“The next tussle over Texas’ new open carry law is likely to come over one of its more mundane requirements: signs,” dallasnews.com conjects. Erroneously. Sorry guys, but this one’s a done deal. Come January 1, Texas businesses that wish to ban concealed carry will have to update their 30.06 signs (with mandatory 1″ tall letters in contrasting colors, prominently displayed at the entrance of a business) to conform to the new law, which changes the wording from “concealed handgun” [as above] to “handgun.” But wait! That’s not all . . .
And with the passage of the open carrying of guns, business owners who want to ban guns will instead have to post two new large signs instead of one . . .
The “30.07” open carry sign — which features the same kinds of requirements as the 30.06 sign — had been expected . . .
Requirements for the signs that businesses must post if they want to bar the open carrying of handguns:
— Must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height.
— Must be in both English and Spanish.
— Must be displayed in a “conspicuous manner” at the property’s entrance.
— Must say: “Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly.”
Again, businesses wishing to ban both concealed and open carry by law-abiding Texans will have to display TWO signs. Prominently. I call that a win, in the sense that the law puts a big ass scarlet letter on “gun free zones.” That said, Lone Star State business owners can simply ask open or concealed carriers to leave the premises, under force of law.
But the really good news: the Texas legislature has reduced carrying a firearm – openly or concealed – in contravention of the law from a Class A misdemeanor (punishable by up to one year in jail, a fine of up to $4,000, or both jail time and a fine) to a Class C (punishable by a fine of up to $500, no jail time). This is especially helpful for concealed carriers who feel it necessary to break the law for their own protection.
It’s hardly ideal, but the new signage laws and reduced gun possession charges are a good thing, not a bad thing. IMHO.
I see it as doubling the chances of spotting a business not to do business with!
Good thinking!
My thought exactly
I don’t go to businesses with gun free signs, they don’t have force of law but not leaving when asked is trespassing, the reason is more of a boycott. Anyone that wants to seperate me from my rights is not deserving of my hard earned cash. I actually make a point to not even grace the USPS, although my wife occasionally does.
As I saw suggested on another site, someone who’s a good artist needs to come up with a “Like shooting fish in a barrel” sticker that we can put next to signs like this to maybe make a light bulb go on for those folks that are still willing to actually *think* about the issue.
O2
I like the idea, but the businesses would probably charge you with graffiti or destruction of property…
Not if they’re vinyl and leave no residue.
There doesn’t have to be any permanent damage for an eager prosecutor to charge you with something like “criminal mischief”. It’s a misdemeanor just to “cause substantial inconvenience” to someone or their business.
There’s a law criminalizing just about any behavior you want to think of, if a DA wants to pursue it…
There must be a sign next to the open hand permits we accept reliability of entering this building we protect you and that we are responsible for any serious injuries
Yes I like that sounds like it’s a good opportunity for us to be protected
I think some might be willing to take it as a threat, and then you’d be on the defensive to explain yourself. No one wants to be accused of making terroristic threats.
How about this?? https://www.etsy.com/listing/166098930/
I’d be willing to bet this changes next session (85th Lege). TX Association of Business (TAB) wields a pretty big stick. They aren’t anti-gun per se, but are against having to display two signs. I would expect a bill (bills) to be filed to make a single 30.06/30.07 sign.
Just keep an eye on Illinois where Democrats reign supreme and have ruined absolutely everything they have touched. They were forced by the courts to pass concealed carry legislation 2-3 years ago. Business must put up “NO GUNS” signage at their doors if they don’t want law abiding people to do business with them. Now there are a few Democrats (oops – Socialists) who want to reverse the signage – if businesses want law abiding people with CC weapons to come in, the stores would have to put up signage stating that guns are welcome. How many are going to do that? Not many I would guess. If this ever happens in Illinois or any other state, you can kiss concealed carry into businesses bye bye! As a side note – I will have to say that after the CC law was passed, one prominent restaurant in a busy commercial area posted a sign next to the road that firearms were welcome in the business. That was nice of them and I will never forget it (as long as I am able to remember things, that is).
Question: Let’s say you’re carrying concealed, in a business with both signs posted, when Joe comes in with a gun in his hand to discuss his old lady’s infidelity. You pull iron and ventilate him. If the manager asks you to leave, are you illegally trespassing if you stay, or fleeing the scene if you leave?
