SSAR-15: Fully Legal Full Auto AR-15 Submachine Gun

1. The Firearm Blog has posted the BATFE(RBF) approval letter for the device, so they are aware of the device and they have decided it is legal. However, I wouldn’t put it past them to change the ruling. If they do, I would hope it kicks off a lawsuit that could have the courts rule that the ATF needs to reign in its sudden ruling changes.

2. How does it work? And, please explain the term “bump fire.” I see that often but don’t know what it means. Thank you.

3. Bump firing is using the recoil-movement of the rifle to pull the trigger again. It generally takes a bit a practice and is not good for anything other than having some fun by mimicking full auto or burst firing.

   Basically, the idea (with out one of these stocks) is that with your forward hand you pull the rifle away from your shoulder, and try to keep constant forward pressure. If you do it right, what happens is you are pulling the trigger into your trigger finger, rather than pulling the trigger. You keep your trigger finger as static as possible – the rifle recoils backwards, but your forward pressure applied with the other hand pulls the rifle forward into your finger again, setting off another round. When done properly the rifle is basically in a controlled bounce off of your finger.

   Not sure how this stock works exactly, it appears to be utilizing the buffer tube spring somehow. For $300 to waste a bunch of ammo, I’ll pass.

4. “Not sure how this stock works exactly, it appears to be utilizing the buffer tube spring somehow. For $300 to waste a bunch of ammo, I’ll pass.”

   It doesn’t use any spring at all. You have to pull the rifle forward with your left arm to continue bump firing. It’s really nothing special; the stock/pistol grip combo just forms a secure chassis for bump firing off the shoulder, that’s all.

   It’s not worth 300 bucks, of course, especially since it looks straight-up ugly. If only magpul had designed it… then it might be a product worth looking at.

5. IIRC there was a similar (and much, much, much cheaper) device that was sold in years past that basically consisted of a spring that mounted behind the trigger, pushing the trigger forward. Combine that with using the off-hand to pull the front of the rifle towards the muzzle and you can get the same “bump fire” effect.

   Of course, unlike an actual full-automatic, the nature of the bump-fire is that the weapon has to be held somewhat loosely, so accuracy is severely compromised. The device seems to be particularly well suited to two purposes: 1. Making noise and 2. Wasting ammo.

6. Martin- The “loose hold” is what this device tries to avoid, since you can grab on to the pistol grip securely and get a strong stock-to-shoulder weld. Still, there’s got to be some amount of play between the stock and the buffer tube, so accuracy won’t be stellar (not that it would be that great in legal full auto anyways). No argument here about the waste… It’s better than normal bumpfire, I guess, but surely not worth 300 bucks.

   I’d pay exactly 50 bucks for it, no more. It’s a novelty.

7. Look how JP explains Bump firing. He is right on track. Im pretty sure that the way this system works is that the spring being pushed back while reloading the camber is also moving hand grip. Thus moving your hand just enough to reset the trigger. But still its a lot of money to buy and use.

8. I have fired using this stock and it is a blast! Yes, you do go through a boat load of ammo. You mention accuracy? How is putting 25 of 30 rounds in a 8″ circle? Using this stock, the gun is completely controllable, and like the web site says you can cease fire after 1, 2, 5, 7, 10 or how ever many rounds you want to stop shooting at.
   As far as I am aware of, there is no other device (at this price) that will allow you to fire at these rates legally. And albeit, that is a limited knowledge. Anyway, you can either spend $319 on one of these stocks or $15k to make an AR fully auto (plus registration, so everybody knows you’ve got one)…it’s your choice.

   • More accurate than the large rubber band method: the guy in the video kept it pretty tight. Shot selectability is due to slow rate of fire: try that on a p90, betchya couldn’t.

   • Just add another $87 to the $300, and snag a BinaryFiringSystem (gen3 now, woot!). It gives a 3rd position to the safety switch, and lets another round fly upon trigger *release*. It still requires a manual manipulation of the trigger for each round, but effectively doubles the rate of fire. Imho, *this* is worth the price point of $387 (on sale at this time from $429) and much more preferable than full auto (or even 3 round burst). It’s absolutely miles ahead of these goofy looking, *highly* over-priced novelty bump fire stocks.

