A post I read on the guns people regret selling made me think about the guns I’ve sold and the fact that I sold them because I hated them so much. I also thought about all the guns I’ve borrowed that I quickly gave back because I hated shooting them.
My first pistol was a Ruger SR9c (TTAG review here), an evil beast that was impossible to rack or load unless you had really strong hands. It also had a massive grip that was way too big for me.
That pistol frustrated two consecutive shooting teachers because the magazines couldn’t be hand-loaded without cutting your fingers. I finally figured out that it would be cheaper to get a different pistol than to spend lesson after lesson struggling with a gun that wasn’t ever going to be easy to manage.
After that, trying to be cool, I had a HK VP9 for a while. Have you ever had a gun that you just felt hated you? One that everyone else but you could shoot, but every time you tried, something would go wrong? This was that gun. I also hated the paddle magazine release.
In my first two-day pistol class, I cut my hand on the slide within the first hour and spent the rest of the weekend dealing with a pistol that kept getting covered in blood because no matter what I used to bandage myself, the texture of the grip would rip it off. While it may have been an authentic weekend in terms of cowboy shootout grip skills, it was a lousy one in terms of progress.
Definitely the most hated firearm I’ve tried so far was a vintage Yugo AK-47 with an under folding stock. I borrowed it from a friend who thought it might be helpful in terms of training me for my trip to Africa. He insisted that it was easy to shoot, utterly reliable, and a quick study. He didn’t tell me about how the dust cover would blow off with just about every shot and land behind me in the shooting lane.
For some reason, my range had a whole pallet of some kind of surplus Russian AK ammo that they were eager to unload, and it was cheap, so I grabbed some. I quickly figured out that the reason the ammo was so cheap was that it was incredibly dirty and stunk worse than any ammunition I’ve ever encountered. If Dante’s Inferno had a waiting room and that waiting room had a plug-in air freshener, this would be that smell.
I couldn’t finish shooting out the box. I saved what was left and gave the ammo and gun back to my friend the next time I saw him, having already started saving money to buy a .308 instead. This same friend tried to get me to shoot a .357 magnum revolver with a 3-inch barrel later on, but by that time I had grown wiser.
What’s your most hated gun to shoot, and do you still own it?
I traded for a 350 remington magnum carbine.boy i thought that i had scored big-time until i went shooting, that little pop-gun kicked worse than my 460 weatherby. it sounded like a 155 long tom ,it took about four shots to remind me what a jewel that i traded for it. i was wondering why he was so interested in trading so far down ,now i know better….
For awhile I had a Masterpiece Arms .380. It was the smallest semiauto pistol I have ever seen. Small enough that you had room for just your middle finger on the grip. It had no sights, just a groove down the top of the slide. Held 5 shots. Magazine release had to be actuated by pulling back near the heel of the grip with your fingernail. But the fun part was the recoil. It was the snappiest, most painful gun I’ve ever shot. I found a .357 featherweight to be more enjoyable.
I have the same gun and I hate it for every reason you listed. It jammed and two local gunsmiths could not unjam it. Had to take it to the factory in GA to get it fixed. Only reason I still have it is because there’s no one I hate enough to give it to……yet.
When I was about 14 I picked up a Savage 220 single shot in 12 ga. Hammerless gun, looked neat. I probably weighed about 130 pounds, it bruised me up so badly (of course you have to use those heavy loads for pheasants…) I even tried to put a foam rubber pad between the stock and the butt plate. Didn’t help, except to make it way too long to shoulder.
Modern day- I got a steal on a new Ultralight Arms in ,300 Win Mag. I think it might be a good shooter but from the bench, with a Zeiss 4X12 it knocks my glasses off no matter where I hold my head. I’ve got a couple .375 H & Hs and a .458 Win Mag in bolt guns and they aren’t even in the same recoil category. Maybe some day if I find a use for it I’ll have a brake put on. I still can’t believe it’ll tame the thing much.
My most hated gun is the AR-15, well it used to be but I have warmed up to it. I saw a video where they took a semi-auto AK47 and stomped it in the mud and also did it to an AR15, guess which one did not jam? It was the AR15. with its smaller ejection port it let in less mud. Seeing is believing. I now hate my most previously beloved gun the M1A. On forgotten weapons they had a guy blow dust into 3 guns, a M1A, a French MAB and a AR15 while another guy was shooting the guns. Guess which gun jammed up on the second shot. It was the M1a with its gaping hole towards the rear of the receiver and it let in a ton of dust. The next gun that made it almost through a magazine full was the French MAB and then the gun that did not jam was the AR15. Of course in both examples the AR15 started out squeaky clean. Everyone knows how dirty the gun gets after just one clip of ammo is fired out of it and when the burnt powder mixes with rain you have real problems with an AR15. My next most hated pistols are those without any sights and those that are double action only., I have to tip up the muzzle to see the end of them when pointing them and my shots go way high. Example an FN 1910/1955 single action and a Seecamp .32 Acp which besides having no sights is double action only. I cannot hit a barn door with this gun at 7 yards and I am not being facetious. I have no idea why I keep it.
You keep the Seecamp because it is pretty, small, and well-built. The fact you cant shoot it well is irrelevant.
We marveled at the Seecamp when there were few well made pocket pistols of caliber.
If the LCP had xome out in the 70s, the Seecamp may not have existed.
I would still like to have a Seecamp. It would be a safe queen for sure.
I consider myself a decent shot with my Seecamp .32, considering Ludwig’s purpose for the design. I find the mag extension helps with handling. It’s still the smallest production semiauto pistol out there, well made and something you can pass down to your grandkids. For me, the LWS32 is better to shoot than a S&W 642, which felt like catching baseballs barehanded. Definitely my worst shooting experience to date.
That little Seecamp was pretty much always intended as either a secondary piece or something for deep cover. I purchased one of the little NAA copies when they came out and worked with it a little. Nice gun, trigger is always the same long, awful “squeeze” but it is reliable with Silvertips and IMO would be better than a blade in close quarters if that’s what I had. The lack of actual “sights” is indicative of the distances for which it was intended, as in “stick it in the perp’s ribs and shoot”.
Mine came with a cute little zippered belt-mounted “holster”/cell phone pack(?) that is supposed to be covert. Not so much in this day and age and retrieving it from the zippered pack would need some dedicated practice. And then you’d probably end up dropping it on the ground…
@Vlad
Oh man – no sights AND double action? That’s like, I dunno, a Yugo hatchback with manual steering and brakes.
As soon as you said ‘clip’ instead of magazine, I knew not to read any further.
You mean all we have to do to make you go away is use the word “clip”?
Clip clip clip clip clip….
Clippazine!
I have no idea how your Forgotten Weapons anecdote has anything to do with the AR15 being a hated gun to shoot…
Gun I most hated to shoot: Tikka T3 30-06. It’s factory “recoil pad” has the elasticity of granite and translates to a shoulder-breaker… Replaced it with a Limbaver Airtech fitted recoil pad and now it is my favorite bolt action… Best $25 I ever spent.
As a matter of curiosity the author said their first pistol was the rather recent Ruger SR9C and their second was an HK VP9???… Are you 25 years-old or did you just get into the game late?
@Cautela
Late, AND I’m old (50). Started shooting bout 2.5 years ago. Grew up a city kid so I never got to experience all the cool hunting rifles and such that most of the folk here did!
Cool… Pistol ownership probably isn’t the best barometer on whether a person is “into guns” anyway… I know many middle aged people who have owned long guns their entire lives and never bought a pistol.
After that, trying to be cool, I had a HK VP9 for a while. Have you ever had a gun that you just felt hated you?
It did. Are you not familiar with HK’s unofficial motto?
Concur on the AK. The standard handguard is too small, I keep burning myself on the gas tube. I keep thinking the pain will teach me not to grab there, but pain-aversion therapy is not working. Either Pavlov was wrong, or I am a masochist.
I like AKs for what they are, but I do believe they are overhyped. They overheat like crazy and feel like an improvised pipe rifle out of fallout when you shoot it. But I own 3, simply because they make perfect beater weapons. I don’t care when it gets dirty and scratched, so I use them more often then most my other guns.
