Media headlines heralded “Americans Want Stricter Gun Laws!” based on a recently released poll by the Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research at the University of Chicago. But a close reading of the data, including quotes from respondents within, demonstrate that’s not actually the case.
Swallowed Whole
The new survey by AP-NORC suggests U.S. adults want to see stronger gun laws. According to the poll, 71 percent of respondents prefer “stricter gun laws,” but it doesn’t go on to say what “stricter” means.
Demonstrating the severe flaws in the survey’s headline and the media’s obvious inability to critically analyze the report instead of just regurgitating it as gospel truth, that the survey says, “Three-fourths of Americans view gun violence as a major problem, and 8 in 10 say gun violence is on the rise in the United States…Many Americans…want to both prevent gun violence and protect gun rights. In particular, 52% say it is both very important to prevent mass shootings and very important to ensure people are able to own guns for personal protection.”
Case in point are the several largest cities across the country, which are all run by Democrat mayors who already implement strict gun control policies. These are places where crime is rampant and city residents are fleeing in droves. The above-the-fold headlines proclaiming “Americans Want Criminals Held Accountable!” are nowhere to be found.
Responders On Record
Despite the topline suggestion, on-the-record respondents included in the AP-NORC report actually stated why they don’t support various policies or more restrictions on guns. One specific policy NORC asked respondents about was a nationwide ban on the sale of semiautomatic rifles, or AR-15-style firearms. Less than 60 percent support that policy, according to NORC.
A recent Reload.com report showed that support for a ban on modern sporting rifles (MSRs) reached a new low, below 50 percent, right as the U.S. House of Representatives passed a partisan bill to ban them. It will not receive a vote in the U.S. Senate. NSSF industry data shows since 1990 there are now more than 24.4 million MSRs in circulation as of 2020. That figure includes more than 4.5 million added since 2018.
From the NORC report, respondent Nicole Whitelaw, a 29-year-old Democrat and gun owner, said proposals like banning AR-15s “goes too far, and may not solve the problem.”
Also quoted was Chris Boylan, a 47-year-old teacher from Indianapolis. He said, “gun violence is a major problem…and believes the issue is more about mental health and a too-lenient criminal justice system.” Boylan added, “Blaming the gun is an oversimplification of what the issues really are. It’s not the gun.”
Reality vs. Fantasy
As much as gun control advocacy groups, and a sympathetic media, would prefer, Americans aren’t buying more gun control. They’re buying more firearms and doing so in record numbers.
Poll after poll has shown Americans rejecting pushes for more gun control and more than 1 million National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) verifications for the purchase of a gun have been processed for 34 months and counting. That includes more than 14 million first-time gun owners since 2020 and included the most diverse population of gun buyers ever.
A NORC survey from April declared surprise that minority Americans, including African, Hispanic and Asian Americans, would be concerned about crime and their safety. “We found that their [people of color] views align really well with other gun owners even though demographically they’re so different,” said NORC senior fellow John Roman. Firearm industry retailer data has shown minorities are legally buying firearms in record numbers, with African American women leading the way. Even the media has taken notice and reported on the new face of the American gun owner.
Over the past two and a half years, background checks for the sale of a firearm have been higher even in Blue states with strict gun control like California and New York. Despite what misleading headlines appear to suggest, law-abiding Americans have acted the opposite.
Most importantly, the Second Amendment doesn’t disappear no matter what polling says.
Larry Keane is SVP for Government and Public Affairs, Assistant Secretary and General Counsel of the National Shooting Sports Foundation.
No thinking, sane person wants more gun control. I live in the heart of liberal San Fran bay area. People here are gunning up. Many that I know have never owned nor wanted to own a gun are now on their second and third.
The current administration has ruined the economy and the hopes of a lot of folks. They’ve created a lawless country were fear runs rampant.
I guess we should thank barry and joe burden for making 100% firearms ownership in America a near certainty.
No thinking, sane person would vote for a senile puppet who can barely put together a coherent sentence when he isn’t reading from a teleprompter or isn’t hyped up on drugs. Thank propaganda and tribalism.