     The BFS-III basically consists of a drop-in trigger assembly, a heavier buffer spring, ambidextrous safety and a sticker to indicate SAFE/FIRE/BINARY positions .

     Yes, i realize at the time of this article being published the BFS-III didn’t exist, but it does NOW! I’m grabbing mine while they’re still ~44 state legal (43, 42, whatever, for the haters). To me, its the ultimate legal alternative to full auto or 3 round burst setups, and incredibly easy to pull tight groups with a microscopic learning curve.

     Props to Franklin Armory of CA!!! (Ahem). And of course, CA residents are SOL on this one, which would be pointless with their 10 round mag limits to start with. 🖖

9. Also, TJM…you are put off by the “handicap” sales pitch…the owner of the company is a disabled vet…

10. I have fired an AR with this installed. Of course the “simulated rapid fire” capability was just plain fun, but what I was immediately impressed with was the ability to crank off controlled, three shot bursts on target by the end of the first clip. Very easy to get the hang of, while retaining the ability to fire single shots for longer range accuracy. But you just gotta do a 30 round mag dump (around 1.6 seconds) now and again just ’cause you can! As for looks, installed, it looks just fine to me.

    • Finally…someone who actually knows what they are talking about!!!! Good job, Zacman!!!

11. I don’t understand why the author says the following statement from the manufacturer “disingenuous”: “The SSAR-15 is NOT a mechanical device. It does not perform any automatic functions, nor does it increase a rifles rate of fire.” The manufacturer is right. This is not a mechanical device, it doesn’t make any functions automatic, and the rate of fire out of the rifle is unchanged (ie 1 bullet per trigger pull). The author needs to explain himself if he is going to make a statement like that.

    • that statement is what was need to make his point. Especially for the ATF. Wording it any other way would they probably would not of gotten ATF’s approval letter. this stock is legal because it does not alter the mechanical operation of the rifle’s action. JP’s description is dead on for regular bump fire. This stock improves on that concept. the rifle slides back and forth in the stock with about 1/2 inch of movement (the original pistol grip is taken off). The stock/grip is held tight to your shoulder. the support hand is on the hand guard keeping the rifle in the pulled back position. The trigger finger is rested on the stock’s tabs to keep it stationary. When you’re ready to fire, you slide the rifle with the support hand foward. that bring the trigger into your trigger finger, thus firing off the first round. Keeping foward pressure on the support hand/rifle will keep the rifle bump fireing until you pull back on the support/rifle. Accuracy is improved vs regular pump fire because the stock to shoulder is secure. the support hand/rifle is secure, just allowing it to fire/slide front to rear. The latch on the stock makes the stock fixed to the rifle, thus allowing regular operation.

12. I just bought one of these stocks last weekend and still have not been able to get the smile off my face. It’s an absolute blast ( no pun intended) to shoot. It does seem a little pricey for a mold injected peace of plastic but it works great. It takes less than 10 minutes to install and that was with a small amount of cutting I had to do to clear my single point sling mount. The down side, I burned up $90.00 of ammo in just a few minutes.

13. O.K., A bunch of people are saying how $300.00 for this stock is a waste of money…Well evidently your either just cheap, or have not paid a couple of hundred for a nice AR stock before. Yes it’s ugly, but once its on the gun, it is not that bad..but let me tell you…IT IS A BLAST! I am a retired Marine and live in a state where full auto weapons cannot be purchased (And dont have a couple of thousand dollars to spend on one), so when I saw this, I thought, why not get it and have some fun…after all, isnt that what lifes about? Well let me tell you, I ran through 1000 rounds in an afternoon, but man was it fun. My Wife and son thought it was great! And as far as accuracy… I can keep it in the black all day long. Very controllerable due to you having to put force against the foward part of the rifle. You can do one, two, three or how ever many rounds at a time you want to..no problem. So for all those who dont want to pay for the stock..guess your just missing out.

