“A special agent with the Social Security Administration is suing the makers of his gun holster and 9 mm gun, alleging their defective design led the gun to fire into his thigh while he was trying to clip the holster to his belt.” Before we discuss the allegations, maybe someone can tell us why the Social security administration needs its own coterie of armed special agents.
Never mind. Moving on…
In a lawsuit filed Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Omaha, Shane Taylor sued Barsony Holsters and Belts LLC and Smith and Wesson.
We couldn’t locate the actual suit in a search of US District Court files, which you would think describes the specific pistol and holster involved, so we have to rely on two sketchy media reports to figure out what Agent Shane Taylor (not pictured above) alleges:
First, from journalstar.com:
(Attorney Thomas) White said Taylor was preparing to be tested on his backup weapon, a 9 mm Smith & Wesson. He took the gun out of its holster, took the safety off, chambered a round and put it back in the holster. But, as he tried to clip the holster to the waistband belt with his hand on the butt of the holstered firearm, the gun discharged, the attorney said.
He said Smith & Wesson had represented that the compact model gun Taylor owned could be safely inserted into a waistband when holstered in this holster from Barsony Holsters and Belts when it was loaded and wouldn’t engage the trigger while in it.
And from omaha.com:
Taylor said he is required to carry a firearm for work and must pass quarterly proficiency tests. On Aug. 29, 2017, he said in the lawsuit, was training at the Council Bluffs Police Department’s firing range and was supposed to practice the quick removal of a loaded backup weapon from its holster.
A 9 mm pistol “was fully seated in its holster,” Taylor said in the suit, when he attempted to insert the holster into his waistband. The gun discharged, wounding Taylor in the right thigh and causing permanent injury.
Again, just going from the admittedly light-on-detail media reports, we’d guess Agent Taylor was probably packing a Smith & Wesson M&P9 SHIELD, the model that has a frame safety. Or maybe an M&P9 Compact. And while Barsony makes a passel of IWB holsters, he probably had his stuffed into something like this one.
We’d guess the odds of a Smith & Wesson Compact or SHIELD discharging while holstered and attempting to slip it into his drawers is virtually nil. And no matter how unlikely, we’ve read a lot of firearms manuals and have never seen anything approaching a representation that “the compact model gun Taylor owned could be safely inserted into a waistband when holstered in this holster from Barsony Holsters and Belts when it was loaded.”
In short, there seems to be more here that Agent Taylor may not be mentioning in his effort to extract some cash and repair his reputation.
What’s your take?
ND. his fault.
+1
+2
He f’ed up and is trying to cover his ass.
+3
Agreed. Smuck of the first order.
Yeah…good luck…more likely a negligent discharge…
Gus just go off. Everybody knows that.
That’s why I don’t hang out with Gus, he’s a jerk.
🤠
Gus has been Red Flagged several times (by a horde of Blue Falcons) and he still manages to go-off.
That asshole Gus still owes me 20 bucks and a bottle of Whiskey. Word also has it he is WAY behind on child support.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lxINyZxbgU
Why was the firearm in the holster while trying to clip the holster to his belt?
Failing that (and this is how I do it) why was the safety off when the firearm was not properly holstered – i.e. why was the safety off before the holster was properly secured to his belt?
It’s pretty simple, really: if you keep your carry gun in the holster when you remove the holster from your person, you engage the dang safety before you remove the holster from your person. And then you don’t disengage the dang safety until the holster is once again properly secured on your person.
Absolutely, this instance was a negligent discharge.
How could Smith and Wesson possibly be at fault? Did the firearm discharge without having the trigger mechanism engaged? The holster manufacturer? Maybe. If he can prove that the firearm discharged while properly seated in the holster. If I were on the jury, it would take some convincing to get me to buy that allegation.
“Why was the firearm in the holster while trying to clip the holster to his belt?”
My second thought exactly.
My first thought was why does the Social Security Administration need an armed police force?
The guy is obviously trying to avoid punitive action by his agency for an obvious ND by trying to blame his equipment. Our local indoor range has 5 bullet holes in the lobby floor. Four were from LEOs who thought they knew what they were doing. As the saying goes, ‘It’s a poor craftsman who blames his tools.’
Not sure about the rest of your post, but why does a carry pistol need a safety in the first place? My primary (Sig 365) and jogging pistols (G 43 and S&W 638) do not have manual safeties: the safety is ME.
