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Most of those on the “ban guns” side of the aisle simply don’t understand firearms. They’ve never taken the opportunity to learn; many just assume that a gun holds some sort of magical evil power by virtue of its existence. After spending some time with in-laws far from me politically over the past week, I understand that you can’t change the mind of an anti-gunner quickly. But it can be done.

Once someone brings up the topic of guns, mentioning the democide in Rwanda in 1994 after the banning of weapons tends to make antis visibly uncomfortable. It’s almost like they know they’re wrong, but don’t want to admit it. A lot of anti-gun activists try to defend these actions by governments, which is sickening. But most, like my in-laws, never stop to think that gun control enables mass murder.

Things got a bit awkward on the boat when my son decided to let everyone know that he shot a “big gun.” That wasn’t really true. He’s shot a BB gun, the one we bought him for his birthday last month. I guess it’s big to him though. Honestly, my four- and five-year-olds probably know more about guns than those I talked to about it in the past week.

Obviously, California has all but eliminated the right to keep and bear arms, but I was hoping I could at least get a few people to read a little history and look into democide before continuing to call for things like “no-fly no-buy.” I don’t go around looking to convince people to like guns. I honestly just want them to stop calling for more restrictions on me and others because they don’t like shooting or because a lunatic somewhere used a gun in a manner that’s unnacceptable.

For example, I don’t like vaccinations, but I’m certainly not calling for a ban on them. I assume parents can make their own decisions without the government having to insert themselves into every aspect of our lives.

Little conversations like this can sometimes help the calmer gun-haters to get a little bit of a grip on their ideology, especially when talking to others who largely dislike vaccines as well. Making the comparison to one of their hot button issues tends to at least get them thinking.

None of this means I’ve changed any minds. I don’t know if I have or not. But keeping a cool head and being a gun owner that others can respect goes a long way to get some to listen, at the very least. Even on the high seas.

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71 COMMENTS

  1. It’s not just “third world countries” either. After bans on firearms in 1934 the Democrat president reintroduced slavery with a mere stroke of his pen, needing no help from congress, in 1942. The supreme court he rigged declared both constitutional.

  3. That’s good. Anyone have any ideas for in-laws that are pro gun but also tow the line democrats? Believe me, I’ve tried pointing out the cognitive dissonance. They’re not exactly FUDDs, but you could make the comparison. They don’t ever flip on me about ARs or the fact I carry everywhere, they are actually fine with it. But guns to them are only for hunting, and they’re huge Hillary fans. I just, don’t understand it…

    • Because the RTKBA is not the only issue in peoples lives. And we don’t really do much to promote it. It’s like the the Fourth Amendment, cool and all, but they want criminals off the street.

      • Little known fact: It is “toe the line” and I have heard that it comes from British Parliament where they had lines on the floor delineating party groups in the House of Commons so to “toe the line” was to stay within your party’s lines (I’ll bet that is also where “party line” comes from too).

    • I just don’t care. That’s my solution. I’m not out to change minds.

      Would they be able to change your mind on firearms? No. They are entitled to their views and opinions, just as are we.

    • It’s also Fudd, not FUDD. It would be FUDD if it were an acronym, but in fact it’s a (fictional character’s) proper name.

      However there’s one silver lining: You didn’t type “populous” when you meant “populace.”

      More to the point: If guns are not an important issue to someone who’s OK with them, it’s quite likely they’ll vote for an anti-gunner because of some other issue that is much more important to them.

      • Yeah, I get that. I don’t pick fights with them about it unless they directly attack me on something. I just wish I knew of a way to show them it’s about so much more than ARs, and that they will also be seen as the enemy when push comes to shove.

  4. “For example, I don’t like vaccinations, but I’m certainly not calling for a ban on them. I assume parents can make their own decisions without the government having to insert themselves into every aspect of our lives”
    And trust me, there would be a lot a parents who will put it off.

    So you are for bringing back smallpox? The only reason is parents even think twice about them is because of the fact that previous generations underwent them and eliminated a lot of the really nasty crap.

    But when babies start dying because out outbreaks of measles, we can talk again

    • yeah im trying really hard not to point out HER cognitive dissonance when it comes to vaccinations. its been THOROUGHLY proven that the Dr. that said vaccinations cause autism falsified his findings. He even admitted it.

