check book checkbook gun finances
Image by Carl "Bear" Bussjaeger

Here’s a little thought experiment. To be clear, I’m not proposing that this actually be done, but it might be worth discussing it with anti-2A types. It also makes a good talking point.

No doubt you recall the Obama administration order that magically — without adjudication — made some Social Security recipients prohibited persons. Notably it affected those who could not manage their own finances. Gropin’ Joe Biden wants to revive that gun ban (among others).

Despite the election mess (remember the good old days when they just fought over whether voters were too stupid to follow the arrows on a “butterfly ballot” or to punch a card?), it seems at least likely that Biden (or Harris) will be the next President. Personally, I don’t see the same courts that authorized bureaucrats to violate election laws after the voting started doing anything to reverse the outcome of the chaos and fraud they enabled.

So imagine a President Biden (or Harris) in office and signing an order to the effect that ifyou’re too stupid or incompetent to balance a check book, you’re not competent enough to have a gun and make the decision of whether someone needs shooting.

Now imagine to whom that finding might extend.

We allegedly have a sudent loan crisis. Too damned many students and their parents parents took out loans they now cannot repay. How stupid is that?

I never finished college. After my scholarship ran out, it never occurred to me to do something as nuts as take out a massive loan with a payment plan my potential earnings couldn’t cover. And I wasn’t so mentally deficient as to even consider asking my parents to assume such a debt. So I hit upon the plan of enlisting in the Air Force and using tuition assistance to gradually work towards a degree while earning a living.

In practice, even correspondence courses proved problematical when assigned to remote mountaintops where mail came in via the occasional C-130 to a point where a truck could pick it up. In the end, out in the civilian world, I earned enough that a degree no longer seemed necessary. Certainly not necessary enough to take out an insane, unpayable loan. Because I am not crazy.

Discuss this with gun control proponents. Tell them Biden’s (or Harris) plan to take away 2A rights from those unable to manage their finances doesn’t go far enough. Tell them it should include those so fiscally and/or mentally incompetent that they caused an alleged national crisis ($1.6 trillion and counting) can’t be trusted with guns either.

Can you really trust a bankrupt part-time barista with hundreds of thousands in debt and a degree in social justice intersectional grievance studies to make wise choice with a firearm? Tell them that anyone applying for student debt relief should also lose their gun rights, and see what happens.

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83 COMMENTS

  1. Better argument: many/most anti’s smoke weed. Remind them that users of the devil’s lettuce are not allowed to buy a gun. They are prohibited persons, like felons and the mentally insane. They are not responsible enough to be trusted with a dangerous object. It’s common sense, isn’t it, to at least keep guns out of the hands of irresponsible people like them, isn’t it?

    • the student loan program was a racket from the get go…largely foisted on a gullible public by the colleges and universities…and most importantly,.. the banks…much easier to control a group in financial servitude….

      • Without easy student loans, people would start to question the ever increasing tuition rates and expanding campuses without increasing the quality of education. They sell it as helping people by getting an education, but it helps the universities more than anyone.

        Oh, and how does a one time debt forgiveness fix anything in the future? Why wouldn’t we be right back in this situation in a few years? It’s just like granting mass citizenship to all illegal aliens. It doesn’t fix the root of the problem. But fixing the problem is never really the plan, is it?

        • If a bureaucracy fixes the problem it was created to solve, it eliminates the cause of its own existence and is typically dissolved. If it makes the problem worse, however, (while of course pretending to offer solutions,) it increases its resources and power and perpetuates its own existence. This is the nature of all bureaucracies, without exception.

          The crucial issue all true representative governments face is the unaccountable bureaucracy. Specifically, it is the unaccountable bureaucrat. When was the last time you heard about a financial regulator being sent to prison for taking bribes to allow a bank to steal money from homeowners? Never. But we both know they do it, so why not? An entire bureaucracy exists in the Federal Government of the US to prevent that very thing, so why does it continue to happen? Why did, when their malfeasance finally caught up with them, the banks get billions in tax dollars no strings attached, instead of their executives and directors being prosecuted for deliberately causing a financial crisis? Because the bureaucrats charged with watching them realized they’d lose funding if they allowed them to be stopped. So here we are again, facing the next real estate finance bubble. The last one started with “historic lows” and led to a panic-buying “hot market” just like ammo and firearms are right now, and concluded with the literal forcing of American famillies out of their homes at gunpoint becaude a bank lied about what they owed them.