@Rosignol
I am not. Enlighten me. I didn’t have the HK long after the whole blood thing.
I think that probably Pavlov was right but dogs also don’t suffer from the delusion that if they just do it about 1300 more times, it’s going to get better. That’s a human thing.
“HK. Because you suck and we hate you”
More so than any other company, they are notorious for atrocious customer service and mind-blowing elitism. They act like their firearms are too good for anyone who isn’t special ops, which is especially ironic because 90% of their customer base is mall ninjas whose parents have too much money.
I don’t know where the unofficial motto originated, but if you google it there’s a telling article written by a class 3 FFL about his dealings with HK
@Red
Well, now that makes sense, because the person who talked me into buying the VP9 was indeed an operator type, or maybe I should say a wanna be operator type. Duly noted.
HK’s unofficial motto was coined by Sci Fi writer and 3-gunner Larry Correia. It was years ago, and I don’t recall which gun board it was on, but it was most deffinately Larry.
“Because you suck, and we hate you”
-HK, probably
Elaine,
Rosignol is referring to a interweb meme that a SciFi author started in way, way back when (going on 20 years ago) with a screed about H&K’s marketing philosophy towards American civilian buyers of guns. Here’s the posting, replicated on his blog:
https://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suck-and-we-hate-you/
This spawned all manner of H&K hate from the American private-sector gun buyers over the years, and additional memes that make fun of a H&K USP pistol brochure where the photography team loaded the rounds into the magazine backwards:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jIESEBNaGfU/UgAqah5dBxI/AAAAAAAAC7Q/XKFvNLfln8M/s1600/hksucks3.jpg
Mr. Correia has received hate mail by the bushel-full over the years from HK fanbois, some of which he’ll post because it’s so damn entertaining.
Here’s the thing about HK products from my perspective as a gunsmith, who actually appreciates high-dollar guns that are actually made very well:
The irony of HK is that many of their pistols are fine products, even if over-engineered a bit. The USP is a good, solid pistol that is quite accurate for being a polymer widget. Its trigger could use work, but the USP pistol concept is pretty darn good. The P7 “Krunchenticker” (as named by Jeff Cooper) was a good, safe pistol for LEO’s back in the day. Their MP5 product is a bit over-hyped, but no one other than the Israelis seemed to want to compete in the sub-gun market for years and years, so the MP5 had the market pretty much to itself.
What is insufferable, however, is the attitude of the German gun producer towards the American gun buyer. This, is not unique to H&K. I’ve been at hunting trade shows (SCI to name one, FNAWS for another) where German custom rifle makers have been in attendance. These guys don’t make any non-sporting guns – at all. Everything they make is for the “discerning sportsman.” Suffice to say, these custom rifle/drilling makers are selling products that cost $10K and up, up, up.
Being able to speak/understand/read German is an advantage in these situations, because I can just amble up to their booth(s), looking like your average American guy. As I’m standing there, listening to their chatter, I know that these assholes are talking trash about a) me, specifically, because they think I cannot afford their rifles because of how I’m dressed (I actually can afford their guns, thank you Silicon Valley), b) they think that Americans know nothing about fine guns (again, wrong, we have more gunsmithing schools than Germany does, and we have large collector associations that cater JUST to German sporting arms in the US), and c) they just resent being sent to US trade shows by their management, period.
These Germans would do well to know that German is the third most spoken language in the US, after English and Spanish – but then again, they’re just not bright enough to do their homework on the US. For some reason, they seem to think that having their asses whupped twice in one century by us makes them oh-so-very superior to Americans. In many ways, the Germans are even more insufferable than the French. They’d both also do well to learn that Americans prefer poker as our card came of choice, a game in which keeping a straight face is as important as what is in your hand.
Into this situation, comes HK, who won’t sell you, a non-LEO/non-military buyer much of their product line, and who won’t sell replacement parts to just any gunsmith in the US. Why?
“Because you suck, and we hate you.”
And now you know the secret to H&K’s success.
@Dyspeptic
This is fantastic. Thank you.
Hello, DG. My memory from the API days is that Jeff Cooper referred to DA/SA semiautomatic pistols (e.g. Walther P-38) as the “crunchenticker,” not the H&K PSP or P7. See, e.g., Jeff Cooper’s Commentaries, Vol. 4, No. 16 (Dec. 1996). He felt that the DA first shot from the hammer-down position was the “crunch” and the subsequent SA shots were the “tick, tick, tick.”
Love this post. This is probably the first post of yours I can say that to. But since I have some background in Germany it resounds with me.
I was immune to the German additude. Almost all European countries have an additude about the US until money or military or both are needed. I dated and married a first gen Hungarian. Father-in-law was a nuclear engineer. With multiple Master degrees in every aspect in design engineering we had lots in common. Dating an American was verboten. It only took about 20 yrs to fully accept me.
Thank you for the links. I’ve been looking for those original stories.
Nicely put.
Now back to shooting my Gen1 Walther PPS .40S&W with the flush fit 5 round mag.
The only handgun I could ever hit shit with.
You’re so full of shit I can smell it from here. I won’t deny the hoity toity attitudes the Germans in general have, but HK is squarely not in this camp when it comes to one thing: catering to the American public. They were the only, and I really do mean THE ONLY company to fight tooth and nail against the ’94 AWB and the ensuing import restrictions it brought with it. Furthermore, the majority of issues they face with exportation is not due to their choices, but rather because German law places severe restrictions on certain firearm exportation. And this is coming from, not exactly an HK hater, but someone who has been utterly unimpressed by their lineup and received a seemingly one in a million lemon USP 45.
From a gunsmith perspective, I totally agree. I am fortunate enough to work for a major company that is respected by HK so the rest is not an issue for me.
As per the VP9, the Germans do seem to have a thing about cocking a firearm… A few years back I almost bought a fine Krieghoff double rifle from a friend who had dreams of hunting Africa and then developed some illnesses. This rifle had a long (about 2″) slide where a tang safety might be that needed to be slid forward under quite a bit of pressure to cock the piece before it could be fired. WTH?
I also own a Blaser 84-type Ultimate Rifle in .375 H&H/.243 Win that has what appears to be a hammer at the rear of its bolt that must be pressed forward, again, with enough force to cock the striker. It is not very large and once a scope is mounted, almost impossible to do, especially if wearing a glove. It’s a fantstic firearm but why Blaser chose to do this I have no clue. To keep tension off of the striker spring until needed? The only way to carry either rifle would be to have it cocked all of the time, especially in the calibers they are in and the game you would be chasing.
1911
H&K VP9
I got rid of my VP 9 too. It pinched my finger.
I’m not alone then! And I thought it was just because I wasn’t badass enough to shoot the thing.
I absolutely hated my FN 509. When I first bought the thing it was on a sale and there was a three mag give away from the company. I bought it, took it home and tried to clean the barrel. They put something that resembled glue in the barrel that made cleaning it impossible. I finally got a swab through the muck, and took it to the range. I had a bad feeling about that pistol and my targets were pathetic. I couldn’t find a common ground on the sights to have any type of consistency. I swore that I would trade the damn thing in the first chance I got. I kept giving myself goals, give it 2500 rounds then get rid of it. Then it became 3000 rounds. Now I’m up to 11000 rounds through it and would not part with it. I still hate it but would not give the thing up. One, who’s going to buy a gun with 11000 rounds through it and second, it’s so easy to clean now I think they must use Teflon on the slide because nothing sticks to it. It’s been nothing but dependable and so well made. It’s become my go to gun. I did find the CZ -P 10 to suck balls and didn’t give it a chance. That turned out to be excellent trade bait and I picked up used 509 as a backup to my original. Who in their right mind would sell a 509?
@Vinnie
“I still hate it but I would not give the thing up.” So is that like…you’ve learned to love to hate it, or you’ve hated it so long that it’s become a kind of love?
I feel like this whole thread is helping me understand why guys stay with women they don’t like, as well. Side benefit!
Most men don’t really like to admit we made a bad choice, so we will tend to delude ourselves into thinking “it will get better”. I personally have done this destructive kind of thinking about guns, cars, shoes, women, jobs, etc. I don’t do it much anymore, because I have less time to invest in waiting for the “better” that may never come. Elaine, this is your peek behind the male curtain, so please don’t tell your friends and just keep this secret between us okay?
