Mr. Korf from Texas wanted to throw a rebuttal out to Mr. Farago and myself about the true intentions of his pope. That is fine. It’s his pope. He quoted a long statement by Pope Francis. However, I have chosen to focus on this quote. This is the quote that most conservatives and gun owners like myself and Mr. Farago focus on . . .

It makes me think one thing: people, leaders, entrepreneurs that call themselves Christians, and produce arms! This gives some mistrust: they call themselves Christians! “No, no, Father, I don’t produce them, no, no …. I only have my savings, my investments in arms factories.” Ah! And why? “Because the interest is somewhat higher …” And a double face is also a current coin today: to say something and do another. Hypocrisy …

I’m far from ignorant and spent much time being taught Catholic doctrine, so spare me. I’m actually a little surprised at how this can be taken any other way. Read it a few times. It reads that those that produce arms are hypocritical and cannot call themselves Christian. The actual quote is difficult perhaps because of the translations and grammar applied, but the feel is still there. It’s amazing that this turned into a religious debate. It’s not. This has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with one man’s words. That man happens to be the pope. Should we just pretend and ignore because he has a high religious position of power? I think not. And I’m not afraid to say it.

I have no issue with another Christian, Catholic, Mormon, Buddhist, Sikh, Baptist, Lutheran or any other religious denomination you can throw at me. I judge the pope on his words, not on his position. He is a socialist at best and a communist at worst. Look a little deeper. I am not the only person that has interpreted his readings as such. Even fellow Catholics say this pope scares them. (Google his views on the poor, global warming, and his willingness to bow to Islam).

I could share the dozens of links, but that will only ignite the flames and that’s not my intention.  I want it known that my opinions are mine alone and not those of Mr. Farago or TTAG. I simply write what I feel. And I feel that pope Francis is a communist and is as corrupt as they get. (Check out how much the Vatican bank makes while you’re googling). I did not misinterpret his words. I believe others are irrationally supporting him.  Again opinions are like….you know.

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111 COMMENTS

      • Dick, you read it and took time to comment. I believe that is the websites job. To post things that make you read and comment.

        Some peoples kids.

      • Just FYI the pope ostracized the Beretta family with his anti-gun speech, it also means he denounced the worlds oldest arms manufacturer in the world.

        • Indeed, the worlds oldest and longest running corporation of any kind, if I recall correctly.

        • “I don’t produce them, no, no …. I only have my savings, my investments in arms factories.” Ah! And why? “Because the interest is somewhat higher …” And a double face is also a current coin today: to say something and do another. Hypocrisy.”

          Funny he mentions hypocrisy since the last I heard his own Vatican Bank was the largest shareholder in Beretta outside of the Beretta family.

      • Robert, since you don’t allow comments that are based upon unfounded personal attacks, how did allow Sara’s accusation about Pope Francis being corrupt slip by? Because the Vatican Bank — which Pope Francis has reformed — handles transactions? Robert, why do you have different standards for different people?

        • Sayeth thou, “since you don’t allow comments that are based upon unfounded personal attacks”.
          That almost certainly applies to personal attacks on commenters or authors, but it can’t apply to public figures.

          Beyond that, asserting that a religious leader is a corrupt communist is certainly relevant. Religious actions should be based on religion, not political ideology, and Pope Francis has long since stepped over that line.

          Or are you saying that Catholics are all communists and corrupt, or that such a pope is nothing remarkable?

  2. I just don’t care about the pope. And neither does most of the world. This is The Truth about ….what is it the truth about again?

    • If you don’t want to come on The Truth About GUNS and read what a leader of people says about GUN manufacturers and hear peoples opinion on what was said then click gun reviews when you get here and go away. I think despite your protestations you like it or else you would have clicked on by to the next article.

      • I know. He saw the title – he clicked on it – read it – and then complained about it in the comments. If one doesn’t want to read about it – why not skip over it? Some of us do want to read about it. It most certainly does pertain to guns.

      • No, it’s not a small number. But it doesn’t granulate the demographic. Plenty of people leave their false churches when their leaders prove them to be false churches… Not everyone is so dumb that they just keep blindly following the obviously corrupt.

        Let the Pope make a douche of himself. I don’t go to Church for a reason, but I still believe in God.

