You could hear the exasperation in the SIG PR guy’s voice when he said it: “After every press release [for a new handgun], the very first question we get is ‘when are you going to make it in 10mm?’ It gets annoying.” Apparently the guys in Newington have finally relented, and as announced via the SIG Forum (and independently confirmed through our own sources) the release of a P220 in 10mm is on the horizon . . .
Here are the details:
Three models will be offered:
- P220 Stainless Elite 10mm, standard length slide and barrel, traditional DA/SA trigger
- P220 Match Elite 10mm, stainless, long slide, 5″ barrel, traditional DA/SA trigger
- P220 SAO 10mm, stainless, long slide, 5″ barrel, single action only trigger
The information we are getting is that the guns will feature 5″ barrels, and are still in development. Something tells me that a SHOT Show 2015 preview is within the realm of possibility, but SIG has a tendency to take their time on new projects so I wouldn’t count on it.
The P226 is without a doubt my favorite handgun to shoot. It was a great natural extension of the P220 line. A P220 in 10mm will pack a serious punch, so I’m looking forward to seeing what SIG SAUER does with the round.
If you like your 10mm, you can keep your 10mm.
10mm is one of the best round made today. Not sure why more folks don’t appreciate all it’s abilities.
It is hands down my favorite round. I ALWAYS take a 10mm hunting as a back up and have hunted exclusevly with it. I have CCW’d it as well. I just don’t mess witth many other rounds If i could only have one, 10mm would be it… hands down. I love my 9’s, 40’s and even 45’s… but when I want the ultimate round for protection anywhere, except when I’m in Alaska… 10mm ALWAYS on my side. If you try in the correct gun… I guarantee you’ll fall in love:-)
I carry a Glock 29 10 millimeter ever single day and I would love to have sig for hunting and range the sig stainless elite is the best looking gun I have ever seen
You can blame Guns&Ammo for that. They did a review and the writer claimed that the nasty round hurt his soft ickle baby hands and was too much for his poor ickle self to control. So with one swipe of the pathetic pen the 10mm was consigned to the footnotes for years. Being an engineer I base my choices on the numbers and it’s impossible to argue against 16 rounds at 357 magnum levels in a semi auto that is way more pleasant to shoot that any 357 revolver. I was shooting 10mm in the UK 20 years ago and it has taken all this time to get past one bad writer. Next came the FBI who claimed their poor ickle hands hurt too. S&W helpfully made the short and wimpy version. Next most manufacturers loaded the 10mm down to 40S&W levels, but kept charging 10mm prices. So now there are a few full power manufacturers and we are finally getting a few new pistols. My first pistol in the US was a G20 and everyone who shoots it thinks it is an absolute blast. Absolutely no regrets and the G20 is is my most reliable gun, two stoppages in 15 years and both were bad ammo.
The only thing that will stop me from buying one of these will be the price. I set the over/under at $1k.
Oh, and Nick, I’m pretty sure that the P226 was an extension of the P220 line and not the other way around.
The first two models I agree. The SAO, as long as they don’t whore it up, I’d guess setting into the 8-something range after a bit.
That said, if that happens, I will be getting one. I’ve wanted to get into 10mm for some time, however, while I have a few glocks, I didn’t really want one in 10mm. This, and I’ll need to pick up some new reloading dies 😀
That’s what he said. READ!!!
It was originally phrased the other way, then corrected. The comment you are responding to predates the fix.
Lighten up.
I wonder why SIg chose the P220 over the P227 for the 10MM chambering.
The sig 10mm should be in 227 fr ame. If you build it. built it right first time.
Frame dimensions, and the fact during testing only the Stainless elite frames passed muster, while the other’s didnt. THe P227 isnt a stainless frame that I know of.
Would love for some manufacturer to drive down price of 10mm FMJ before I make the plunge. . .
Totally agree Dirk! All the same components as .40 S&W, just 3mm longer case? What’s the problem?
Demand. (is the problem)
Or more to the point. A lack there of.
Things like ammo become cheaper to produce the more of it you produce. With things like 9mm and .40 S&W it’s very cost effective to make because you can count on moving millions and millions of rounds easily. 10mm is not as easy to move so it is more expensive for a producer to commit to making it because there is not as much demand.
The funny thing is, because there isn’t as much demand for 10mm it becomes expensive, and because it’s expensive people shy away from the round, and demand drops. Because demand dropped companies don’t want to produce it and it becomes more expensive. A predictable cycle emerges. Without you even realizing it, 10mm is so expensive BECAUSE you are waiting around for it to become cheap before you buy in. If you want the round buy in, the smart thing is to bet that prices will only go up (thank inflation), then introduce as many people to the round as possible and hope new demand drives new companies to produce.
Feedback loops, how do they work?!
