‘We don’t get to violate people’s constitutional rights because somebody in our chain of command tells us otherwise. It’s not now this country works.’
Port of Seattle police officer Greg Anderson posted the following video to Instagram last week. His message in support of individual rights was obviously prompted by coronavirus restrictions on travel, association and other freedoms imposed by state and local governments. But his message applies equally to restrictions on Second Amendment rights.
Here’s that video:
View this post on Instagram
Officer Anderson’s video has been viewed hundreds of thousands of times and drew the attention of his commanders in the police force. They asked him — then ordered him — to take the video down. He refused and has been placed on administrative leave.
‘Greg, If you openly defy your governor, you can’t be a police officer in the State of Washington.’
Yesterday Anderson posted this video:
View this post on Instagram
As Anderson wrote:
I’ve received tons of questions regarding my termination from the Port of Seattle Police. So I figured I should explain. I have been placed on administrative leave (still being paid) pending investigation. I was told by both the agency and my union that this will result in termination due to it being an insubordination charge for refusing to take down the video. I’m not sure what the timeline looks like. I walk un-intimidated into the fray. Thank you for all the support.
A GoFundMe page has been set up to benefit Officer Anderson that has far exceeded the original goal. Something tells us that Officer Anderson will land on his feet.
Well, it’s Seattle. What do you expect?
What you DON’T expect in Seattle is a cop that actually believes in the Constitution and even more rare, one that is willing to speak out in opposition to those in a higher paygrade than he…
To be fair, he’s Port of Seattle, which is kind of its own thing that Seattle generally doesn’t bother acknowledging, given that it’s full of people who work for a living. You know, the poors.
Then he is just insignificant noise, I get it…
“You know, the poors.”
Well, he isn’t any more.
As of 12 midnight tonight, that account has generated $309,000.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-officer-anderson?fbclid=IwAR24Kpq4SczjPZyrmwW4dkeJmsrH9CbLxgCDQJomhQdab_UR3jeXvU93hNQ
If they fire him, and I expect they likely will, over one million could be generated.
I hope a LE agency that respects civil rights will hire him…
I need a high profile spat with the left so I can get some of that sympathy money. That hairdresser that went to jail is sitting pretty now.
“That hairdresser that went to jail is sitting pretty now.”
The GoFundMe campaign—run by a group calling themselves “Woke Patriots”—was created on April 23, one day before Luther reopened her salon. “We researched her and her cause,” campaign organizer Rick Hire wrote on the page, “and decided that we would approach her and offer to support her as our first patriot cause. She accepted our offer.”… “That hairdresser”, Shelley Luther is her name, is also a small business owner and employer of several other “hairdressers”. She has stated in an interview on Fox News that she plans to use the money to start a charitable foundation…. It will be interesting to see what the cop does with his windfall… https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/dallas-salon-arrest-gofundme/
I just sent a donation to the GoFundMe page for him. While technically he can be terminated for such an open insubordination, he’s reminding everyone that the orders his superiors are giving him are unconstitutional, so he (and people like him) need to know they can stand for the Constitution with the support of true Patriots.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-officer-anderson?utm_source=customer&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_campaign=m_pd+share-sheet
Hmm, seems to me defiance of an unlawful order is not insubordination. Does his employer have a right to deny him his First amendment right?
Could he use the proceeds of his gofundme account to hire a solid legal team that would potentially make this a win for everyone?
The biggest problem I see if he did it in uniform and could give the wrong impression for the department. More or less if your dressed up in the uniform your expected to be a good little storm trooper. If he did it dressed in street clothes it would be harder to make a case.
After the civil war the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that no one could restrict the people’s freedoms and to do so was an declaration of war on the constitution it self and so anyone that took an oath to defend it should just sa3
The First Amendment doesn’t apply to a company’s social media policy. If he created the video while on duty and in a department video, like in the picture on top, then he’s in the wrong even though what he said is 100% right. If he posted this video off duty then he’s probably got a legal case against the department. I’m not creating an Instagram account just to try and see this video so I don’t know if he was on duty or not.
*Technically* they’re going to fire him for making a video, in uniform and in a department vehicle, without department authorization. In reality he’s getting fired for the content of his speach. If he made the same video, without department authorization, defending the lockdown, then he’d probably be promoted.
Most departments have rules and policies that make everything unauthorized, which will give the department a pretext to fire anybody on a whim by sidestepping the REAL reasons for termination. The laws are inching that direction every day. It’s an other 1984’ish feature where there are no laws because everything is illegal and nothing illegal, but everybody knows when they are doing “wrong”.
But we all know it’s always wrong to speak against the government. Everything else is subjective…
Most accredited police departments have a catch all rule, conduct unbecoming of a police officers it’s grounds for termination. Anything that embarrass’s the department..
Public employees have limited first amendment rights. Its been long established that when representing their employer through implication their rights to free speech are limited. If I say “I am an employee of X agency and I believe Y” my rights are limited. If he was not in uniform and did not mention he was a police officer and gave his private views then he’d have much broader protection.
There is well over a century of established case law about that. If he were employed by a private company there’d be no 1st amendment implications at all because it doesn’t cover the actions of a private party, only the government not infringing your speech. But a government entity can absolutely tell one of their employees they can’t participate in speech that is disfavored by said government agency if they are in any way implying there is some kind of representation to that agency.
If the FDA comes out and says our scientific evidence says tofu is bad for you, but you have an FDA employee saying “I work for the FDA and tofu is good for you!” that is in conflict with what your agency is saying and you are implicitly saying you work for said agency. That isn’t protected speech.
Unless I’ve missed something he has a duty to follow the law and also obey his superiors. He believes that is in conflict now. So him losing his job seems to be the expect thing if he really believes he is following the law. His course of action should be to resign and file suit to have a court establish that he is in fact attempting to follow the law.
I suspect a court won’t support his interpretation of the law as governors in most states have broad powers to do exactly what they are doing. Much more so than the federal government does (state executives have broad police powers that the federal government does not have).
“I suspect a court won’t support his interpretation of the law as governors in most states have broad powers to do exactly what they are doing. Much more so than the federal government does (state executives have broad police powers that the federal government does not have).”
This is the very essence of “federalism”, the intent of the framers of the constitution. The States (capital “S” at the founding) retained all power not specifically delegated to the federal government.
Matt,
Your FDA analogy isn’t apples-to-apples with this Seattle PD situation. Disagreements over the health benefits of tofu is not the same as violations of constitutionally-protected rights.
Mark N
I believe you are correct. In my opinion this would fall under the “whistleblower” protection clause we have heard so much about on the news, and if he is terminated for calling out “rouge” law enforcement personnel, rampant wrongdoing, and telling the TRUTH, he can sue the pants off his “employers”
The “I was just following orders” EXCUSE, has been used to too long, for the wrong purposes.
I donated as well, can’t believe they were looking for such a small amount $50k. Keep the money going to let others know they will not stand alone!
So did I. This guy deserves it.
It also makes me wonder about all the discussion we and a lot of others have had about how many of our LEO’s will follow orders to do things they KNOW are unconstitutional. Like firearm confiscation. Most people say that “90% of them on our side, and they’d never do it”. I say bullshit. 90% WILL do it and the other 10% are like Greg. At best.
…’nuff said!…
He took the King’s shilling.
Its his duty to defy the government if the orders are unlawful, that’s kind of how its supposed to work. Illegal orders can’t be enforced if there is no one willing to enforce them.
G.Anderson’s supervisor / CO / whatever, needs to be FIRED, and Anderson be given the position. Cops are already on the ****list for a lot of Americans, if that is to change then they need better ones who uphold their oaths like this one in power.
Bingo.
Maybe it slide into the Pacific Ocean along with the rest of the West coast !!
Poor Seattle, used to be a decent city…now basically a Liberal-shite-hole. People are leaving in droves.
I left three years ago for Missouri. Best move I ever made.
Politically, Seattle controls the state through the initiative process. If Seattle wants something, they have the numbers to pass an initiative to get it on the ballot, and the numbers to pass (or kill) anything they want on the ballot through sheer force of numbers. Washington state is a study in miniature of why the electoral college is necessary.
Culturally, it went from a counter-culture of anti-authoritarians smoking weed (which I’m fine with, because libertarian) and going to drag shows to (true story) drag queens smoking weed and telling an audience straight-up “if you don’t raise your hand when I ask who’s voting for Clinton, you might not make it out of here alive.” One of our longest friends (up to this point, anyway) had no problem coming to my home, eating my food, and then launching in an invective against gun owners and “there’s no such thing as a reasonable gun owner”, while knowing full well I made my living teaching firearms handling and safety. It’s not his (poor) opinion that bothered me, it what the chutzpah of doing it at my dining table – my southern sense of hospitality was rather offended by that.
When we told people we were moving, people (in both places) went “But WHY?!?” “Because we don’t feel welcome in Seattle any more.” So many people then proceeded to tell us why that was wrong and selfish of us, but exactly one person came to help us pack, and only that one guy has even maintained communication with us.
How typical for libtards to accuse you of being “selfish” for leaving a place where crapping on the sidewalk is viewed as an honorable act signifying one’s victim status as an economically oppressed person.
