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If you like your home defense shotgun, you can keep your home defense shotgun. This article is not for you. I’m not going to convince you to ditch one of the — if not the most — lethal close-quarters combat firearms made by hand of man. An incredibly dependable gun that can fire everything from less lethal rounds to one-ounce slugs (delivering over 3,100 ft-lbs of energy). If you want a genuine conversation stopper, the shotgun is it. That said, the shotgun has a few dramatic shortcomings for home defense . . .

For one thing, the National Firearms Act prohibits Americans from owning shotguns with a barrel length shorter than 18 inches or an overall length shorter than 26 inches. Negotiating the confines of your standard-issue middle-class house wielding a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 is a daunting prospect. Doing it during an adrenaline dump, exponentially so.

Shotguns are fairly heavy firearms. While the aforementioned adrenaline surge tempers the weight issue in the heat of battle, the size and recoil of your average 12-gauge (loaded with double-ought buckshot) makes the weapon a “guy thing.” In other words, for a lot of people (read: women and smaller folk), the shotgun is an intimidating firearm to wield. Confidence is low.

Weapons retention is also an issue. If the bad guy gets within bad breath distance of the shotgun-armed home defender, the perp can grab the firearm’s 18″ barrel, preventing a successful conclusion to the incident. Or much, much worse.

Shotguns are also INCREDIBLY LOUD. Setting aside the danger of permanent hearing loss (i.e. sacrificing hearing for survival), a deafening shotgun blast is extremely disorienting. Most home defenders would have tremendous difficulty orienting themselves for follow-up shots, or other tactical operations.

Home defense shotguns also require two hands. That’s not good in a situation bound to require non-firearms-related manual tasks, such as opening doors, grabbing kids, calling 911, or manipulating a flashlight. Sure, you can put a light on your shotgun. But most people are not trained to use indirect illumination. They’d be muzzling all and sundry, most likely with their finger planted on the trigger.

Which brings us to the most important shortcoming of all: operator error.

All of the above challenges can be ameliorated with proper training. You can learn how to negotiate corners and tight spaces holding a shotgun. You can buy smaller, lighter, more female-friendly shotguns. A simple corkscrew motion will remove a bad guy from the end of a home defense shotgun (as will firing them). And, again, you can bounce weapon-mounted light off of reflective surfaces.

But let’s face it: most people who buy home defense shotguns have no training whatsoever. They buy a shotgun and throw it under their bed, lean it against a closet wall or put it up on a high shelf. If push came to ballistic shove, there’s a high chance they’d miss their target (a possibility of which they are barely aware). Even among those who do train, well, I’ve seen at least a dozen people short-stroke a pump-action shotgun in the heat of action.

There are plenty of other alternatives to a home defense shotguns. Many gun folk rely on bedside handguns or AR-15s. Now, though, there’s an even better perhaps even ideal solution: the new SIG SAUER MPX semi-automatic pistol, equipped with a SIG brace.

Nick had a first look at this bad boy – in full auto – back in April [click here to read his review]. I had my first encounter with the semi-auto SIG-braced set-up yesterday at The Texas International Firearms Festival. The gun’s shorter than my forearm and holds 30 9mm rounds. It’s entirely accurate and endlessly ergonomic. Recoil is minimal. In short (so to speak), it’s a pussy cat.

We hear that the MPX will cost about the same as a lower-priced AR-15. Which raises the question posed by this article: why would an average gun owner choose a home defense shotgun over the smaller, lighter, more user-friendly SIG-braced MPX? Especially when you consider the fact that MPX owners are 100 times more likely to take the SIG to a gun range and play with it (i.e. practice)than a shotgun?

Because they don’t know any better. OK, yes, lethality. Only I reckon lethality is more a factor of operator skill than weapon choice. A gun owner who chooses the wrong firearm for their skill level starts out behind the proverbial eight ball. The vast majority of armed Americans would be better off using a SIG SAUER MPX than a home defense shotgun.

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242 COMMENTS

  1. How much shorter is this than a Tavor w/upgraded trigger? Cuz I still kinda want the latter.

    • My guess is not at all. My PAP M92 with a brace and muzzle break is actually several inches longer than my Tavor.

    • The reason I prefer something like this for HD to the Tavor is that I can suppress it to hearing-safe levels. I feel just freakin’ fine with 30+ rounds of Federal HST. It may not be 30 rounds of 5.56 but for most home invasion scenarios I don’t feel like the extra blast is needed. My 9mm AR-15 pistol with stubby barrel and Sig brace is just under 2 inches longer than the Tavor with nothing on the Tavor’s muzzle. Add a suppressor to it and now it’s the longer option, plus it’s far from hearing safe indoors even suppressed.

      In fact, I’m hoping that Sig wins this “silencer” lawsuit because the specific firearm I want for HD purposes is the MPX pistol with the ready-to-suppress barrel. The one with the built-in muzzle brake on it that you can purchase right away and then wait for your tax stamp on the shroud that turns the brake into baffles and, viola, you have an integrally suppressed 9mm “pistol” that’s really an SBR that’s really the perfect HD firearm, IMHO.

      • If IWI didn’t want $900 for the 9mm conversion kit, a 9mm tavor with a nice short can on it would be really sweet.

      • NFA stuff for home defense is a REALLY bad idea. It opens you up to tons of legal issues if you have to shoot someone(s).

        • I’ve heard that theory many times, but have never seen it demonstrated in actual legal cases. A silencer to protect yourself from permanent hearing damage should you have to discharge a firearm inside of your house is not some weird “gun nut” thing. I don’t feel that it will be branded as similar to having a registered machine gun as your bedside firearm and opening up full auto on some home invader. Cases where somebody breaks into your home and especially if they clearly demonstrate violent intentions are pretty cut-and-dry self defense cases, especially in states with castle doctrines or similar law. A suppressor should not change this and unless somebody can actually show me real cases where the gun owner was branded in a negative light or prosecuted when they otherwise likely would not have been just because they defended themselves with a suppressed firearm, I will choose to suppress my HD firearms.

        • +1 Nick.

          Commit a crime of violence with a suppressed weapon and you’re looking at a 30 year mandatory federal sentence.
          18 USC 924(c)(1)(B)(ii)

          Look at it this way . . . If you are in a George Zimmerman situation with a suppressed weapon, they aren’t going to need to try and twist the law into a pretzel to get you on some federal civil rights charges — if they can get you on some state law offense, then Uncle Whisker has an open and shut case to send you to Club Fed for thirty years.
          No thanks. Lots easier to just keep some ear pro near your house gun.

        • @ Dev:

          How many times do they twist, distort and misapply federal laws to prosecute individuals, do you reckon?

        • @LKB

          Is a crime of violence the same as self defense? You aren’t breaking into someone’s home with a suppressor equipped, you are defending your home with a hearing protection device.

        • “How many times do they twist, distort and misapply federal laws to prosecute individuals, do you reckon?”

          In this case it appears to be zero times. That’s my point. I 100% completely and totally understand the reservations folks have about using any sort of NFA item for home defense. However, there is no instance anybody has ever been able to produce of this leading to prosecution — being prosecuted when you otherwise would not have been or losing a case when you otherwise wouldn’t, or even a single example of it being brought up by a DA during a trial or hearing as anything out of the ordinary or bad.

          Here is a big report done in 2007 on silencer case law. That is, all cases tried that involved silencers. http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/Silencer-caselaw.pdf

          In order for me to suffer a more vigorous prosecution because I had a silencer on my home defense firearm I would have to 1) shoot somebody in my home with it and 2) do that under questionable enough circumstances that charges are brought — and this is pretty freaking rare in the case that you shoot somebody who has forcibly broken into your house. In the highly unlikely event that I am forced to discharge my firearm at a home intruder I expect a significantly lower-still likelihood that the circumstances are in any way questionable, and then an even lower-still likelihood that responding officers choose to make an issue out of it due to living in a relatively conservative area where the rights of a homeowner to defend his/her property are taken pretty seriously. I personally would never shoot a person to defend my property. They’d have to be a clear threat to my safety. There was a case in my town last year of a guy who shot at his car as it was being driven away by a car thief. He killed that car thief even though he was driving away and not a physical threat. He was acquitted of all charges. But again, this is something I do not agree with. The BG will drive off with my car in that case. If I’m shooting, it’s to defend safety and life, not property. I’ll do it suppressed to protect my hearing and that of my family should they be home.

        • To those asking how a silencer could get one in additional trouble after shooting an intruder: Her in CA there have been several court cases, leading to bans, claiming that hollow points indicate a “laying in wait” mentality with the additional intent to maim the intruder. No argument of the intent to prevent over-penetration has stood up in several cases.

          A jury of non-shooters with an overly zealous DA could easily be lead to the idea that the defendant wanted to be able to “get away” with killing by covering up the shooting with a silenced firearm. Not a stretch in CA.

          San Francisco currently has a ban on the use of hollow points in civilian self defense. And, last I checked, civilians cannot own silencers in CA.

      • @Jeremy S In my book that car (or flat screen or stash of cash) was bought with a significant portion of my life. I would have also acquitted. The criminal gave up the “right” to a “balanced response” when he decided a life-of-crime was his vocation of choice.

        • You are entitled to your opinion, of course.

          But imagine a Liberal judge, in a Liberal city, and a jury of your very “diverse” peers (especially if the BG is “diverse.” Now imagine a “diverse” DA who is serious about making his bones.

