It had been reported that police were having difficulty tracing the .45 caliber handgun that the Santa Clarita school shooter used to open fire in Saugus High School last week. Now we know why.
The .45 pistol — reported to be a 1911 by the Los Angeles Times — was reportedly cobbled together from parts, including an unserialized frame. That’s what California gun controllers — pretty much everyone in state government — have colorfully dubbed a “ghost gun.”
Investigators are trying to determine who built the gun and how the shooter got it. It’s still legal for individuals to build their own firearms in California, but they are now required to serialize them.
By Stefanie Dazio, Associated Press
The teenager who shot five classmates, killing two, at a Southern California high school used an unregistered “ghost gun,” Los Angeles County Sheriff Alex Villanueva said Thursday.
Villanueva told media outlets Thursday that 16-year-old Nathaniel Tennosuke Berhow’s .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol was assembled from gun parts and did not have a serial number.
Berhow pulled the gun from his backpack on Nov. 14— his birthday — in an open-air quad at Saugus High School in the Los Angeles suburb of Santa Clarita and in 16 seconds shot five students at random. At one point, the gun jammed but he quickly cleared it and continued shooting.
Berhow counted his rounds, Villanueva has said, saving the last bullet for himself.
Sheriff’s Lt. Brandon Dean of the homicide bureau said in a statement that authorities do not know who assembled the pistol or bought its components.
The sheriff said Berhow’s motive remains a mystery, even after investigators searched his home and interviewed 45 people. Berhow’s mother — who packed him corndogs, grapes and homemade cookies for lunch that morning — had no idea what was coming, Villanueva said.
Authorities said Berhow had shown no signs of violence and didn’t appear to be linked to any ideology or terrorist group.
The sheriff’s department is working with federal authorities to unlock Berhow’s cellphone, Villanueva said.
Berhow’s father was an avid hunter who died two years ago. He had six registered guns in the family’s home but they were seized in 2016.
Officials found several unregistered firearms in the home after the shooting and are working to determine where those and the weapon used at the high school came from.
Authorities have identified the dead as 15-year-old Gracie Anne Muehlberger and 14-year-old Dominic Blackwell.
Serial numbers are magic talismans that prevent misuse and facilitate location tracking.
“…serial numbers are *permanent* magic runes that can never be altered or removed, thereby enabling accurate tracking by our benevolent Overlords…”
and
“Such runes have always accompanied guns since the beginning of gun-dom. They are a common sense necessity to the proper function of a gun.”
FIFY
/sarc
Did “investigators searched his home and interviewed 45 people.”?
Or did they interview .45 people?
Let the conspiracies rein!
Oooh… “ghost guns!”
Maybe they should ban criminal use of those deadly implements of mayhem to cut down on the carnage. Of course the media and their Democrat handlers would be at the forefront – at the forefront, I tell you! Of efforts to make this illegal act, illegal-er! It’s for the kids, you know.
They need to haul in Casper and interrogate him. Sounds like it was he that built the ghost gun!
Wait, why were the father’s guns seized? Seems like an important part that was completely glossed over
Hell, last time I heard collective guilt was considered a war-crime. But sadly when it comes to guns in the US that rule goes right out the window, and it’s been that way for years. When I was a teenager in the 90s some a-hole started a rumor that I was planning to set a bomb at my school. This was about a month after Columbine attack and so tensions everywhere were high. The police raided my family house and the local PD even tried to get permission to search the homes of everyone in my extended family. They even went so far as to try to get a broad order to seize any firearms found. The DA actually filed the orders, but they were immanently shut down when our lawyer heard of it. And this was in rural North Carolina, not some urban blue state district.
Not sure how California’s registry laws handle it but for NY any registered assault weapons (the few that anyone bothered to register) are state property after the death of the owner and are to be turned in by the decendants. Will be interesting to see how that works out. For the pistol registry those can be transferred to heirs with a permit and a few (more expensive) other options exist if no one has a permit at the time.
