AC

There’s at least one source starting to shed some light on what exactly happened inside the church in Charleston, South Carolina earlier tonight. According to their sources (an unnamed NAACP official) the attacker sat down in the church before opening fire, indicating that the attacker may have used a concealed handgun to carry out the attack since a long gun would have raised an alarm earlier. It is illegal to carry a concealed handgun in a church in South Carolina without specific permission from the local clergy, FYI. That NAACP official also claims that the attacker allowed a single survivor to live, specifically so that she could tell others what happened. The incident is the deadliest “mass shooting” since the Navy Yard shooting in 2013, and the current reports state that nine people including the pastor are dead. Also. . .

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Apparently the attacker reloaded multiple times, indicating either an exceedingly poor shot or the use of lower capacity magazines

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118 COMMENTS

  1. Terrible situation, I wish a law-abiding citizen would have been carrying at the time.

    • By definition, he would have been a law-breaking citizen, because it’s illegal to carry in a church there, without special dispensation. And nobody gets that.

      I wish laws didn’t disarm people when they go into densely populated public areas.

        • Yeah, imagine if the attacker pulled out a gun, then everyone in the church pulled out their guns, then they all started shooting… wonder what the outcome would be?

        • Mike and C.S.,

          First of all, if everyone in the church truly were armed, a spree killer would NOT choose that location as a target.

          Second and more importantly, there are only two outcomes when an armed parishioner returns fire on a spree killer:
          (a) The spree killer ignores return fire which makes them an easy target and the return fire stops them within a few seconds, or
          (b) The spree killer recognizes the return fire and engages the armed parishioner which means the spree killer is no longer executing unarmed parishioners.

          Either outcome saves lives.

          And before you claim that an armed parishioner will kill several bystanders, there are two FACTS that soundly refute that claim:
          (a) An armed parishioner is not placing aimed shots at vital areas of bystanders. Therefore any bystanders who take a bullet from an armed parishioner will be taking a bullet in a random location on their body. Such wounds are almost never fatal.
          (b) Armed people have responded to thousands of attacks and virtually never hit bystanders, much less fatally. If this ever happened, the mainstream media would saturate us with it to advance their gun-grabbing agenda. But it doesn’t happen.

        • Except we already have examples of attempted church mass shootings that were stopped by an armed member of the congregation so, yeah.

        • uncommon_sense wrote: “First of all, if everyone in the church truly were armed, a spree killer would NOT choose that location as a target.”

          False. If that were true then James Boulware wouldn’t have attempted an assault on that Dallas police station JUST LAST WEEK! Did you forget already? There is no accounting for crazy. Just go to policemag.com and enter “station attacks” into an article search.

        • How do you say another gun would have it worse? The guy reload FIVE TIMES!!!!!
          Killed 9. After first reload concealed carry person would have had point blank shot. He KNEW church was gun free zone in S.C. which makes it a soft target. I live in Chicago which had over 500 murders. Chicago Tribune stats say 80% of all gun shootings in Chicago either person shot or shooter has criminal record. If u take out that 80% that leaves 100 gun shootings in metropolitan area of 2.5 million. What is that percentage, 100 out of 2.5 million. You not gonna stop psycho from killing. Jail has no guns at all and is one of the most VIOLENT place to be in America. If there were no gun believe me these lunatics would start using homemade bombs which are far more devastating.

      • “Nobody gets that.” Are you saying that this church didn’t give permission? Or, that no church (or only a few churches) give permission?

        In any case, maybe we ought to be making an issue of this. If the leadership of a church won’t arm, e.g., their ushers, then their members must recognize that they are sitting ducks. Either they accept their role as sacrificial lambs – for themselves and their children – or, they begin to question church policy. As membership organizations they are free to do as they choose; but, they are a place to get the discussion going.

      • I only go to a church after I talk to the pastor/preacher to find out if they support the carrying of a defense weapon in church.

        I have no desire to listen to someone preaching the word of the Christ that violates the laws of G-d in such a horrendous and what I consider, sinful way. Yes, sinful way. These supposed men and women of G-d are promoting helplessness in the face of evil. That is evil.

        Luke. Chap. 22, verse- 36. Then he said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack, and he who has no sword, let him sell his his garment and buy one.

        Christ was a peaceful man, not a pacifist.

        • a peaceful man, not a pacifist.

          A distinction lost on far too many people, whether or not they are referring to Jesus.