          You might get keelhauled. It wouldn’t be fair or right, but it would be done.

          I have a 12 GA loaded with two rounds of short #6 bird shot. Not very lethal, but loud and stings a lot. And I would only shoot to protect life, not property. My expectation is to make them change their minds and leave, and I won’t chase them or shoot after them. A defensive gun use is only the FIRST event in a long chain of events, and I want to survive all of them.

          Having said that, the next four rounds are magnum #00. If my plan to discourage them fails, then we are at war and I plan to win. Whether or not you win the court case requires you to be alive to attend it.

      • One thing I wish when people talk about guns for home defense is that the 12ga shotgun is that if you’re using buckshot it’s not going to go through walls and possibly injury other people.with most handguns if you’re using it for home defense it can go through most wall’s and injury other people.and with the ar15 or the ak47 or more rifles they should only be used in home defense if that’s all you have because the bullet can and do injury people so thank that people should have a good shotgun or a good handgun with training for home defense.

    • Unless you are talking post WROL a shotgun is the best tool for the job in my viewpoint. Even more important than the hardware is using it enough to be good with it. Watch how the three gun guys run a shotgun or actually even better check out how the Cowboy Action Shooters run an old Winchester ’97. Granted, neither group is running full house 00 buck, or even #4, but they have the gun handling down and train on reactive targets that need to get shot again if they fail to go down.

    • Why not just a sig 220, 45, loaded with self defense rounds?? Easy to retain close to your side if need be, using the opposite hand for close quarters combat. Hi-intensity flash light would also be nice for clearing a home…hmmm, night blindness. True, a blast from any weapon in a confined space is going to ding up a persons hearing for a bit, but that’s the price maybe for protecting home and loved ones. Big Mr Dog is another choice.

  2. Since I live in NY, I’m kinda stuck with a shotty. Damnit. One of these with a silencer and a light would be at the top of my Xmas list.

    • … I don’t think my shotgun would be legal in NY.. Although I half expect them to ban anything that isn’t a flintlock musket soon.

    • They might look silly with a silencer on them, but if I lived in NY I’d get a lever gun. The 16″ barrels hold 8+1, 20″ models hold 10+1 of .357 or .44 and the muzzle energies are close to double that of a handgun.

    • a 16 inch rossi 92 can hold 9-10 38 specials. The 20 inch can only :wink wink: hold 10 357 magnums. 38 special can zip at magnum speeds out of a lever action barrel (158 grains 1400+fps). It’s a great HD rifle if you don’t have a handgun permit and don’t want the blast of a shotty. The recoil is similar to a 22lr.

      • Not to mention, the 16″ barrel model is almost three inches shorter than the SIG MPX with SIG arm brace mentioned in this article (according to the specs on SIG’s website, anyway). All-around great house gun.

        • illegal in NJ cant have guard over barrel. but the kel tec plr 16 with single point is one of the best options.

          pistol uses ar15 mags…. not concealable, but is great for home defense.

          next 2 pistols are EAA witness .45/22lr combo and the kel tec plr 16.

          • Yea, I lived in Lumberton NJ for 13 years after retirement from the Army. I hated the gun laws. But My wife and I had a deal. She would follow me all over the world and when I retired we would head to South Jersey. I grew up in Illinois and always considered myself as a Midwest transplant. The wife died in 07 so I moved back to Illinois. I wouldn’t make NJ a permanent resident again. Chris Christie bows to the liberals too much. The anti gunners love it.

      • Those .38 specials out of a 16″ barrel are probably about as close to ear safe as you could get without a silencer too.

    • I agree.

      RF, in the article, the thing you forgot to take into consideration is that a lot of people are not comfortable buying or owning tactical or tacticool looking weapons.

      Even if an 870 may not be the best choice, I know people would would buy an 870 but never, ever buy a magazine fed sporting rifle.

      Also, you can buy an 870 for what, 200-300 bucks at a pawn shop? The cheapest AR or equivalent sporting rifle will cost you at least 600 bucks. Then factoring in the magazines etc, that is quite a price difference.

      • Limiting ones options or abilities limits one’s chance of success. In a life or death situation, one who chooses to limit themselves chooses to put themselves at risk. It is their choice to make, but for those who choose life over further risk of death or other tragic outcomes, the author makes valid arguments that this weapon provides a greater chance of success in a situation we all hope to avoid.

    • Shotgun is dead??
      Really? On a gun forum such as this, I can’t really believe this is being touted as a logical evolution. Most of the readers of this website would be well suited with small semi auto firearms, but having engaged and tried to instruct enough family members, a pump shotgun, in 20 gauge would be perfect. I applaud people who buy a shotgun with no gun knowledge simply because they are actually doing something…..
      I believe they should want to know more and want to be better at home defense, but the reality is some people just aren’t into guns like most of us are.
      My grandmother can pick up a 20 gauge and at least get off a shot in the vicinity of the bad guy. Better than not being able to work the latest and greatest tactical iron.

      People should defend with what they are comfortable with. I just don’t see how you convince someone who just ‘threw a shotgun under the bed’ would ever even consider a mini AR.

      • For home defense, Has anyone thought about the K-9 ? Imo the K-9 is about the best. Its user friendly, doubles as security system, wemon, and little girls can even use them. Has no safteys, magazines, needs no speedloaders or other add ons. It comes equiped with dedicated night vision and you dont even have to fill out a 4433 to buy one, Now we can get into arguments about what K-9 to purchase, I suggest any over 70 lb,s will do. One thing I like about the K-9 is I dont have to worry about overpenatration, and ammo cost. One negative thing is the feeding issues, the K-9. does have some problems there, but the never ftf or stovepipe. Another plus with the K-9 as a home defence weapon is the money I save on gun oil. Ive had my K-9 for almost 15 years and have never aplied a drop of gun oil on it and it still functions. For the price of an AR I can buy two K-9s. Ammo bans do not affect the K-9 and to keep it running you can literally use leftovers from the kitchen, although that does somtimes cause feeding problems, the K-9 just begs to be fed.My K-9 sleeps with me, is always ready to go,I dont even have to aim it. Fact is even a blind man can use a K-9, Some of the best K-9s are german made, others made in america are just as good. Just this morning I used my K-9 to dispatch an intruding opossum. You can talk about JBM’s 1911 being around for a hundred years but the K-9 has been around even longer then that. K-9s also have the distinction of haviing served in every major conflict known to man.I keep my K-9 on the couch, on the floor, in the vehicle, and at my bedside and have never had it rust, even when put away wet. Yup for me the K-9 is the best home defense

        • K-9?? I was reading this and wondering what the hell is a K-9? I’m familiar with a Swedish K. That’s a 9mm that would make a great HD arm. Or a HI (home invasion) arm. And I’ve used them suppressed. But unsuppressed, they are also pretty damned loud inside the house. Then it hit me and I realized I have 3 “K-9s”. And you are right, they are pretty darned good HD items. They are so good I could and have used them in my sleep. In fact I have. But they also can be pretty loud inside the house. Loud enough to wake you up. Loud enough to drive away most invaders before they even get inside the house. Pretty clever Mr. Tast. I enjoyed your comments.

    • Speaking of funny sh*t, there’s this little excerpt: “For a lot of people (read: women and smaller folk), the shotgun is an intimidating firearm to wield.”

      Seriously, some of you should visit a trap range sometime. At the one I frequent, there are women and girls as young as 14 shooting 12 gauge, and a young girl who’s all of 70 pounds shooting a 20 gauge. Fifty or more rounds in an evening. There’s an average-sized 16-yr-old girl who sometimes busts more birds than her dad.

        • No. Shooting #8 target loads at the trap range. Which, admittedly, won’t kick as hard as a typical self-defense load. But any woman/girl who can go through a couple boxes of target loads without complaint can sure enough put three slugs in a perp.

        • The existence of a small number of probably awesome women shooting 12ga doesn’t mean the majority of women aren’t like my wife, who claimed that one shot from a semi auto 20ga almost broke her shoulder and refused to ever try it again. We have a 300blk AR pistol in a locking rack now, tucked away in the bedroom closet.

          I know she could handle a shotgun with time, effort, and training, but due to the intimidation factor, it will never happen. The original point is a good and completely valid one, while not at all saying women are incapable.

      • @Curtis in IL, just to be clear, I’m on your side bud. The shotgun is a fine weapon and a fine HD piece. Anyone that tells you otherwise is still wet behind the ears as a “gun writer”.

        • Or maybe just really good at writing dramatic headlines and provocatively worded copy. This article has a solid point behind its provocative presentation and has generated 87 comments (oops, 93 now) in less than 3 hours. I wouldn’t call that “wet-behind-the-ears” gun writing.

          • @Ing, I didn’t call it “wet-behind-the-ears” writing…I said: wet behind the ears gun writer. There is a difference.

            But otherwise, you are right. It accomplished exactly what RF set out to do, write some controversial garbage to garner hits. Bingo.

        • Yep, write an inflammatory statement, spend a paragraph backing away from that statement cause you know it’s BS. Typical TTAG.

        • The shotgun has been obsolete since the first magazine-fed metallic-cartridge rifled firearm was put into production back in the 1870s.

          The shotgun offers crappy to non-existent sights, excessive recoil, excessive muzzle blast, poor accuracy, a cumbersome unwieldy layout….

          But you’re probably going to tell us how the sound of the action being racked will cause burglars to burst into flames…..