I wll only speak for myself on the girl thing. As long as it was more expensive to get rid of her than it was to bear the pain, she stayed. But then she left and happiness ensued.
Gun thing
Browning hi power. Slide or hammer cut the crap out of the back of hand. ‘Here you can have it back Dad, I am done’
Sig 229 40s&w. Took it to the range, put a box through it. Back to the show to trade it for a p220.
Witness 10mm. Grip sits weird in my hand so all the recoil goes into my thumb and not the heel as well. 1026, 1066, RIA 10mm, no problem all wonderful. Bye Witness.
Remington 870 expess. Where my hand sits, pulling the trigger means punching my face. Clover leaf 50yrd slug groups tho. Crappy finish that rusted if you sneezed near it.
A Remington model 600 in 358 Winchester.
It had a turned down barrel and a Bell and Carlson stock that was straight ( good) and skinny (bad).
It kicked worse than a Moison M44 carbine. The stock pushed it straight back and the blade of a recoil pad tried to separate my arm from my shoulder like a chicken wing.
The worst thing is that it was accurate. It would shoot an inch and a quarter from 200 yards IF you fired a shot…waited 5 minutes…fired a shot…waited 5min…..
That turned down barrel heated up so much that 5 in a row would barely stay on paper at 100 yards.
It wasnt mine…my father in law and a buddy of his ( who built the damned thing) traded it back and forth over about 20 years.
Everyone who saw it loved the way it looked…..until they touched it off. I guess it was more of a gun I hated to love.
Standard Manufacturing DP 12 shotgun.
I didn’t actually own one – I tried it at a “Range Day” promotion put on by one of the local “merchants of liberty”. I didn’t “hate” it but I didn’t like the operating system: cycle once, fire twice. Even at the range, I got confused “Did I just shoot once or twice? Do I have to rack the slide now?” Even sitting at the bench, I lost track. I can imagine what would happen under stress. It was also quite heavy. But well-made. Very solid and smooth.
An HK SP89. Would FTE with any ammo every 3 rounds or so. Even a German gunsmith couldn’t make it operate, correctly.
Your article highlights the subtle differences in people and therefor the guns that work well for them.
I love my SR9c . I like to think i have big, strong hands bit i know my wife doesnt.
She stole my SR9c after learning she could shoot it better than any of our guns.
So now we have two to back up my full sized SR9.
We both shoot the SR9c better than the full sized SR9. We think its better gripping with the shorter grip…..go figure.
I don’t think I ever even fired it but my wife was gifted a S&W Sigma 9 mm from her brother (with permission of the court). Has to be the most godawful trigger in the history of firearms. He keeps thinking he’ll get his rights restored (he’s not) and it’s probably only worth a nickel, so it sits in it’s box in a closet waiting for a house fire or something to put it out of it’s misery.
I’ve never ever seen anyone say great things about the S&W Sigma series. If there ever was a true low point in the history of S&W the Sigma would be it. Pretty much no one is nostalgic about the old Sigma’s.
I bought a Sigma when they sold for about 250. Crap trigger for sure. But it’s not a target gun. And maybe I got lucky but mine runs. And runs. And runs. And……….
Felt the same way until I took out the pigtail spring and replaced the rest with Apex springs, and put in a fiber optic front sight, now it is an accurate handgun.
Might make a good glove box gun, but I carry and keep a scoped AR in the truck so I don’t even have that use for it. I guess if you’re digging change out of the couch for a defensive weapon it’s probably worth it, but for me, I’d rather own 5 awesome guns than 50 crappy ones.
When my dad took my stepmom to buy a defensive gun of her own, she chose the Sigma 9mm because it was comfortable in her hand and the slide was very easy to rack. The rolling hinge feeling of the 2 piece trigger turned me off of S&W pistols for years. I finally came back around when my cousin bought an M&P 9c, and now I own a Shield for CCW.
Close 2nd is probably the Ruger LC9 I got for my sister. Again, went to the store and let her pick one out. She liked the fit and the inclusion of the manual safety, and I got her a CT Laserguard to go with it. After a couple trips to the range, we discovered she could only pull the trigger back far enough to break about 75% of the time. Luckily they came out with the LC9s a few months later, and after a trade-in she’s back in business.
Back in 1994 the Sigma trigger wasn’t viewed as horribly as it is now. Was it great? Not at all. But nowadays even some of the best handguns have Apex upgrades.
The Sigma (like a Glock) will run forever. You never have to clean it, and unlike a Glock it is comfortable and points naturally. Unless you plan on shooting 400-500 rounds in a single day. Then the trigger will actually make you hate S&W. Not because it’s not optimal, but because it imparts a certain recoil onto the trigger finger which begins to hurt after hundreds of rounds. I know this because I shoot some guns that much.
Even though my primary EDC is a $1,000 FN firearm, I still carry my two, old Sigma 40’s for a reason sometimes. (I have both the original F series and the later E series).
I’ll see your Sigma and raise you the H&K VP-70. It’s pretty nifty to have as a collector’s item and it has the novelty factor of beating GLOCK to the punch by over a decade as the first striker-fired, polymer-framed handgun to hit the market, but the trigger pull on that bastard is about as firm and heavy as a staple gun; imagine if the Radom P-64 were DAO and you’ll get the idea. On the plus side, it’s good for practicing trigger technique; if you can shoot the VP-70 accurately, than no other trigger out there will pose a problem for you.
Aside from that, there’s also my CAI PW-87. As cool as it looks, it’s just not much fun to shoot. It requires a lot of force to work the lever hard enough to get anywhere near reliable cycling action, which becomes painful in short order even with gloves. And “near” is about the best I can do, since 2 3/4 shells are too long to reliably eject, 2 1/4 shells are too short to properly feed, and 2 1/5 are too hard to come by to waste on a range toy… So are the 2 1/4s, come to think of it.
I don’t own any AKs but have shot a couple with the ‘folding stock’. A joke made for small people or those who just point and spray. Like AK pistols, which I call bullet throwers. You can better aim a slingshot.
Side folding, or under folder as depicted in this article. There’s a big difference between the two. I have a side folder and it shoots great and is plenty comfortable to shoot.
It’s all personal preference I suppose. I’m not short and I’ve made hits with an underfolder ak out to 500yrds. Granted I had to walk it in there, but that was with iron sights. I actually think besides the lack of cheek weld (which some paracord helps with) I find the underfolder much more comfortable than I’d ever imagined. I do like the side folding stock AKs better just because they have a better place to set your cheek if you have a low mount optic. As far as the myth that AKs are not accurate. It’s probably spread by people that don’t know how to shoot or just some very poorly built rifles out there. My two builds shoot around 2 moa and one has a little 8.5″ barrel.
Bought a yugo m70 some years ago, yep the (camel hump) Anyway, i put an ace skeleton side folder on and wow huge difference. Everyone likes shooting it, including my wife surprisingly. She’s a die hard AR lady.
The ‘not being accurate’ thing is most likely the ammo and not the gun. Com Bloc ammo is a real crapshoot.
I’ve opened boxes of surplus 54r and found lose projectiles and powder in the box where rounds had come apart. And some of that ammo in x39 is so foul you wonder if it was loaded with black powder.
The factory sights on an AR are better than those on an AK. But with decent ammo most AKs will shot good enough for their purpose.
Leinad .410 single shot break action. We call it “the pipe bomb” because it looks like one. The recoil forces the rear of the trigger area straight back into my middle finger. Meh… it was free. Second place goes to a little .22 Rohm Derringer that did the same with a bonus… the end of the trigger had a spike shape that stabbed you as it happened! Not mine… I was working on it for a friend.
A stainless steel Walther PPK that was finicky with ammo. It was a jamomatic psitol. Thank God I did not own it
I had a S&W M&P Bodyguard 380. I liked the ergonomics, I liked the sights, I liked the size, but the trigger! It was just plain insanely heavy. I sent it back, I even put it an aftermarket trigger, and it still was awful.
I traded it towards a Sig 238 and never looked back.
