The Gun Rights Movement Is Far Bigger Than Any One Organization

1. That’s been the reality for many years. The NRA has just about reached the end of their run. Which is too bad, but is their own fault.

   • I am a NRA life member who says things that that some of the holier than thou groups don’t say and won’t say. So never mind rolling the NRA into one ball of wax, as long as I and other NRA Members are defending the 2A the NRA is alive and well.

     • Furthermore…The question for those who insist on complicating matters and accomplishing nothing but playing into the hands of Gun Control zealots…

       Was slavery and all of its baggage abolished or not? As long as there is Gun Control the answers are No and Hell No.

   • It’s about time they…[the NRA].. got some competition…it’s a healthy sign….

2. “The number of generally pro-gun rights states outnumbers those that pass gun control measures 40 to 10, although the latter have more people, so the country’s population is about evenly divided between the two camps.”

   Thirty-four states are required to call an Article V convention and thirty-eight states are required to ratify any amendments proposed at that convention.

   Can an Article V convention requirements be satisfied and resulting amendment be rarified by having thirty-eight states propose the exact same amendment in legislation to call the convention for that amendment only (i.e. – no actual convention is held because the legislation automatically ratifies the said amendment)?

   • An Article V convention is a very bad idea since it is not possible to limit the scope of that convention; the convention to fix the Articles of Confederation turned into the Constitutional Convention. The Constitution immediately needed amendment so it could be adopted, thus the Bill of Rights.

     Are you going to pass an amendment that says we really really mean the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed? The plain language of the 2nd Amendment is already being ignored by the various states and the feds, we just need to push hard to force everyone to comply. Push in the courts, push in elections, kick to the curb everyone who doesn’t support our rights!

     • I think that we are altogether too afraid of our own state legislatures. I.e., that we should fear that 13 of our legislatures would fail to do their duty.

       Nevertheless, suppose I conceded that this fear – of just 13 legislatures – were well-enough founded. What then would be the solution to resolve this fear? (I.e., can we figure this out?)

       Isn’t it so that we ought to attend to the make-up of the 13 most trusted legislatures (plus a few more to be more confident in the result)? Nationally, we identify the 13, 14, or 15 of the most trusted legislatures and mount a campaign with the voters in these states?

       We figure out what we ought to be interested in promoting; and what we ought to be on guard against. Persuade voters in these states to vote for legislative candidates who adhere to these objectives.

       Thereupon, we could move forward with a Convention of the States without fear that they might propose some “run-away” amendments which couldn’t be stopped by 13 reliable states.

       Isn’t this choice preferable to merely turning what remains of our republic over to Blue and Purple states?

       • Excellent, Mark. Most people I speak (or write) with don’t pick up on the “13 States” point.

         This very same point is what I use to illustrate the reality that the 2A will never be removed or altered by the Left in D.C., because it only takes 13 courageous States to block the effort. The fact that were now at more than 20 with “constitutional carry” secures it.

       • Basic natural corruption is sufficient to allow any such convention to run away, regardless of what precautions you think you have put in place.

         Further, there is no legislature in the country that can be trusted. Do you trust ours here in PA? They just shat all over us the day after they were out on the state capital steps proclaiming their 2A bonafides. Are you suggesting that I trust these 2 faced backstabbers to go into a convention and not do exactly what they have done for the 20 years I have been in PA?

       • Hey Haz why weren’t you at the Frank Speech yesterday? My pillow CEO and future President Mike Lindell was there spitting truth bombs. But you didn’t go due to a severe case of cowardice…

       • Because nowadays you can watch speeches online, Hail. It’s 2021.

       • “But you didn’t go due to a severe case of cowardice…”

         That’s a good one! 😉

         The real coward hides behind many different names, lacking the testicular fortitude to show its true face.

         Oh, and refuses his civic duty to not spread lethal diseases by refusing to TAKE HIS MEDICINE… 😉 😉 😉 😉 😉

     • Rusty,

       Agree. Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Mike Bloomberg, and every lefty billionaire, as well as the full force of the Derp State and the CCP will be mobilized to shred the foundations of this country through an Article V convention. Geeze, the GOP just collaborated with the Dems to run a coup-de-etas this past Nov. Full out treason. No. We must not allow a Convention os the states. It will be the end of freedom.

