It has become a hallmark of advice from lawyers: do not give consent to police to search your vehicle or your home. If they had probable cause to search, they don’t need to ask. Politely refuse to give consent. Believing that you “have nothing to hide” is escapist fantasy in today’s world of overlapping and vague laws. Are you certain that the pretty bird feather that your daughter picked up on your walk and left under the back seat isn’t from a common owl or hawk?

Possession of an owl or  hawk feather is a federal crime. Did an empty .22 shell slip out of your range bag and under the seat of the car? It’s a crime in D.C.  In this case, Chris Johnson, NFL player, has a Florida concealed carry permit. When he was pulled over (DWB?), he thought he had “nothing to hide.”  From nfl.com:

NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported that the 29-year-old was pulled over for rolling through a stop sign, per a source close to the player. The police officer asked to search his car. Johnson cooperated, as he had nothing to hide. The police found his licensed and registered firearm under a book bag under his seat instead of locked up in the car.

In a later version of the story, the New York Daily News publishes a different tale. In this version, the police officer says that when he came up to the window of Chris Johnson’s car and looked inside he saw the handle of the pistol between Johnson’s feet. This version is a little more supportable for the “open carry” charge, but Florida has a“brief and open” display exception in their concealed carry law that seems tailor made for such situations.

The “open carry” charge seems quite a stretch, either way. If the officer had to search the vehicle to find the firearm, it was clearly concealed, and Johnson was not violating the law because he has a concealed carry permit. If the officer could only see the firearm by coming up close to the window and looking in, it is quite a stretch to say that he was openly carrying the firearm, under the “brief and open” display exception.

Officers who ask to search your car are trained to make the request casual and seeming off the cuff. Do not expect the officer to ask “do you surrender your 4th amendment rights to protection from unreasonable searches?” in an official tone of voice.

The request is likely to start off low-key and informal. “Do you mind if I have a look in your car?” is a common approach. Intimidation may be used if you make a polite refusal. “If you don’t let me look in your car, I will have to get a warrant, and then you will be in trouble,” may be stated in a more threatening manner.

The answer to all these requests should be the same: no, I do not give consent to search my car. I do not surrender any of my constitutional rights. Am I free to go? It’s even better if you record these interactions with the police. (The ability to record police in the public performance of their duties has been ruled a first amendment right.) That way there will be no “he said/she said” as seems to be developing in the Johnson case.

Johnson is vulnerable because he is subject to extra-judicial punishments from the NFL. The NFL is owned by powerful people who fully endorse the disarmist agenda. His career may be significantly hurt for daring to exercise his second amendment rights.

©2015 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Link to Gun Watch

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120 COMMENTS

  1. “Mind if I have a look?” “Sir, I want to leave the area, am I free to go?” Politely repeat as often as necessary.

    • “Do you mind if I have a look in your car?”

      “Do you mind if I refuse consent? Respectfully, I mean.”

      As long as this isn’t said in a smart-ass tone, it seems to me the best move. It gives the cop the illusion of control, because he/she has the perceived power to either “mind” or not. Just as the officer is casually asking, you’re indicating your refusal in an equally casual, nonconfrontational manner. It gives the cop the opportunity to be magnanimous, but it also allows you to escalate to something like “Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough, Officer: I do not consent to any searches.”

      • That’s along the lines of how I handle it…

        I usually do this:

        “Officer, please understand I mean no disrespect… With a warrant you may search my car.

        I am fully aware that with a radio call you can get that warrant.

        Only with a warrant only you may search my car.”

        • Simple question:

          Why should I have to assert my rights in a simpering, non-threatening manner, like some sort of servent begging not to be beaten? He knows he needs a warrant, and doesn’t need you to passively direct him to get one.

          “No Sir, and such an underhanded request is an insult to both of us.”

          The fact that an answer like that is considered unacceptable means your 4th ammendment rights have been functionally reduced to the whim of the police state.

        • It’s smart to kiss their asses like this, but absolutely disgusting that it is necessary lest they come down on you for ‘contempt of cop’.

        • Skeptical_Realist You can be both polite and assertive at the same time. Being confrontational won’t get you home any faster.

        • “Simple question:

          Why should I have to assert my rights in a simpering, non-threatening manner, like some sort of servent begging not to be beaten?”

          Motivate that cop by pissing him off and it’s a near certainty you well have a very bad and expensive day.

          If you want to pull the ‘my rights’ card delivered with an attitude you go right on ahead.

          My goal is to get to where I’m going with the least aggravation as possible.

          Simple enough answer for you?

        • “Why should I have to assert my rights in a simpering, non-threatening manner, like some sort of servent begging not to be beaten? He knows he needs a warrant, and doesn’t need you to passively direct him to get one.” – Skeptical_Realist

          Cops don’t need a warrant when they can openly see the evidence. So if you have a bong on your front seat, four beer bottles on the passenger floor, and your friends in the back passing a joint: I think it’s safe to say that he doesn’t need a warrant to arrest you — and the reason not to be argumentative, is because he will look for any small reason he can find, from something as small as a broken tail light to not picking your nose the right way, to give you a ticket (and he can legally do so even if that wasn’t the reason for the stop) – or he could have you wait in your car for 20 minutes —

          — and all for one reason: because you decided it was important to assert that you’re an asshole.