I don’t own one, but I feel you. That was the gun I was going to buy, right up until I shot it. Lightweight, cool looking, everything didn’t suck, except the shooting experience. I moved on to the P238, and it’s been my everyday carry for… four? years now. At work, under a polo, every day. No issues. Everyone who shoots it loves it. Never look back.
My Makarov in .380. The safety/decoker cut my right thumb pretty badly. Sig Sauer P232 in .380 was an unpleasant shooter. Notice the .380 trend?
My Ruger SR45 would jam ever 2nd or 3rd magazine and always shot left no matter what.
The worst was my Ruger SR1911 Commander in .45. I could not get through a single magazine without a numerous FTE’s or failures to go back into battery. Even after sending it into Ruger, the gun wouldn’t work.
Man that’s crazy I actually never noticed my Makarov safety cutting into my thumb. I’m going to have to watch that the next time I shoot.
Beretta 9000 40 cal. What a pos it jammed 2 or 3 times per 10 round mag
Sig Mosquito loaded with WWB. Great for malfunction drills, everything else, not so much.
Back before the dems feared the people so much and didn’t view us all as felons in waiting I had a mail order shotgun from sears. It was a 16 ga. With hollow plastic stock and fore end made of a material that was similar to the stock on the Remington 66.
Never scaled it but I’m betting that gun did not weigh 5 pounds. Easily. And it had no recoil pad.
We used to stand around and dare each other to shoot that thing.
@jwm
That thing would probably be a collector’s item, especially now with what’s happening with Sears and all. Oh man.
I feel your pain. I have an old Marlin bolt action 12 ga. “slugster” with a 24″ barrel and rifle type sights. It has a 2 shot detachable magazine and fully loaded with 3 rounds, it probably weighs 5 pounds. Marlin put a pretty thick recoil pad on it, but when shooting the 3″ slugs that it is meant to shoot, it kicks like an angry mule. I wimp out and shoot 2 3/4″ slugs, and it still kicks. Why haven’t I sold it? Because it will throw three Winchester slugs intro a 3″ group at 50 yards. Plus it was my first shotgun. Hard to part with your first(fill in the blank here).
Dust covers are optional
@RH
I understand that now…
I’m rather surprised the dust cover flew off at all, let alone every shot. The Yugo AKs have a secondary locking system for the dust cover to prevent exactly that when launching rifle grenades. You may not have had the dust cover completely on or it may have been damaged. If that happened to me more than once in a shooting session, I’d just leave the thing off.
And yeah, a lot of cheap and/or surplus ammo smells strongly of ammonia. It’s not just an AK ammo thing.
The owner of the M70 probably didn’t know his own rifle. Probably never pushed the button to allow the recoil assembly to fully seat, locking the cover. Blame the user, not the rifle. Or as MDFI says, You Suck, It’s Not The Gun.
As for HK that who “we hate you” thing is ridiculous. If you buy into that, you’re likely one of the gun counter trolls that spouts off debunked myths to anyone who will listen while having the salesperson pull every pistol out of the case without any intention of buying anything.
The gun I hate is my 870. What a POS. Front sight would slide off to the side, action locks up, surface rust if it’s just humid out. But it was a gift from my buddies, so I can’t very well get rid of it.
@Behind
Ya, I think it was probably damaged too. We (the RSOs and I) tried everything to get it to stay on short of duct taping it. But, it hadn’t been shot in probably years so who knows. I am MUCH happier with my .308, that’s for sure!
I had that happen with an SAR-1 I got on the cheap. Whoever had it before me was apparently going for the “battlefield pick-up” style, and used an alternate, worn-looking dust cover with slightly different measurements, so the recoil assembly couldn’t get a good, firm lock on it and recoil would cause it to slip out and pop off the cover. A little filing at the bottom of the hole allowed the locking tab to extend out another quarter inch, fixing the problem right up.
I did a local club “Classic Battle Rifle” match yesterday . I used a 1944 production M 38 carbine, the stock is awkwardly thick, running the bolt is like dragging a lot down a gravel road, terrible sights, oddly inconsistent trigger and at some point the barrel was drilled out and a liner of some sort inserted. From a bench rest I can get about a 5″ ish group. Only the Russians can divise a stripper clip slower and more awkward than single loading.
But I joy I felt whenever I actually hit something ( 8 times in 3 hours) did somewhat alleviate the dull throbbing in my shoulder. I still have it but wow the M38 sucks.
I feel ya!
Neat rifle but my eyes start watering when i pick one up.
I think i would really have do some soul searching before squeezing that trigger.
Looks great though.
You are talking about the the carcano m38? I own one and yeah it’s special. The clips actually work alright at least for me in a normal unstressed situation. Under stress who knows. The bolt is flip floppy in the action, the trigger is long and not really smooth, the sights are special (that term again), and the safety isn’t exactly for me if I’m putting it nicely.
The M38 I have is a mosin-nygant variant made at the Ishevsk arsenal in 1943.
Just about every mouse gun I have bought or shot. They just don’t fit my in my hands (large palms, short fingers). The smallest small gun I like is a glock26 with pinky extension. 1911s, Beretta 92 with big grips, Glock full size, yes please!!!
I’ve never met a gun I could hate, except maybe my Jennings j-22. That thing is garbage but I still enjoy it in all it’s jamming, terrible sights, awful trigger horribleness.
I actually still have my J22 bought It around 88′, the FTE happened when the firing pin slammed Into the edge of the chamber to many times because there’s no last shot hold open started counting my shots after that, hey at least I could keep all my shots on a 8×11 sheet of paper at 10yrds and It’s good at wasting bullets
The original Ruger LC9.
It had an exceptionally stiff and miniscule manual safety, diminutive sights, a giant loaded chamber indicator on top the slide that would incorporate itself into your sight picture, a magazine disconnect, and a 14lb, 3 inch long trigger pull that was the stuff of nightmares. I couldn’t hit anything beyond 3 feet with it, so I promptly attempted to offload it to anyone and everyone I knew who was even mildly interested in firearms. I hated the damn thing so much, I refused to give any of the subsequent “improvements” a chance. In fact, I haven’t bought a Ruger since….
I endorse this complaint completely. I went back to ruger though and picked up a Lc9s pro a few years after dumping the original. Lc9s has the incredibly light and smooth trigger. Absolutely no audible or tactile reset though so it was a great way to short stroke follow up shots.
Ha. My LC9 had about an 8lb trigger that was much better than any Jframe i own.
I didnt use the safety but that flat blade cut into my thumb in my normal firing grip.
I also found out the turkey timer indicator pin is what held in the firing pin spring.
Drying firing and had the srping poop out and hit me in the nose. Back to Ruger.
The death knell was the turkey timer seized again in the down losition and the slide wouldnt go into battery. Back to Ruger and theymsent me an LCR to replace it.
My sister picked out an LC9 because it fit her hand and she wanted the external safety. Got a CT Laserguard for it, and took her to the range a few times. She could only pull the trigger far enough to break about 75% of the time.
A few months later they came out with the LC9s, and we traded it in right away. Incredible improvement, and she used it to qualify for her License To Carry.
Had one that hated me. Beretta 92a1. Picked it up cause I love the aesthetics, but god damn that thing failed to eject everyother round for me. Handed it to my buddy, he would mag dump all the mags I picked up for it. I’d try it again with a death grip, so I wasn’t limp wristing. Failed to eject like every 3rd round.
Keltec P3-AT. Sold it after warning the buyer not to buy it. He did anyway.
KelTec PF9. Traded it for a Taurus Millenium G2 and got the way better end.
Taurus .38 snubnose. Hurt my hand every time I fired it.
A Morini .22LR target pistol with an optical trigger.
It left me profoundly skeptical of optical triggers – forever.
What is an ‘ optical trigger’? Never heard the term before.
Well… most people here at TTAG don’t deal much with competition firearms, so I’ll have to explain the “Olympic Free Pistol” issue.
The Olympic “Free Pistol” competition uses .22LR pistols that are single-loaded, and shot at targets 50 meters downrange. Free Pistol is perhaps one of the most challenging shooting events in the world. The pistols can be only .22LR, and hold only one round (ie, the one in the chamber). The pistol is allowed no optical sights, only iron sights, and the competitor may use only one hand. The course of fire (last I looked) was 60 shots in two hours.
