https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qteF3l5PG3g#t=20
The last time the Middle East was peaceful was . . . never. In the now-infamous video above, an Israeli soldier draws on a Palestinian. Quite apart from the resulting geo-political wrangling, there’s an important self-defense lesson to be learned from this armed confrontation . . .
As the video begins, a Palestinian gets all up in an Israeli soldier’s face. After poking the soldier, the Palestinian holds his hands behind his back (which could indicate a hidden weapon). The soldier pushes him away. The Israeli then walks towards the man he pushed, trying to intimidate him.
I’m not exactly what sure what happens next. Did the Palestinian brush-up against the soldier’s gun? Something startled the soldier. Despite his quick action – racking his gun and turning towards a new, fast-moving threat – the soldier was instantly caught in a strategically untenable position. He had a threat on either side.
The soldier turns to the new threat, moves towards him and pushes Palestinian No. 2 away with his strong hand. The hand with the trigger finger. As both Palestinians retreat – displaying clear signs of subservience – the soldier moves forward and kicks the newcomer. And then walks deeper into the crowd to intimidate bystanders. There’s an edit. The soldier has corralled the original Palestinian and received reinforcement.
I’m not an IDF soldier (nor a Palestinian) and I don’t play one on the Internet. But it’s clear that the Israeli soldier’s efforts to exert dominance over the Palestinians were ill-timed and ill-advised. Regardless of the history of the two men or their people, he made some serious tactical errors.
Problem No. 1 – Going mano-a-mano with a mano creates tunnel vision. By concentrating on one “bad guy” the soldier lost sight of both his immediate environment (the possibility of a threat coming from outside his line of sight) and the bigger picture (the videotaping bystanders). By moving towards the first Palestinian as he retreated the soldier was escalating the conflict.
Problem No. 2 – By physically assaulting the second Palestinian, and moving towards the pair, the soldier was, again, escalating the conflict. What the soldier needed was space. If the men had attacked him the soldier would have been hard-pressed to defend himself. It wouldn’t have been impossible, but it would have been more difficult without more distance between himself and the Palestinians.
Distance is your friend. The more distance between you and a threat or threats the more time you have to decide what to do. And the more time you have to do it. Make no mistake: in a violent confrontation – whether of your own making or not – time is your most precious resource. Keep your distance. Give yourself time.
That said, there are times when you want to keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Remember: the closer the threat, the less chance you have of missing them when you strike/shoot. In a home invasion scenario, where you may have limited options for concealment and cover (like the Israeli soldier in this video), you may want to move towards the threat to land the telling blow before you are attacked.
Space is the final frontier. When you enter someone’s space and get within bad breath distance, you have put yourself on a final approach to a serious confrontation. Maybe the threat will back down. Maybe they won’t. But if they don’t – oops! – you don’t have the full temporal resources you need to defend or attack effectively.
Anyway, do you really need to take that chance? Isn’t there some other way to resolve the conflict? If there is, take it. If there isn’t, either move away or move in for the kill. It’s as simple – and complicated – as that.
The lesson would be:
Don’t mess with a man carrying an IWI TAVOR who appears ready to use it to shoot you.
I’m a little surprised he was not carrying it in Condition 1. Maybe that’s standard protocol for the IDF?
This is either a holdover from when the Israelis were using any guns they could rustle up – including those with questionable safety devices. Or the other possibility is that a gun that needs to be racked gives you more time to disarm someone that grabs your pistol – something Krav Maga practitioners excel at.
Anyone able to confirm or deny?
I’m told the Israelis have been taught to keep the chamber empty and rack it as they draw, with handguns that is, precisely because of what you said–at first, they were using so many different weapons from so many sources that that was the only way to standardize a safe way to carry them all. It became the standard Israeli carry method, and the draw-and-rack became known as the “Mossad draw”.
That’s actually the way I train to do it. Draw and rack in one swift fluid motion. Done it in one real high stress scenario and worked just as it should’ve.
William Fairbairn first gave the rack-and-draw method popular exposure in his book “Shoot to live with the one-handed gun.” One-handed until you get your other hand on it. The method was created and taught in the mid-1930’s. The book was published in 1942.
He replaced the Shanghai Municipal Police Force revolvers with 1911’s in .45ACP and taught the rack-and-draw. He also agreed with John Browning, that the grip safety was enough safety, and had all the thumb safeties removed.
WF also created a system of street fighting called Defendu taught to WWII commandos, and studied by Polish members of Betar who later were leaders in Irgun.
He’s the same Fairbairn of Fairbairn-Sykes fighting knife fame.
I don’t know the reason, but an ex-IDF guy I know confirms that that’s the way they do it. They’re crazy-fast, though. He shoots IDPA club matches that way – without one in the chamber – and he’s still classified sharpshooter in SSP.
it’s incredibly easy to do when you’re familiar with your weapon, and frankly I don’t understand why many American shooters are so heavily against it.
Jeff,
I can’t understand why so many americans are so dead set against having a safety on a pistol while carrying one in the pipe. In the scenario in the vid if the guy was carrying a loaded glock one of the sheetrock heads could have grabbed it and shot him.
I figured out that was the only really safe way to carry my Zastava mod. 70–empty chamber, I mean. It had a frame-mounted safety, but the lever moved too easily so I didn’t trust it. Also didn’t have a half-cock. I decided the Zastava was kind of superfluous after a while, tho, and sold it. Kind of wish I still had it.
Works great….right up until ol’ Murphy shows up and you are faced with having to deal with a problem chambering a round. It happens…whether it is a faulty magazine or something else. If you are in the midst of a life or death situation, I am willing to bet that you will be wishing like hell that you had made a condition 1 weapon BEFOREHAND….instead of having to take critical seconds to get your weapon back in the game.
I don’t believe they carry condition 1 for safety, but damn that was some FAST chambering!
