As a gun blog where more of the writers lean Right than Left, we get some flack from time to time, any time we bring up connections between Islam and gun violence. Strike that. Every time we run a story that connects the dots between Islam and gun violence, you can bet your bottom drachma that we’re gonna generate some controversy. So fasten your seatbelts, campers, because news is rolling out that the Christmas day murder/suicide in Grapevine, Texas was evidently an Islamic honor killing.
Multiple news sources report that the families involved were all Muslim, and the father went over the edge, because he did not approve of his 19-year-old daughter dating outside her faith.
Just to be clear here, TTAG does it’s best to give you the truth about guns. When we report or comment on the news, we play it straight, and take pains to separate our point of view/bias from the facts. In fact, if you’ll go back and read our first story on this tragedy, you’ll see where we did our level best not to jump to conclusions, regardless of how easy it was to connect the dots and make a cognitive leap on that motive thang. But there’s a line between trying to be fair and ignoring what’s obvious.
Believe it or not, I’m somewhat sympathetic to dads that are concerned enough with their kids social lives to make sure that those that they date are upstanding, good people. I’m far less sympathetic to those who cross the line and go from “good dad” to “controlling, manipulating, obsessive, domineering, stalker-dad.” Apparently, Aziz Yazdanpanah got his control freak on, even going so far as to nail her bedroom window shut to prevent her from sneaking out of the house to visit her boyfriend.
Yep. Nailing windows shut is crossing the line.
See, I’m of the opinion that if you raise your kids right from the get-go, you won’t have the discipline problems you fear, when they are older. If you’re permissive, indulgent, and never set limits or equate cause with effect early-on, it’s nigh-on impossible to do it when they are teens. It’s like trying to lock the barn door after the horses have skeedaddled. Useless.
My kids learned at a very early age that there were rules and consequences. Break the rules, pay the price. Parents that bend the rules for their kids, giving them the “benefit of the doubt” do them no favors in the long run. You can’t be your child’s buddy when they’re young, letting them do whatever the Hell they want, then turn around when they become teenagers and suddenly expect them to toe the line.
I suspect Aziz made this mistake. Reports indicate that he installed security cameras around the house, not to track potential criminals, but to keep an eye on the comings and goings of his family. Now there’s a healthy familial relationship. Others interviewed indicated that he controlled her wardrobe, monitored her cell phone usage, read her text messages, and demanded she date only within her race and religion.
Look, I’m as much of a hard-ass about my kid’s wardrobe as the next guy. When you take a look at what 13-year-old girls see in the media as “the norm” or “stylish,” you’ve kinda gotta wonder if everybody in the fashion world has lost their minds. Most role models for young girls look like they shop at “Ho’s-R-Us” or subscribe to the theory that the sluttier they dress, the better-off they are.
So I get where he wanted to make sure his daughter didn’t follow the rest of the lemmings off the tasteless fashion cliff. On the other hand, I don’t make my kid wear a burnoose or dress like a 17th-Century Quaker. (No offense to Quakers intended.)
According to several co-workers at a local Sam’s Club, Nona Yazdanpanah told them that her dad had purchased a gun after expressing concern that the 19-year-old’s boyfriend was stalking her. He insisted on picking up his daughter at work, ostensibly to keep the stalker from harming his daughter.
Again, if this were true, I don’t know of any dad who would let harm come to their child, especially from an abusive stalker boyfriend. But from reports, it looks like the one with the psychological problem wasn’t the boyfriend, but dad.
Part of the problem here is the clash of cultures – the Iranian/Islamic/Old World idea that the father is the absolute ruler of the family, versus the American/Secular-Humanist/New Age idea that “if it feels good do it.” But saying this is an “Old World” phenomenon is wrong. This is strictly a Muslim thing, specifically a Wahhabi Muslim ting. Trying to blame “old world values” is nothing more than an attempt to white-wash the real problem, by effectively saying “Oh yeah? Everybody does it.” But they don’t. Israel, from what I’ve been able to learn, has had NO honor killings among the Jewish population. Hmm. And they are a part of the Middle East, no?