  3. I’ve found it a tendency of those who have left the Catholic church to have a bias against it. Rather than write how you feel about it, write what you know and support it by quotes, links, etc. That will engender a rational debate rather than fan the flames as this article will surely do.

    • And this surprises you why, exactly?

      Most people who choose to leave an organization have a reason for doing so.

  4. Not just a communist but a liar. Weeks earlier, he claimed to have read the Qu’ran in support of his allegation that Islam is a religion of peace. Either he’s never read the book or is running a deceitful campaign of appeasement toward a genocidal death cult that’s slaughtering over 100,000 innocent Christians annually.

    • I wonder if the Hadith and Sira were included in those 🙂 Curious what the ol popernator thought about Taqiyya and whats been happening to the Yazidis these past months.

  5. “He is a socialist at best and a communist at worst.”

    Two sides of the same coin, one side has just discovered it needs an AK (or machete depending on continent) and the will to use it on you for the ultimate Utopian glory comrade!

    Seems like the Vatican bank is doing pretty well for itself under Francis, I truthfully have paid little to no attention to his doings in office, the religion thing is not my shtick personally.

    However, anyone who says things like the quote below is intentionally trying to blow as much holy smoke up my butt as humanly possible.

    ““Islam is a religion of peace, one which is compatible with respect for human rights and peaceful coexistence,” the pope said.”

  6. After reading this section several times, I’m afraid I have to agree. He makes a very broad statement, encompassing thousands of men and women he’s never met and labels them hypocrites. That’s a shame. He’s done a lot of things I approve of, a lot I don’t care about at all, and now said something that I strongly disagree with. Oh well. Another pope that isn’t perfect. Surprise!

  7. I’m a lifelong Catholic. No one should be deluded about this pope’s un-Catholic agenda. Many of the things he presents as “Catholic” are far from it. This is one of them.

  8. I figure he is likely a nice old guy who is just another European Leftist if a bit senile. I would like to remind folks that while NYC is still not underwater and we still haven’t run out of oil and the Artic is still covered in ice, that the END IS NEAR! Or not.

    • Just one minor correction, Rusty Chains. He is a South American Leftist, not an European Leftist. Otherwise, you are correct.

  9. The pope’s opinion means no more than anyone else’s,and we know the saying about opinions.

  11. Ok, this needs to stop. If you want to share your opinions, start a personal blog, on a different website. These posts do nothing but stir up anti-catholic hate. Ttag is NOT the place for this kind of bias religious reporting.

    • The only thing that stirs “anti-Catholic” hate is those who lead the church and then who use their position to spew political messages that have nothing to do with the teachings of Christ, such as this current Pope’s anti-gun stance. I come from a Catholic family and am tired of those who hide behind the snively “anti-Catholic hate speech” nonsense and the constant attempt by many Catholics to portray themselves as victims when it comes to articles such as this. Welcome to freedom of speech and freedom of thought.

      This site is called TRUTH ABOUT GUNS which means that sometimes the truth is ugly when it comes to telling about those who are anti-gun. Including this Pope!!!

      • So that justifies the author making unfounded accusations that the Pope is “corrupt” and on the take?

        A bigger question is why personal attacks such as those in this article are allowed, when we are admonished from making personal attacks in the comments.

        Does the TTAG have different rules for different people? Why does Ms. Tipton receive such favored treatment?

        • Questioning a religious leader’s character and having an observational opinion that one my be corrupt or on the take is on the same level as a personal attack? Are you insisting upon certain subjects/people/leaders/faith, etc. should be placed above reproach?

        • If you have no reason to rationally observe or deduce or suspect that someone is on the take, yes, absolutely it is a personal attack.

    • So do you think that all the writers should post nothing but C&Ps of news articles? Nearly every post here is a personal opinion. I thought that religious conservatives didn’t care who got offended by un-PC talk?

    • Speaking for myself, there’s a lot more reasons people may hate me than for being a Catholic.

      That’s way WAY, W-A-Y down on people’s lists, if at all.

      I think if a poll were taken, the group most upset with His Holiness would be members of the Holy Roman Church. Just a thought.

  14. As others have said- these opinion pieces are getting old. Truth About Guns yes? If I wanted someone’s personal opinion about religion or politics unrelated to firarms I would go read one of the many blogs or “news” sources out there.