The lesson would be:….
No the lesson here is that an Israeli grunt soldier has more self control than the average US cop.
I didn’t see any dogs in the vicinity, so it was probably safe.
This is their SOP. We want to eliminate possible AD’s. So this is the best way.
When in actual operation we then go to one in the chamber safety on, and if of course actively moving on a target or operation then safety off ready to go.
This, of all the people bickering about what condition is “best” few ever consider that there are different scenarios with different needs. Most of the opining on these boards and comment sections are concerned with US CCW situations and fail to adjust their statements for other realities. Imo cocked locked and no safety is ideal for modern CC in the states, for civilians. Civilian open carry is another matter, police open carry another still troops in a peace keeping role vs combat vs any specific operation will need specific procedures obviously.
I think you mean ND, not AD. Better training may work, rather than carrying a useless, unloaded weapon.
The soldier would have been better off with drawing to a hard point after the two Palestinians backed off, and maintaining his situational awareness. One thing to remember us that being an IDF soldier is very different than being in the military in the United States.
Even though there is some cross training, yes day to day operations is much different.
Did that soldier chamber a round…?
As far as I’m concerned, if I make cheek weld with the stock, the safety is coming off, and once I lose my cheek weld the safety goes back on. It should be automatic.
Cheek weld (on). Safety (Off).
Cheek weld (off). Safety (On).
Cheek weld (on). Safety (Off).
Cheek weld (off). Safety (On).
That’s a very basic drill that people can and should do. Put an unloaded rifle up to your cheek, and then turn the safety off, then take it off your cheek, and turn the safety back on. Do that a few hundred times until it’s automatic.
A round should already be chambered, and ready to go before that point is ever reached as far as I’m concerned.
Hmm, he was surrounded and outnumbered. The “youth” were acting aggressively and menacing.
Overpowering dominance is needed at times. Shanked by a couple street punks??, nah I’ll draw.
Also, I don’t know what his job was/is. What *I* should do as a private citizen in the US if confronted with this level of hostility might be far different from what his JOB is, just as it might be different from a US LEO. I’m not second guessing his actions, huge numbers of people within a hundred miles of this man wish to not only kill him, but to kill his parents, wife and children as well, everyone he loves in the world. I wish him good luck.
I don’t think he was really out of line there.
I agree though that distance is definitely you’re friend – which he tried to create by pushing forward and backing up, etc.
The Israeli army requires their soldiers to carry with a mag attached and an empty chamber. He had to operate the charging handle to chamber the round. If you look closely, you will not see a round leave the chamber when he charges the weapon.
Personally, i think carrying in that condition is complete foolishness. It could have cost this soldier his life.
You are correct. That is how we carried 99% of the time.
The only time we ever carry with one chambered is during actual war time operations, like Operation Cast Lead etc.
In conflicts there are more important things that a soldiers life. When YOU are in command and you must consider the fallout from an expected number of NDs vs the fallout from an expected number of your own casualties you may not make the decision you think you would.
I agree with the author’s observations.
Distance is time, and time is measured in hundredths of a second in a fight.
The difference between life and death could be mere inches.
“full temporal resources”
Gosh, I love that phrasing!
I believe I will teach it to my children.
The concept behind it, too.
I think the lesson here is that Palestinians should have the same rights to own weapons as Jews in Israel. Then maybe they would have a fighting chance to end the occupation.
Uh, no. “Palestinians” are a self-identified people who have never had their own land or country. “Palestine” was a regional reference, not an identifier for a country. So if the “Palestinians” don’t have their own land, how can Israel be “occupying” it? It belongs to Israel.
Why anybody believes that Israel is some vicious imperialist country, when it is a spot on a map, surrounded by countries whose leaders and people have sworn to annihilate them the first chance they get, is beyond me.
Also, from what I understand, the reason that there is no Palestinian state is that the Palestinians and surrounding national leaders refuse any deal that involves the continued existence of Israel. In short: Palestinians don’t want their own land as much as they want the Jews to all die.
Marcus, exactly.
And how does it “belong” to a country that didn’t exist 70 years ago. Israel is an apartheid, racist, occupying terrorist force that treats the Palestinians like third class people. Since 1967, the Israeli government has actively encouraged and facilitated the influx of over 450,000 Jewish settlers into the West Bank and Gaza Strip in clear violation of international law. They continue to encroach and steal the little land they have left including their homes, they deny them access to clean water and supplies. You would hate them too if you were a Palestinian.
All done with the help of American tax money, approximately $3 Billion a year. Why do we send them 3 Billion a year? They’re no ally. This is the same country that attacked the USS Liberty which was in international waters and killed 34 Americans.
Zionist organizations dominate American Politics. Its funny how many United States politicians have Israeli dual citizenship. Most of them are gun grabbers too. Feinstein, Schumer, Kissinger, etc. Who is their allegiance to? Not the US.
The truth is the Palestinians are the apartheid group. In Israel, in high areas of academia, business and in government, there are non-Jews. The Palestinians do not permit and do not want any other ethnicity or religion in the regions under their control.
Which side logs grenades and rockets across the wall to kill innocent women and children on the other side?
Your racist and bigoted post really should embarrass you.
No, I am not a Zionist, a Jew, my Mother was not a Jew, my father is not a Jew, and neither am I a radical Islamist. I am an American by birth, Southern by choice.
Just so you know, I can provide you with sources and facts to back up my entire post. Ask and you shall receive.
You completely ignore the FACT that Israel ATTACKED a US naval vessel (USS Liberty) clearly flying American flag and killed 34 servicemen with the intent to blame it on Egypt. You also ignore that Israeli organizations heavily influence our foreign policy. Or how about the fact that Israel has an estimated 200 Nuclear weapons but is not a signatory to the nuclear proliferation treaty. Rogue state.
