https://youtu.be/T9LvWtnIZpw

You may have heard about a negligent discharge at a California training course run by an instructor working for James Yeager’s Tactical Response. Instructor Tim Morris threw down his gun — just to prove a point. Don’t baby your gun! Yes, well, Morris sent a round into a nearby vehicle. James Yeager’s response is weak sauce: as confrontational as it is conciliatory, accusing the students of not being genuine, hating on California and telling critics to FOAD. A simple apology would have sufficed.

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117 COMMENTS

    • It’s awful only if you listen to what he is saying. Consider what he is not addressing and you have a rich narrative of how the company operates and sequences its priorities. Neither cops yelling or hand injuries require throwing a gun on the ground, let alone stop int on it. Needing to go all drama queen serves no purpose except impress the ninjas.

      Tactical Response: putting the N in ND since 1996.

    • “Morris’ gun fired” – I see that TTAG is now writing their own Passively Constructed Negligent Discharge Story of the Day. 🙂

    • This is exactly the type of comment that I find so childish not to mention pathetic. Who are you to judge vyhrus? I’ve actually taken a class from Tactical Response; have you?

      • When a man publicly puts himself out as a gun rights advocate and then goes on youtube months after one of the worst mass shootings in history and yells into a camera ‘if this goes one inch farther I am going to start killing people’, that person does not deserve and will not receive one cent of my money nor one ounce of my respect. I am sorry you fell for his utter bullshit and that you gave money to a man who is constantly acting like a spoiled child and undermining our rights through his god awful behavior, but I am calling him out for what he is: A roid raging douchebag without one shred of common sense or decency.

  3. People’s responses to me saying I prefer to carry (old school) Israeli style range from polite to treating me like some kind of pansy face idiot. Besides the fact I like an extra second to asses my target and background, or the fact that I might hop on a dirt bike or go off roading in my bronco or throw my gat in a locker, bag or glovebox, I have a 2 year old daughter and if she runs up and grabs my leg she would be standing right under my holster, if I had a round chambered that becomes a major safety violation, as it stands, if she did do that while I was carrying there is zero chance of ND. So f you are one those guys who rolls cocked and locked, cool, but if I catch you bending over in front of me to tie your shoe instead of squatting down so as not to flag me, my ‘tactical response’ might very well be to kick you square in the ass.

    • That doesn’t seem like a good idea for the aforementioned reasons. Maybe get off the X is more appropriate, as is any situation when you are obviously flagged accidentally…

      But given your self described need for a few seconds of extra thought, I’m willing to bet you didn’t think the response through…

    • 1. Assuming you will have both hands free and available during a sudden violent attack is… optimistic, at best.

      2. A good holster will prevent any trigger related ND. If you’re worried about your daughter, get a good holster… and perhaps start teaching her not to grab your strong side thigh.

      3. If you suddenly violently assault me with your foot while I am tying my shoe I will assume you are initiating violence against me, and you will get shot. So… try to be less of an internet tough guy douchebag, mkay?

      • “try to be less of an internet tough guy douchebag, mkay?”

        You mean like not threatening to shoot someone for kicking you?

        • Way too many internet tough guys….shooting over getting kicked. Good luck articulating that to a jury.

        • Don’t go assaulting people in the street. If you do, and you get shot, guess who isn’t voting to convict?

        • If it’s just one kick, like say a version of the “Knockout Game,” then at most, draw your gun, but do not shoot, IMO. But if it is multiple kicks, then you have to assume a violent attack. A person can be beaten to death with just punches and kicks.

        • You can be seriously harmed by a kick. Am I not being kicked for tying my shoe..? Does that not sound like a person you should be concerned about? One that goes around kicking people for tying their shoes. How many kicks should I suffer before this assault meats your personal definition of possible deadly force? 1, 2, 3 kicks? Am I required by law to use my psychic powers to know how many kicks are coming my way, or that after one kick or many that a guy kicking me for tying my shoe isn’t going to escalate even further? I mean, come on! We’re talking about a deranged fuckwad that kicks people tying their shoes because he has this delusional phobia of holstered guns “going off on their own”. At least an ISIS terrorist hates me for my freedom. This twat just kicks shoe-tyers…

      • “Internet tough guy” followed by a personal attack. Classy virus, really classy. You must be looking in the mirror though as you follow up your childish remarks with a threat.
        Chances are you are nothing but a pus*y; but brave with a keyboard in your hands. Pathetic.

