night.

      I read the shooter had pictures of area schools in his cell phone. There are two or three within blocks of the regional government center, and many more within a 15 minute ride. If its likely that this was an impulsive act- linked to some perceived slight, from the evangelical Jew that he’d argued with earlier, and/or the Christmas party theme of the county gathering, then I wonder if that last minute change of plan, might have thrown off any other plans.

      Or it might be their plans for a secondary target were still too ill-formed, and/or they lost their focus, driving around, thinking they could wing it, and got caught up faster than they thought, thinking their rental SUV would throw off a quicker ID, and getting spooked when they saw the presence of cops near their home so quickly. Lets face it- these were severely mentally ill individuals, as to believe in 72 raisins as just reward for killing innocents is proof enough.

    • You nailed it Geofrey PR. I Thought I had thought through several terrorism scenarios and had an idea of how it might go down. Then I read William Forstchen’s “Day of Wrath.” My ideas were valid but Forstchen figured it out – why not do them all at once? The day of wrath is coming and we better be prepared. Thanks Dr. Geoff P.R.!

    • Some of these places are (nearly) gun-free zones by their very nature.

      As we were discussing above, when stuck in traffic. If you are going to or from work, and you can’t carry there, you probably don’t have a gun in the vehicle, either. Even if you do, could you access it quickly enough to effectively return fire against another vehicle full of armed assailants moving past your car in the opposite direction, when you are stuck in traffic and they can move at-will?

      How about the beach? Many folks who carry regularly, don’t carry when they go to the beach, as there is no effective way to conceal a full-size pistol, even a small pistol would get wet/sandy if you carried it and went into the water, and no one wants to leave a gun sitting around in their cooler/backpack/purse, as those are already high-risk theft items and there are kids running around, too. Pretty much the same thing at the gym/athletic club; once you are changed and exercising, your gun (if you even brought one) is probably in your locker.

  6. “In interviews over 11 days, Enrique Marquez Jr. willingly told agents how he and Farook had planned to …”

    What kind of “interview” lasts 11 days? Something tells me that Mr. Marquez “willingly” told his interrogators interviewers whatever they wanted to hear.

    • The second anything gets labeled terrorism they get to use all sorts of “enhanced interrogation techniques”.

      I’m not defending what happened but something occurred over those 11 days (!!) that seemed to have changed what he is saying. You don’t start bragging only after 11 days…

  7. A gridlock massacre seems like less of an issue than people are thinking. Yes, you are vulnerable in your car, but with everyone sitting still it seems like only the first victim or few will be caught totally off guard. When you decide to get out of your car you’ll have all kinds of cover, concealment, and hopefully reinforcements getting out of their cars. Being at ground zero isn’t going to be pleasant no matter what but I think the gridlock attack is probably going to be one of the less effective attacks.

    • Massively congested pile of shit, and (at least when I lived there) they NEVER talked about it on radio traffic reports unless a truck was on fire, because it didn’t go to or from “downtown LA” or the Valley. It was therefore invisible to the Big People.

  9. AND-we’ll never know anything. Just internet speculation. I’m glad they got ’em when they got ’em…Yeah me and the missus wondered what the hell was going on for 5 hours the day of…or WHY 200 people were trampling in the lovely couple’s domicile a few DAZE later. Kinda’ makes one speculate on a conspiracy…

  10. The workplace was a premature. It “went off” earlier than planned due to a temper tantrum.
    One thing of high pedantry: “gridlocked” means something… but a limited-access highway can’t be gridlocked by definition. Gridlocking happens on grids.
    I hate myself when I’m like that. But it’s like listening to “clips”. If it’s not your Garand or 1917, it isn’t a clip.

  11. When I read about the things these hoodlums planned I am amazed. The methods are inexpert, the training is nonexistenant, the equipment is substandard, and the goals are stupid. What possible purpose would be accomplished by killing people at random? Ahhh! “Terrorism!” What we’re dealing with here is a bunch of third world retards. Daeshbags! SMH

  13. I wrote on here several weeks back, before the San Bernardino attack, that my wife had recently been spooked by the sight of a group of muslim men just sitting beside the freeway here and watching. No bus stop nearby. No businesses along that stretch of freeway. No reason whatsoever even to be there, let alone seeming to watch and study the passing traffic so intently.

    She thought it looked like they were casing the location for a possible future attack. It seemed plausible at the time, even more so now. We’re carrying extra firepower and ammo in our vehicles now, just in case we get stuck in some kind of freeway attack.

    • Jonathan – Houston,

      As Defens says below, I would carry a carbine or rifle in your vehicle. Trying to engage attackers at 100 yards with your handgun is less than sub-optimal.

      I am considering purchasing a lever-action carbine in .44 Magnum to keep in the car. It is next to impossible to fail. It allows me to get off multiple shots fairly quickly. The iron sights and long sight radius give me a decent ability to hit human attacker sized targets at 100 to 150 yards. I can reload on the fly without taking my carbine out of service. And .44 Magnum is devastating coming out of a rifle … depending on barrel length and ammunition choice you can get upwards of 2,000 fps at the muzzle. (I have chronographed 180 grain bullets at 2,200 fps out of a 22 inch barrel!) Plus, a lever-action rifle in .44 Magnum is light, easy to handle/maneuver in tight spaces, and recoil (in a 5+ pound carbine/rifle) is minimal.

  14. Two must have items in every vehicle: carbine or rifle and a set of bolt cutters to cut through the cyclone right of way fences. Might not always have the immediate opportunity to use either, but I’d rather have the option of exiting a gridlocked freeway, than sit there for hours, as in the Katrina exodus.

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