With that said, your response to me is this:
1st Paragraph – Blatantly false as Palestine can’t be the apartheid regime when they are LITERALLY surrounded on all sides by an armed occupier in whats basically an open air prison.
2nd Paragraph – Another zionist mainstream media lie. You do realize that the palestinians are unarmed right? They don’t even have guns but somehow they have rockets and grenades?
3rd Paragraph – Personal insult towards me as you lack facts and therefore must attack me by calling me racist. Very liberal tactic if I must say so, you should be ashamed as I’m not.
4th Paragraph – You sir are in denial as you most certainly fit the bill for a zionist or at the very least a completely uninformed person whose only knowledge of the situation in Palestine is what you hear on the news. I would be willing to bet that when it comes to gun issues, you think the Jew owned media is full of it but they wouldn’t be misinforming you about Israel now would they.
You my friend have clearly never, ever independently researched this issue on your own time. One last thing, I find it INCREDIBLE that people like yourself vehemently defend the Israeli State while most Jews refer to non jews as goy or goyim (a condescending term to describe stupid non jews who are lesser people than them).
Like yourself, I am neither a jew or a radical muslim and neither are my family. I am an American by birth as well. As an American, I believe in speaking out against injustice, whether it be against an assault on our god given gun rights or war crimes against humanity which Israel is guilty of. Please don’t take my word. Look into it yourself, but please don’t regurgitate media BS because then you’re no better than the anti gun liberals who spew fake stats and numbers.
Go away troll.
Oh, now, Cache, a lot of that is just silly. Israel became a country due to the wishes of the victors in a world war, not by some kind of magic. Palestine had never existed at the time, and still does not. And does not wish to enough to give up their fanatical devotion to the murder of all jews, not just Israelis. And despite their “prison”, poor babies, they are free to leave whenever they want and go live with their loving brothers in other muslim countries, which are within walking distance. You’re wearing blinders.
Yeah, they’re so badly treated that they (Arabs, whether “Palestinian” or not) have full citizenship and voting rights in Israel.
The land that became Israel was a wasteland before the Jewish people developed it. Those fighting against them might care about the land, but their primary motivation is to KILL THE JEWS.
The Jews are the only people in the history of the world to be driven from their land (~2000 years ago), constantly persecuted and reviled (where most “new” ethnic people assimilate into a culture) and somehow they’ve retained their cultural identity and their language. As was predicted by the Bible.
So, if we have to choose between God’s word, and the skewed perspective of somebody who objects to “the Zionists,” well then, the choice is quite easy.
Well, if self-defense and gun ownership is an inherent right, then they _should_ have them. As should Israeli citizens generally, and other citizens of the world.
I agree with that.
Palestine was part of the British Empire. The “Palestinians” had no legitimate rule during the time prior to the Jews being given that parcel of land by Britain.
I’m not saying the Israelis are saints, but the so called Palestinians are the ones launching strikes from southern Lebanon and other territories. Israelis have legitimacy because there’s a clear line of succession of the land from Britain. The land is an excuse for Palestinians. It’s about Palestinians not being able to live and let live with people of different faith.
With all due respect Prairie, F the British empire. It wasn’t their land to “give away”. Look, whatever your views are about the region, you can’t deny the facts and the facts are Israel dictates our foreign policy. It is of no worth to the US, it has no resources, no significant manpower, yet we send them billions annually in aid when we’re broke as a joke and on top of that, no one can dare speak out or question their motives without being attacked and labeled an anti-semite by the media and zionist organizations. Check the map of Israel in 67 and then check how much land they have taken since then and say again they’re not an occupier.
When Jordan governed Trans-Jordan, Jordan never offered any lands to the Palestinian people for a homeland. The U.S. gives a huge amount of money to foreign aid each year, but it is only a tiny fraction of the amount of money we give out for food stamps, free Obamaphones, and every thing else bureaucrats can offer free of charge to the recipient and a huge expense to us taxpayers.
The countries which previously claimed that additional land lost it due to their participation in an offensive war designed to destroy Israel and kill every Israeli down to infants, and you know it. When you start a war you should realize, if you have any sense at all, that there will be a price for your perfidy and hatred if you lose. If I ran Israel those lands would NEVER be returned, yet Israel has offered them in return for recognition of their right to simply EXIST, and been refused. COMMENT MODERATED. NO FLAMING.
Palestinians hate the Jews, you hate the Jews. Easy to see why you defend them.
I don’t care about either side, but Palastine was never part of the British empire. It was part of the Ottoman empire and became a British protectorate after WWI.
Well, the other guys have pretty well said it, but I always like to ask, anyway–What was the capital city of this so-called Arab state of “Palestine” that the Israelis have “occupied”? What was the monetary unit? what were some of the main population centers (towns, villages, that sort of thing)? what form of government did they have–monarchy? theocracy? democracy? Find out that info, then you can start talking about how the Israelis “occupied’ a sovereign state.
Richard, prior to Israel’s occupation, those lands belonged to Egypt, Syria,and Jordan. They were occupied because those rogue states kept attacking Israel. Israel did not attack, Israel was attacked, and had to defend their lands and people repeatedly beginning immediately after independence.
“Immediately” as in the same damn DAY!
1. Israelis train with an empty chamber. It’s their SOP. Why? I don’t know.
2. Sometimes, you want your opponents in your striking distance. That way, they will feel your attack long before they see it. And, yes, I speak from experience. 😉
This was in Israeli Jerusalem and during normal check point duty that is the SOP. The only time it changes is if we are in active operations.
Ummm…the Palestinians consider the Jewish people to be sub human & worthy of death. I’m surprised MORE Palestinians aren’t killed daily. The soldier displayed great restraint to not kill mr. muslim. What kind of deranged lunatic would mess with a guy who has an automatic weapon???