To put it another way, take all the incidents of parents murdering their own children, in cases where they didn’t approve of the kid’s behavior/social lives. How many of those families were Muslim, and how many were Christians, Jews, Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, Wiccans, or believer in some other religion? I would wager that better than 95% of the families were worshipers of Mohammed and Allah.
When someone moves from a culture that believes honor killings are an acceptable part of society into a culture that has devolved into a permissive society where pretty much anything goes, something’s gotta give. Either the immigrant family loosens up and adapts to their new home’s social morés, or they have to live with the inevitable clash of cultures. It’s just that simple.
You likely won’t hear anything about this in the mainstream media. It doesn’t fit the narrative they promote where all Muslims get a pass, because to report a connection between Islam and violence would be racist and betray a bigoted attitude. So they’ll sweep this whole “honor killing” under the rug, just like they did with the Fort Hood massacre.
And just like they will again, the next time something like this happens. And when some jackwagon mayor, legislator, or Congressman proposes that Sharia Law could “peacefully co-exist” within the American system of jurisprudence, they’ll be able to ignore incidents like this, because there’s no official connection between the killing and Islam.
Do I believe that every follower of Islam is guilty-by-association with Yazdanpanah? Of course not. Nor do I believe that just because you are Muslim, that means you think it’s okay to kill your family members if they don’t behave according to your interpretation of the Koran. But I don’t see a lot of Christians killing their kids and using their religion as justification for same.
But what I am saying is that the media does us a huge injustice by covering for extremists like this insane idiot, for the result will either be that non-Muslims will eventually persecute all Muslims for the crimes of a few, or we will be asleep at the switch to the dangers of honor killings and other tenets of Sharia Law as extremists push for them to become a part of the fabric of American life.
Islam’s growth cycle is exactly like that of the other kooky desert religions. Its only 1400 years old and still has some violent vitality left. Give it around 600 years to pussify itself like Christianity. Or, 4000 more years to become a tribal and dispersed religion.
My concern is that this guy may not be insane given his cultural presuppositions. He might be acting rationally given his adopted social construct. Honor killing your daughter among Muslims is not like shooting an abortionist among Christians. Mainstream Christians trip over one another to denounce murders done in the name of their faith. Honor killings are met with silence or even tacit approval. How many Imams write editorials railing against honor killings?
Culturally, Muslims are not doing an adequate job of separating those who are prepared to live in peace within western culture and those who are not. I think westerners work far harder to make the standard caveats about “of course not all Muslims…” than do our Muslim neighbors.
Currently, we believe there is a silent majority of Muslims who deplore the awful things that happen in the name of their faith. They need to become less silent and soon. Eventually we’ll quit believing it.
Culturally, Muslims suffer from polygamy. The wealthiest men get all the women. Coupled with low-ish average IQs this can breed trouble.
So, stupid, sex-starved, religiously fanatical men are continuously being imported to Europe and America. The result? Extreme sexual violence. Particularly against Scandinavian women.
But Muslims aren’t the real enemy. That dubious honor belongs to the liberal-managerial elite of Europe and America. The ones who draft immigration laws and repeal national origin quotas. Fiends like this have our blood on their hands.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/06/the-religion-of-rape-all-norwegian-rapists-in-2010-were-muslim/
http://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/muslim_rape_wave_in_sweden/
In the US father want to murder men that rape their daughters. Islamic fathers want to kill the daughter who gets raped. Not everyone is “just like us”.
His friends called him “Bob”. He belonged to a happy hour group. He celebrated Christmas. This is not the reaction of a religious Muslim, it is something else entirely. Maybe cultural, but NOT religious in any way that reflects a conservative religious view.
Wait……where is the proof that this was an honor killing? This is the kind of crazy conservative blogging that discounts so many of the gun bloggers as xenophobic rightwing crazies, ferociously typing out their crazy theories underneath a tin foil hat. I haven’t seen any credible news sources proclaim this as an Honor Killing, which leads me to think you scalped this story Jihad Watch (the paradigm of truthiness) and “connected the dots” after reading one unconfirmed news source. Funny thing is that you didn’t mention Jihad Watch anywhere in this post…..I have one word for this, and it’s plagiarism. I don’t trust Jihad Watch as a credible and apparently you don’t want to associate your name with them, but that is OK I can do it for you.Brad’s Scource: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/12/islamic-honor-killing-in-texas-man-who-murdered-family-on-christmas-morning-was-muslim-who-disliked.html
Unless Aziz were to have left a suicide note, there will never be a way to know what was on his mind or in his heart. Even with a note, we could speculate as to what his agenda might have REALLY been. In fact, the latest reports have the police stating they believe the perp tried to stage the scene to deflect attention away from himself, by putting one of the guns in the hand of his dead brother-in-law. (The police didn’t buy it, because the brother-in-law was shot four times, and Aziz used both guns to kill him.)