Don’t forget the lovley smell of vomit when you walk downtown before the rainy season or the ambulances pulling up and giving a heroin overdoser a very expensive tax payers shot to keep him alive so he can do it again in a dfay or two.
Garrison, I find it frightening that the campus protesters of the 70s, that preached individual freedoms and love have evolved into uber-authoritarism thugs…
“I find it frightening that the campus protesters of the 70s, that preached individual freedoms and love have evolved into uber-authoritarism thugs…”
I have often thought the same thing then it struck me as I worked on an old 442… They had become their fathers Oldsmobile, they finally achieved power and authority and are now exacting revenge from those they see as the oppressors from the 60s/70s… Democrats in power today are few and far between most have moved so far to the left just to keep up with the AOCs of the world that they are no longer recognizable as the “rule of law, individual freedoms/responsibility, free speech (remember Berkeley?)” political group that once existed as the Democratic Party… And now that both parties have been infiltrated by much younger Socialists/Communists any reasonable members of either party will soon be forced out and we will find ourselves in a fight for the very survival of our country…..
Where you seem to see irony, I see inevitability. Libertines make awful libertarians; liberty (minimized external / coercive control) is for people with self-control. The Founders understood this when they built a Republic of individual liberty founded on absolute individual responsibility.
Conversely, today’s sheepfold is the entirely predictable product of the generation(s) whose definition of “freedom” begins with the absence of self-discipline.
“…the entirely predictable product of the generation(s) whose definition of “freedom” begins with the absence of self-discipline.”
Terrific insight; dead on.
However…..
Isn’t lack of self-discipline the epitome of liberty? Free from all disagreeable constraints? Beholden to none? Freedom with responsibility is not freedom. The only true freedom is anarchy at every level, including the individual. Voluntary restraints on individuals must be entirely flexible, in order to meet ever-changing situations.
(I learned a lot of cool leftist jabberwocky in college)
Excellent! A long drawn-out “Maaan” at the end would give it just that added savor of hippie douchenticity.
“A long drawn-out “Maaan” at the end would give it just that added savor of hippie douchenticity.”
Good point.
Sometimes it is downright scary how easy it is to slip over the line, and repeat hippy dippy tripe.
I don’t like ballot initiatives in principle. Yes, they can be used by either side of an issue, but the steering of our ship of state isn’t supposed to be so abrupt.
Mossbacks who have been here more than 6-8 years tell me about how nice Seattle *used* to be.
A phone-game friend who commutes to Seattle complains about the feces and needles.
I’ve only lived in WA for a couple years but my family has history here. I remember watching them throwing fish at Pike Place as a teenager.
Of course they will try to disgrace a honorable patriot. He should move to Texas, there should be an opening to replace Ector County, Texas Sheriff Mike Griffis real soon.
You are funny Texas has been jailing people illegally of this Coronavirus BS just as much as Democratic run states. Newsflash: Neither party is in the side of rights or rule of law.
No, a Demokkkommie judge in a SINGLE CITY in Texas has been violating the Constitution and then got overruled by the Supreme Court of Texas and the Governor.
You are funny there have been more cases and Abbot the Retardican in charge passed these unconstitutional orders that got her jailed in the first place. You fail as usual, at least Abbot has enough sense to realize he may of crossed the line. You on the other hand…
No, what got her jailed was a bullshit contempt of court citation. (Which the Supreme Court of Texas came down on like a ton of bricks.) Learn the fucking law retard.
Yep, she was locked up because she refused to kiss that liberal judges ass and he got all butt-hurt… The Governor signed the order that brought her before that judge but he expected common sense to prevail, obviously that is not possible in the world of wanna be despots who think the common folks just need to do as their told and shut the hell up… Abbott fixed his executive order (which was never intended to put anyone in jail) shortly after this fiasco concluded and hopefully the asshole judge will be looking for a new line of work after his current term is up…
@pwrserge, don’t waste your time trying to explain it to him. He’s here to make stupid comments, not add anything to the conversation anyone could learn anything from.
So many people think that binging a couple of seasons of Law and Order qualifies them to analyze legal proceedings. Instead of… you know… going to LAW SCHOOL.
Then when REAL lawyers start talking, they run off to smoke their libertardian meth or scream about muh’ raycism.
That judge fined her and threw her in jail simply because she is white and he’s a racist!
You truly are an idiot Powerbottom. 1. Dallas is not a small liberal town in Texas. 2. The Republican Governer placed the orders allowing for jail time if you dare disobey his illegal orders. 3. Police came and arrested her, were those also Democratic operatives too? 4. The judge using the powers granted to him by the Republican Governer sentenced her to jail time. At least Abbot learned his lesson, you on the other hand double down on stupid.
@MB You Retardicans really hate it when I point out your are just as bad as the Democrats. Enjoy your slavery.
Someone want to remind the Seattle Police Department that the still is a 1st Amendment.
The Twitter feed says “granderson33”, not “Seattle Police Department”. He has the unalienable Constitutional right to publicly express himself.
The officer should immediately sue the department for violating his 1st Amendment rights.
It’s the Port of Seattle Police, not City Seattle PD… they’re completely different legal entities.
My mistake.
But the cop still has 1st Amendment rights regardless of the employing department.
No they don’t. There is a code of conduct while in uniform and unfortunately he probably broke several.
It’s interesting how constitutional rights can disappear and reappear based on where you are, where you work, and what you were wearing at the time. It’s like they’re not actually rights at all.
“It’s interesting how constitutional rights can disappear and reappear based on where you are, where you work, and what you were wearing at the time. It’s like they’re not actually rights at all.”
Just proves that the only rights you actually have are those you can personally defend.
Maybe that’s not a bad thing?
It looks like he’s on the clock and using department equipment. The department has some say if that’s the case. An employee doesn’t have free speech at work and can be disciplined or fired, but not be criminally liable. A McDonald’s cashier doesn’t get to go on a diatribe against eating cows when you order a burger, and a DMV clerk doesn’t get to use racial epithets while behind the counter. There may be similar rules if you’re wearing a uniform because it implies an association. If he was out of uniform in his home, like the second clip, he should be able to freely express any opinion.
Yes, however…
If his Union has the balls to stand up against the Brass, and prove that there is a disparity in how he was treated/terminated for expressing his 1st amendment rights, he can be reinstated.
For example, other officers who’ve expressed their personal views in uniform, on the clock and in public (on a regular basis) because they are ethnic or gay female, get full protection.
I used to work for a West Coast PD in CA where if you were an incompetent POS officer but very vocal like Anderson, not only did you keep your job, you got promoted! Failing evaluations during FTO didn’t matter because you were considered a “protected class” and in essence, were untouchable. So if you were an ethnic gay female, chances were you secured a Brass pension and operated with impunity.
Yes, chances are Anderson violated departmental policy, but if his department or superiors have established a precedence with similar issues in the past, he may have a good case against them for discrimination and wrongful termination based on a disparity of treatment.
These double standards exist, and he’s a minority in many ways. He’s a whistle blower.
So his agency could care less because he’s exposing them and speaking out in defiance, the TRUTH. Why, cuz he’s an E-Nuthin’ Warrior Vet with a spine?
I guess it doesn’t help that he’s a Straight White Male with Brains.
A straight white male with brains…and principles? That’s the real crime.
Maybe he not on the clock but still in uniform. He may have recorded this at the end of his shift or prior to starting shift. Did he have a take home unit?
I watch the video three times top see if I could make out what department he was with. It appears that when he shot the video he made sure the camera never caught his badge or his patch. The only markings was on his cap that he turned backwards. Three letters do not identify a law enforcement agency.
He will be terminated and have to hire a lawyer to fight the civil service commission for his job back. He he can show where others were not terminated for speaking out on social media he may win. His biggest battle is this is being done not by his chief but that of the Governor oif his state.
“and so, you shall”
“ding!”
Does this mean that as far as police and state/local government are concerned, there are no illegal orders?
Seems that at least the police department is openly stating to the public, “We will violate the law and the constitution when and how we please. If you object, sue us.”
(Note: Even in the military, refusal to obey an illegal order puts your job/career in dire jeopardy.)
Roger that, even though the UCMJ directly states otherwise. Good luck with that, if you do refuse.
As to the article, much respect for standing up for your principles officer.
When I was in ROTC (30 years ago) they told us that it was our duty to not obey unconstitutional or even unethical orders but that we would certainly be ostracized and drummed out, at best, if we did.
‘Lawful’ orders are given by NCOs under authority of Officers and Chain of Command.
‘Direct’ Orders are given by Officers who have a commission.
The UCMJ is the difference between military and civilians. Anyone outside of the UCMJ is a civilian including the police. (Hope no one gets offended, but that’s the way of things.)
Yeah…. but following through on it also puts you in jeopardy of a court marshall.
“Yeah…. but following through on it also puts you in jeopardy of a court marshall.”
You would likely be given the opportunity to resign in lieu of court martial.
And sometimes obeying them gets you in jail, I knew somebody who was at Mia Lia in Vietnam who obeyed unlawful orders and paid a dear price.