The kind of lunatic that was born under oppression, forced to live under oppression and the kind that knows that he will die under oppression because the world turns a blind eye to their injustice.
Horse manure. It is the kind of people who know what the soldier’s orders are, and knows he can “count coups” and get away with it. And, BTW, if you didn’t notice, your terminology is that of a purebred fanatic, which raises suspicions of a pathological liar into the mix. You might want to tone it down, but I doubt it.
i find all this pro-Israel slant to be very strange.
Aren’t the Palestinians corralled up into ghettos? i find it ironic.
If that is the case, why don’t they move to a neighboring muslim country? Just TRY to answer that.
Mexicans are Christians, should they all just be allowed to move to their neighboring Christian nation to the North if they feel like it?
Jason says:
May 6, 2014 at 10:01
Mexicans are Christians, should they all just be allowed to move to their neighboring Christian nation to the North if they feel like it?
Actually, the dominant western religion in Mexico is Catholicism, not Christianity. The Catholic church advocates praying to saints (which is a form of idol worship), and effectively tells their followers that they need an intermediary (a priest) for confession, neither of which is biblical, and both actually teach people NOT to have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ.
In any case, there are formal avenues for applying for residency and/or citizenship for many countries in any region, none of which include advocating for the annihilation of that country’s population, nor launching grenade, bomb, or rocket attacks against them.
“Palestinians” are “corralled” on what might be some of the best beach-front resort property on Earth. But they don’t want to develop it as such, they would rather spend their time building rockets to drop on schools and such.
Prior to Arafish assuming rock temperature they had a great method of recruiting homicide bombers, boys were told they had a choice, become Yassers Pashtun boy, or blow themselves to hell.
Seriously though, they tell these dead enders that if they die in jihad, they will get 72 virgins in paradise instead of never getting any wife on earth. They do it for sex. Imaginary sex, but still sex. In the U.S.A. the dead enders still get women, and when the gal is pregnant, they move on to the next and leave her to be a dependent of the state.
“the Palestinian holds his hands behind his back (not the body language of someone intent on launching a strike).”
It’s more threatening than you would think. It’s not uncommon for Palestinians to hide a knife behind their back in order to close with and stab IDF soldiers, there are several Krav Maga drills designed specifically to deal with this threat. This brings up an important defensive point, you always want to see your attackers hands, because that is where the threat is most likely to come from. You especially want to see their fingers in order to determine whether or not their holding something (such as a knife or gun) hidden from your view. A person hiding their hands may be reaching for a weapon.
The rest of the article is pretty spot on though, when unsure of the threat distance yourself from possible aggressors, create space and watch for secondary threats.
Hands kill. I don’t give a crap what their face is doing. I do care about their hands. If they are not in full view, consider them to be holding a weapon. Frankly I think the soldier should have been more aggressive about defending his personal space. You never let anybody get within arms reach of you.
Kyle and Robert,
Try training in Krav Maga like the IDF does. You will find that closiing the space is the first thing to do.
Once you get some training, you may understand. Space is not your friend in Krav Maga.
Good point. Text amended.
Sometimes when you give people space they’ll use it against you. Unless you’ve got the justification to shoot, that gun can be a liability.
They may be the ‘hint’ of the question, why no round in the chamber.
First, the Israeli carry guns just about everywhere. There is no doubt that no round in the chamber could be safer in some situations. For instance carrying a slung rifle and a child that has arms and fingers splaying about.
Second, an unintentional shooting of a person might lead to riots and more deaths not to mention the political costs and Israel is well aware how small happenings can effect public opinion.
Lastly, and as has been said already, if you train that way this method is really not much slower than condition 1.
From my one time viewing it appears the soldier was alarmed by the second individual starting to move behind him.
And if the individual that advanced on the soldier was serious about violence and possibly trying to promote riotous action from the crowd, possibly with ‘friends’ around the corner becoming aggressive immediately would tell the soldier how serious a situation he might be in.
Isn’t Israel itself the modern world’s most prolonged home invasion scenario?
Yes, 2500 years on, and they only have a small portion back from the invading persian armies, and a bunch of pedophile worshipers have built a mosque on the most holy site.
As long as they are willing to let their children die for some land someone they never knew may have lived in thousands of years ago they can claim no high ground when those children get killed.
Don’t worry, the same is true of the other side. Though whomever lived there last has dibs as far as I’m concerned.
There were plenty of Jews In Israel when it was a British protectorate. Back then the Jews had muslims lived together mostly in peace under the English thumb. The original plan was to Create three states, one Jewish, Israel, one muslim, and a special area encompassing Jerusalem. The Arabs declined the offer, and instead launched all out war on the Jewish state.
Google (or Bing) is your friend, A quick check and you wold learn that muslims in Israel have more rights then Jews living in any Arab or muslim country. Israel has absorbed the Jewish population seeking refuge from those countries. The muslim states have refuse to accept any Palistidiots.
The Palistidiots have refused to sign any formal agreement, including one in which the Israeli’s agreed to their EVERY demand.
In 1949 the areas the Palistidiots now have was controlled by Jordan, and Egypt. Israel took control of those lands after repeated assaults by their muslim neighbors.
All the muslims need to do to achieve peace is give up their demand that Israel be eliminated. since they would rather die, I am happy to allow them to die.
One thing is for sure, that second dude aggressively running around behind him like that was just asking to get popped.
No kidding. I saw some serious training there, I would have been hard pressed to keep it semiauto.
I totally would have (something ultra cool, macho and physically impossible here) if I was that guy.
And then I would have posed dramatically for the camera. Only my good side, though! 😉
My understanding the standard protocol for most Israeli weapons is carried with empty chamber. Two reasons for that safety and safety. In the US that same confrontation would have been the result of a discharge. I had a course in Israeli armed technique with Glock and it was always no matter the situation with empty chamber but it teaches you to rack it really fast.