If you’ll note in my story, I mentioned MULTIPLE SOURCES. Of course, you’re so quick to judge (me) that you accuse me of plagiarism (!) and using Jihad Watch as a single source. Must be nice, knowing everything. Only, you don’t, for you see, I used quite a few sources, including raw video footage from WFAA Chanel 8 in Dallas. Here’s a link to one of the many stories the Dallas Morning News has published, this one with interviews from friends: http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/tarrant-county/headlines/20111226-neighbors-horrified-at-news-of-familys-slayings-in-grapevine.ece
And for the record, I never quote from a single source without attribution. If I have multiple sources for the same data, I don’t feel the need to provide footnotes with my posts.
sorry but my journalism/media ethics classes are kicking in here, Brad always cite your sources not citing sources only makes you and your article look suspect.
I was wondering if anyone else thought back to their basic high school English classes about citing sources.
That’s funny, most professional journalism doesn’t cite sources – they just use incredibly vague statements like “according to someone close to the administration” or “an insider states that”.
after doing some digging on my end here is an interesting quote you may have some issues fitting into the narrative you are trying to paint.
http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/12/28/3621683/police-say-gunman-in-christmas.html
“Police also said Wednesday that they have no evidence that the shootings were an honor killing and are pursuing evidence that the motive in this case resulted from the dissolution of Yazdanpanah’s family and financial troubles he was experiencing.”
That may be. Then again, the media calls the Ft. Hood shooting motive “a mystery” to this day, while the DoD calls is “workplace violence”
so the POLICE who are investigating the case have a personal agenda to obscure the truth? I’m just left asking what they would gain by lying seen as this guy wasn’t a cop, didn’t shoot a cop, the police had no reason to interact with him before the shooting so why would they lie about the reason for the shooting.
police leaders are political appointees. they say what they are told to say by the elected apointers
where I live we ellect our Chief of Police they are not appointed.
secondly what benefit does the mayor of grapevine get by hindering THIS investigation, skepticism is good but it needs to be counterbalanced by always asking who benefits from what your accusing people of.
any elected police chief has to be concerned about how the media will portray him. If he says “domestic violence” eveyone shruggs and goes back to sleep. if he says “honor killing” then CAIR decend on him calling him a biggoted islamophobic. neither chang eht facts of the case or the outcome. but one sure brings a lot of very negetive media coverage.
which would a careful ELECTED LEO choose?
Having worked as an officer I can tell you WE DO HAVE A POLITICAL AGENDA. For example we had a very high number of black males driving around town and beating up white males randomly.
WE WERE NOT ALLOWED TO REPORT THIS AS A HATE CRIME (even though this clearly was). In fact we were told the only time we could report something as a hate crime was when the victim was a minority and the suspect was white. This was even though the victims stated the assailants were yelling racial slurs at them while attacking.
Should the opposite were to have occurred, you can bet the ACLU would be breaking down the doors.
I am not trying to nail TTAG, just sloppy and irresponsible posting by you. You lifted a story from jihadwatch.org and then did not cite your source. I call the source into question and the faulty logic. Your italicized text matches 100% with the other blog, you took the time to call out the quotes but did not cite them even if you didn’t mean to pass it off as your own, that is still plagiarism. I found the source of the quotes and cited it for you, you can throw up the Dallas Morning News as your source but, they don’t match the italicized text.
However it is all moot since the police department themselves refute your claim (and http://www.jihadwatch.org‘s claim) about it being an “Honor Kiling”.Police also said Wednesday that they have no evidence that the shootings were an honor killing and are pursuing evidence that the motive in this case resulted from the dissolution of Yazdanpanah’s family and financial troubles he was experiencing. According to Mitch Mitchell at the Star-Telegraph.com, “Police also said Wednesday that they have no evidence that the shootings were an honor killing and are pursuing evidence that the motive in this case resulted from the dissolution of Yazdanpanah’s family and financial troubles he was experiencing.”