What happens when Gun Owners roll over like puppy dogs and allow media sleazebags to set the pace with such dribble as Gun Violence. Violence is Violence Period.
And of course media sleazebags know they can safely promote such sleazy attempts at Gun Control because politically inept history illiterate Gun Owners fail at every opportunity to define Gun Control by its long history of of Rot.
End result? Gullible America assumes Gun Control is sugar and spice and everything nice.
Manipulative push polling like this coupled with the reporting that omits all the fine print is exactly what manufacturing consent is all about. Always nudging.
The problem with surveys are two fold: whom they survey and how questions are phrased. Of the people that do want stricter gun control, I would make an educated guess, are many who are completely unaware of existing laws, particularly since Democrats and their media flunkies lie at every opportunity about how easy it is to get a gun. Since at least 50% of Americans, particularly in large urban areas, have never seen or touched a firearm of any kind, they have no personal experience or interest in what it takes to buy a gun, even those that have no visceral fear of guns. I would guess that no question about gun laws is ever prefaced with what gun laws exist already, hence the survey would drop 10-20% from the “need more strict gun laws” column, if people were first familiarized with at least Federal gun laws.
After the second Los Angles uprising a lot of non-owners were astounded when attempting to buy a gun at the local gun store to find out that they had to wait 15 days(at that time) before they could pick up their roscoe. They also had to take a written test to show that they at least knew out of which end the bullet exited. They had to add the price of the test to the price of the gun plus the cost of the background check to make sure they weren’t a felon so like the MSRP price on the car, the sticker price on the gun was a little short of the out-the-door price, especially when one added in the sales tax.
Despite that, there was no overwhelming dump on the idiots in Schitzomento to change the laws. I suspect many of them thought once they had jumped through the hoops that they wouldn’t have to do it again. Big surprise. You have to keep your permission slip current — every five years you have to take the quiz again. You have to pay the background check fee every time you purchase a firearm. It doesn’t matter that they did the drill last month, you have to pay to have the check all over again. Good exercise if one moves to a the Peoples Republic of China or whatever they are calling Russia these days. Hard to keep up with all the political turmoil. Or you could move to Kallyfornicadia and get a good preview.
Funny. Every time I ask my anti gun acquaintances what common sense gun law they would propose, EVERYTHING they bring up is ALREADY the law. I point this out and usually get, “Oh, I didn’t know that.” I want to respond, but don’t, “Exactly; you don’t know.”
“Americans Want Stricter Gun Laws!”
There is no reason to spend time getting bogged down in the weeds with all the stats, data, history, and the idea that there are complete idiots out there (some of whom are in the media).
The truth is that there ARE Americans that want stricter gun laws. There are quite a few. We even have some on TTAG. So if the AP says that, it is the truth. Although that does NOT mean a majority of Americans feel that way.
Its very gratifying to see the pro gun comments on here that represent two traits that are in short supply on the Left. Logic and common sense. When you realize that 9 of the points of making this a socialist country are already in play in the USA and are being pushed by the Biden Administration and their lacky Cabinet Heads who are totally incompetent, you can understand why people want to have the ability to own a firearm for self-protection. This is necessary to protect yourselves from both the criminals and the Government, particularly this one. When they tell you they are hiring 87,000 IRS agents who will be armed with military grade weapons and equipment and should be willing to use lethal force that they are here to provide a service to the American Citizens it is very hard not to laugh. First, they will never recover the money in tax fraud to offset the cost associated with these 87,000 agents.
Second, if you have seen the training videos you know most of these people will not survive a confrontation with the majority of the American Public who have been using firearms for years. It is important for all American Citizens who cherish their freedom to pushback against any and all attempts to violate your Constitutional Rights by our corrupt Federal law enforcement agencies, namely the FBI, ATF, Homeland Security, IRS, DOJ, and others that might try to con you into believing they have the legal authority to do things they do not.
