danatdesk2

Today is the first day Texas lawmakers can file bills for consideration in the upcoming legislative session. Of the 123 bills filed as of 9am, Rep Daniel Flynn‘s is the only one focusing on open carry. [Click here to read the text.] As expected, the OC bill merely adds unconcealed carry to the CHL (concealed handgun license) provisions. The issue has hit the Lone Star State’s media radar. The initial reports are about as biased as you’d expect . . .

“I support if anyone wants to let’s call it ‘Open Carry’ on their side hip or whatever with a handgun I support that by all means,” CHL instructor Hector Camacho told myfoxaustin.com. “But I don’t suggest it, ok? They can grab that gun, knock you out, take that gun away from you, shoot you with it, knock you out or use it on somebody else.”

Camacho – a man who’s apparently never heard of a retention holster – gets almost all the ink. And then, on the positive side . . .

“We support both rights, we support the right to concealed carry and the right to open carry. We think it’s unethical for the state to profit off a person’s ability to defend themselves. So we’re pushing for both without a permit,” legislative director for Come and Take it Texas Justin Delosh told the news channel.

Licensed open carry still seems far more likely than Constitutional carry. Speaking for my fellow Texans, we’ll [come] and take it. And then push for more.

[h/t DH]

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92 COMMENTS

    • The gun-controllers’ ceaseless irony regarding “hate” is stunning.

      If Progressives took the same approach to race or sex that they take with open carry, then they should be advocating for Jim Crow laws and raids on homosexuals.

      What’s their argument?

      Seeing an open-carry gun make people “uncomfortable” and “fearful.”

      The Establishment and Ruling Class are always looking for the next bogeyman to gin up fear so they can consolidate power and control.

      And the old-guard media are happy to play along in marginalizing a segment of society…helps them sell advertising and feel superior.

      Right now in America, it’s Christians, men, gun owners that are being targeted.

      It’s a case of musical chairs. Somebody has to be out.

      Welcome to the Progressive Zero-Sum Game.

      • I really hate it when somebody attempts to conflate true civil rights with a disgusting perversion in order to try and legitimize it. Homosexuality is a crime against God and nature and always will be.

        • One person’s “true” civil rights is another’s “disgusting perversion”. Either we live in a free society with limited government intrusion on citizen’s personal lives or live in a less free one where arbitrary discrimination against minorities (whether it be race, religion, sexual orientation, or gun ownership) is legislatively sanctioned.

          If you think homosexuality is disgusting, then don’t play with the genitalia of the same sex, but don’t demand that your personal choice be mandated for everyone. Likewise if someone hates firearms, they are free not to own one, but their fears shouldn’t be used as justification for limiting other’s access.

          In a free society, the government needs to stay out of free citizens bedrooms as well as their gun safes.

        • AndrewinDC, A-frikkin’-men. So tired of those who purport to support freedom, but it’s just so much more “my way or the highway”.

  2. Sounds like Hector Camacho would fit right in at an Every Town/MDA tupperware party. Perhaps he should push for mandatory CC for all the cops in Texas. People just grab guns out of open holsters all the time you know.

  3. It’s like the dude has never heard of a retention holster. Or is there some epidemic of bad guys stealing guns from cops that I wasn’t aware of?

    • She’s already on the agenda for SXSW in the spring, which will be around committee hearing time. I’m sure she’ll try to make a cameo.

      • Photo Bomb time! All POTG attending SXSW should line up to get a photo with Shannon, and RF can set up a photo gallery.

        Please have an “I (heart) GUNS” t-shirt under a button down shirt that you can open for the photo. :^)

  6. Why does that name, Hector Comacho, sound familiar? Wasn’t there a boxer by that name a few years ago… or something?

    Also, if this passes, I’ll open carry for a while but I bet the novelty will wear off pretty quickly. Once it does, I’ll revert to concealed… unless I’m around my hoplophobe brother, of course!

      • President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho, porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion!!!!

        -IMDB

    • The problem is people thinking open carry is just a novelty and it’s simply a matter of tucking/untucking a shirt to carry a gun the “right” way while walking down the street.

      Some situations are simply more convenient to open carry, perhaps due to the type of clothing or other equipment one must wear when carrying out certain tasks. It’s all good to conceal your firearm, but if you can’t get to it because your backpack, utility belt, protective gear, etc. is in the way, then what’s the point of carrying at all?