14. will this also work on a ar-22 or do they make on yet hope this isnt a stupid question

    • Yes i saw on youtube a guy mounted it on a Smith and Wesson M&P-22

15. Justin – no it will not work on a 22 because there is not enough power behind the load… It works on recoil only… As for those of you who are saying it works with the buffer tube spring, maybe you should do a little homework before stating your opinion as ” fact ” , when you really don’t have a clue to begin with!!! Yes, it is a novelty, but it’s one of the funnest novelties I’ve ever used! As far as looks go.. It looks fine on my buddies AR.
    One thing I will say about it… Make sure you carry the letter from the BATF on or with you when you shoot it. Some one decided that they didn’t like hearing gunfire that fast and decided to call the cops on us… If the owner hadn’t had that letter we’d probably been in some kinda mix up with the local police…

16. I have a 5.56 AR and I’m wating for a 6.8 spc kit. Thanks to some over time ,Next payday I plan on ordering myself a SSAR-15 . I ordered an extra reciever months ago (Just waited to see if the ATF changed it’s mind on it being legal) to have a dedicated lower reciever for the SSAR . This way I can just change the uppers for the caliber of my choice.
    If all you can say is $350 is a lot of money , And it wastes a lot of ammo , Just grab your favorite 22 , a chair , and go plink, plink,pling all day long for $10. As for Me ? (A hard working man with a large family who must save & plan for my toys) I just like to make A LOT OF NOISE!!!!!!! and have fun , So lets just break out some cheep ammo , wake up the neighbors and blast the HELL out of some beer cans !!!!!
    THE YOUNGER KIDS LEARN, THE LESS LIKELY THE’LL BURN

    • Scott, with that kind of attitude, don’t ever get close to a suppressor, you will stop making noise very quickly. FA and no earmuffs=nirvana.

17. A friend of mine has one. Very fun, but also very expensive. If the price comes down I’m definately in. As far as legal? It’s bump-fire, not full-auto. They have an ATF letter, that’s legal enough for me.

18. Just got one, super easy to use and accurate! 30 rd mag all in the black at 50 yds in less than 3 seconds.

19. I just got mine and 1000 rounds later I hope all the people talking about the price doesn’t get one. I have shot f-auto and this is that rate of speed plus accuracy due to recoil back in to the slide planted,is so close and more accurate. Shoot your bb guns for $6.50 all day long. Lmfao

20. I got the ssak-47 I received it in the mail installed it in minutes when out one week latter with 225 rounds and left in 10 minutes it worked and I was so amazed my friends shot it to and one of them offered to buy it

21. I have had mine on RRA AR-15 since Christmas and it does everything you’ve seen and heard (amazing). It also fit perfectly on my S&W M&P 15-22 — just had to have lighter trigger, 3.5 – 4 lbs. Rumor has it that although it comes with ATF letter, it is illegal in ILLINOIS, go figure. But I can’t verify that specifically the Slide Fire Solutions SSAR 15 stock is truly illegal in IL, just hearsay even from some police but no written proof anywhere; nothing on Google searches etc. But, because “turns it into fully auto” (which we know it doesn’t) that’s all some higher ups may hear. Does anyone know if ILLINOIS has any specific law with proof about THIS device?

22. Would be nice if YOU know the definition of a full automatic firearms, which you don’t. How about getting your facts correct before running your mouth

23. “…running your mouth” what? My whole post WAS to try to get facts. I know that automatic means more then one fire per trigger pull according to IL state police law but when an IL gun shop owner says an IL cop told him someone at headquartes says these are illegal in IL that doesnt match the statute. Unless it goes under the “intention” or “resembling” a machine gun. I was merely asking the blog world if they knew any specific law on this specific device in IL.