       • BS. If you can’t think for yourself, then go get Mark Levin’s excellent book that will explain “Convention of States” to you.

         Now about 15state of the 34 needed have signed on. NONE are prog homelands.

       • Neiowa,

         I can and do think for myself. But, I guess since you read Mark Levin’s book, you have it all figured out.

         BTW, excellent tactic: to convince someone that you have a better perspective, begin by insulting that person. Then, proclaim your superior knowledge. I am sure that works for you all the time.

         In the end, the massive fraud and treason that was engineered this past November illustrates the risk we would face with a Constitutional Convention. No matter what book you read, November was the real-world experience.

         But then, maybe you don’t believe there was any fraud. Oh well…

   • Once more, with feeling….

     Specifically, what can be done via a Constitutional Convention, that will change much of anything? Specifically?

     Read Article 5 very carefully. The rules of procedure for the CC will be a street fight. How are delegates chosen, with which charter (nightmare, right there)? Who pays for the convening (Zoom? owned and operated by CCP?)

     Proposed amendments are only “proposed”, and not effective until ratification. Congress tells the states (used to be “States”) how the ratification process will be done. There is no time limit between the time the requisite number of states notify congress of the demand for a CC and when Congress issues instructions on ratification.

     If there were enough states to call a convention, there should be enough votes in those states to change Congress via normal elections.

     Once the proposed amendments are ratified (even creating the proposed amendments will be a fist fight among the delegates), the very same political landscape that triggered the CC will apply and interpret those amendments…just like today. (Think Heller/McDonald Supreme Court rulings that are ignored across the land and all the other Leftist legislation; Communist states will still outnumber free states.)

3. The NRA has NEVER been pro-gun. Their entire history has been one of compromise, compromise, compromise. The NRA needs to die so that gunowners will join organizations like GOA who believe in never compromising. Good riddance, NRA.

   • You sir are a flaming moron.

   • What Colleen Long (author of the article we’re responding to) and many others do not seem to grasp is that the majority of “State Associations” and “State Gun Organizations” are the Official State Affiliates of NRA and are therefor, connected to NRA.

     For years, for example, the majority of lobbying effort and resistance to onerous red tape regulations in Iowa was home-based (Iowa Sportsmen’s Federation, for the most part) as far as the laws and regulations we pushed or battled against, and Iowa was ahead of the game as far as “need to retreat”/castle doctrine-type liberties, property rights and self-defensive actions. We received some financial help from NRA ILA when needed but the actors then, as now (Iowa Firearms Coalition, also an NRA State Affiliate) came from within Iowa, where our primary concern is the rights and liberties of Iowans first. This is how it should be, local people standing for themselves. I always will support this concept.

     I’m a vocal advocate of NRA over every other “gun rights” organization, however, because NRA is a comprehensive organization, with programs for training, safety, marksmanship, youth safety, youth training, women’s programs, military and law enforcement programs, competitions in various genre, etc., etc, and then there’s NRA ILA (Institute for Legislative Action), which is the lobbying arm directing pressure on US and state legislatures, supprting 2A-friendly candidates and general improvement of everyone’s Second Amendment liberties and rights. None of the other “gun groups” cover the areas under which NRA was founded, and it’s pretty safe to state that had firearms accidents not been brought down to an historically-insignificant level, Americans would have had a very difficult time maintaining the the RTKBA past, say, 1954 or so.

     It needs to be pointed out constantly to those who think “history” began yesterday that there really was no organization dedicated entirely to the continuation and preservation of the Second Amendment prior to GCA’68, and more likely, prior to 1975 when ILA was formed. NRA chose to add activism to their already-large list of programs. GOA, NAGR, FPC, et al never had, nor never will, run the programs that provide tens of millions of Americans a reason to own a firearm OR SHOOT other than self protection or to stop the march towards central government tyranny. While many on this site disregard those they deride as “FUDDS”, they would, and I hope not will, find it very difficult to carry on the Second Amendment in any form without all gun owners; casual, hobbyist or avid. And, as I’ve said here many times, should NRA be closed down and if the MSM and their chosen pols can direct their efforts towards the smaller groups like GOA, they’ll all die out in a month, if only because of the legal costs.