“And sometimes obeying them gets you in jail, I knew somebody who was at Mia Lia in Vietnam who obeyed unlawful orders and paid a dear price.”
There was so much wrong in the travesty at My Lia. But not in the way most “see” it.
There was a near similar event in 1994, during Operation Provide comfort, patrolling the No-Fly Zone in Iraq. This time, both Army and Air Force units were involved. The Air Force brought a First Lieutenant to trial (Yes, another 1LT). This time, the Court Martial board refused to convict because the actual culprits, senior Air Force officers, were not on trial. (The actual charge was a complicated affair, but the 1LT was operationally correct in his decisions; put in jepoardy by senior officers who turned on the 1LT).
Being privy to declassified ops reports, I told my wife to prepare for me to be out of work if the court convicted. I could no longer serve a command structure that corrupt. The verdict was Not Guilty, so it was not necessary to turn in my wings. Years later, however, I directly witnessed senior officers conspiring on another matter, and that one put an end to my career (at a most opportune moment, as I was eligible to retire; no courage, just timely exasperation).
Mia Lia, sounds like some yuppie pizza joint, but no such place in Vietnam or My Lia for that matter… Perhaps you meant My Lai (pronounced Me Lie).. If the “somebody you knew” actually told you it was Mia Lia maybe he needs to check his memory banks… OBTW I spent 39 months in country (no where near My Lai or Capt. Medina and Lt. Calley that was an Army gig) 5th Marines were busy in a little village called Hue City and retaking the Citadel… Actually by mid March we had finished cleaning up straggler forces around the city and moved back to the Phu Loc area AKA the Arizona Territory Southwest of Da Nang…
“Phu Loc area AKA the Arizona Territory”
Interesting. After all these years, I still thought “the Arizona” was everywhere outside the wire. Gotta update my catalog of military lexicon.
Thanx
The area North and West of An Hoa bordered by the Song Thu Bon, the Song Vu Gia and the Song Tinh Yen rivers… The “Arizona” was evacuated of all civilians in 66/67 and was considered a free fire zone after that…. The 5th Marine Regiment relieved the 1st Marine Regiment at An Hoa and the Arizona became our AOR including Liberty Bridge and highway(?) security from Da Nang to An Hoa riding shotgun on supply convoys and running mine sweep ops… Phu Loc is actually North of Da Nang, South of Hue City, I didn’t finish my train of thought which should have been… Phu Loc to prepare to take over An Hoa and the Arizona Territory Southwest of Da Nang…. The Arizona was a specific area and was designated as such on many military maps.
“The Arizona was a specific area and was designated as such on many military maps.”
There is still stuff to be learned about that war. Appreciate the orientation. Flying out of Da F…..g Nang, we only had aviation charts, so a number of features were just not marked as they would be for combat operations on the ground. The map in our survival kits may have been the type ground forces would have used.
We did send some of our guys from the squadron up to Hue during the second Tet offensive (’72). The thought they would be artillery spotters/forward air controllers in command posts in the city. Upon arrival, they were issued an infantry kit, and attached to patrols. A good time was had by all.
A good time was had by all.
No doubt… I still have my old operations map with ambush points, artillery fire points, and other points of interest to me personally… Did my time with 5th, 7h and back to 5th Marines throughout several tours and extensions… Glad to help..
Good source of maps from the conflict is…. http://www.rjsmith.com/topo_map.html…. extensive collection of operations maps for all services…
Caution….incoming war tale.
One night at DFN, I was air officer for base defense. Listening to several radios, we began to hear chatter that the “g…(enemy) were in the wire”. the worst of it seemed to be from direct south, and west. As you know, on the west side of DFN, the Marines had bivouac of “mud Marines” housed in old French Army quarters. The Marine detachment was not infantry, but base security support, as we had a Marine Air Wing stationed at DFN (maybe it was just a squadron; they were inside wire within the wire of the base, and Air Force/Army were apparently considered potential enemy collaborators).
Anyway….
The Marines on the west side of the base radioed in that they had captured about seven/eight sappers. Since base security was an Air Force responsibility, the Marines asked for instructions on where to forward the captives. For a never explained reason, the AF colonel in charge told the Marines to release the captives, as they were probably local friendlies who just got caught up in the wire while trying to collect brass, discarded equipment, or C-rats that were often tossed over the wire for the locals. Whoever the Marine was on the radio sent back, “You wanna release ’em? You come get ’em.”
When our AF officer arrived with an NCO, they found the captives several feet from a number of AK-47s, and satchels. Not a female or child among them (so much for locals scavenging the perimeter for food and salable items). All the “locals” were trucked into the city. Marines kept the captured equipment. The Gunny in the security center refused to talk to any AF the rest of the night.
Sounds about right I’m amazed that the Gunny EVER talked to the AF command again…
“Sounds about right I’m amazed that the Gunny EVER talked to the AF command again…”
There was a standing caution about approaching the Marine country club at night. Seems Marines were pretty tough on unexpected guests after dark. I didn’t question the advisory.
Unexpected company still irritates the shit out of me, if you know me you know to call first, if you don’t know me you have no business knocking on my door….
So much for the single Police Officer in Seattle that believes in Free Speech.
The rest of his former buddies have bunkered down, and are waiting till it’s safe to come out and pretend nothing happened.
Home of the brave my ass. That song got it wrong didn’t it. Don’t worry the communist party, I mean democrat party will always honor your constitutional rights.
Last year, in a presentation by our union, we were reminded that, and public employees, our 1st amendment rights are limited. We are protected when 1. speaking on matters of public interest, AND 2. speaking as a private person.
Speaking in uniform and in an obvious non-private setting, e.g. in his patrol car, he is not in alignment with #2.
“Speaking in uniform and in an obvious non-private setting, e.g. in his patrol car, he is not in alignment with #2.”
Speaking, in uniform, to the public about the intent of government to violate the constitution is the very essence of “public interest”. When you are refusing to violate your oath of office, when you are a member of a government entity that intends to violate your constitutional rights, the dress-of-the-day is entirely appropriate. The man cannot exercise his free speech about police policy that directly affects him without speaking as a police officer.
You are correct, and beat me to the punch of saying the same thing.
“You are correct, and beat me to the punch of saying the same thing.”
My bad. Thought you were on break, so I went ahead and posted it.
We have to work with what, “is.” Not with what we think an ideally working libertarian world would be like, but what, “is.”
Thank you bill clintoon…It all depends on what “is” means. If “is” lends cover for an injustice then “is” is nothing but crap that caters to bureaucrats. Bureaucrats who think they are above it all including The Constitution Of The United States. Time to cut some uppity self serving ratbassturds down to size.
Correct, in the first video he is in full uniform and in a PD vehicle, was he on duty posting his personal opinions?
He is paid by all the taxpayers, not just the conservatives, and he needs to follow the direction of the people’s electric representatives who have authority over his position.
And he is clearly breaking the chain of command, by taking his grievance public and not following the established grievance procedure within the department.
When said elected officials are issuing illegal orders, he is under no obligation to do jack shit. An illegal order is invalid on its face.
Right!
Is violating an emergency management order by the governor or other executive an illegal act, subjecting one to arrest or other sanction? Can the legislature delegate to the executive the power to enact a criminal law by “order?”
The nation needs clear answers to these very questions by the courts.
I hear people all day long crying “illegal order” but I really want to see the appellate opinion that says governors have no such authority under the constitution. Historically, we have seen that the rights set forth in the Bill of Rights are not considered absolute by the courts. When a government has a “compelling interest” in restricting those rights, the courts allow narrow restrictions that are tailored to address
the government’s “compelling interest.” So is an order closing a particular kind of business constitutionally sound if that business might further a “health emergency?” What about closing beaches, parks, waters? Solo paddleboarders? Mandatory mask wearing? Restricting peaceful assembly by more than X number of people? I don’t know the answer but I seriously hope these issues get addressed in the courts.
Until the courts speak, officers like this one are in a no-man’s land.
And by the way, where are the courts? Where are the injunctions prohibiting enforcement of these “emergency orders?” Texas stepped up on one high-profile case but it’s been crickets from the bench mostly. It appears that an entire branch of government is asleep at the wheel, permitting perhaps the most questionable and at the same time obvious power grab in all of American history. The least they could do is review these cases as prior restraints and start issuing some injunctions (or not).
Holy shit. I think I agree with you. That’s got to be a first.
Lance, don’t forget part 2 of the “compelling interest” exception. They must also use the “Least Intrusive” means of achieving that goal.
– Are Stay Home orders the Least intrusive means of compelling people not to congregate unnecessarily?
– Is arresting people protesting these orders the “least intrusive” means?
Lots of questions…. I’m not liking the answers of.
I’m not liking “compelling interest” it was made up by the courts and is, itself unconstitutional. It was the first step down the proverbial “slippery slope”. The will of the people is the only valid “compelling interest” of the government.
“I’m not liking “compelling interest” it was made up by the courts and is, itself unconstitutional.”
The implication, from the courts, is that the government, and “We the people” are separate entities, with separate interests and “rights”. The doctrine established the principle that government must be allowed to exceed its charter (the constitution) from time-to-time.