          • INTERNET LOSER! The 1,000,000,000th person to think scripture means only one thing to all people. The Bible is not written in a literal sense. It is like art. It touches people in different ways. If the spirit in the reader is to believe that the words are to be used for good, then it makes no difference how one is inspired for good. If you read every line in the Bible and it inspires you to feed the hungry, why would argue that the meaning of any given line did not address hunger?

        • INTERNET WNNER! First person to misinterpret the meaning of the scripture.

          And the correct interpretation is??? Typically when you make a claim (or an accusation), you would provide supporting evidence – not an unsubstantiated assertion. Or at the very least an explanation. What’s wrong? Didn’t want to have to defend it?

        • So karlb, here are my thoughts.

          Luke chap. 22, verse 38, So they said “Lord, look, here are two swords” And he said, “It is enough”.

          Actions speak louder than words. At the last supper was two swords. Actual swords, not a figure of speech, not an analogy. When Christ was taken to be judged, one of the disciples cut off the ear of the centurion with a sword, an actual sword. Which Christ said to put back in the sheath, not to put it down.

          During the Christ’s ministry, at least two disciples carried swords, until the very end. If Christ was preaching today, it would be at least two disciples carrying actual pistols, even until Christ was arrested to be judged. Not figurative or allegorical weapons, but real working personal defense weapons.

          So I showed scriptural references for my statements, please show by scripture my misinterpretation of the Christ’s words, and more importantly, his and the disciples actions.

        • You are very correct. That is what Jesus says in Luke. The reason that the swords were being talked about was in response to a prophecy in Isaiah (53:12), for in Luke 22:37, Jesus states “For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels.’ Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.'” Christ’s comments have nothing to do with defense; they have to do with prophecy. If we were to take these passages literally, it would seem to tell us that one weapon per 6.5 person is enough.

          I think we could reasonably read Jesus’ curing of Malchus’ wound a rejection of the idea of his wanting to have the swords there for self defense. He firmly tells the disciples to stop after Malchus had his ear cut off (and kindly replaced by Christ). This is why simply quoting the passage about getting swords comes from not knowing the context of the passage or simply wanting to change the meaning of the passage.

        • I’ll guess the karlb likes the old incorrect “Thou shalt not kill” vs the correct translation “Thou shalt not murder”.

          I don’t really give a hoot though as the 2nd is the only one that makes a lick of sense or matters.

        • Well, thank you karlb for for explaining your perspective. But this is also why I say that that the Christ was a peaceful man, not a pacifist. If given the chance, he preserves life,even of those intent on doing him harm. But the examples you gave does not, for me, take away the actions of the fact that there were two actual swords at the last supper, that in the verse Luke chap. 22 verse-36 he is giving practical advice for once Christ had risen, wearing sandals, having a knapsack, selling your cloak to buy a sword. That at least two disciples carried swords during his ministry.

          So I am curious how you would explain these actions and advice by Christ to buy a sword by saying he actually did not mean for his disciples and future Christians NOT to carry weapons for self -defense.

        • Oops! Double negative.

          “So I am curious how you would explain these actions and advice by Christ to buy a sword by saying he actually meant for his disciples and future Christians NOT to carry weapons for self -defense.”

        • ThomasR, where I would disagree with you is in the tense. Christ was not speaking in the future tense. He meant that they had to have at least one sword at that time so the prophecy from Isaiah would be fulfilled. He was not talking about the future, the post Christ rising from the grave eventuality. I have never heard that interpretation of the passage. I am wondering where you came across this reading of the text. Thank you for the very respectful tone you have taken in this discussion. It is nice to participate in such a reasoned disagreement.

        • It’s not a pacifist that will grab strands/cords and make their own whip then drive merchants out of a temple.

          Matthew 21:12–17, 21:23–27; Mark 11:15–19, 11:27–33; Luke 19:45–48, 20:1–8; John 2:13–16

        • Will, I have never claimed Jesus was a pacifist. I am discussing an interpretation of tense, prophecy, and swords. I am not sure where you got that from my postings.

          By the way, ThomasR, Shakespeare and Chaucer used double negatives all the time. Back in the good old days, before asshats messed with the organic nature of the language and tried to apply both Latin and mathmatical rules to English, negatives were added together, not multiplied, so three or four negatives in a sentence simply meant that it was really bad or that the person would never ever do something.

        • My interpretation of the acceptance of the every day carrying of swords is in the actions of the disciples.

          Then there is the Christs statement to the disciples in Luke, ch.22, verse 35. And he said to them ” When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack in anything? So they said “nothing”. Then Christ goes onto verse 36.