They cannot enter your home without a warrant. Red Flag laws are no exception. Never allow them into your home because that grants de facto permission for them to arrest you if they should see something in your home that is illegal. If they want to talk to you ask for a card and what they want and you will have your legal representative call them to set up a meeting at a neutral cite not in their office. In short, unless they present you with a legal document like a subpoena or warrant you are not under any obligation to speak to them. Never offer to give them any information about your firearms and don’t fall for any schemes to get your serial numbers, number of firearms, etc. Do not cooperate because they do not have the resources to follow up on over 150 million gun owners for every delay you throw in their path. If they try to force their way into your home without a valid warrant invoke your Make my Day or Castle Domain state law and treat them as you would any intruder uninvited into your home. In short resist and make every act of theirs pay a price in time and resources.
This question should be asked in every such poll:
“Do you believe that criminals will follow new guns laws?”
The media doesn’t like us poor that don’t have private security.
What does STRICTER mean??
Are you brain dead? If I asked my ten year old Grandson ‘what does stricter’ mean he could write a bloody essay.
Only an illiterate would have trouble withn the meaning of the word ‘stricter’ and I would seriously hope that all a American pro-gunners are not illiterate. Where does this ballsocks come from when you have to take issue with the meaning of the word STRICTER
None of this craziness would be an issue if not for the Democrat left.
“What does STRICTER mean??
“Are you brain dead?”
Answering your own questions now, I see. Saves the rest of us time that we’d waste in answering.
“Only an illiterate would have trouble withn [sic] the meaning of the word ‘stricter’…”
Stricter than what?
Oh, before I forget — f*** off, Albert.
Albert the Poncey, Fake-Limey, Fake-Military Subject,
I hope pitiful Limey “subjects” eventually grow some cojones and stop being subjects . . . bet I get more out of my hope than you do.
Now, on to reality. If you are so stupid and indoctrinated (and I could readily believe you are), that there are not (not only on “gun violence”, but on MANY subjects) two different views on what “stricter” means . . . you’re too bloody stupid to insult.
“Stricter gun laws” MIGHT mean restricting sales of AR-15s. Or it MIGHT also mean actually LOCKING UP criminals who commit crimes using firearms, and throw away the key. I’m of the second sort, and I sincerely believe that is the appropriate type of “stricter” gun laws. YMMV – and I don’t give a s*** what your opinion is, both because you’re an ignoranus AND because you’re a fake-Limey.
More importantly, anyone knowledgeable about “polling” KNOWS that polls can be rigged to produce virtually ANY desired result. Pro tip: when a “poll result” is announced, ignore the headline. Go directly to the poll, and READ the actual opening statement and questions. If the poll doesn’t have those available, at least as an exhibit or footnote, it is garbage. Ignore it.
If they DO have the opening statement and questions, read them carefully. ARE THEY neutral? Do they include hidden (unproven) assumptions (almost all do). There are more detailed analyses of these two elements, but those two will put you light years ahead of 99.99% of the public.
Now, what was the sample size? How was it chosen? Was the poll conducted in person (some still are), by phone, or online? Who did the calling/interviewing?? What was their script (ALL pollsters, in any legitimate poll, follow a script)? If it was done in person, where was it conducted (I would posit that I would get a different result if I conducted a politically-oriented poll outside a college campus vs. a business district vs. a construction site vs. the local slum, eh???).
There are many more tricks that pollsters use, but those are the easy ones to detect and correct for.
Unfortunately, you pathetic wanking poofter of a fake-Limey, you’re too stupid to do any of that . . . and your opinions don’t matter, because you are a pathetic subject of a fake-Brit. So hie thyself off and fornicate thyself with a cricket bat, covered in broken glass and lubricated with hydrochloric acid and habanero juice, you lying, fake-Limey, wanking piece of fecal matter.
Oops.,
” . . . bet I get more out of my hope than you do.” should read ” , , , bet you get more out of your hope than do I.” I knew what I meant, and I hope y’all did . . . Albert the Fake-Limey isn’t capable of understanding anything. I don’t think he’s a dacian sock puppet (how can you be a sock puppet of another sock puppet???), but he’s clearly fake EVERYTHING.
“pathetic wanking poofter”
Hehehe! 🤣
Albert L J Hall, subject of the Queen in a uncivilized Country, you fail to understand the totality of the article and of the comments to key in one word.