It is the same reason 380 is so expensive, they have to convert a line that is producing one ammo/component, to produce the other ammo/component. It it isn’t a popular ammo/component they need to charge more to make it economical.
Doesn’t 10mm use it’s own brass (I know it’s longer than .40; I mean thicker webbing)? That’s significant.
I’d love that, but I foresee a new set of reloading dies in my future. The 10MM P220 in SAO has my name on it and I cannot afford to shoot factory 10mm loads. I’d guess a 300 rounds of good factory ammo that, in turn, become a reloading base for several cycles.
I have been trying to find a 10 mm that isn’t a glock. This would be nice if I could afford it. Guess it’s back to the Glock 20.
well it’ll be at least a year before anything comes to market, just start stashing away cash now and you should at least be close when the first ones start hitting gun stores
Check out the EAA Witness lineup.
I second that one. I’ve been a fan of the Witness 10mm for years. The steel frame models are heavy. But they’ve always treated me great.
Colt delta elite. You’re welcome.
If memory serves the original ones had problems with frame cracking over time. Not sure if that has been fixed in modern examples.
Yep, that was only the very early models. The current generation and most of the old generation don’t have the issue.
The word you were looking for was “Kimber”.
Exactly!
There is also the Dan Wesson Razorback.
I second this, although DWs are usually way more expensive than a P220 or a Delta Elite.
Wasn’t really meant as a recommendation (I don’t trust a 1911 new in box to actually frigging reliably work, any farther than I can throw a crate filled with 1911 of them) but just pointing out options.
FWIW, I didn’t like Glocks until I got my Glock 20.
Same here.
I never disliked Glocks per se but they never did enough for me to buy one. The slide problems and more than a few reports of EAA’s iffy customer service steered me away from the Witness and toward the G-20. I eventually found a lightly used SF model with some nice aftermarket work done to it by a local outfit called Glock Meister. I love, love, love shooting it!
Glockmeister is local for me too. I was looking for a .44 Mag woods gun when I stumbled on my G20 on Backpage. It had a number of upgrades and I’ve been a happy camper. She purrs like a kitten with the factory hardball (FBI-powered loads), but is pretty manageable with the full-house stuff.
Corbon 200 gr RN Penetrator loads for the woods, Federal Trophy Bonded 180 gr loads for home defense or trips out on Arizona’s lonely roads. 15+1 of either. I love it!
I bought my gen 4 as a hunting side arm but every time I shoot it I’m reminded that it needs about $500 of parts before I’m happy with it (trigger, barrel, sights, etc.) if the SIG is suitable from the factory, it would wind up being cheaper
I love my G20 ,I have done some upgrades on it and now ,it is my favorite gun.And I never liked Glocks
before untill I got and shot my 10mm.
I’m sure their reluctance has had something to do with that other round they designed, the .357 SIG
When are you going to make a 10mm with a 6″ compensated barrel? I’d like to make a follow-up shot the same day as the first.
I’m wondering why it should take that much “engineering” when my Glock 21 swaps to 10mm with a simple barrel change.
Theoretically yes. If you want absolute reliability, swap barrel, extractor and trigger housing (it holds the ejector).
You can get a barrel At Lone Wolf dist.They sell all kinds of barrels-stainless steel upgraded barrels And you
people that cannot find ammo for your 10mm ,go to Ammo seek .com ,they have over 300 kinds of 10mm to pick from.
220 came first. In 9mm single stack with euro heel mag release. Later came the double stack 226. I love love love the 226.
“This is great news. Now when are they gonna make it in .38 Super and .45 Mars Long?!”
Waiting for it…
They already made a p220 in .38 super. Now granted that was back in the early 80’s and finding one is nigh-on impossible, but they’re out there.
On the Sig.Forum there is a group which has been modifying Stainless P220s and converting them to 10mm. The cost is almost prohibitive for anyone but the truly dedicated.
Good for the guys in New Hampshire, they (eventually) listened to their customers.
I have concerns that the aluminum frame on the Sig will not hold up to a steady diet of full power 10mm loads. The old Colt delta elite 1911’s would sometimes crack. The glock holds up well as the frame can flex some. The sig? Time will tell. Any engineers have thoughts on this?
They’ll be using the Stainless model which has a steel frame and not an aluminum frame.
Looks like the frames will all be Stainless…so no aluminum.
Glad to see more offerings in the 10mm Auto! When this becomes available, it may become my first Sig.
This was my thinking too. I have always thought sigs were beautiful, but I have this thing about gun size and weight being proportional to the round it’s chambered in(for the most part anyway). I really like 9mm and any gun larger and heavier than a glock 19 seems weird to me. I only shoot 45 acp out of 1911s for fun at the range, but I would love to have a semi auto range/woods gun. Glock 20 is too bulky for my taste, but this sig might be just the ticket.