    • If I wanted someone’s personal opinion about religion or politics unrelated to firarms…

      You’ve got to be kidding. The Pope telling the world that people who manufacture firearms are hypocrites and not Christians is “unrelated to firearms????”

      • Definitely less related than the author’s unfounded accusations that the Pope is “corrupt” and on the take.

        At that point, the article became less about gun issues and just about a personal attack.

        Yet, the author says she was raised catholic and thus is informed. Much like so many anti-gun posters who “had a great-uncle in WWII” and thus we should trust their opinion about our gun freedom.

        • Definitely less related than the author’s unfounded accusations that the Pope is “corrupt” and on the take.

          At that point, the article became less about gun issues and just about a personal attack.

          Yea, I think I can agree with that. If she is accusing the Pope of being corrupt, she should share her evidence in such. And even still – that portion may be best located on a different blog.

          That said, I think her portion on the statement made by the pope was right on. While we argue about it here, the NY Daily news boasts that gun owners are hypocrites – using the Pope’s words directly against us:

          http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/pope-christian-gun-makers-hypocrites-article-1.2268015

    • Jack, thanks for your opinion- here is the about page for TTAG, http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/about/

      and I quote, “to explore the ethics, morality, business, politics, culture, technology, practice, strategy, dangers and fun of guns.”

      You saying you are not a man of culture, or ni-culturny, as my droogs would say? Sorry to hear that.

      PS:Write on, Sara. I dont read everything at TTAG, but darn sure watch for yours. Keep up the good work.
      PS2: you want crazy eyes and strong opinions on the Pope- check out Barnhardt. Yee haw, ride em cowgirl.

  16. I really don’t think this is going to inspire catholic hate. TTAG reported on it because the leader of a major religion made a comment about arms manufacurers, which is well within the TTAG wheelhouse of reporting. To shy away from it simply because he’s the pope would be ridiculous. You can’t cover some things and not other for fear of offending. It’s why TTAG began in the first place. Sorry if you are offended. I assume you are a devout catholic and take this as a direct jab at your faith. Not so. It is just opinions in response to opinions and I doubt anyone here will be mobilized to hate Catholics because of it. Hope you enjoy the other articles a bit more.

  17. “The lady doth protest to much.” If my memory serves I believe it was Shakespeare who wrote the line in Hamlet.
    Does having an anti catholic bias help the site TTAG? It’s getting old and reminds me of 95% of the internet today. The one thing that seems to unite both the far left and far right is a hatred for the Catholic Church. So go ahead and pile on Sarah, you will join “good” company. I think it is safe to argue that Obama, Pelosi, and leftists hate guns at about the same level as they hate the Church. The Church is a threat because it offers one vision for human happiness and freedom. Catholics (and traditional Christians) offer a vision that is radically different from the dictatorship of relativism which they (the left) seek to force on us. Please Ttag if your going to engage the Pope do so according to the entire vision of his work vs choice soundbites that inflame the heart.

    • Whether an anti-catholic bias is a plus to working at TTAG remains to be seen. If nothing else, the author appears to be exempt from TTAG’s rules that no personal attacks are to be made.

      Unless you think that calling the Pope corrupt and on-the-take with no justification is not a personal attack. But that would be just silly.

  18. Good for you Sara. It’s Francis’ pro-muslim anti-capitalist socialist/communist south american liberation stance that troubles me more-than guns. I thought Benedict and John Paul were good men of God-and I am not Catholic.

  19. Man, TTAG is full of crybabies these days. Sara, don’t bother moving to Texas if you’re bringing your liberal California upbringing with you.

    • Sara can come to Indiana. We have better gun laws than Texas anyway. I was thinking of a trade…Sara goes to Indiana and Shannon goes to Kommiefornia.

    • I would say that personal attacks have no place in Texas, and should remain in California.

  20. “Mr. Korf from Texas wanted to throw a rebuttal out to Mr. Farago and myself about the true intentions of his pope. That is fine. It’s his pope. He quoted a long statement by Pope Francis. However, I have chosen to focus on this quote. This is the quote that most conservatives and gun owners like myself and Mr. Farago focus on…”

    Nice job picking and choosing the quote that supports your argument. Isn’t that what liberals do? Good job reporting…not.