“….I would seriously hope that all a American pro-gunners are not illiterate”
No need to hope, we are literate. We can read and comprehend our own Constitution just as well as those who wrote it. We also know self defense is right older than any governments ever created. A government that denies that right is uncivilized and immoral.
It’s so easy you can’t even answer your own question and instead waste your time with emotional nonsense.
I’m sure your ancestors ran home with their hands between their legs!!!!
Polls demonstrate the ability of the pollster to craft questions to get the results they are paid to get to support something.
Very few polls are conducted without an underlying agenda for them. Polls are more like bellwethers of the agenda being pushed.
Poll: Most Americans see gun violence as a major problem, want stricter gun laws
https://news.uchicago.edu/story/poll-most-americans-see-gun-violence-major-problem-want-stricter-gun-laws
Background checks
Background checks are by far the least controversial aspect of gun legislation, according to a whole lot of surveys. Roughly 80 to 90 percent of Americans support universal background checks, which would mean all sellers would have to verify that a person doesn’t have a history of violent crime or domestic abuse before they can buy a gun. As Robin Lloyd, managing director of the gun control advocacy group Giffords, put it, “Background checks on every gun sale polls higher than people who support ice cream.”
Guns are killing more young Americans than cars now
Red flag laws
Americans overwhelmingly support red flag laws, otherwise known as extreme risk protection orders, which work similarly to restraining orders. Again, these laws allow police and family members to petition a court — which would determine whether there’s enough evidence to do so — to temporarily keep guns from people who might be a threat to themselves or others. Some 77 percent of Americans think that a family member should be able to petition a court to do this, while 70 percent think police should, according to a survey by APM Research Lab.
The US has more guns than its peers. It also has more gun violence.
Assault-style weapons and high-capacity magazines
Bans on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines have an approval rating of over 60 percent in the US, according to Pew.
The astounding rate at which American children are murdered by guns
2019 data reveals kids in the US are much more likely to die in a homicide committed with a firearm than kids in Western Europe, Canada, and Australia.
Concealed carry
Though it varies by party, the vast majority (81 percent) of Americans oppose laws that would allow people to carry concealed handguns without a permit
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/23141651/gun-control-american-approval-polling
Still getting it wrong. At this point it must be deliberate. Or you are just stupid.
“And”
Running to polls that back your claim that are years old, don’t benifit your anti-gun rant..
All your postings prove you are “ANTI-LIBERTY” and loves being a “SUBJECT” to the Gov’t!!!!
You have proved my premise about poll.
Thank you and excellent job.
Sheesh… if your rants weren’t so comical I’d say you’re an idiot. But I think you’re just a clown. I mean a poll by Vox? Really? Let’s go Brandon!
a lot of these “children” are black..that doesn’t make it ok…but they need to differentiate…something they seem loathe to do….
half the states now allow permitless carry…with no noticeable change in the crime rate….
if you want universal background checks…something that is probably unnecessary…then you should allow universal access to the system….
@dacian
“Roughly 80 to 90 percent of Americans support universal background checks”
That’s false
“Guns are killing more young Americans than cars now”
That’s false
Over 2,000,000 people annually are (collectively) seriously injured or killed in car accidents. ~1.2 to ~1.7 million will die later annually as a result of complications from those serious injuries which cause problems that cause bodily functions to cease functioning so the cause of death is listed as what ever the bodily function was. This is an example of where stats are deceptive – the stats for car accident deaths only include those who die ‘proximate’ to the car accident time, they do not include the ones that die later as a result of the accident serious injuries. So in reality, due to the serious injuries, ~1.2 to ~1.7 million die annually as a result of car accident , over 300,000 of those are under age 30 or in other words “young Americans” (90,000 of those seriously injured annually are children under age 12, ~28% of these will die annually later as a result of those serious injuries).
“Americans overwhelmingly support red flag laws, otherwise known as extreme risk protection orders, which work similarly to restraining orders.”
false on so many levels.
1. Americans think that people who present a danger to them selves or others should be addressed. They don’t support ‘red flag laws’, but rather they respond to a survey question that’s phrased in a manner that provides something along the lines of what they think.