          P.S. Just so you know, cops can also say they just want to have a conversation in your home, and then arrest you for anything illegal they just happen to see while in your home. If you invited them in for a talk, they don’t need a warrant.

          I think this video describes it best:

          http://youtu.be/wg8FAoFa0gU

        • @Skeptical_Realist says:
          Simple question:

          Why should I have to assert my rights in a simpering, non-threatening manner, like some sort of servent begging not to be beaten? He knows he needs a warrant, and doesn’t need you to passively direct him to get one.

          I think you may have missed my point. Being casual and non confrontational (which you have every right to view as simpering and like a servant begging not to be beaten) is simply responding to the cop’s casual, non-threatening approach using the exact same tactic he’s trying to use on you. Wise cops use this approach because it works and because they can always escalate if it doesn’t.

          More important, why make a cop nervous or angry? And for Pete’s sake, why humiliate him? That could be a very costly way to make a point. In any case, I really doubt that any cop ever thought, “Wow, that guy really showed me who’s boss” while Tasering some guy who knew his rights.

        • Cops don’t need a warrant when they can openly see the evidence.

          And if the police has such probable cause, he doesn’t have to ask for your consent, either.

          if the officer is asking for consent, he doesn’t have probable cause. By consenting, you only serve to give up your constitutionally protected rights.

          “If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.”

          “Well, officer, if you had probable cause that I’ve done anything wrong, you wouldn’t need to ask for my consent. Am I free to go?”

      • “Do you mind if I refuse consent” is not refusing consent; it’s asking the officer what his/her reaction would be if you did refuse. “Respectfully, I mean” tells the LEO that s/he had the option of taking your previous answer in a disrespectful manner; you just gave them the OK to take either way. Bad responses, both.

        Just say “No, I do not give permission. May I please leave?” Keep saying it if you have to. If it escalates, say “I want to speak to my lawyer” and nothing else.

      • Unless you are video taping you will be arrested for daring to ask for a warrant 9 times out of 10

    • “Mind if I have a look in your car?”

      “I’d rather you didn’t without telling me what you’re looking for.”

      Of course, my first line of defense is to follow traffic laws and not do something to attract attention in the first case.

      • officer “may I search your car?”
        me ” no sir, id rather you not”
        officer ” that means your guilty”
        me” ummmm no it doesn’t!”

        officer reaches in car pulls out case with pocket knife in it.

        me ” you realize this is now an illegal search, I would like you to call the sheriff to this stop please”
        officer hands back knife ” you can leave”

      • The shock part was that they actually convicted him, not that there was video evidence!

    • If they can see into the inside of your car, I don’t think you need to “let” them look into your vehicle. Any evidence is already openly visible, and they can arrest you for anything that is openly visible without a warrant.

    • Frak, cops here get people on probation or parole to plant drugs — it’s easy, because the law requires people with a PO to obey all orders of officers of the law.

      BTW, it seems every time I come to this site any more my internet protection software has to block something from invading my computer to steal data. What gives?

      • “BTW, it seems every time I come to this site any more my internet protection software has to block something from invading my computer to steal data. What gives?”

        Happens sometimes when hackers inject ads from affiliates with malware, or google determines that there is unsafe content on an affiliate site. Other times the site is DDoSed by people with anti-gun sentiments because they’re severely anally hurt.

        I’m not getting any notifications at this time, what is it that you’re experiencing right now?

  3. Be polite, be respectful, refuse consent to search. Even if your not carrying anything, even if your car is as clean as a church picnic.

    They can bully, intimidate, lie, say anything they want to get you to capitulate. Don’t . If your in the right, sober, and have done no wrong except for a FL tag traveling through MD, where they enjoy such things.
    Do not comply! Yes Sir, No Sir. And STFU.

    Sorry for the rant. I don’t do drugs, have an immaculate vehicle, all the lights work and reg, and ins. are current and legal. So uh,..,., just complying to a Constitutional gray area, that favors only the cops, police tactic isn’t flying with me. I’m not the problem jack boots. Recognize and differentiate. Part of your training yes?

    • Your completely right. And I am shocked at the amount of people who not only don’t know this, but are aware and actually petrified of doing. Actually I shouldnt be shocked. I was recently having a conversation with two friends and I explained this to them. I told them about their rights and all. They responded with absolute anger and fear, saying that if you talked like that to a cop they could arrest you immediately for not complying. People are not only ignorant sheep these days, they are willful sheep. It sickens me.

      • The ONLY orders we are required to follow are LAWFUL orders. Consenting to a search being “demanded” or requested, wiht no evidence or probable cause, is NOT a lawful order. Stand your ground, and DO NOT consent to any searches just cause the cop ASKS. Even if he’s getting huffy. Unless he has sopecific articulable probable cause indicating criminal activity is going on, in other words, unless he can swear before a judge such and such that constitutes lawful probable cause for that judge to issue a warrant, he has no cause for a search. If you grant permission, anything he finds is fair game, and WILL be used to charge you. He’s on a fishing expedition, but has no bait.. until YOU provide it by consenting. If I am driving in New Jersey, get pulled over for whatever, he askes to search and has no grounds, and I refuse… anything he finds when he searches anyway is inadmissible. If I consent, anything he finds will put me in jail. I have learned that in NK, mere possession of a round of hollow point defensive ammunition is a felony… one charge for each round. SO, even if I leave my daily carry gun in Pennsylvania, drive into Cherry Hill, get pulled over, and have forgotten to leave the spare mag prepped with JHP ammunition (the one that is in my pocket this very second, though I am not armed…..) I now have seven folonies charged against me. How hard is it to forget to remove the spare mag?