          Now consider the state of “intelligence” and firearm “regulation” since the turn of the Millennium. Ask yourself if, for all the trillions spent on “stopping terrorism”, if terrorist attacks are any more or less common in this country. Then ask yourself what those bureaucracies are still doing here today.

          The answer may lead you to some uncomfortable conclusions, but the Founders had some choice words to say about Comfort as it related to Liberty.

        • Student loans *caused* the skyrocketing cost of tuition. Loans are proportional to the student’s shortfall in buying power, so costs can rise without limit because there’s nothing tying them to people’s actual ability to pay.

    • I get your point. And, it’s a good arguing point. But, that issue is one that I’ve wrestled with for almost all of my adult life. I’m not a smoker, but little brother and a fair number of friends and acquaintances do smoke.

      For the record, none of those potheads has ever been responsible for another person’s serious injury or death, with or without firearms.

      I guess if potheads can be responsible with firearms, it only highlights that the gun grabbers have little reason to target the other groupsl.

      • Oh it’s not MY point. I would never argue that a user should be prohibited. It’s just priceless to see them stammer when they make some asinine anti gun argument and you point out that they are a prohibited person. “Well, then, we will start with YOU.”

  2. You could make that argument about any kind of financial debt.

    Once again the leftist elite probe their true allegiances ally with the rich. The Irony.

      • I mean, I’m for that idea. If you have any kind of debt you’re not your own man. The culture of debt means that Americans don’t make principled decisions. Americans go along because they would risk losing everything if they rock the boat – say, if they’re blackballed in their current profession for the wrong opinions, for example.

        If we started rewarding people for sane, responsible decisions, and started making it so only those who were willing to BE sane and responsible voted.. it’d make quite a difference. Hell, even if we just said “only those who paid income taxes and have no outstanding debt beyond their mortgage” it would STILL be mostly responsible, sane people voting.

        The idea that the vote of a responsible citizen should be on par with a drug-addled homeless person is laughable. And yet that is what Democrats claim “the beauty of Democracy” is.. and it’s why we’re not supposed to be a Democracy, were NOT founded as such, and why we need to bring back voting qualifications. As long as I’m dreaming, we should go back to Senators being appointed by their state legislatures while we’re at it.

        • I see you are a man of culture as well 😀

          “There is no honor in poverty.”

          “There is no substitute for success.”

        • Afraid I still think you go too far. Although I have been completely debt free for over 25 years now, haven’t paid a nickel in interest to anybody, I don’t think that is necessary to bring sanity back to our government. I think just restricting the vote to people who pay Federal income taxes would do quite nicely. During my lifetime I have seen MANY people change their entire outlook when they have to pay a tax bill for the first time. And a few people when they are first informed what their tax bill was, instead of what their refund was. Reality lands on your head like a ton of bricks.

        • And yet you are still not a free man when free of debt. Try not paying your taxes and see how free you remain and if you retain all of those items you are free of debt on.

    • Well so much for that whole Big Tech conspiracy, if the head of security for Apple ain’t got the horsepower to get a CCW.

      And that’s even in Commiefornia, what happened to that secret conspiracy of the West Coast ‘Big Tech’ billionaires?

      • It was those big Tech billionaires who spent piles of money in Washington state that got gun control passed.

        But they still have their own armed Private Security in Washington State. So they’re still Hypocrites in Miner 49er.

    • Such old news. The investigation started at least a year ago. The second in command of the Sheriff’s Department has been charged, but we are all waiting for the Sheriff herself to feel the bite of the ax. This is what life is like in “no issue” California counties, a “may issue” state. The discretion afforded the Sheriff in approving or denying an application opens the door to rampant corruption–just like it did in NYC. CCWs are in demand, and people will pay mordida to get one. (As an aside, I find it amusingly hypocritical that all of these ultraliberal tech companies who are anti-gun to a man find it advisable to have armed security. Like Bloomie, but without the opportunity to hire a bunch of cops who have CCWs by virtue of LEOSA.

      Now I happen to live in a “virtual shall issue” county, where CCWs are issued unless there is a good reason to deny one. Shall issue jurisdictions eliminate the opportunity for political shenanigans.