          I interpret this as what life will be like after he has risen, of life on the road spreading the word. Not being preoared for the one time event of when he is arrested to be judged.

        • After all. You don’t need a knap sack, money bag, sandals, cloak and a sword for allowing the Christ to be arrested to be judged then crucified. But you would need them for a long journey on the road.

    • I live in SC and myself and 7 other members of our church carry. Its legal in SC with the permission of the pastor.

        • As he was a Senator… what’s to say that our killer didn’t actually have a job: assassination. I have no evidence of this mind you, but it wouldn’t be the first time an assassination was covered up within a mass killing.

          One thing I’ve learned, and also have other sources show me too, is that the media WILL lie to us. They’ll lie just about anything if it suits their purpose. I’ve talked to one person who was stationed overseas in the past in an area where a bloody battle was supposed to have taken place. Said bloody battle was news to him as he witnessed no signs of such an event.

  3. This is why lawful citizens carry. Gun control supporters think nothing bad could EVER happen in a location they deem safe, that crime only happens in the hood or the shady parts of town.

    Doesn’t matter if it’s a church, the store, gas station, flea market, ATM. It can happen anywhere. To someone wishing to do harm to others, signs don’t matter, carry laws don’t matter, NO laws matter. It is impossible to read a potential murderer’s mind or predict the future, it is best to be prepared.

  4. Carry a gun anyway! Another “gun free zone” shooting. It also appears this young monster was known to this church. Sad and lame at the same time…my late BLACK mother-in-law was a pastor of a church-in Chicago. SHE always had a gun with her-in CHICAGO.

  5. The old “judged by twelve/carried by six” conundrum. Is it a misdemeanor or a felony to carry concealed w/o pastoral consent in South Carolina?

  6. I’m actually grieving over this tragedy that you NRA “pro-gun” extremists caused and you disgusting extremists are dancing in the blood of the victims.

    Why are we surprised gun-nuts? This is what you get when you have in your nation’s outdated Constitution the right for anyone to have unfettered access to deadly weapons called firearms and our spineless politicians refuse to change the law due to the terrorists of the NRA and the tyrannical gun lobby. The problems will only get worse as long as there is lax gun laws due to the 2nd Amendment. I’m actually worried about having a greater chance of being killed in a shopping mall or a church than being imprisoned by a “tyrannical” government. You gun-nuts are the reason the world shakes it’s head at shame at this great country.

    Please Gun-nut’s Please?; How are safer civilized and better educated nations like the European Union, Australia and Japan considered tyranny to you sickos? Answer, They’re not because they have very strict gun control laws and the people of these countries value human life, Something we should have had in the first place?

    When will the madness called “gun-right” end?

    When?

    Now I will grieve in peace as you disgusting gunophiles dance on the graves of the people who didnt deserve this use this as some sick perverse and twisted mentality for your politics.

    • “I’m actually worried about having a greater chance of being killed in a shopping mall or a church than being imprisoned by a “tyrannical” government.” Each of us is entitled to his own choice of fears and phobias. My recommendation for you is to stay away from malls; shop in little mom & pop shops. Pray at home.

      I’m sure that you will reciprocate by granting respect to others who, like me, have read Rummel’s Death by Government. A democide is a truly awesome experience for its victims and perpetrators alike. Perhaps you advocate a really justifiable democide when perpetrated by a legitimate state, such as ISIS.

    • See VivaLaSatire. This is the problem. Because I see you and people that believe like you as being evil. Pure, undiluted evil.

      You promote the primacy of the state over individual freedom, personal responsibility and self-authority.

      And the results are as shown. Germany was considered the heights of progressive government and societal policies. Until a mad man and his useful idiots took control of the state apparatus and then passed laws to legally commit the atrocities of fifteen million murdered.

      Stalin, Mao, Pol-pot. Over a hundred million murdered by the state controlled apparatus. In our own country, over fifty million of the unborn murdered as a “right”.

      There is evil in the world VivaLaSatire, and you, and people like you want my family, my friends, my fellow human beings helpless, defenseless and vulnerable to any evil that other human predators, whether in the street or in government wish to inflict on us.

      So no, VivaLaSatire, the evil isn’t that bad people desires to their last breath to impose tyranny upon us by any means necessary. The true evil is that you want to disarm the good people in the face of such proven blood thirsty madness.

      So look in the mirror VivaLaSatire, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, leading to blood soaked savagery.