Anyway, the company that makes the pistols used by (I’m told) a majority of Free Pistol shooters is the Marini Free Pistol. They’re located just north of Milan, Italy in Switzerland. Marini also makes .22 bullseye-type pistols, and a wider line of precision air pistols, many of the latter have an electronic/optical trigger as well.
Here’s an instruction sheet for the trigger portion of the more modern of their line of free pistols:
https://www.scribd.com/document/6818831/CM-84E-Inglese
The trigger in these pistols is an electro-optical unit. The trigger mechanism breaks a beam of light (I think it’s infrared) and the electrical/electronic lockwork fires a pin at the .22LR cartridge. This is all done to achieve a can’t-be-beat low lock time.
The electronic/optical trigger unit has… issues. Sure, it can be adjusted to infinitely low “weights,” but when it goes off because of some issue in the electronics… it wrecks your confidence that you have a safe firearm in your hand.
Interesting. Sounds similar to the concept of optical isolators on PLCs and RTUs. Wonder if there is a secondary protection against failure? As it sounds, should the light apparatus fail while said firearm is cocked and loaded, then the pistol should discharge. There must be some other redundant feature to insure against such a thing should the light source become defunct.
So, there’s a body of experience with what would be the electronic firing elemnt of hypothetical smart guns?
Dear god you are a wealth of knowledge DG. I would kill for the opportunity to sip some bourbon and pick your brain for a couple hrs. Thank you for imparting knowledge on the rest of us.
I have never heard of anything like this. Thanks for sharing
Any paintball enthusiast on the site will already be very familiar with optical triggers. Wonder if the people making Olympic pistols might not benefit from bringing in some of that expertise on reliable optical triggers.
Bought a Remington Model 742 (.308) from my cousin for $300.
Jam o’ matic.
I tried about 10 different types of commercial ammo, thoroughly cleaned the gun, tried two new magazines, had two different gunsmiths look over the gun….no one seemed able to make the damn thing work.
I finally had a local gun store sell it on consignment and bought an AR platform rifle in .308.
I had the same experience but in .30-06. Bought it as a cheap hog gun, and it turned out to be a heavy single-shot. Fortunately, the fine folks at the gun store recognized the extractor wasn’t manufactured anymore and gave me trade-in value on a different gun in their shop.
blackhawk in 44 mag, the flat trigger guard beat the hell out of my knuckles. sold it soon after buying it.
Never had a gun I “hated” and got rid of because of my hatred for it.
I do have a few that annoy me with minor things. My first generation .40 Hi-Point Carbine will slap the crap out of your cheek every time you pull the trigger. I don’t hate it I just don’t like it that much. Swapping stocks on the thing would eliminate the problem but every time I think about doing that I end up spending the money on something cooler. Soooo… generally that gun sits in the back of my safe and doesn’t get used much more than a couple times a year.
Saiga 12. But it’s a love-hate relationship. It has given me more trouble than any other gun, but when it runs well, it’s tons of fun. Although I really don’t like how it feels / shoulders.
I still own it, and probably always will.
I bought a polish p64 because a LGS had them for cheap. The damn double action trigger pull was, no joke, 20+ lbs. The recoil was awful and stung your hands. The recoil was like hitting a rock with a metal bat without padding. It was also picky about ammo and only liked more expensive ammo. I sold it to a friend who liked it, even after shooting it (I think he needs help).
S&W 915 it would put all 15 cases up my arm in a perfect row. Regardless of stance sold it to a lefty.🤣
Technically not a complete weapon. Got two stripped lowers from SOLGW. Poor engraving and quality with pin holes. Built both and sold them.
I EDC my VP9 but as others have posted it is a personal choice.
Keltec PF9 for me. Designed by Marque De Sade. Made my hand bleed and sucked even after I put a Handall Jr. on it. Inaccurate too. No pain from my slightly heavier Taurus 709. Had a Taurus 85 steel snubby and it was ez to shoot…
I had an FNS-9 that simply ate my hand alive whenever I shot it. I have no clue why or how or what was causing it but I couldn’t even get through a magazine without bleeding from some place.
I’ve never has this problem with any other gun, even my old ass Star Model B which gives out hammer bite left and right if you hold it too high never ate my hand alive like the FNS did.
No idea. Traded it off for a CZ SP-01 and never looked back.
The second gun I hated the most was a Sig 556XI, but that’s an obvious one. I went through 4 uppers before I gave up on it and sold it at a loss.
Lesson learned on that one: never buy Sig anything again. Haven’t ran into a problem since.
I have a Springfield model 187s (.22lr) w/ an older Weaver 4x scope mounted on it. I inherited it from my grandmother’s late husband (she remarried in her late 60s). Even though I never felt the desire to call him ‘grandpa’ he was still a pretty cool guy. And therein lies my problem, the gun does have some sentimental value.
Why do I hate it? Because although it should be a pretty decent plinker and varmit gun, it constantly has FTF problems. The stupid thing will jam multiple times on every magazine (tube fed) and is guaranteed to jam on the last shot so every shooting session ends with a string of swearing as I have to dig out that last round that’s rammed in nose down and half crushed by the bolt.
I could probably fix it but the gun is worth very little and hardly worth the headache.
Never owned a firearm that gave me problems or I disliked, well except for a Mac-10 9mm SMG that somehow was full automatic only. I just don’t understand how that happened!! For all your inquiring minds, I don’t mind sharing the story since it was so many decades ago, the limitations are long dead, gone and buried. The G-med couldn’t do anything if they wanted and I’m so squeaky clean now, it’s almost disgusting. As the story goes, I could never get the select fire to function in semi-auto. It just wouldn’t work. So I fixed that little issue but then it developed a failure to feed. So back to the shop for a ramp polish and change of ammo to FMJ.
Oh boy….it worked then! Now the issue became having possession of a firearm that was illegal by both Federal and State law. OK, it was a fun project, full auto is fun but it’s time for a boating accident or something because I wanted that thing gone.
It has now been gone upwards of 35+ years now.
@MLee
A shooting friend has a full auto .22 rifle that his dad modified and he inherited. Somehow he is allowed to have it and it’s legal (some kind of heirloom firearm exemption maybe? Not sure). That is one fun little toy. Same friend just mounted a real bayonet to a tactical .22. Guess the obsession with .22s runs in the family.
Mosin M44. It kills from both ends. But it’s so loud and the fireball is so big that it’s almost worth firing it once or twice a year. Russians must be made out of concrete or something. Anyway, I won’t part with it.
@Ralph
The Russians. I remember how that AK ammo was in little red cardboard boxes with the Communist star on it. To this day I still wonder what was in that ammo – house dust, meth, a few sprinklings of Chernobyl dirt maybe…
Russian surplus ammo is an acquired taste. I love the smell of 7n6 5.45×39. Damn that stuff is great.
You reminded me of my Moisen Nagant. . Mine was made by Remington, I’m guessing to be shipped to the Zzar’s army to defeat the commies. It’s is BIG, it is HEAVY, and with the steel butt plate, it hurts to shoot. Mine will throw the first 2 shots reasonably close to each other, but the third shot walks off about 4 inches to the right, with each subsequent shot wandering further off. Why do I still have it? Because I bought it for $35 and because it does throw the first 2 close, I rationalize that it will be a good truck gun, or a good gun to hunt with because I seldom shoot more than one shot hunting, but mostly, it just takes up space in the safe.
I forgot to add to my post.
Kimber CDP II that weapon would not function no matter what ammo or mags I tried. Even tried a WC Flatwire kit at no avail.
Worth recoil:
Ruger M77 .300 Win Mag (1979) Bought it for an elk hunt in Colorado. All four of us shot the same caliber and each other’s guns.
After one shot, nobody would shoot mine again! Pulled the scope and gladly swapped it for a set of Blue Boy camper jacks.
Worst report:
Browning .380 Auto.
My dad bought it for my mom in the late 50’s for protection.
It’s in the safe, but shooting it without muffs AND plugs is like shoving an ice pick in your ear!