There appears to be a natural tendency among most people who do not handle firearms often, as well as more than a few who do, to automatically place their finger on the trigger as they handle a firearm. Obviously, and I say obviously, as there’s no way even a $50 Jennings .25 auto will go BANG on its own, the trigger must somehow be manipulated by the handler. The cheaper the gun, usually the more effort it takes to cook off the round. Said highly-trained agent obviously had his finger on the trigger when he was either reinserting the pistol in the holster or as he was reclipping the holster, one or the other, or both. In daily handling it’s simple to see how easy it can happen, particularly if one is more concerned about his/her/its “weapon test” than the safe handling in the first place. Wonder what his “test grade” was? Suppose supervisor is waiting on the lawsuit results…
25 years ago I had one of those kid’s cap snubby revolvers that shot the red plastic caps clipped together in a circle. Loud little buggers and I’d shoot it out the back door at my farm house to call the dogs in. It was always laying on the counter at the house. Suburban kid who came in for trumpet lessons picked it up one day as he came through the kitchen and wouldn’t you know it- loud BANG. Scared the hell out of him and my wife. With that little POS you really had to want to pull (not squeeze) off a round. Kid learned more than music that day, hoped it stayed with him.
Why do you need a gun to send checks to old people?
So they can arrest people for social security fraud? (My local SSA office has private security guards.) Because the FBI just won’t do. Must be the same for the VA cop I saw just the other day. (Yeah, it wa a first for me.) In fact, there are a whole slew of federal agencies with LEO divisions. Personally, I don’t know why they let the ATF carry guns; it used to be that they were just a branch of the IRS without arrest authority; and given their proclivity for shooting and killing people they want to arrest for misdemeanors, maybe it is time that they are disarmed.
1. The FBI isn’t interested ina anything that isn’t terrorism or international.
2. People and companies cheat on taxes all the time. Unless you think all taxes and government is wrong, them there has to be someone to enforce laws.
3. As a non-LEO I don’t leave the house without a gun. These men and women are enforcing federal laws on people that may be facing multiple felony charges, and you think they should be unarmed? That’s nice.
Or instead of sending your local pencil pusher out with side arm why not just have him give local pd a call
Alexander, because local law enforcement isn’t required to enforce federal law. SSA armed Agents are members of the Inspector General’s office of the agency. They are charged with investigating benefits fraud. I can’t think of a time any of them have engaged in a gun battle with anyone, but when you are going to arrest someone for having effectively stolen tends of thousands of dollars (or much more in some cases), I’d certainly want more than harsh words and my fists if they decided to take exception to being arrested.
DOJ also often doesn’t prosecute benefits fraud. They’ve got busier things to do, like go after drugs and gun crimes, rather than someone who’s slurping up thousands non-violently. So what happens is a lot of times agency lawyers are deputized to DOJ as Special Assistant US Attorneys (SAUSAs). The agency lawyer is familiar with the relevant case law and statutes and they will work with a regular DOJ prosecutor for the case(s). Usually they are deputized for a year or so. So the DOJ attorney only has to put in a few hours of work per case for what they consider “minor cases”.
Many other agencies work similar. Probably some of the very small agencies put all of the load on DOJ/FBI, but most do the work “internal”. Which means armed, sworn agents. Just like the cry of why did the Social Security Administration need something like 16 million rounds of 9mm!?! ERMGERD! Stormtroopers in the streets!
No, they’ve got something like 300-400 armed agents, times probably something like 500-1000 rounds of practice per year, times probably a 10-20 year contract. Besides, let’s be honest, put 10 of the more hoplophilic members on here together and if you shook their shelves hard enough you might get that much ammo that falls from them 🙂
And for the number, well 50 states, that only works out to like 6-8 agents per state investigating fraud for a program that totals almost a trillion dollars. It is THE largest outlay in the federal government, even bigger than the defense department (by about 50%). And the administrative costs of the program is also less than (as far as I know) all other federal benefits programs (ratio of administrative costs to benefit outlays). Fraud is also roughly .9%, which is also the lowest of all federal benefit programs (Medicare/Medicade fraud is something like 5-10x higher. Though that is very low on end user fraud and way more on dirty doctors and providers)
So you’re okay with every two-bit government agency having an autonomous armed police force? Sorry, that’s clearly government overreach. Did you know that in the Washington DC metro area there are 88 ‘law enforcement’ agencies? How many different missions can there be that require that many ‘police’ forces who answer to no one but the guy signing there paycheck?
Once laws are passed to effectively steal people’s money, the government must use cages and guns to make people comply
When government fails as spectacularly as the US gov has, they had better get armed up. Considering the armed citizens they continue to dump on with increasing frequency.