      • The 50 million murdered unborn – those who condone it do not recognize the unborn as being a life, or worse, do not care.

        • This is why massacres happen for those that have survived the womb. There are people that can look at another human being and not see someone that is human. Just as someone can only see a fetus and not a baby.

    • Viva. If you really believe what you have written, here is my suggestion. Go out and organize a change to the constitution. As it sits now, people have the constitutional right to own weapons. Your attack on the 2nd is as damning as the attacks that exist on the 1st, the 4th, the 5th, the 14th, and so on. This is a republic. Do not trample of the foundational laws of the nation because you do not think they are safe. Change them, and until you can get those changes passed, please stop showing such disrespect for the constitution.

      • Absolutely correct.
        Did Miranda’s right to not incriminate himself have public safety risks? After he was released (upon his 2’nd conviction) he was arrested for illegal gun possession. Eventually, he was killed in a bar fight.

        Does the right to speech, press, assembly or religion have public safety risks? E.g., the Chicago Tribune published reports of intelligence known to be available prior to the decisive defeat of the Japanese at Midway Island. Nothing but good luck stood in the way of the Japanese inferring that the Imperial Navy cyphers had been compromised.

        Does the protection against unreasonable searches and seizures prevent law enforcement from discovering contraband or fugitives?

        Most of the rights protected by the BoR and other Constitutional provisions involve a trade-off of public safety for other important goals. If any one of them can be diluted they are all in jeopardy. The only legitimate way to establish a rebalancing of Constitutionally-guaranteed rights is to put the proposition forth as a proposed Amendment.

        • Exactly! Living is dangerous, and living in a republic is fraught with perils–to the individuals and to the nation. If we give away our freedoms, what do we have left? If we support torture to keep us safe, we have lost our moral foundation. If we give away the right to speak out against oppression, the right to defend ourselves, the right to be secure from the government in our homes, then we live in a nation that does not deserve to exist.

    • And I’ve sat with my mother and looked through her wedding photos, when she started to point out the people who were disappeared or murdered by the government. Brazilians in the 1960s couldn’t imagine anything like that ever happening to them. But it did. There’s nothing stopping it from happening here, and a disarmed people would make it much easier.

      • But, but, but . . . Brazil is sooooo far away! That could never happen here! Why even the 43 Normal School students were disappeared only in Southern Mexico; such a thing would never happen just over the boarder in Ciudad Juarez or Nuevo Laredo. Apart from the occasional boarder guard or helicopter, US territory is entirely Fortress America.

    • The “narrative” is not fact. Please do some research and critical thinking before you cut and paste this same nonsensical post three or four times. The NRA didn’t kill those people, an individual that does not value human life did this. It’s disgusting, but gun owners are not responsible for this event. Bad things can’t be 100% prevented and the methods that people tried in the past, stricter gun control, didn’t work. Just look at the Charlie Hebdo attacks. Gun bans just create longer supply lines to get the guns, but the guns don’t dissapear.

      • Gun control really stopped the events that happened in France not all that long ago…. oh wait…. despite gun control the terrorists got them and used them.

    • Your feelings are overpowering your reason. You automatically blame the gun, and by extension all gun owners for all tragedies committed with a gun. You incorrectly lump all gun owners with your pejorative “gun nuts” and draw a dividing line between the “good” ( yourself ) and the evil ( all gun owners ).

      You also then incorrectly assume that the removal of guns, by some magical unicorn riding fairy will automatically bestow a Utopian society where no one ever dies, no one ever gets hurt.

      I recognize it’s a waste of my time to try to separate these conflated thoughts in your head. You are a product of years of progressive indoctrination in school and the media, so you can’t step outside of your feelings and use rational approach to the problem.

      You are happy and warm in your illusion and no amount of cold facts, logic or history will pull you kicking and screaming from your cocoon of fantasy.

      You’re the exact kind of person that will be forced to march into the camps with an incredulous look on your face while bleating.. ” but.. but .. this can’t ever happen?!?!”

      I pity you.

    • I missed where the NRA, or any other legitimate gun rights group, advocated the harming of innocent people. Perhaps you could provide some evidence to support your bold claim.

    • “It is illegal to carry a concealed handgun in a church in South Carolina without specific permission from the local clergy, FYI.”

      Your kind have roles in these atrocities, gun grabber.

      • My brother and his family live in Conway, SC. He is one of several people in his church that are armed and scattered about the church during services. I believe in divine intervention. I also believe GOD can guide someone’s hand to to help deliver JHP’s directly to the source of evil.