(Note: “The Courts” are part of the government, and thus must be allowed to exceed its authority, from time-to-time)
You would/will make a great storm trooper, miner.
Nah probably more like Jabba the Hut…
Yes he would.
Kinda like all of the never-Trump Dems that were elected to office, that constantly berate our president and his followers, and do whatever they can to keep this country at odds. Tell me why it’s ok for them and not this guy?
69er/Chief Bendover/Vlad/Crisco/HillJack: Blah Blah Chain Of Command Blah Blah = gutless coward. No way to play the race card here?
Easy way to tell he never served. The chain of command binds both ways.
Miner, you gave me a good laugh, now would you puhleeeze point me in the general direction of the people’s electric representatives, cuz this I gotta see! Bz-z-zt!
Except his personal opinion just happens to be what is RIGHT according to the Constitution. Anyone who disagrees with what he said is WRONG. Therefore, he cannot be in violation of “the law” whether in uniform or not. Whoever placed him on administrative leave or whatever the hell they call it IS wrong and IS acting illegally.
Um… no. His duty is to follow and respect the US and State Constitutions, not the party figureheads who sully their oaths every chance they get. Get your mind right Miner.
I knew as soon as I started watching this video at Mrgunsngear’s youtube channel he would be reprimanded. Just as in the military you aren’t allowed to protest in uniform. If he had done this on his own time out of uniform they couldn’t do anything legally to prohibit his speech. As former military he should have known that. And he probably did and chose to make his video anyway. I agree with what he said but he should have done it on his own time and then if he was reprimanded or fired he’d have ways to legally address his grievance. Now he really doesn’t. Maybe this is his springboard for something else?
Not only did he express his personal opinion while on duty in uniform, in the PD vehicle, he also broke his chain of command by taking his grievance directly to the public rather to his supervisor or designated representative.
But he will probably make serious bank with his go fund me page, I think the hairdresser woman has raked in about $500K so far.
There is a good probability that these folks are just working a clever scam, and bilking money out of the taxpayers for their ‘outrage’.
Exactly, if he took to it off duty they would have a hard time doing anything. This is more or less true for any employer, if you publicly did a video like this it would be hard pressed to keep your job expect in colleges with tenured professors.
“But he will probably make serious bank with his go fund me page, I think the hairdresser woman has raked in about $500K so far.”
Hey george…Do you also have a problem with the hairdresser who “raked” in $500,000.00 on a go-fund-me page? Well I do not. How is that you ask? Because she did not “rake” in a damned cent. She was drug through the mud and she earned every cent she received. Perhaps you and the nitwit you are in camp with should start a go-fund page to assist uppity self-serving bureaucrats? Let me know how it goes.
Do you also have a problem with the hairdresser who “raked” in $500,000.00 on a go-fund-me page…
She stated in an interview that SHE did not start the gofundme page but would be starting a charitable foundation with the funds… Anyone having a problem with that is left of left…..
miner, you’re saying he’s a socialist?
There is a good probability that these folks are just working a clever scam, and bilking money out of the taxpayers for their ‘outrage’.
GoFundMe is not “taxpayer funded” and if it’s a scam they will be caught, like the stranded out of gas woman that allegedly was helped by the homeless guy that gave her his last 20 bucks, might have worked but she and her partner decided to screw the “homeless guy” over…. Oooooppppssss…
“But he will probably make serious bank with his go fund me page,…”
Off to a good start, so far, $311,000…
Officer down so join hands with bureaucrats and kick him some more. Did you and the yes-george applauding your dribble ever consider the officer wanted the public to know the people they see wearing police uniforms and driving police vehicles are not above the Constitution of The United States? Well like it or not…Mission Accomplished.
This is not the US Military where the enemy is a foreign entity and a US Soldier speaks on the behalf of Jihad. Cease using the US Military, etc. as a basis to support your claim that this man has stepped in it and has no standing. This is still America and not the Third Reich.
Most police departments have a military organization especially ones of significant size and follow patterns of rank and chain of command. For example you typically would not jump to a captain if you didn’t go through your Sargent or lieutenant first. Secondly there is always a code of conduct or something similar on what you can and cannot do while in uniform. I agree with him being being a fellow LEO but the way he did it was plain stupid.
If Not, why Not?
If everything was on the up and up ,his superiors should/would have agreed with him , he wouldn’t be in trouble at all ! The whole problem here is we have people in high places of authority that are in the wrong ,ANTI constitutional , and we can’t do anything but argue about if he was or was not on duty.What we should be doing is discussing the force that needs to be organized to stop every person in authority (like his superiors) and put an end to this. EVERY American should be able to call out an un-constitutional act , procedure , rule , or law (of which should never be unconstitutional in the first place)etc. with full support of their superiors because their superiors should also desire the same . You see , when we got lazy and disinterested we allowed these usurpers of liberty to become his superiors ,that should have been nipped in the bud. This will continue until WE put a stop to it . Because IT has gone this far ,it will have to be done with Force. I’m not anymore happy about this realization than any of the rest of you , but if we want o our liberty and things to be RIGHT (corrected) , unfortunately we must now act with physical force. It will not be done in the courts of law because too many courts are lawless and without true justice. Yes , I’m using MY constitutional Right and I am calling for violence against all people’s against LIBERTY ! We must begin THIS discussion now of what to do, from this day forward. If not , then all we’ll continue to talk about is what a person can or cannot SAY when or if they are on duty or not. What will that REALLY accomplish. I’ve not served in our country’s military (yet) I’m 65 ,but by God , I’ll fight to my death to preserve the Liberty I was lead to believe that we are supposed to have. May God Bless the Future Warriors of American Liberty !!
Thanks for being a good little commy, I mean liberal.
I agree with his sentiments. However, he posted a video in his uniform while in his police vehicle. Had he posted in plain clothes from his private vehicle every pro-1A group would be compelled to back him regardless of his position.
The employer has rights.
I know that many on this forum support him. Again, I agree with his position on the issue. However, I understand the legal position of his employer also.
It most certainly is protected what his employer is asking him to do violates numerous parts of the Bill of Rights. If you can’t fail to see the differance with say complaining about his boss being bad or the union contract you have a serious issue.
I don’t have a serious issue. Possibly, you do. I support his views. However, his employer does not. They are well within their rights to tell him to remove this particular video because he made it in his uniform in his work vehicle. Had he made the exact same video in plain clothes and in his private vehicle, then the 1A protections would be applicable.
If Guy-In-WI Plumbing had a plumber who appeared on social media in his company uniform and said “my employer wants me to violate plumbing code on repairs of our customers”, you would rightfully terminate the plumber. However, if the same plumber appeared on social media and did not identify you as his employer, you could not fire him for his message as long as he did not identify with your business. This is an area of established law and precedent.
I understand that we want more law enforcement officers to speak out on the issue. However, we have to go about this legally. You can’t trample the 1A in support of the 2A.
“If Guy-In-WI Plumbing had a plumber who appeared on social media in his company uniform and said ‘my employer wants me to violate plumbing code on repairs of our customers’, you would rightfully terminate the plumber.”
I can’t speak for other states, but CA has whistleblower laws that protects employees from termination for refusing instructions to violate regs or laws. Such terminations are easy fodder for lawsuits/arbitration resulting in punitive measures against the employer and payouts to the former employee as compensation for the loss of the job. Believe me, I know. 🙂
Think about this less as “complaining on the internet” and more as “whistleblowing on the government”. The Seattle police department is not a private organization – they are, in fact, the government.
Maybe it’s a whistle that everybody already heard, but clearly they can’t stand to have it repeated again.
“However, if the same plumber appeared on social media and did not identify you as his employer, you could not fire him for his message as long as he did not identify with your business.”
Without identifying yourself as a police officer, and the department you work for, how would you credibly announce that the police department intends its officers to violate your constitutional rights?
Somehow, going on social media, and saying, “Hi, I am Joe Slobotnik, and I just learned that a local police department demands it officers violate your constitutional rights in performance of their duties.” doesn’t quite have the ring of sincerity and truth.
All,
Whistleblower Protections are very narrow. More than likely, there is an arbitration clause in his employment contract. However, more generally there are strict regulations for the process of whistleblowing. Especially in modern, large, government entities; he was most likely required to have a specific violation and follow a specific procedure. You will be hard pressed to find a case or a precedent for social media accusations against an employer. Had he presented a specific issue to the District Attorney-Judge-Union Rep-whomever or refused to follow an illegal order in the field, then the matter would be legally and appropriately addressed.
Again, had he posted to social media off the clock and as a private citizen, we would all agree that his suspension and termination was illegal.
Sid, thank you for bringing a matter of fact perspective to this issue.
However, your post is far too reasoned and accurate, and will be dismissed as fake news by most on this forum.
As I understand, the hairdresser who was prosecuted for breaking the stay at home order has already garnered over $500,000 from her go fund me, I think this guy saw the opportunity and set out to bilk people out of their money in sympathy for his ‘outrage’.
miner, you’re desperately trying to earn your 30 pieces of silver today.
Does the government as an organization have “rights”?