I suppose the police could be telling the media that they don’t suspect the slayings were “Honor Killings”, but there has not been enough published evidence to make the call, and if the accounts of the “friends” quoted in the JihadWatch article are to be trusted then I would suspect multiple news agencies would have picked them up by now, but they haven’t. More often than not the reports read like think one from MSMBC that the “Police still aren’t sure of a motive and say they may never know what led to the Christmas Day massacre,” I suppose the larger news agencies have more to loose and don’t want to be held libel.
For more credible news sources check out:
Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/12/28/3621683/police-say-gunman-in-christmas.html#storylink=cpy
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45807991/ns/local_news-dallas_fort_worth_tx/#.TvuNi_JmnyU
“take all the incidents of parents murdering their own children, in cases where they didn’t approve of the kid’s behavior/social lives”
Since Brad used the phrase “social lives” I take that to refer to young teens and older. Otherwise, I think we need to tread carefully here. There may actually be a higher incidence (total numbers and/or higher percentage) of parent(s) murdering their children among America’s modern-era general mass population than among Muslim families as a whole. To clarify, very possibly murders of children during the rebellious teen-years might be higher by Muslim parents while for younger misbehaving kids I suspect non-Muslim parents may be responsible for more murders. Notice that I am not using the word killing to describe a murder as there is a difference.
Let me make this perfectly clear:
“Police say it wasn’t an honor killing” does not mean that it wasn’t an honor killing.
Islamic criminal rituals, like honor killings, are things that the average police officer knows less about than the average tech-branch agent at BATFE(ARBF) knows about firearms.
I Have to ask what article are you talking about that references this being an honor killing, cause I’m left scratching my head cause I know for a fact that if there were even the appearance of Honor killings CNN would be jumping all over it like they did 3 years ago when a father in Detroit killed his wife. Yet when it went to trial CNN didn’t continue to cover anything including the fact that the man hadn’t been to a masque in years that he wants part of the Detroit Muslim community and that the local imams in Detroit publicly spoke out against the man and how what he did was not part of Islam. Along with that part of the reason the wife had wanted the divorce which lead to the husband killing her was because he was abusive.
secondly your generalization of ratio of what religion has the largest portion of people killing each other seems like the idiotic unprovable BS that MikeB spews.
I found the parent article on http://www.jihadwatch.org. Brad lifted everything from one source that has not been confirmed by any other source or news agency.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/12/islamic-honor-killing-in-texas-man-who-murdered-family-on-christmas-morning-was-muslim-who-disliked.html
yeah this just sounds like the standard religious scare tactics. its funny people don’t realize that Muslims have been living in the USA since before its founding and that the first time the white house had a Ramadan dinner was President Thomas Jefferson in 1805.
its also fun to hear to people rant about how Muslims are evil and the like, it reminds me of what David Dukes was spewing about me and those of my faith in the 80’s and 90’s.
people rant about how Muslims are evil
How should one react to reports like “Suni sect’s ruthless violence against Christians continues in Nigeria: Six churches were targeted and at least 150 people were killed in its bombing attacks over several days in November, and half a dozen bombs went off near churches and in a Jos market on Christmas Eve 2010, killing about 30.”
Speaking of Thomas Jefferson, Hitchen’s “Jefferson Versus the Muslim Pirates” is a good read.
how do you react to that you treat them as the terrorists they are just like you treat the IRA like Terrorists, or the Tamil Tigers. they are terrorists because the seek to use force to enforce their will not because of their faith.
terrorists are terrorists but to conflate religion of more than 2 billion people as the cause of the problem is idiocy. we don’t conflate the religion of child killers like Kalie Anthony and the like to their religion, we don’t conflate the religion of school shooters to their actions. if the only thing you changed was what religion a group of terrorists are the most that would change is what ethnicity they kill not their urge to kill.