It’s a stupid technique for modern small arms, and your claim that having the chamber loaded would have resulted in a discharge is ridiculous since the chamber became loaded and (gasp) the gun didn’t go off.
Supposed to have quotes, as in, “go off”. See?
Thank you. I can’t believe so many here are going for this “carrying without a round in the chamber is brilliant, effective, and safe” nonsense.
Fail on the article’s title. This should have read “DGU of the Day: Don’t Tavor Me, Bro!” edition.
Fail as well on the analysis of the video. This isn’t a typical self-defense situation. Most normal rules are common, but special rules apply in this kind of situation. The terrorist had already accosted and assaulted the good guy with the gun at the outset. He’s lucky he wasn’t shot right then and there. Try that with your local flatfoot and see how quickly you’re put on the ground and in cuffs, while enjoying your hair standing on end in the process. Same goes for the terrorist holding his hands behind his back. On the contrary, that’s threatening as Hell.
I’m ok with the kick, too. These people only retreated after the firearm was charged, meaning that’s all they respect. The defender needed to establish his dominance over the attacker, his partner and the vicious mob, ideally without relying on the firearm. The kick and courageous advance toward them, while grossly outnumbered, accomplished that.
Another DGU without having to fire a shot. Well done, young man, and God bless you.
That retreat also means they knew the weapon was NOT charged before.
Question:
Did this happen in Israel or in one of the many illegally stolen lands that Israel has taken from the Palestinians?
The answer to that determines whether the soldier’s actions were legitimate.
Hey, maybe you can answer the questions I asked above: capital city of this illegally occupied Palestinian state? Monetary unit? National language? Form of government? Notable national figures (other than Jordanian criminals/revolutionaries kicked out by the Jordanian authorities I mean)? Never have gotten the answers.
You mean the land the “Palestinians” illegally stole from the Israelis?
Prior to Israel’s occupation, there were no palistidiots. the people who lived there were either Egyptian, Syrian or Transjordanians. Prior to Israels independence, it was all British territory.
Nice try, major fail. Remember, there is no god named allah, and mohammed was a pedophile.
It’s funny how the ultra-zionists like you sound suspiciously like you’d fit right in with those who have conducted genocides.
The Arabs call us dhimmis. The Jews call us goyim, or worse -shegetz. Some choice, eh?
Not going to comment on that last sentence, but otherwise you are correct. The so-called “Palestinians” are for the most part the descendants of dissidents/rebels/criminals kicked out of the established Muslim states in the region. They never had their own “nation”.
This was at an Israeli check point. The two yoots and the solider where on the Israeli side.
Hmmm……..well, if you don’t want your land “stolen”, then how about you don’t launch an unprovoked war from said lands. Better yet, don’t KEEP launching unprovoked wars and losing more land. Then you won’t have your land taken from you. Mkay?
Looked like a fast, strong soldier showing weapon competence and situational awareness to me. He was “intimidating” the Palestinian because the youth was getting up in his face. Sometimes a little contact is just what the doctor ordered.
Yes but situational awareness means he should have been working in pairs with someone else to watch his surroundings.
Ideally, yes, but he lives in a very unideal world.
Ignorance on this thread to too much to combat.
Suffice to say I hope those palestians get weapons to act against their aggressors.
Israeli occupies their lands illegally.
It is constantly stealing their land by expanding their settlements..
It is nothing more than a modern day apartheid state.
You could just as easily say that about the Palestinians. The whole middle east is just one big hatfield and mcoy feud that is older than Rome. And as far as an “apartheid”…. well ok, John Kerry. That’s about as realistic a statement as “If you like your plan you can keep your plan”.
No it isn’t really Hatfield and McCoy at all, it is european invasion and murder/displacement of a indigenous populace though.
It would help be resolved if the UN actually got involved and forced Israel to stop occupying Palestinian land, stop stopping their trade, and respect their sovereignty.
They have no land nor sovereignty, never did.
I’ve tried with two other guys, no luck. Maybe you can tell me: Capital of this sovereign Palestinian state the Israelis occupied? monetary unit? form of government? basis of the national economy? Cultural figures? Since you are wanting to correct everyone else’s ignorance, maybe you can enlighten me with some of these facts.
West Bank and Gaza strip are the land masses that today make up the state of palestine.
As of now the capital is Jersusalem and the administrative capital is Ramallah.
These are easy facts to look up.
They also have nothing to do with Israel’s actions.
Since when are Jews “european”? Silliest thing I’ve ever heard. Jews are from….wait for it…Israel! Where is Israel? In the middle-east, perhaps?
Ignorance on this thread to too much to combat.
You seem to not understand how Israeli, not jewish, citizenship is claimed. The nation was formed by a large settlement of european jews immigrating to the land. Even now every year thousands of jews from europe come to the nation to settle.
Its sad when you can’t bring anything to the conversation.
David the maniac, would you say the same about blacks from the U.S.A. returning to Africa? Jews are not Europeans. They are a separate ethnic group, and many centuries ago, when their land was invaded, they were taken away as slaves.
The Jewish people in Europe were not treated well. Hitler was not the only anti Semite. He was joined in his quest by willing volunteers in most of the occupied nations, and aided in his actions by inaction on the part of the British and American forces who knew full well what was going on. The Jews in Germany were not rioting in the streets. They were not holding carbuques every night. Instead, they were amassing wealth. They were not stealing it, they were being shrewd businessmen and gaining it in legal ways. Because they did not trust the European bankers, they did not lose wealth enmass when the stock market crash was engineered. I’d bet they didn’t lose much when obamunism hit the world either.
The Israelis have naturalized 1.5 million “Palestinians” who vote, hold public office and serve in the IDF. The total population of Israel is less than 8 million. Where’s the apartheid?