      Otherwise, i agree with her completely. You are never going to change someones mind on the spot. Well, you might but they mostly likely won’t let you know it. I have had quite a few conversations with my mother who is very anti-gun and she has actually changed her tune, to a certain point. She is still for certain aspects of gun-control but realizes now, its up to us to protect ourselves. The “taking up arms against tyranny [namely the government]” she doesn’t think is feasible. I’m working on that now too.

      • Effects of not vaccinating your children…
        – Your 4 or 5 year old could get sick and die.
        – Your 4 or 5 year old could become a carrier, even if they don’t get sick.
        – Your 4 or 5 year old carrier could infect a newborn or young infant that hasn’t had all their immunizations yet, causing a child to die.

        And for the record…
        – no peer reviewed scientific study has shown that vaccines can make someone autistic (even Jenny “walked it back”)
        – anti-vaxxers are causing preventable diseases to make a comeback. Including measles, mumps, and whooping cough… in the US!

        • DO, up until a few months ago there was no vaccine for leprosy. So “unvaccinated illegal aliens from Mexico are bringing back polio and leprosy as well” is a super misleading statement, if not outright inflammatory. They might be bringing it over, but they’re not “bringing it back.” You’re suggesting vaccines eradicated leprosy in the US, when it didn’t.

        • I’m certainly no expert on vaccines , as I can assume you and no one else on TTAG posting their comments , is either , but I do read some and I do have a wee amount of common sense and I do believe the in wisdom of those cumulative lessons before we were here that point out that excess is the enemy and moderation is the key to longevity and the problem with modern vaccination medicine is the amounts administered on top of each other . You know a head cold won’t generally kill you , but one on top of the flu on top of an intestinal infection on top of existing breathing disorders on top of a Herpes out break might do you in . As always , we aren’t happy with a large cola , we SUPERSIZE .

    • It’s funny, but the effect of vaccinations on the abundance of disease and the effect of gun ownership (and carry) on the abundance of crime are rather similar.

      Having a gun is not a 100% guarantee of safety from crime, nor is being vaccinated 100% guarantee of being safe from the particular disease. But if enough people in a population are vaccinated or armed (I’d say lawfully, but it should be armed with-out criminal intent) then the population begins to exhibit group immunity and you chances of being a victim of the disease or of crime are much lower than if you were armed alone. In fact the chances of a non-vacinated person or of a non-armed person being infected or victimize also become far lower.

      And herd immunity is the reason people can start to get the idea that you don’t need vaccines or that you don’t need to be armed. But once enough people stop getting vaccinated (see whooping cough in portland) or stop being armed (see Chicago) then the population starts to loose it’s herd immunity and every body vaccinate/armed or not is at greater risk.

      This last part is an important point to make to anti-vaccine supporters and gun-control supporters. It’s not just the effect that your personal decision has on you, it’s the effect it has on the population around you as-well.

      • You can draw a parallel on the negative aspects as-well. Yes, there is an inherent risk to vaccines. But that risk is same a generally outweighed by the benefits. Yes, there is greater risk if you own firearms, but the risk is mitigated/eliminate with proper gun handling and storage. There are some people who really cannot be vaccinated due to health issues, allergies, age. There are some people who can’t handle a weapon, due to physical issues, mental issues, criminal issues. Fortunately for both groups, they can still benefit from herd immunity.

      • I LOVE THAT COMPARISON!
        Seriously, have any accredited researchers
        studied the issue from that angle? Please cite! I want to save it to a file!

    • Smallpox is perhaps an unfortunate example to use to make your point, being that in the US we no longer vaccinate for it. My mom’s generation was the last one who got the “mark” on their shoulders. But we have a lot of people shuffling around from the 3rd world to the 1st, so they might not want to go breaking the molds just yet.

  5. “But keeping a cool head and being a gun owner that others can respect goes a long way…”

    Bingo!
    We smile. We speak and act with courtesy, kindness and respect. We ask questions in a non-threatening, non-denigrating way. We can ask, “Do you remember what happened in Rwanda in 1994?”