    • So her taking the “firearms related” quote and addressing it on the “firearms related” website sounds like a good reason to pick and choose.

      Did the pope say it or not? That is the real question. If he said it – it speaks for itself.

    • And you want her to ignore the quote that you choose to disregard. Nice job picking and choosing which of his utterances we listen to.

      You Catholics need to listen to what’s being said. If I attack Obama because he is attempting to destroy America, have I attacked my country? No. If we criticize the Pope for his anti-gun stance, are we attacking the church and it’s followers? No.

      What you propose is following the man blindly because he is the Pope. And i guess we should blindly follow Obama because he is the President? And as such is beyond criticism?

      It is exactly that willful ignorance that got us Obama in the first place. Anyone with eyes should have known what he was before the election. But the “uncomfortable” facts were ignored.

    • Liberals also claim to have had a great uncle who was in WW2, and that justifies their anti-gun expertise.

  21. This is going to be your last article on it? A parting shot of religious bigotry, with Sara Tipton exercising her ex-Catholic angst? It’s obvious where you want to leave the score. This is not even a gun issue. When people talk about “weapons manufacturers” on the international stage, they are talking about the big stuff, WMD, etc., an argument for a different forum. This whole discussion does not belong here. Only the initial report would have made sense here, but only if it had been a balanced report, which it was not.

    Sara said “I have no issue with another Christian, Catholic, Mormon, Buddhist, Sikh, Baptist, Lutheran or any other religious denomination you can throw at me.” Well Sara, after the tone and one-sidedness your two articles on the topic, that is BS on the face of it. This whole exchange has brought TTAG down two notches in my estimation.

    • This whole exchange has brought TTAG down two notches in my estimation.

      How many notches are there total and how many notches did you have TTAG at before her statement?

      • For me, it is the first huge blemish. Sponsoring a personal attack on the Pope for being “corrupt” and on the take, when we plebes have been excoriated—and rightly so—to refrain from making personal attacks on anti-gunners.

        TTAG used to stand for the proposition of unapologetically, unfletchingly, but justly insisting upon not only the right to bear arms but doing it the right way. Facts, not emotions.

        I am truly puzzled by the decision by Robert and others to endorse this kind of behavior.

        • Maybe Robert believes the pope is corrupt. Maybe a lot of people do. When people make accusations here against Obama or Anti-gun people, they often go overlooked. But if I called you a XXXXXXX, the editors would remove it and replace it with [Flame Deleted]. Reform or not – given the historical actions of the Catholic church, maybe, quite simply, they feel the term is justified. One only need to go to google and type in “catholic church corruption” and get 5,750,000 different results. But ultimately, just because some parts of the church at some point in time may or may not have been corrupt, doesn’t mean my neighbor is. Just because the Pope and the Vatican’s chief spokesman (Rev. Federico Lombardi) are anti-gun (even though they are protected by guns) doesn’t mean all Catholics are.

  23. All these butthurt Catholics, crying about how Robert is too “PC” in one article, crying about being offended in the Pope articles.

    • The thing I find hysterical about most of these “butthurt Catholics” is the fact that the only time I’ve seen most of them post is when it’s to piss and moan about their fearless leader being taken to task. They don’t seem to be able to differentiate between the spokeshole and their religion. It borders on idolatry.

      Fact is, the dude put his foot in his mouth and made statements about his personal opinion while appearing in an official capacity. I can’t wait til he does it again (and he will) so the same whimpering victims can whine about being singled out some more

      • Laugh away.

        I can only hope that Robert and the rest of TTAG correct this episode of sponsoring a personal attack (the Pope is corrupt and on the take) so that TTAG can get back to the people’s business of defending my right to bear arms.

        Because I know deep in the heart of many, that right keeps so many bigots in fear of carrying out what they really want to do. Keeps them on the sidelines, “laughing” instead.

        • Because I know deep in the heart of many, that right keeps so many bigots in fear of carrying out what they really want to do. Keeps them on the sidelines, “laughing” instead.

          Go pray for guidance, you’re out of your damned head.

    • You may be interested in the up coming debate about guns in churches here in America. The gun pod casts I listen to are planning this discussion. Some have already done it several months ago.

      TTAG has already discussed church gun give a ways.