IANAL. However, as understood and practiced today, I would say yes. The employer, in this case the police department, can instruct an employee on their actions during hours of employment. Vic, you have to start work at exactly 7am and work until 3pm. You have to wear this exact clothing in this manner. You are not allowed to post social media during work hours. Now, you may not want to agree with the last statement, but the first two really go over easy. We might have to agree/disagree about using the term “rights”, but you would hopefully agree that the employer has the authority to tell an employee what they are allowed to do during hours of employment?
I have an unreliable memory and it has been awhile since I have read about such issues. However, it seems to me what you are talking about is authority rather than rights. A government’s rights are usually in respect to other levels of related government entities, such as a states rights vs the federal authority. I am not saying you are wrong just contemplating semantics mostly.
I Haz a Question, are you a moron. How can you equate constitutional rights to breaking the law. I can smell a good communist from 1000 miles away and you stink to high heaven.
1) Not quite sure to what you’re referring, so please clarify so at least your insult will be understood.
2) You posted your “reply” in the totally wrong place, and to the wrong person. The only reason I even saw it was because I randomly scanned this page before getting ready to go to sleep for the night. Otherwise, your “I smell a stinky Kommie” comment would have been lost forever.
I await your erudite response.
But his employers actions are wrong fundamentally and unconstitutional.
If your employer publicly espoused a policy of not hiring minorities, could you not call them out wearing, for example, your UPS or United Airlines uniform?
It’s wrong and it’s illegal for them to uphold such a policy.
I am his employer! I pay taxes to the Port of Seattle, and if the Port Commissioners won’t support, then fire their asses.
Generally speaking, the cops working for the Port came from Seattle Police department and they are a good crew. This guy is has a clue.
To Officer Anderson, If Seattle doesn’t want a quality officer like you, I’m am quite certain that the Klamath County Sheriff’s Department would love to have a quality officer like you in their department. They are always looking for good officers. Give them a call if the idiots up there terminate you. Hold your head high, you did nothing wrong and everything right! Sincerely, Terry Dean(VietNam Vet and citizen of Klamath County, Oregon.
Remember what Nazis said at Nuremberg Trial: “We Just Followed The Orders”. It did not fly.
That defense seems to have worked pretty much everywhere (even if not always) except for the court for which it was named.
I was just following orders when I gassed and killed those 300,000 people.
This is merely more proof that the America “justice system” is totally corrupt.
All law enforcement in this country has to stand together and follow the example of the U.S. military where you swear under God to defend this nation and the Constitution of the United States and to stand up for our nation’s flag. You operate by these principles without exceptions. This is why our military commands respect and always maintains order within the ranks. There is never any division to be found, as it should be.
Officer G. Anderson is an officer who understands these values and their strength and therefore is taking a stand on our constitutional values as a nation. His command ought to recognize these values, as well, to foster strength in law enforcement. For our military services, politics is never a part of the equation to maintain unit strength in the mission. Law enforcement should do the same and not get caught up in politics.
Have you ever wondered why Obama was running Christians out of the military and replacing them with Muslims. Who else to order them to kill Americans if they stand up to a tyrannical government.
We know how this story ends, the foot soldiers testify first, they say “I was only following orders.” They get deals to testify against their higher-ups who also claim “I was only following orders.” The prosecution follows this all the way to the top. Why are so many so stupid as to not recognize it when its happening before their very eyes?
Bull Shit, the foot soldier pays the price and the higher ups get treated like it never happened, someone paid for it. You were never in the military were you?
One thing needs to be pointed out… if you decide to contact the police department to comment, please keep in mind the **Port** of Seattle is an entirely different legal entity from the **City** of Seattle, with completely different and separate police departments.
Don’t bug Seattle P.D. over this… it’s not their department doing this (and they have enough other issues to deal with).
Thanks for the heads up. Sent my message to the correct P.D. Blast their Email.
It’s no wonder that many on the east side of Washington (ME) DESPISE the west side.
Even if he does get fired, he can go to some other dept. that’s not commanded by Nazis and get a job.
Please get your side to vote. 50% turnout guarantees the wrong side of the state wins.
Unfortunately, the eastside of the state doesn’t have 50% of the population. In the end, and for the forseable future, all elections are going to be won and lost in the Eastside (of Lake Washington) suburbs.
As Mike H in WA stated, we don’t have the population. That’s why that rich bitch Bloomberg threw around some money on the west side and the population rich west side approved idiotic gun laws. It doesn’t matter if EVERY FU— COUNTY east of the cascades votes against something, if the Seattle, Tacoma and west side population saturated counties vote FOR something with a large margin, it passes. They have the population to override anything the east-side votes on. That’s one of the reasons for the push for splitting the state and creating a new state. We have no vote! The east side IS NOT Seattle. It’s just like the rest of the nation ISN’T New York. The rest of the nation doesn’t give a rats ass about New York City.
The only problem is the rest of the dept. did not join him and leave his “commanders” with no choice but to go pound sand. He has a Civil Rights case and perhaps the Gov. or AG may intervene before the courts get a hold of it and remind the so called commanders the whole reason for the US Military, courts, police, etc. is To Protect and Defend The Constitution of The United States from Enemies both foreign and Domestic.
The content of Greg Anderson’s statement is right. The time and place of the statement are wrong. You can say what you want in mufti, but when you’re in uniform, you have to pay the piper. He knows this.
We all know that “suicide by cop” is a real thing. This seems to be a case of “career suicide by cop.”
Maybe he’s just had enough of the bvllsh!t and wants out on his own terms. If so, good for Anderson. He said what needed to be said and accepts the consequences.
Having gotten his message out he should take the original down. That is not the only copy at this point and the other copies will proliferate due to the Streisand effect. And now that he has built an audience he can keep posting out of uniform. A tactical withdraw to total victory is available if he plays it smart.
“The content of Greg Anderson’s statement is right. The time and place of the statement are wrong. You can say what you want in mufti, but when you’re in uniform, you have to pay the piper.”
He ought to make a new video, word-for-word *exactly*, but in civilian dress. Then he fulfills the original order, so they can’t fire him, but the content still spreads.
Then again, GoFundMe has earned him north of $310,000 so far, so maybe he will just ride it out and bank the many hundreds of thousands it will earn him, on its present trajectory…
He can come to eastern Washington and get a job. He is our type of officer, one that believes in the constitution and willing to put his job on the line to recognize that fact.
For those of you that don’t know, the State of Washington is divided in the middle by the Cascade mountain range. Most of the eastern side of the state is red. Matter of fact of the 39 counties in the state, I believe all but three in the Seattle metro and surrounding area voted red. However, three counties in the west side have a large population base that votes blue. So the whole state has about three counties that dictate how the state is run just because of this. Both Governor Jay Inslee and State AG Bobby Ferguson are both flaming moron liberals and could care less about the rest of the state.
Officer Anderson, start testing for a job in central or eastern Washington, you are our type of L.E. (You know, someone that believes in the rule of law).
Preach it, brother!
if he gets fired for refusing a lawful order from his chain of command and pulling the this stunt in uniform he is pretty much in law enforcement.
Naaaa, there’s plenty of depts that would hire him despite his refusal. Not every command structure are spineless drones.
Mason County S.O. has openings!
I’ve said for a while that I’m more concerned about our response to the virus than the virus itself. This is the kind of thing I was talking about.
The issue of him posting this while in uniform and in a “company” vehicle notwithstanding, the guy was doing something that his command should applaud because he’s trying, ultimately, to save lives. 900,000 State, Federal and Local LEOs in this country. That’s nothing if the population gets sufficiently ticked off. Sad to say, but if push comes to shove most of those LEOs will either go home or die. They’re pretty good at what they do but as Mr. Anderson points out; they’re not a combat force. They will be overwhelmed faster than most politicians or even cops can probably imagine.
I’ve said here for a long time that I’m not a fan of the boog-bois or whatever you want to call them. I’m still not, very specifically because I think a lot of them are irresponsible with their rhetoric and, mostly, not that serious anyway.
But they’re not really the issue. It’s the millions of people who are now facing a choice: Comply and lose everything, your house, cars and even the ability to feed yourself and your kids or… take a chance. If the government’s response to people taking that chance is a crackdown we’re going to have a very, very bad day.
Where does the number of people willing to take the risk hit critical mass? Fucked if I know, I’m not clairvoyant. But that line is out there somewhere and we’re marching towards it in more than one way. We probably won’t know that the Rubicon has been crossed until the event is in the past and by then it’s too late. Mr. Anderson gets that and he has a pretty good idea of what happens if that river is crossed. He doesn’t want that because he’s not insane. No one in their right mind wants that. But, panic fucking kills and lots of people are panicking right now because some people gain money and power by selling that fear.
I hope we don’t end up with this spiraling out of control, even in just a few localities, and I hope this things work out for this guy too. Fundamentally I think we can rebound from this pretty quickly if we don’t push the economic destruction too far (how far is too far, again I don’t know). But I am concerned that we won’t do that. I’m concerned that the disk is spinning faster and faster and starting to wobble significantly while the players are acting like drunken teenagers who think watching it spin faster is fun. Pushing people to economic destruction and then answering civil disobedience with a crackdown is a recipe for a total-fucking-disaster. This is, quite literally, how governments fall.