    Most importantly, we can invite them to the range, teach them about the technology and how to handle it safely. Fear is based on a lack of knowledge and can only be alleviated with knowledge.

  6. A good endpoint, but the whole thing about vaccinations is a nonstarter for me. I certainly hope it’s not because you at all believe that they “cause autism”, because, yikes. Still, the point is solid; just because you disagree with someone about something doesn’t mean you have to yell at them to get your point across. Slow and steady wins the race and all that.

    On an unrelated note, why is Tipton the only TTAG writer who puts their name in the title of all their posts? ‘Cause, you know, your name is right under it, too. Not even a full inch further down.

    • Probably because she is a rare female pro-gun blogger and TTAG wants to get the most mileage out of that when a referral link just includes the headline? Just guessin’ though.

    • I know it’s a slightly different situation, but there are a lot of times when one of the regulars posts something that was really written by a third party. I think that third party’s name should be in the title, not just in a sentence at the beginning of the post.

      Like I said, this is a bit different because Sara is a regular and posts under her own name.

  7. The best way to win the hearts and minds of people who are ignorant about guns is to take them to the range and help them shed their ignorance with a little firearms training and target practice. My mother-in-law is staunchly anti “having a loaded gun in the house without a safety”. Yet she admits that she doesn’t know anything about guns besides what she hears on the news. My CC is a model 642 revolver and my children are grown. She doesn’t know the difference between a revolver and an auto pistol or the pros and cons of safeties, let alone other terms such as “striker fired”. Despite her admitted ignorance on the subject, she holds very strong opinions. She’s a staunch republican btw, so politics is really not a factor.

  8. It sometimes sparks lively debates when one of my anti gun buddies calls me “pro-gun”, I immediately correct them and tell them I am “pro-individual rights”. After their mouths open and shut a few times with nothing coming out, we talk about it. Items such as the “no fly-no buy” list as compared to an apparently forgotten right of “Due Process” gets their attention. Haven’t changed a lot of minds yet, but I do try my best to get them thinking about it. Biggest obstacle is getting them to understand what the 2A is and why its worded the way it is. The Federalist Papers have been a big help.

  9. Yes, Ms. Tipton is the TTAG female pro-gun blogger. We are fortunate to read her articles concerning:
    -Tactical Yoga Pants
    -Never-Trump
    -Transgender Bathrooms
    -Facebook negativity
    -Vaccinations

    High quality stuff there. Her articles must be designed to attract the female readership, though “feelings” and all that.

    • You know she’s written over 100 articles on other subjects, right? Maybe you’d prefer less diversity in the authors and subjects?

      • Sure Kevin. I left out the artificial penis article from yesterday. Sorry. High quality stuff there. Don’t know how I’ve gotten along without this “diversity” up until the TTAG point in my life.

        • -Tactical Yoga Pants
          -Never-Trump
          -Transgender Bathrooms
          -Facebook negativity
          -Vaccinations
          -artificial penises

          Way to tip your hand there, bud. Now we know where your interests lie. You know you don’t have to read everything that you see, right?

  10. basically the Anti-gun movement is a Satanist organization that believes that a non soul owning machine is capable of being evil by all by them selves, the only Evil in this, is the removal of the freedom of choice by the anti- American ones to enhance their own power, this is what the Democrat Party ‘s end game is total control, by the Godless!

  11. Generally speaking, you can’t reason someone out of a position they emoted themselves into. So it’s usually not worth trying.

  12. And here’s what I’ve to say to Sara Tipton…

    Your beliefs of “democide” and the “evil government” are nothing but a MYTH!!!

    Your beliefs that everyone needs a gun to protect themselves is based on irrational fear of evil boogeyman on every corner.

    Your nihilistic belief that somehow killing innocent people, oppressing them with debunked propaganda,. smear campaigns against honest, hardworking people for choosing a life of peace, freedom and rights versus tyranny, violence and hate disguised as “patriotism”.

    You continue to fall for the same hogwash the brainwashed masses of the gun believe.

    Europe, Canada, Japan and let alone Australia doesn’t suffer from the violent crime, anarchy or mayhem that happens here everyday.