  24. 4 years at Pius High Schol and 4 years at Notre Dame. Then I left. Never to look back. Old. Catholic doctrine used to be that man had FREE WILL and that is what allowed humans to CHOOSE Salvation. So one can choose to be productive or not. One can choose to vigorously defend his God given life with the best weapons or wait for the beheading knife. Without choice there is no Salvation no matter what misfortunes you suffer.

  25. That there are people who still place actionable belief in these fairy tales –and carry firearms– is what is truly scary. We can explain the rising and setting of the sun now people, get over it.

    • No, what is truly scary is someone who can discount someone’s entire belief structure, regardless of the reasons behind it, as a “fairy tale” and reduce them thereby to some sort of subhuman thing. I do recall reading about people who did that to other people quite recently in history books.

      Or were you merely suggesting that no true socialist believes in gods above the State? Snarky, pat, regurgitated answers spoken by people who never learned to think for themselves are always so hard to read the subtext on.

  26. Some will agree with the Pope because they are taught and believe they CAN’T question the Pope. Must be tough to accept when your faith leader is wrong.

  27. I fervently hope that all Christians will agree that God made every rock and tree branch on Earth, correct? I also fervently hope that all Christians will agree that mankind has used rocks and tree branches (e.g. clubs) countless times to murder people, correct? Therefore, applying the Pope’s standard, God is not Christian because he made the rocks and tree branches which men/women used to murder innocent victims.

    Does this make it clear what is wrong with the Pope’s statement?

    Unless a firearms manufacturer explicitly endeavors to manufacture and sell firearms to ISIS and the like, I don’t see how the Pope can claim those manufacturers are false or hypocritical Christians.

  28. What a wonderfully ignorant opinion piece, Sarah…I know you spell your name without the “h”, but I figure if you can interpret the Pope’s words so blatantly out of context, then I can spell your name so blatantly against how you spell it. You’ve completely twisted the context of his discussion (which was not uttered as Church doctrine, btw) to suit your obvious anti-Catholic bias. And in so doing…you have turned this blog into your personal soap box.

    “I could share the dozens of links, but that will only ignite the flames and that’s not my intention.” Actually…I think fanning the flames was your intention since you felt the need rebuttal a rebuttal. Sort of like trying to have the last word.

    This opinion piece and the way in which it had been handled has the potential to relegate TTAG to being nothing better than a cheap clickbait liberal rag.

  30. He is a socialist at best and a communist at worst. Look a little deeper. I am not the only person that has interpreted his readings as such. Even fellow Catholics say this pope scares them. (Google his views on the poor, global warming, and his willingness to bow to Islam). pope Francis is a communist and is as corrupt as they get.
    Actually Pope Francis and his ilk remind me most of the Sandinista Catholic Liberation Theology back in the 80s and 90s. Argentina is a very liberal country which has about a 40 percent inflation rate due to the fact that it has too many social programs for its city dwellers and the productive folks in the country cannot support them. Sound familiar?

  31. Sara Tipton needs to learn how to read for understanding.

    I’m Lutheran, and so have no love for popes. But the speech clearly called for people whining about guns (who later always call for attacking this or that evil using guns that are somehow suddenly OK) to see that the problem isn’t what is made, but why. Love of money is the true problem.

    I’ll be sure to ignore Sara’s posts from now on. The only thing I find more contemptible than a loud-mouthed ignoramus is a deliberate one.

  32. He’s a religious leader; he thinks and speaks in absolutes. With this in mind, his comments are totally logical and I’m surprised that people are taken aback by them. It’s ancient thinking trying to grapple with reality, and we still see it all the time.

    Many people are aware of the chasm between this rigid, absolutist worldview and the goings-on in the actual real world.

  33. now that gay marriage is u.s. legal he still won’t allow priests to do so. no contraception needed.
    I don’t think his interpretation of the bible means what he thinks it means.

  34. “He is a socialist at best and a communist at worst.” You could say the same of Jesus.

    • Actually, Jesus and the early Christians advocated what I would describe as community based communism … noting that they specifically did NOT advocate for a central government that owned everything. Or perhaps you could call it nearly unlimited charity for their community.

      Their concept was quite simple. Everyone should help — financially, emotionally, and spiritually — their neighbors who experienced disasters in life. And the more blessings a person had (e.g. meaning the more wealthy they were), the more that person should help (give) to their neighbor who was suffering from a disaster.