You would be excused from the possible Class B misdemeanor trespass by the necessity of sticking around til the po-po arrive to sort things out, I expect. I also expect no manager is going to ask anyone to leave after a shooting, He’ll be too busy calling the po-po himself or herself.
Or too busy cleaning the poo-poo off of himself!
There is a clause called “necessity” in most states’ laws that said if you broke a law because it was necessary, then you won’t be charged with breaking said law. However, in this case, you were already breaking the law, so you could still end up in trouble. I think where you are at and who the DA/prosecutor are makes a big difference, too.
Question: How do you know Joe is not a law abiding citizen exercising his right to carry, just like you? Maybe he’s mad but has no deadly intent. Unless you are going to wait until he lets his wife have a taste of his lead (no, that’s not a euphemism), I’d say you are taking a big risk pulling iron. Thoughts?
I certainly hope all you Texans who carry weapons refuse to do business with knucklehead businesses who post their entrances for “NO GUNS”; however, I recognize some places like hospitals and government buildings are hard to avoid. Let those anti-gun businesses know you refuse to do business with them. Send them receipts for goods that otherwise might have been purchased there. Living in the corrupt and bankrupt state of Illinois (where governors are routinely sent to prison), I often let businesses know that I think their stores are unsafe if posted for “NO GUNS” and let them know I will not do business with them until the signs come down.
“I recognize some places like hospitals and government buildings are hard to avoid.”
Government buildings are forbidden by law to post 30.06/30.07 signs. A new law also provides for fines for those who do.
you guys have also had a good run at sending Congressmen to jail (Mel Reynolds, Jesse Jr.) – keep up the good work 🙂
Hello old friend. Sure miss our good ole fun days. ?
Why are you such a hater?
Do you not give one ounce of an iota regarding the safety of people in convenience stores or liquor stores?
How about bars or clubs? Do you think guns in bars or clubs is OK?!
I mean, why do you think you need to carry everywhere you go?
Me. I am a gun owner. But, I don’t think it is a must to have to where my gun EVERYWHERE I go .
I supervise in convenience stores and I do keep my gun on me while in the stores I run but convenience stores are known for getting robbed all the Time .
I believe in the right to arm yourselves but I also believe people can take it to an extreme.
People like you. Refusing to go into a place of business without your fire arm.
Sounds somewhat paranoid to me. I mean, come on, really?
SMDH!
“Do you not give one ounce of an iota regarding the safety of people in convenience stores or liquor stores?”
Of course! That is WHY I feel compelled to carry a firearm in those establishments — to ensure my AND their safety.
“How about bars or clubs? Do you think guns in bars or clubs is OK?!”
Certainly, as long as the carrier remains sober.
“I mean, why do you think you need to carry everywhere you go?”
If I knew when I was about to become a victim of a violent crime, I’d only carry then. Otherwise, all the time just makes sense.
“Me. I am a gun owner. But, I don’t think it is a must to have to where my gun EVERYWHERE I go .
I supervise in convenience stores and I do keep my gun on me while in the stores I run but convenience stores are known for getting robbed all the Time .”
Exactly! Why on earth would you NOT want an honest, law-abiding citizen to be able to come to your aid if you were being beaten to death in your own store? I imagine that I would like to have a friendly stranger with a weapon of his or her choice to lend a hand in an emergency.
“I believe in the right to arm yourselves but I also believe people can take it to an extreme.
People like you. Refusing to go into a place of business without your fire arm.”
Has it occurred to you that if one were so inclined as to do bodily harm to another, they might actually SEEK OUT establishments that ban their customers from the ability to defend themselves with firepower? If I were a criminal, I sure wouldn’t go mug the sheriff in his office…. I’d likely go to my local H.E.B, or any of the other ‘firearm averse’ establishments making themselves known through the posting of high contrast signage.
“Sounds somewhat paranoid to me. I mean, come on, really?”
Yes, really.
“SMDH!”
Well, don’t hurt yourself.
When second count, police are minutes away.
It is a clearly written Constitutional right backed up by at least 3 SCOTUS rulings on individual right to bear arms. (unless some other protected classes who are not even codified in the Constitution.)
I’m Sure you have done the research…
How many people with a registered firearm and a concealed carry permit has broke in to establishments and robbed them or committed a crime?