        If I refuse consent and he finds it, his evidence is inadmiissible, If I give permission, I am locket up for thirty five years. For seven one-dollar rounds I carry wiht me everywhere in the western US? Get real… but that is the sick state New Jersey is. DO NOT CONSENT.

  6. If you do not consent, they will probably search your car anyway. They can get a warrant or claim a number of exceptions to the warrant requirement. But, a good lawyer can challenge the search or the warrant.

    No lawyer can defeat your consent to a search.

    • Disagree. As others have said, most cops aren’t going to take the time to get a warrant for a normal stop. Just keep refusing. Make them work if they want it that bad.

  7. If he does anything besides leave after you say no turn your voice record or camera on and tape everythig you can.

    Then, hire a lawyer and go after his sorry ass.

    from a cop that can’t stand oath breakers

  9. For what it’s worth, on my best day it would take 2-3 hours to write an affidavit and search warrant. Then I had to drive a half hour to find a judge, half an hour for him to read it and maybe approve it, half an hour drive back….
    Normal traffic stops are normally limited to 20 minutes. (Case law). Any longer than that and they better have a good reason for the detention.

    • Affirmative.

      And y’all need to get creative.
      Officer: Do you mind if I search your car?
      Driver: Do you mind if I search yours? I just want to make sure you aren’t violating any of your departments policies, all your brake lights work, your tires have sufficient tread depth and are properly inflated, that your first aid kit is fully stocked, that the 02 tank is full, that your flares are capped, that your fire extinguisher is inspected and full, that your push bumpers are properly coated with rubber, that your windshield isn’t cracked, that your RADAR / LIDAR / Speedometer is properly calibrated, etc.

    • What are the references to the case law?

      About 5 yrs ago was cruising into Portland at 10 pm ish, while driving my girlfriends car. I was pulled over by an OSP officer because he didn’t like the rear license plate Proudly displayed in the rear window.
      I had just been to a big box building supply for hardware and PVC conduit. The Store employee cut down and taped the 2 pieces together so I could get it into the toyota.

      He asked to see in the trunk , I told him “NO” ….
      Well, apparently the cop made some sort of jump that the PVC meant I must have POT in the car.
      I Never have had or smoked Pot!
      He kept badgering me that I could just tell him I had pot. I kept telling him I did not and then I held out my wrists telling him if he thought I had something to take me in. He basically kept me there about an 1 hour and15 min, as He tried to locate a jurisdiction with a K9 unit to come walk around the car.
      K9 patrol from 15 miles away finally showed up, car was cleared,

      I asked the cop why he thought I had to have pot in the car?

      officer- you have taped up pipe in you car and my training told me …
      I told him it was 10 foot long, the store clerk cut it and taped it together so it would fit in the car and stay together……
      officer- OH!

      I SHOUT from the rooftops! STAND YOUR GROUND !
      DO NOT GIVE a cop PERMISSION to search anything,
      just say ” NO” !

  10. The other thing that I have seen with police is them asking for something using a command voice. Instead of ending the question on an up note (which is typical of questions in English), it is ended on a down note. At least here in CO, some of the police are taught this. Thus, if you read what they say, it sounds like a question, but it sounds like a command when asked by the police.

    The reason that you want to ask if you can leave is that if they say no, then arguably you are under arrest. And, anything that is said between that point and when you are Mirandaized can be suppressed, and, maybe anything flowing from that. You don’t need to be in hand cuffs to be arrested, nor do they need any magic words. They just need to keep you from leaving. Of course, if you don’t try to leave, it is your problem, not theirs. And, the police know this good and well.

    Note that the above was not a legal opinion, and should not be relied upon, without talking to someone licensed to practice law in the relevant jurisdiction.

    • This is an interesting question. If you are stopped, apparently not being detained, but the cop stops talking to you and just walks away . . . or asks you to wait and then walks away, what then? I’ve seen videos where people are just left standing and repeatedly asking if they’re being detained and are they free to leave, but the cops refuse to say yes or no and just keep telling them to wait. That seems to be a stalling tactic built around creating ambiguity. Is just asking you to wait the same as telling you to wait? Do officers have to tell you if you’re free to go?

      • Well, depending on the specific circumstances, it’s a bit of a grey area. Courts have held that police standing in a way that intimidates people into thinking they will be stopped if they try to walk away can mean someone is detained, or putting the emergency lights on to ward off traffic while you talk to someone on the sidewalk. At the same time, I won’t tell someone to wait when they ask that question if I have a legitimate reason to detain them.

        Personally, I like to tell people up front why I’m talking to them. “Someone called 911 about a fight, and you look like the guys they described. Do you have your ID with you? Why? Because I’m investigating an assault, and you match the suspect description, that’s why.” If I don’t have a legitimate reason, I don’t say it in so many words, but I won’t push the issue. “Hey, do you have your ID with you? Why? Well, the boss likes me to know who I’m talking to. Do you have to? No, you’re not legally required to right now.”