      There were two important elements that were NOT part of the concept. The government did not own all the community property. And the community was not obliged to help a neighbor who suffered consequences as a result of foolish behavior.

      I have no idea how closely the Catholic Church operates to that ideal these days. If the Pope is advocating for government to own and manage everything, then I would call that advocating for Soviet style Communism. That would be disappointing and disconcerting to say the least.

    • Actually, based on my interpretations of biblical scripture, I believe Jesus to be an anarchist. He wanted God to be loved and worshipped, no one else. He puts His first. John Paul II spoke of compassion and love. I have the utmost respect for him. Ignoring anything I write is your choice. I will write about anyone making statements about guns, gun owners, or manufactures. I have the right to say what I wish, you have the right to ignore or get offended. I don’t control your reaction. I control mine. Say what you wish of me.

      • I’m not offended in any way Sara. As an atheist, I don’t have a dog in this fight. I was just trying to make a point that if the Pope has socialist or communist leanings it wouldn’t be out of line with the foundations of his religion.

  35. Allow me to suggest an alternate title for this article:

    Sara Tipton: Another Article About Me, and Guns (Kinda). Also, Can Everyone See My Name in the Title?

    Robert, if your goal is to pull women visitors into your blog, I can’t speak to whether or not that’s working. But what it looks like to me (and surely others based on their comments) is that you’ve got a much lower standard for Sara than your other bloggers. Seriously, would the steady stream of barely relevant, marginal articles like this even get published if they were from a guy? Read that last sentence again.

    Since it seems like you’re going down the Affirmative Action path, will your next hire be a subpar transgender gun blogger, because transgender?

    Lame.

  37. If there is even a single weapon, of any sort, being used to guard Vatican City, the Pope is just another hypocritical piece of shit.

      • A weapon is a weapon. As for pole arms, their dog and pony folks may have them but the rest have plenty of firearms.

    • And if there’s any air conditioning being used in Vatican City, he’s doubly fork-tongued.

  38. Live and let live. Let the religious have their beliefs, but use your brain and walk away from the superstition.

  39. So how does a discussion like this help gun rights? Does anyone here really think the POTG will be stronger by creating bitter internal divisions over religion? It makes no more sense than dividing over race. I thought we were trying to pull more gun owners togethter on the issue of gun rights in this country, an issue the Pope has nothing to do with.

  40. I guess the pope forgets that civil society and liberty became possible of two reasons not one. The judeo Christain moral code, and the concealable firearm.
    Before the concealable firearm, government and the Catholic Church ruled as tyrants.

  41. One could mistakenly believe that the Vatican might have learned from its history of abuse, killing and general intolerance, alas that is not the case.

  42. “And I feel that pope Francis is a communist and is as corrupt as they get.”

    Ya know, sentiments like this don’t do much to make People of the Gun seem any more sensible, rational and not prone to hyperbole.

  43. My grievances with Pope Francis are far more numerous, far more grounded, and far better reasoned than yours, I assure you. I have no problem with people taking him to task, so long as they do it accurately. In another age I would’ve expected courtesy as well as accuracy, but such are the times in which we live. The simple fact is that you are cherry picking a statement to make an argument out of confirmation bias, peppering it with ad hominem attacks, and ad populum appeals to internet sources. I guess that is what passes for journalism these days.

    The matter is as I have said, a rebuke of war-profiteers and those who would sell out a younger generation for profit. It takes the whole paragraph and then some to get that message. If you refuse to see that, then I shall not be surprised.

  44. Frankly, I’m somewhat at a loss for words regarding this article. The rebuttal provided context for the pope’s quote, which Ms. Tipton blatantly chose ignore. Perhaps she should refrain from writing articles pertaining to the Catholic faith, as she has made her biases quite clear in this piece.

  45. Definitely not a religious argument.
    Just willful blind contextual ignorance and self-serving stubbornness with a little inflated sense of self. We’ve all been there, maybe just not so publicly. Though in my opinion, not at all up to the standards of this blog.

    BUT, one could also argue that these same values are what got the Catholic church to where it is today. At least until they hired a hippie to focus a little more closely on the bible-advertised values instead of inflexibility, secrecy and corruption. Agree with him or not, he’s the first religious leader in an awfully long time to do any actual leading.

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