      • Yea, I found that patronizing and when I looked down in the shower this AM, I noticed “Yup, still got an wiener,’ so I guess I’m still a guy,” so it musta been over-the-top for me to notice.

        On a trap range, there’s a lot more female competitors as a percentage of the shooters than in any other shooting sport I’ve seen. There’s no shortage of women on 5-stand or sporting clays, either. So obviously that “a shotgun intimidates women” thing seems to be not working.

        The other absurd thing was people taking the above-depicted widget to a range more frequently than a shotgun. That’s a hoot. Look at the Grand American trap competition and tell me that there are fewer people taking shotguns to ranges than rifles – of all types.

      • I love a shotgun, I doubt I’ll ever change. However, add me to the list of fellas with wives who DON’T love shotguns. I went so far as to fit a 20 gauge with a recoil reducing stock, and still couldn’t get her to practice with it. I want her to have something with the stopping power of SOME sort of long gun, so I’m keeping an open mind on a concept like this.

        • Have you tried a pistol-caliber lever gun (.357 or .44 mag) for your wife? I haven’t met anyone yet who’s tried it and doesn’t love shooting cowboy guns. The manual-of-arms is almost “revolver” simple, and decades of exposure to cowboy movies means almost everyone already has 80% of the basics already figured out before they even pick up the gun.

          Way less intimidating to casual shooters than an uber-tactical black rifle. Put .38 or .44 Specials in it, and it’s got no recoil to speak of, so practice is cheap and fun.

      • That’s true, and the other points about a perp grabbing the muzzle aren’t going to be in play if the rest of the family is huddled up somewhere in the house during a home invasion.

      • I’ll keep my KelTec KSG shotgun. A short cycle pump action. Mini shells or low recoil shells. I’ll keep it.

        • I agree with you completely. I have owned my KSG for about 2 years. Enjoy it very much. I switched from 00 buck to low recoil slug mini shells, very nice. I also own a Keltec SU16C for home defense If I desire. Currently waiting for a Keltec RFB Carbine. But the KSG is my go to home defense.

  4. An MPX in .357 SIG would probably be the ultimate home defense weapon.

    If money were no object.

    However, the other reason shotguns are so popular is because they are cheap. From a budget of $200 to $400 you have a wide variety of options, some of them very bad, but most would be sufficient even without much training.

    I don’t really believe in one size fits all solutions though. One of the reasons my HD weapon is a .45 ACP handgun is because of aforementioned tight spaces. If my home had a more open floorplan then a 12 gauge or AR-15 might be a better choice. As it is, my house is just asking for someone to grab the barrel of a longarm as I come around the corner, or to end up in a position where I can’t bring the weapon to bear because it is hung-up or I’m coming around a corner, etc.

    If I were going to transition to a longarm, I can’t see myself spending the money for the MPX as a first choice, and I make a decent salary. I think sometimes gun guys forget that this is a damn expensive hobby and while many people say you can’t put a price tag on your life, the fact is we do it all the time. In the choices of the neighborhoods we live in, the cars we drive, how many fire extinguisher we have, etc. It’s called risk mitigation. Very few people have the means to procure the best option possible and even those that do often don’t.

    • With the correct training, just about anything that goes boom will do in a pinch.

      One thing I agree with RF on in the article is that your average, shogun owning person who keeps a gun for home defense is probably not the most highly trained individual.

      My advice to people like that is that whatever weapon platform they choose is far less important than getting trigger time with it, and having a real, tangible plan for a home defense scenario.

    • Well said. I’d only add that: A great way to see what you’re up against is to check out crime statistics in your exact neighborhood. In urban areas such as mine, home intrusions are common. They traditionally work alone and are not wearing any type of body armor. Any Sig handgun chambered in .45 is ample and Trijicon HD’s are a plus.

  5. Great write up. Shotguns are significantly overrated. Useful, but overrated.

    On a separate but related note, odds on how many comments before somebody comments about birdshot being the best home defense round?

      • That’s a whole different load. It’s basically only bird in composition, but mostly functions as a slug.

    • At home defense distance, it’s really not going to matter much. You’ll get one good sized hole with #8 target loads or a 1 oz. slug.

      • For those concerned with recoil they make low recoil buckshot which I have noticed many have already mentioned. It really cuts the recoil down to close to a field load in my opinion and has plenty of energy at home defense distances. I keep my Benelli loaded with 3″ 15 pellet load of 00 buck as I want to stop the problem instantly and the recoil doesn’t bother me as I shoot a shotgun weekly.

        I will say that I have been considering a shorter length weapon as my house has some tight corners. I just got a brace for my Pap 92 and am thinking of switching over to that. I much prefer a shotgun due to the damage it does but the tradeoff is the how long they are.

    • On the whole, the perceived necessities of the home defense weapon is what is overrated.

      The shotgun itself is rated just as it should be.

    • You are correct regarding the use of birdshot for HD applications, unless you have a house with the possibility of 25 yard shots. The shot pattern isn’t going to open up enough to make much difference at impact. You also don’t have to worry about over penetration and possibly injury to someone outside your home.
      Most people employing an AR are using military grade 5.56 surplus ammo with a steel core; these will definitely over penetrate as will .357 and .44 magnums in certain types of buildings. You injure or kill an innocent bystander on the street and you are definitely looking at serious jail time.
      And while many people practice with their weapon of choice, most don’t. Even most of those who practice don’t know how they will react when faced with an armed intruder. And just because you can hit all the steel targets on a given range in a good time lapse, don’t plan on that saving your life if you don’t do some training in a chaotic environment that gets your adrenaline pumping. Also be aware that in most cases you will be facing multiple assailants.
      There is one hell of a pucker factor when there is gunfire coming your way. I remember the first tactical simulation I had to run through, even with the knowledge that the fire we were facing was only blanks; we all would have died if the instructors had been using real ammo and had been actually aiming at us. Targets are difficult to find and hit when your heart rate jumps to about 120 BPM due to adrenaline.
      If you don’t have military training, save some money and get some training at Gunsite or some other establishment that provides training under duress. Even if you have prior military training it’s still a good idea to get refresher training on a periodic basis to maintain your edge.
      As far as noise and over pressure are concerned, get a good set of noise cancelling headsets. If you want to use a suppressed AR get a 300 Blackout and use subsonic rounds. But I still recommend using the headsets because your assailant will in all likelihood not be using a suppressed weapon.

      • Birdshot is not a good choice for home defense and is made for shooting small animals like rabbits or birds. As much as you think it is fine as it hasn’t spread far at close range the fact remains that it does not penetrate deeply enough to be a reliable choice to stop a home invader. How many police departments use birdshot?

        • I’m retired LEO. I carried a rem 870 in my car for the better part of 2 decades and MOSS 590 after that. We had 10rds of 00, 5 slugs and a box of No6 birdshot. The 00 was always loaded and the others available if needed and if time allowed us to switch. Having been to several shots fired calls, I can tell you first hand that bird shot is an extremely effective round, even at distances of 100 or more feet. 1 oz of 8s = +/- 400 pellets and while seldom lethal @30yds it will damned sure will “stop” most humans from doing whatever they are doing and leave if they still can. At a close range of inches you’ll find the wad 2 to 5 inches inside the perpetrator! And if the barrel was in contact with the subject at the time of rd detonation, the damage is unbelievable. I will never tell you what to use, but will tell you to NEVER under estimate ANY SG round inside any house matter how big your house is.

      • I think more than worrying about over penetrating and killing someone on the street, you are more likely to kill someone in your own home like wife or children due to over penetration, thats why i think 5.56, 7.62 x 39, 44mag, 357mag in 158gr, etc are just awful choices for home defense. Those rounds wont even notice sheetrock. Doesnt do you a whole lot of good neutralizing the threat if you become one yourself due to over penetration.

        • If you think drywall is going to stop birdshot at across-the-living-room distances, you are deluded.

  6. In non nfa dreamland, I’ve though something like a Calico (helical magazine), but in 25ACP or 32, full auto, silenced, ,with a 300 round magazine would make a great home defense weapon. Make it a bullpup, wrap the magazine around the weapon.

    So not happening.

  7. If comparing the price of the MPX to a mid range AR-15, then what do you compare a dirt simple Mossberg 500 to? It has a price range sitting right around “Saturday Night Special”. Get one in the Persuader model, and you have an 18″ barrel and a matching length magazine. Strap a wide beam flashlight to it, and light up the whole room!. And nothing beats the sound of a shotgun being pumped for intimidation, especially if you follow this up with gleeful, psychotic laughter. Ham it up, go full Disney villain with it. The psychological effects of laughing at your assailants while preparing a ballistic eviscerator is unbeatable. Inspires confidence on your part, and nobody who grew up watching daytime television sticks around in a dark house with what can only be a heavily armed crazy person (this is supposed to be you).

    And don’t give me that line about giving away your position. Most homes are laid out on a standard floor pattern, so anybody from your neighborhood trying to rob you already knows where the kitchen, living room, and master bedroom are located, and can guess which one of those you’ll be in just based on the time of day.

    • What?! You sleep on top of your bed in your bedroom at 3 am? Don’t give your position away, bro.

      /sarc

    • You had me until “pumped for intimidation, especially if you follow this up with gleeful, psychotic laughter.” One: thats creepy. Two: why was your primary home defense shotgun not loaded with one in the tube?

      • One: that is the friggin point. I’m trying to out creep the creeps. It’s the Batman strategy, using sheer intimidation through theatricality and hyperbole to psychologically defeat the enemy. 2: It’s called condition 3. Mag’s loaded, safety’s off, Shelly just needs a good pump start and of we go!