You would think there would be a federal agency that would have agents to serve federal arrest warrants.
Maybe they could have a snappy name.
Line U. S. Marshals, or something like that.
Maybe there could be someone able to figure out how to make the “Notify me of follow-up comments by email” part of the comment section work, too, but probably not a federal agency.
Then again, maybe that’s what it takes.
Can’t SWAT granny without jack booted thugs.
Nearly every fed agency has an armed branch. Most have tactical units. The EPA has a BUNCH of tactical units.
The department of education has “swat”.
“He said Smith & Wesson had represented that the compact model gun Taylor owned could be safely inserted into a waistband when holstered in this holster from Barsony Holsters and Belts when it was loaded and wouldn’t engage the trigger while in it….”
Really? S&W puts out representations about which holsters are safe and not, even with other manufacturers?
I doubt it. Every gun manual I’ve read regarding a model with a safety says to USE it, up until the moment you are ready to fire.
old people need jack booting too is why he has a gun. Maybe he shouldn’t have though. If he used a holster like the one in the pic shame on him too, that’s not very form fitting and floppy looking where it could go into the trigger guard.
I’m not a LEO or expert, and he may have had a specific routine he was required to follow. But I would have done the exercise with following: remove the gun, take the safety off, chamber a round, put the safety on, and insert the gun in the holster.
Got a safety? Use it. You wanna use Jeff Cooper practices, then you better be as good as Jeff Cooper.
Only Chuck Norris is as good as Jeff Cooper
You left out the primary rule-
KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF OF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO SHOOT!
The gun fired because his finger was ON THE TRIGGER.
Why is that so difficult???
Government agent; terminal case of the dumbs. Always a winning combination.
In 2016 I spent just over a week in Oshkosh, WI for AirVenture, I stayed in the camp ground next to the airport and one on the guys there works for the TSA (if he does now I don’t know) and in past years his tent had blown away on him. So that year he used a small modified cargo trailer, but when he put in his anchoring “stakes”, the cork screw for dogs type, in the ground he put them right next to the trailer. Now normal winds aren’t going blow the trailer over but the cork screw anchors right next to the trailer aren’t going to hold the trailer down.
And you wonder why his tent blew away.
Stop my if you’ve heard this one (actually happened).
After a career with the Air Force, three Masters’s degrees, a bunch of hi-tech startups (and failures), and while holding a professional position with the central government, I decided to make some ammunition money by working part-time (weekends) for TSA. The application languished “in the system” for what seemed like too long, then I was notified (had to access the job site for results) that my application was denied because I was unqualified for a position of security and high trust (I held a Secret clearance at the time). There was no appeal process available. Guess I lost out on a valuable experience.
They have to give those positions out to a high number of foreign nationals. I guess we do that too, overseas? NO.
Did you put down that you were fired from being a greeter at a big box store? That’s what they look for.
“Did you put down that you were fired from being a greeter at a big box store? That’s what they look for.”
Wow. Hadn’t thought about that. Good idea.
He violated at least 3 of the 4 safety rules: 2 Never let the muzzle cover anything your not willing to destroy, 3 keep your stupid finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target, 4 be sure of your target and whats behind it (this includes all of your body parts)
It’s really pretty simple violate safety rules and accept the consequences.
And these are some of the people with badges that think that they are special and they ONLY should be able to carry a firearm due to their training and impeccable wisdom. Remember I said some not all.
Social Security Special Agent = Stupid, Stupid, Stupid – I leave the “A” to the reader.
So um. He failed the test, then, right?
“So um. He failed the test, then, right?”
Only if he didn’t immediately enter the Active Shooter Response mode.
You mean crouch on the ground like a craven coward and throw your gun away?
I was thinking the same thing! If you shoot yourself instead of the target, you pretty much failed at guns!
This is where the T-Rex 360 degree threat sweep comes from. Gotta do the ‘who saw that’ ass-essment
Social Security administration needs armed personnel now?
From an undated NBC article:
“…Social Security’s office of inspector general, which has about 295 agents who investigate Social Security fraud and other crimes, said Jonathan L. Lasher, the agency’s assistant IG for external relations.”
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/48898365/ns/us_news-life/t/why-does-social-security-need-bullets/
True. We had a Central American gang running a large fraud scheme using dozens of illegals. There is actually a problem with the way this is categorized too. Since fraud is put down as a white collar crime, SS fraud by gangs is being severely undercounted in the categories where it increasing belongs: gang related and illegal alien related.
