Here’s something we didn’t see coming. Smith & Wesson’s latest addition to their popular M&P line is chambered in .22 WMR. It’s a full-size pistol with a 5-inch barrel, internally hammer-fired, fiber optic sights, and yes, it’s optic-ready. It also hold thirty — that’s 30 — plus one rounds. It’s a shame the barrel isn’t threaded, but we’d guess that option is coming.
Here’s their press release and some specs . . .
Smith & Wesson Brands, Inc., a leader in firearm manufacturing and design, today announces the release of the new M&P22 MAGNUM pistol, chambered in 22 WMR.
This latest addition to the M&P series is all about bringing more. More capacity, more reliability, and more features. Its internal hammer-fired design, paired with the TEMPO gas-operated barrel system, keeps components locked in place until the bullet passes the gas port, increasing performance. With a staggering 30-round capacity, the full-size polymer frame M&P22 MAGNUM ships with two magazines so you can spend less time reloading and more time training. It comes with a fiber optic front sight, black notched rear sight, and is optics-ready, allowing you to direct-mount most of the popular micro red dots available today.
“The M&P22 MAGNUM combines the best features of our internal hammer fire control system with the patented TEMPO barrel design, creating a smooth operating experience for the shooter. The 22 WMR is a versatile and field-savvy cartridge that has been a legacy among American shooters, hunters, and trappers for decades. Smith & Wesson is proud to offer a new pistol that further supports the use of this cartridge outdoors or on the range,” said John Myles, Senior Manager of New Products.
The M&P22 MAGNUM is fully ambidextrous, has a 4.35-inch stainless steel barrel with Armornite finish, includes a flat-face trigger, and Picatinny-style rail for mounting accessories. This pistol is proudly made in the U.S.A. and has an MSRP of $579.00.
600.00 DOLLARS ?!?!? Just a little pricey….. Get it below 5 hundred and I’ll get in line…
An MSRP of $579 means that the real world price will be under $500. If the reliability it there, this should be a pretty sweet pistol. I’d consider it more of a defensive pistol for the recoil averse than a field gun, but it would work great for that too.
I trust M&P to be morre reliable than KelTec
Wholesale cost to Dealers is $500, so retail will be in the $559 to $579 area.
Try the Walther WMP
Wow, Kel-tec must be thinking imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Smith imitated the KSG too.
Kel-tec is a great R&D firm. Not so much on production.
Ok not bad for a joke screen name and agreed on the assessment.
S&W also kinda copied (and improved)the Sub2K with their folding PCC. Ruger has also copied (and improved ) KelTec quite a bit (LCP/P3AT, and LC9/PF9).
the KT P17 is simply awesome: 15 rounds and comes with three mags…
oh, and found in the wild for less than $199
Looks like a duck…walks like a duck etc…
I’m guessing with a MSRP of $579, it’ll sell for under $500.
No threaded barrel? Someone needs to be fired.
“No threaded barrel?”
It’s WinMag, it’s supersonic anyways.
At a bit over 22 cents per round, 9mm is nearly as expensive… 🙁
*Trump voice*
“It’s like really, really loud, okay?”
It looks like another useless gun that I wouldn’t mind having for some reason.
Amen Dude!
I’d like one (but alas…California…sigh). Not for EDC, of course, but certainly for fun. But even it it’s someone’s only gun, it might not be a .45 ACP, but with 31 rds of .22 Mag it can let the defender unleash a hornet’s nest of lead.
And I’ll take an S&W over a Kel-Tec any day. And .22 Mag over 5.7×28.
I was liking what I was seeing until I went to the S&W website for a closer look. They cheap-shitted out on the molded PLASTIC magazines… a swing and a miss in my book, as the 22WMR is a finicky round to feed through metal mags. Jacketed bullets and stiff (assumed, due to 30 round capacity) mag springs will cause problems after a short time. C’mon, it would have cost another ten bucks to do it right ?
Well first my thoughts were noisy problem child but not so much after a decent range review…
https://youtu.be/A0bUkIciQ5M
Since it is a full size pistol I would like to have seen a slightly longer bbl and sleeve like on the S&W 5.7 because silencers are a thing whose time has come. I think we will see the NFA hold over silencers go away within the next five or six years.
S&W, Ruger: Hey nerd, show us your homework.
KelTec: Okay, but change yours a bit so nobody notices.
Pew Community: (standing behind them) Boys, what are we doing? Really? Again?
I agree with the above people, S&W must have run out of ideas so they’re cribbing Keltec. This the KSG and the sub2k. What’s next?