2. When people respond to those surveys they do not realize what is really being stated as ‘red flag’ is this : “Extreme risk protection order (ERPO) laws, sometimes known as gun violence restraining order or “red-flag” laws, are risk-based, temporary, and preemptive protective orders that authorize the removal of firearms from individuals determined to be at risk for committing gun violence against others or themselves.” and don’t realize they are executed in a ‘biased and discriminatory’ manner without any real ‘probable cause or justification’ in over 90% of cases. If the survey questions included that these ‘red flag’ laws are executed in a ‘biased and discriminatory’ manner without any real ‘probable cause or justification’ in over 90% of cases they would think twice about about answering that question.
3. “Again, these laws allow police and family members to petition a court — which would determine whether there’s enough evidence to do so” is false 100%. First, although in some cases a court is involved, over 87% of such are ‘exigent circumstances’ meaning a court is not needed because such requires immediate action – 98% of these turn out to be ‘false alarms’ because a family member or another person ‘called the police’ and reported circumstances and events that were not true and was upset because a person made them angry for some reason and wanted to ‘make them pay’ – its not till later after the victim of this has had their home and persons invaded and searched and then held against their will without warrant or cause or evidence that a court decides. Overall, over 92% of people in this country that are held under red flag laws (or a combination of laws that have the same effect – all 50 states already have such laws by the way) with ‘gun’ being the reason don’t even own a gun or have access to a gun, and are held under the police ‘exigent circumstances’ excuse and no court interaction because someone said so with no evidence at all.
the rest of your context is also false.
@dacian
“The US has more guns than its peers. It also has more gun violence.”
The U.S. has more crime gun violence, not more violence or more gun violence because guns exist as you imply.
But in the same context of crime gun violence – only 1 in 12 criminals in the U.S. use a gun for such violence and about 50% of that 1 in 12 actually fire, the rest use other means especially a knife or other sharpened or edged weapon. Criminal knife violence accounts for over 400,000 victims annually in the United States – hand/feet/other objects (not guns) used by criminals in crime violence account for over 300,000 victims annually in the United States – ~130,000 annually under the age of 18 are the victims of hand/feet/other objects (not guns)/knives/other-sharpened-pointed-weapons used by criminals in crime violence and about 68,000 of those annually happen on school grounds during school hours. Over 80% of these victims are (collectively) seriously injured or killed, those who die later after the attack their causes of death are listed and accounted for in stats as the ‘bodily function’ that ceased as a result of those serious injuries.
Once again, when you look at stats for other forms of (non-gun) crime violence they appear lower because they are only showing those ‘proximate’ to the violence time when in reality most of the victims who will die will die later as a result of the serious injuries and then their deaths are disguised in the stats for other causes (the bodily function that ceased to function as a result of the serious injury) when in reality it was due to the other forms of (non-gun) crime violence.
‘Gun violence’ is especially highlighted as overall ‘violence’ as if it was intentional due to agenda because ‘death and injury’ ‘when someone gets shot’ is usually more immediate and obvious. In reality such ‘violence’ only accounts for less then 2% of all criminal violence methods in the U.S. which is actually less than all criminal violence methods employed in any other country including Western Europe, Canada, Australia, (and the U.K.).
Overall: Only about 11% of all such violent crime appears in stats – less than 9% of such criminals are identified and caught, and less then 3% of such criminals are convicted.
“The astounding rate at which American children are murdered by guns
2019 data reveals kids in the US are much more likely to die in a homicide committed with a firearm than kids in Western Europe, Canada, and Australia.”
False.
Children are much more likely to die as a result of serious injuries sustained in car accidents and by crime violence using methods other than guns.
@dacian
seriously, you need to learn what the word ’cause’ and context means and stop throwing crap around in your confirmation bias.
A death that happens as a result of a bodily function ceasing later after a serious injury, as a result of that serious injury, the ’cause’ is listed as what ever that ‘bodily function ceasing’ was and not the serious injury even though the serious injury was the reason that ‘bodily function ceasing’ happened which means the real ’cause’ (underlying) was the serious injury.