    • Interesting. I hadn’t considered that. Does kind of creep me out. I know I’d turn tale and run, were I a home invader.

      And I’m with you on condition 3 for long guns. Little kids and what not. Never had a problem racking one in. Handguns in a little hand safe, condition zero.

      But I’d say I bought my house based on my neighbors not needing to rob me. That’s for the apartment dwellers.

      • Houses and apartments have cookie cutter set ups. Some neighborhoods more than others. I live in a nice neighborhood, but all the houses are set up roughly the same. Nearby, is a less reputable neighborhood. All any of them would need to do is talk to a housing developer, ask to see a set of floorplans, and plan accordingly. This of course assumes that the criminals go through a thorough planning stage for a home invasion. If that were the case, and murder was also on their menu, I would be even further justified in turning them into confetti using my Mossberg’s “blend” setting.

    • This is a ridiculous post. Please, if you are reading these comments in order to learn how to defend your family’s lives, disregard this information.

      Keep your shotgun loaded to increase your chances of winning the fight.

    • If sound is the only plan you have, maybe you should record an .mp3 of these “intimidating sounds” and just play it really loud instead of grabbing a gun.

    • Well, I guess I’m the outlier. I live way out in the middle of the woods, so no neighbors to worry about. My wife and I tend to be pretty introverted, so we only have family and a few good friends over every few months. Our home was built quite a long time ago (with multiple additions throughout the ages), so it doesn’t follow a standard floor plan. Anyone who enters the house isn’t going to be familiar with the layout, and I absolutely would be giving away my position if I racked the slide. Regardless, why lose precious seconds hoping for an intimidation factor? There’s a good chance the intruder may be hopped up on something, and now they know exactly where you are. If their reaction time is faster and they’re armed, I’ve just lost my life and so has my wife.

      So, yeah…I won’t be racking the slide. The first sound any intruder is going to hear (or not) will be the boom of a shotgun, AK, or .45.

      Your mileage may vary.

  8. I guess my 870 pump with breacher barrel and 930 SPX didn’t get the message. Until I get project Honey Badger going, the shotgun is the best I’ve got for home defense. To make matters worse, I’ve got to use the handgun to fight to the shotgun.

    Ah well. I’ve done lots of room and building clearing with ARs, shotguns, and pistols.

    As to noise, everything without a suppressor is loud. The snubbie .357 is probably the loudest HD gun, followed by a 5.56 from a short tube with a muzzle break.

    • My thoughts exactly.

      Project HB is several years and thousands of dollars from being completed, so until then, 870 it is.

      I can’t imagine a short barreled AR is going to be much quieter than an 18″ 12 gauge in a narrow hallway, especially when I rip 10 of those in a row, compared to 3 or 4 rounds from the shotgun.

  10. “The home defense shotgun is dead.”

    Considering the price of the average AR rifle/pistol to the average shotgun, not including ammo or accessories… I’m going to say that statement is full-on talking out your a$$.

    It’s like saying cheap beer is dead because now we have craft beer. There will always be people looking for a cheap buzz, just like there will always be people looking for a cheap home defense weapon…

    Nah, shotguns aren’t going anywhere, my friends.

      • For 200 bucks, new, I got two shotguns in one. One is a 28 inch barreled vented rib hunting gun and with a 30 second barrel swap the other is an 18 inch HD weapon.

        And you talk of stress and lack of training and then advise an expensive gun that has to be strapped on like a girdle when the shtf.

        How many folks have you seen short stroke a shotgun? 8?. Every time you’ve been to the range you’ve seen people with jammed autoloaders. The person that buys a shotgun and sticks it under the bed isn’t the person that will do tap and rack drills or the other dance routines needed with an autoloader.

        The only time I’ve experienced an intruder in my house he/they left after me chambering a round in my pump gun. How intimidating is the sig whatsit slide being worked?

        For versatility and effectiveness the shotgun has yet to be dethroned.

      • According to who? Every dealer I have talked to has their price listed about $1800. This is the first I have ever heard of under 1K, and knowing Sig that sounds like a completely unbelievable fantasy. An MPX for about the same price as a 226? Yeah right.

        • I have no idea where Robert got his pricing information from but he’s WAY off the mark. As a dealer I’ve gotten pricing on the MPX from multiple sources, and there is no chance that anyone is going to put an MPX up for sale for short of $1400-1500. Not without losing money on a hot ticket item they could be selling for almost MSRP, anyway.

    • $400 for a Mossberg 500
      $800 for a Sig MPX

      Point still stands. Thats why the shotgun is not going anywhere.

      • I’ve seen used 500s for around $250, and they’re not hard to come by, so there’s that as well.

        Some people can’t, or won’t, drop the money on all the more fancy weapons.

        The shotgun isn’t going anywhere.

    • Yea, there is that.

      In the meantime, little old ladies who have no idea that they’re failing the “operator” qualification badly are plugging away at intruders with .38 Specials and wheelguns, and appear to be acquitting themselves quite well.

      I mean, WTF? They don’t even operate operationally! How the heck can they be plugging intruders with some old POS S&W made of wood and blued steel, with no black plastic cheez-whiz on them anywhere?

      • “They don’t even operate operationally!”

        I still don’t understand why you don’t write for this site. That was gold. Especially when talking about Lil Ole Ladies. Dynamic Pie Concepts has to do a video on Tactical Grandma’s now.

    • I just bought a sig brace and built an AR15 from a parts kit with a 10.5 inch barrel.
      Most parts came from Palmetto. The whole kit and Kaboodle was around $680.00 including shipping.
      It was my first build and it was done with the help of a YouTube video or three.
      Tools required are remarkably few and inexpensive. Roll pin punch set, masking tape and a little plastic tipped hammer if memory serves.
      It was really pretty dumbass simple. I put most of it together in the time it took wifey to run to the store and buy groceries.
      I sure hope it doesn’t blow up the first time I shoot it!

  14. The difference in SPL between a .223 w/ a short barrel and a shotgun w/ a short barrel is negligible. They’re both in the 152 to 156 dB range.

    Both of them are better than a handgun in .357 Mag, or a .40 S&W, .44 Rem Mag, etc, which can be up to 10 dB louder. A typical 9mm pistol is a few dB louder than most long guns. Any muzzle comp/brake will make the shooter’s situation worse, and most AR’s have comps/brakes on them. Brakes or ports on any high pressure gun are, IMO, the ultimate in hearing damage, especially in tight quarters. I will never have another brake/comp on any gun I own.

    BTW, 140 dB is considered the max level of exposure without permanent level shift damage, so any gunshot in the 153+ dB range (most shotguns start in here) is damaging. The .357 is up in the 163 dB range, absolutely horrific on your hearing without protection and even with protection (eg, muffs, with 29 dB reduction) you’re being exposed to noise in the 135 dB range when shooting a .357, which is plenty damaging with sustained exposure.

    If you want to save your hearing and shoot, you’ll arrive where I have: Back at cartridges used 100 years ago: .38 Special, .45 Colt, .45 ACP, .44 Special. They’re not quiet, but they are among the lowest sound pressure levels of any non-black powder cartridges out there. These old classics have the lowest chamber pressures in current use – down in the 18K to 27K PSI range.

    The 9×19 is around 34 to 36K PSI, the .40 S&W is up at 35K PSI, the .357, .41, .44 Mags are up in the 36K+ PSI range. Want to save your hearing a bit more? Use a longer barrel on a shotgun. The expansion factor in a shotgun barrel can take quite a lot of the noise if you use lighter loads and a longer barrel.

    Higher pressure equals higher sound pressure levels. There’s no way around it.

    • Good info. Another important factor is the noise from blow back gases coming out the AR’s ejection port, which is in very close proximity to your ear.

    • Thank you, sir. That’s pretty much what I said regarding noise, only better. Man, I wish I could get a suppressor in CA without going to jail.

    • What people don’t realize is that based on firepower per sound shotgun is the quietest option. As that one shell if placed well equals 5 rounds of other conventional weapons in terms of devastating power.

      When it comes to versatility, price per performance and reliability nothing beats a good ol pump action. And even though some people frown upon the idea that the pure sound of a pump action racking is a fearsome event. If you look at national statistics you will realize that overwhelmingly more often than not firearms defend without a need to fire a shot.

      If a perp gets scared by my racking of the slide, good, I don’t have to redo the dry wall that will unduadebly be a mixture of buckshot holes and blood, should he decide not to heed the warning. And if I don’t feel like warning a perp, the shot follows milliseconds after the slide if I so choose.

  15. I shot the MPX yesterday as well and came away impressed for the same reasons mentioned above. The Sig Sauer rep said these were shipping “last week,” but I’ve not seen one for sale after briefly searching online.

    So when/where can I buy one?

    Are there any particular risks to the design that make an early purchase unwise?

  16. The sound of me racking my Chinese pardner pump will scare the hell outa most lowlifes. $200…except I keep it ready to go with safety on 🙂

  17. I’ll end up getting one for my Octane 9, but ditch the cheesy, cheapskate, wannabe SBR Sig Brace, and do it the right way.

  18. You’re wandering off the reservation Robert.

    For home defense, the shotgun is damn near ideal.

    You cite a couple of its shortcomings while cheerfully more or less ignoring the weaknesses of this new wundergun – the latest “johnny come lately” to the home defense repertoire.