P32 would be neat
Back in 2019, Ruger filed for a trademark on the term “SR32”. As of 2022, it was considered abandoned as it was never used. A quick internet search will bring up the history.
Pity that
+100
The P32 is my summer time carry. Shorts and a T-shirt. And a kelTec P32 at just 7oz. FMJ ammo only. Mine is 11oz with the laser site plus ammo.
Divorcing the amazing RDB action from Kel-Tec’s airsoftish “clamshell plastic + twice as many fasteners as a Glock has parts” construction method would be most welcome. Bonus points if they arranged the recoil system and receiver to be SBRable.
Anyone have any ideas how “the TEMPO gas-operated barrel system, keeps components locked in place until the bullet passes the gas port”? On their 5.7, rotating lugs lock barrel and slide until actuated by the gas action. In reviews of the .22Mag, it doesn’t appear to have any lugs, and the barrel looks like it floats freely inside its sleeve.
its more like gas assisted blow-back in this model. helps deal with the heavy slide, which might have a heavy optic on it too.
similar to how the 5.7 one works, but no rotating lock. just blowback.
I did wonder about that, but the quote (right from OEM) essentially says the opposite. Also, why would WMR require a gas boost when many LRs (with much less recoil) have no problem cycling with pure blowback (not that they’re paragons of reliability, but that’s due to rims and blunt lead bullets; blowback just needs the right recoiling mass).
Sad to see them finally bring this concept to market; as I’ve wanted something like this for many years Have the PMR30 and the Rock XT22. What’s the sad part? My back asswards state has banned sale of any firearm with more than 1o round capacity; and it has yet to be repealed As it stands, you cannot buy anything over 10 rounds in what used to be a GREAT STATE. Not quite sure how they haven’t realized that they are infringing on our right? What state you ask: WA WA WA
What’s your thoughts on & how well do you like your Rock XT22?
Only real problem is that it’s U-G-L-Y.
Or could be a lot prettier. No thx
22WMR? S&W should make it 22lr, keep the mag capacity, lower the price and add a threaded barrel.
I like the idea of a full-size semi-auto handgun chambered in .22 WMR (with 30-round magazines) as the IDEAL handgun (arguably) for self-defense in a societal collapse scenario.
I like .22 WMR because it has about 65% greater muzzle velocity than .22 LR and yet cartridges are still relatively light weight which allows you to carry a much greater amount of ammunition for a given weight. Add the fact that you can shoot 30 times before having to reload and you have a formidable self-defense platform.
I would love to see a centerfire straightwall .22, which would have all the advantages (except maybe cost) and none of the drawbacks of the rimfires.
That’s why Browning designed the .25 acp. At that time the smallest center fire pistol cartridge he could wangle was the .25. He wanted it as an alternative to rimfire rounds especially since the new fangled semi autos were making a splash.
With our new tech who knows? Maybe a rimless center fire .22 is possible? Would be interesting to see someone try.
Right, Browning designed .25ACP to replicate .22LR ballistics, but those suck even without its reliability issues.
Sorry, I failed to explain the complete thought. I meant a cartridge designed around the standard centerfire-pistol design envelope, 9mm- or .45/10mm-OAL, 35-40Kpsi. Sort of a hybrid between .30 Super Carry and 5.7×28. I think it could excel for EDC, and might be the ideal light-PDW / machine pistol cartridge:
-Ability to fully double-stack (~25rds?) in roughly single-stack 1911 mag width
-CMR-30 / CP-33 quadstack capacity, slightly narrower, slightly higher capacity, and much more reliable without the rims
-Roughly .380 KE with even less recoil, offering ~G19-G17 capacity in a (slimmer) P365 size without micro-9 kick.
-Light recoil spring / c0cking effort
-Ability to use simple, cheap, reliable blowback in a service-size pistol with a reasonably light, trim, soft-recoiling slide
-Likely effective, with the right projectiles, against light body armor
Might need a new smaller primer and/or steel case heads (shellshok concept) depending on how much pressure you plan on putting in the cartridge. 25acp was already fighting for space in case vs primer and depending on how you want to shape and charge the case 22 could be a fine line of easy enough and additional redesign recommended
You may well be right about the primer (I’ve never reloaded something that small), but in that case I’d opt for a slight bottleneck instead. .25 base diameter (not the diameter of its semi-rim) is the same as .22LR rim diameter, so the sacrifice in capacity would be slight.