This is a dangerous game for all the marbles and personally I don’t think many of the people playing it recognize it for what it is.
“But they’re not really the issue. It’s the millions of people who are now facing a choice: Comply and lose everything, your house, cars and even the ability to feed yourself and your kids or… take a chance. If the government’s response to people taking that chance is a crackdown we’re going to have a very, very bad day. ”
The Boston incident with the two idiot brothers was a test of locking a city down. They have done hurricane lock downs but with everything blasted it was different. This is turning off a perfectly good world and saying we are your parents, your dean, your warden. We’ll tell you how much to shit and what color.
And anyone who disagrees wants to kill with a virus, is a alt-righter, a racist gun nut, or just a looney we need to throw in the newly emptied jails.
I think the very bad day is right around the corner
When these things jump off it will seem fast and sudden. All the warning signs are there but most folks are praying and hoping their fears aren’t coming true. And then it happens and for a moment folks seem blindsided.
I’ve seen a country in collapse. It is not something any sane person would wish for. And take into account the American propensity towards violence and you have the makings of a disaster of biblical size.
All we can do at this point is hold on. If it hasn’t jumped off by election time we may pull through. But then again when Trump is re elected the left might just spin completely out of control. Frayed nerves and worry on the part of mainstream America may cause a backlash on them that will be brutal.
“All we can do at this point is hold on.”
This is the one part I disagree with. We can do two things simultaneously. Peacefully engage in civil disobedience to show the pols the truth and speak out against those who are agitating for the sake of agitation.
It’s dancing on the edge of a knife but, like it or not, we don’t have a choice because we’re already on the edge of that knife.
Agreed.
“It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance.” -John Philpot Curran
Stay frosty, my friend.
” Peacefully engage in civil disobedience to show the pols the truth and speak out against those who are agitating for the sake of agitation ”
I don’t disagree with this course of action, but I gotta say I’m very, very pessimistic that it will have any impact at all. The thing about civil disobedience and speaking out is that the other side has to be willing to listen, and much more importantly, admit that just maybe they went about all this the wrong way. I don’t believe for one second that the powers that be possess either of these qualities. And the proof of my disbelief? If any of them had even one shred of compassion or concern for the little people, none (or at least a lot) of this crap wouldn’t be happening to begin with.
What’s at stake is power and money, and power and money naturally attracts the narcissistic and pathological among us. Most people are naturally inclined to cooperate, not compete. But turn a pathologically competitive predator loose among the cooperative and it becomes the wolf’s strongest weapon. Couple that with an unshakable conviction on the part of the wolf that he is ALWAYS right and exceptionally important and, well, that brings us to where we are today.
It’s important to stand up and, as you say, speak truth to power. But power just doesn’t walk willingly away from it’s privileged perch. Protest as much as we like, the more the better, but the bad actors are not going to walk off the stage. If we want them gone, they will have to be forcibly removed. Considering how deeply they’ve become entrenched, this will require quite a bit of force.
UpInArms: (A good song, that, btw).
All of what you’ve said here was stated by those who opposed MLK. His path won. Letter from the Birmingham Jail is the template for that success.
Will it work here? Dunno, but I do know that there are no guarantees in this situation regardless of what we choose and the concept is worth a shot, at least up front. If it works, fantastic. If not, we move down the list.
If it doesn’t work there are other options. “An appeal to arms and the God of Hosts…” needs to be the last one on the list. It’s on the list and *they* need to know it, but everyone needs to recognize that such an option is the last “box” in the list and that it’s last for a reason. That’s not a can of worms we want to open. We need to be willing to open it if we have to, but that shit is behind a “break in case of emergency” layer of glass and it’s back there for a set of damn good reasons.
If this shit is going to go sideways we want our ducks in a nice little row because that’s the difference between a huge portion of the population standing to the side instead of in direct opposition.
Governors are chewing on the idea of bunches of contact tracers. That will be bad enough, but if the contact tracers are accompanied by what will in effect be paddy wagons, that will probably be sufficient to tip this kettle over.
I would tend to agree with this.
The head of the WHO already talked about concentration camps. Yeah, sounds extreme but that is what he was talking about even if he didn’t use those exact words.
Gussy up the language any way you want but when you start talking about forcible separation of families, which is what he was talking about, “to stop the spread” what you’re really talking about is a fuckload of people shuffling off this mortal coil.
I don’t like to talk all conspiratorial and shit but beople simply won’t put up with that and after the first attempt good luck finding people to make it happen. That’s how you get people ambushing authorities and that won’t take long to put an end to both that behavior and probably civil society.
There are 900,000 LEOs and 19,495 Cities and Towns in this country. Just two people with deer rifles and a reason per town… well, you do the arithmetic.
So turn off your phone and leave it home. We did just fine without them for millenia.
“I’m more concerned about our response to the virus than the virus itself.”
The politicians want to destroy the country in order to save it.
“The politicians want to destroy the country in order to save it.”
Aaahhhh. “Search and destroy”.
It seems to me I’ve heard that song before
It’s from an old familiar score
I know it well, that melody
It’s funny how a theme
Recalls a (bad) dream.
I share roughly the same sentiment, but in most red states it seems the lockdowns are for the most part over with. The social distancing guidelines aren’t so much law or restrictive so I don’t think there will be any conflict over those.
Ironically I could see rebellion in the blue cities where the lockdowns and rules are the most authoritarian, and do not want to let up on it. Where I live things are almost back to normal, but I live and and work in a very rural area though so my opinion may be skewed.
There are two serious issues here for all of us.
First, Red States can’t really be trusted either if there’s a “second wave” type issue. Most pols have admitted that sans a v a c c i n e we have a “new normal”. That’s troublesome.
Second, it doesn’t matter that it’s only this or that state. If you have a rebellion in one state it will almost certainly spread in one manner or another. That leaves the feds in a very uncomfortable position. They likely foment rebellion nationwide if they side with a governor to crush the rebellion of people who just want to go back to work but they can’t back the rebellion either.
So where does that leave us? The State’s police can’t deal with it so the Governor calls out the National Guard… does Trump federalize them to make them stand down? This turns into an ungodly mess really, really quick and honestly all it takes is one bad event to kick that kind of thing off.
Red State or Blue, this kind of thing actually affects all of us. It’s a time for some significant caution on both sides of the issue. A Kent State or Franz Ferdinand moment and we could rapidly slide into an uncontrollable situation.
As has been noted here for a long time, the veneer of society is paper thin. Scratch it and you won’t like what you find.
Realistically my concern level over this is abotu 10-12/100 but that’s at least 5x higher than it was a couple of months ago.
Also, I should note that this isn’t restricted just to the states.
Just today the Democrats floated a bill for “door to door contact tracing”. Now, that’s probably not going to pass but I’ve pointed out something here before: When the police state comes for you it will likely do so with the overwhelming support of your countrymen.
The actions of the police at the 1968 DNC riot and the actions of the National Guard during the 1970 Kent State shooting both polled shockingly well. Like 60% approval for gunning down unarmed college kids, including an ROTC cadet who was just watching.
What kind of approval rating do you suppose “sTaY aT HoMeRs” (72% of the country last I checked btw) would grant for extreme measures to “stop the spread”? Smart money says 65%+ support those measures. Fuck around and those people will support *further measures*. Even the governor of Idaho is on board with this kind of thing.
“Pushing people to economic destruction and then answering civil disobedience with a crackdown is a recipe for a total-fucking-disaster.”
As I see it, this plays out one way – the country gets opened back up by economic necessity, and we get a bigger round two, if not three or four rounds of fatalities.
The political Left will exploit the additional sickness and loss of life as being the current administration’s fault. The only ones who will buy that story will be the Left’s own. Meaning, the upcoming election is gonna be tight, and could fall either way.
The Vegas line is currently Trump, at +10…
The question that I have is if the country really does open back up.
As I said above, last I looked (late last month) “stay at home” had 72% support nationwide. It’s numbers like that which have places like LA County talking about maybe extending “stay at home” until August.
Yeah I’m following this guy…anyone catch him talking about his time in Iraq? Pretty sure hiring a ton of ex
military is part of the “we’re just following order’s” problem with today’s militarized po-leece. When I was a kid(55-60 years ago)we still had cop’s we looked up to. Sadly Officer Anderson is(was?)a rare exception…I wish him well. Heard his go fund is going gangbusters.
$232,000 as of a few minute ago. Sent my support. I challenge each one of you to put your money where your comments come from. Ever little bit will help.
$313,000 as of 1AM.
He has some *serious* momentum going…
Military personnel are taught, from day one, that if they choose to follow an unlawful order, their ass is grass. And that level of accountability continues as long as they’re under the UCMJ. Cops are taught no such thing and in practical terms have almost no accountability when they commit crimes. Veterans turned LE aren’t the problem
When you were a kid there were a ton of police who served in WW2, Korea, or Vietnam. Today is no different. And veterans typically make the best police. They’re generally, (though not always) conservative, constitutionally aware, pro 2A, and more relaxed then non vet police. I know this from personal experience being a veteran in LE. I’ve personally been chastised for being “too relaxed” and “too calm” by other officers who stepped into the job the day after highschool.
and the other police officer
https://youtu.be/7ihSSIdLlFQ
Officer Anderson is correct in that the Constitution does not grant (and therefore, by its nature, prohibits) any executive the authority to issue “orders” to, or expect “subordination” from, the general population. Unfortunately for him, he voluntarily accepted employment in an organization where those ARE lawful expectations.