    I’ve been to Australia many times and returned from there yesterday, I went around the country and saw no violence, crime or anything bad that people like you erroneously claim is happening everyday there due to the NFA act of 96 which saved lots of innocent lives and had a hand in increased freedoms of their people and helped their country prosper. People there don’t have to fear leaving their homes.

    Been more concerned about how this country is complete mess, awashed with guns and mass shootings happening everyday.

    Continue to live in complete denial about how your “rights” are hurting everyone. If you people cared about protecting yourselves and loved ones. You’d ditched your lies about how guns make us “safe” when statistically they’re not!

    If more guns made us safe, We’d be the safest country in the world. But we are not.

    I know what you and people like you Sara are…

    You are nothing but con artists, liars, snake oil salesmen, hypocrites, and tyrants.

    And I will continue to fight the good fight against the fascism of the NRA and the gun lobby.

      • In sort of a back handed way, I sort of like having people like that around, at least occasionally. If nothing else, it again reminds people who love liberty that there are those who are determined to take our rights from us, and tell us how we should live, and how we should think. The difference between those who truly believe in the Constitution and this fool who would like nothing more than to subvert it is we tend to stay out of other people’s business and their choices, so long as its legal. Their kind cannot stop from wishing to control everything we do, say or think. Yet we are the Fascists………

      • No.
        We (or rather, the TTAG management) do not want to be like the web sites and faceplant pages of the emotion-driven leftists who call for “conversation” and then delete and ban comments or questions that run contrary to their agenda.

        We’re better than that. I hope.

        Respond to ignorant statements if you want, or not. But the comments should be open to opposing views.

    • Well, I’m pretty lost about what it is you want.

      “AmericansAgainstProGunFacism” – “Facism” in a sound bite is approximately: “Everything within the state, nothing outside the state.”

      Of course there are additional aspects of “facism” depending on who you ask, and when. The notion of a great leader, perceptive of the ineffable will of the people. Law as what the dear leader says, not law independent of individuals – what is typically meant by “rule of law.” Institutions as means for implementing this revealed will, vs. for revealing it. Of course, fascist government is by definition not limited.

      Fascism is also fundamentally anti-republican (small “r”). The people don’t govern themselves, but rather are governed, ruled is more like it, by insightful overlords, who know their will and needs better than they do, themselves.

      So, to start, citizens doing anything, autonomously, individually, of their own choosing, is anti-facist. Or at least un-facist.

      “American Against Over-Armed Law Enforcement”, “American Against Occupation by ‘Peace Officer'”, would make some sort of sense. American Against Every Agency Has a SWAT Team” might be a bit too on point.

      “Your beliefs of “democide” and the “evil government” are nothing but a MYTH!!!”

      ? Speaking for myself, my take on what governments are capable of is an observation vs. a “myth.” Aside from the genocides going on in the middle east right now, plus the lighter “cleansing” of strong man Edrogan, um, Cambodia (AKA Kampuchia), Rwanda, Angola, South Africa, about 87 different configurations in the Balkans, the Russia / Ukraine cleansings.

      That’s staying in modern times.

      Or, for first hand accounts, I have friends from several parts of the world who are perfectly clear on what they were avoiding by coming to the US. You really don’t get fatalism until you’ve dealt with someone from one of the former soviet satellites.

      So, you’d like us all to what? Believe that these things didn’t happen?

      “Your beliefs that everyone needs a gun to protect themselves is based on irrational fear of evil boogeyman on every corner.”

      So, there’s no violence to protect ones self from, but look at all the violence.

      You’re arguing that people shouldn’t prepare for what might happen, and if something bad starts, just die quietly. That’s the proposal?

      “…for choosing … rights …”

      Yes, exactly. How does one live, if one can’t protect ones self? And who’s choice is it?

      The right to live, if everybody else around you agrees? The right to work as you choose, if … everybody around you agrees this is what you should do? The right to the stuff you make, if …. everybody around you agrees you should have it? The right to prepare as you will, but only for stuff that everybody else thinks you should.

      Really, how do we know what it is that “everybody” wants? What is the will of all those people? The insights of the great leader? Any limits on what “we” can impose on “one?” No? Sounds kinda fascist.