    • “Common sense” gun control laws enabled a sick bastard to murder 9 disarmed victims, yet again in a defenseless-victim free-fire area you FLAME DELETED call a “gun-free zone.” Had even one of the victims been armed, this atrocity could have been prevented.

    • Please show me the statistics of NRA members murdering people. Law abiding citizens are not the problem.

    • It is shocking and saddening to hear about this shooting. Condolences to the families and friends and community that suffered this atrocity.

      To compound the tragedy is that the biggest take away from the murder of 8 people is to fall back on misguided hatred of the NRA.

    • Don’t feed the troll. Willy never posts facts, he just spews leftist propaganda. Judging by his writing, I suspect he is between 14 and 21, which really says a lot about him.

  8. Even though I don’t attend church regularly…. I know of congregations around here (AL) where the folks who aren’t packin’ heat in the pews are solidly outnumbered by those who do. Come to think of it, I can’t recall any businesses or churches still open that have a “No Guns” sign posted.
    Whenever something like this mass-murder happens, I try to think of what would happen if some madmen tried that here; while they might kill a couple people immediately, the perpetrators definitely wouldn’t have long to live. If return-fire didn’t drop them shortly after, there are a lot of deep, dark holes to get thrown into; figuratively & literally.

    • The church I attend has the signs posted which, here in IL, have force of law. I go into the building a couple times a week for various reasons and it pains me every time to see those signs. I constantly ask myself the question whether I should break the law and carry anyway.

      Also, there are several ex-military, active LEOs, and others who I know who have paid the bribe to get the permission slip to carry. I have never had the guts to put them in the position where they have to lie to me if I ask them if they’re carrying in the building despite the signs. (Some can carry legally given their exemption in the law due to active LEO status. Still don’t know if they do, but I hope so.)

      The antis like to wring their hands and lament how guns are bad and then wail about how the laws are “common sense” and “for the protection of the children” and so on. Every time I drop my son off at our church for their weekly youth group gathering, I pray that someone there is packing. One nut-job who decides to walk into the parking lot and start shooting is all it’ll take. And, if everyone is following the law, they have zero means by which to “protect the children.”

      I’ll never understand the antis. As has been stated on this site many times, they seem unwilling to let facts and logic get int the way of a good emotional rant.

      I also haven’t had the guts to have a heart-to-heart with any of the leadership there to ask why they are putting the congregation at risk by forcing them to choose between obeying the law and protecting themselves and their family.

      • “I also haven’t had the guts to have a heart-to-heart with any of the leadership there to ask why they are putting the congregation at risk by forcing them to choose between obeying the law and protecting themselves and their family.”

        Ask your church for a copy of their member directory.

        Write your concerns in a letter and anonymously mail every member of the congregation.

        If signs don’t have force of law, concealed means concealed.

      • I live in Illinois too…GO TO A DIFFERENT CHURCH! Lith…unless it’s some bizarre cult there’s a better one nearby. Been a believer more than 40 years-and I’ve left a few when they devolved into weirdness. Your life and your family is YOUR responsibilty.

  9. To any all effected another huge tragedy, So Sorry!!!
    In the above comment though it is…Nice to see another liberal out to LunchMeat comment.. When will these self absorbed social misfits grasp the reality of identifying the Crimanal element and there choices to commit such heinous Acts as the Soul Fact of the matter.. It wasn’t the NRA, The Second Amendment or That firearm that committed this act or any other like it. It was the NutJob loosed on Society that committed This Act!!
    Get Real and Get a Life!!

    • You gun nuts caused this.

      Meanwhile the vile NRA celebrates another milestone in causing senseless tragedies in the name of “gun rights”.

      How come europe, australia and japan does’nt have the problems like we do?

      Oh wait, They`ve strict gun control and they’re much safer.

      No wonder the civilized world looks down at us with shame.

      When will the madness end gun-extremists? When?

      • Couldn’t even wait for the bodies to cool could ya?

        We don’t even know specifics yet, how you can you possibly pin this on gun policy without even knowing enough to know if any specific law would’ve prevented this?

      • Yes, blame all of us for the actions of an idiotic few.

        The Czech Republic rarely has this problem, neither does New Zealand or Italy, and they don’t have the strict gun laws of your favorite nations.

        The Czech Republic allows you to get guns easier than most European countries, has no restrictions on magazines or semi autos, and has a CCW permit system similar to the US, with almost no gun free zones.

        New Zealand and Italy likewise don’t have any bans on semi autos and large magazines, let alone Switzerland as well.