Come to Texas Greg. We’ll welcome you with open arms. Then perhaps a Californian can leave here and go to Seattle or maybe a few thousand.
Come to Texas, but stay away from Austin or Houston as they are much like Seattle.
Go fund me goal was $50,000. By the time you read this it should have passed $240,000! God Bless America!
A little bit more and he can afford to move the hell out of there and be a real cop somewhere else.
Nice on that rifle to the left.
Meant to say “nice can”
A crystal clear message has been sent to other cops. You are our private army and will carry out our orders. When the next Big Thing hits the country you’ll lock everyone down and await further instructions.
That’s what I got from that too. Tis the scary part.
Yep! That statement that if he won’t obey the governor he isn’t welcome as a cop in Washington State is pretty chilling… then again, all over the country cops have been arresting people based solely on the illegal edicts of governors so it’s really not much of a stretch to say that large swaths of LE are completely fine acting as the private army of the governor
There are good people everywhere….but, many won’t speak up when they see wrong in fear of losing their jobs are getting smeared on Twatter!
More police officers should listen to this guy, ALL officers should relate to what this guy stands for & stand up for OUR Constitutional Rights, they did say they would protect us, that is what their job is. I do know there is DIRTY COPS & those that let THE POWER go to their head, because they are lacking in some other department. If the majority of officers would stand up & do the right thing, they could actually weed out the tares, I call them, that is what THEE FATHER is going to do when HE is close to being done with ALL THE EVIL in this world. WE THEE PEOPLE are ALL in this together. I give this guy a shout for his big heart & standing up for what he believes in. Blessings to you Greg Anderson.
“ If the majority of officers would stand up & do the right thing, they could actually If the majority of officers would stand up & do the right thing, they could actually weed out the tares, I call them, that is what THEE FATHER is going to do when HE is close to being done with ALL THE EVIL in this world., I call them, that is what THEE FATHER is going to do when HE is close to being done with ALL THE EVIL in this world.”
Well there it is:
“officers would stand up & do the right thing, they could actually weed out the tares”
This is exactly the problem, an individual using the bully pulpit and authority of a police officer with his badge and gun in plain view, to promote his personal opinion about politics.
And now we have posters on this forum encouraging officers to do ’weeding’ of those who don’t share his religion.
Would it be OK for a Muslim police officer to post videos of himself in his uniform, with badge and gun, and tell the world that Christianity is wrong?
Would it be OK for a police officer, with his badge and gun and uniform, to post a video promoting Joe Biden for president?
How about ‘Vote Blue’ bumper stickers on police cars, it’s free speech, right?
I don’t usually agree with you minor but to do this while in uniform and sitting in what appears to be his squad car could be grounds for dismissal (depends of policy of personal use). On or off duty may or may not matter.
Still, I’m glad he did and maybe that was part of his method of defiance – create the optic to show folks he really is a cop.
It is all about GOOD vs. EVIL, Eph 6:12 Because we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against authorities, against the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual matters of wickedness in the heavenlies.
In case you haven’t noticed, they don’t care what WE THE PEOPLE say or want, what I was saying that if people in authority would stand with WE THE PEOPLE, prayerfully, WE can weed out the evil & corruption that is all around us, makes me feel hopeful when I listen to someone who has the b***s to stand up against people that are trying to rule over us.
This is a man who has seen what happens when a society breaks down, and he is seeing the precursors to that breakdown now. He felt it was his duty and responsibility as a police officer and former military to warn people, especially his fellow cops. The police department is a government agency, so according to the 1st Amendment, they can’t restrict what he says as a private citizen. Sure, he was wearing what looked to be his work uniform, in what appeared to be a police vehicle, but until his department got stupid, I had no idea what police department he worked for, or if he was really a cop. The people who will fire him and justify it with some BS excuse will never go out and work the streets, ironically probably live in gated communities with armed guards.
We people of the gun always go on about what the meaning of the 2nd Amendment meant when it was written. The 1st Amendment was written in an era of what we would consider plagues. Smallpox was common – it has killed more humans than any other cause, including war. Cholera, Typhus, Diphtheria, Whooping Cough, Scarlet Fever, Malaria, Flu, Pneumonia, you name it, they had it. So there is no justification to denying people’s rights because of a disease that may kill 0.02% of the total population of the country.
Please replace the part about the amendments with “The Constitution . . .,” then brand your last paragraph on every idiot who uses the word “unprecedented” to describe COVID.
What was he thinkin? People in those “countries” disappear for talkin like that!
They fired him.
https://www.theorganicprepper.com/police-officer-fired-follow-the-constitution/
“They fired him.”
Incorrect.
Placed on administrative leave while they go through the process of firing him.
Meanwhile, the GoFundMe account is over $318,000, and likely to *skyrocket* much higher in the coming days… 😉
You have the right to free speech, which means the government cannot throw you in jail for political speech. You do not have the Constitutional right to be a cop.
By engaging in speech in uniform, in a police vehicle, with firearms and police equipment everywhere, he should have absolutely known what he was getting into. If not, he should probably have done some research first.
He may have an argument under Pickering v. Board of Ed. but it’s gonna be a fight.
This guy is a hero!
“This guy is a hero!”
I am “passionately neutral”* about labels, here. We know only what we have read so far. We saw, heard and read some statements. We are ignorant of any accompanying circumstances and/or motivations. We should defer discussing such, until this unfolds a bit more.
Believe none of what you hear, and half of what you see.
*Herb Kelleher, former CEO Southwest Airlines, regarding “the Wright amendment” controlling expansion of air service at Dallas Love Field.
If this guy was part of the “Di-Verse crowd…..He’s have a good law suit & media attention as the Atlanta boy……
That ” Atlanta boy” is a corpse…try harder.
The NFL has the right to demand it’s players not kneel for the national anthem, but didn’t exercise that right.
The Port of Seattle has the right to demand its officers don’t speak against public policy while on the job. And they did.
Why the difference?
The players union is strong. They can cripple the economics of the league.
The police union, meh. Not so much, I guess. Must not be contributing campaign dollars to the right (left) party.
No, there is a big difference and it’s not the one you cited.
Colin Kaepernick does not wear a uniform and a badge and gun. He does not have the authority to detain citizens or arrest individuals he thinks have committed a crime.
Colin Kaepernick can’t arrest citizens and place them in restraints and take them off to jail. He has no authority over his fellow citizens whatsoever and does not perform his duties with the full weight of the government behind his actions. Colin Kaepernick does not carry a gun and is not authorized to use lethal force on the city streets.
In short, an NFL ball player is not a civil servant. He is not paid with my tax dollars, his training and equipment were not financed by my tax dollars, he is a private citizen.
And while the constitution mentions nothing about a national anthem or a national flag, it certainly does include the first amendment which guarantees the right of free speech to private citizens.
WELL….
The stadiums are actually paid for by the tax payers.
Which is bullshit. That I think most everyone can agree. Even as a fan of the NFL I think it’s bullshit. The NFL most certainly has the money and ability to build it themselves.
Oh, sure there are distinctions . I’ll grant you that. But to me, your argument does not add up to a compelling justification for the different attitudes to two similar situations.
Either employers can or cannot suppress the first amendment rights of employees while on the job.
I see no justification for civil employers to have special rights in that regard. Nor private employers to be under more constraints.
I agree with what he said, mostly, but let’s face it you can’t make a public statement in uniform from in a cop car probably on the clock too. or in a Home Depot uniform from inside their store on the clock, and so on. his employer had the right to ask him to take it down. he can make his own personal video outside of work and state that he’s saying this as a current police officer and talk all about what he does and the people he works with and his employer’s policies. that should be okay. but that isn’t what he did.
Local to me, sounds like a solid guy. There are not many cops like him in this area, he is the minority for sure.
The man deserves what he gets I myself served in the marine corps in Vietnam for 28 months and followed my orders to the letter after while I became a police officer for another 44 years this man is a disgrace to his badge and his oath in 43 years I never lost sight of another persons rights and never ever did I hear ‘I’m going out and arrest a black persons “ and I worked 7 days a week 100 hours each week ….disgraceful
They never taught you how to write in basic English in any of those jobs?
For 44 years he worked 100 hours a week. And he’s the sole owner of the Brooklyn Bridge.
It’s only 220,000 hours or so. LOL.