      If you are proposing something else, please be clearer. That’s all I can find in what you wrote.

      “If more guns made us safe, We’d be the safest country in the world. But we are not.”

      Per stats cited by Wired Mag last week, the US is #1 on irresponsible citizens autonomously owning guns, and #6 on a cherry-picked stat of gun deaths per capita.

      Seems like we have that “gun safety” thing down pretty good. ‘merica.

      So, we should dispense with the safety training, and discretion among gun owners? What’s the proposal?

      You might want to do a heat map of violence in general, violence with guns, and murders with and without guns, across the US. That’s much more compelling than tables of numbers. Net, there are a small number of localized hot spots.

      If you want the US death rate to go down, maybe we should jettison those hot spots (full of violence, not all that different in gun ownership, actually lower in *lawful* gun ownership than places with a lot less killing.)

      Or maybe get those hot beds of casual killing to be more like the places this doesn’t happen. How to do that, I wonder? Any suggestions?

      “I know what you and people like you Sara are…”

      Personal attack on the writer who’s a woman? I don’t see AmericanAgainstProGunFacism screeding at the male writers hereabouts.

      I can only infer that you’d like the uppity wench to shut up. Or did I misunderstand your piling on her but not the menfolk?

      • “Fascist” is like “racist.”
        It’s what ignorant people call you when they don’t like you.

      • One time, G. Gordon Liddy spoke at the University of Colorado, in one of those old style auditoriums where there is a balcony. A team of the usual leftist suspects at the front edge of that balcony unrolled a large banner calling him a “Facist.”

        He interrupted what he was saying and pointed out it’s spelled “fascist.” They actually were so embarrassed they rolled up the banner and went away. (Today, I doubt they’d care. Correct spelling is something only privileged whites care about.)

        • “Correct spelling is something only privileged whites care about.”

          Only privileged whites over about age 40, or the rare pedant millennial (who is routinely abused by his/her peers for it).

    • “Your beliefs of “democide” and the “evil government” are nothing but a MYTH!!!”

      HAHA.. HAHA… please… HAHAHA… please, stop…. that’s just too funny… HAHA…

    • Government has murdered 262 million people in the 20th century. That’s not counting Wars. I’ll keep my guns let you fend for yourself

  13. Lets be frank about those who are anti-gun & their groups like MDA.

    Yes, while they will tout each mass killing that makes the news as “See!?!?! We’re trying to stop this!!”
    While that PART is perhaps true, that is not the WHOLE GOAL. Its the complete elimination of guns.
    “Mass killings” amount to what? less then 400 people per year? And “assault” weapons account for what about 50 (usually)?

    Obviously, its a red herring.
    This is all about THEM being afraid of the other 8000-9000 killings that MOSTLY happen at the hands of minorities. (FBI/DoJ stats) There is NO WAY in hell they will admit that. They’d rather ban ALL guns than admit that. And be labelled a racist?

    BUT having a calmer head can’t hurt and if you keep your cool maybe when you can’t sway them the least, you will not want to go bang your head against the nearest brick wall.

    Until then, I just try to play “myth busters” with their lies. I can only think I’ve seen ONE person change her mind. She was rational enough to check the facts I was sharing and saw the lies she had been told for just what they were.

    You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink. And holding their head under water until they drown isn’t a good thing either 😉

    Some friends and I will try to talk rationally and calmly and have even gotten SOME to go to the range. Some are now gun owners.

    But a “OMG! Ma Guns!” attitude will only alienate and distance people.

  14. I never debate anti gunners because my tongue gets a life of its own and I always say things I regret later. 🙂

  16. Sara, I haven’t forgotten your announcement awhile back that you would not support Donald Trump. Given the realpolitik of this current election season, your refusal to support Trump tacitly supports Hillary Clinton who’s views on gun-control are rather too obvious for anyone to ignore.

    As far as I’m concerned your political stance vis-a-vis our next president pretty much reduces any defense-of-gun-rights argument you may offer to the status of deck-chair arranging on the Titanic. I’m saddened, but not too surprised, that you don’t know this.

    • I agree. There is a reason the engineering disciplines have a dearth of female participants. Feelings, not logic prevail among the gender.