How about addressing the crimes in America that are done by those in Christian groups-mainstream or off the wall? The Garridos were associated with Jehovah’s Witnesses. Manson was raised by a fundie Aunt, the LDS fundies have a bunch of murders under their belts, There was Waco-weren’t they a Christian sect or how about Jonestown? How many died there? An Air Canada jet was brought down by Sikhs. There were supposed to be more, but the other plane that was supposed to be brought down was saved when the bomb went off in the airport, killing “just” a few. How many husbands that are Christian/Jewish/Muslims just murder their wives because they are pissed or abusive or drunk? How many “christian”moms kill their children cause they just lose it? No one ever labels them “Christian” murderers or Jewish ones. They are not usually IDd by religion unless they are ministers or prominent somehow in their faith. If an Amish family murder happens, we may know they are Amish-not that it has any bearing. Why? Cause it makes for a more interesting headline.
Wrong again, boy wonder.
I found the story about Honor Killing reported from multiple sources but they seem to
attribute the source to Jihad Watch.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/was-the-santa-claus-killers-christmas-day-massacre-an-honor-killing/
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/273383/20111228/texas-christmas-day-massacre-alleged-islamic-honor.htm
It is possible that Jihad Watch is the primary source of this story and that it is just being parroted everywhere.
I’m not faulting Brad, I think it’s difficult to tell these days whether each news source did their fact checking
or if they just spewed a single source as fact.
You could always check the posting dates like I did. Jihad Watch is the source for these quotes.
Jihad Watch published on Dec 27 at 10:30am. I don’t see anything from any other source before that time.
I searched google for the quotes like “She couldn’t date at all until she was a certain age, but when he was going to let her date she couldn’t date anyone outside of their race or religion”. Any articles that google bring up are after that time.
So just to be clear, http://www.jihadwatch.com created these statements, and they are not backed by the police or other news outlets.
Just to be clear, I drew information from at least a half-dozen sources. I do my research just before writing. On a timely story, I don’t have time to run every source to ground. I’m just one guy – and TTAG does not have a roomful of fact-checkers. (Not that the NY Times, MSNBC, or HuffPo seem to put theirs to good use. But I digress.) I have no way of knowing if those sources attribute information to JihadWatch if they don’t mention it.
If we can leave the character assassination aside for a moment, let’s look at the perp, shall we? Obviously, he was under a great deal of stress. Having been through a similar situation (caring for a terminally-ill parent, having my now ex- file for divorce and attempt to take my kid away from me, facing financial ruin) I feel as though I’ve walked a mile in this guy’s shoes. Of course, I didn’t shoot anybody. He did.
My point is that statements from friends and neighbors point to a guy that was, on the surface, friendly, but behind the mask, he was exhibiting the classic signs of someone who felt as if he had to be able to control ONE THING. He couldn’t stop his wife from divorce. He couldn’t stop the bank from foreclosing. But as her father, he could stop his daughter from dating anyone he didn’t approve…or so he thought. But American culture teaches kids fast. It sounds as though the daughter rebelled, and this was the stresser that pushed dad into the armed and dangerous Santa.
Now, shall we stop obsessing about JihadWatch and get back to talking about the story itself?
If that was your intention then you didn’t need the first Paragraph and most of the second one could be reedited to better fit what you intended to talk about, not inflammatory BS that rates as yellow journalism.
Sometimes we should take a step back and call a senseless and empty tragedy exactly as it is .
The Islamic custom of the man being the decision maker may be a factor why three people died on Christmas eve.
It could also be that he saw the gas price rise to $3.50 a gallon and said to himself “f**k it”.
Heck , he could have been watching TV upstairs and seen Justin Bieber’s latest haircut and decided he was punching out and taking his family with him.
This is no different than what happened in Illinois where a mother went crazy and killed her kids and husband.
Or a sad case in South Dakota where an Air Force Staff Sergeant was shot dead by his wife one day out of the blue. Perhaps it was due to him wanting to divorce her, but that’s no justification for a .45 in the skull.
Or the sorry incident in at a university in Virginia where 30 students were killed.
In none of those cases was there any kind of deeper intrigue or religious geopolitical angle. While I do not doubt that the mainstream press is ignoring the nature of the family’s Muslim faith out of political correctness, the bottom line is that three people were shot dead for no purpose at all.It is human nature to look at a tragedy like this and wonder “why” and search high and low for an answer to that question, when the real situation is that someone snapped and took innocent people down with them.