“The P226 is without a doubt my favorite handgun to shoot, and the P220 was a great natural extension of that line.”
That would make a hell of a lot more sense if it wasn’t for the fact that the P226 was an extension of the P220 line, not the other way around like you said.
You misquoted him. The second part of his statement was a complete sentence, “It was a great natural extension of the P220 line.”.
Considering how many other people commented on it as well, I think there was a stealth edit on the article.
It was changed. What I have in quotes is exactly what he had before the stealth edit. I copied/pasted the sentence and only added the quotation marks. A bunch of other people called him out on it too and he or someone else probably saw them all while the comments were awaiting moderation and changed it.
Yeah just take my money already… I have been debating picking up a modern 10mm for a while but always felt my 40 S&W glock was too snappy so wasnt very eager to add a couple hundred ft lbs of muzzle energy to a pistol that’s basically the same size. If this costs close to the 45ACP P220 count me in. It either that or a Colt Delta Elite.
Considering the Glock .40’s are on the smaller frame, it isn’t analogous to shooting 10mm out of the large frame.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a lot of recoil. But, I remember distinctly not liking a .40 Glock I shot. It was indeed snappy. But I only shoot a G20 and I like it.
Added bonus: Buy an aftermarket .40 barrel for the G20 and you can enjoy a softer Glock .40.
Do you happen to recall if that .40 cal Glock was a 22 (full size) or 23 (compact) or maybe even whateverthecktheynumberedtheirsubcompact?
I own both a 22 and a 20, though I’ve never shot them together to compare (subjective) recoil, not that any comparison would be meaningful anway, really, since ball 10mm only comes out of reloading presses, near as I can tell.
Pretty sure it was a full size .40. Whatever number that is…
10mm is available off the shelf. Even BassPro and Cabellas carry it. At least in Louisiana. It’s really easy to get online. Although it is more expensive than .40 or 9mm.
…And even with that… the ball ammo is, I’d not be surprised to find, loaded like a 40 S&W anyway.
180gr 1040fps
180gr 1150fps, 2 different brands
180gr 1200fps
Those are the factory load FMJs I’ve shot in mine. Not what I would consider “hot” but not typical .40 loads either. Although there are .40 loads out there that meet and exceed anything I’ve listed they would be considered on the “hot” end of things for .40. That 1200 fps is store bought at BassPro and Cabelas. The rest is stuff I’ve ordered online.
Consider that self defense ammo I use is more like 175gr 1290fps or 180gr 1350fps. I would imagine that’s way past anything .40 sw could do.
I sure hope they offer it in a 5 inch barrel so that muzzle velocities will be equivalent to a revolver with a 4 inch barrel*. Magnum level cartridges out of barrels shorter than 4 inches don’t make a whole lot of sense to me unless you like really LOUD noise makers.
* The chamber is part of the barrel on a semi-auto pistol and the 10 mm cartridge is about 1 inch long. Thus a semi-auto pistol with a 5 inch barrel only has about 4 inches of barrel for expanding gases to accelerate the bullet.
The post says 3 models will be offered and 2 will have 5″ barrels.
Apparently the two long slide variants will fit the bill.
The same phenomenon exists with the G29 vs. the G20. You get that subcompact, shove a 10mm in it, you either get a fireball the size of your living room and rattle all the window panes in the neighborhood, or you avoid all this by using such a light load it might as well be a .40 S&W anyway.
I’ve shot my G20 next to my dad shooting his G29. And the other way around. G29 isn’t really much different in sound/shock. 10mm is a bit of a cannon. But G29 isn’t problematic at all in my experience.
Were you shooting full house 10s or basically .40S&W loads in a longer case?
Most off the shelf stuff is considerably reduced in power. (If you were shooting reloads, then a light load might give the same results.)
Edit: for reasons that I do not understand, posts appear on the home page without a link to expand the article. The only option that I see is to read about two lines of text or click on the comments bubble. For this article, I clicked on the comments bubble and wasn’t able to see a complete article, only comments … unless I scrolled up which I did not expect to have to do.
Anyhow, I see that they are offering 5 inch barrels which I believe is the right call.
I seem to recall a bunch of somewhat affordable 10mm FMJ at Cabelas last year during the great ammo shortage. That & 40cal. If I get rich(again-sigh) I’d love 10mm. No exotic stuff until then…
So this will release sometime in 2019-2020? Sorry Sig USA, you guy’s have lost all benefit of the doubt with your release dates. First a bunch 556xi’s get release and have to be fixed, then you’ve taken almost 3 years to put the MPX out and I’m still skeptical that I’ll see mine before this year is out.
Also Bruce Gray has been doing 10mm ST conversions for a while now. Granted they were expensive, but it was an all hand fitted gun.