     FWIW- if you’re an NRA member eligible to vote in the 2021 Board of Directors election, make certain to actually tear the ballot from your June/July publication, follow the instructions vote, and return it by Aug 15.

     Don’t know any of the candidates?

     Vote for me, Craig Swartz, Adel, Iowa. I’ve worked the legislatures and advocated the 2A for 40 years or so yet can not be tied to any NRA policies. I’ve spent my own time, efforts and money and, as one of the regular shooters/collectors/recruiters/advocates, would have those individuals in mind, not celebrities or icons most will never meet.

     https://youtu.be/0OHH49vtl2g

     • Very well said.

       I think here, as in many other things, the best approach is both/and. I joined the NRA in 2016 and let my membership lapse in 2019…if I hadn’t, I’d be able to vote for the BoD this year. (And you would definitely have my vote, but that’s a moot point.)

       Recently signed up for an annual membership with the FPC. I also need to get off my butt and get active in a state-level gun org. And probably rejoin the NRA. It’s not expensive…and even if all the NRA does politically is draw enemy fire at the national level so smaller, more nimble advocates can deliver pressure under the radar, that’s a worthwhile result.

       Both/And.

4. The next step is to break the big two party monopoly, at least at the state and local level.

   • This seems like a good idea on the surface, however, once we break into 3 parties, the winner can be chosen with only 34% of the entire vote. (Think Italy, France, perhaps you in NZ) If Americans believe they’re being cheated now with only “real” 2 parties, imagine what would happen with 4 viably-run ones and the winner ended up with 26%. No, thanks.

     Seriously, if people would get off their couches, get away from their buddies and the bitch sites on the internet, actually educate themselves as to the confines of the US Constitution, their own responsibilities as citizens to act and vote to preserve it, and do some research into the candidates and their advocated policies, the US would be down to a 1-party majority, not 2. Even today, most Americans would rather keep most of what they earn and accrue, be free to live as they choose without big brother’s intervention so long as they don’t affect someone else’s life, and be able to pass on their long-held beliefs and traditions to their children and grandkids.

   • “The next step is to break the big two party monopoly, at least at the state and local level.”

     Last time that was tried, we got Clinton elected as the prize. (H. Ross Perot)

     What you propose cannot work, because where are you going to get the voters to put you over the top? Whoever you peel away from the right ensures the Leftist Scum will win. The same goes for them, in reverse.

     If there’s one good thing about the extreme polarization, it’s pretty easy to see who’s who…

     • What do you mean?
       A third party candidate of some kind almost ALWAYS runs…state, local, and national. It’s just kinda rare we hear much about it. That’s the major media. The same ones that lie to us about everything. Perot got attention because of the fact that he was actually gaining some degree of traction aswell as the way he talked about things. The idea of ‘breaking the two party system’ has been around for a very long time.

       • A third party candidate rarely has the money, volunteer network, or infrastructure to run a campaign that even has a chance to get to 1/3 or so if the vote that would be the best case for winning. It can happen. Perot is an exception, although he got 15-20%, which was enough of a spoiler to get Clinton in. In Colorado a few cycles back, the GOP nominated a quasi-corrupt do nothing for governor, and Tom Tancredo got 40%+ of the vote, but not enough to beat Hickenlooper. Gov. Jesse Ventura is probably the highest elected 3rd party candidate, but he also had celebrity name recognition. Bernie Sanders has won as an independent/socialist for House and Senate, but switches to Dem for Presidential runs because he would have no chance otherwise.

       • @ Anymouse
         That’s my point.

5. See, all you have to do is kick that contemptible troll Geoff in the teeth a few times and he slinks away like the true coward he is.

   • Piss off clown

   • Pathetically stealing my insults now?

     Little boy, (very little, most likely), you will never best me in a battle of wits, because you have no sense of humor.

     None, zero, zip, nada.

     And there isn’t a damn thing you can do about it except rage at the ones who are laughing at you. You heard right, ones. There’s NO ONE backing you up in TTAG, and you know it.

     That’s the cruelest “kick in your teeth” in your ugly face there is.

     You will eventually slink away like a little yap dog that gets nothing but kicks, and I’m just gonna laugh, laugh, and laugh some more… 😉

   • Geoff got kicked in the teeth, Who did it?
     Ohhh I see your talking internet kicked in the teeth. LOL, I thought you meant for real.