  4. Funny how there’s a “too stupid” bar applied to virtually everything but voting. It almost seems like the further below that bar one is the more value they have as a voter.

    • And being a politician. Should be a mandatory IQ test to run for office. Would be best to make it retroactive I’m thinking.

  5. That is a stupid idea, but what else should we expect from on of our national heroes. Because you’re all heroes right?

    Thank you for your service

  6. I’m fine with those losers getting $50,000 in student loan forgiveness as long as I get $50,000 in mortgage forgiveness. I won’t hold my breath. The wealthy democrat politicians can foot the bill since they think it’s such a great idea.

    • Well you always have to option of selling or filling for bankruptcy, funny how that does not work with student loans.

      • Not really. Most loans are initially issued through a federal program. And you know the line about death and taxes–student loans are no different. It used to be worse. 30 years ago you could not even deduct the interest portion off your income taxes after the reversal of a long standing policy allowing it.

  7. 1. State Universities are simply to expensive. Find an affordable tuition and force Universities to budget accordingly. I lived like a hermit in college but I didn’t run up any debt.
    2. Student loan forgiveness shouldn’t be easy . Tie debt forgiveness to a real job that needs to be done in a difficult environment. Military service, work as a Nurses Aid in a tribal hospital, work as a deputy in rural Alaska.

    • There already are debt forgiveness programs just like that. The problem is that there aren’t very many jobs that qualify, and there are very few people who meet the criteria (specific degrees and qualifications are always required). It’s a tiny drop in a gigantic bucket.

  8. Poor fiscal actions are cause tondeny a security clearance, in fact it’s the most common problem right up there with drugs and criminal records. Real background checks take months and are adjudicated once completed.
    Not that it matters when it comes to gun rights. Cleared individuals get no consideration in slave states and cities.

    So the left should be careful. Liberals like guns too just not in their opponents hands. The same mechanisms they use to disarm others can be used against them too. It will eventually.

  9. I wish I cared. I don’t. I didn’t finish college. I don’t care if Ken or Karen do. My eldest son joined the military at 18,saw the world,speaks Arabic,got a college degree and has NO student debt. Not a realistic option for me as Vietnam was still raging when I was 18. Thems the breaks…

  10. I’d just be happy with being able to deduct the interest on my student loans. Picked a major I enjoyed that paid well, engineering, took the loans to cover what I couldn’t make by working. Then I graduate and guess what? I make too much to be able to deduct the interest while underwater basket weaving major working at Walmart with $100k in debt can write off the interesting into owing no taxes every year. F*ck, how about rewarding the fiscally conservative planners??

    • If you make too much money, pay it off as quickly as possible and get free. Unfortunately there will always be people with no brains looking for a handout but you’re not one of them. Being debt free is the best way you can spend your money and build wealth.

      Writing off student loan or mortgage interest (or unnecessary business expenses) on income taxes is no gift. That means for every dollar you shove in someone else’s pocket, you get to keep about 25 cents a year later. How about keeping the whole dollar to begin with?

      I wasn’t smart enough to be an engineer, but I was clever enough to work my way to freedom and modest wealth.

  11. Student loan forgiveness? No problemo funding is on the way. Jim Crow Gun Control joe and the ho said they were going to tax guns and ammo. Rest assured the pompous lily white marxists behind the insanity assume they have a “Black Army” that will protect them should sht hit the fan. Bad assumption white boy.

  13. Libertarians liberals and the left don’t believe in personal responsibility. Libertarians don’t believe in personal responsibility when it comes to drug use. And the Liberals and the Left don’t believe in personal finance responsibility under any circumstances.

  14. A college degree does not equate to intelligence. I was homeless at 17 and at 23 I paid cash for my first house. How?, Hard work, three jobs, living in a one room basement apartment and saving, saving, saving. Buying assets and selling them at a profit.
    Was able to retire at 50 with life long income and no debt. Never had any help from anyone, especially the government. In the 5 hours between jobs, I read everything I could. You don’t need a university, everything you need to know is in a book. Want to be successful, don’t be lazy, quit feeling sorry for yourself and get off your ass and work. Help others (sometimes for free, because your learning something). It is really that simple.

  15. I went right into a blue collar career out of high school. No debt, steady job, plenty of extra dough to get me into the 3%.