24. With Notice of Patent and Trademark Infringement letter starting surface across the country the future of the BUMPFIRE stock will be decided in Federal Court and it will have nothing to do with ATF.
    Fostech Outdoors, LLC
    v. Slide Fire Solutions, Inc.
    Complaint for Patent Infringement
    Civil Action No. 1:12-cv-00289-WTL-DML, the Hon. William T. Lawrence presiding.
    Filed on March 5, 2012 in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Indiana;
    Indianapolis, IN- Patent attorneys for Fostech Outdoors, LLC of Paris Crossing, Indiana filed a patent infringement suit in the Southern District of Indiana alleging Slide Fire Solutions, Inc. of Moran, Texas infringed patent no. 6101918, METHOD AND APPARATUS FOR ACCELERATING THE CYCLIC FIRING RATE OF A SEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARM, which has been issued by the US Patent Office.
    The patented technology is described as “bump fire stocks” which are a device that, when attached to certain firearms, allows the firearm to rapidly fire multiple shots. The complaint alleges that Slide makes, imports, and/or sells a product called “SSAR-15 stock” that infringes the ‘918 patent “when used in conjunction with certain firearms assemblies.” The complaint alleges that Slide actively induces other to infringe the Fostech’s patent and that Slide should be liable for contributory infringement because it knows there are no non-infringing uses for its product. The complaint makes one claim of patent infringement and seeks an injunction, damages, costs and attorney fees.
    Practice Tip: The plaintiff here has made a claim of contributory patent infringement, which governed by 35 U.S.C. § 271(b) and is defined as selling or importing a device “for use in practicing a patented process, constituting a material part of the invention, knowing the same to be especially made or especially adapted for use in an infringement of such patent, and not a staple article or commodity of commerce suitable for substantial noninfringing use”
    Personal jurisdiction may be an issue in this case. The plaintiff alleges Slide regularly conducts business in Indiana and the events giving rise to the suit occurred in Indiana. However, none of the specific acts of infringement seem to have occurred in Indiana.
    This case has been assigned to Judge William T. Lawrence and Magistrate Judge Debra McVicker Lynch in the Southern District of Indiana and assigned Case No. 1:12-cv-00289-WTL-DML

    Further Information about the case is as follows:
    FOSTECH OUTDOORS, LLC v. SLIDE FIRE SOLUTIONS, INC.
    Assigned to: Judge William T. Lawrence
    Referred to: Magistrate Judge Debra McVicker Lynch
    Cause: 35:145 Patent Infringement
    Case #: 1:12-cv-00289-WTL-DML
    Complaint-Fostech, LLC v Sliding Fire Solutions, Inc.

25. I have fired one of these and they are the easiest and simplest device made, to learn to use. I fired a three round burst the first time I picked it up. The Hellfire and the others like it that mount in the trigger well are junk and seldom work. This works flawlessly everytime. For those of you who think it is expensive, I remember when drop in auto sears were first made and legal until the atf decided otherwise. You could make one, or buy one for a hundred dollars. When they were made illegal, you could register them. Now they sell for $7000 if you can find one. Same with the lightning link. May be a hell of an investment. They are durable and built to last.

    • The Select Fire Stock is now made for the AR-10, AR-15, Stamped AK’s Saigas the SKS and Mini-14/30

26. Yet again, another writer of an article on ‘TheTruthAboutGuns.com’ that doesn’t have a freakin CLUE what he’s talking about. Apparently you people don’t actually know sh1tt about the truth about guns.

    Case in point…the Title of this article is “SSAR-15: Fully Legal Full Auto AR-15 Submachine Gun” and that couldn’t be further from the “TRUTH”. All this stock does is allow for ‘controlled’ bump firing. A “machine gun” will expend every round in the mag with a single press of the trigger (assuming you keep it pressed in long enough). 1 trigger press = empty mag!! THAT is a machine gun!!

    Another thing the drooling imbecile that wrote this article got wrong is calling it a ‘Sub Machine gun’. What a blithering moron! A submachine gun is an automatic or select-fire shoulder fired weapon that fires pistol-caliber ammunition…PERIOD!!

    With the slide stock there is a really big fuggen distinction between a machine gun and a semi auto. With the slide stock, for every round that leaves the barrel, the trigger was pressed 1 time…i.e. a semi auto. Just because it’s done really fast doesn’t make it a ‘machine gun’ and it g0d d@mn sure doesn’t make it a ‘sub-machine gun’.

    Who are the morons that write these articles? Gun hating children with absofcukinloutely no experience with firearms whatsoever? Seems like it.

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