6. Yeah we gotta a lot of supposedly pro gun orgs…in ILL we got ISRA who negotiates our rights away. NRA playbook on a state level. I don’t want a lifetime FOID card- want it gone! Hope you can hide that brace😕

   ..

   • ISRA has a long term plan and has lobbyists at every IL Legislative Session.
     Wheres the NRA at? Running away from what is perceived as an unwinnable battle.
     https://isra.org/News/isra-thursday-bulletin-june-3-2021
     The key to this link is: “In the end, I would like to remind everyone that neither one of these bills passed. For the record, the HB562 bill was 195 pages long. Also, please keep in mind that if these bills were passed, they would not go into effect until 2024.”
     I read all 195 pages and that bill is a mess ripe with very questionable wording.
     It will easily be challenged in court and did not pass this session, regardless of what was posted on here. My take on this in three years the FOID will be gone if SCOTUS takes up one of ISRAs lawsuits.
     Until you move out of Illinois ISRA is all you have fighting for you.
     I would love to move back if the FOID was gone. I was born and lived in IL until almost two years ago.
     I have friends and family there.
     ISRA didn’t sell out, they are playing a longer term game which is about anyone can do in IL.
     Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

7. Societal bickering over the right to keep and bear arms has existed since–pretty much forever. (I forget the exact reference: there is some reference of the same dispute in ancient Roman records of some sort or something to that effect.)

   Human nature is human nature and, in spite of people who desperately wish otherwise, does not change nor “evolve” over time. There always has been and always will be Karens and evil people among us who wish to disarm the masses. The only uncertainty is whether “good” people will have enough resources, unity, strength, and resolve to repel the push to disarm us. World history clearly demonstrates that the odds are NOT in our favor.

   • and yet more people have more guns now than ever before.

     • “and yet more people have more guns now than ever before.”

       It isn’t the number of guns, but the number of staunch, active, prepared to revolt gun owners. To date, we have no information on that (and if we did, they would all be arrested).

       • It is better to NOT have those numbers.

         These things all go hand in hand. Someone’s desire/will/aptitude towards self defense or ‘fighting the bad guy’ is almost meaningless without the tools to do it. Those that are so inclined are ONLY likely to be of any kind of help as long as they actually have access to these tools. It’s the same thing with money, knowledge, or anything else in life.

       • No sht.
         I like looking up stuff on the internet but I’m about to go burner phone and keep it in a tin box.
         I procrastinate too much.

8. I don’t give a flying fork about any gun laws enacted by liberal satanists. They are automatically null and void.

   God himself created the 2nd amendment…Per the advice Jesus gave to the Apostles after he arose from the dead on Easter:
   Luke (22:35-38): “……….It is different now, whoever has a purse had better take it with him, and his pack too; AND IF HE HAS NO SWORD, LET HIM SELL HIS CLOAK TO BUY ONE.”

   Who can go against the word of God ????

   I refuse to be dominated by liberal satanists whose only good purpose in life is as a target. God made it quite clear what he recommends….

9. Missouri is passing a law where local police won’t help feds with gunm things.

10. One might allege that the elephant in the room is if the flag above might contravene the U.S. Flag Code.

    Has Francis lightened up yet?

    Ain’t I a stinker.

11. Peter Gunn said:
    “One might allege that the elephant in the room is if the flag above might contravene the U.S. Flag Code.”

    Are you kidding me? I downloaded that flag and printed it out. It is TOTALLY AWESOME !!

    How better to exemplify the importance of the 2nd Amendment than that….

    Republican Elephant in the room, indeed… 🙂 🙂

    • The Republican elephant is indeed in the room…

      but the real trick was getting him out of the closet.

      Ba Dum Tss!

      • You can sell off about 30 rounds of that flag and buy plus properly display 20 American flags. It’s the correct color and isn’t be used as wearing apparel.
        It literally screams AMERICA!
        If someone from England saw it they would pass out, convulse or both.
        “The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.”
        Doesn’t “busting caps” involve burning powder?
        On top of all that it’s Flag Day so let it fly proudly.

      • Well, I’m left no option but to que Ringo to follow that rimshot with a drumroll to announce (what really shouldn’t have to be explained)…

        It’s not a U.S. Flag. Neither is Chris Cheng’s shirt. Nor is the rainbow stars and stripes.