    • If that’s the case, then he is speaking from beyond the grave. Hector “Macho” Camacho died about 2 years ago in a drive-by shooting incident. I wouldn’t give too much relevance to what his ghost has to say about open carry pros and cons, but I would love to hear his opinion in the .45 vs 9mm argument.

  7. Why does everybody assume it’s one or the other? I plan on doing both, at least for the rest of our exceedingly short winter down here in south Houston. Wear a coat that goes over the holster- concealed carry. Take off my coat and sit down – open carry. It’s not like I’m going to stick with one all day.

    • My buddy in Wisconsin refers to what you just described as “casual carry”, if it shows so what, if it’s concealed so what

      • This is the whole reason I want OC, so I can do what your friend describes as “casual carry”. Even the best IWB holsters aren’t nearly as comfortable as any OWB holster, especially in San Antonio summertime.

        To be able to have a OWB retention holster for my full-size M&P 9 and not have to be so self-conscience as to whether or not I’m printing all the time would feel so good. No more having to reach for my wallet all funny, or remember to reach up for things with my left hand instead, or remember to not bend over when wearing a t-shirt… ahh, what relief, I can imagine it now…

      • That’s exactly what I would do.

        Incidentally, the legislation filed is a good enough regex search/replace, but it would be nice to see some anti-SWATting protections added to penalize people who falsely harrass OCers using police reports. If they bear false witness against someone who’s carrying, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for harrassment and wasting police time and money.

    • Thanks for pointing out the TLO site. I like to go on there and set up email alerts for actions on the bills I’m interested in.

  9. “never heard of a retention holster”

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA You’re funny. A retention holster is a very incomplete fix to this, for the following reasons:

    1) Anyone who wants to steal your gun has got the advantage of surprise. Sure, you can stay situationally aware, but you’re human, so really it’s going to be easier than you think. Also, if working in pairs, they can easily have one member distract you while the other goes for your gun.

    2) Anyone who wants to steal your gun need only look at your holster for a few seconds to see what type of retention it is, and if they know the holster model, some are easy to defeat (such as the Blackhawk, and all pressure-type retention types, to name a few). You’re showing them what you use, so they need only look at it to deduce how to proceed.

    But thanks for assuming that republican doesn’t understand retention holsters. Neither of us know if this person understands retention holsters or not, so it’s an assumption. Much less, his concerns aren’t eliminated with a retention holster. I recommend retention holsters, but ultimately there’s no complete fix.

    I still recommend that people carry concealed. Not only does it (if done right) keep surprise on your side rather than the bad guy’s, it mostly prevents people stealing what they don’t know you have. I am not against open carry, but I strongly prefer concealed for the above reasons. I replied because you made a glaring assumption without information.

    • Other than cops in every state, there are several states which allow open or concealed carry with or without a license. How about you quote for us how many OC carriers have been assaulted and their guns stolen, in the history of the planet? Not even discussing retention holsters, in ANY holster. Should I OC someday, and someone comes at me for my gun, I would shoot him. I think most criminals would be able to guess that, and go find someone unarmed to rob.

      You are quoting a scary story advocated by the grabbers with no basis in fact.

      • I support open carry in Texas. I will likely carry openly if the law passes in addition to carrying concealed.

        That said cops are shot with their own guns a large % of the times they are shot while on duty.

        That said open carry has it’s place. I’m self employed and spend a lot of time driving. I will likely carry o

      • I support open carry in Texas. I will likely carry openly if the law passes in addition to carrying concealed.

        That said cops are shot with their own guns a large % of the times they are shot while on duty.

        That said open carry has it’s place. I’m self employed and spend a lot of time driving. I will likely carry openly when working many times. Esp in the summer. I’ll also likely open carry if camping, hicking, etc.

    • The aliens with X-Ray vision already know I’m carrying concealed, so when they want to come for my gun, I’m screwed anyway, amirite?

      Unless someone can come up with a documented example of someone stealing a gun from a non-LEO OCing, then I’m putting “they might take your gun” in with “inspect your kids Halloween candy” and “don’t use your cell phone when you pump gas” urban legends.