Or, if the firearm has no serial number, and therefore cannot conceivably be registered to anyone, just hide it and tell “authorities” to pound sand.
To be fair a lot of registered guns go missing in NY, must be all the lakes.
It was in the middle of a divorce battle, you do the math.
Sippenhaftung has always been popular with those of the national socialist political persuasion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sippenhaft
Exactly! !
I read; Berhow’s father was an avid hunter who died two years ago. He had six registered guns in the family’s home but they were seized in 2016.
And thought WTH.. then i had a moment to think about it.. one word on WHY. . California! !
If all his fathers registered firearms had been seized, it makes sense that no one was in a big hurry to serialize and register everything else.
I can’t help but feel his mother really should have been more responsible for these things. Especially given what had already happened.
The mother may not have known anything about the guns in her home. I myself have attempted to include my wife in my gun activities, but she has made it clear that she isn’t interested and leaves me to myself. So while I’m open and honest to answer any questions she might have, the end result is that she has no clue how many guns belong to us or how much ammo I have squirreled away. That being said, I’ve had to take steps to ensure they’re properly acquired by extended family if anything unexpected happens to me.
The only guns my wife is interested in are my black powder firearms. She knows about a 9 mm pistol, but she does not know–and it is better that she does not know–about all of the others I have acquired or built over the years. Being terrified by the stories of mass shootings, he would absolutely freak if she knew about the two ARs that I built a piece at a time out of my allowance (fun money account).
It makes sense. It wouldn’t surprise me if he had a few hidden they missed and the kid knew where they were. He also knew to keep his mouth shut until he wanted them. You’d need a pretty on top of it teenager to make a 1911 frame even with jigs. There’s also a decent chance mom knew there was something there and didn’t say squat. Regardless she’ll probably get sent up the river for the kid knowing California. Depending on what circumstances come out she could be negligent however.
“She would absolutely freak if she knew about the two ARs that I built a piece at a time out of my allowance (fun money account).”
I don’t get this. Why stay married to someone who would “freak” over something that is important to you. There’s plenty of ladies out there who would help you pick the parts on your next build (I’m married to one). Don’t settle brother.
@Tsay,
A happy relationship with a good woman isn’t soured simply because she isn’t as into guns as you are. There are many other things couples can enjoy together. And for all a man knows, his wife may someday turn a corner and become interested.
I certainly didn’t “settle” with the lady who’s been my best friend for life.
Ditto! Best thing in my life is when she said “Yes” followed two years later by “I Do”….that was almost 44 years ago. As far as firearms are concerned, she commandeered my Detective Special in 1977…it remains her fave to this day.
Don’t forget to include me in your will Uncle Haz…especially if you have any classic S&W / Colt revolvers.
It’s amazing how the mother appears to have been given a complete pass in this. Your 15-year-old was apparently manufacturing and stockpiling guns in your house, where were you!?
I am surprised he would have put together a 1911. Odd choice.
I would think it might have been easier to grind off the SN off a stolen gun. It isn’t like we are in short supply on the black market.
If he wanted to build a gun it would be easier to do a polymer based gun.
The copyright has expired on the 1911 design. The parts are made all over the world now. So it’s very easy to get the parts from just about any source.
If you purchased each part from each of the 50 states or of a different country. You could get all the parts you needed.
Of course it would take time for the mail to deliver everything to you. Months? Weeks?Perhaps as a person who can’t get a gun legally, can afford wait to put one all together?
Some Human Beings are innovative and patient. The goal they are working toward takes them a little more time than for other people.
It’s amazing what you can accomplish through the mail. – Andy Dufresne
True but the specs aren’t identical and the 1911 design has a fairly low tolerance for misaligned parts. Sure you can buy all the individual components but it will almost certainly require some modification and at least basic gunsmithing to assemble them into a functional weapon. Unlike an AR-15, building a 1911 from parts isn’t like Legos….