The husband went nuts, shot his family dead, and took his own life. Its happened before, and doubtlessly somewhere in the world it will happen again.
The idea that this was an honor killing is absurd. Can you point to any other Muslim honor killing that resulted in a massacre? No, they involve murdering the one offending family member.
This might be an honor killing. Maybe not.Unfortunately, the mass media is incompetent, agenda-driven, and lacking in investigative journalism. Ten years ago the mass media was on a binge reporting murders and mass murders tied to the shooters being on anti-depressants and others who stopped taking their meds cold turkey. Then the mass media stopped reporting those stories.
Remember Columbine and the rash of other high school mass shootings? Turns out the shooters all had a common denominator: they were well yes young males and they were all also taking a Ritalin-type drug. In about 5-10% of cases, those drugs can have an affect opposite as intended making the user more hyper-active or agitated. Again the mass media did not do enough investigative journalism and connect the dots. All we heard about was teen males, guns, access to guns, suburbia/rural, white, loners, and bad music selections that may have brainwashed the boys.
You can’t blame Islam or any other religion when some wack job murders innocent people. Every religion and even non believers have insane murderer’s amongst their ranks, and we can’t judge these law abiding people by the crimes commited by criminals.
“secondly your generalization of ratio of what religion has the largest portion of people killing each other seems like the idiotic unprovable BS that MikeB spews.”
Hmmmm. Boko Haram killed over two dozen Christians outside a Catholic church this Christmas day, second year in a row for that stunt.
May 7 of this year armed Islamists burned two Christian churches in Cairo in addition to killing 12 and injuring over 200 Christians, reportedly over the marriage of a Muslim man to a Christian woman.
October 31 last year Islamists killed 58 Catholics during evening Mass in Baghdad. Google the subject and it is pretty easy to see. The worst recent secular killing I could find not committed by Islamists was extremist Hindus killing Christians in India. I searched but couldn’t find any recent secular mass killings perpetrated by Christians, Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Zoroasterians etc, etc. None of them fly planes into building or perpetrate suicide bombings across the world on a weekly basis either.
Apostasy. Iran, Egypt, Pakistan, U.A.E., Somalia, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Qatar, Yemen and Mauritania all currently and officially punish it by death. Sounds kinda “killy” to me.
For the record, I’m a quiet and very happy atheist so I don’t have much of a dog in this fight. The worst acts extremist atheists commit is annoying the living shit out of everyone (myself included) with their incessant whining about anything religious.
The two worst mass murderers in history, Mao and Stalin, promoted Atheism as their “state religeons”. So in the most murderous religeon catagory, atheism still wins.
hmm Hitler was a protestant, how about the catholic church which actively handed Jews over to the nazis, or that Stalin was an atheist and then we have Jewish Settlers who are killing Palestinians, hell we have ultra Orthodox Jews assaulting conservative and reform Jews in Israel for not dressing modestly enough.
hitler was an athiest. stalin and pol pot too. ask cambodians who survived the killing fields how harmlessly annoying he was.
The atheist commies win hands down on the body count. Over 100 million of their own people they murdered during the 20th Century. And I always like to add, they took their guns first.
Sigh…
Atheism is a set-piece standard of Marxism and Leninism. Religion was yet another perceived element of the bourgeois (and a threat to conformity) and as such had to go. The millions those commie dictators killed weren’t killed in the name of atheism and to suggest so is really weak. Those millions were killed in the furtherance of the communist ideal as a whole. Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot had just as big a hard on, if not more, for the educated as they did those of faith.
As for Hitler, his private sentiments were conflicting. In public speeches even before his ascension to power were strongly Christian. According to Albert Speer Hitler remained a member of the Catholic faith till his death. Mein Kampf is also riddled with references to God and faith.
You’re not really saying anything I disagree with. The commies killed their victims in the name of Communism. But atheism was not an inert ingredient.
Funny thing about Hitler, though; he was as much a satanist as he was anything. Religion was just another weapon for him, and he’d use any weapon to hand.