        Here’s what I would do if you’re on the receiving end of one of those grey area situations. “Am I free to go? What’s the hurry? I don’t understand, if you’re not telling me I am required to stay here, then I am going to leave.” If you still don’t get a clear response, then start to walk away. This forces the issue, and at the very least, you will get a clear answer. More likely, you will be allowed to leave. Worst case, if you end up unlawfully detained, you’ve laid the foundation for a good lawsuit against the agency responsible.

        • This is sound advice. Thanks. I’m never as a**hole when I talk to cops but there’s always that outlier moment when the you’re 6th sense says “you need to leave here right now”.

        • About 20 years ago I was pulled over for suspicion of DUI after closing my bar at 2:30 am. I hadn’t had a single drink in several days, but because I ran a bar they thought it was a “sure thing”, plus someone who I had fired reported I had been leaving frequently intoxicated. So, with no odor of alcohol present, cop says exit the vehicle for a field sobriety test, which they said I failed. Handcuffed and taken to the P.D., where BAC was negative (No alcohol). Then the cops huddled in hallway, two of them came in and said “we’re taking you to hospital for blood tests”. Handcuffed again, taken to hospital where the nurse said “you’re blood pressure is up”…lol, wonder why? Back to the station where they wrote DUI stating blood tests detected drugs in my system, so they took my license and I posted bond. They said the blood test results will be here in a few hours. By this time it was 5:00 am. I called the hospital at 6:00am and they told me the results were “0 percent” all the way down the line. I told the Sargent my lawyer was going to have a field day with this one, and his response, “I love lawyers who have field days”. My lawyer called the chief, and he promptly turned the matter over to the city’s insurance, and a out of court settlement check was issued for $10,000.00 within two weeks. For a long time they wouldn’t mess with me after that, but recently, some cops who don’t really know me are again beginning to act in a smartass way upon every contact. Well, we’ll see in the future……LOL

      • I’m pretty sure if they don’t answer, just start walking away slowly and you’ll find out real quick whether you’re being detained or not.

  11. Point being, if I’m fitting the profile in a given town, city, or munincipality, (yes beat patrol cops profile, and have been for a while). Than it’s an episode of COPS.

    But if I’m leaving Appleby’s with my family, and have a license plate bulb out, or am doing 44 in a 35, and am carrying lawfully, I do not deserve Gestapo tactics that would otherwise deserve jack booted practices that work 99 out of 100 times in the inner city ghettos.

    I don’t need this. We don’t need this. Let alone deserve this. If your an f up, than you get what’s coming.

    Cops need to realize that it’s ok to write me ticket for speeding, burned out tail light, ok I got it. But I’m not guilty until proven innocent. Not a threat to National Security, and the Cops need to know the difference. Thankfully, most of them do. Sadly, they all don’t.

    The Jack booted thug tactics don’t work all the time. They need to know the difference.

    • I do not deserve Gestapo tactics that would otherwise deserve jack booted practices that work 99 out of 100 times in the inner city ghettos.

      I don’t need this. We don’t need this. Let alone deserve this.

      There’s nothing special about you in the eyes of the law. Nobody deserves jack booted practices. Full stop.

      If your an f up, than you get what’s coming.

      Even f-ups have rights.

      Cops need to realize that it’s ok to write me ticket for speeding, burned out tail light, ok I got it. But I’m not guilty until proven innocent. Not a threat to National Security, and the Cops need to know the difference. Thankfully, most of them do. Sadly, they all don’t.

      What you allow for those you despise or think so lowly of, will eventually be practiced on you. Your whole posts reads like you think you’re some special snowflake or something. Yeah, there are hardened criminals and the like BUT the rule of law and recognition of rights doesn’t change from individual to individual. Let me guess, you support torture too… just as long as you aren’t the one being tortured.

      The Jack booted thug tactics don’t work all the time. They need to know the difference.

      Jack booted thug tactics have NO place being used by agents of our government; at any time, in any place, against anyone. It’s a violation of rights.

      • Uh, have you watched the news lately? The cops that Murdered homeless transient Boyd in NM, are being brought up on charges. One cop said, with his lapel cam, I’m going to shoot him in the nuts. He had a 12 guage and shot him in the back.
        Troll somewhere else.
        Watch the episodes of COPS. If you act a thug, your treated as such. Since you can’t differentiate a law abiding citizen foregoing his Constitutional Rights, to abide by a thug, I suggest more research on your part. We do not live in a police state, but yet between MRAPS, and exponential SWAT team deployments, I’m the snowflake?
        Please.

        • Uh, have you watched the news lately?

          Uh, I’ve been on the news recently. 😉

          The cops that Murdered homeless transient Boyd in NM, are being brought up on charges. One cop said, with his lapel cam, I’m going to shoot him in the nuts. He had a 12 guage and shot him in the back.

          Yeah, it’s about damned time. What’s your point?

          Troll somewhere else.

          Sift through TTAG article comments. I’ve been here a while and am not trolling.

          Watch the episodes of COPS. If you act a thug, your treated as such.

          I gather some of my experiences first hand on the street whereas you apparently get yours from a television program? No thank you. I prefer reality and not reality TV.

          Since you can’t differentiate a law abiding citizen foregoing his Constitutional Rights, to abide by a thug,

          Please explain how someone is forgoing his constitutional rights prior to due process.

          I suggest more research on your part.

          I think you have that backwards or this is just a simple misunderstanding.