I’m unfamiliar with shellshok. Why would you need a steel case head for a cartridge in the pressure ballpark of other modern centerfire pistol cartridges? .30SC and 5.7 are 10Kpsi higher, and still use brass.
Need is likely not there unless something stupid is attempted (ultra velocity defense rounds) and at that point may as well go bottleneck and a case length around 20-24mm. For cheaper I would think a taper like 9mm keeping the case as simple as possible for lower costs.
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!
“I meant a cartridge designed around the standard centerfire-pistol design envelope, 9mm- or .45/10mm-OAL, 35-40Kpsi.”
Nice idea, but problematic to implement.
Notice how many 9mm 1911s there are out there? And how difficult it is to get them to run reliably? Scaling a gun down creates *problems*…
1911s’ turn-of-the-centuryisms make them challenging to run reliably in any caliber. Also, rechambering a blowback tends to be more straightforward than a locking (or especially a delaying) action.
ummm…
sounds like you want something that feeds tok.
possum likes the 33, me likey the 52.
I do prefer the light-fast end of the cartridge spectrum, and think Tok is probably close to the optimum for its main role in WW2 (flattest-shooting, most controllable cartridge from a plain, cheap blowback SMG).
In a defensive pistol, though, light-fast cartridges achieved dominance through high-cap mags and energy-delivering JHPs. Tok offers neither of those advantages.
They did make what you want JWM…. thirty years ago. Was called 22 Spitfire, IIRC it was a full length or slightly shortened 30 Carbine necked down for . 222 Hornet bullets, I think they were probably no longer than the present day 5.7 x28, so should be able to go into a pistol magazine of like size. And they didn’t have the setback problems of the 22 Jetfire (Jet ?)
Right, but just like 5.7, that’s .357Mag OAL (1/2″ longer than 9mm!).
Umm,
You bring up a good point. I forgot that rimfire cartridges are not as reliable as centerfire cartridges which would be ultra-critical in a self-defense situation.
I wonder what the smallest easy-to-manufacture straight-wall centerfire cartridge would be? Anything on par with .22 WMR would be wonderful (meaning propelling a 40 grain bullet at something like 1300 feet-per-second out of a 5-inch barrel and 2000 feet-per-second out of a 16-inch rifle barrel). Some potential examples of caliber and bullet weight (to mimic the sectional density of a .22 caliber 40 grain rimfire bullet): .23 caliber and a 44 grain bullet or .24 caliber and a 48 grain bullet.
.25acp for smallest reliable center-fire that I can think of and could lengthen the case to get extra case capacity and try to figure out pressure for best velocity to mass of projectile vs size of viable pistol. Or 25 skinny carry for silliness.
On second thought case head strength may be an issue so might need thicker brass there.
Thanks! I was thinking along similar lines in my response to JWM above, which I posted before seeing your reply
Interesting topic and lots of area to cover so no worries if it overlaps.
In the meantime, there’s 5.7×28. It’d be more popular with less expensive ammo.
Dude,
Right, and not-.357Mag-depth magazines / grips.
LOL Dude the moment I see 5.7 brought out as the reasonably priced sensible alternative I realized that any redesign based on the 25acp case would be obscure tinkering struggling to be a wildcat and that your statement is increasingly the case in reality. Probably would be good for bullet design improvements if there were multiple popular options in 22 center-fire but too much else going on elsewhere.
Umm while I fear the lengthened 22 with the mid length case idea would mostly be outcompeted by 5.7 I could see it being the 380 to it’s 9mm and the idea of cheap easy (comparatively) to reload 22s suitable for cc and smg use does have appeal. I don’t know if it would have the velocity for ap with civilian legal copper solids (probably lv2 maybe 3a kevlar but likely not uhmwpe/dyneema) but I will say it is an interesting nich that I never considered.
It’s not my original idea, but I’ve been fleshing it out ever since I saw it proposed (TFB, maybe?). I think .22TCM is better in most respects, but I love the idea of the otherwise-amazing CP33 mags without their sole drawback of rimlock; more efficient short-barrel combustion from a straightwall case, as well as the amenability of a slightly milder case to simple blowback.
Making a 22tcm variant from a 38 super, 10mm or 45acp would be one idea for silliness but you may be able to get close with the elongated 25acp case depending on what the upper limit of round length re grip size and composition (can make thinner magazines and magwells for more cartridge space from steel than polymer) you are looking to do. As much as it is overlooked at the moment 30sc was a great idea of removing the rim of a 32acp and allowing more space for powder. But can only chose so many features before you run out of space, power, or simplicity.
neck down .327?