        Your move.

        • I’m appalled that there are only 90 guns per 100 residents here in the US.

          He describes it as a glorious first, but in fact it just means we’re less f-d up than anywhere else.

      • When will senseless killings end Lunch_meat? When evil no longer resides in the heart of Man.

        European gun laws garnered them :
        Charlie Hebo in France by Muslim Extremists.
        The brutal hacking to death by Muslim Extremists In the UK while unarmed citizens stood and watched.

        If the world looks at us in shame then it’s people can stop coming to our shores illegally in droves if it is so wonderful abroad.

      • Doesn’t happen in Europe?

        Zug, Switzerland, Sept. 27, 2001: A man whose lawsuits had been denied murdered 14 members of a cantonal parliament.

        Tours, France, Oct. 29, 2001: Four people were killed and ten wounded when a French railway worker started shooting at a busy intersection.

        Nanterre, France, March 27, 2002: A man killed eight city-council members after a council meeting.

        Erfurt, Germany, April 26, 2002: A former student killed 18 at a secondary school.

        Freising, Germany, Feb. 19, 2002: Three people killed and one wounded.

        Turin, Italy, Oct. 15, 2002: Seven people killed on a hillside overlooking the city.

        Madrid, Spain, Oct. 1, 2006: A man killed two employees and wounded another at a company that had fired him.

        Emsdetten, Germany, Nov. 20, 2006: A former student murdered eleven people at a high school.

        Tuusula, Finland, Nov. 7, 2007: Seven students and the principal killed at a high school.

        Naples, Italy, Sept. 18, 2008: Seven dead and two seriously wounded in a public meeting hall.

        Kauhajoki, Finland, Sept. 23, 2008: Ten people shot to death at a college.

        Winnenden, Germany, March 11, 2009: A 17-year-old former student killed 15 people, including nine students and three teachers.

        Lyon, France, March 19, 2009: Ten people injured when a man opened fire on a nursery school.

        Athens, Greece, April 10, 2009: Three people killed and two injured by a student at a vocational college.

        Rotterdam, Netherlands, April 11, 2009: Three people killed and one injured at a crowded café.

        Vienna, Austria, May 24, 2009: One dead and 15 wounded in an attack on a Sikh temple.

        Espoo, Finland, Dec. 31, 2009: Four people shot to death at a mall.

        Cumbria, England, June 2, 2010: Twelve killed by a British taxi driver.

        Utøya, Norway, July 22, 2011: Anders Breivik uses a car bomb, then shoots and kills 67.

        And that’s just the last 15 years.

        • If it’s not too much additional trouble, could you please provide a comprehensive list of all the DGUs in these same countries? Hope it doesn’t take too much time out of your day.

        • MarkPA,

          The number of defensive gun uses in those countries is going to be zero … or at least so low as to be zero for statistical purposes.

          • No kidding! Who would have thunk!
            So, let me see if I get this straight:
            – America has lots of killings, petty and grand; and, America has lots of DGUs;
            – Europe has killings too, petty and grand; and, Europeans are just SOL in being able to defend themselves.

            So, obviously, we should be like Europe; we too could enjoy lots of killings but be free from the burden of defending ourselves. What a progressive idea!

      • Willy, say whatever you want if it makes you feel better, because I don’t really give a shit. But the simple fact of the matter is that the NRA, God, white/black/green/whatever, Europe/The South/whatever, has nothing to do with this. Only humans (note I did not say just men) harbor hate and evil in their hearts. It’s up to good folks to defend themselves from evil, no more, no less. You might want to work on your own little hate and evil problem before it gets out of hand, if you know what I mean. Have a nice day now, ya hear?

        Tom

      • Well willy, for one thing you can’t just make guns disappear. 350000000 guns. Maybe if we never had guns you might (might) have a point that no guns are a good thing but you wish for a fictional universe. Guns are here and bad guys have them. Just deal with it.

      • We’ll give up our guns when fascist pieces of shit like you kill yourselves and rid this world of the kind of villainy we need protection from.

      • Congratulations, Wily, nice troll. Feel important now? Heard? Noticed? Yeah … Nice for you.

        To those who responded … Congratulations you’re giving him exactly the attention he desires.

      • When comments are made with hate and prejudice they tell more about the commenter than those they wrongfully vilify.

      • Well Willy, why doesn’t Switzerland have these problems either? (In fact, being the safest major country in Europe.)