      • Feelings over logic are only part of the reason. There are many things that keep logical intelligent women from being interested in pursuing many of the hard sciences.

    • She lives in Wyoming. She could vote for Donald Duck and Trump would still carry the state. Voting is the illusion of choice.

      • May be true about her state but her yapping against Trump maybe influenced some weak minded in a more critical state.

        On second thought her influence is probably zero.

  17. Convincing a person to reconsider their anti-gun philosophy would be similarly difficult as convincing a closet progressive that a vote for anyone (or no one) but Trump is a vote for Clinton tyranny . . ain’t that right, Sara?

  18. What I say to gun control advocates is two words, the first of which rhymes with “luck” and the second of which is “you.”

  21. No one is going to mention the holocaust?
    Nazis came to take the Jews to death camps
    Jews appealed to the police
    Police help Nazis
    Bielski brothers take to the woods, arm themselves and save 1,236 Jews
    By fighting back with GUNS!

  22. “It’s almost like they know they’re wrong, but don’t want to admit it. ”
    It’s not ALMOST like that, it’s EXACTLY like that…
    Not that I know any antis. What antis Montana has know better than to say so… except in Missoula and the Flathead Valley where all the Cali transplants are.

  23. I really don’t care what you actually say, but I hope you don’t tell THEM that you aren’t voting for president.

  24. out law the democratic party, problem is they conspire, cover up, and collude sort of like the Joke Justice Department. Federal baby Incinerators, All the F**kups, Bureau of land Mismanagement who Harry Reid has in his back pocket, or IRS getting political, how many Democrats have come to justice this administration? then you have all the Rhinos in office so basically our country is fu888d, illegals voting etc. prepare for the worst which is 4 weeks away!

  25. I’m interested in Sara’s views on vaccinations because public health is a field I’m involved in and I would be curious to know exactly what she doesn’t like about them.

    To make a reply easier I’ve listed a few “truth(s) about vaccines” so it can be a one letter answer to the question (or a more detailed response if desired). So Sara, what is it that you don’t like about vaccines is it:
    a. They are the greatest public health initiative in the modern era (and arguably in all of human history) and they have saved countless lives with their widespread (and at times mandatory) implementation.
    b. It hurts when they put the needle in (if this is the case at least polio can still be eliminated with the oral vaccine).
    c. We have managed to successfully eliminate terrible diseases from the entire human population (such as small pox).
    d. some pommy twat commited fraud, violated medical ethics, and was generally an amoral prick in his attempt to create a market for an alternate MMR vaccine by linking the current one to autism. In this we can either safely ignore his claims after countless studies on millions of children to disprove his fraudulent work or we can conclude that he is in fact being opressed by a worldwide conspiracy of governments, medical professionals & pharmaceutical companies that have colluded to force parents to inject poison into their children for some reason.
    e. A large part of the effectiveness of vaccines in eliminating disease comes from the concept of herd immunity wherein sufficiently high rates of vaccination prevent the spread of disease amongst a population as there are insufficient succeptible hosts that come in contact with sources of infection to allow for pandemic spread of disease.
    f. The above stated concept of herd immunity requires from you, as a presumably responsible and morally upstanding member of society, to be vaccinated (and get your family vaccinated) against all relevant diseases possible in your community so as to assist with the elimination of disease from the population at large (and reduce the risk faced by members of society that can’t be vaccinated or are immunosuppressed).
    g. Vaccines are the safest, most effective and cost effective way of keeping your children from suffering unnecessarily from a huge array of preventable (and potentially fatal) diseases but because the government likes them so much they have to be bad for you somehow.

    In respect to the government invasion into personal lives aspect of it, as far as I’m aware vaccinations are mandatory some parts of the US in the way that they are mandatory over here in Australia in that unless you get a medical doctor to sign off on an exemption on medical grounds for your children then, if they are not kept on the recommended vaccination schedule (or placed on a catch up schedule if they are behind), you don’t get any government tax breaks or benefits for the kids and they can’t attend government run/operated educational facilities. Here in Australia these “No Jab, No Pay” and “No Jab, No Play” policies are increasing vaccination rates in areas where they have dropped off significantly and are well on the way to eliminating (again) measles from the population.

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