The Berreta I was issued in the Marines
The window licker in my platoon hated his so much that he traded it to an Iraqi Policeman for his glock 19. Didnt sit so well with the 1SG. We spent a day tracking down the IP and made the two knuckleheads traded guns back.
The IP gave us some funny looks when an American soldier bear crawled up to him and asked for his gun back. Then bear crawled away with a newly reacquired M9.
lmao!! I’d have paid money to see that. Reminds me a newly minted (demoted) private who actually left his interceptor vest in the states to make room in his sea bag for booze (or so said the sign in front of him) while he filled sand bags with a MRE spoon in full combat gear.
HK VP70: The worst trigger ever! 20 pounds, or something like that. I could never get through a full magazine before putting it down and shooting something more fun.
Sold it for what I paid for it, but I still have 6 magazines for it in the safe…
Any 12 gauge shotgun loaded with slugs.
My Mossberg 930 9+1 shoots slugs with the recoil of a BB gun.
Diamondback DB9…jammed in ways unimaginable…breathtakingly awful gun
My DB9 didnt jam…until it had a catastrophic failure that bulged the chamber.
Took a while to rack the gun and remove the case.
Sent it back and they replaced the barrel and called it done. They couldnt/ wouldnt tell me what the problem was and the DB gunsmith got pissed when i asked. The gun would function bit it was onvious the frame rails were a little bent from the bulge.
Sold it at a loss with full disclosure on what had happened. No more DB stuff for me.
I love my 600 Mohawk. But I also know what it is. It’s a flipping tiny little cannon for killing the brown bear that’s behind the whale that is hiding behind the tree in front of you.
Besides, .350 Remington is way too expensive to bench rest. Plus, that little bastard HURTS.
I do believe I had the only glock 17 that was unreliable. Numerous fail to feed, fail to eject, mags failed to release. I still have it, cause I refuse to put it back in circulation.
But……………But……………….But…………..Glock
I win.
I Actually paid American Dollars for the low point of all low points in Colt History. I was a proud owner of a Colt All American 2000.
A Colt rep let me handle it a at NRA convention and confidently predicted this was the gun that would send Gaston back to Austria a poorer man.
It never would fire a magazine of hardball without a jam. The trigger was a joke. The show gun was obviously a ringer in that regard. When it did fire a few rounds,It was the unbelievably innaccurate.
After years of sitting in the safe, I sold it for nothing to never look at it again.
I have never trusted a Colt product since.
That was such a neat-looking pistol. Seemed to tick all the boxes for me.
Comfortable, simple, plenty of rounds. Too bad they didnt make it work before infecting the gun world with it.
That dog was a big mis-step for colt. It would have made up formthe Double Eagle if it had worked. And thats saying something.
There is also a hunk of plastic from either inside the frame or the grip safety that will break off if you shoot it very much. Pretty good-sized chunk. 2 of my brothers bought them from CDNN years ago for very little money. Got what they were worth…
Auto-Ordnance AO-130, the modern reproduction of the M1 Carbine. They should have named the rifle “The Jam-O-Matic Semi-Auto”.
Smith and Wesson model 60 pro series, great gun but hate shooting .357 mag in it.
.357 mag in a 23.4 oz gun ouch
Kahr CW40. Couldn’t get used to the long-as-f*** trigger pull. After overcoming the 10 miles of slack, the recoil (something I usually enjoy) felt horrendous. Traded it to a guy for a Mossberg 500 pretty quick.
It’d either have to be a “custom” Ruger Security Six that I traded my Springfield V16 for, or the Century Arms Golani that I saved up for month to buy.
The Six had a sub 3 inch barrel and the grips were slicked up and polished to a high shine. Translation being, the thing nearly flew out of my hand when I touched off any .357 magnums out of it.
Then there was the Golani. My ignorant self had heard that AKs were supreme weapons of war that could never be stopped, and that the AR was designed by Mattel, jamming more often than it would shoot. A smooth talking gun salesman convinced me that the Galil clone they had on hand was the end all rifle that had the best of all worlds. I got really good clearing jams and knocking stuck cases out of that thing. To know then what I know now.
My SIG P320…
Bought as a P320C-FLS, a short-lived variant that was basically a 4.7″ slide/barrel with a Compact grip module and mags. Made Dec ’17, bought by me at a curiously low price (sub-$400) from a TX shop. Had mil exp with pistol marksmanship but it’d been a couple of decades + hand injury 10 yrs ago, so kept things pragmatic getting back into plinking…
Despite the benefit of the doubt… I can’t hit shirt with this thing.
I know this, since poppers @25 yds are no big deal with a buddy’s Glock 17 nor his CZ P10C, so it’s most likely not a fundamental grip or injury-related cause, as those weapons have very different feel in the hand from each other. Maybe one of four rds will find steel with my OEM P320. Since I’ve heard & read exactly the opposite about the P320’s accuracy… changed to an X-Carry grip mod, GGI sear kit, Apex trigger shoe/bar and finally, a Faxon barrel — and exactly zero improvement in accuracy. OEM Glock 17 will run circles around this now-$800 autopistol…
The slide also moves up at the rear about the width of a wooden toothpick when the trigger is pulled, which bugs the ferk out of me when trying to zero for new ammo. Are these more examples of SIG’s notorious preemie R&D process they’ve been hammered for of late? Not like they’d fess up…
Since I’m not wasting a single cent more on this turd, next wad of cash will go to a boring old accurate Glock 45.
There are very few guns I would say I dislike shooting (provided they work) but one that nudges that line is my satin nickel Colt Combat Commander. Let me be clear, I love that gun, its good looking, a timeless classic, a christmas gift from my mother with fond memories attached, but the grip safety is a tiny nub and whoever was working that day had no interest in blunting the edges on it. If I shoot 50+ rds in a sitting with a bare hand it starts drawing blood. To top it off the sights have a 12 o’clock hold and I despise that set up for pistol sights.
Lee-Enfield No5 (aka the Jungle Carbine). Fire a full-power .303 and it lands in my lap.
I prefer to fire full-power 8×57 through a G33/40.
Even a M44 Mosin-Nagant is preferable.
And the farmer’s special single-barrel shotgun in 12gauge. Obviously carried a lot and used very rarely. Even the No5 is more pleasant.
I have a few blowbacks in 380 & Makarov caliber that have a pretty nasty recoil. But the worst has to be a friend’s 9mm snubby Charter-Arms Pitbull revolver, that he changed to smaller grips to make it “more concealable”. One cylinder full at the range was enough for me!
Anything with Taurus written on it. I have yet to handle a Taurus that isn’t an unsafe piece of crap.
I had two that I hated.
1) A Ruger Single Six Convertible (22 LR/ 22 Magnum) that couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn. I really wanted to like this gun, but my particular gun must have had a crooked barrel or something. I tried everything I could think of to make the accuracy acceptable: replaced the sights, added a red dot sight, added a scope (which wasn’t easy since this revolver isn’t designed for a scope mount), tried using 22 Mag ammo instead of .22 LR, but nothing helped the accuracy, couldn’t even get on paper at 25 yards (which is the closest distance we’re allowed to shoot at at my gun clubs), so I sold it to some poor unsuspecting buyer.
2) A Rossi Circuit Judge Rimfire, also convertible .22 LR/.22 Magnum. This gun is the reason I will never shoot a Rossi again, even if you gave me one free. Where do I start with this gun? I’ve literally seen toy cap-guns that were better quality! This gun was a “revolver rifle”, so you might think it would be as reliable as a revolver, but on the contrary, it was a jammomatic, jamming every other shot, the cylinder locking up so badly that it took two hands to cock the hammer, and firing it in double-action mode was impossible (about a 50-pound trigger pull because it would jam). The sights were flimsy plastic and were loose. The gun was dangerously defective, so many defects I can’t remember them all. Every time I fired a shot, especially when using .22 Magnum ammo, I got hit in the face with a painful blast of hot gasses, gunpowder, and possibly even lead fragments from bullets because the forcing cone didn’t line up with the barrel correctly! Accuracy was horrible, but since it was painful to shoot (getting a blast of hot gasses in the face with each shot) and a jammomatic, my son and I didn’t shoot it much. I tried to return it to the manufacturer, Rossi, to either fix the many defects or replace it, but Rossi refused to repair it! Rossi’s customer service was so awful that the gun store where I’d bought it took pity on me and gave me a refund out of their own pocket, because I explained how dangerously defective it was, stating truthfully that “I’ve seen toy cap guns with better quality.” Now I will never buy a Rossi again, even if it were free. Awful guns and abysmal customer service. Rossi won’t stand behind their guns (probably because they’d get hit with hot gasses in the face if they did!)