    • I do believe the last two generations were really screwed by the “you must go to college to get a good job” mentality they were brainwashed with as kids. It was an unseen factor in the 2008 crash and remains prevailing among them to this day. They were brainwashed into going college then brainwashed with Marxism when they got there, then reaffirmed that Marxist teaching when the real world didn’t pan out the way their parents or Marx said it would. Their masters degrees and even doctorates are next to worthless now.

      Higher level education isn’t and shouldn’t be job training or a qualifier. And you certainly can’t try to predict what the market or economy will be 20-30 years from now.

      Children should be raised with real knowledge, experience in the real world, to be flexible and self sufficient. That is far more valuable then any formal education now.

      • It depends on the major and career. STEM degrees make sense and lead to jobs that pay bucks. Gender Studies or Art History, not so much. There’s a chance you could get a job teaching those, but they’re worthless otherwise.

      • Fields like IT have changed rapidly in the last 20 years. A computer science degree that costs 100k used to mean a starting salary close to 6 figures and a dozen job offers. Now it’s half that and you’re looking at help desk jobs. Tech has outsourced and automated heavily and the cloud is going to end a lot of career paths. Programming and database administration are holdouts but even those jobs won’t be as valuable going forward. The big jobs today didn’t even exist 20 years ago so it’s hard to get a degree that fits what we will be doing in 2040.

        I’d like to get into managing Ukrainian oil companies and investing Chinese CP money. I hear it’s possible to afford a lot of coke and women in that role and you only have to share a bit with The Big Guy.

  16. Three student debt deadbeats should loose their right to vote as well as their right to own a gun. No Democrat would ever be elected again.

    Maybe we should regrets to the good old days when the only people who were allowed to vote were white men who own land and own guns and own slaves?

    • They are only deadbeats if they are not paying. The biggest injustice of loan forgiveness is it mostly benefits the 1/3.

  17. They’ll just agree with you because guns are bad unless the government has them and is under the *right* people’s control.

    Further, this article glosses very heavily over an educational problem that goes far deeper than “student loan debt” and “stupid people”.

    There’s a reason that wealth is being concentrated to a nearly unbelievable level in certain counties, to the point that such an imbalance will almost certainly destroy the country over time. Sorry to say it but as stupid and demeaning as “learn to code” was/is there is a grain of truth to it.

    But don’t worry. It’s all simple to fix. Just ignore it like we have for 60+ years. Like a massive necrotic wound, it will get better all on it’s own. Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat tends to work this way historically. Like, every time.

    And of course, if you want to feel like you’re “doing something” offering idiotic simplistic solutions just like a Lefty does will definitely solve the problems.

    • “There’s a reason that wealth is being concentrated to a nearly unbelievable level in certain counties, to the point that such an imbalance will almost certainly destroy the country over time.”

      Notice how those counties full of the ultra wealthy vote.

  18. My go-to argument has been to allow someone (preferably the one I’m debating) to voluntarily and irrevocably give-up their own 2A rights. They and those like them can then remove potentially millions of current and future guns from private hands.

    The responses are so much fun.

  19. The simple way to fix the “student loan debt problem” is make it uninsured by the federal goverment and dischargeable by bankruptcy. Then the people making the loans might actually have to evaluated the borrower.

    • Ahem. The typical borrower is a late teen or early twenty something with no assets and no job other than going to school since age four. How are such persons supposed to qualify? Heck, they don’t even qualify for unsecured credit debt. These facts are precisely why the federal student aid programs were developed.

      • Easy. They agree to fork over a portion of their earnings, extracted like any other tax, to pay for their debts.
        That will make them consider a 20k debt over a 150k debt for that liberal arts degree they want.

        If we can strip billions from paychecks we can get loans repaid. No job? Then the college gets tapped. They will start tailoring their programs to real work real quick.

        Right now colleges have the best position in all this with no throttle on price.

        • “Easy. They agree to fork over a portion of their earnings, extracted like any other tax, to pay for their debts.”

          An idea worth exploring.

          The armed services education grants are a short-term example of that. ‘X’ years of saluting, school gets paid for…

      • “How are such persons supposed to qualify?”