It did jam once in 8 shots, which is perfectly in-line with regular 1911s.
If you want a 1911 for shooting competition then every part must fit perfectly. If you want a close in self defense 1911 then not so much. I have two WW2 1911’s they are armory guns . Several companies made 1911’s for WW2 and these guns had parts from at least 4 of them. The slide and frame don’t align on either gun, but after a change of springs, they both function well.
I thought the same thing. With all the Glock 80 percent options out there, I would think that would be the easiest. Not only that, but higher capacity also. I have no experience of my own, but it is my understanding that assembling a 1911 from scratch takes a lot of hand fitting and requires a ton of man hours. Seems like a skillset a teenager wouldn’t have, along with the proper tools. My guess is that he either had help from someone older or maybe the gun was stolen.
Stolen or black market, yes to all of the above.
Watch California now try to push a bill nation wide that requires all gun parts be shipped only to FFL dealers and that buyers can only receive them after passing a background check, 4473, and registering them to the state and federal government. Don’t forget the “limit 1 part a month” BS.
From the TTAG article: “Investigators are trying to determine who built the gun and how the shooter got it.”
That means the investigators don’t know who made the gun, or where the shooter got it.
No where does it say the shooter made the gun.
A backpack full of gasoline in plastic container and a flare would scare me.
Timothy Toroian,
One gallon of gasoline, one flare, a few feet of chain, and a couple quick-links are all it takes to effect a massacre.
One half gallon of bleach, one half gallon of ammonia, a few feet of chain, and a couple quick links are all it takes to effect a massacre.
One package of rat poison and access to the school lunch room is all it takes to effect a massacre.
One sturdy pickup truck and a crowd of students pouring out of a school exit (pinch point) is all it takes to effect a massacre.
Shall I continue?
There are countless ways (least of which involves firearms) for a deranged, evil person to effect a massacre. We should focus on protecting ourselves from deranged, evil people rather than vain attempts to prevent access to the countless methods that they could employ to harm us.
The problem is the worship of weapons by the gun culture, we see it in the games and the movies. Few movies glorify the use of rat poison for mass murder, and while there’s been a few that used fire bombs as a plot device, the vast majority of murder and mayhem on the silver screen is perpetrated by firearms.
When you couple that with the gun glorification and weapon worship by the POTG, it’s a recipe for prohibition. When POTG reveal themselves to be often racist or misogynistic, it just helps justify even more draconian repressive measures.
You must be one of the racist white Liberals I grew up around. People of color make wonderful guns.
“Hand Made Colt 1911 Pistols Ghost Gun” video 8 minutes long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq1TXEE_QK4
Remember folks, if you’re a racist or enjoy being a guy, your constitutionally protected rights should be taken away.
Strange indeed to accuse the shooting public and specifically blame “the gun culture” for firearms-using violent events. The so-called gun culture is about supporters of the 2nd amendment and the understandings which support it. The right should, of course, be backed up by ownership and training.
In my experience it is Hollywood which so often portrays all sorts of guns as magic talismans, while Hollywood’s actors and directors are generally anti-2nd-amendmment, anti-gun-culture.
The ordinary person simply seeking a means of protection seems to buy a gun reputed as reliable. He/she doesn’t worship the gun, but rather practices.
C’mon, guys, miner is a troll.
I have a sneaky suspicion that this will spur the Dems into action against deadly deadly firearm parts.
IIRC, there was just some useless law passed in CA regarding gun parts. Oh so helpful.
Not helpful because it doesn’t even take effect until 2025.
Your argument is invalid. All your pork n beans are belong to us.
-but the law did pass, amirite?
If we pass a law that sharply curtails your right to travel, would you be silent now even if it won’t take effect for five years?
Silent, certainly not. The lawsuits for all our gun control laws are filed and progressing along through the courts. It’s just that July 2025 is a long ways off, and the law might be successfully vacated by then. At least, that’s the hope.