          We do not live in a police state,

          Yes, we do. It might not be as egregious as others are anticipating but it is a police state. NSA ring a bell? Torture? etc…

          but yet between MRAPS, and exponential SWAT team deployments, I’m the snowflake?

          I don’t know what police states, MRAPs and SWAT have to do with it but, yes, you’re the snowflake. Your post was all about how you ought to have your rights respected but others not so much.

          If I misunderstood your initial post then please set me straight.

        • COPS is propaganda for a police state. Its function is to get citizens accustomed to cops behaaving badly so they think they have to put up with it.

      • ^^^ this x 1000. It’s interesting to see liberty minded folk and neo cons collide on our beloved ttag regularly.

      • WTF???

        Not sure what OP said that got your panties in a snit but he is correct. I realize that being a LEO is a dangerous job and that any a$$head they meet might not be carrying an AK like the terrorists in Paris but departments do need to teach their officers how to at least be cordial. If I’m making 00000 threatening moves or being outright belligerent, then the LEO does not need to act like a freaking thug…..PERIOD. Not because I was born with a silver toenail or something….it’s good PR. Look at what is happening across the nation to departments now. Because they have let these asshead reside on their force, they and all their other members are being given a black eye. Weed those assheads out. You can be polite and still be safe…..with a bit of common sense and training.

        • in other words, too often the coppers forget who writes their paycheck, and to whom they are ultimatly responsible. If they’d bear that in mind a bit more often, these jackbooted thug accusations would have no basis in fact,. I’ve been stopped and terrorised by Portland Oregon cops twice now… both times they tried very hard to provoke me to a physical attack… one time it was dark and cold out, three cars and six cops joined the circus, they didn’t figure I’d have my window all the way down whilst they were back at the primary car having their pow-wow, and I could hear every word they were saying. They were discussing ways they could provoke to get physical so they could take me down and haul me in. In the end he wrote for a headlamp out that wasn’t.. not a fix it, a moving. I went to court but the slimeball never showed. Judge dismissed. I wish I’d had the means to record their conversation back at the contact car. I’d have brought it to their sargeant. Scum!!!

    • Lewis was involved in two knife murders. He testified against his bodyguards and pleaded to a misdemeanor obstruction charge for making a false statement to cops (instead of just keeping his mouth shut). He made no 2A plea. He did not lose his job. His bodyguards were acquitted.

      Burress shot himself in the leg while at a nightclub in NYC, where he was not authorized to carry. He also made no 2A plea, just a simple plea of guilty. He served his time and was reinstated with the NFL, where he played for parts of two years after his release.

      So your statement has nothing to do with anything and you were just making a wise@ss comment. Hey, I don’t mind wise@sses comments, but yours wasn’t a good one.

  13. Refusing to surrender your 4th Amendment-recognized right to a courageous hero LEO? You must be a cop-hater!

    • It’s unfortunate and sad, but cops seem bound and determined to turn everybody into cop haters. It would be so easy for the police to turn this whole situation around, but they just won’t.

      • I just watched a video from the OSU celebrations. There are now hundreds of young adults who now have a distrust of the police. We cannot sustain this course. The state and it’s agents need to be reeled in NOW.

  14. “Possession of an owl or hawk feather is a federal crime.”

    So an owl is in my yard…drops a feather…and I’m a felon if I pick it up?

  15. I hope I never have to test out you guys theories in Cook co,il. And this old man has nothing to hide either. On another cop note a Park Forest,Illinois cop is on trial for shooting a 95year old man with a bean bag shotgun in a nursing home(more of a retirement /assisted living facility. WW2 vet. WHITE man-BLACK cop. And they were laughing and joking about it. Old guy had a golf club and a knife. Dead because the cop was following procedures. Virtually NO national publicity on this murder…this is worth protesting.

    • I hadn’t heard anything about that story, so I looked it up. You’re right; that’s a much better case to get worked up over than most. A plainly egregious case of police using excessive force without any reason for it. Sickening.

      • I doubt the Park Forest,Il officer will get anything more than a slap on the wrist. We lived in Park Forest 20years ago and the village and especially the PO-leece were total a##wipes. Probably because of a pitiful tax base and “changing” racial demographics…but yeah this MURDER of a 95year old vet deserves a much brighter spotlight…

    • Honestly, the part about that story that surprises me the most is that the cop is actually being prosecuted for what amounts to murder. It’s depressingly rare.

  16. “The NFL is owned by powerful people who fully endorse the disarmist agenda.”

    Yes, we know that here in Washington state with the money that poured in to the I-594 campaign.

    “Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen has donated $500,000 to a campaign seeking to expand background checks on gun sales in Washington state.”

    Sorry hawks fans.

  18. My lawyer brother has always told me to politely answer any LEO’s questions with a “yes, sir”, or a “no, sir,” and to calmly defer any other questions to him via speed dial if necessary. Point being that you don’t have to be a douchebag or a pantywaist–in the immortal words of Dalton, “be nice”.

  19. Reminds me of what was going on around here a few years ago in Northern California. There was this sudden slew of “traffic stops” on I-5 by the CHP, all of which resulted in narcotics officers and drug dogs being called to the scene, and arrests being made. By sudden slew, I mean one or two a week when before there had been none. Finally, someone filed a civil suit contending that the officers were using illegal racial profiling to pull suspects over, then intimidating them into giving consent to search. The suit was tossed by a local judge based on “testimony” saying it just wasn’t so. But the funny thing is I haven’t heard of a single stop since.