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/204744-kerry-is-wrong-israel-is-already-an-apartheid-state
“Palestinian refugees, ethnically cleansed from their homes by Israel before, during and after the state’s establishment on 78 percent of historic Palestine, are denied their internationally guaranteed right to return; however, a Jewish person anywhere in the world can immigrate to Israel, automatically claim citizenship, and even reside on property belonging to Palestinians dispossessed of their land.
Those Palestinians not expelled from their properties, who are today citizens of Israel, face pervasive societal discrimination, and, according to Adalah: The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel, “there are more than 50 Israeli laws that discriminate against Palestinian citizens of Israel in all areas of life, including their rights to political participation, access to land, education, state budget resources, and criminal procedures.”
Immediately after occupying the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip—the remaining 22 percent of historic Palestine—in 1967, Israel promulgated Military Order 101, stripping Palestinians of all political rights and embarking on an illegal colonization of their land. More than forty years later, Human Rights Watch concluded, in a report entitled “Separate and Unequal: Israel’s Discriminatory Treatment of Palestinians in the Occupied Palestinian Territories,” that Israel’s military occupation has resulted in policies which “harshly discriminate against Palestinian residents, depriving them of basic necessities while providing lavish amenities for Jewish settlement.”
This type of two-tiered system of law, based on factors such as race, ethnicity and nationality, was what the international community sought to end when it defined apartheid as a crime against humanity. Israel’s discrimination against Palestinians is so blatant that even the State Department grudgingly acknowledges in its latest human rights report that Palestinian citizens of Israel face “institutional and societal discrimination,” in addition to an extensive catalogue of human rights abuses suffered by Palestinians under Israeli military occupation.
Beyond the proximate causes for the breakdown of this latest round of the interminable “peace process”—Israel’s reneging on its commitment to free a final tranche of Palestinian political prisoners and its ongoing colonization of Palestinian land, which resulted in the Palestinians joining additional international bodies and treaties and signing a unity agreement between the divided political parties of Fatah and Hamas—the reason for its essential failure is clear.”
Yeah Israel is a apartheid state
Show me that Jews are treated better in any of the surrounding states. More likely to be killed on sight.
I don’t have to show you how Jews are treated anywhere, to talk about Israel’s deplorable actions. Stop trying to engage a tu quoque fallacy.
What he said!!
Fact is, the so-called “Palestinians” were offered virtually everything they claimed they wanted, but Arafat walked away. Nothing short of Israel’s annihilation will satisfy them. Even then, they won’t be satisfied, because the despots of the Middle East will concoct some new scapegoat to redirect their enslaved populaces’ passions away from their own imprisoners. Israel has proven with Jordan and Egypt that they can make lasting peace with former enemies.
Despite some internal politics driving some anti-Israel sentiment in Turkey and an unfortunate deterioration in what had been a strong cooperative arrangement, those two countries are ok with each other. Even Syria, with whom Israel has shared in their own private little Cold War, is at peace with Israel. Hell, Israel has opened up refugee camps for Syrian refugees fleeing the civil war. You don’t see any of the wealthy Gulf despots doing that. They all use regular people as pawns in their games. Israel is the only beacon of civilization and morality in that vast hellscape ranging from Algeria to Iran. What, exactly, are the so-called “Palestinians” known for? Murder. Of Israelis and each other.
They are no more so called Palestianians, then the Israelis are “so called” Isralis who are really Ukrainians, Polish, and eastern europeans.
Arafat didn’t walk away from anything but a terrible deal.
http://electronicintifada.net/content/misrepresentation-baraks-offer-camp-david-generous-and-unprecedented/3991
“sraeli academic Tanya Reinhart wrote a July 2001 article in Yediot Aharonot, addressing the “massive propaganda about the far reaching concessions which Barak supposedly offered and which the Palestinians rejected.” Reinhart asserted:
“The only clear element of Barak’s plan in Camp David was the immediate annexation by Israel of about 10 percent of the West Bank land. These include the settlement blocks which are close to the center of Israel and in which there are already over 150,000 Israeli settlers. But the bigger fraud of Barak’s plan, which has not received any attention in the public debate, is the fate of the rest of the 90 percent which were supposedly designated to belong to the “Palestinian state”. The situation in these areas is easily visible today: These lands are cut up by 37 isolated settlements which were purposely built in the midst of the Palestinian population to enable future Israeli control of these areas. As a result, 2 million Palestinians are crowded in enclaves which consist of about 50 percent of the West Bank, and the other 40 percents are blocked by the defense array of some 40,000 settlers. As always, unofficial rumors were spread in the media that Israel intends to evacuate these areas in some future. But all relevant government offices clarified repeatedly that no plan is being prepared for the evacuation of even a single settlement. First, the Palestinians need to prove that our imposed arrangements work, and then we will of course discuss and consider.”
Source: “Out now! A simple and human step,” by Tanya Reinhart, Yediot Aharonot, 8 July 2001. Originally in Hebrew.”
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the lack of substance in your comment is clear in you claiming annihilation of Israel is the only goal, When a clearly stated goal is absolute recognition of Palestinian sovereignty and a end of the settlement expansion. Yet you say nothing about those very real things that Israel could do.
I already know you are a rabid zionist though, so it would be like talking to a rock.
I’m pretty sure there’s no “good guy” in any situation I’ve yet seen in the middle east. Whoever comes to power commits atrocities from the same handbook. I may not think Israel is on the side of the angels (so to speak), but I certainly don’t want to see radical Islamists take charge and commit ethnic cleansing on millions, either.
Better question: if the 8 million or so Israelis are all in the wrong here, what would you see instead? Turn everything over to Palestinian leadership at gunpoint? Where are the current Israeli citizens supposed to go and/or how do you expect they be treated by their new occupiers? Will you be alright with the next holocaust occurring as a byproduct?
Again another false dilemma to support you simply being a bigot.