In the meantime, people – including some here at TTAG – have been incorrectly reporting that the law takes effective in 2020.
How convenient that he used a “ghost gun.” Now we will receive a flood of ghost gun ban bills.
I call bullshit. I have no proof but I believe they’re making it up in order to pass even more gun controls since they’ve basically run out of things to ban.
I agree with Cloud, it’s bullshit…. they’ve run out of anything else to f with or criminalize – except of course for clamping down on existing laws, illegals, career criminals, drug dealers, people who shit in front of the City Offices, down water drains and on the Hollywood walk of Stars.
Yes, it sounds unreasonable to build a 7 shot .45 for a murder when 9mm parts are much easier, cheaper, and greater ammo capacity up to 19 or more. Something makes no sense.
If it was a 1911 80% frame and kit, then the father could have built it as a garage hobby to keep in touch with his former “gun life”. How many of us would hate being involuntarily separated from all our guns, reloading, hunting, training, etc.? Polymer 80 Glocks are fun and easy, yes, but VERY easy. A 1911 would be more challenging and thus more rewarding. I would have chosen the 1911 if I had the proper tools.
It’s also possible the the father built it with his son’s knowledge as a bonding experience, thinking he could pass it down to his son upon his 21st birthday. We’ll never know, since they’re both dead now.
“ I have no proof but … “
Baseless speculation is not a good foundation for commenting. A prudent person might want to wait until more facts are in before drawing a conclusion or speculating on methods.
But there aren’t really that many prudent person’s on this forum.
Translation: but there aren’t really that many people on this forum who operate on emotion, fantasy, and whimsical notions of virtue and who will readily compromise their principles and reality to be part of the crowd.
Get bent
How generous of you to take the time to set us straight and show us how it’s done.
“But there aren’t really that many prudent person’s on this forum.”
Judging by your writing style and regular grammatical errors, I’m not even sure you’re old enough to know what YOU are talking about. But keep playing, even a broken clock is correct twice a day.
Here’s a fact: When there’s political hay to be made or personal power at stake (and there always is), government can’t be trusted.
They’re probably not lying about this being a “ghost gun.” Probably. No way to know for sure.
Miner49er says: “Baseless speculation is not a good foundation for commenting. “
Yet, this is exactly what you do, consistently.
That just so happened to occur on the same day that Bank Records confirm Burisma-Biden payments to Morgan Stanley account. Which just so happened to “coincide” on the same day that Adam Schiff’s best buddy and higher up in both UCLA and NBC, Bruce Hensel, was arrested on pedo charges against a 9 year old girl by the LAPD.
Fun Fact: an anon edited the Wikipedia article with the information that Hensel is a pedo and an associate of Adam Schiff. Then someone with IP 204.102.252.34 immediately edited it out. That IP address is linked to UCLA Office of the Chancellor.
Would you please provide the source for this information? Perhaps a web citation or the name of the individuals reporting this information and where they acquired it would be nice, thank you!
About Wikipedia, I dunno. For the rest of it, just do a news search for Hensel and Schiff; they’ll turn up.
So no credible source to cite?
OK, boomer.
Yeah… because The Communist News Network is totally going to be all over Demopedos and their perversions.
The DNC is so inclusive these days…
They accept genocidal commies, child murderers, self-mutilating nutjobs, Feminazis, AND pedos. Don’t you just love it when all the despicable vermin line up under one banner?
The shooter’s
“father was an avid hunter who died two years ago. He had six registered guns in the family’s home but they were seized in 2016.“
What was the reason given for the taking of these firearms?
Maybe they were registered “Assault Weapons” (pre-2000 I think) that by CA law can not be passed down to relatives, I don’t know if they can be sold out of state though.
Last time I checked, Texas didn’t give a whit about CA’s stupid laws. So, of COURSE you could sell CA guns in TX, whether CA likes it or not.
It was in the middle of his divorce. Wifey probably retaliated and got a red flag order.