    I once had an officer on the stand, and the more I cross-examined him, the more he started inventing things. A simple story was chock full of lies, things that could not possibly have happened–yet the judge believed him.

  20. Even with a CWFL, you are subject to arrest in Florida, where there is no right to bear arms. You have a privilege to carry concealed but you may have to prove to the trial court that you have an exception to the ban on concealed carry. The second amendment historically only applies to open carry, which is nearly banned in Floriduh (New Jersey lite with palm trees).

    • Total BS.

      Florida does have the Right to Bear Arms. You can own a firearm in your home or vehicle without a license as long as you aren’t a felon.There is no ban on concealed carry either, it’s easy to get a license as long as you provide the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services with a passport photo, take a 3 or 4 hour CC or Basic Gun Safety course(which you should have done when you first got your weapon anyway), get fingerprinted, and pay your fee. NO STATE is going to simply give you a licence without going through any of that, it’s no different than any other state. As long as you fulfill those requirements and don’t have a criminal past, or are otherwise barred from owning a firearm, and are a citizen, you are almost guaranteed to get a license. FL also has CWFL reciprocity, but only with states that recognize our license.

      • Taking a license is not the exercise of a right. It is the exercise of a privilege. They are not the same. Arguably, Floridians enjoy the right to bear arms when fishing though.

        Keeping a firearm in a home or vehicle is keeping arms, not bearing. If Florida truly respects the right to bear arms then people in that state would be able to bear a handgun on their persons without further permit or license while going about their everyday lives.

      • John – Total B.S.
        “NO STATE is going to simply give you a license without going through any of that, it’s no different than any other state. As long as you fulfill those requirements and don’t have a criminal past, or are otherwise barred from owning a firearm, and are a citizen, you are almost guaranteed to get a license. FL also has CWFL reciprocity, but only with states that recognize our license.”
        Virginia – Shall issue. State recognized training course required unless proven history of experience or training such as military service. No finger prints. Simple background check, same as buying a gun. I got mine in 7 days. But several states have NO requirements and are considered Constitutional Carry. They issue CWPs for reciprocity purposes only. Remember, never say never. There are NO absolutes. Now that’s an oxymoron.

        • Do you realize you’re actually agreeing with John? He says that no state simply gives you a CHL without some hoops to jump through. You said he was wrong, then went on to point out how the Virginia system works, as if the legal requirement for training and such proves him wrong, and that some states DO actually just give you permits without any requirements. Do you even understand how language works?

        • In Indiana residents can get a permit by filling out a form and paying $25. o training requirements. I think I is the ame in Alabama.

          In Vermont and Arizona no permit is required to carry concealed.

        • @Jake, he was responding to “Jon” not to “John in Ohio”

          As indicated by the fact that his response is not indented under John in Ohio’s response. Do you even know how indenting and replies work?

      • No, Floriduh does NOT recognize any RIGHT to BEAR arms. Only a privilige that you ahve to beg for, pay a bunch of money, and be treated like a convicted child rapist for the rest of your life. And, you best keep it hidden. There’s also a secret case-law legislated-from-the-bench printing ruling you’ll never find in statute. If there’s anything in your pocket that resembles the possible sort-of shape of an L, they’ll beat you to death and fix it in the report.

        This is not even close to a Right to Bear Arms, even if it is Shall Issue. A Right doesn’t require permission. A Right doesn’t require Payment. A Right doesn’t require a License. A Right doesn’t require you to hide what you’re doing or suffer the wrath of those who are supposed to be protecting your right, not attacking you for it.

  21. So a black guy gets stopped for the same violation white people get stopped for every day and you automatically start thinking “Driving While Black?” Didn’t know Al Sharpton was a contributor here.

  22. But in FL I need to disclose to cops if I have a firearm in the vehicle. So the question is: Do I still legally need to disclose that if it’s locked in a safe or in the trunk?

    • When he asks for the license and registration, hand him your carry permit as well.

      Throw the ball in his court as to how he wants to handle it.

      • But I don’t need a carry permit if it’s in my car. Question is if Floridians need to disclose info that a firearm is in the vehicle if it’s in a locked container?

        • Never had mine in a locked container in my car.

          I modified my sheepskin seat cover with a pouch up front.

          You should probably ask someone qualified to answer. A Florida concealed carry blog may help…

    • Cite your source please.

      In Florida there is NO requirement to inform a PO if you are carrying on your person OR in your car, either openly or concealed. The only compulsion is that if he/she REQUESTS your CCL then you MUST produce it to them. You may carry a firearm in your car openly IF it is properly “secured”; and there are examples of how that must be accomplished.

      • You only have to produce the permit if you are indeed carrying at that time. Read the section again… If you’re not carrying, but have a permit, you still don’t ahve to give it to him, or even acknowledge that he exists if you don’t want to… Though, their egos are pretty big down here and that kind of slight might _make_ them shoot you and fix it in the report, which is SOP.

    • FS 790.06 by strict interpretation says otherwise, basically “no”, you don’t have to. If he doesn’t ask, you don’t have to tell.