      And no, wandering around with an unloaded .22 doesn’t count.

      Personally, I have lots of good reasons to CC instead of OC, but I will OC if I want to make a statement that I’m not an easy target. (OC has been legal in my state for as long as the Stars & Stripes have waved here, FWIW.) I felt insecure on a remote trail around dusk recently and switched to OC so if I came around the bend to see some hostiles, they’d know that I’m not an easy victim. You choose your own carry method as you like.

  10. Does the bill allow open carry of long guns in urban areas? It may be something to finesse if the votes aren’t there otherwise.

    • IMHO they would do better just to leave long guns alone. Right now the law says nothing specifically about them, meaning we essentially have “constitutional carry” of long guns here, at least in concept. Maybe some kind of state “pre-emption” law would be useful, but otherwise leave long guns alone.

    • Right now, about 250 bills have been filed. Reps Flynn and White have filed identical bills. Either or neither, depending on what else is filed in next few months may be the bill that is actually considered in committee. This is day one of filing for a session two months away still.

      Of note, Sen West filed a bill to make it illegal to illegally purchase or transfer a firearm. I guess that makes it REALLY illegal.

  11. I think overall small risk that someone would take a gun off Open Carry. Have not read about a rash of incidents in other parts of the Country with Open Carry.
    Anyway It should be my choice to open carry or not. Plus would have .38 LCR concealed in pocket even if I choose to open carry, as backup.
    CHL instructor Hector Camacho may just be concerned that if Open Carry w/CHL eventually becomes Open Carry w/o a CHL, that would be a real buzz kill for the added income generated now?

    • Yep, DPS and the CCL instructors both have financial incentive to oppose any form of “constitutional carry”. And given the experience with “Administrative License Revocation” for drivers accused of DWI, it appears that DPS is something of a force to be reckoned with in Texas politics.

    • My hope would be that “OC with CHL” would become “OC or CC without CHL”, follow 2A and call it a day.

      • Yeah CHL will become “Permit to carry a handgun, method left to user discretion”. Or maybe they will go with a tiered system? (god I hope they dont) where it is easier/harder to get one or the other kind of like the old revolver/semi auto qualification requirement. Semi auto qualification meant you could carry either or. Revolver quali meant you could only carry a revolver (it was a lower tier). This was removed in 2013 as unnecessary but I wouldn’t be shocked if someone tries to amend it so that you basically have to get two different licenses or something else idiotic.

  12. Flynn’s a good guy. Let’s get this passed and signed, get some novelty carrying going on, familiarize people with the sight of self defense firearms in public, then move on to additional firearm freedoms.

  13. I’m strongly in favor of constitutional carry but, I agree with Robert, that licensed open carry is a good first step: you take your wins when you can get them. Interesting how Camacho (I sure as hell won’t take a class from that guy . . .) immediately politicized the issue with his comments about people “taking” guns from open carriers. In this we have a new gun-grabber meme: Private citizens openly carrying firearms are so incompetent that they can’t be trusted to be seen carrying guns. Only people with “special” state sanctioned status, i.e., the police or other government officials, can be trusted to openly carry guns. As if.

    Open carry should mean open carry. You shouldn’t be faced with arrest or harassment for simply walking down a road with handgun or rifle in plain view.

  14. I agree. All of the arguments for or against OC as a tactic are irrelevant here. This is a matter of RKBA and should become law. The experience in OC states does not support (surprise, surprise) the doomsday scenarios various antis of all flavors dispense. Nevertheless, personal preferences, suitability for occasions, etc. really have no bearing, anyway. This instructor does us all a disservice by conflating the Constitutional with the personal.

  15. Permitted OC is the wrong piece of legislation…it is however, the SAFE piece of legislation for a Pol to back, so he is coming out of the gate with it to look good…that is all.

    “Speaking for my fellow Texans, we’ll [come] and take it. And then push for more.”

    As a native Texan, I say speak for yourself. Having Permitted OC would be the prefect excuse to not give in to a “push for more”.

    • Well, I say, following the lead of the opposition, it’s a good first step. And the perfect excuse is still “for the children” or maybe “we have to do something (even if it’s wrong)”

    • Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. The perfect is the enemy of the good. Pick your expression, but the reality is that the antis already oppose us, already push against further freedom, and already want to roll back rights.