Not “now.”
The SS has had armed IG agents for a long time.
There’s a ton of armed IG agents from all kinds of agencies.
Primary mission — “fraud, waste and abuse.”
Much of the time, that requires interviewing witnesses or victims in ghettos, housing projects, etc, and many suspects are prone to violence and it’s not rare to have them connected to organized crime orgs and gangs.
In the 1996 novel Unintended Consequences, the President and a retired Chief Justice of the Supreme Court are horrified when they find out which government agencies (pretty much all of them) have armed agents flying on commercial airlines with guns.
So are those IG agents investigating or perpetrating the ”fraud, waste, and abuse”???
So are IG agents perpetrating or investigating the ”fraud, waste, and abuse”??
They don’t want to lose [another?] blue-on-blue incident with the Food & Drug Administration.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/01/feds-spending-millions-to-arm-administrative-agencies-with-body-armor-cannon-launchers-firearms-and-ammo/
TTAG covered this a while back. Department of Agriculture LOL-ski:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/03/robert-farago/full-list-of-armed-federal-agencies/
Social Security is the 2nd biggest Ponzi Scheme in world history (after the Federal Reserve Central Banking system of 9:1 fractional reserve banking).
Wish we could apply the RICO Act to government entities, it’d be the biggest two RICO cases in history.
The safety and security of the Federal Government.
On a mp shield you can chamber a round with the safety on. Not sure about the compact im assuming you can. Sounds like he had his booger hook on the bang switch when he was holstering the pistol. But hey only the police have enough training to carry and own firearms.
Anyone remember, ” This is a glock 40, I’m the only one I know special enough to carry one…” Boom, shoots himself in foot…🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂
… Anyone remember, ” This is a glock 40, I’m the only one I know special enough to carry one…” Boom, shoots himself in foot…
Must be brothers-in-law. Dumbass runs in both families. Man, if I was as retarded as this guy, I’d be too embarrassed to file a lawsuit in my real name. I know you can sue a “John Doe” – can you sue AS a “John Doe”?
So much for his quarterly quals. Wreaks of dumbass sll around.
Yeeeaah….
Actually, he was probably practicing quick draws in front of a mirror after watching Taxi Driver one too many times.
You talkin’ to me?
What an ultramaroon. Time for a blanket party.
Hopefully Smith calls several experts to the stand and they inform everyone that he is a moron.
If he is not actually firing the weapon or expecting to fire it, why is he doing any kind of practice or training with a loaded weapon?
To determine whether he’s capable of performing said training correctly and safely, or whether he’s an imbecile who fucks it up and shoots himself, perhaps?
Determination made.
The question posed first is the most interesting. Why does the SSA need anyone with law enforcement powers? The claim is pure BS designed to save face and to try to pick up fast money. It’s the question of Federal power that is interesting. What other Fed units of government have police powers? About 10 years ago the Dept of Education bought quite a few Mossberg shotguns. The reason why and who in Education has them has never been revealed. The source for that story was FedBizOpps.gov. Go there and look to see who is buying what in the federal government.
“The department informed me that as I was using my own personal equipment during practice on my own time at a non-department range, I’m on my own. I had thought my plans of very early retirement dashed until a nice lawyer suggested….”
As to why the SSA needs armed LEO? Probably very valid reasons that another agency could deal with but why give up control and department pride when you can simply duplicate functions and ask the tax payer to take another hit.
My take is he’s of sub-normal intelligence. The irony is he’ll possibly qualify for SS…for covering his dumbazz.
Just to be cautious, that link shows a cheap looking holster that looks soft + flexible, not rigid. Maybe, just maybe, the material was worn + stretched enough that some of the fabric entered the trigger guard. Still user error to use a worn out crappy holster.
Bingo. Floppy holsters May have been good during the days of double action triggers and external safeties. With striker fired pistols and carrying with safety off, a rigid holster is practically necessary. In classes I have attended, students were required to have a rigid holster no matter the firearm.
I think a lot of people are missing a very big point here. What if the man had been using a striker fired pistol “that had no manual safety”. This type of accident happens “all the time” with such striker fired guns that do not have manual safties and horrific pictures on the net are often posted showing this happening. Now I am not blaming the holster manufacturer as I do not have this holster to examine to determine as to whether or not its a poor design or not.