  23. Obviously not a Jay-Z fan, or he would have self-educated himself by listening to “99 Problems”:

    And I ain’t tryin’ to see no highway chase with Jake
    Plus I got a few dollars, I can fight the case
    So I pull over to the side of the road
    “Son do you know why I’m stoppin’ you for?”

    “‘Cause I’m young and I’m black and my hat’s real low
    Or do I look like a mind reader sir? I don’t know
    Am I under arrest or should I guess some mo’?”

    “Well you was doin fifty-five in the fifty-four
    License and registration and step out of the car
    Are you carryin’ a weapon on you? I know a lot of you are”

    “I ain’t steppin’ out of shit, all my papers legit”

    “Well do you mind if I look around the car a little bit?”

    “Well my glove compartment is locked, so is the trunk in the back
    And I know my rights, so you gon’ need a warrant for that”

    “Aren’t you sharp as a tack, you should try out
    For lawyer or somethin’, somebody important or somethin'”

    “Child I ain’t passed the bar, but I know a little bit
    Enough that you won’t illegally search my sh*t”

    “Well we’ll see how smart you are when the canine comes”

    “I got 99 problems, but a b*tch ain’t one…”

  24. Why sure you can search my car if you give consent to my cell camera for my uncle the Sheriff and I can come in your house and search your home computer for child porn and illegal gambling

  25. The more I read about other states, the more I appreciate NM.

    OC without a permit; most stores don’t have GFZ signs, shall issue CC, and the same rules apply to your vehicle as your home in the realm of carrying a weapon concealed or OC and the cops for the last seven years have all respected my OC without harassment.

    The couple of times a cop has stopped me for some traffic violation or a broken tail light, have all been respectful and courteous, even though I drive old beater PU’s and am now OC’ing.

    Most of the time they don’t ask to search the vehicle. The one time he did I just said “I don’t give consent” in a matter of fact tone of voice and that was the end of it.

    Another time another cop asked me where I was coming from and I said “that’s private business” and where I was going and I said “that’s private business” in a matter of fact tone of voice and that was also the end of it.

    I was private armed security at a military base for a couple of years and I noticed three type of reactions from people in reaction to an armed, uniformed and badged person with at that time and place, the power to detain if given a reason to do so.

    Some people were either obsequious or belligerent, but most were just matter of fact.

    My first reaction to the first two was that they were scared of me for some reason. I figured there was probably two reasons for the reaction, either they were threatened by my “authoritay” and that was how they dealt with that fear, (fight or flight) or they might have something to hide so I would examine their paperwork a little more carefully.

    Maybe cops might comment, but in the end, the people that just accepted that I was just doing my job and just provided the information that was needed; ID, registration and proof of insurance without a bunch of drama, got back on the road that fastest.

    I understand better after my time at the military base why I’ve never had problems with the cops I’ve encountered over the years.

    Disclaimer. This doesn’t excuse when a cop or the courts abuses the system and his or hers authority and a citizens civil rights, (such as sobriety check points) but what I am describing is my experience of basic human nature and the reactions of human beings when dealing with figures of “authority”, now from both sides of the equation.

  26. Officer douchebag charging whatever he can for anything possible. Forget about intent or victims – it’s for the money.

  27. A polite refusal , showing no disrespect, will go a long way. Being a jackass can only go bad for you.

  28. FLORIDA: If you have the pistol, note pistol, secured either by a strap or locked in place, one with a cc permit can “openly carry it, in the car in Florida. This is gone over in the license class.

    Secondly it is not a firearm.

    Thirdly, A firearm or pistol can be openly carried if secured, while in a car, fishing, going to and coming from camping.
    A firearm can be openly carried in a car with a ccw permit or not. A firearm is a rifle or shotgun of legal length as well as not a machine gun in basic broad terms.

    • Not exactly.

      You can carry a loaded handgun in a personal conveyance without a permit if the gun is snapped in a holster; in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; in a zippered case; in a box or other container requiring a lid to be opened for access.

      The only way you can carry it in your vehicle without a permit openly is if it is snapped in a holster while in plain view.

      If you have a carry permit, none of the above applies.

      • Wrong. What you say applies only to handguns. Case law says taht wrapped in plastic, stuffed in the hole in the dashboard where the radio used to be, is perfectly legal for a hand gun.

        I can have 20 rifles/shotguns laying all over the place in my car, perfectly legal. FL 790.25 ss 4. Read it.

        No machine guns tho… Which is weird, becasue it’s legal to own NFA items here, but according to law, it better not ever leave the gun safe becasue it’s illegal to conceal carry a machine gun even if you have a permit, so putting it in a gun case and driving to the gun range is doing what? I don’t think anyone has ever been arrested for it, becasue it’s absurdly stupid even by law enforcement standards, but the letter of the law says so…

  29. Remember that signing on to a condition of employment immunizes your employer for any charge of a civil rights violation.

    And no, do not consent to a search. Instead, yawn and say “I’ve got some time. Go get your warrant.” and leisurely light up a smoke, just to piss him off.

    • You would be amazed hat during the 18 years I was a circuit judge, how many people allowed their cars to be searched knowing they had contraband in it. NO, is a pretty simple word, Under a fairly new SCOTUS case, the police can’t even stall you while they go get a drug dog, when the traffic stop should be over it is over. For all you CCW holders, I tell my students that if the law doesn’t require it don’t volunteer that you have a firearm. Saying yes may keep you there a long time, and frankly, it is none of his business. It is usually not a crime to lie verbally to state law enforcement. In Katrine, Louisiana police would then search your car and steal your firearm leaving you defenseless.