Wait a minute, I’ve lived in Texas all my life, I was a misdemeanor prosecutor for about 10 years, and at least up til about 3 years ago (when I got out of the law biz) unlawfully carrying a handgun was always a misdemeanor (Class A, up to a year in county jail). When did it become a felony?
My bad. Text amended.
The fine is only $200 for violation of 30.06…
If you’re going to post “legal articles”, you should make sure you have your facts straight first. 30.06 does not have to be posted at the entrance of a business. It simply has to be posted in a “conspicuous manner”. That could be inside the establishment.
OTOH, 30.07 must be posted at the entrance.
Is the law lowering illegal carry of a handgun to a class C misdemeanor for people with out a chl carrying in public or those with a chl that carry in a business with a 30.06 or 30.07 sign.
Sorry, but it only covers those with their permit who carry past the signs. If you don’t have your permit, you are still carrying illegally and can get in big trouble.
Penalty reduced from a 3rd degree felony to a class C misdaminer for carrying inside a secure area of an airport. Not aware of any reductions for other areas. Could you show me this law?
This is a “good” thing in the same sense that it is “good” that a rapist reduces his raping from 3 times a month to once a month.
Are you one of those guys who carried an AR into the Chipotle and yelled at the soccer moms? If so, the liberals loved that because it helped them to get constitutional carry laws shutdown in Texas. The anti-gun libs ran right to their media pals, and whined and cried, and the media made sure the politicians wouldn’t vote for open carry without a permit.
Question for all, if a business displays the 30.07 sign but not the 30.06 would you still avoid the business? Maybe they prefer to not have to deal with hysterical customers or just feel that open carry is counter to the business atmosphere they are cultivating. They aren’t anti-gun they may just not see open carry as conducive to their business.
I’d expect 30.07 by itself to be the most common configuration for that very reason. It keeps today’s state of affairs as-is. Someone who thinks of himself as pro-gun but worries about his customers’ atittudes has an “easy way out” this way, and they will employ that logic. That lets the hoplophobes be in their usual out-of-sight, out-of-mind mental state, but he hasn’t squashed self-defense completely.
I would expect 30.06 by itself to be extremely rare. Oh, maybe some truly hard core Open Carrier will try to require everyone to open carry or not at all in his store. (That’s a joke, guys, settle down.)
How many places will post both signs? I don’t know. It may be more than the number who post 30.07 only. It’d be an intersting survey to take but who’s going to want to spend the money?
Good question. As a practical matter, I doubt many will open carry, anyway, and that few will post a 30.07 sign at all, just like 30.06 signs are rare. The legally trivial ghostbusters signs are more common than actual 30.06 signs, and even those are very uncommon.
More likely, an open carrier may be asked politely to cover up, as a courtesy, not as an outright mandate, and few signs will ever go up. Where you may see them is where there are existing 30.06 signs, of course.
In my experience, those are more common at office buildings or other work facilities not generally open to or frequented by the public, anyway.
I agree that most owners will just do a 30.07 sign. There will be a few who try to create their own combined 30.06/30.07 signs but whatever.
I believe TAB will push for a smaller ghostbuster sign next session, and the compromise will end up being the current format but combined.
I’ve also heard unconfirmed rumor that the Gov might be open to constitutional carry if comes to his desk.
What if you only can read Arabic or Farsi? I call that discrimination. 🙂
It becomes a welcome sign for robbers. Plus it takes a huge space and is ugly. Makes business look like jerks.
So, this doesn’t apply to anyone without a license… so can a criminal even be charged with breaking this statute (in addition to all the other charges that would go along with something like robbery)?
No, the criminal would not be charged under this particular statute. He could be charged under the general “unlawfully carrying a weapon” statute, which carries a higher penalty anyway.
It doesn’t matter if it’s in a place that’s posted “no guns” or not, carrying a gun in public without a license is a crime in Texas.
A handgun, that is.
Are all business men whiners or just the big ones who have spent 100’s of thousands on aesthetic entryways? In Minnesota the business groups ASKED for the signs. We have it on tape (forever in the state archives).
Must Uber drivers put these signs on their cars?
The Texas legislature provided Uber with a special carveout. A simple bumper sticker that reads “Carjack me” will suffice.