    • Then you better draw and rack faster than the guy draws.

      I only carry in condition3 at home. I’m just not ok with a loaded gun constantly flagging my wife and kids. But if i’m out side (higher threat, lower chance of family member messing with me), condition1 all the way

      • Not every threat is a guy with a gun.

        And drawing on a guy with a gun who jumped on you might be a bad idea regardless of how you carry, because he has already started drawing before you noticed him, so he has a lead there. And when he sees you starting to draw, you can bet that he will actually shoot the gun, not merely point it at you.

        • I think you misread me. I didnt actually mean a quickdraw competition between 2 people per se.
          I just meant to say, when he kicks the ass of the guy bending down to tie the shoelaces just because of carrying in condition1, he’d better be ready for the consequences.

        • I’ve read police officers have a way to negate that, which is to step to the side as they draw their gun, so that if the criminal fires, they have a greater chance of missing.

    • If you read what some of the witnesses stated, the instructor thru the gun on the ground in a gravel parking lot, then stepped on it with force. Thats what caused the ND apparently, not being dropped. And in a proper holster the gun is safe.

      • That’s so incredibly stupid. Even if the gun had an empty chamber, this is abusive to an expensive weapon. The slide rails could get damaged, the muzzle crown could have been damaged, external controls could have been damaged — it’s not simply a cosmetic issue of “Oh noes, I don’t want scratches on my gun” which is what I would guess the instructor was trying to prove: “It’s a defense tool, not a fashion statement, don’t worry about drops and scratches.” But he picked a moronic way to go about making that point.

        • Scratches lessen the corrosion resistance of the surface, bare or coated. It’s just plain stupidity to unnecessarily damage things you depend on.

        • Throwing a gun on the ground almost makes me cringe. I carry a Sig P229 Elite with Rosewood grips. New, they were damn near a thousand dollars and I bought mine new and it is in like new condition now. There isn’t a scratch on it and I would NEVER EVER throw my daily carry gun on the ground let alone step, stomp or squish it like it was a bug in my house.
          If I had an instructor that did that, he would be an former instructor of mine. As far as James Yeager saying he doesn’t owe anyone anything, I disagree with that. There are those that seem to worship the ground he walks on and watch every one of his videos like it’s a Star Trek rerun. For those people, he does owe something, he owes an explanation. The rest of us don’t care one way or the other, like me.

    • Well, sorry but Israeli carry means you’re doing it wrong. There are numerous threat situations in which you will not have time to chamber a round. The average engagement distance for law enforcement officers is 7 years and for civilians you can bet your ass it will be less than that.

      A young male in good shape can cover that 5 or so yards in less than a second, so good luck with that whole “I don’t carry a round chambered” thing.

        • http://youtu.be/ACtiDeZRe-w

          Fortunately this toddler didnt need to rack the slide… But that risk is worth taking so you can be a lethal killing machine in a split second whenever you get into a mall ninja quick draw shoot out…

          Train like this:

          http://youtu.be/p3kJ6SU3ycs

          Geez. It’s fine if you prefer to carry chambered but quit acting like this is the only way to do it and best in all circumstances. People assess risks differently.

          For my money NDs are way more common than DGUs that depend on split second shots. So carrying chambered is an effective way to increase your odds of actually getting shot.

          Also your odds of accidentally shooting your OWN are nearly 100% higher carrying chambered, which is worth like a million billion negative points in any mathematical risk mitigation strategy.

        • re: Blindman

          The people in ‘control’ of those firearms should never have had them to begin with. If you are going to handle a gun like that, sure, you should not have it loaded. But you shouldn’t have it AT ALL.

        • @Blindman

          ND is more common than DGU requiring split-second drawing?
          How do you know that? And how do you know that not carrying with a round chambered only affects you draw TIME?

          As a banker/trader by trade lemme tell you how your “math risk mitigation strategy” (whatever that is) works.

          You have to factor in all the opportunity costs.

          Not having a round chambered does damatically reduce the possibility of being shot with you own gun. What you forgot is that, a rack before firing needs: NOT forgetting about it, two hands, correct movements, and extra time.

          You could forget it. You may have one hand doing something else. You may short-stroke the slide. You may not have the time.

          All this amounts to increasing the likelihood of being killed by others so that you dont kill yourself. The former you have no control. The latter you have full control if you choose to.