73% of those gun shot survive their serious injury, but their cause its listed a ‘gun violence’ reason.
Over 70% of those attacked by knife or other non-gun methods do not survive their serious injury, but their ’cause’ is listed as that ‘bodily function ceasing’ and not ‘knife or other non-gun methods violence’.
Then the self-defense thing …. over half of the so called ‘homicides’ anti-gun stats were actually self-defense result so were not actually true ‘homicides’ but rather self-defense. A self-defense shooting is broadly a ‘justifiable homicide’ in law, but anti-gun doesn’t differentiate it this way and instead just show it as ‘homicide’ which in a way in the very broad sense is true in terms of the legal definitions but still disingenuous. Then they throw the word ‘violence’ into the mix and claim its a result ‘gun violence’ as though its intentional homicide when in reality over half of that in their stats thrown around was not intentional but rather self defense with no other choice which is why its ‘justifiable’ and why anti-gun claims the thousands of cases daily with good guys with guns employing valid DGU doesn’t exist as it counters their control of the narrative. Then along comes idiots like you, and like anti-gun (which you are anyway), start throwing these terms around without any understanding of their context because they read them in confirmation bias.
Not only is the anti-gun narrative false and disingenuous, its actually promoting more crime violence by other means because its removing resources and attention and devoting them to ‘guns’ that represents less than 2% of crime violence which is why criminal knife violence and other non-gun methods have increased tremendously and is being largely ignored despite literally hundreds of thousands of victims annually with less then 11% shown in stats because the criminal is not identified or caught.
But you feel free to go ahead and reply with a ‘booger brain’ if you wish, what ever you reply will be just as false and disingenuous as you are.
to Booger Brain
quote————-“The astounding rate at which American children are murdered by guns
2019 data reveals kids in the US are much more likely to die in a homicide committed with a firearm than kids in Western Europe, Canada, and Australia.”
False.
Children are much more likely to die as a result of serious injuries sustained in car accidents and by crime violence using methods other than guns.—————-quote
Your response is Non-Sequitur. The Statistics were comparing child deaths by gunfire in the U.S. to Child deaths from gunfire in other countries both of which have zero to do with child deaths by other means. Really are you on drugs today Booger Brain.
quote———–Then the self-defense thing …. over half of the so called ‘homicides’ anti-gun stats were actually self-defense result so were not actually true ‘homicides’ but rather self-defense——–quote
Unsubstantiated wild claim because the studies took that fact into consideration. In other words you flat out lied.
quote———-Over 70% of those attacked by knife or other non-gun methods do not survive their serious injury, but their ’cause’ is listed as that ‘bodily function ceasing’ and not ‘knife or other non-gun methods violence’.———-quote
Again you rant on about a totally different subject (with wild claims) as it has zero to do with the Statistics on homicide by gunfire not by other means.
quote———–. A self-defense shooting is broadly a ‘justifiable homicide’ in law, but anti-gun doesn’t differentiate it this way and instead just show it as ‘homicide’ which in a way in the very broad sense is true in terms of the legal definitions but still disingenuous.———-quote
Again you make wild unsubstantiated claims that all studies are identical and done by the same people. Accredited studies done by prestigious and professional organizations like Harvard etc are well aware of the difference between self-defense homicides and murder and they know that their studies would not be credible if they lumped them all together.
Really Booger Brain you failed big time on this rant.
dacian. It appears you critiqued your own false statements and then substituted .40 cals name.
You’re not at all good at this.
“Polls” and a recall signature campaign showed that Angelino’s wanted a safer county with criminal prosecution, then the socialist-democrat’s political machine said NO!
all these guns are a symptom…not the cause…just why are people buying them?…a question the left shies away from….
It’s propaganda. That’s how they have to operate. They don’t feel confident enough to debate on facts and logic because they would lose every time. You see the same thing with the abortion debate. They constantly tell us that everyone is for abortion. The truth is, 2/3 of pro-choice Democrat voters are against third trimester abortion.