    There’s a reason a pump-action shotgun has been at the top of the list for home defense for 150 years.

    They work. And nobody walks away from a load of 00-buck to the chest or a slug.

    In fact, bad guys don’t even make it to the hospital after taking one from a good guy.

    Even 14-year-old girls who weigh a 105 pounds soaking wet can run a 12-gauge with a little training. See photo of Hope below from the women’s invitational 3-gun match.

    http://www.gunssavelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/10435681_536837586451584_9081315671127693591_n.jpg

    If a teen girl Hope can do it, the average woman can do it.

    Put a youth stock on your home defense shotgun and put that extra money into training ammo, training classes and some handgun training classes.

    John

    • But if the shotgun is so cheap and superior, why are most self-defense shooting we hear of done with handguns or carbines?
      That’s not a provocative questions: I would really like to see some serious statistics about that, but I personally suspect that the pervasiveness of the home-defense shotgun is mostly a romantic myth.

      • I suspect that handguns are used in the vast majority of DGU’s simply because they’re easy to carry and have to hand at all times. I have an airweight j frame in my pocket as I type this. Likely most DGU’s end just because the intended victim has a gun and shots are not even needed.

        But, if I knew for certain that when I finished typing this 2 crackheads were going to kick my door in I would make damn sure I had my shotgun in hand.

        I wish we had mood music in life like in the movies. I could listen and know to grab the buckshot dispenser.

  19. I’ll stick with a Rem 870 and Glock 20 as my home defense options. If I want 30 rounds of 9mm I can get that with any Glock 9mm, most of which accept a light/laser combo.
    This seems like a nice gun, and I’d gladly take one if someone offered it to me, but its advantages come with significant tradeoffs. Compared to a Glock 17 with 33 round mag, it doesn’t seem like a huge upgrade.

  20. “We hear that the MPX will cost about the same as a lower-priced AR-15.”

    Their website has it currently set at around $1700. That’s Piston AR tier pricing!

  21. It’s time we push for reform to NFA laws. At the very least, we should be able to have SBR’s and SBS’s removed from the list or at least have the minimum barrel length and OAL’s reduced to something more useable.

  22. You left out the biggest downside to the home shotty — if you use it, you’re going to be cleaning up pieces of bad guy for a month and you ain’t never going to get those stains out of your carpet.

    • It’s even bad with hardwood floors. Did you know those will stain if you leave a liquid on them long enough? Although, if enough bad guys break in, it might be a cheap and easy way to get some faux redwood floors…

  23. I wonder what “lower-priced AR15” means. SIG advertises $1,700+ as the MSRP on this carbine, er, pistol.

  24. I fail to see how this is a better option then the Beretta Cx4 carbine or some other pistol caliber carbine which retails for $600 or less.

    Or even a pistol with a thirty round magazine, like a Glock 17/19 or a Beretta 92.

    • Bud’s has the thirty round MPX magazines listed for -$60. That’s twice the cost of a thirty round Beretta magazine.

    • Just what I was thinking. I have had a CX-4 for a decade. Never once failed to go bang. Surplus m-9 mags were $5 a few years ago at a local gun store. I bought a shoe box worth. Weirdly, they all worked fine. Then I have a dozen or so Mecgar 20 round mags. I am good.

    • That’s another thing. Personally I love pistol-caliber carbines, but the amount of hype of this site’s writers for the MPX is really astonishing. There are many other options about in the same ballpark that are readily available, but not in widespread use. If the MPX stays priced north of 1000$, as it seems more than likely, it will be another niche weapon as the CX-4, the JR carbine and others.

  25. The MSRP I see for an MPX pistol with a brace is ~ $1,700. That’s the same as a lower-cost AR? That’s an awfully wealthy lense you’re looking through. The HD shotgun will never die unless home defense with a firearm becomes something only the wealthy can afford.

    Hell, I could still get an AR for at least a grand less than that.

  26. I’ve been reading TTAG almost since the very beginning. Most of the articles are excellent. This isn’t one of them. Dollar for dollar nothing beats a pump shotgun. Nothing. I have an utterly reliable Stevens 320 that cost me $180 or thereabouts. I train with and defend our home with Hornady TAP low velocity buckshot. It is pleasurable to shoot. Yes 12 gauge buck that is pleasurable to shoot. I can purchase 50 rounds for $30-$40 (nope not the cheapest). So for around $200 I’ve got a 12 gauge and 50 rounds. This poor country boy will take my chances with what I’ve got.

  27. Save your money train more with the shotgun all aforementioned problems solved. My wife 5’1 can handle a 12 Gauge no problem because she has shot enough to be comfortable with it. And these days there are 12 year old girls shooting them in 3 gun faster than I am sure a lot of us can. A pistol caliber is a pistol is a pistol it is piss poor at stopping (Killing people) when seconds count.

  28. I thought racking a double barrel shotgun and firing a warning shot was how we were supposed to defend our homes.

    • Yeah – what HE said – remember, Uncle Joey said all we needed to do was point the shotty out the door and fire off a couple rounds! He didn’t say bupkis about some fancy-shmancy scary-black-rifle variant, dammit!

      “Get a shotgun!”

      “Get a shotgun!”

      “Get a shotgun!”

      Hell, he even said it THREE times – what more do you NEED?

  30. some real blatant assumptions and generalizations made in this article in order to make the supposed point.
    2 hands for shotguns a good point.
    decibel level of BOTH will damage hearing so thats a moot point
    more rounds in a magazine good point
    can supress a AR good point
    sig brace, give a me fucking break
    its gonna be just as hard to find that hole to slip your arm in the dark, under duress just like it would be to do anything else
    shotguns are popular because they are simple, alot of inexperienced people are intimidated by the AR platform, rather or not that is valid to us, makes no difference
    “if the perp grabs the 18″ barrel blah blah” what a retarded point. he grabs the barrel, you pull the trigger.

  31. You can pick up a Mossberg 500 with a field and a security barrel for $299. Depending on what “priced similarly to a cheap AR” means, that MPX might wind up in a whole different price bracket.

    I consider my AR on the cheap side and it was $900 w/ case, sights, and 8 mags. Of course you can get a Bushmaster Carbon-15 for like $400 these days so mine is kind of spendy by that measure.

    What’s the actual price?

  32. Meh. Yes AR15’s are more efficient and definitely better from a manipulation point of view. Shotguns are still great. Also not sure why you think they are that much louder, pressures are generally fairly low.

  33. I dont think the author is really saying the shotgun for home defense is really “dead”. Hes just making a point that it might not be ideal for some people such as women, people who may be on the weaker side, ect. I know my wife HATES HATES firing my shotguns at the range……in fact she refuses. Now think about me telling her if someone breks in and god forbid im not around I ask her to go strait for the shotgun because it is the most lethal gun at close range……but shes not proficiant or experiances in shooting it. It could be a recipt for something to go wrong on her end or freeze up because of the expected recoil. For most of us on this forum the shotgun will ALWAYS be our first line of defense in a home break in situation, but there are many more out there that its not……and thats what hes getting at. Case in point…….go to ANY gun range and count how many people are in private bays shooting shotguns……very rare…..why….cause they are painful to shoot for 90% of everyone out there. So why not go with something your experianced and comfortable with and dont cringe shooting. Me personally I tell my wife to get her XDM, flip the $300 laser on the target and fire away. At least shes done that many times and feels confident doing so. Jesus people…….dont get so offended that they are saying the shotgun might not be practical for some!!!

  34. Just skimming through the comments, because I’m short on time today, it looks like others have hit the high points. Stick with your shotgun. This thing is a ridiculous range toy masquerading as a serious home defense option. Well, first it’s masquerading as an SBR.

    This thing is as much an embarrassment as those stupid twin coil, hundred round pistol magazines which, frankly, always look like you’re sodomizing your Glock. Super lame.

  35. Now for ME………I willl ALWAYS 100% OF THE TIME GO FOR MY MOSSBERG 590 as options 1, 2 and 3 in any situation in and around my home.

  36. A very critical point is missing here. Use something that even remotely looks like an “assault rifle” in a dgu and you may be in for one hell of a fight in court. Never underestimate the stupidity of the average courthouse jury either. I know there are plenty of cases in which a home defender breezes through the post-shoot legal process, but even the most pro-gun states are not immune from a fascist prosecutor looking to score conviction points. Magnify all this by a factor of ten if you live in one of the anti-liberty states. My upbringing in a largely anti-gun area has led me to err on the side of extreme caution regarding home defense, which is why I chose a Remington 870. To each his own, but that’s just my take on my circumstance.

    TheBear made a very salient point above. People who buy a gun for home defense, throw it in the closet “just incase,” and never actually train are not wise. This fault is common because too many people think training = spending time and money you don’t always have at the range. Not so; I don’t shoot my 870 often, but I have a strict habit of practicing loading, unloading, shouldering, and firing with snap caps. I have not taken a home defense class yet and know I could use improvement, but I do not get nervous while handling my 870 anymore. This should be the endgame of everyone’s relationship with their home defense choice, being so comfortable with the handling and function of the weapon that it feels like a natural extension of him or herself.

    • My 870 20 ga doubled as my skeet gun. I had an incident one night where the alarm went off. My wife grabbed the kids and I grabbed the. 870. Finger off trigger, pump, low shoulder ready, covered entrances and cleared the house fairly easily. Funny how skeet shooting that gun translated extremely well to home defense. PS – turns out the back door wasn’t quite shut right, caused the alarm. Great run-through.