1) Palestianians shouldn’t be classified as radical islamist or granting them a state shouldn’t be conflated with the take over of radical islamist. Its absurd on its face.
No Israel and Palestiane have bad apples on both sides, but in no way shape or form is Israel the lesser evil so to speak. The nation is a racist apartheid state. They treat black citizens like dirt, they treat palestinians like dirt. they continue to use military force, primarily provided by the US in military aid, to attack and colonize and eradicate Palestinians. For God’s sake the Israelis were found to be torturing Palestinian children and using them as human shields.
The Israeli state is monsterous and it needs to be checked. It never will though because the US protects it because we have a large segment of people like yourself, who do no reading, no learning, and have no interest of doing so, but spout ignorant platitudes such as “better the Israelis than islamic extremists” and other such nonsense.
If the Palestinians don’t care about their own future by training their next generation in the art of suicide bombing, why should the rest of us care? The Israelis are doing a better job managing the land there anyways, and the Arabs seem to begrudgingly agree.
David_TheMan +1000
“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor”
-Desmond Tutu
Clearly David the Man and Cache are the only real scholars here, imprevious to propaganda and misinformation, and wiser than the rest of us in all things under the sun.
Many on this list have offered rational counter-arguments, yet your posts are the only ones that reek of panicked and desperate hubris.
I don’t think I attacked any poster, neither did cache. Seems you have your feelings hurt by people not accepting the bogus US media narrative.
Figures, Nahal… lol
Givati wouldn’t get into that kind of macho bravado.
More important than distance giving you time, the adversary also knows you will have time to detect his attack and react. It being a no win for him, he doesn’t even try. Let him get close and he will be tempted to think that he might succeed. The ability to prevent an attack is superior to defeating one.
Depends on the big picture. In the kind of situation we see here, the potential attacker may well find another target to attack, since the attack here was avoided. In which case the attack was not avoided, simply moved.
I see nothing wrong with what the soldier did. He escalated after multiple attempts at non-physical interaction. The Palestinian kid kept getting in his face and making physical contact, all while his buddy filmed it. So, this kid decides to go be Mr Tough Guy against armed IDF, and learns the hard way why Arabs still haven’t driven the Israelis into the sea. Play stupid games..
As a side note. Israeli buddy of mine has been teaching me curse words in Hebrew. Ben-zona means “son of a whore”.. lol..
Side note number 2. This video makes me love my Tavor even more.
“I will bless them who bless you and curse them who curse you”. I didn’t see any Israeli Jews cheering 9/11. I saw thousands of Palestinians celebrating. And millions of Muslims. The ultimate goal of Islam is the establishment of the old Ottoman caliphate & the subjugation of the entire world to Allah-the moon god. Think Baal, Ashtaroth, Milcom or Dagon. It’s all coming to a head as we speak. Don’t look for Israel to exercise restraint if they are attacked with an Iranian atomic bomb. Like they have in the thousands of missle attacks on Tel Aviv and much of the tiny land of Israel.
That is God Almighty speaking to His people through Abraham. (Genesis 12:3)
I’m staying out of the politics here. But one thing that caught my eye. Why, in this day and age (I presume this took place in 2014, feel free to correct me if that wasn’t the case) of tiny smart phones would a soldier carry such a long, unwieldy club of a radio? Am I missing something?
Tom
Because it’s a radio, not a cell phone.
One correction. Watch again Robert. He’s a lefty. His left hand never leaves the grip and he pushes with his right hand, his weak hand. As a southpaw myself, it sucks enough that many guns aren’t ambidextrous. It’s funny to me that you saw him push with his right hand and assumed it was his strong hand.
I can’t truly say about the the Israeli military, but the us military is trained to push and shoot. Military training is for war, active battles where immediate threats are just straight out killed. Those in the military have an aggressive mindset and are going to push forward and attack the threat, while those of us that are civilians with a defensive mindset are going to back away, though there are plenty with an aggressive mindset that will chose to push. War vs self defense, it is a completely different world.
That’s true, until it isn’t. Military forces are commonly used for non combat duties and there is concurrent training for those duties. This man was not in “combat” and has no doubt received training and orders suited to his non combat role.
Reading suggestion–The Generals Son. It is first person history by the son of a general in the IDF.
Full magazine, empty chamber is what I was taught (and had to teach) in the Swiss military for patrol/guard duty type operations. The idea being that racking the bolt would be a separate step of deescalation, in the hope it’ll intimidate an attacker (as pretty well shown by the video).
That said, I’ve witnessed plenty of Tueller drill type exercises where the soldier would have been shot or stabbed even if he’d gotten a shot off, so I’m very opposed to the concept.
You would be opposed to the concept until you had to deal with the consequences of your soldiers carrying con1. In a structure like a military unit or army mistakes become not just possible but guaranteed. In the end it is a mathematical problem. You may lose men to an empty chamber procedure but you WILL have NDs with loaded chambers. In active combat you chose one, in a peace keeping operation you chose the other. Plain and simple, in either situation soldiers are resources. Currency to be pent as wisely as possible.
Why, practically speaking, would you choose to carry a defensive (meaning it’s only getting used when and if you are fearful of being killed, and need it right then and there) firearm, that would require two hands to make it capable of functioning? It’s difficult to draw from concealment and accurately fire under stress, add the requirement of racking the pistol and it becomes even more difficult. Yes you can train to become fast in draw-rack-fire, but…. What if you’ve been injured, or are engaged with the person presenting that threat, and don’t have the luxury of using that second hand to rack the slide? Sure, you can run the slide against a belt, or other object….again try it under extreme stress, or with someone on top of you bashing your head in. Sorry I’ll keep my carry gun ready to use, with a safety on (if equipped) If I ever unfortunately have to use it, I might not even have time to use the sights, let alone execute a two or one handed racking operation.