+1 on underfolding AKs. I’m not a fan of getting punched in the jaw every time I pull the trigger. Honorable mention to the Tavor though – I really liked it, except that I shoot left-handed and wasn’t a fan of it bouncing cases off my lip. I picked it up shortly before their advertised left hand conversion became a gunsmith-only operation, and I sent it on its way shortly after I heard about that.
@CZ
Ya. That was the other thing, I was severely bruised after even just that short session with the Yugo. I couldn’t see how I was going to be able to practice with it enough to gain the proficiency I needed with the thing banging me up like that.
I’d put Tavors, and bull pups in general, in the category of stuff I don’t hate but also don’t “get.” To me they seem really heavy and the center of gravity feels like it’s in a weird place, but I’ve noticed my guy friends who are big burly types seem to really like the feeling of shooting them so maybe having a lot more upper body bulk/strength makes them feel good. A friend brought a suppressed Tavor to a practice that he just loves, but I found the gas blowback nearly unbearable.
Then again, I don’t “get” things like the Mossberg Shockwave either…
Loved my Sr9c! Shot beautifully and was not hard to handle or work. Shoots way better than my glock 43. Haven’t had a problem with HK yet. Have a PK30 that is a wonderful gun and my fav 40 to shoot!
My bond arms 45 long colt/410 is my worst shooting gun of all. Just meant as a get off me gun or back up but hitting anything with it over a couple yards away is a hardy task.
A friend got a pistol gripped Mossberg 500 from his brother.
That was bar none, the most unpleasant firearm I’ve ever shot.
I would rather shoot a hundred rounds from a 90mm RCL than one from that monstrosity.
Agreed on the pistol-grip only Mossberg. Years ago while in college, a guy at the range I frequented back then offered to let me try a round or two with his Mossberg Persuader 12-gauge. I didn’t know the maniac had loaded up with three-inch magnum double-ought until I touched off that first, and last, round. I promptly handed the Mossberg back with a couple of obscenities and went home to ice my wrist. I haven’t shot a pistol-grip shotgun since. That, bar none, is my worst-ever experience with recoil.
I find the new Shockwave-style guns from Mossy and Remington interesting, and they say the birdshead-style Shockwave grips are much more comfortable and easier on the hand and wrist when shooting, but I think I’d carefully try a few rounds through one first, starting with low-brass field or trap loads, before buying one for myself.
you should try it with 3 1/2″ turkey shells. Hurts like hell, but the turkeys hate it worse.
The Beretta M12, hands down. Jam-o-matic, too heavy for its size and caliber. Beretta is a reputable company, but th3 M12 was a bad experience for me.
The Beretta M12, hands down. Jam-o-matic, too heavy for its size and caliber. Beretta is a reputable company, but the M12 was a bad experienc.
I still haven’t learned to stop buying Kel-Tec products. I’ve owned at least one example of all their product lines, and have maybe a 20% success rate on the gun proving reliable. However, even the reliable ones are still flimsy and bound to fail under hard use.
The winners have been an SU-16C (still regret selling that one), Gen2 Sub2k (after you mod the crap out of it to smooth the trigger and stop the cheek-slamming from the buffer tube), post-2014 KSGs, and a Gen2 PMR-30. Losers are the CMR-30, RFB, and all others. The RFB had a 40+ click range on the gas block, but even at the lowest setting that allowed it to cycle suppressed, it battered itself to death and separated the buttstock right into my shoulder. Getting it to cycle, suppressed or otherwise, was a crap shoot with any ammo type or brand.
Their designs are just so damn cool, but they really need to sell the designs to someone like Ruger that will strengthen the materials. Aluminum or thicker/more robust polymer for the frames, fewer steel-on-polymer wear points, etc. I ran a couple KSGs through a defensive shotgun course and they rocked it…until I got home and realized the bolt carrier has been wearing down on the polymer frame. Another few hundred rounds and the bolt was likely to seize up inside the rails.
Sold my Norinco SKS to fund my first CC handgun, a G27. That particular SKS was lucky to hit something in the same county you were aiming at. Sold the G27 when I figured out that I never carried it without a mag extension. That made it the same exact dimension as a G23. I’ve been rocking my G23 ever since. I shoot it well, and beat it to hell. Still reliable, never trendy.
I’ve bought and sold 3 SKSs. I hated every one and was glad to see them go. No idea why I kept trying to make them work.
Those SKSs from the Clinton era were a riot- NIB, covered with heavy cosmoline and $59 or less out the door at all the gun shows. Complete with tent peg, oiler, bandlier and other assorted goodies. (Now they’re bringing upwards of $300 at gun shows- or at least that’s the asking price.)
I think they must’ve been used as ballast in the container ships coming over from China- probably the money from them went through Wang Yun directly to Bill Clinton or his old lady. They had so much cosmoline on them I stood mine up at a car wash and blasted them with the high pressure wand.
Three come to mind for me, one was a 2″ barreled Smith and Wesson 44 magnum night-guard revolver made out of a material called scandium that weighed about as much as a hamburger bun. When you pulled the trigger a clap of thunder and a ball of flame the size of a basketball would erupt out of the muzzle, followed by intense blunt force trauma to your hands and wrists-BRUTAL! Second was a Rossi 44 magnum lever rifle that for some reason kicked like a 500 Nitro Express. The third gun that comes to mind was a Glock 27 that hated me…if I was alone it was the most accurate dependable gun I could hope for. If I had an audience (ie. group of loudmouth buddies or know-it-alls at the range it would jam and malfunction non stop. None of these stayed in the mix very long!
Thanks for making me laugh so hard, we need it in this world! I can imagine the powerful 44magnum off a burger bun is not the nicest feeling for the hands.
@JT
I have seen that scandium gun I think! In fact I’m pretty sure. Someone tried to get me to shoot that one. I was like, “You first, I’ll do it after you go thru a few cylinders.”
I’m surprised this one hasn’t made the list yet. Nagant revolver. The trigger pull is heavy as a battleship and as rough as a gravel driveway. It always shoots to the left and pie plate size groups are the best you’re gonna get out of it. I would have thrown it at a Nazi before I tried to shoot him with it.
Funny thing is I won’t sell it because it’s so horrible it’s kinda fun.
I bought a Kahr .40 S&W because it had unique sights, triangular, and I wanted to try them out. Proceeded directly to the range in the same shop, and when I pulled the trigger it did not go bang. I have kicked myself for a long time for not simply demanding a refund right then, but I tried again and it went off, so then it was “used”. It continued hit and miss, probably 50-50, and I noticed the primer strikes were very light. Turned out it was a new design gun, the first 1000 or so had a firing pin hole which was too tight, sent it back to the factory and it took 3 MONTHS for them to fix it, after which the problem was gone and I hated it so much I gave it to my kid brother who occasionally fires one or two rounds, but he didn’t have a handgun so it serves.
Larry, which Kahr was it? I have a K40 and it’s great. Some people buy their cheaper polymers though.
Had a 243 that I purchased years ago on sale. It was a short barreled rifle, think it was a Mohawk . Every time I shot the #@%&$@ thing it sounded like it blew up it was so loud. Mounted a scope on it and sold it for what I had in it.
Sig P320, it doesn’t even take Glock mags!
Colt Python. I must have shot mine 8 times at the most, sold it for $500 approx 6 years ago.