        The universities that end up with the money cosign. If it’s such a given that the education they’re offering will lead to a great paying job then this shouldn’t be a problem, right? This would force the universities to have the student’s best interest in mind instead of their own. They would have to be honest about the best major pick and job outlook for the students. They don’t want to do that because that would mean fewer students and more competitive tuition rates. It would solve the “problem” but they prefer the problem.

  20. Instead of a degree how about taking specific classes to make yourself valuable to a company you may already be working. In the mid 90’s when computers were newish, me an hourly union guy took a week of vacation to take an adult ed class on lotus 123. A simple spreadsheet program but I got my foot in the door for filling in with the accounting dept. I was also given the opportunity to take night classes the company paid for including books. As a union man I became the occupational and environmental health and safety officer at a kroger manufacturing facility.

    • Nobody cares that once again, SOMEONE ELSE GAVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY…
      NOT everyone has the LUCK that you had……
      And don’t try the typical bs about me being jealous…..I make enough to buy plenty o guns…… unfortunately everytime I do buy one, I end up losing it while alligator hunting in the Everglades….

  22. “Discuss this with gun control proponents. Tell them Biden’s (or Harris) plan to take away 2A rights from those unable to manage their finances doesn’t go far enough. Tell them it should include those so fiscally and/or mentally incompetent that they caused an alleged national crisis ($1.6 trillion and counting) can’t be trusted with guns either.”

    What do you expect to accomplish? Do you think they’ll suddenly realize that they’ve been crazy all along? Or do you think they’ll agree and use it to prohibit MORE gun sales?

  23. Won’t work. These people are too stupid to even understand the concept of losing their 2A rights forever. They really believe that the police that they want to defund and made into another safe space hall monitor will protect them.

    • You’re actually on to something. The dirty little secret is that students use those super easy access loans to live on. Notice how they live. Cruise by your local college and check out the nice cars those “poor” students drive. Check out their luxury apartments. When I was in college, I lived in several super old, cheap apartments. I ended up buying a new vehicle, but it was a base model truck back when you could get the end of year models for $12k. I used the truck to haul my equipment to mow yards. This was in addition to another part-time job I had. I don’t feel sorry for these people thinking they’re going to get a free ride.

      • I bought my first gun my senior year of college. Ruger SR22. In part paid for with Pell grant, loan, and scholarship overrun. No ragrets.

        • I used a student loan to buy an engagement ring and pay for a honeymoon. But then I paid it off myself like a big boy.

        • I bought my first handgun my senior year of college, don’t recall where I got the money, but the most expensive handgun around, a shiny new Colt Python for $160.

    • “Use student loans to buy guns.”

      That’s how the Colorado Batman movie house shooter got his guns and ammo, if memory serves…

  25. The main problem with this argument is that the goal of gun control is to ban all guns eventually. The gun prohibitionists will seize any argument, no matter how thin or irrational, to ban some guns (or baning some people with guns). They would love to ban students and 20-30 year old because they wont grow up to pass along icky guns to their kids.

    So while it seems illogical to ban people with student loans from owning guns… gun prohibitionists may very well go for it, because you offered it up.

  26. You’re making assumptions that don’t line up with their perception of reality.

    ANY thing that limits 2A rights is a positive feature in their book.

  27. Anybody with unpaid student loans probably has a degree in Urban Transgender Basket Weaving. You think they care about owning a gun?

  28. A representative payee is not just about someone being incapable of handling money.

    “The law requires most minor children and all legally incompetent adults to have payees.

    We presume an adult is capable to manage his or her own benefits. If it appears this may not be true, we gather evidence to decide if we need to appoint a representative payee.”

    I’m sure some of you may be disappointed, but I must say that I do not want “legally incompetent adults” having ready access to firearms.

    I can understand how the guns and ammo manufacturing companies want to sell to everyone, regardless of their mental stability but I don’t think it is necessarily a good idea for our society.

  29. Student loan ? i used my GI bill by serving my country , good old USA , more younger people should try it .
    Law bide N citizens , we have gun rights , got new Kimber this year and ammo before everyone went gun N ammo crazy . God Bless America n ya’all

  30. And now what do we do, when Biden and Harris want to forgive all student debt. The student will never learn when there is no repercussions to the stupid things one does.

    These will be the leaders of tomorrow and we will all pay the price for stupidity.

    God help us all!

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