  37. And the MPX is not the same price as a “low end AR”. Low end AR’s are 600-800. The MPX ive seen are in the upper 1000’s. Now that i can agree on as not being a practical replacement for most. So I do agree with those on here who think using that particular weapon as an example is stretching most peoples wallets just a bit!!!

  39. SIG SAUER MPX

    Not an option in NY and several other states. Next.

    If I had my druthers (i.e., dreaming), it’d be a suppressed short barrel AR in .300 Blackout with 220 gr. hollow point subsonic loads.

  40. My HD weapon is a PS90. 50 rounds of a light recoil round that seems to be a lot more quiet than 5.56 in that 16″ barrel. Some people may balk at 5.7, but if its good eniugh to protect the POTUS, its good enough for me. While I have a Tavor also and they are about the same length, the crack of 5.56 would finish off the rest of my hearing. I really don’t want much more ringing. I have an 870 with 00 buckshot for a secondary weapon. My upstairs weapon is a 5.45 AK. While that may sounds weird it isn’t as loud as my AR or Tavor. It must be the muzzle device.

    • As soon as I have the moola to short-barrel and suppress my PS90, it will be my preferred HD weapon as well. Until then, my handguns will have to do. I have no desire to deafen myself firing a 12 gauge indoors.

  41. Well, I disagree with a couple of things from the article. Saloon owners, stagecoach riders, Good Ol Joe Biden, to every American conflict since the blunderbuss have relied on the premise of a big honkin barrel throwing shot at a given target. Accuracy is relative and an advantage to a novice shooter. A dose of bird shot, skeet, or trap loads don’t have to be “precisely” aimed. Most SD shootings in a home occur at 7 yds or less. Plus having a BG hear the cycling of a pump action as he’s in your house is unmistakable. So the butt pucker factor is well,,,,,,,
    Priceless.
    I’ll keep my 870 Marine Magnum at hand for things that go bump in the night thank you…..with Winchester Low Recoil 00 Buck 9 pellet.

  42. please pay attention: this article is not for you.
    but it did generate some hits regardless. you only have to choose between two weapons this time.
    shotty too long for indoor use? leave the stock folded forwards. pistol grip.
    too heavy for your visiting aunt? 16, 20, .410 should work at least as well as a 9mm.
    got an idiot groping on the business end? make the barrel hotter.
    sudden ringing in your ears affecting your vision (what?)? how do deaf people shoot?
    love my featherlight. it’s fun to practice with: targets flying through the air are consistently hittable. and stationary things like rotting pumpkins and watermelons in kankakee after halloween leave no doubt as to shot and slug effectiveness.
    still, i’d rather have a pistol chambered faux sbr than one in .223. it’s excellent that the px4’s can share mags. the sig is no doubt somewhat more desirable.
    i can’t help but think that that pseudo sbr tokarev in 7.62×25 might be nice for four bills.
    now, a henry mare’s leg in .44mag with a sig brace tapped in sounds groovy.

  43. My big thing is why on earth would i pay upwards of $1,800 for a weapon that shoots the same rounds as my pistol and is NOT FULL AUTO???? It makes no logical sense to pay that kind of money for something that shoots pistol rounds in semi auto. The whole effectiveness of a SMG….which is exactly what the MPX is…….relies on it being used in a full auto fashion. A submachine gun that is semi auto is nothing more than a really expensive pistol.

    • I keep an older p89river 9 mm with2-10 ten roux
      92nd mags ready to go its just me and my wife of course I bought this pistol way before the hi capacity ban here in California but I have those put away so I don’t have to worry about an over active prosecutors coming after me if I shoot an intruder.we live in the country and there has been home invasion out here,so what ever room were in its with us as are Chihuahua the hearing on a dog ever so when she hears somthing her bark alerts are pit bull and German shepherd which gives me time to get my mini -14. Which I have full confidence in my wife to cover me with my pistol

  45. You know what else is incredibly loud? POPPING OFF SOME 5.56 WITHIN THE CONFINED INTERIOR OF A HOME.

    Honestly, this is why I can’t take this blog seriously. The few knowledgeable experts that write here are outweighed by some seriously amateur opinion pieces by self avowed interweb experts and armchair quarterbacks. Let me do you a favor and rewrite this story for you– Until pistol carbines drop to shotgun prices and the US government stops its war against silencers, the shotgun is nowhere near dead as a home defense tool. It’s big, heavy, low capacity, but cheap. And still perfectly viable for its roll in spite of these deficiencies. Oh, and let’s conveniently forget their are other shotgun flavors besides the magic 12.

    When you can pick up a PCC or SBR AR for less than $300, you let me know. I’ll even let you have your sig brace workaround gimmick. About your only option is a 10 round hipoint, and we know how much of a hipoint snob TTAGs is, so I guess that option is out.

    Really. This entry ranks right up there with the completely broken SHTF piece back in September. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/09/daniel-zimmerman/best-shtf-home-defense-weapons/

  46. Ugh, where is the sponsered content sign. Everyone ditch your home defense shot gun and buy this! No thanks. $1000 bucks or more on a defense weapon the police will take as “evidence”, nah, I will keep the $200 shotgun and save the $800 to put towards my legal defense.

  47. MPX looks to be a great gun… But 1500-1700 is not low end for most ppl. My Zastava m92 was 400 shipped + 120 arm race and while it’ll shoot loud fireballs of 7.62×39 HP or SP rounds, I guarantee it’ll be doing more damage per dollar than an expensive MPX… Especially if I use a 75 round drum. I love SIG, but saying shotguns are useless for HD seems like an apple to oranges comparison.

  49. Over 24 million prior service men and women, a significant percentage of them now veterans of a foreign war, have not only trained on the M16, but also on the M4, our issue government SBR.

    NOT a shotgun. If you exercise common sense in your choice of a home defense weapon, you use one that you are familiar with – not one that operates in a completely different way. Even those who weren’t combat arms were required to defend themselves with the M4. Nobody is coming to your rescue when an aggressor attacks. Even medical units who previously had commanders lock up their rifle bolts in a box under his command field desk now attend training exercises in the box at Ft Polk – where truck driver or nurse YOU lock and load to protect yourself.

    That is why the AR pistol is fast becoming the #1 home defense weapon – same controls, short handy length. And if you do use one – well, guess what, IT’S NOT ANY DIFFERENT THAT WHAT THE COPS WILL USE TO BAIL YOU OUT. How is a prosecuting attorney going to prosecute when a judge and jury can’t see any dramatic difference between an NFA legal SBR and a brace equipped AR pistol?

    If a cop does have a rifle – please open your eyes and LOOK AT THE NEWS VIDEOS, it’s either their personal AR15 or a Lend Lease M16 FULL AUTO. And the SERT team isn’t going in with shotguns, maybe one on the team as a door breacher, the rest, nope, AR’s with short barrels in 5.56.

    24 million government trained AR owners aren’t going out and buying a shotgun when they already know how to field strip, clean, load, operate, and shoot the AR. They know it will put a round downrange and they have training to fall back on already.

    It’s the 220 million other citizens who don’t have a clue. All too many aren’t even allowed to buy a firearm because of their upbringing and the prejudice of their neighbors and friends.

    The shotgun is already dead, it’s those who are still stuck in a dreadfully conservative view of firearms use 40 years ago who refuse to see it.

    • As one of the prior service members you speak of, I disagree with the shotgun being obsolete as a home defense weapon. The M4/16 can engage targets both up close and from several hundred meters away. However, this article is about home defense, not a be all, end all, repel the foreign invaders from your town weapon. For most homeowners a shotgun is a devastating option and cheaper alternative to an AR. Which is not to say an AR doesnt have its merits and your statements supporting it I definitely agree with, but it has not made the shotgun obsolete.
      Especially if you dont have kids and have no reason to leave your bedroom at night if someone is breaking in, as clearing a building by yourself is never an appealing option, no matter what you Are armed with.

    • i just called you an icky name.
      scatter guns got little to do with hundreds of yards.
      glad you’re happy with your training and your issued weapon.
      thank you for your service.
      check back in a large number of years.
      what you were given to perform your duty has ‘nowt to do with waking up groggy in my world.

  50. What, no TTAG denizens with Revocable Trusts? Get a SBS, no problemo.
    Get your James Caan, bad-ass shorty like in the John Wayne movie, El Dorado.
    Add a suppressor to it; you’ve got the gun trust for the SBS, and no ear damage.
    I mean really, who doesn’t have $75?

  51. The shotgun is a fantastic HD weapon. But it has the most complicated manual of arms of any type of firearm. It requires much training to become and remain competent in its use. Have you practiced reloading it? In the dark? Covered in baby oil? On a boat with a goat? Have you, Sam I Am?

  52. This article is complete nonsense. Let’s just completely forget about the perfectly legal and viable option of owning an short-barreled shotgun with a $200 tax stamp. Add a pistol grip like what is seen on a Franchi SPAS-12 or Benelli M2, and you have a firearm that could easily be wielded with one arm if the need arises. Obviously, it would be strenuous to fire a string of shots, but you could get an accurate close quarters shot off if the need presented itself. Plus, who clears a room, and slices the pie with one hand on your firearm? This article doesn’t even seem remotely on point.

  53. If I have to get in a gun fight with a perp, I want something that kills or incapacitates them quick. I do not want them wounded and shooting me. After looking at gel blocks at the NRA convention, I just do not think pistol rounds are going to take the perp out of action unless hitting a really vital spot.