          There’s no free meal as a free meal given to you takes time to eat. When something such as “reducing the risk by 100%” goes through your mind you’re doing something wrong.

        • >> ND is more common than DGU requiring split-second drawing?
          > How do you know that?

          How do you know it’s not the case?

          So many people here religiously oppose IDF carry because “there could be a situation where it matters”, with the presumption that the chance of that is higher than ND. But did anyone actually ran the numbers?

          I strongly suspect that NDs are far more common than DGUs in general.

        • @int19h

          I dont know either way, and i dont think anyone has a means to find out.

          Look, there are several things to sort out for this problem. And i never said condition3 is wrong in itself. I personally carry in condition3 at home. 1 when outside.

          Carry in condition3: less likely to ND. More likely to be killed by the enemy.

          And the consequences of an ND are different from those resulted from a loss in the battle.

          How likely is it for you to be in a gunfight in the given situation?
          How much damage is done if you lose the gunfight?
          How much damage is done if you ND?
          How likely is it to ND in Con1?
          How likely is it to lose the gunfight in Con3?

          Every person has their own judgment in this. For EDC purposes with a quality gun and a quality holster, i honestly dont see the need to carry in Con3. Since a reasonably competent person is really more likely to mess up the more complex drawstroke and lose a gunfight, than to have the gun just somehow go off in the holster or during reholstering every morning when they can take all the time they want.

        • And most NDs we see or hear of are usually at the range or during gun handling at home, which have nothing to do with carrying in condition 1 or 3 anyway.

        • Blindman; “nearly 100% higher carrying chambered, which is worth like a million billion negative points in any mathematical risk mitigation strategy”

          I don’t think you fully understand how statistics work.

          And with a decision as important as this one, approaching the subject with such a distorted view of reality is a very bad idea.

          You need to rethink this one from the beginning – you may well come to the same decision, and what is right for you is of course your business. But you have to understand your current logic is faulty.

      • The average engagement for a law officer is seven years. I trade mine in at 5, deprecation kills you after that. My current wife is getting traded off in a month or two.

    • I served in the IDF as far as I know that method of carry ended sometime before 2006. But if it works for you and you train with it (about as much as an Israeli commando) then I say go for it.

      • Exactly! If you want to carry like IDF, you damn well better train like IDF. You’re introducing a lot extra actions that require fine motor skills in a moment when you can reasonably expect to be at such a state of adrenaline that you’ll likely be reduced to gross motor skills at best. It better be etched-in-stone muscle memory before that time comes.

    • Really? Do you kick every police officer you see bending over to tie his shoe?

      Douchebags be douchebaggin’

  5. Instructor Tim Morris threw down his gun — just to prove a point.

    What point was that? I thought firearms were supposed to be drop safe? Maybe something was wrong with his gun?

    • If he threw it down hard enough and it landed on the rear of the grip or slide it would have had enough momentum to pull he trigger.

      • California has been drop testing guns since 1991 (if I recall the year correctly). Guns are dropped in various attitudes (e.g. muzzle first, hammer first, etc.) from 14 feet onto a concrete slab.Gusn are loaded with a primed casing. If the gun fires, it fails. If the gun fails, it doesn’t make the roster. So if it is a gun first sold in California since that date, it is by definition drop safe and will only fire if it has been tampered with or is mechanically defective. 1911s usually have some sort of sear block (e.g. Series 80 Colts), and the Glock and Springfield have three internal (and the Springfield an additional external grip) safeties which should positively prevent such a discharge. The only new guns I have ever seen discharge under a similar circumstance were a pile of defective Tauruses sold to the Brazilian police.

        • Not to be nitpicking but the unique feature of a Series 80 include a firing pin block. 80, 70 and those before 70, and later 90 all have the sear block which is the thumb safety.

          The afterthought firing pin block causes a lot of extra timing issues on a gun already safe enough

    • Point: Real men abuse their livesaving gear.

      I heard it was because the ground was soft, and as the man stomped on the gun the trigger was pressed against its own crater and moved, then boom

      • That’s even more retarded than I thought. The round should have gone into the bottom of his foot instead of an innocent car.

      • That would do it. Guns are drop safe, not “put your foot on it and shove it around against unknown foreign objects safe.”

        • Even if the instructor did not apply his foot to the handgun, manufacturers do NOT market handguns as “whip them against the ground safe”.