.22TCM is effectively .22/.38Super even though that isn’t the parent case. .22/10mm (.224BOZ) already exists; I’m not sure if there’s a .45 equivalent, but it would probably be equal or lesser than .224BOZ because of lower pressure.
I am split on .30SC. The engineer / maker in me likes the approach of taking advantage of the strengths of modern actions and materials to cram 9mm performance into a smaller cartridge. OTOH, everything is a tradeoff until it isn’t. 9mm ubiquity (I can’t think of anything comparable in any industry except ICE cars) is such an overwhelming advantage that a new competitor would require a comparable offsetting advantage, and an extra round or two (in a market where even tiny 9s offer double-digit capacity) doesn’t meet that threshold.
tsbhoa,
Possible, but rimmed, and really long.
Umm, 224BOZ was one I never heard of and if the difference between 10 and 9mm parent case variants was 100fps the it would seem 22tcm may be around the optimum bottle neck version of shorter larger case lengths so reinventing the wheel unless going for ludicrous speed (thanks for the mention neat to read about). As to upending the 9mm domination a change in full auto and/or sbr laws would make it far easier but barring that improvements in design metallurgy and powder optimization is about the best I can think of (so functionally stuck for a bit)
Curious what you mean about an NFA change making it easier to upend 9mm domination.
I do agree it’s an obstacle to progress, even for people who are legally exempt – specifically, perpetuating the rifle/pistol false dichotomy. Wherever concealment is not a factor, many (most?) people would be better off with a PDW-class weapon.
NFA keeps the pdw concept for civilians at a crippled retard state for what is readily available to buy without stamp collecting. If that was not the case the incentive for high capacity low recoil rounds goes up.
Not only does NFA limit private owners [by design], it also stunts PDW development that could have equipped millions of servicemembers and police (who were never intended to fall under its purview) with better weapons.
Thank you for the explanation! I don’t necessarily see easier access to SBR PDWs driving that demand (all else being equal, both recoil and capacity matter less in a weapon you can shoulder-fire), but ability to make MGs again certainly could. Unfortunately, I think that’s among the highest of high-hanging fruit.
Full auto will likely be the last to go but sbr and suppressor availability/demand/development could very well put pdw’s in homes like ar15’s if not shotguns. And I did forget to mention suppressor in that list as well as shoulder fired lighweight low recoil and hearing safe would be appealing to a large plurality of home defense inclined.
I agree that a change to SBR laws or interpretations would put PDWs in homes; I’m just not sure that would drive demand for lower-recoiling cartridges.
9mm would likely dominate initially but I could see the push for lighter firearms (female shooters, elderly, injured etc) who want more than a pistol but less than a mp5/scorpion in weight. If it was a simple straight walled slight taper that was lower pressure a much lighter firearm could be produced that would be more reliable than 22. Not sure if it would unseat 9mm but I could see it dominating the niche over time and driving further innovation. But I am an oddball optimist.
“more than a pistol but less than a mp5/scorpion in weight.”
That’s part of the NFA-induced false dichotomy I mentioned earlier. My latest PDW (based on a heavy steel-frame pistol) is about half the weight of an MP5. A stocked P320 or Glock would weigh about 1/3 of an MP5. Some people find P365s snappy, but few adults have a problem with P320 recoil – even less so if they could brace it against the mass of an entire body instead of just their hands.
I guess where it could really shine, though, would be as a cheap blowback – Hi Point meets MAC with a centerfire CP33 mag could be sweet AND cheap👍
+1 love my keltec
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True, but don’t let that distract you from the fact that Al Bundy once scored 4 touchdowns in a game for Polk High.
Damn S&W! I was just thinking about reducing my ‘arsenal’ and how there was nothing out there that I wanted to add to it. Oh well, I’ll be waiting on field reviews and if it looks geed I’ll have to get one…or 2 or 3. My grand daughters may like it so much that i lose them.
Looks like a blast.
If you want a semiauto in .22 magnum … get a 5.7
Rimfire in a semi-auto absolutely sucks.
S&W market research must have shown them that keltec 22 mag guns are selling quite well. They would not have invested their own R and D if it was just a black hole.
KelTec sells millions of guns a year. And Remington is gone now. kelTec is not going anywhere. And I love my SU16c.
I wonder whether suppressor use would need a longer/threaded -shroud-? -or- will this shrouded barrel work satisfactorily with a can weighting it down inside that shroud?
S&W lists the barrel as 4.35″, not 5″ as the review states.
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