        • Zug, Switzerland, Sept. 27, 2001: A man whose lawsuits had been denied murdered 14 members of a cantonal parliament.

      • You gun nuts caused this.

        The one personally responsible… lunchmeat… is the one that did the shooting. If I honked my horn at a stop light and that caused a guy to run through the light and he ran over a bug and that bug grossed out a little girl later that afternoon which in turn caused her mom to remember to call the exterminator and the exterminator killed someone with his car on the way over – is that my fault? Please understand that “society” is not at fault here and place responsibility where it is due rather than embrace freedom-hating collectivism.

        Meanwhile the vile NRA celebrates another milestone in causing senseless tragedies in the name of “gun rights”.

        That’s nonsense. But you would like everyone to believe that right? Mr. Agenda?

        How come europe, australia and japan does’nt have the problems like we do?

        Violence problems? You mean like these:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre
        https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Akihabara_massacre

        Don’t get me started on Europe. Please get your facts straight and step out of your delusions.

        Oh wait, They’ve strict gun control and they’re much safer.

        You mean like a difference of 4 people per 100,000? It’s not very much. I could also say that Japan is a homogeneous culture really – the US is not. We are a melting pot of all cultures. That creates differences. Differences is why we have the bill of rights – so we could all enjoy freedom and tolerate our differences. Maybe you should exercise some tolerance rather than intolerantly trying to remove those rights as listed in the bill of rights that we all enjoy. If you hate the bill of rights, maybe Europe or Japan is better suited to you.

        No wonder the civilized world looks down at us with shame.

        Who specifically is looking down at us with shame? You mean the freedom-hating collectivists in Europe and Australia, etc? Every country has their coo-coos right?

        When will the madness end gun-extremists? When?

        You tell me. (See japan massacre links above where they didn’t use any guns). Doesn’t look like guns has anything to do with it.

      • Let’s see …

        Japan has a higher suicide rate than the United States.

        Most countries in Europe have a higher violent crime rate than the United States.

        Exactly what is the problem in the United States that doesn’t exist in other countries?

  10. We’ve talked a lot on this site about the importance of branding and marketing to appeal to low information and emotional voters. I’ve been using the term “massacre magnets” to describe GFZs, specifically linking the two phrases to get my point across. I’ve found it to be pretty effective. Any thoughts?

  11. Why do Mexico, Brazil, and Russia have WORSE problems with violence than we do? They have strict gun control, too.

  12. This is precisely why I carry every Sunday @ church. My pastor has received death threats. Fortunately, the church also put me over security.

    • Exactly. I also carry in church just like I carry everywhere else. Where large groups of peaceable people gather, some moron will see that as a juicy target. I have no intention of being a target nor letting any of my church family be a target.

  13. Still need more information….. 5 reloads for 8 dead? One left to tell the others? There is something still a bit fishy in the reporting around this story.

  14. … It is illegal to carry a concealed handgun in a church in South Carolina without specific permission from the local clergy, FYI. …

    Do you mean to say, this person violated the law?

  16. Dude looks just like Lanza.
    I bet there’s a connection to being a murderous numb-nuts and being a lanky pasty bitch with a bowl cut.

    • That resemblance could be deliberate. Our culture and media seems to have perversely and unintentionally created a set of standards and norms around the use of mass murder almost as a sort of performance art. With the amount of attention given to Sandy Hook, it wouldn’t surprise me to see others copying Lanza’s ‘look’.

  17. My money’s on a false flag. Antis and psycho mass murderers share the same mental profile and there’s not a doubt in my mind that one of them would perpetrate something like this to “prove” his sick agenda’s point. Him wanting the survivor to tell everyone what happened supports this.

    • The guy seems to have been known by the church and was praying with the members. I’m thinking sicko. That’s the worst thing possible, you can track the haters and criminals but the sickos are hard to nail down.

    • Don’t need one. It is illegal to carry a gun in a church without explicit permission from the church. Perhaps they need to host seminars for those who plan to commit murder so that they know where they can and cannot legally carry weapons.

      • Maybe we should look at GFZ signs in a new way.

        How about sending two gunnies to a public school board meeting. One guy gets up and proposes that the board authorize money to put GFZ signs on all the doors to the school(s). The other guy gets up and points out that to be effective, these signs need to be really big and really strongly worded. The two of them get into a roiling debate as to what will make the signs more effective; with periodic cries of “it’s for the children!” Have their wives attend and clutch their pearls.

        Obviously, the histrionics can be elaborated with more players and more points (e.g., citing schools where shootings occurred that were not protected by signs.)