You beat me to it. The Class A misdemeanor is was (presently still is) can get you a fine up to $4,000 and/or up to 180 days in jail.
The Class C misdemeanor it will be gets you a punishment at the judge’s discretion. Could be a fine up to $500, or could be probation, deferred adjudication, maybe even have to wear a sandwich sign outside the business that reads “I will not trespass while armed again.”
State Judge Poe, now Houston area Congressman Poe, used to hand out some unconventional punishments sometimes.
Small correction: Class A is up to a year jail time, up to $4k fine; Class B is up to 180 days jail, up to $2k fine; Class C is fine-only, up to $500. In any criminal case, even felonies deferred adjudication (except for DWIs) or “regular” probation are options, at the judge’s discretion (within certain limits for deferred, eg you have to plead “guilty” to get deferred adjudication).
You’re right, Class A is up to a full year. It’s Class B that is only up to 180 days.
A first conviction for either one, though (and it would almost by definition be a first conviction if you have a valid CHL), means you’ll you’re a great candidate for probation or less. So potential confinement periods are almost moot.
In my opinion, it is not so much that one is breaking the law by entering a posted premises with a hand gun but that the owner is asking you not to and you are disrespecting his wishes.
I don’t make a distinction between business premises and domestic. Respect a business owner as you would a home owner.
No one has a right to be on private property without permission!
Corporations are people too.
Is the business open to any member of the public or does it have controlled access? If open to the public then you’re wrong as they have extended permission to anyone/everyone as they are. Including in possession of their God given Constitutional rights.
I thought it was only leftist crybabies who demanded other people accede to their wishes no matter what.
I think KCK was talking more about common courtesy than legalities.
In Texas, the signs carry the force of law, so — it really is that you’re breaking the law if you enter the premises that are properly posted.
The new law changes the level of crime from a Class A to a Class C misdemeanor. However, if the business asks you to leave, and you don’t — then the penalty rises back up to Class A.
I still get a good chuckle when I come across a small business that has actually gone through the trouble of posting a legally compliant sign, taking up 3/4 of the available real estate on their front entrance so that they barely have any space for their own logo…. Now having to put up additional new 30.07 signs are going to be priceless.
Of course 90% of the signs I have seen usually just have the standard “no berretas” (those decals with a 92f silhouette with a big red circle and X over it) followed by an asterisk and “per Texas penal code 30.06” or something similar. Or my personal favorite that RF posted a few month ago from whole foods downtown, the massive rambling paragraph talking about how bad guns are and a parenthetical reference to 30.06.
I have always wondered, is there a system in place for reporting non-compliant signs? Like you pointed out above, a compliant sign apart from being an eyesore is also like putting a bullseye on the front door which is why so few businesses actually post compliant signs. I say, you don’t want me to carry? Then I want to make you jump through ever last hoop required to legally prevent me from doing so, including this big ass ugly sign(s) on the door.
While not an “official” site, I take a peek at this one once in a while.
http://www.texas3006.com/
Yup. Whole Foods is now gonna have to cover a very large amount of available real estate at every entrance with ugly signage in order to indulge their hoplophobic fantasies. (What would be karmic would be for WFM to fail to post a 30.07 sign at their downtown store on January 1, and then to have dozens of OC’r show up at the same time.)
One would hope that WFM would just replace their current 30.06 signs with 30.07 signs. 99% of the hoplophobes wouldn’t know the difference.
Deleted my post and still didn’t get it right! It will be a class C midemeanor not a class B…
Carrying concealed makes it easier to ignore signs, and for those around to ignore you.
This /\
Say, that reminds me. You can put your heater in a cooler and get it past the security at an MLB game. Ask me how I know.
Robert, it will change from a class A to a class C!
SECTIONA44.AAChapter 30, Penal Code, is amended by adding
Section 30.07 to read as follows:
Sec.A30.07.AATRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH AN OPENLY
CARRIED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the
license holder:
(1)AAopenly carries a handgun under the authority of
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H.B.ANo.A910
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Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another
without effective consent; and
(2)AAreceived notice that entry on the property by a
license holder openly carrying a handgun was forbidden.
(b)AAFor purposes of this section, a person receives notice
if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to
act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written
communication.
(c)AAIn this section:
(1)AA”Entry” has the meaning assigned by Section
30.05(b).