      Why not move the chains downfield some, if it’s not in exchange for giving up something else right now? The antis will be no less adamant later on and their arguments will make no more sense or carry any more force than they do now.

      Politics, like football, does produce the occasional Big Play, but mostly it’s a game of inches. Expand the freedom now and keep fighting tomorrow.

    • I disagree. Other states have gone from permitted concealed carry to no permit required. Once people get used to being around open carry and the police get used to it also then it will be easier to slowly chip away at the permit requirements until we et constitutional carry.
      . Also Texas will still want to issue permits to allow us to comply with carry laws in other states , federal laws that exempt permit holders from certain restrictions to carrying at schools etc and also to allow us to buy firearms from an FFL without background checks.
      How about a law requiring DPS to sign off as CLEO on apllications for NFA regulated items for people with CHL permits.

  16. “…They can grab that gun, knock you out, take that gun away from you, shoot you with it, knock you out or use it on somebody else.”

    If someone happens to knock me down after stealing my open carry sidearm, I just go to my concealed carry and fire back.

    A silly scenario always requires a silly retort.

    • Thank you. I would leave the conceal and carry portion alone for right now (just because I think the bill would have a better chance of passing), but I am 100% onboard as far as rights go.

      http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLookup/History.aspx?LegSess=84R&Bill=HB195

      “Relating to the carrying of handguns; providing for the open carrying of handguns; removing the requirement that a person who may lawfully possess handguns obtain a Concealed Handgun License in order to carry a handgun lawfully in the state of Texas, and conforming changes.”

  18. I’m for this, but I want campus carry, too. It came close to passing last time. There’s no reason TX should be behind so many other states on open carry and campus carry.

      • The hospital carry law changed a while back, if you see 30.06 at a hospital it’s a property rights posting, not prohibited place posting.

        But, I have yet to see 30.06 not posted at hospital. So, let’s just get rid of 30.06 and we can knock it all out.

        • Hospitals can be tricky places even without 30.06 signs. Many are university-affiliated. Some may have corrections department wings. Even if none of the above, there could happen to be a school-sponsored event there that day (read: field trip) and now you have that law to abide by.

  19. I would like to see TX get open carry, but I don’t want to see it tied to CHL. My concern is if the two are tied together, then 30.06 signs will be used to stop open carry in businesses. I don’t want to see a lot of valid 30.06 signs going up to block the people that want to open carry.

    We need open carry that is not tied to CHL.

    I would also like to see no penalty for open or concealed carry to any public business. Violating a company policy is different than breaking the law. If a property owner does not want you there, they can ask you to leave. If you don’t, you are trespassing.

    • 30.06 specifically mentions “conceal firearms” being prohibited… So, they would have to changed the wording of 30.06, as well as the other legal issues, otherwise you could say, “But, it’s not concealed…”

    • This right here.

      Open carry scares sheep. Scared sheep put up 30.06 signs. This disarms law abiding citizens. Or risk a class A misdemeanor and loss of carry. The majority of businesses in Chicago put up their little gun buster stickers. Texas is clearly different than Chicago. The point still remains valid for scared sheep in Texas.

      To the poster on the 30.06 sign remaining unchanged, go read the bill:

      Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY
      CONCEALED OR UNCONCEALED HANDGUN.

      It seems like many are excited about open carry but ignore the tactical/practical disarmament fact of 30.06 from scared business owners or scared customers that complain.

      • Much to do, about nothing. OC isn’t going to cause a spike in 30.06 postings. Its not like there are only a small number of people walking around with CHLs, there are THOUSANDS, upon THOUSANDS. Any business in Texas that doesn’t have one posted now, will unlikely post one if it passes.

        • 3%ish of Texans have CHL; 97% dont. So yes thousands upon thousands do, while millions upon tens of millions do not. Percentages work better.

        • 242,000 CHLs issued last calendar year alone………………….

          And all of Texas is NOT Austin. Remember, we are a RED state.

  20. When we have S. Africa II, with the Mexicans coming across our border, (and by that I mean that all we’re lacking is a UN resolution saying we are discriminating in a non-humanitarian way and that our country is not our own). People won’t be able to buy enough guns/ammo/bottled water/baby wipes/ ramen noodles/protein bars/cleaning kits, etc., etc., etc.,

    Don’t let us catch anyone defending anti-gunners (or their position) then.