  30. another good idea during a stop is, if you get out of your car for any reason, make sure the windows are rolled up and it’s locked.

  31. First of all, who leaves a gun loose in their car and under a book bag? That tells me the owner is a bit too casual about his responsibility in owning the gun in the first place. Regardless of your gun rights, there are codes that require your firearm be handled or stored in a certain manner while driving a car. I have no sympathy for gun owners who disregard their local regulations when transporting a firearm. I never have an issue, because I follow the rules. Tossing a firearm into the backset and tossing other materials on top of the weapon, is irresponsible and unsafe. How you comport yourself and present your secured weapon to police tells the officer you take your responsibility seriously. When you are casual and haphazard like this guy, anticipate a problem.

    • First of all, who leaves a gun loose in their car and under a book bag?

      It’s not all that uncommon, IMHO. Generally, I wouldn’t do it but have seen it quite a bit in rural Ohio. That said, I can remember one or two times that I have done something similar.

      Regardless of your gun rights, there are codes that require your firearm be handled or stored in a certain manner while driving a car.

      Oh, really. There might be codes in some areas but they would be in spite of the right to keep and bear arms and not regardless of it.

      Tossing a firearm into the backset and tossing other materials on top of the weapon, is irresponsible and unsafe.

      Not always and not necessarily. It’s not that far off from a firearm rattling around in a glove box. Sure, in an accident, that might become a flying hunk of metal but so would a good sized wrench, hammer, or any other slightly heavy to heavy object stored loosely in the vehicle. Most modern firearms aren’t going to simply discharge on their own.

      How you comport yourself and present your secured weapon to police tells the officer you take your responsibility seriously.

      Not everyone is the slightest bit interested in impressing a cop. Hell, I know cops that don’t care about what another cop thinks. I probably know more about firearms than most of the officers with which I am acquainted. Why would anyone truly care if an officer thinks “you take your responsibility seriously”? I know that I don’t.

      When you are casual and haphazard like this guy, anticipate a problem.

      This isn’t an issue subject to officer discretion. At least, it isn’t in my area, AFAIK. If there is a law requiring X,Y, and/or Z then the officer may or may not enforce that law. Otherwise, there shouldn’t be any problem to anticipate.

    • I often take my IWB or Pocket Carry rig out when I’m going to drive. I hate sitting on it becaaue it damn well hurts, and back pocket or buttcrack carry are my only non-printing options. I also don’t like sweating all over them. My TCP loves to pop the mag when I sit on it. I’d much prefer to Open Carry; I could carry a real gun and not have to fiddle with it getting in and out of the car. I OC my 1911 in GA all the time. Floriduh thinks the sky will fall the second I cross the state line…

  32. What’s in my car and in my house are personal and none of their business.No warrant means they are sol.

  33. I carry and have a conceal permit (even thou I don’t need one in the state I live in) I have my fire arm on my hip and sometimes in the center console in plain view, state laws here don’t have anything against with fire arms in the open. So I never have to worry about them asking to search my car because of a fire arm.

    However years ago I bought a car from someone and I only had it a week I got pulled over and the sheriff asked to search my car, I figured since I was squeaky clean so why not! Well the previous owner had a metal pipe in the truck that was a breaker bar, that had the words Ni**er be good on it… since the officer was black he didn’t like that one bit! I told him that I just bought the car and didn’t clean out the car because I didn’t see a need too, but after 90 minutes of sitting in the back of a cruiser and having my car ransacked for an hour and drug dog brought out to walk all over my seats. I was let go because that was the only thing they he found. From that day forward I never consent to searches. Also I made sure when I bought a used car I had it cleaned professional inside and out.

    Don’t consent to any search no matter what!!!

  34. Dean got the picture of the WRONG Chris Johnson. It is the RB from the Jets, not the DB that’s been out of football since 2013.

  35. Over here in Elmira if they decide they want to search they are likely to drag you out of your vehicle, pound the crap out of you, search your vehicle, charge you with three counts of resisting among other things then put you through court every other week until you lose your job and house upon which you plead guilty (lie) to some reduced charge that entails some jail and a bunch of fines and a criminal record of some sort forever.
    You mean to tell me that’s not standard procedure?

  36. Florida case law says a gun in the floorboard is concealed as a matter of law. Eric friday. General counsel Florida Carry

  37. If he has a concealed weapon permit in Florida, he can have the gun visible on the seat next to him if it is a handgun. Case dismissed.

  38. Don’t consent to any search! It’s YOUR car, and if they want to search, make them get a search warrant.

  39. I am a retired circuit judge and have taught a self defense course for about 6 years.

    You would me amazed how may college educated middle class people ask me “Can you really tell the police they can’t search your car?” I usually have to say something like “Why do you think they ask you the question?’

    Add to the advice “don’t let anyone take a blood sample, DNA sample hair sample or anything like that without a signed court order.”

  40. It always pays to be polite. Chances are there is SOMETHING they can write you a ticket for if they want to ruin your day.

    I’ve never been asked but my response would be,
    “sorry, I don’t consent to any searches.”
    “got something to hide?”
    No, I just never consent to searches.

    Its truthful, not confrontational, and not kissing ass either.

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