Weird. Home-built 1911s are pretty rare, all considered. Those that start from an 80% frame even moreso.
I have to wonder about the veracity of the reporting. It would make more sense to me if it were simply unregistered with CA.
I don’t buy it. Smells like the left are trying to criminalize gun parts since all their other glorious gun controls have failed.
Logical next step in control long game. We have had a few ideas related to 80%s thrown around our legislature and I will be amazed if this isn’t used to push them. After all our AG already sent letters to most online companies selling 80%s to stop shipping to NY
Point of clarification:
WTF would “tracing” the gun in this case help anything?
Nothing of course.
But that’s beside the point, no?
Tracing a gun will lead to others who were illegally doing gun stuff, and illegally sold illegal gun stuff to people who were, or will, do illegal gun stuff with their illegal gun stuff.
Plenty of Californians build handguns from 80% kits and they are not doing anything illegal.
“Plenty of Californians build handguns from 80% kits and they are not doing anything illegal.”
Rather suspect that tracing a gun would not lead to one of those people.
WHAT is to be gained by tracing a gun used in a crime AFTER the crime has been committed?
“WHAT is to be gained by tracing a gun used in a crime AFTER the crime has been committed?”
To discover who else might be involved in, or facilitated the crime?
Really. And just how would that happen, with a non-serialized gun, which of course is unregistered? I mean, really! How?
Registration can accomplish exactly one thing, which is to enable confiscation. To argue, show how it could accomplish anything else. And, please show us where CA’s expensive schemes have EVER contributed to the apprehension of a previously unknown criminal.
You don’t think tracing this firearm is important?
So there’s no interest in understanding how an under age person was able to access a lethal weapon? No interest in understanding the situation or how this tragedy came about?
Fascinating.
to miner49er
Your total faith as an atheist in government only having guns, is Fascinating.
. ” ‘I Was Complacent’: San Luis Obispo Police Chief Apologizes After Losing Gun In Restroom”
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2019/07/11/san-luis-obispo-police-chief-gun-stolen-left-in-restroom/
I wonder how many of the cops guns were Ghost Guns?
. “Ex-Pasadena Police Lieutenant Gets Prison For Selling Over 100 Off-Roster Guns”
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/02/26/ex-pasadena-police-lieutenant-vasken-gourdikian-prison-selling-guns/
Chris, please remind me when I have ever posted that only the police and government should have firearms.
Interesting story about an LEO mishandling firearms, but they are all too common. Right here in West Virginia, we had a deputy sheriff who laid his pistol on the roof of his unit while packing up to leave the shooting range. Unfortunately, he didn’t retrieve the pistol from the roof of the car when he got in and drove away. A gentleman brought it into a pawnshop, hoping to pawn it for some money but instead, he had a discussion with the local police officers.
And police and government don’t have a monopoly on mishandling weapons, many citizens who fancies themselves experts often lose their gun, or engage in silly horseplay that results in bloodshed or, suffer accidental and/or negligent discharges that sometimes kill other folks.
There are a thousand ways an underage person can access a firearm, it is simply not POSSIBLE to address them all, so the feeble attempts by CA are a poor joke.
You see a tragedy, I see an average Friday night in “gun free” Chiraq. Grow some balls commie, you’re never going to overthrow the bourgeoisie if you consider some nutjob wasting a pair of proto-commies a “tragedy”.
You certainly supported the Obama administration handing out “free” select fire rifles, Machine guns, MRAPS and grenade launchers to only government police departments all over the country.
The only “free stuff” the democrats want to hand out to the public are condoms, “free” crystal meth to shoot up to improve your sexual experience. And government $$$ welfare.
1) The pistol was Improperly secured by an Adult.
2) if its a 80 lower with no number, was it Stolen.. hence find the owner, and a possible reason why tge shooting took place or How.