        None.
        Are.
        U.
        S.
        Flags.
        Period.
        Ending.

        The U.S. Flag Code only applies to actual U.S. Flags and the physical alteration thereof. These are not actual U.S. Flags- they are creative interpretations that may bear some resemblance to an actual U.S. Flag, but they are not physically altered actual U.S. Flags.

        But for far too many- it’s all about the drama…

        • I’ll take the ammo, you can have the shirt.
          No drama involved.

12. The gun rights movement may be bigger but it’s VERY poorly organized. Just like almost
    ALL conservative movements. The ONE THING the commie left is VERY good at is getting
    organized, getting ALL their sycophants on the same page and pushing for the same things.
    THAT is why they are winning.

    • but are they winning?…conservatives are notoriously slow to respond…but eventually they do

13. 2A Rights score another Victory.
    Missouri Gov. Mike Parson signs bill banning local enforcement of federal gun laws | KTVOhttps://ktvo.com/news/local/missouri-gov-mike-parson-signs-bill-banning-local-enforcement-of-federal-gun-laws

    • don’t think it mattered much at Waco…

14. I’d be curious to see what the ratio of Gun Owners to Gun Owners Who Belong To A Pro 2A group(s) really is. Is it 10:1, 50:1, 100:1 or more? It has to high, because even if we add the membership numbers of all the various Pro 2A organizations together, it’s a fraction of what we know are first time buyers/owners in the last year.
    I’ve several friends that are Gun Owners who don’t belong to any 2A organization, in spite of my attempts to recruit them. Even if they’d just get involved at the Local or even State level, it’s better than no involvement at all.
    So it seems to me that recruiting efforts are lackadaisical. Add in, the constant solicitation for funds even after one joins an organization, and that gets old real quick. Whether it’s the NRA, FPC, GOA or any of the others, they never stop asking for more $$$.
    When I’ve asked people why they won’t join, the neverending solicitation is reason I hear 99% of the time for their lack of interest.
    I don’t have an answer to the dilemma, just observations from my 50 years of involvement in the 3 organizations I donate to yearly. To me, the constant solicitation is a factor in why participation is lower than we’d all like to see. Yes, I know Lawyers and Litigation cost a lot, thanks to our corrupted Judicial System. The biggest Pay to Play scheme in our history.

    Just my ramblings.

    • “To me, the constant solicitation is a factor in why participation is lower than we’d all like to see.”

      I have called SAF three times now asking them in person to please stop wasting the money I’m sending them by sending it back to me in the form of asinine, intelligence-insulting “Official Gunowner Survey” mail-outs that are merely miserably masqueraded solicitations. I’m already regularly sending them money- why do they feel the need to continually irritate and insult someone already supporting them.

      During the second call they offered to take me off of their mailing list, and I said I’d really appreciate that- I just want my money being spent where it counts. The next month my “Critical Info: 2021 Gunowner Survey Enclosed” letter arrived. So I had to call yet again…

      This time I suggested that since I’m probably not the only SAF member who prefers not having my money wasted on solicitations, I had an idea I wanted to share with them: for each month I don’t receive a solicitation from SAF in the mail- I’ll make a donation. For every mail solicitation I receive- I won’t make a donation for a month. He said he’d pass my suggestion along, and to demonstrate my earnestness- I made a $50 donation right then on the phone.

      In less than a month, I received another SAF mail solicitation. I’m refraining from donating again until SAF can go just one single month without insulting my intelligence. This shouldn’t be as hard as SAF is making it- just leave me alone and you’ll get a monthly donation from me. Easy peasy, right? Well, one would think so…

      If SAF reads this- please stop soliciting paying members who wish to not be solicited- it’ll be more lucrative for both of us.

      To any SAF members who wish the solicitations to stop- call and offer to make regular donations to them in exchange for being left alone.

      To anyone not already a member of SAF- JOIN! (and ask them to stop soliciting members who want their money spent on the fight- not wasteful, annoying mail).

      My ramblings on BB’s ramblings.

    • FPC never stops begging for money…..

15. You blew it, shot yourselves in the foot. You stupid 🖕🐀💩👜🦨🥊! I or no one in my family will ever give you a dime again!!! The second amendment foundation will get all my money! Wayne for jail!

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