  6. People who treat a loaded gun like it’s a soccer ball should not be training others. Just saying.

  7. Proof that there are indeed people who should, after proper and thorough deliberation, be relieved of their right to handle a firearm until such a time as they grow some brains. They can own all the guns they want, but they shouldn’t be allowed to play with them until they pass a gun safety course. And obviously that gun safety course should not be conducted by Tactical Response or its instructors.

    • Yes.
      It’s just that the “proper and thorough deliberation” part is practically impossible to achieve without incompetency and/or conspiracy, no matter who conducts it

    • Yeah, that particular marketing tactic earned him a disgusted third party. I didn’t watch it to hate him or give him any negative comments, more out of curiosity of hearing their side of things. It didn’t take him too long to get me on the side of “he’s a POS and probably lying” with such a crass and transparent tactic.
      His best move would have to simply admitted and accepted the mistake, corrected his procedures, and moved on. If they really want to show that the guns should be just treated as a tool, they should carefully clear them, remove the slide, then throw them into a tool box to bring to the range. When they say “Ok, everybody got your gun?” they could then follow up with “Oh, yeah, I have to get mine, hold on” then go get a toolbox, walk over into view, pull out the scratched and dented handgun, mate it with a slide and drop into their spiel. That would get the point across in a manner that wouldn’t risk an ND.

  9. Look up “Threw it on the ground” on youtube. This is how I prefer to imagine the scenario.

  10. If this was a pro gun – control video it would be the most effective one ever made.

  12. I bet that he forgot it was loaded. No one would be dumb enough to do that knowing the pistol is loaded and safety off. He has probably done this at class numerous times, but with gun unloaded. Personally, someone tells me to throw my strap on the ground, and smash it like a cigeratte butt, im laughing at them, and heading towards my vehicle.

    • He probably has done it a lot and he probably does it loaded thinking that it was ‘drop safe’ or whatever.

  14. Let’s speak the truth here,please. Mr Morris’ gun did not fire, Mr Morris fired his gun, there is a very significant difference.

  15. A genuine apology video shouldn’t be longer than the ad we have to sit through to watch it. And it DEFINITELY shouldn’t be 10 minutes long. What a jerk.

  16. Shit….anyone that ever had to scramble up into a 5 ton or in the field has been muzzled at some point. (cold war vet here)
    This doesn’t bother me as much as some.
    Glad no one was shot, should drop them with an empty chamber though)
    I carry con 1 around my family but always aware of where my barrel is pointing.
    I turn my weak side to my kids when they come in for hugs.
    Fn .45 da/sa safety on in a holster with full trigger coverage.
    Occasionally I’ll go con 2….
    I think yeager is just doing some quick venting over a potenial nasty situation and some internet bs….
    So what. Carry on and secure the scene.

  17. I took fighting pistol with tactical response, I remember the part of dropping your pistol in the dirt. The explanation for this, your in a gunfight, bam you just got hit in the hand (happens with high probability and proven during force on force training), now the training transitions to one handed manipulations. There was lots of emphasis on the mindset, your gun is a tool, no matter how much it costs. The instructor made a mistake, a lapse in judgement. I wasn’t there so I don’t know. I found the class informative, it’s up too you to decide for your self. I try to take what ever classes that come my way, and learn what I can.

    • I personally think they are doing a lot of fairly new gun owners a good service by emphasizing that
      1) guns are designed to be hard use tools that can take hard use/abuse in harsh environments. Not fine china.

      2) Gunfights, or any situation requiring anything resembling a “tactical response”, are messy, unpredictable, and shit happens. Heck, sometimes people even get shot….

      Of course there are right ways and wrong ways to do anything. I have no idea what actually took place at this particular class. But I wouldn’t dismiss the “concept” itself out of hand.

      If the instructors didn’t bother informing range management of the ND, that is pretty inexcusable, though. It’s tough enough to keep a range open in CA as it is.

    • How is intentionally damaging a lifesaving piece of gear helping you in any sense?

      If you drop the gun in a gunfight then so be it, that’s called normal wear and tear. At that moment you have no other choice but to drop it and then pick it up with another hand.

      But intentionally reducing the service life of something that you’ll need before you need it is plain and simple idiocy.

      The gun is a tool, a pretty important one at that.