Expensive? They are ridiculous. For two grand you could buy a Glock 20, a Colt Delta Elite AND an EAA Witness polymer 10mm. Or a Glock 20 and about 1000 rounds of Federal’s new 180 gr JSP Trophy Bonded 10mm.
You have to really, really love both SIGs and 10mm to want to buy into that. I really like SIGs and I really like 10mm, but yikes. No thanks.
I’d counter that none of those are hand fitted guns. Look at what a Nighthawk or Wilson costs, craftsmen labor isn’t cheap. There is a distinct difference between the standard Sig guns and the master shop guns both in price and in performance. These mass produced 10mm will never be up to the same standards as a custom job, but they will be cheaper and if that gets more people into 10mm than I guess that’s good for all.
I’m waiting for someone to field a gun that will be chambered in .45 WinMag again – the first (and only one so far as I know) was the LAR Grizzly 1911 on steroids.
I’m pretty sure I’m going to be waiting a long, long time.
I think the AutoMag IV was a 45 Win Mag.
The Wildey was in that chambering. That be the same gun used by Dirty Harry when he went to a semi-auto. It gave us the .44automag and a couple of others too IIRC.
Here’s a brief on the current 10mm offerings.
Glock 20-Reliable, and the same manual of arms as other Glock pistols. Is afflicted with a grip wider then the LA phone book.
Kimber Eclipse 10mm: A pretty, ergonomic option with good fit and finish . The only major downside is its Federal Contract cost.
Colt Delta Elite:another 1911 option that’s pretty and ergonomic, as long as the user is satisfied with GI spec sights and grip safety. An unlikely occurance at its elevated street price.
EAA/Tanfoglio Witness: probably the best option even considering this Sig . Elite models can be had for $650 , feature adjustable sights and hand fitted slide and frame, and require only a $15 recoil spring for optimum function. Magazines are plentiful and affordable, and the CZ grip design means one need not be genetically related to Attila the Hun to shoot it well.Coincidentally it is the model I enjoy today.
Don’t the Tanfoglio’s have issues with frames cracking?
I believe at one point they had a problem with cracking on the rounded slides.
I have small hands and handle the G20 just fine. I found the Internet hand-wringing over grip size to be overwrought. YMMV.
You forgot the Para Ordnance LS Hunter 6 inch barrel and 9 round 10mm
That looks a lot like my Arcus 94.
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY.
there are still S&W 3rd gen model 1076 available. . . . . .
Oh, they can do 10mm but they can’t do 7.62×25 in spite of Norinco making a Sig clone in 7.62×25.
What’s the nomenclature/model number on the Norinco clone?
Sorry for late reply but it is P762.
You can also search for Dominion Arms NP22 P762, that will give you a lot of info.
I would really like to see a ttag article on the witness.
Lots of rumors about cracked frames at various times of production. It would be nice to get the factory comment on which versions had the issue, and if it has been resolved.
IMHO. No purpose having a 10mm unless you can shoot full power ammo. (Defined by saami specs?)
Thanks guys, release this after SSE goes adios in California-no damn way we’re getting them otherwise. I give you three Bronx cheers for that. Great idea all around though, particularly using the stainless frames, those are some of the best shooting SIG’s in any caliber, IMHO.
I’ll be saving up.
Tempting. But too bad 10mm doesn’t suppress very well.
I will take one if they don’t make it look like a pimp gun or cover it in diamond plate.
Ahhhh……..10mm. It’s an attractive round, to be sure, but not quite my thing. Don’t get me wrong, I do love the limited selection of firearms in the caliber, as well as the spotty availability of retailers who even carry the ammo, but overall, 10mm ammunition just isn’t exorbitantly expensive enough for me. Pass.
love SIG’s but haven’t found a reason to own one outside of my 226. Awesome!
If Sig puts a properly supported, ramped barrel in it, this could be interesting.
If the chamber is not fully supported, they shouldn’t even bother. Too many companies are willing to build guns with poorly supported chambers for this high-pressure round (Colt, I’m thinking of you!). It’s not safe when using reloads.
Until they come out with one I guess I have to buy a Glock G29 Gen 4 with a pinky extension. The only real reason for my owning one besides loving the 10mm cartridge is that I need a carry pistol for when I am bow hunting in the mountains. The lighter the better and my S&W Governor is just to heavy and bulking while in a hip holster.
Block? no …
what is actually new? barrel? same P220 as 20 years ago …
STI Nitro for another manufacturer…a step up from a Kimber…a large step.
If you want a Sig with more POP, try one in .357sig flavor. My P-226 Classic has Xchange kits in .22,.9mm, and .357 sig. The hottest round is still a pleasure to shoot and very controllable.
.357 sig ammo is available and not too hard to reload.
If that’s not enough to take care of a threat, you may need to find an RPG.
Does anyone make a 10 mm in a sig sauer 550 style weapon ????
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