Well that post is a shocker. Your probably the only guy on the planet that hates the greatest .357 mag revolver ever made. By the way your gun now is probably worth close to 2,000 or more depending on condition. I bought my current gun about 3 years ago and paid $1800 for it as it was unfired. Its the most accurate .357 I have ever owned and has the best trigger pull of any revolver I have ever owned and the best outside finish with bluing so fantastic you can almost see your face in it. I remember years ago back at the dawn of civilization buying two of them brand new for the princely sum of $260 each. Those were the days of milk and honey never to come again.
the cbc version of the nylon66. it’s fine unless i load it with bullets. then all bets are off aside from the ones placed on it to fire at random. holes in the lawn, holes in the gazebo roof and very few if any into targets. forget drop safe, that thing isn’t even lift safe.
it belongs stranded on a bench at the next dnc.
I never owned it, but the gun I hated the most of all is the Sub-2000. And I really, really wanted to love it. But I could not get a sight picture on that thing to save my life.
Actually shooting? An AK like that shown in the pics. Uncomfortable rattle box.
Owning? A Kahr K9. Unreliable piece of trash. Went back to Kahr three times. Still wouldn’t run.
Shot 50 rounds in my Charter .44 spl. Bulldog. Once. Trigger cut my trigger finger and the trigger guard cut my middle finger. Kicked harder than any .44 mag with full house loads I’d ever tried. Desperately tried to sell it. Succeeded after 5 years and was happy to take a $60 loss on it.
My grandfather’s Winchester 290. I shoot left and still get asked on a rare occasion why I have a hickey.
i don’t keep guns i don’t like, that’s just counter intuitive. so its pretty simple really.
The two rifles I hated most were the SOCCOM 16 and the PS90. The muzzle blast on the SOCCOM 16 was blinding and the muzzle brake was integral to the functioning of the gas system at the time I had it and it was not replaceable. Follow up shots were difficult as a result when shooting in low light. The PS90 ejected brass out the bottom and frequently down the sleeve of a jacket or shirt. Mine was in the first lot with the built in optical sight and would wash out in bright light and was too dim in low light. The lack of support for reloading the 5.7×28 cartridge was also disappointing. For a pistol I have never been able to do well with glocks due to the grip angle. They always ran fine and if I did my part they shot accurately enough. Muscle memory makes me tend to shoot them high under stress, given the cottage industry that has been created to mofify the grip angle it appears I am not alone.
Kahr CW380/P380. No matter how many cases of ammo and polishing of feed ramps, all confidence was lost in the platform. At the time, this small 380 offered surprising accuracy and very lean dimensions, but I’m not sure if I could make it past two mags without a FTE. Looking at the recoil spring assembly and its chinsy construction may explain the CW380/P380s shortcomings.
Every military Mauser rifle I’ve owned, regardless of caliber, has beaten up my cheek every time. The latest gun I hated to shoot was a Desert Eagle .50AE. It had a beautiful Tyler Gun Works color casehardened finish and walnut grip, but it tried to tear itself out of my hands with every shot…an ergonomic nightmare…at least in my small hands.
Beretta 950 jetfire, I didn’t hate it but it never went through an entire mag without the barrel latch failing and popping open. To bad to, i wanted to like it. Ended up giving it to my brother-n-law.
I once owned a custom built Siamese Mauser chamber for 45-70. It was a gorgeous rifle but it only weighed 6 pounds. A day at the range with this gun was 3 rounds and it would beat me bloody black and blue. I have no idea who bought it. Hopefully they displayed it in their gun cabinet and never shot the damned thing.
Ruger Blackhawk .44 mag with cowboy grips. That thing shreds the webbing between my thumb and finger. I also hate the M9 Berreta’s big stupid grips.
Hands down the Keltec P40, when Tennesse went “shall issue” you were required to qualify with your intended carry gun. Four hours of range time and about two hundred rounds later my index fingers were so sore from the battering of the little hand cannon I was nearly in tears. I didn’t need four hours to qual with one gun, I qualified with two. Between the 25# dao trigger pull and the trigger guard whacking the s**t out of my trigger fingers they both were in agony. Incidently there was only a couple of ftf’s all day, both related to the operator getting pinky meat caught between the grip and magazine floor plate. That was around 1984, I carried them until Glock had covinced me of their reliabilty and I bought a 23 and a 27. I just recently sold the P40s.
One gun I’ve not shot and also haven’t seen on this list is the Taurus Judge line of revolvers. I’ve done some shooting with 3″ .410s in a 10″ Contender but these things (da Judge) had to be both brutal at the grip end and ineffective at the muzzle past 6 feet, even with the new rounds intended for them. They were THE rage at gun shows for some time but seem to have gone away for the most part. Maybe the fact that one hasn’t been posted here shows that a lot of TTAG people are smarter than their posts often make then seem.
Mine was a Giock19, terrible trigger, grip feels like a 2×4, terrible grip angle, worst sights I have ever seen. My Taurus m99, Browning Hi Power and EAA Witness are much easier to shoot accurately, have a much better trigger pull and fit my hand perfectly compared to a Glock.
All the Glock fanboys say “just practice a lot and you will learn to get used to the grip and trigger and just add after market sights”, in my opinion I shouldn’t have to relearn how to shoot for just one gun when almost every other pistol on the market fit my hand perfectly, or close to it.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/11/daniel-zimmerman/mossberg-introduces-new-shockwave-models/
And after seeing this, I’ll assume there’ll be some of these in 12 ga added to the list as time goes by.
Colt .380 which would stovepipe every brand of round. I should have taken up the issue with Colt, but sold it instead. Never bought another Colt after that.
I had a S&W M&P 9mm pistol that always dumped brass on top of my head or in my face (tried many kinds of ammo). I researched the problem on internet and learned that many others had the same issue. Some had sent theirs to S&W numerous times and problem wasn’t fixed. So I sold it. Also, I hate all DA only guns.
I’m ony76, so I haven’t shot that one yet.
Understand a couple of your “hated shooting” guns, but my VP9 was a favorite from the get-go. Four other shooters, two new to non-military guns, have bought one after handling mine. I have a medium-size hand, both hands damaged, and am over 60 jahren alt. I love my VP9, and while trading other “good” guns for “better” ones, the VP9 has remained a root gun. Especially after installing an Arachnigrip, I have no problems racking it, loading it, firing it, or anything. I’ve bought guns that I found hateful (original R51, for example, because after 9 rds it jammed and Rem couldn’t fix it), and had issues with certain other ones (original G42 that now is a sweet shooter). But the VP9 remains a favorite. So I know any particular unit can be the pits. A good armorer can help that, but if it don’t work, dump it. Then get one you trust more or try someone else’s to be sure it’s the gun and not the unit.
The Ruger SR9 is my main carry gun. For which I have quite a few magazines, all of which I loaded quick and easy with the small metal tool that came with the gun. Even so I have loaded those magazines full without the tool which I admit was an effort. The SR9 was far from a first gun (by decades and a bunch of guns) and was chosen for the fit to my hand, and generally because I like Ruger. This has not been a difficult to load or rack gun for me. Although I can see how it could be that for petite women.
The thing is if you buy the wrong gun for you, that is not the gun’s fault. You made the wrong choice, or somebody gave you poor advice. Or something of that nature. Just keep learning and try to do better next time.
The worst gun I ever fired….I’m a researcher in my retirement, so also do a lot of research prior to buying a gun (or other things) to prevent mistakes and problems where possible. (Smokey Robinson: “Mistakes, I know I’ve made a few, but I’m only human…”) When I can, I shoot the gun at the range before buying, but that’s difficult to do in Cheyenne. There’s a place in Ft. Collins, and if they have that model for rent, I’ll try it there. The only gun I hated, I loved for 8 rounds, then on the 9th it jammed after firing. After 6 weeks Remington couldn’t even find it, so I demanded and got a refund. The R-51 looked good, felt good (up to that point), but the 9th round did not eject, and the slide would not move. Local gunsmith gave up on why since he couldn’t remove the slide to look. Armorer sent it to Remington, and the above happened. So I was glad to be rid of it. I understand there’s an updated version, reviews say it’s better, but I won’t take the chance. Later info mentioned they were in some kind of corporate consolidation in that period, the R-51 had been released too soon. Otherwise, of the other 60 guns bought (a few kept, many sold or traded), few had more than temporary issues, and continue to shoot well (for me).
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