There’s even a large pro-life movement among secular Progressive Democrats who recognize the service to the Abortion Industrial Complex who make billions chopping up babies and selling the parts. The abortion industry is a major source of power and funding for The Party. The Progressive group also truly believes in following the science and protecting the most vulnerable. https://paaunow.org/stances
As usual Dud brain you twist everything to fit your own lies and far right propaganda with your disingenuous half truths.
Yes, many of the right and left are against 3rd trimester abortion but many on both the left and right believe in a woman’s right to choose within reason. As a matter of fact the Republicans disastrous bid to outlaw abortion in conservative Kansas was a disastrous humiliation and slap in the far right Republicans faces as it failed overwhelmingly with both left and right women and men voting against the outrageous measure.
We Socialists now have a big gun to shoot off in the face of the radical Republicans in the upcoming elections who used their prostitutes on the Supreme Court to trash a 50 year old Constitutional right and ruling by the prior Supreme Court. The new court has lost all credibility with the American people which is a serious a blow to them as their idiotic overturn of Roe v/s Wade. No one now in the U.S. believes this current radical court gives a damn about Constitutional Rights when it crosses their own far right political agenda.
You call me a liar pushing propaganda, but you can’t tell me where I’m lying. That’s because I don’t lie in comments here. I posted a link that backs up what I said. Did you even bother reading it?
“Yes, many of the right and left are against 3rd trimester abortion but…”
So where did I lie? That’s right, I didn’t.
“…as it failed overwhelmingly with both left and right women and men voting against the outrageous measure.”
There’s this thing called nuance. Many pro-lifers voted against that measure as well because they felt it didn’t go far enough. It wasn’t just a simple abortion good/bad vote. Look at the long term trend. Abortion was already trending down. That’s because people are learning more about biology as well as what really happens during an abortion.
“radical Republicans”
There’s nothing radical about preserving and protecting life, and you don’t have to be a Republican to do so. That’s a lie told to keep us from uniting behind a cause. There’s nothing radical about following the Constitution. The radical position is to allow a baby, which is often far enough long to feel pain, to be violently ripped apart and sold off in pieces. The propaganda is what has tried to normalize that practice. People are waking up to the reality. The truth is, most people are ignorant on the subject because they’ve been subjected to the abortion industry’s propaganda all of their life. If you support the abortion industry, then you support capitalism which makes billions from exploiting the most vulnerable. I’m not even completely referring to the babies. I’m also talking about the mothers. You should seriously read the link I left. Like I said, these people are non-religious, anti-capitalist Progressives. They’re right up your alley.
“trash a 50 year old Constitutional right and ruling by the prior Supreme Court.”
Please list the Constitutional Amendment made 50 years ago that allows for abortion. Drop the talking points. Forget about tribalism. Democrat or Republican doesn’t matter. You know it’s wrong to take a life. You have nothing to lose by checking out that link. Left wingers used to believe in being open minded.
Dude, being open-minded presupposes that one actually has a mind.
Dacian doesn’t; not a functional one, anyway.
alien,
I don’t just post stuff like this for dacien. I know other people read these comments too. His above comment is a good example of how some people just focus on tribalism, and tune everything else out. Everyone, outside of a few exceptions, understands it’s wrong to take a life. The problem is, they’ve been convinced by the exploiters that it isn’t taking a life. People also fail to consider how the mothers are exploited and traumatized.
Abusers and traffickers alike rely on abortion to “dispose of the evidence” of abuse, and allow said abuse to continue. Up to 64% of people reported being coerced into abortion, and a Guttmacher Institute study concluded that pregnant people “with abusive partners are substantially over-represented among abortion patients”. Abortion dispenses abusers and traffickers from the responsibility of supporting children, and returns their victims to an “unpregnant” state so they can be continually used.
Clinic staff have not only ignored the cries for help, but have often offered to help cover up the abuse, especially that of minors. They have also allowed abusers to accompany victims into appointments and procedures.
https://paaunow.org/stances-capitalism
To Dud Brain
You distort American history as a former poster here listed a rather lengthy post detailing the many options in various states that made it legal for a Colonial American Woman to get an abortion. Obviously you ignored that historical fact.