(2)AA”License holder” has the meaning assigned by
Section 46.035(f).
(3)AA”Written communication” means:
(A)AAa card or other document on which is written
language identical to the following: “Pursuant to Section 30.07,
Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried
handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411,
Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this
property with a handgun that is carried openly”; or
(B)AAa sign posted on the property that:
(i)AAincludes the language described by
Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii)AAappears in contrasting colors with
block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii)AAis displayed in a conspicuous manner
clearly visible to the public at each entrance to the property.
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(d)AAAn offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor
punishable by a fine not to exceed $200, except that the offense is
a Class A misdemeanor if it is shown on the trial of the offense
that, after entering the property, the license holder was
personally given the notice by oral communication described by
Subsection (b) and subsequently failed to depart.
Thanks for that–clears things up somewhat. Looks like unlicensed carrying of a handgun in public will be a Class B (assuming the main post is correct), and disregarding a “don’t bring your gun here” sign by a licensee will generally be a Class C.
Nice! Texas is regulating signs the way slave states regulate guns — making compliance tougher and tougher. I like it.
Next move — sign registration.
Make the signs NFA items.
The change to a class C misdemeanor is a big deal. The reason is that you will get your CHL revoked for a class B or above. This change means that you can no longer lose your CHL for carrying in a posted location.
That’s not exactly a proper way to view it. You certainly can lose your CHL, and be convicted of a Class A misdemeanor, if you carry concealed (or openly) into a business that has properly posted the sign, and the business asks you to leave and you don’t.
Yes, but they have to ask you to leave, then you have to refuse to leave, and stay around for the police to get there. See how unlikely that makes the whole thing? If you leave, the police come, you are nearby and the police stop you and ask if you were in that business armed, and you say “Yes I was”, then all they can give you is a ticket. You are no longer in the business. I think it was a well-done law.
Nobody has ever been able to explain to me why any state, much less a state like Texas, allows a private property owner to bring to bear the full force and violence of the government to enforce what is literally a private policy matter.
Why does the state get involved to enforce this one policy, and not others? If you bring popcorn into a movie theater, are you arrested and thrown in jail? What about the classic, “no shoes, no shirt, no service?” Does that bring the police running?
How was this allowed to happen? In Virginia, property owners can have a no-guns policy, but the worst that can happen is a trespass cite if you refuse to leave. How does this one private policy matter merit the enforcement of the government?
Has this ever been challenged on a constitutional level? What authority does the state have to enforce private policy?
Popcorn isn’t an illegal substance. Shoes/shirt/service aren’t, inherently, illegal behaviors. Carrying a handgun is a crime in Texas (unless you have a license).
I’m not defending, but I am explaining as I understand it. The sign was put in place by the legislature as part of a compromise to get the original bill passed. Now that the law has been on the books for a couple of decades with, basically, zero complications, people have been asking the legislature to remove “force of law” from the signs. That hasn’t happened yet, but the reduction from Class A to Class C is a big step. Perhaps the next legislature will be able to push through a bill to remove the force of law from what is, as you say, a private property policy matter.
I can’t wait to start reporting people with the 30:06 sign for non-compliance! Fun!
Maybe one day they’ll get to the point of recognizing that one one, for any reason, has the authority to ask anyone, for any reason, to not exercise the right to keep and bear arms.
Okay, they can ask — but there is no authority to enforce such a thing. An inherent right to protect myself goes everywhere my private property –myself– goes.
Give me a BREAK. I’ll be shopping ONLY at places that PROHIBIT gun-carriers.
Has it occurred to you that if one were so inclined as to do bodily harm to another, they might actually SEEK OUT establishments that ban their customers from the ability to defend themselves with firepower? If I were a criminal, I sure wouldn’t go mug the sheriff in his office… I’d likely go to my local H.E.B, or any of the other ‘firearm averse’ establishments making themselves known through the posting of high contrast signage.
Please please let me know what you people think about this if you are going to put a permit sign to keep open hand guns out or concealed should you have a sign on the door accepting all responsibilities when you enter the building. That is the law in Texas Yes or No are true or false because the responsibility is up on them to protect me where I am at all times in their facility
all stores should post a sign stating accept all responsibility in the facility of the building if I cannot carry my weapon next to the sign that says no open handguns or concealed
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