But one thing I do know and that is if guns fell under the consumer safety commissions power no striker fired gun without a Manuel safety would ever have been allowed to be manufactured. Countless lives would have been saved including the mother last year who’s two year old pulled her pistol out of her purse while shopping and blew her head off. Something that would probably not even have happened with a revolver as the heavy double action pull would have been beyond his ability to manipulate as easily and as fast as he did with the light single action pull of his mothers unsafely designed pistol. With a light single action pull all he had to do was give a gentle tug and that is exactly what he did.
We also have multitudes of police accidentally shooting themselves and innocent people simply stopped for a mundane traffic stop get killed when the cops striker fired gun went off accidentally. New York had so many accidental discharges with Glocks they made Glock put a heavier trigger pull on the gun but it still had the short stroke single action type pull. Some Foreign countries have banned Glock from importing any of their guns without a factory installed manual safety and Glock has complied with a factory safety but never made it available as an option in the U.S. Market. They really do deserve to be sued and some day a gun savvy lawyer will burn their ass good when he wins in court.
Safety devices are designed for a reason because they do indeed save lives, such as back up safeties on lawn mowers, anti-lock breaks, shatter proof glass and manual safeties on firearms. Its interesting to note that as far back as 1911 the Military told John Browning to get a manual safety the hell on his 1911 if he wanted to sell the design to the military and ditto for the latest pistol adopted by the military the Sig 320 which can be had without one but again the military said ” get a damn manual safety on this pistol or we won’t buy it.
What if the man had been using a striker fired pistol “that had no manual safety”.
firearms with manual safeties do not have any lower negligent discharge. there have already been extensive data collection in California on this.
The elevation in ND rates they saw in departments that went to no manual safety handguns were ALL in older cohorts trained on guns with safeties. Those trained from the get go on guns with no manual safety actually had lower ND rates. This shows manual safeties are detrimental. The only people that should have them are the geezers that always had that crutch. for newer officers it adds risk.
And we know from the data in NY City that heavier trigger pulls don’t reduce ND at all, but DO decrease accuracy resulting in a huge spike in civilians hit by police stray bullets.
Massachusetts mandated heavier trigger pull for a while for police and then removed it.
this is all similar to mandatory gun safe laws, which have also been shown not – prevent any deaths either.
“Countless lives would have been saved including the mother last year who’s two year old pulled her pistol out of her purse while shopping and blew her head off. “
Shield with manual safety. In fact the existence of a manual safety on that gun may have made that mom more lax about control of her firearm. Thanks for playing.
why not go back to your claim that the biggest school shooting was with AR when in fact it was with pistol at Va-Tech. Your continual uniformed BS makes you look foolish.
by the way in 25 years we have gone from 300 million guns int eh US, most not semi auto, to 425 million the vast majority semi auot, the most popular the striker glock with no manual safety — and lethal gun accident rate has gone DOWN, and gun murder rate plunged almost 60%.
As we know from studies Baltimore. Md, in NJ and other jurisdictions over 90% of murder, including murder of children is by prior criminals. If you want “safety” how about a ban on letting persons with criminal histories be domiciled in homes with kids? By the way, it isn’t just murder — the vast majority of fatal gun accidents involving kids are illegal guns owned by criminals. Typically boyfriend of the mother dealing drugs out of the place or nodding off with his gat loaded. he doesn’t care about any law.
Oh and one of the highest child suicide rates in the US is in Hawaii, with the strongest gun laws, and mandatory safe law
To Touched in the The Head TT
Quote————————-by the way in 25 years we have gone from 300 million guns int eh US, most not semi auto, to 425 million the vast majority semi auot, the most popular the striker glock with no manual safety — and lethal gun accident rate has gone DOWN, and gun murder rate plunged almost 60%.
As we know from studies Baltimore. Md, in NJ and other jurisdictions over 90% of murder, including murder of children is by prior criminals. Shield with manual safety. In fact the existence of a manual safety on that gun may have made that mom more lax about control of her firearm. Thanks for playing —————————————–quote
Just because gun accident rate has gone down saying that we should not have saved more lives by mandating safer made weapons is about as asinine and non nonsensical as saying that if traffic deaths went down a few thousand then all the other people that got killed in traffic accidents is ok and nothing to worry about. Really can you be than stupid (obviously you are) or are you just plain nuts?
And trying to insinuate that the mother who was killed would have been better off with a gun without a manual safety (even though she did not use it) proves you missed the point altogether and that was she was killed because when her child grabbed the gun there was no safety on in operation. Really can you be that much of an idiot (obviously you are or you would have thought through your ridiculous answer before making a complete fool of yourself.