  54. I had an idea the other day after reading about the Raptor grips for PG-only shotguns. If you took a factory-made 14″ 590 that had a Raptor grip on it from the factory (26″ OAL), and stuck an AR PG/stock-adapter on it and used an SB15, it should be neither an SBS nor an AOW.

  55. No, shotguns aren’t “relatively heavy”. You can get a 18.5″ 20ga pump that weighs less than 6lbs unloaded (look at Mossbergs). And up close, 20ga is going to be plenty enough.

    In terms of stopping power, the difference between 12ga or even 20ga, and any pistol round, is night and day. Shotgun can actually stop an attacker in a single hit, reliably.

    • Yeah, really. One 2-3/4 20ga of 00 is like two .44 Magnums-worth of energy, but with more lead and multiple projectiles, so it won’t be wasted on overpenetration.

    • True dat. The only things I liked about my m16 was the giggle switch and its light weight. But I’ve seen rambo wannabes at the range with so much crap on their ARs that they weighed more than my Mosin Nagant 91/30.

  56. My Benelli M1 90 is light, compact, and can be loaded with 9 rounds. It can be configured with different stocks, lights, grips etc and is completely reliable. ARs are loud too and more likely to have feeding problems.
    The scattergun offers so many choices in loads and capabilities it’s insane to declare it dead for home defense.

  57. So aside from costing three times as much and being far larger/heavier, what do these things really do that a normal handgun can’t for home defense? At least an actual pistol caliber carbine has the advantage of comparatively tame muzzle blast…not these though.

  58. 12 guage too robuts for you? Use a 20guage. At halitosis range it’s just as deadly.

    Shotguns are LOUD?…..newsflash. Without a suppressor ALL guns are REALLY loud.
    And inside a home even a .22 is deafening. Once you exceed a threshold for noise
    anything beyond that is JUST LOUD….the ears can’t tell the difference.

    Shotgun too long for maneuvering? ALL long guns have the same restriction unless you
    pay the tax for a short barreled weapon.

    Some weapons need training?…..nope. ALL weapons are more effective with practice and
    training, not just the ones the author doesn’t like.

    And if you can’t rack a pump reliably they make REALLY nice and effective semi auto shotty’s
    in both 12 and 20 guage.

    The ONLY advantage that an AR has over a shotgun is the issue of penetration and that is
    only if compared to OOO buck. Use a smaller shot and the energy is still there but overpenetration
    becomes much less of an issue.

    With practiced ANY weapon can be the proper weapon, without practice any weapon can get
    you in trouble. But in the middle of the night ANY weapon is preferable to no weapon.

  59. The big takeaway I got from the article posted a few weeks ago by the combat medic was: A 12 gauge is the only firearm that will reliably incapacitate an attacker with just one shot.

  62. Now wait a second, WHERE are we hearing that the MPX will come in at the same price as an inexpensive AR-15? I am thinking more in the $1500 range, although I suppose in SIG world that might qualify as an ‘inexpensive’ AR-15.

      • Where the heck are you getting that pricing from? Cabela’s has the MPX w/brace listed for $1700 right now. Sure, Cabela’s isn’t known for their discount pricing, but they don’t generally charge double what other stores do. So where in the real world can I get one of these for under a thousand?

        • The $1,700 is the “sale” price with a regular price listed as $1,999. No thank you. I will stick with my Mossberg.

        • No kidding. For two grand, I can buy a shotgun for every room in my house, and quite a few cases of ammo to practice with…

  66. Is there even a release date or has any of them even shown up in shops?
    It almost seemed like it was going to be vaporware.

  67. Not a shotgun guy but I presume that 12 gauge out of a 18.5 inch barrel is quieter and less earbursting than 5.56 out of a 10.5 inch barrel.

    Personally, something like a MP5 (especially if it is a K model) or something is a good HD gun. Or a 7.62×39 SBR AK with a suppressor and subsonic ammo.

  68. interesting points. However living in california the chances of finding a MPX are very low. Most gun shops I have been to around me are scared of selling an ar pistol. It’s like gun shops treat new firearms like the rest of california treats all firearms.

    I just picked up a KSG shotgun. That addresses the issues of length and handling. If I ever see an ar pistol I will pick one up.

  69. “For one thing, the National Firearms Act prohibits Americans from owning shotguns with a barrel length shorter than 18 inches or an overall length shorter than 26 inches.”

    Umm, no it doesn’t. You pay the tax and you can get your SBS.

  70. From the situation and conditions you describe, it seems that any AR15 Pistol would be better than a shotgun.
    Having the Brace does make it easier to shoot with one hand, but still an AR can still be operated with one hand. At Close Quarters you don’t really need to aim it, you can just put a Laser combo Light on it and you are good to go.
    Also, wearing a firearm with a sling in Close Quarters can be a disadvantage since a skilled person can use the sling to Choke you.

  71. First you say the shotgun won’t work because the average user has zero training and will screw it up. Then you say “The vast majority of armed Americans would be better off using a SIG SAUER MPX than a home defense shotgun.” Really? With no training? Because that’s the comparison.

    Oh right, this thing is so fun we’re going to go to the range to practice with it instead of our shotgun.

    Look I understand about your need to create a headline to get people to read this, but it’s so provocative that the article itself doesn’t back it up. We don’t care about the average person, we interpret the information in our settings, our situation. And for me, my shotgun remains my first choice. (And why am I going to spend another what, $1,500 for something with almost zero likelihood I would need?)

  72. This article is a little on the absurd side. . . I train with a Mossberg 500 tactical, my M&P, Glock 19 sidearms, and also a Sig 716 patrol. Of ALL the aforementioned firearms I have access to, when I hear a bump in the night, I grab the Mossberg. There is NOTHING that compares to having that amount of sheer force in your hands. Yeah that little 5.56 might seem nice, but I’m in the business of putting somebody DOWN. My follow up shot should be on another assailant, not the same guy. Not to mention I train in quick reloads and ammo changes, I can shoot twice center mass, quick change out to slug and knock his buddy out at 50 yards in the blink of an eye. Heavy? No, that is false. My Mossberg is easier to manipulate than my 716, or my colt 9mm carbine. Noise? Shotguns don’t have the sonic boom of a rifle, and ARE easier on the ears. Pistols hurt my ears far more than my 12 gauge, and my 716 is the worst (7.62×51). As far as the weight, I have the option between a SIG 716 (9+ pounds unloaded) or my shotgun, I go for the shotgun, in the home of course. Yeah my 716 is great for dropping prone and hitting those 200 yard shots in a rush, but its too heavy for in the home, and will penetrate my entire home, and into the neighbors house across the road. The recoil is a lot more on a 12 gauge, so that is a limiting factor, but it is one that can easily be overcome. The benefits of increased firepower in confrontation for me, outweigh the benefits of a smaller platform. With my sling, even if the “bad guy” gets my barrel from around the corner, my sidearm is there and he’ll be shot either way, very quickly. Many of us are not internet know it all pricks, we train with what we own, not just paper targets, but actually train hard with what we have. I’m not discrediting how a smaller platforms does have advantages, but I’m not into articles that claim the “do all” weapon has been discovered. . .

  75. I find it amazing that literally millions of hunters manage to navigate brush and shoot birds that fly 40 mph with a 28″ barrel in a space that makes a camper seem like Taj Mahal. Yet, the idiot that wrote this article cannot navigate a home with 30″ doors carrying a shotgun with an 18.5″ barrel. The author demonstrates a serious lack of training and general knowledge of firearms.

    • Birdies and bunnies don’t grab the barrel and rip it out of your hands, Elmer Fudd. Nor do they shoot back.

      There’s a reason that even the English and the Japanese are allowed to own shotguns: they are fine “sporting” toys but lousy weapons.

      • SSGO~So why would the intruder have a better grip on the shotgun than the home resident? What, do you think the defender is walking around with the stock to his shoulder in the house? Cross body, there is no stick-out and the defender doesn’t round the corner with the barrel preceding him! 18″ cylinder bore with #9 shot would be my preference over my Glock 23, 40 S&W.

  76. Waiting on my 870 Marine. I would go hat first if I had the time to get it.

    I always felt that a shotgun is going to be most effective since aim is not as critical with the right load. Get enough spread and maybe take out 2 with 1 shot like the movies. I will worry about the hearing, mess and paperwork after I secure my life, property and home.

    • You might want to worry about getting some training before anything else.

      If you think a shotgun is going to spread enough to “maybe take out 2” at inside-the-home ranges, you are deluded.

  77. Got a Mossberg 500 Tac Persuader with 6 position stock,LED light and red fiber sight. I don’t have anyone here but my wife so don’t have to search the house/get children to a safe area. My 40 cal SW M&P can be used for clearing purposes if need be. Have a deadbolt on the bedroom door so it would be call 911 and stay put with the shotgun. For me is all about economics and the shotgun/pistol combo will be the last guns I’ll ever purchase because they offer all the firepower I’ll need. I practice speed loading the shotgun every week for obvious reasons.

  78. Of course, no sooner than you post this article, the ATF comes out and declares a pistol with a Sig Brace a “short rifle” and therefore a FFA weapon…I think you need a rewrite

    • @G. Hilbert,
      Yep. Anyone that thinks the SG as a home defense weapon is dead, has never seen the result of said SG on a bad guy. Armchair commandos.