Off topic, but do you know what’s starting to drive me crazy?…wait for it…when people say “wait for it” before an announcement. Silly and amateurish.
This cannot be properly thought of as an honor killing. He killed himself, which is impermissable in Islam. If this were an honor killing he would only have killed the daughter, and then proudly defended his actions. He sounds more like the obsessive controlling type that finally broke as his world collapsed around him.
Aziz as a Persian would have been a Shia not a wahabi.
If a white KKK member killed a black man for “cavorting” with a white women would it be called an “honor killing”?
It would be seen as the racist bigoted murder that it was, “honor” killings need to be redefined in the same way.
I don’t care if it was an honor killing, or if the shooter was just having a bad day, or if he was toilet-trained too soon, or if his mommy never loved him. The only thing that matters to me is that he killed a bunch of unarmed people for no damn good reason. If there was any justice to be done to that mass murdering sunofabitch, he’d be raised from the dead so the state could kill him again.
+1 blaming religion is like blaming guns, your just taking responsibility away from the criminal.
The issue is where the “religion” condones the practice, it becomes complicit in the exercise of that practice.
so islam forces people to kill others? they dont have a choice in the matter? the psycho still has to make that decision on his own, in his own head the moment he pulls the gun. relgion has zero authority at that point. its called free will for a reason. islam/christianity doesnt kill people, bad people kill people
Honor killing my ass; it’s an ego killing. Nothing another person does can stain your honor.
I see your point, DaveL. But I’m using the term as it is used in the “mainstream” media. FoxNews tried to rebrand “suicide bombers” as “homicide bombers” and it didn’t stick. But I like the idea.
I think it the Bush White House that first tried to re-define the suicide bombers as homicide bombers.
Sounds like the guy was a real control freak at any rate from the initial article. Let us just call it a Control Freak Killing?
I have to go with the overstressed control freak father theory and not the religious angle. How many family members were slaughtered this holiday season by one parent as revenge against the other? Or the mothers/fathers who killed their kids and themselves when all hope was lost? I seem to recall that there were quite a number this year. And it isnot only Islam that has honor killings–it has been a large problem in India for centuries, and still exists although outlawed when the British were runnng things. Chinese seem to have any number of instances as well, although more typically these days we hear about the knife wielding crazies slaughtering school children and not the deaths of soiled sisters or the continued massacre of female children. Let’s face it, just beneath our mora, upright and civilized veneer, we are or can be vicious killers of men.
Davel tell that to the muslim dude whose wife got a job against his wishes. Now everyone, and I mean everyone he respects telss him to his face he is a failure and is half a man if his wife works. Even worse would be his daughter dating a black man. Do I need to go into what this does to the “honor” of his family name? Even the honor of long dead relatives is ruined. Word travels fast on facebook. His hometown in the old country, again I mean literally every last person there thinks he is a fool, his father a fool, his granfather a fool and so on.
You need to learn more about immigrant culture, and especially muslim 1st and 2nd gen culture.
Jamie, it’s not that I don’t know what their concept of honor entails, it’s just that I think their culture encourages them to act like petulant man-children.
No one doubts, Jamie, that there are indeed honor killings among Muslims; all we have to do is read the foreign press to discover them. The point some of us are making is that this particular massacre does not seem to fitr the typical honor killing model. If this were an honor killing, there was no reason for him to kill any one other than his daughter and/or wife; there is no honor in killing his other relatives and their children, or in killing himself.
Liberal MSNBC stated one of the victims texted that the guy wanted to be all fatherly and be father of the year before shooting them all. Seems slaying Santa was a real control freak about the Wife and Daughters as well. His family seemed to be having financial and tax problems and went bankrupt.
Our arrogant mainstream media now believe they have a higher duty than merely conveying the truth; they believe they must “combat stereotypes” by ignoring some stories and exaggerating others. They believe that by falsifying current reality, they can create a better reality.
I can guarantee you that this dramatic story would be receiving far more press if the killer had been a white Christian. And the police would not be announcing, just a day after the murders, that “we will probably never know the motive” if the killer had been non-Muslim.
You see this pattern again and again. Earlier this year a cabbie drove into a crowd on the sidewalk outside a San Diego nightspot, injuring many and almost severing one woman’s leg. The media either avoided naming the cabbie, or used his anglicized adopted name. They gave the story little attention once the man’s middle eastern name came out.