Give up Jethro your out of your league.
nice string of irrelevent ad hominems, cisco.
it’s a cover for your mediocre arguments.
Cisco, I own a striker fired pistol and use it as my every day carry. (And just to be clear, I go into places like Walmart and grocery stores with it where there are little kids and Moms around too) I’ll do a test to prove you are full of shit.
Wait for it………
Ok I just drew and reholstered my striker fired pistol 10 times here in my house with MY FINGER ON THE TRIGGER and it didn’t go off. And there’s a reason why it didn’t and it has NOTHING to do with THE GUN.
But it does prove you are an uninformed ass.
Just because gun accident rate has gone down
It has gone down as proportion of semi autos with no safety has gone UP.
if traffic deaths went down a few thousand
You are such a uneducated fool:
https://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-31-at-Saturday-January-31-7.38-PM-1.png
https://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-31-at-Saturday-January-31-7.40-PM-2.png
And trying to insinuate that the mother who was killed would have been better off with a gun without a manual safety
You gave an example of a firearm you claimed had no manual safety. You were wrong. Your anecdote was wrong and you are also wrong on the overall data. Again the LASD study shows people trained on manual safeties are the most accident prone.
I am charmed by your desperate ad hominems.
To TT Touched in the Head
quote————————————————-Oh and one of the highest child suicide rates in the US is in Hawaii, with the strongest gun laws, and mandatory safe law———————–quote
Ha, Ha caught you in another bold face lie. The majority of suicides by children in Hawaii was by suffocation not guns so your bold face lie about safe storage having no effect on child deaths is as usual just more of your lies and bullshit.
Give up Jethro your out of your league.
https://health.hawaii.gov/injuryprevention/files/2013/09/suicide_Data-Summary0812a.pdf
What lie? You are the only liar here. I wrote: “Oh and one of the highest child suicide rates in the US is in Hawaii, with the strongest gun laws, and mandatory safe law”
Your citation completely supports what I wrote.
Your claim appears to be that gun suicide is the only type of suicide. That is another deeply ignorant assertion on your part.
cisco…….A typical liberal response…….. arguing the unprovable, that if only such and such had been done,the outcome would have been different. If only the gun had had a safety, if only the government had supplied a larger stimulus, if only there was more welfare….. get the F** out a here!
To TT Touched in the head
Sorry your not going to lie your way out of this one. Now I am going to burn your ass. You were stating that “safe storage laws” were of no use because Hawaii had the highest youth suicide rate in the U.S. True, it does, but suicide is a deliberate act and an accidental child shooting because of untended loaded guns is another subject altogether. Now I realize this subject is way to complicated for your Neanderthal mind but even mentally challenged persons know the difference between the two societal problems.
Next time you run off at the mouth think things through first instead of making a complete Moron of yourself.
You are wrong on every assertion.
NYC has very heavy triggers and one of the highest bad shooting rates in the US.
https://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/new-york-empire-state-shooting/index.html
The evidence is that heavier triggers cause inaccuracy and more innocent bystanders hit. The is why NY State police, after looking into adopting the NY City police 11lb trigger decided not to. There have been several exposes on how NYPD had to relax accuracy scores after adopting that trigger.
Manual safeties on firearms are being increasing dropped by police departments. Many bid solicitations specify the gun must have no external manual safety.
In DC, where I teach, the police department, like the FBI, forbid duty firearms, as well as any off duty use firearms, from having an external manual safety or a greater than 8lb trigger pull weight because of the danger those debunked “safety” measure are known and established to have.
To Diogenes (by the way your moniker does not belie your intelligence level)
Massad Ayoob who has been a police safety instructor for years and who has studied the problem of accidental police shootings of themselves and innocent civilians has found that when cops were given auto’s with heavy 12 lb trigger pulls and with a long stroke revolver type pulls the accidental shootings were cut 90 per cent and also that included shooting innocent bystanders thereby totally refuting your claims.
The real truth is that shootings take place at very close ranges and the average cop is such a terrible untrained shot that when the range increases even if he is shooting a single action auto the chances of his shooting someone else rises dramatically and again this is often a rare occurrence when cops start shooting at ranges over a few feet.
The single action pre-loaded striker fired gun with no manual safety has proven to be the most unsafe design ever invented for auto pistols. In case after case after case cops who got out of their vehicles or were seen running down a street had their fingers on the trigger and disaster often followed. The hard heavy double action pull auto with or without a safety was proven to be the better weapon for police use hands down as history has proven it with way less accidental shootings. If a long range shot does require use then the cop can cock back the gun into single action mode giving the double action/single action gun the best of both worlds for the average cop and making for a way more safer gun to handle and shoot without the plethora of accidental shootings and wholesale death the single action safety-less auto is known for causing. This is actual history and cannot be refuted as the facts are there for all to see.