    • To be fair, I like the idea that people receive a modicum of training in the operation, legalities (criminal and civil liability) and doctrine of handguns prior to carrying them around. OC with permit is a compromise I can live with, though I’d also like to see federal preemption/protection of interstate carry if a trusted minimum training regimen could be developed into a passport/driver’s license endorsement.

      • IMHO, if you carry a gun, you’re an idiot for not doing some training WITHOUT BEING TOLD/REQUIRED TO. It’s like riding a motorcycle. You’re an idiot if you don’t use a helmet, but the state shouldn’t be involved in that decision.

        • I agree with the Dr. It’s a compromise I can live with. People have the right to be idiots, and should have the freedom to OC or CC in order to protect themselves. But like most freedoms, they should not infringe on other people’s freedoms. I feel the state has an obligation to protect it’s citizens from potential idiots that choose to not educate themselves on how to properly carry a firearm. I feel this is similar to how you must prove you are capable of driving on a road without endangering other’s lives. If it was just about these idiots accidentally shooting themselves then so be it. But that isn’t the case. People carry to be protected. But how do you protect yourself against some other idiot that has no purpose carrying that accidentally discharges their weapon because they never bothered to learn basic safety or operation?

    • Not anymore, but you still can’t carry OWB and will likely get a stern talking-to if you do and your outer garment rides up.

      And in Austin, pinkos WILL SWAT you because feels. Best to nip that shit in the bud with stern penalties for bad-faith SWATters.

      • I carry OWB 100% of the time, and have never had an issue resulting from accidental exposure, and I know its happened many times. I even had one LEO ask me where I got my holster, after he politely told me I was showing, after grabbing a bag of ice.

        • Not in Austin I take it? 🙂

          Certain folks of the brain-damaged pinko persuasion tend to get their panties in a bunch if they see that sort of thing…

  23. As presented, it still requires a state-issued license to carry either openly or concealed, so it remains a privilege rather than a right. Plus, it requires the handgun to be carried in either a shoulder or belt holster – no so-called Mexican carry permitted.

    • Holsters are certainly a good idea. Does current law not allow deep concealment , ankle, thigh or bra holsters?

  24. I hope this gets passed in Texas. To open-carry, or not: it has been a big distraction for pro-2nd amendment cause.
    1) The issue has divided the 2nd amendment groups.
    2) It’s allowed ammo for Mrs. Watts in her crusade to demonize and slander the gun-culture
    (do you think she cares guns are not really banned at Target, when she made inroads into “guns=bad” to the general public?).
    3) It’s a distraction. While pushing or defending open-carry, Watts and gang have slowly become more organized and finding new ways of spending money. Here in Oregon, they must have had about 5 “special guests” (i.e. victims and faces of the gun-control movement) show up for voter canvasing.

  25. So nearing the end of day 1:

    HB106 (Flynn) and HB164 (White) add hand gun OC to existing CHL statutes.

    HB195 (Strickland) is Constitutional Carry

    HB176 (Kleinschmidt) Texas 2A. Basically invalidates Federal firearms laws…might see some resistance from DC on this one.

    HB206 (Leach) Tax Free on hunting supplies during annual tax free weekend.

    HB198 (Huberty) School Board carry for me, not for thee…allows school boards to carry during public meetings, but not public.

    HB92 (White) removes Bowie knives from list of illegal knives for public carry (TTAK) interests

    HB216 (White) reduces CHL age from 21 to 18.

    SB124 (West) Making things already illegal, illegal. Again.

    As a note, no OC bills have been filed in the Senate. Co-Sponsorship or a companion bill in the upper house have historically helped the success. This is only the first day.

    • HB226, filed by Rep Guillen, basically prevents prevents government entities from prohibiting CHL holders from carrying in gov’t buildings using 30.06 provisions. Carry while attending public meetings is still prohibited. It also attaches punitive fines for lack of compliance.

  27. Constitutional carry WITHOUT A PERMIT is the ONLY acceptable solution. Requiring a permit means the government is still under the impression that it’s a privilege instead of a right. If Arizona can do it, Texas sure as hell can do it.

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