I have no worries that my pistol will discharge while holstered, or any other time the trigger isn’t being pressed.
You are looking at it from a civilian CC perspective. And you are right on in that regard. However in THIS scenario you have neglected several overriding points. Most importantly unlike you or I this man is not a free civilian. He has not made the decision to carry empty chamber. He has been ordered to do so. When you accept that ask why the order? The order is due to a reality that is probably completely alien to you. Un like you or I this soldiers main objective is not self preservation. In his reality as reflected by his standing orders his death is NOT the worst thing that could happen, perhaps an ND sparking a large deadly riot is of concern? With thousands of soldiers like this one deployed around civilians with aggressive and non aggressive elements intermixed don’t you think those in command would be concerned about the consequences of the almost certain eventuality of an ND or other mistake?
From Artuz Sheva; Israel National News
Hevron Commander – It’s OK to Cock Weapon
by Iddo Ben Porat, Gil Ronen
The commander of the IDF’s Hevron Brigade, Col. Avi Baluth, hinted Monday at his support for IDF soldier David Adamov, who recently inadvertently gained fame when he was videotaped by Hevron Arabs, cocking his weapon in response to a threatening situation.
Adamov, who has become widely known as ‘Avi the Nahal Soldier’ (‘Avi the Nahlawi’), came under initial criticism from the IDF for his aggressive response to the provocation staged by a group of local Arabs armed with video cameras.
Baluth addressed the Independence Day celebration at the Cave of Machpela compound and received stormy applause when he said: “I, as Brigade Commander, give my backing to the soldiers, and expect them to defend the nation proudly – to cock the weapon when necessary, to shoot on target when needed, and to do it all in a thought-out manner, with cool-minded decision, without losing control and with clean language, as is proper for an Israeli soldier.”
This is the first time that an IDF officer openly gives backing to Adamov – albeit without naming him. Initially, the IDF distanced itself from him, and said he had behaved improperly. When faced with a maelstrom of online support for Adamov, the military denied that Adamov’s jail sentence was due to the incident with the Arab youths, and explained that he had been sentenced for previous disciplinary infractions.
Regardless of why Adamov was sent to jail, the huge online rebellion the incident spurred among soldiers from all units indicates the degree of frustration that soldiers feel in the face of what they perceive as unfairly stringent open-fire orders. “Central Command and the Judea and Samaria theater have turned into a Russian roulette,” wrote one reservist, “in which the lives, health and dignity of soldier and civilians hang in the balance, while Palestinian marauders enjoy near complete immunity in what an only be described as operational recklessness.”
A video uploaded to Youtube by an Arab photographer earlier this year shows a crowd of youths from the Jilazoun neighborhood near Beit El, throwing rocks at IDF soldiers and approaching them until they are just a few feet away.
The soldiers show extreme restraint, even trying to stop the stones with their hands, until the moment when their commander apparently feels that their lives are in danger, and gives the OK to open fire. It is likely that the soldiers fired rubber-coated bullets, however, and that they may have been fired in the air in warning, rather than being aimed at the bodies of the rioters.
Since I never patrol on the West Bank or SE DC this video offers no practical tactical instruction for me. I use my awareness of the environment to spot and avoid potential threats. Unlike the Israeli soldier or your local LEO it is not my job to closely approach potential trouble.
Stretch your imagination a bit and visualize the ever popular SHTF scenario. It dosent need to be anything apocalyptic, just a local disaster or some civil unrest. Its not hard to imagine a situation where you may chose to take up arms against a potentially violent population with the intent to maintain peace for the safety of your family friends neighbors or country. If you ever found your self in such a scenario you might want to remember that approaching into a crowd of taunting opponents and allowing your self to be flanked is a poor tactic.
i’m surprised nobody launched into a dissertation about the crusades. as my sister used to say, ‘america’s prejudices are in their infancy’. my wife and my identrical (sp.) twin sister in law are daughters of a matronly jew and a paternal turk. want fireworks? bring the ‘occupation’ up at the next pork roast. i sit back with a mojito and the 9 and the first 1 dialed.
go back far enough and they were all wandering around in the desert. the term nomadic comes to mind. borders? whatever.
i’ll go out on a limb and express myself: i’d cut funding in a heartbeat like a west side dick peering across the oak park border and thinking ‘they’re doing our work for us’. the reality is however that with such a well educated jewish community that has permeated american media and government, our ties to israel will never be severed.
we are stuck with them.
I’m thinkin’ the Jews were not involved in the Crusades, that was the Catholics, but I could be wrong. That would be why they haven’t come up here.
I guess the Catholics were doing “the work” back then.
We can say what we wish about tactics (I would agree that the soldier put himself in a difficult position, and could have acted in a manner to be better positioned for a fight.) That being said, I know from direct testimony of IAF soldiers that they are often harassed in ways that we would probably not tolerate, so let’s not be too quick to judge. If one were to confront a police officer in the U.S. in that manner (in your face, hands on, shoving, etc.) you are VERY likely to get shot, so let’s not pontificate about the IDF. They have a very difficult job facing a very dangerous enemy, and they are far more restrained that most of us would be.
I’m 100% in favor of an Israeli homeland.
It just should have been carved out of the land of the people who tried to kill all the world’s Jewish population, not in the middle of hostile territory.
As for all the stupid talk about “there was never a country called Palestine”. That’s because the region was never organized on the nation state model. There was a broad empire until 1918, after the dissolution of which, local ethnic groups drew new borders and formed new states. Except the Palestinians, who were prevented from doing the same because of the British colonial powers who wanted the land for the new Israel.
And for all the Mozlems are bad, Jews are good idiots. In Israel itself, anytime you encounter a Palestinian, there’s about a 1:10 chance that he/she is a Christian.
So it ain’t that simple.
Lastly, I thought this site was about guns,
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