Here are just a few tragic examples.
Two summers ago one cop got out of his car on a mundane traffic stop and his single action Glock went off striking a passenger in the car that he stopped.
A cope was chasing a girl across a field who was an unarmed teenager and drunk. His Glock trigger caught on some brush and it went off striking the girl in the head and killing her.
A Chicago cop came home and was undressing and threw down his Glock for only a split second to be snatched up by his 4 year old daughter who tripped off the trigger and shot her self in the head killing her.
Now I could go on and on about all of the lives lost that were lost because of these weapon that never should have been allowed on the market without a manual safety but any sane person can see how very dangerous they are to handle as its exactly like walking around with a revolver with the hammer cocked back but people cannot see that a Glock is actually cocked and ready to fire as compared to a revolver with a visible hammer cocked back , as there they can see and understand the danger. It does not get any more simple than that.
And by the way your misleading people about the New York Trigger. It was indeed adopted in the 8lb class and it failed to stop accidental shootings because of its short stroke single action pull. The reasoning for wanting to go to the 11 lb trigger is because that is exactly what was once used in double action revolvers and the cops were taught to shoot them in double action mode. So your wild theory that a 11lb trigger would have caused wholesale accidental shootings has already been totally disproved by over 100 years of actual police use. Now don’t you feel foolish.
Obviously, Special Agent Shane Taylor was well-trained by DEA Agent Lee Paige.
Oh, well, it could have been worse.
http://www.kark.com/news/local-news/man-accidentally-shoots-himself-in-testicle-in-lr-hotel/686327753
Good old Lee, he still blames DEA and fellow agents for “ruining” his career.
Another FED agency that Doesn’t need Firearms….I could see it if they were actually going after “criminal illegal aliens”. But we know that doesn’t happen…Because the USA would be devoid of any ILLEGALs !
I think this explains the Liberal Pathogen…..
https://youtu.be/KVyOE4vaU30
We absolutely don’t need Federal domestic agencies deploying armed agents within the United States.
As they say….. drain the swamp. Now is the time; lots of retirements….don’t fill the jobs.
The list of armed federal agencies can be found here:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/03/robert-farago/full-list-of-armed-federal-agencies/
If a gun discharges at any time other than when you’re pulling the trigger, it’s an ND.
Re-holstering an IWB holster is a huge no-no!! They are not meant for that!! They are just for the convenience of concealment and to draw out, but never to re-holster while they are in the waistband.
Reholstering is fine with the proper holster (Mily Sparks Summer Special or Alessi’s. APX), but big no no with cheap flimsy holsters.
If you IWB with a good kydex type holster, then re-holstering is perfectly fine. Provided that your garment, and gut if applicable, don’t cause a problem. If its too big of a problem, or worry for you, only wear a single clip kydex holster, and remove it, insert pistol, then re-insert into your pants.
I wear mostly a dual clip, so that isn’t as practical, but still applies. If I ever need to pull my gun in public, its to use it, then I’ll deal with the re-holstering problem. I see far too many people dicking around with their concealed pistols than they should, that’s the biggest safety problem I see.
well, there is a reason why the Israeli army go with an empty chamber. less chance the “dum dum patrol” will shoot themselves while holstering.
buy yea…nd
How many fucking govt goon squads are out there? Dangerous stuff these goon squads.
Why does the Social security administration need its own coterie of armed special goons/agents.
Some Morons shouldn’t be armed !
At the Socialist Security Office they have an armed guard at the back of the room so if any old geezer gets cranky with a bureaucrat; the armed guard can shoot the crotchety old coot in the back. Savings in payments galore!
Shot in the thigh results in a ” permanent injury” huh, only if you work for the gubment
Idiot bought the cheapest fabric holster he could and then is surprised when he manages to manipulate the trigger through the sides of the holster shooting himself in the leg. This guy doesn’t even have a Tex Grebner level of excuse for popping himself in the leg. One thing I am certain of, and that is that Smith & Wesson will demand he produce documentation where they told him that this holster was safe with their gun. With them dismissed from the suit any significant money is off the table.
Our alphabet agencies all have armed police, this is by design. They are federal LEOs with control from Washington DC, and they will do the fed’s bidding even in state matters. This is about controlling states’ rights and there are more federal police added every year.