      I dont see any mechanic smashing and stomping on that race car before a Grand Prix saying, it might get damaged anyway, now lemme add to it

      • The idea is likely not to help “you.” But rather those you train, some of whom may not be aware how abuse resistant modern service weapons really are. Leaning over until you are scraping metal off the footpegs and engine cases of your brand new $15K sport bike, doesn’t really help “you” either, but if you’re training newcomers to track riding, it’s one of the most effective ways to demonstrate how grippy modern sport bike tires really are.

  18. Thoughts:

    1. RF, you’re late to the party, but I still enjoy the blog.
    2. Morris put his foot on the gun after dropping it to the ground. Whether he stomped on it forcefully or, as Yeager suggests, lightly covered it with his foot seems to be up for debate.
    3. Yeager’s decision not to refund the money in this situation is a horrible business decision and par for the course as far as his decision making goes. I genuinely want to like the guy, but good grief.
    4. Yeager shamefully plays this off as no big deal. His assertion that he owes no one an apology is childish. He and his organization make all gun owners look like fools when he acts like this. The man lacks humility, accountability, and a healthy measure of common sense.
    5. His instructors should have notified range management immediately upon the ND. Failure to do so is disrespectful at a minimum. As soon as Yeager learned of the ND he should have contacted the range personally. I hope other ranges catch wind of this incident and ban Tactical Response from their facilities. Mistakes (as foolish as this one was) happen, but the failure to report the incident goes directly to the character and trustworthiness of the organization and its owner.

  19. Putting aside the fact this guy is a real outhouse Moron it does prove how unsafe striker fired weapons without manual safeties really are. I have seen other types of traditional weapons, double action old style, single action, double action only etc. dropped even on concrete accidentally NOT GO OFF. Although I would not recommend you deliberately drop any kind of a loaded weapon on purpose.

    • The ND had nothing to do with the gun being dropped. It was caused by the instructors actions, not the pistol being striker fired.

      • ​Wrong, way wrong. The Striker fired gun has nothing to keep the trigger from being tripped off, as I said before the trigger safety is a joke. The long hard traditional double action pull of even a revolver or say Sig P series would not have fired nor would have a 1911 with the manual safety engaged coupled with the grip safety.

  20. Jesus people.

    “Peeps who carry with an empty chamber are a-holes.”

    “Peeps who carry with one in the pipe are d-bags.”

    Can’t we all just get along like 40 normal people driving down the road not in the zombie apocalypse? Shoot me now.

  21. The cancer kids intro was beyond the pale. Has this jack wagon no shame?

    He’s also a liar. In his letter to the students, he described this instructor’s action as unauthorized, not allowed, not condoned, reckless, dangerous and negligent. Later, when countering people online claiming the instructor “curb stomped” the gun, he dismisses the online accounts of people who weren’t there or were there but are exaggerating. In so doing, he gives his own secondhand, non-eyewitness account of the incident and concedes that they do it [dropping the gun to demonstrate a point] “all the time.” Soooo………they do this unauthorized, not allowed, not condoned, reckless, dangerous and negligent thing “all the time” do they? Interesting.

    This clown really should be drummed out of the business. He’s a wannabe and a cringe worthy, walking, talking embarrassment.

  22. Striker fired guns without manual safeties will invariably snag the trigger when dropped and then fire off. The trigger safety simply does not work as intended. I often tell people who believe Glock propaganda etc. etc. to simply unload their Glock or Glock copy cat pistol making sure also the chamber is empty and clip is removed and then try and carry the gun without a holster or in a pocket or in a purse. At the end of the carry period it almost always shows the trigger was snagged and the striker ran forward and if loaded it would have fired. Putting the gun (unloaded of course but cocked) under a pillow will produce identical results as a female cop found out a few years ago. Luckily she was not killed.

    • Was he gun in question a Glock?

      I’ve found Glocks remarkably resistant to ADs of the sort you describe. The combination of a horizontally centered trigger safety, and a very wide trigger guard with an unusually small and tight opening, seems to block out by far most potentially snagging intrusions. The frame mounted safety on 1911s and such, are far more likely to get bumped off by casual handling than the comparatively well guarded trigger safety on a Glock. I wouldn’t pocket carry one sans holster, and it’s not as “safe” as a DA/SA or modern revolver, but the idea that they are some sort of fragile, hair triggered death device, just doesn’t at all jive with my experience.

        • 1911 – if you rock the firearm just right it will bypass it. using your trigger finger and thumb on the hammer, pull the trigger snap/tip the weapon forward and down.( your only touching the trigger and the hammer.) the grip safety goes in and the hammer falls. Now in reality this could not happen in your pocket but it might. Any safety can fail. DA/SA/DAO revolvers are my choice for CC.