3) under California Communist laws the unserialized Weapon is Illegal. So you build an 80 lower with no number, then you have to have it numbered under California, so they want to find there criminal who would try such a thing.
One question, and one point:
a) Why were the family’s guns seized in 2016?
b) By the time I was 16 years old, I was capable of disassembling and reassembling several firearms – – to include 1911’s
[W3]
Yeah I don’t buy that explanation. ‘Splaning why the dead dad had his guns stol er seized would go a long way in making sense of this teen criminal. Commiefornia is soooo effed😖
Obscure musical reference of the day;
‘…saving the last bullet for himself.’ – obviously a fan of the 90s grunge band Paw.
Hey Papa, “Dairy Queen sounds good to me”…
Beat up piece of Chevrolet
Blue and white, rusted away.
Ha! Knew there had to be another one of us out there.
Did a bit of digging, and found this info on the father and 2016 seizure of his firearms.
(from NBC Los Angeles)
“According to court records, the 16-year-old’s mother and father took a dispute to court in 2016 over who should have custody of the teen.
That case was resolved in August 2016.
Around the same time, several law enforcement sources have told NBC4 that deputies from the Santa Clarita Sheriff’s station detained the teenager’s father on an involuntary hold for a mental health evaluation.
As a result of that, deputies seized a number of firearms from the home. Those guns were eventually destroyed by the county.
After that event, sources say the father would have been considered a prohibited purchaser, or someone who could not legally purchase a gun in California.”
So, it might be that after the father got his guns seized, he went and got ones off the black market, built them himself or only gave up some of them. Then, after the father dies, these were left.
Um, 80% frames and build kits are not “black market”. Not even close.
Thanks for playing, tho.
Um, commas have meaning. you should check them out sometime.
Sounds to me like she red flagged him as part of the custody fight. No evidence of any real reason to seize his guns.
There was reports of domestic violence and he was an alcoholic. He had other problems too.
An easy way to get your guns taken from you is to beat your wife while drunk and have guns around while you do that. Great way to raise your son. There is no way he would grow up to be a school shooter with such an upbringing. He would never go after the kids with a nice happy family and shoot them dead before he kills himself.
Usually black kids with such a situation become gangsters and shoot people in the streets. That’s how they go about getting what they want.
“Usually black kids with such a situation become gangsters and shoot people in the streets. That’s how they go about getting what they want.”
What is equally hilarious and pathetically sad is, you are convinced you know what the fuck you’re talking about, when in reality, you don’t know shit!
Are you Black and from the ‘hood, son? 😉
Another preventable tragedy brought to you by the good folks at the NRA.
The NRA: because fat pasty cowards who cannot get laid without paying for it need lobbyists, too!!
Liberal with no thought process?
And yet they are “prevented” every day…
Another brain dead leftist making false suppositions about POG. How does your feeble brain connect the NRA to this tragedy?
WHAT…!!!☝️
“Ghost Gun” makes me think of the Boo characters from Super Mario Bros 3.
Oddly fitting.
Avatar.
Yep.
More than enough proof to demand the Federal Government pass a law making it illegal to build ghost guns. As we can see the father of the shooter had his guns seized and he then to get around the law started making his own unregistered guns which ended up in the hands of his deranged son. California’s laws did little to stop his father because the Manufactures of partially made receivers were able to legally manufacture such receivers which are sold to other states where they are legal and then they get funneled into States that ban such receivers and then into the hands of people like the shooters father that were prohibited from owning any guns. It would seem the kids father was as big a nut case as he was. Another case of more U.S. insanity when it comes to a lack of badly needed gun laws.
This is a more than valid case for serializing all guns, registering them and banning the sale of partial made receivers. Now we have two dead children which just might still be alive today if we had the same sane gun laws most other industrialized nations have. Of course this does not mean that simply banning ghost guns is a panacea, universal background checks, safe storage laws, and mental health tests to get a permit to buy a gun are all badly needed reforms or the mass murder will continue to go on and on. History has proven such laws have worked very well in other countries so no rants against such laws by the paranoids, the mentally ill and the para-military lunatic crowd are valid in the least.