It wouldn’t bother me that a Social Security “Special Agent” (probably like Special Ed) might carry concealed for his own protection. but having to carry as a part of his employment? That one bothers me, but there are also people in just about every Federal Govt agencies, from Education to HUD who are so instructed. Anyway, someone at the Fed should tell them to be sure to keep their finger OFF of the trigger until they are on target and ready to depress it.
From GUN TESTS
No Go Bang Sometimes:
M&P 380 SHIELD EZ Manual Thumb Safety
Smith & Wesson has launched a “consumer advisory” notice for owners of the M&P 380 Shield EZ Manual Thumb Safety pistol, a common concealed-carry sidearm.
“It seems the function of the M&P 380 Shield EZ Manual Thumb Safety pistol can be influenced by the type and quality of ammunition used with the pistol,” said Todd Woodard, Editor of Gun Tests Magazine. “Most gun owners realize that’s the case with most firearms.
“In the case of the M&P 380 Shield EZ Manual Thumb Safety, however, the company has found ‘that in very rare circumstances,’ ammunition that produces a high level of felt recoil can cause the manual safety to move from the Fire position to the Safe position during firing. That means your Shield unexpectedly might not go bang after it’s fired. That could be very bad for a concealed-carry gun owner who’s depending on the EZ in a self-defense situation.”
Safeties are dumb and unnecessary. I don’t use them and don’t encourage their use. Treat everything like it’s a Glock style gun and you won’t have a problem.
I mean FFS I’m a millennial and even I was taught Mechanical devices fail. NEVER trust that the safety on a gun actually works
Safety devices are needed because shooters are dumb.
to Sricktnine
The U.S. Military disagreed with you as far back as 1911 and as recently as 2017 because they demanded a manual safety on their duty weapons.
I might add that striker fired guns without manual safeties have caused more accidental shootings than any other type of pistol and the internet abounds with horrific pictures of people who have shot themselves because of the lack of manual safety and a single action type of trigger on a pre-loaded striker fired modern plasticky pistol.
As long ago as 1905 FN suddenly realized the screwed up and added a manual safety to to their 1905 striker fired .25 acp pistol then renaming it the model of 1906. Pistols of the past that were striker fired almost all had manual safeties and many had in addition very stiff grip safeties as well. It was done for a reason it saved lives. Strange the Morons of today never learned anything from history but when did the unwashed ever study the history of anything. After all they carry Glocks don’t they.
Citations, please, you fucking moron.
Ridiculous story.
I don’t understand the surprise at armed SSA agents..
The Department of Education has SWAT teams. Only used for collecting student loans though..
This is why you don’t use cheap, flexible, crappy holsters, or big government agents.
“Special” agent.
He’s suing to have documentation to show it wasn’t his fault, otherwise he won’t get overtime anymore.
Operator Error!
Social suckurity has NO BUSINESS having armed jbt’s
I wish he’d shot an artery
That’s not very kind.
an SS enforcement officer ( government twisted sister) has a back up weapon? must be heavily engaged in undercover bedroom work, impressing all with expertise in violating most safety rules! probably a ho-hum worker stuck in a dead end job trying too get a cushion for retirement purposes!
blurry facts; Dumb S*** chambers a cartridge, ensures safety is off then holsters said weapon, proceeds too attempt clipping holster too pants {Wonder if finger was trying too spread holster clip wider?} making it easier too clip on pants) contacted trigger after clip tip snagging on Pants!
so many violations here he should be sued for giving Pistol’s and soft Holsters a bad name!
I think he shot himself and is trying to cover it up.
I can say he is a TRUE MORON who has absolutely no business having a firearm. I have a shield 9mm and a shield 45. I remove and place these weapons in a holster. If your weapon has a thumb safety keep it on until you are on target and ready to fire. End of story!!!
I like that holster and am going to order one for myself. Other than that I want to know the answer to the question about why social security agents need pistols.
In the computer world that would be an ID10T error.
The most disturbing part of the entire story is why does the social security administration have special agents with firearms? To protect themselves from disabled persons or geriatric seniors?
He shot himself while cleaning the gun from what I was told by a close family member! This guy is a crook and con artist!
A family member reported that he lost his job in 2020 because of his injuries however, me thinks he lost his job because they found out they had an imbecile working for them. This lawsuit proves it.
Sad to see someone become addicted to pain pills and destroy their life! This parasite has attempted to take from everyone he has ever met.
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