        It ought to begin to dawn on the attendees that signs are not the answer they would purport to be. The board, of course, knows this and is expressing no enthusiasm for any proposal to spend money (which should be spent on salaries and redecorating the staff lounge) on useless signs.

        • You gave me an idea. Take 10 ft x 10ft 2″ steel plate write “no guns” on them then weld them solid all around said area. They can’t say they didn’t know and can’t shoot through. This idea will make me rich.

      • BTW, that was sarcasm. It stripped off the sarcasm warning at the end when I posted my message.

  19. Pray for the families for Evil harbors no prejudice in its victims. The St. James Massacre in Capetown South, Africa killed 11 and wounded 58 at a Sunday evening church youth service. Charl Van Wyk, a Christian Missionary and legal concealed carry permittee, interrupted the 4 attackers with a 5 shot .38 Special. Although Van Wyk thought he missed, he wounded one BODY ARMOR wearing attacker, upset their plan and the attackers with FULLY automatic AK47’s broke off the attack saving many more lives.

    South Africa regulates and licenses ALL firearms. A permit is required for every firearm.

    Be prepared! Train. Carry everywhere all the time. Defend the innocent!

  20. I recently helped teach a firearms class for a group of people from a church. The preacher was one of the attendees, and I discovered that he carries whenever he leaves the house. I left that day knowing that if I ever turn to religion, I know what kind of church I am willing to attend.

  22. What is term for the mental illness gun hating liberals suffer from? Is there a clinical term for the mentally defunct that ascribe agency and motive to inanimate objects?

    How can you claim sanity while suggesting that an object possesses consciousness, and is targeting you for persecution or malicious intent? Is it the moving parts that tricked you? That time the stove burned you was because it’s inherently evil, right?

    The closest thing I’ve ever experienced to this psychosis is working with my computer. Rest assured, I am not under the illusion that it is “alive” even though I flippantly mention that it’s the spawn of Satan. The frequent hiccups are not “behavior”, and I can’t reasonably ascribe malice to it even when these interactions frustrate me.

    For the utopian liberals that hate guns, know this: inanimate objects that mimic behavior are constructs. They are the combination or arrangement of parts in a structured or logical fashion. Siri is a construct. Household appliances are a construct. Firearms are a construct. They are NOT sentient.

    It’s people that are evil. People are the perpetrators of malicious reasoning, intent and action. Get that through your empty head. By suggesting that firearms are evil, you have taken complete leave of your most rudimentary capacities for reason, and have lost touch with reality.

    That is, by definition, a symptom of psychosis; one for which you desperately need treatment for. I’m not saying it will be easy, but with counseling and medication, you just might join the ranks of the rational and cognizant.

    • Maybe the way to deal with this is to publish a list of inanimate objects that kill:

      – Poisons XX,XXX
      – Cars XX,XXX
      – Pools XX,XXX
      – . . .
      – Guns XX,XXX
      – Bicycles X,XXX

      • Maybe – we would need to list them in crayon for a few people, and remind them they all require some level of interaction to bring about one’s demise. Life involves risk – the attrition rate for life is always 100%. The cruelest delusion of the liberal is that we can live in a pain and risk free utopia while we’re here – cruel because it’s unattainable.

  23. “spineless politicians refuse to change the law due to the terrorists of the NRA and the tyrannical gun lobby.”

    Spineless because they know if they infringe on citizens rights they’re out of a job.

    • It takes a special kind of idiot to think it’s the tyrants that are preventing the government from taking away people’s protection against tyrants.

  25. I think as more facts are uncovered about the killer, it will come to light that he was known to be mentally ill, and nothing was done about it because our mental health laws have been so watered down as to be ineffective. Where we used to be able to detain someone for a 3 day psychological evaluation, we can’t, unless they are an immediate threat to themselves or others. How many more people have to be murdered before we change those laws back? We can’t just keep blaming inanimate objects, sooner or later we need to recognize it is the mentally ill that are to blame, and they use cars, knives, bats, etc.

    • Careful what you wish for. The government would love nothing more than to detain you for evaluation because you must be insane for disagreeing with their policies or liking guns. Then, guess what, because you were involuntarily detained in an institute, no more guns for you.

    • Quite correct. The Progressive agenda is to keep the violent mentally ill, criminals and illegal aliens at liberty to jeopardize everyone else. So long as we can’t reverse these aspects of the Progressive agenda we must take refuge in the right of self-defense guaranteed to us by the 2A.

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