Followed your orders to the letter as you said. You are the problem not him. You haven’t been watching the news the last few months either. Many governors and mayors have instituted many violations of our constitutional rights. Look at Michigan, you cannot even go out on your own boat. Lake Superior is the largest fresh water lake in the world, how many people are you going to contact on this lake. Nobody, that is who. The governor is violating rights like crazy in Michigan, she doesn’t care. You swore an oath to support and defend the constitution as part of your oath when you were in the Marines and as a police officer. When your superiors give you orders that violates that oath, that is where you need to refuse those orders and seek for that superior to resign or be fired for failure to support the oath that you swore to defend. History does in fact repeat itself over and over, your story sounds just like all the Nazi’s did during World War II, “I was just obeying my orders.” You are no different than all the Nazi’s who willing murdered and sent innocent people to their deaths in concentration camps for following orders. Once a kiss butt always a kiss butt though, probably how you made it to retirement.
and how many of those that were tried for war crimes said they were “just following orders” or plead ignorance? all of them. was that a valid excuse to the courts? no.
if a cop thinks he can’t follow orders or policies due to a perceived unconstitutionality, and his superiors have a problem with that, the cop might remind them how it goes with people “just following orders” and the consequences apply to them too.
I’m former Army and PD. There’s always been a double standard in uniform. And it ain’t right.
Carrying out unconstitutional orders are illegal and should stand on its own merits. But like I said, there’s always been a double standard.
If his Union has the balls to stand up against the Brass, they need to get him a high profile constitutional attorney and ram it up their ass.
Even a regular Union attorney can prove historically that there was a disparity in how he was treated/terminated for expressing his 1st amendment rights.
For example, other officers who’ve expressed their personal views in uniform, on the clock and in public (on a regular basis) because they are ethnic or gay female, often get full protection.
I used to work for a West Coast PD in CA where if you were an incompetent POS officer but very vocal like Anderson, not only did you keep your job, you got promoted! Failing evaluations during FTO didn’t matter because you were considered a “protected class” and in essence, were untouchable. So if you were an ethnic gay female, chances were you secured a Brass pension and operated with impunity. The State of Washington is very similar in politics.
Yes, chances are Anderson violated departmental policy, but if his department or superiors have established a precedence with similar issues in the past, he may have a good case against them for discrimination and wrongful termination based on a disparity of treatment.
These double standards exist, and he’s a minority in many ways.
He’s a whistle blower, and his Voice should not be silenced and his life be punished.
But his agency could care less because he’s exposing them and speaking out in defiance, the TRUTH. Why, cuz he’s an E-Nuthin’ Warrior Vet with a spine?
I guess it doesn’t help that he’s a Straight White Male with Brains.
Good luck and Godspeed Officer Anderson. I’ll be busting out my credit card when I get home. In the meantime, you’ll always be “10-8” in my book.
Totally agree with you on your statement, they are afraid to stand up for the right thing. Most of the west coast is controlled by liberals anyway. They will just get some idiot to replace him who cannot think for themselves.
Yup. Cryin frickin shame.
We Are Borg
His chief put up a statement on the PoS website:
https://www.portseattle.org/about/port-police
Thanks for the link. I read it. Laughable. What most people don’t understand is that these blanket policies of being in uniform are violated all the time and at every rank. That’s why the totality of the circumstances should be reviewed as well as discretion of departmental action. Of course there’s limits, but Anderson was moral and honorable, so his policy violation does not warrant termination. If I had a nickel for every cop that did personal shit on the clock and in uniform, I swear, they’d all be unemployed. Including the Chief. Shit, Brass are some of the biggest violators. Picking up personal dry cleaning while double parking, scrubbing their own parking tickets, drinking on the job, sexual harassment. The list goes on and on. The hypocrisy is so thick, you choke. Any veteran who served in uniform wether military or paramilitary knows this shit. It’s bullshit politics.
If you get drunk and crash into someone that can be forgiven (sometimes) but if you embarrass the chief, you’re finished.
That’s one rule that applies almost everywhere. Especially where the unions are weak (and police unions/FOPs are weak compared to what people think they are… with the exception of NJ\NY area).
Once a stepper. Always a stepper.
He just want to go to church.
Says a guy who repeatedly spouts nazi propaganda. Takes one to know one I guess.
Officer Anderson’s video has most likely violated department policy. He should have done it from his private vehicle in civilian clothing. However, even if he violated policy where is the damage? He should have received a simple verbal reprimand and then a pat on the back from his administration. Case closed. His actions did not bring any defamation on his department.
Officer Anderson please consider a move to central or eastern Washington. It’s a great place to live, raise a family with great outdoor recreational opportunities. Relatively low crime rates and you will be appreciated for your honor and values.
Or the peninsula 🙂
Several counties’ SOs have deputy openings. (And don’t enforce I-1639)
Perhaps violated policy by including dept vehicle and uniform though no departmentally identifiable items were visible.
He mentioned in his vid a deal for just a letter of reprimand if he took it down but then says why he kept it up.
Methinks PoS Chief Covey got a call from Gov Inslee.
Anyone in office elected or appointed that goes against the constitution, needs to be thrown out of office and tried for treason!!!
I don’t have a problem with what he said however, he’s wearing a department uniform, in a department vehicle and probably on department time which means he probably violated several policies. If he had done the same thing on his time and not brought his PD into it, there probably isn’t much they could have done. It’s not good to video yourself breaking policy.
The thrust and importance of the video is being overlooked by many commenters. The issue is not whether or not the cop’s free speech is being violated. The issue is not whether the cop should face consequences that could have been avoided by posing as only a private citizen. The issue is not whether the cop can find other employment. The issue is the message.
What the cop on video is saying is more important than all the other considerations. The video poster/creator is saying: “I am a commissioned police officer. I am declaring to the public, to the citizens of the city, state and nation that I will not violate my oath to defend the constitution, regardless of who in my department, city or state may command me to do so. I am declaring to the public my refusal to violate your constitutional rights in order to please politicians, or to protect my job. You have nothing to fear from me in that regard.”
How in the world could that statement be published as a private person, with no affiliation to the power structure, with no authority of arrest or other means of depriving someone of their constitutionally-protected rights? To sit in his home, in his underwear and proclaim: “Hi. I am Whooz Disguy, a private citizen of no particular note, with nothing better to do. To whoever may access this video, I promise to take no action to violate your rights under the constitution. Thought you might need to know that.”?
While certainly protected from disciplinary action from local and state authorities, the proclamation is pointless, useless and laughable.
The cop knew what he was doing. He took a principled stand, and told “the world” his oath of honor was more important than a paycheck, that the public had a right to know that the chain of authority could not be counted upon to make the same decision.
That was the message. Only one way to deliver it.
^^^👆^^^ 👏
Simple solution? Stop voting Democrats into power! Liberal Mayors “appoint” liberal police chiefs, who in turn promote liberal Captains, Lieutenants, and Sergeants. Patrol officers who want to keep their careers are forced to keep their opinions to themselves. It is no coincidence that liberal ran police departments are more likely to have quotas, racially profile people, more corruption, more complaints of excessive force.
I applaud officer Anderson’s resolve to stand up for liberty! I too would gladly give up my job rather than violate citizens constitutional rights.
This doesn’t sound like anything but what it is. Finally someone is fed up with the ignorance surrounding our constitution….the “rule of law” for the nation for over 230 years.
I’m sure there are “some” in Seattle who would rather have “another” law take precedence over out Constitution.
And, NO ONE is forced to contribute to a “Go Fund Me” page.
Clint Eastwood said it best. “If you could reason with a Democrat, there would be no Democrats”
Matt above is correct. He should take down the video and rerecord it in civvies; when in uniform he represents the PD.
Defying unconstitutional orders is literally his job. In uniform was appropriate. I hope his union backs him.
No wonder you get the feeling that too many cops today just are in it for the paycheck and retirement. Who can blame them???
If I was a police Officer I would take my time responding to calls (who needs to be sued), I would carry out all superior’s orders no matter how utterly stupid they are (who wants to be written up for insubordination) and I would do my best to avoid making arrests (who wants to be raked over the coals and made out to be a liar in court) by some piss ant lawyer while the 25 year old prosecutor sits there dazed & confused.
Who needs this bull shit????????
Maybe he’s ready to get out of Seattle into “Free Washington” ? He had to know that on duty, in uniform, you don’t get to voice your opinion. Of course, when many cops were forced to stand behind Clinton/etc. in uniform to look like they supported ’em, different story . Hope the GoFundMe satisfies his financial requirements for a while . Still, good to see any LEO actually taking his oath seriously.
“I was just following orders.” Yeah, that excuse didn’t work at Nuremberg, so don’t think for a moment that it will fly again.
Sue the mthrfkrs for circumventing the constitution, putting you in unnecessary harm!
Coming from a cop & military family, I donated. He’s a rare bird. Especially from the Army! Yut! Godspeed buddy…
Why do I have a feeling most law enforcement won’t react like this person? I sure hope I’m wrong. The “follow the leader” crap is what got us here in the first place. I commend him to the highest honor to stand with principle regardless of the consequences he may incur. I will gladly donate to his go fund me page. He exemplifies what this country needs most, sensibility, ethics, humanity and guts to stand by what is right and just!! Anyone with ANY common sense realizes that Officer Greg is a TRUE HERO, not some nurse or doctor doing their normal job. Being around sick people is what you get when you agree to become part of the medical/Big Pharma cult. That’s exactly what they signed up for. What Officer Greg has done is way beyond what he signed up for, and for that, I salute you sir!!!!!!
Defying the Governor when appropriate is literally part of a police officers job description. WTF?
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