It all comes down to passing such laws or forever living in a blood bath on a weekly and even daily basis. If you are a manufacturing company that uses blood products its cheaper by the gallon at most weekly school shootings these days. I am sure the Republicans are heavily invested in such companies because stock prices are surely on the rise with so much bargain rate blood for sale.
Vlad is using multiple identities now. That’s another wolftracker characteristic.
It is only speculation at this point his father made the firearm. It has not been verified how he ended up in posession of it.
Why a knee jerk reaction for a new law? How laws did the kid violate? One more law would have stopped him? Would any new law stop a future moron?
Why waste the time on measures that will not, have not and potentially empowers others to do the same thing? How about we look at other measure’s?
“Why a knee jerk reaction for a new law?”
Because “we’ve got to do something”, so we won’t feel bad about doing nothing when it happens again. Oh the guilt.
We need more laws to stop already illegal acts! When will the Republicans finally budge and let us pass a law that would make murder illegal?! Think of the children!🙄
Theory:
Deceased dad was a avid hunter and had guns from an early age as seen in his funeral photo album. Domestic complaint stripped him of lawful possession. “Dad” may not have been compliant and had the motivation and skill to buils a ghost 1911. It may well have been his only tool to fill the handgun mission. It was passed to Son at some time prior to Dads illness caused death. Mom may not have had knowledge. Motive may well be kid not being able to come to terms with Dads death in two years, decided he couldn’t live without his Dad and joined him using “Dad’s homebuild 1911”. The school shooting part is due to the publicity of such events get: trendy for desperate and depressed youth, I’m not happy and I’ll make others feel my pain. There in lies the motive.
Guns were seized in 2016 huh??
But the kid had no signs of trouble.
So the State STOLE the guns in 2016??
Was it because the owner died??
What gives the stat the right to take property without due process of law?
Just asking. .
And how do you know the guns were seized without due process of law?
Please cite your source for your assertion, thanks!
Because as currently written all Red Flag laws violate the 4th, 5th and 6th Amendments.
Actually your totally ignorant of history as most Conservatives are. Cops in my town were seizing guns from trouble makers and nut cases in the 1950’s when there were no red flag laws and when there are no red flag laws to spell out a persons rights you end up having no rights when the cops take your guns if your state or city has no red flag laws. At least under a red flag law a court order has to be given and most laws spell out how long and under what circumstances they can seize and keep guns. No such rules exist when you do not have a red flag law rather they take the guns and its up to you to spend hundreds of dollars suing them to get your guns back because technically they will tell you they do not have to give them back and I know of some case where they destroyed them so the owner could not get them back. Now try and tell me I am better off without a red flag law that states what they can and cannot do.
Your quoting the Constitution is really quite laughable as the courts seldom pay much attention to it and with all the red flag laws already passed as well as guns seized in the past without red flag laws certainly proves how worthless the Constitution has always been. If the general public accepts a law or wants it the Constitution means little or nothing as History has proven it over and over again. Ask the 100,000 Japanese citizens how much the Constitution protected them when the white power establishment took their homes and businesses and locked them up for 4 years, but oh wait! Conservatives will tell you Japanese citizens are not real citizens along with blacks, Indians, Chinese, LGBT people etc, etc.
I think 2016 was pre red flag but given the loopy nature of California gun laws I would not be surprised if another constitutionally questionable legal action was in use.
Oh, how well you know the conservatives! They are so racist, they dehumanize anyone who doesn’t look like them. They keep and bear firearms. They are violent and dangerous.
It’s a wonder there is still anyone left in the country, but conservatives.
Derp is strong with this one!
Because no gun seizure passes the due process test. The Constitution expressly prohibits the government from seizing property.
Hey Miner when are you going to eat a gun.