Or how about that much-feted moderate Muslim media mogul on the east coast? You remember, the one who opened the Bridge tv station to portray the moderate and peaceful and true image of Islam to all us benighted Westerners. Isn’t it amazing how little news coverage he got after he beheaded his wife? Can you imagine the press passing so lightly over the story of a Baptist minister beheading his wife? Or ignoring his hypocrisy if he’d appointed himself a standard-bearer for good Baptist values and improving the image of Baptists? They’d still be dissecting the case on primetime today!
Or how about the young convert to Islam who shot soldiers at a recruiting station in the midwest? What was his name? Hard to remember when the press gives it little coverage. I do remember seeing his father testifying, though, before a congressional committee. The father said the boy had been a good and happy kid before converting, but after his conversion he’d been full of hate. The father was immediately cut off by a female member of congress who rebuked him sharply – “You are not an expert on Islam,” she said, and tried to prevent him from speaking further.
The facts be damned. The fix is in. The one (totalitarian) worlders have their narrative and they’re sticking to it. Inconvenient and contradictory truths will be “shamed” (Hillary Clinton’s word) into silence until that time when they will be (as currently in Europe/Eurabia) actually criminalized.
But back to the case at hand – what is it about being “unhappy about the break-up of his family” that is inconsistent with an honor killing? Honor killers often kill not only the straying wife or daughter, but also any friends or family who helped the primary victim to disobey him. It would be nice to see the police do some research into motive BEFORE concluding that the motive is unknowable.
Never forget – Islam teaches that women have nine times the sex drive of men. (Never mind that science has proven that the opposite is closer to the truth.) Can you imagine a creature having nine times the sex drive of a sixteen year old boy? A slavering sex monster which must be sentenced to a lifetime of house arrest for the good of society!! Islam allows its men to marry outside the faith, but makes it a crime for a Muslim woman to marry a non-Muslim. Not to mention the fact that a non-Muslim is unlikely to pay the father the bride price he would otherwise be expecting. (A man in bankruptcy, as in this case, might be especially interested in that bride price.) Islam gives tyrannical power to husbands and fathers. A wife may be beaten not only for the actions she has committed, but also for the actions a husband suspects she might commit!! It’s like a medieval version of “The Minority Report” with a paltry individual man playing judge, jury and executioner over all his female relatives. A wife may be beaten if the husband detects “a spirit of disobedience in her eyes.” Their prophet says, “I will not ask a man why he beats his wife.” and also “Hang your scourge where your wife can see it.”
Very well said and I think it reflects the opinion of most of the ” sane ” public here in the US.
Not to split hairs here, but what do drachmas have to do with Muslims or honor killings? (“you can bet your bottom drachma”). The drachma is the now-defunct currency of Greece, a country where the official state religion is Orthodox Christianity. You might as well be betting your bottom franc, peseta, or escudo.
Actually, there are a lot of honour killings in india, which is defenitely not an islamic country.
“This is strictly a Muslim thing, specifically a Wahhabi Muslim ting”
Actually its a Persian/ Indian/ Pakistani thing.
“Wahhabi” usually refers to Saudi Arabia, which has zero honor killings.
honor killing can be found in all “ikhwan” states such as Eygpt, Jordan, Palistine, Syria.
You claim to always report news in a straight way yet you somehow try in the very same breate to tie this story about the fundamental of violence in Islam to some totally 0% related to gun control issues in grapevine TX. Dont credit yourself so much. That was a rediculous way to begin this story. Yea, we can really trust you and your reporting big time! What a laugh to whoever wrote this piece. I didnt even finish it and I live 5 miles from where it happened. Back to google for another writers take on the story!
You guys should stick to reviewing guns. If you want some journalistic advice; you should probably do some serious fact checking, avoid all the rhetoric and anecdotes (nobody cares how you raised your child, it is completely and utterly irrelevant.) and hire someone to check your grammar before publishing. (There is a difference between ‘it’s’ and ‘its’)
BONUS: Refrain from trying to sound witty or clever with your analogies, it comes across as forced and unprofessional.
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