You Far Right fanatics scream incessantly about “the right to privacy” when it comes to firearms but are complete hypocrites when it comes to the right to privacy of a woman and what she does with her own body. The Far Right regard women as their property and as sex slaves and believe they have the right to trash everyone else’s right to privacy when it runs counter to their far right jack booted ideology.
What is next Dud Brain? Forced baby farms that the German Nazi’s had in WWII as well as their bans on abortion. Is there really any difference between Far Right Republicans and Hitler’s boys? History proves that there is none.
Please seek help.
As usual d, you’re talking past me with your partisan talking points. Like I said, I post these comments because I know other people read them. I’ve tried talking to you before, and it’s a lost cause, as any sane, reasonable person can see.
I’m going to make a few important points that some people may not understand. The Tenth Amendment grants state governments all powers not delegated to the federal government in the Constitution. I know you can’t show me anywhere in the Constitution that grants the right to abortion because it does not exist. Therefore, that is a matter for individual states to decide. People within states elect their leaders based on how they want to be governed. This is known as democracy, which you obviously hate. I see that you also love capitalism because you’re twisting yourself into knots to defend the abortion industry which has nothing to do with so_shall_ism and everything to do with capitalism and crony capitalism, not to mention eugenics.
“Nazis”
Planned Parenthood was literally founded by a racist and eugenicist (M. Sanger). Her close friend and advisor (Ernst Rudin) who helped her was literally Hitler’s Director of Genetic Sterilization. The reason d is comparing pro-life to the Nazis is the reason I began this thread: propaganda! Of course, he has it backwards.
RE: The right to privacy. This was an excuse to legislate from the bench. That was the best they could come up with. Even left wing Constitutional scholars agree R v. W was a terrible decision. If this is what the people want, then their elected representatives will vote for it. Why hasn’t that been done? It’s because there isn’t as much support for it as the propaganda would have you believe. Furthermore, no one has the right to privately, or otherwise, take another life for the sake of convenience. That goes without saying, but many people don’t even think about or understand that it’s taking a life due to being fed abortion industry propaganda for their entire life.
You should go read some stories told by former abortion doctors. One stopped doing abortions after the baby kicked him. One stopped doing them after he looked at the pile of dismembered human parts that he pulled out and saw someone’s son or daughter. They say many young girls suddenly change their mind and don’t want the abortion after they start the procedure, but it’s too late. Why do you think we never hear those stories? Hmm…
“regard women as their property and as sex slaves”
You didn’t read the links I left, did you? You have it completely backwards d. Here’s another excerpt.
Abortion providers have also benefited from promotion or funding from high-profile abusers – Hugh Hefner, R. Kelly, Jeffrey Epstein, and Harvey Weinstein, to name a few. Since the time that these abusers have been exposed for their heinous crimes, there has been no statement or efforts from providers to apologize for their collaboration. Abortion is needed by abusers to continue their gruesome habits, and by providers to benefit from the abuse.
“…to trash a 50 year old Constitutional right and ruling by the prior Supreme Court.”
Plessy v. Ferguson; 7-1 decision by the Fuller court; “settled law” that stood for 58 years.
Klingon, without even being intelligent enough to realize it you just proved what I had been saying all along and that is that the courts often push their own political agenda and completely ignore the Constitution. In the Plessy v/s Ferguson ruling they ruled according to public opinion, not the Constitution, while in the overturning of Roe v/s Wade the court ruled along political ideology and overturned a previous right. Of course this is all too complicated for you to sort out.
Kudos for this article. Critics of the term “stricter” seem to miss the point that it means more difficult to acquire a firearm. Seems obvious that only an imbecile would disarm the victims. The term “stronger” should be interpreted as applied to misuse of a firearm. Since only criminals commit crimes, they misuse firearms more often.
“Stronger” begins with full application of existing laws. For example, the sentence for possession of a gun during a crime is five years to life in prison. The minimum sentence for brandishing a gun during a crime is of seven years to life in prison. If a firearm is discharged during a crime, the minimum sentence is 10 years to life in prison.
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