In California it is already against the law to build a “ghost gun” that is a semi-auto. The handgun roster law says that it is against the law to manufacture anything but a single action revolver or single shot pistol because it would be considered an unsafe handgun. It would have to be safety tested by an approved lab to be legal. So building this handgun is already illegal.
Kinda yes, but kinda no.
If you build a pistol as a single shot bolt action or break-breech, and then later convert/upgrade it, you’re fine. So if you build an AR pistol with one of those KaliKey charging handle/BCG combos, and then later decide to modify, you’re allowed to do so. All legal.
Then again, that’s a CA Penal Code that’s vague and a gray area, and for District Attorneys to split hairs over. Even LEOs and practicing attorneys can’t agree as to whether it’s legal or not, and all my LEO friends couldn’t care less if my 80% home builds were/are single shot or not. Some are, and some aren’t. Even so, nothing is registered (legally assembled before the July 1, 2018 cutoff), and any questionable items in my collection simply remain in my gun safe, disassembled and waiting for the next trip to NV or AZ.
Serial numbers and subsequent registration magically prevent and dissuade crime. Unlike incarceration, execution or armed citizens.
That’s their position.
Criminal justice reform anyone?
OH LOOK A Criminal broke another illegal communist law!!
When u have a natural human right codified in the Constitutional Frame Work in this republic so u can build whatever u want & nobody can say SHIP about etttttt….learn to like it or face boiling hot tar & feathering after a through whipping with bull whip.. followed by rope justice!
The only thing a serial number and sales records do is to create a trail of manufacture and posession. They do nothing to prevent crime.
They got the shooter (his body) and the firearm. What’s the problem? What difference does it make where the firearm came from? It’s 19th Century technology.
Further, back in the 1960’s, technical high school students had the skills to build firearms in the machine shop.
Of course his 1911 jammed lol, but hopefully that helped save lives.
I am curious as to why his fathers guns were seized after his death in 2016.
Quick “Ghost gun” tip:
simply grinding off the serial number from a gun will not completely remove it, because when the numbers are pressed into the gun, the metal below the stamping is compressed more so then the surrounding metal. The police can use a special acid that colors the metal different depending on how compressed it is, therefore revealing the serial numbers beneath.
The only way to remove it would be cut out the metal completely and weld a new piece in its place.
Source: an episode of Forensic Files.
This has been discussed here in previous threads. You are correct if the metal was only ground away at the surface for an older stamped barrel, but there are ways to more successfully obscure the numbering. Even so, the modern method of serialization is typically laser engraving, which does *not* apply those same stresses.
I will almost guaranty that there is a lot of ghost guns being made and sold there you know in a state like Ca.heck I know people that own guns that have been in their families since 40s to 60s where no record was ever made and that you would never find them
Fck the gunm and where it came from, dont matter. Humans got shot, a human did the shooting. Humans have a law against that, humans that dont obey moral laws aint worth having around.
Where can I buy a 80% 1911 frame?
Really? A quick online search will give you a dozen sources right away, from frames to full kits and jigs.
It was rhe corn dogs, they weren’t registered and that’s the worst kind. Always up to no good.
A gun that was put together with gun parts? Wow. Genius detective work there
You little commie sock chucker, the “glorification” of guns in movies and tv comes from anti gun scum like you in Hollywood and nyc. You whine about POTG I can speak for thousands here who will lift a glass to read the day you are found done in by criminals who you don’t have the balls to disarm while you advocate against freedom for the law abiding.
Man, I would never use a non serial gun. If it ain’t good enough for tv series ain’t good enough for me. And that’s all I got to say about that.
“Man, I would never use a non serial gun.”
Well, have it your way. I can never keep the shredded wheat from crumbling. Thinking of switching to vegetabletarian.
Youse gots to use stronger meelk
“Youse gots to use stronger meelk”
I let it sit on the counter for a week before use. Should be strong enough, but the little wheat bites just don’t hang together very long.
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