        • They do. And, truth to be told, on a 1911 (or any gun with a traditional manual safety), rubbing off the safety won’t fire the gun. You’d need accidental pressure at two entirely separate points (3 actually, on actual 1911s)….. for that to happen. While on a Glock, taking the safety off and firing, is essentially one and the same thing.

          But I’m still amazed how “safe” Gaston and Co. managed to make what is operationally a gun designed to be carried around functionally cocked and unlocked.

    • “Clip removed”

      “Carry without a holster”

      The fact that you said these means that i’d be better served with Glock propaganda

    • Oooh not enough responses to your first post so let’s make another one with even more sketchy anecdotal evidence. You’re either a patient in a mental facility or a down-on-his-luck 1911 salesman…

  23. It sounds like no big deal to me. After all his gun was pointed at the berm… the truck was just in the way.

    I love how in one sentence he says Tim should of know better than to do this and its not like him, to we do this all the time.

    What a tool. He should be stomped into the dirt.

  24. Yeager might have a lot of skill and valuable training advice but his attitude and presentation is just horrendous.

    • His attitude and presentation are my favorite attributes. He makes me laugh. He seems to draw his response from internet trolls and keyboard commandos. Rather than go into a long politically correct explanation of why what someone just said was idiotic, he just says, “come take a class and see if you think that” and then says “if you still think that way after my class then you are an idiot”. We all know there are a lot of idiots on the internet. Yeager calls them out so that “makes gun people look bad”. Whatever. I am entertained by it all. Being new to guns but not new to logic, I look for logic in anything anyone tells me. I don’t agree with everything Yeager says but I find 99% of what he teaches to have a great deal of logic. Number one being, get off the X.

  25. James Yeager sucks. And IS a coward.

    Training is crucial. But I’ll be damned if I’m not getting little fatigued from “tactical” training. I just want to get better with my revolver at this point.

    I know, I know. Good training is needed.

  27. OMG, the FLAGGERS!
    “Never Point The Gun At Something You Are Not Prepared To Destroy”

    A PROPERLY HOLSTERED modern firearm is not being pointed. You have no more reason to fear for the safety of your child hugging your leg than you do for the safety of your toes and everyone else’s. “Someone bending over to tie their shoe instead of squatting”; you’re going to kick their ass? If they don’t shoot you in self-defense then I hope you like jail…

    It’s truly cringe-worthy to see supposedly right-minded people abandon common sense for their little pet issues they so love to look down their nose and wag their fingers at others for.

  30. His actions and his video should convince every one to go elsewhere for training….anyone checked his creds and has he been drug tested????

  31. Nobody can shirk responsibility like Yeager. Negligent, reckless and dismissive. “We have shot gazillion rounds during our classes and only killed one truck”. Really? Then hides behind the “gun community”, …cause wheee have to stick together? Because defending negligence makes the gun community better? Then he makes up two asinine reasons to drop guns in class because in gun fights people get shot in their hands, and you won’t drop your gun on command when surrounded by squad cars on a slow Thursday night? Perhaps the class should be conducted without eyes and ears, since you probably won’t have your Peltors with you in the real world while your getting shot in your hands and refusing to drop your gun when the police come. With all the effective, safe and responsible training classes available, what could TR offer that would make anyone consider them?

    • Their high-level courses focusing on tactics and mindset are quite good. Been there done that. Definitely worth the money. They just have NO CLUE regarding gun handling (i.e. They reload and clear malfunctions the wrong way among some others). They suck at shooting, excel at fighting.

      My last name is not Yeager

  32. Accidentally scrolled down to the comments on YouTube…and they’re overwhelmingly supportive of him. I thought it would be the opposite…

  33. Nothing to see here…..move on……..it is a known quantity, and this YOU know…..stop the “white-folk-ism” and mind your own damn business!!!! In this, you have a choice……to think and be safe……or not…….something must always fail to learn from it….and it failed…..so take your fears and your “what could have happened”, but didn’t…..and move on……good Lord, most people are just bored……TO DEATH!!!! 🙂

  34. Apology? Why do you need one?

    They messed up due to poor thinking about the point.

    They compounded the problem by not reporting it to the range.

    This tells me that their instructors need adult supervision.

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