  79. I have been trained since 13 with my remington 1100. I doubt that it is not the most lethal thing in my home that an intruder could face. I have shot countless deer with this weapon without hearing protection. The high chamber pressure of the ar15 also creates a lot of noise, not as much as a 12 gauge but plenty enough to be disorienting. I’m not sure where this article is going but the best gun to protect your home is the one that you are most comfortable with.

  80. Will your wife and children be wearing hearing protection when you face an intruder with any firearm? The concussion resulting from firing a weapon in a closed space is deafening, even a .22 caliber. There is truly no real good alternative to a HD weapon: not enough stopping power, too loud, too bulky, too long, too hard to handle, difficult to load, too expensive, hard to aim, etc., etc. Essentially, you make a decision, train, practice properly and pray to God you never need the training, practice or weapon to actually defend yourself or your family. Said another way, “you pays your money and you takes your chances.”

  81. I was really hoping to get through the comments without hearing the sheep bleating about how racking a shotgun will scare the bad guys. Utter stupidity.

  82. This is a stupid article and comparison. Trying to say that the home defense shotgun is now dead and SBRs have taken over is just pure asinine. How can a person, in one sentence talk about lights being bad on shotguns, and then in another sentence say a single bullet is better? If you don’t have a light on your gun, wouldn’t you want more than 1 projectile per trigger pull? ESPECIALLY if you are inexperienced enough not to know how to use a gun light!!

    I was thoroughly disappointed with the whole article, and I like both guns. I don’t have a particle preference to either. To say that the new SIG MPX is the new “home defense weapon” is just stupid!

    Wait, wait, let me strap this to my wrist before you charge down my hall…. Wait, wait, I’m shooting 9mm and need several shots….

  83. About two and a half years ago a buddy of mine got rid of his hd pump gun in favor of a semi auto .45 pistol. Echoing the points in the article of why he felt it was the superior choice.

    He works a swing shift getting him home around 3am. A few months after his trade off for hd, he came home with an it if place car sitting a few houses down with 4 guys sitting in it. After getting inside he watched them a while to see what they were up to. A few minutes later, three got out of the car and pulled sks rifles out of the trunk. One started traveling through his front yard and the other two disappeared to the back yard.

    His wife and three kids were asleep in their rooms, as he stood alone in the dark, dialing 911, watching his back door with his 45 leveled.

    Ultimately these assailants were trying to rob a house several doors down from him. The police arrived and caught the driver and one other perp then and the other two a few minutes later. But he said that he had never felt more defenseless then that moment waiting for his backdoor knob to start turning or it getting kicked in.

    He still has the 45 in his night stand. But there’s a 12 gauge pump three steps away from that in his closet.

    Never underestimate the lengths a criminal will go to. And never overestimate how prepared you are when/if that time comes.

    Close range in home defense? I’ll take the four inch hole my ksg makes in whatever it hits any day over the pea sized hole (even a large pea) a handgun makes.

    And the idea that you’re more likely to miss with a long gun (no matter how short) over and a handgun is ludicrous. Everyone knows the further the distance between the sights the more accuracy can increase.

    And Stopping power and over penetration are two different things. I wouldn’t be intent on killing an intruder, just neutralizing the threat they pose. If they die from inflicted injuries, then it would be unfortunate for them.

    HD shotguns won’t die in the foreseeable future because the positives far outweigh the negatives. Shotguns cover more possible scenarios of a home invasion as the weapon of choice than anything else available IMHO.

  84. My shotgun is alive and well. If an inanimate object has such awareness. It works, I’ll keep it. But having a choice of the latest whiz bang stuff is nice too. 7 lbs is not heavy, low brass 00 buckshot has very little recoil, rack it like you mean it, adjustable stock, 18″ barrel clears my doors. If six 00 won’t do it, I am probably in the wrong house. A shotgun’s death has been greatly exaggerated.

  85. The article’s title is obviously a ‘hook’ to attract readers and I get it as it caught my attention as one of the most sacrilegious heathen-like pieces of “prose” I’ve had the extreme displeasure of reading of late ;)…Seriously though, the writer raises some real questions (though in an editorial-like manner) that any shooter should seriously consider to be sure (but it can be said IMO of any weapon).

    However, “they” have mistakenly been writing the ‘scattergun obituary’ for literally 25+ years now (at least)…Yet, conversely it has (arguably) remained one of the very top HD firearm choices for countless American Homes for obvious reasons I shall not go into at the moment but is most definitely basic ‘public’ knowledge…

    Here’s the bottom line as I see it: Any (and yes I do mean any) firearm that sends lead downrange can be an Extremely effective, suitable choice for the ever so important role of HD (as well as a myriad of other uses as well). The caveat here, of course, is the indispensable (mandatory) need/requirement for TRAINING…In this light and, for example, I have literally seen ‘competent’ shooters (translation=trained) run a single-shot break-open shotgun as well as some people run a pump (or even a semi)…

    As for me, I rely on my shotguns to keep the piece in my neck of the woods…

    -Cheers

  86. “The Home Defense Shotgun is Dead”

    Why? Did someone shoot it with a shotgun? .. Cos that’ll do it every time..

    , )

  87. When I reach for a long gun in the middle of a night I have 3 options.
    1. A Remington 870
    2. An AR-15
    3. A Tavor

    I chose the Tavor every time. Its shorter length and balance (weight is mostly in the back) make it quick to point and the easiest for me to use in close quarters. Its design also allows me to use it one handed the easiest of the three allowing my free hand to open doors, call 911 etc.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like all three firearms and will never give up the 870 or AR- they make great back up weapons and have specific situations where I’d prefer them over the Tavor, but for overall first choice I agree with some of the points the author is making. I too used to grab the shotgun first, but now my go to long gun is something else- in my case its the Tavor.

  88. I understand the negatives, but every gun has negatives when it comes to any kind of defense. Just because you don’t like the shotgun for home defense does not mean that it is dead and really isn’t the best choice. I use a 12 gauge and I train almost every day of maneuvering through my house and how to best position myself for a gun fight.

  89. WHAT!? The home defense shotgun is dead I’ll tell you w’hat!?

    Someone break into your home? Pump that fucking shotgun! They’ll shit and piss their pants at the same time and turn the other way! Pissed cause you’re hungry and the better half isn’t making any sandwiches? Pump that fucking shotgun and you’ll be fed immediately! Have a flat tire? Pump that fucking shotgun and it’ll magically make that tire full again! Sad cause your dog has cancer? PUMP THAT FUCKING SHOTGUN AND IT’S SURE TO CURE IT!

  91. AR’s aren’t all that much shorter, mate. An M4 carbine in military configuration comes out to 30 inches when fully collapsed, and that’s with the military length barrel which would mean an SBR for civilians. A civilian AR which is not an SBR is going to be a minimum of an inch or two longer, and that’s assuming the barrel is as short as it can be and the stock is tucked in all the way. The legal minimum length for a shotgun comes out to around 28 inches. In terms of noise, anything supersonic is going to be horribly loud, and a short barrel only makes it worse. Shotgun projectiles, being subsonic and coming from somewhat longer barrels, are quieter. But these two things are beside the point.

    The real place where a carbine does in the shotgun is the firepower. A cap of approximately 7 rounds which typically must be both manually cycled and loaded individually versus the ability to load magazines of normally a minimum of 30 rounds which can be fired as quickly as one can pull the trigger. And then there’s the elimination of the risks of accidentally ejecting a live round or shortstroking the action. And then there’s the fact that any SCHV round recoils much more gently than 12ga. Throw in the ability to accessorize the gun and defeat body armor, and you have a winning combination.

  92. You know at least a dozen individuals who have short-stroked their pump shotgun in action? Really? Ahem…that child psychology stuff brings you in contact with a lot of people with tactical experience.

  93. I don’t care what any of you say! You cant go wrong with a 18 1/2 shotgun with 3″ magnum 000 buck Remington Express, 2 3/4 00 buck Winchester military, and Brenneke K.O. slugs… I can stop multiple assailants with the triple or double, and definitely crack your chest bracket hiding behind kevlar with the Brenneke at the same time dismantle ur car/truck engine to a dead stop as well! And have range at the same time. Add a heat shield, and a 4″ extension and you’ve got more fire power to mix in short magnum Military Brenneke slugs for that ass! Beat that!

  94. The author may be technically correct but completely ignores the reality of firearms laws and public perception in some states. In NY, you cannot possess an AR-15 or MPX unless you registered one before the SAFE Act deadline. You cannot possess a handgun without a permit. Some cannot get permits. Even if you could legally possess and use an AR-15 or handgun, you may not want to because you do want authorities to have records of your firearms. In the event an assailant lives, you have a better chance during a jury trial with a shotgun than an MPX or handgun. It’s all about public perception in a predominately liberal state. That being said, from a pragmatic standpoint, a shotgun is probably your best choice in NY. Maybe not the best technically, but the best when reality is taken into consideration. And after a confrontation, reality hits hard.

  95. Forgot to add that at least in NY the police will most likely confiscate the weapon for an indeterminate amount of time, even in a self-defense scenario. When, and if, you get it back you have no idea of the condition it will be in (scratched or rusted). No way would I take a risk like that with an expensive firearm. I would use the MPX as a range queen, and nothing else.

  96. Maybe Your shotgun is dead. MINE sure as Hell is not! Yes, it is long and a bit heavy. Mine is an older 1100 I have fitted a 3-shot extension and 20″ cylinder bore barrel to. This gun was long my skeet killer. NO malfunctions whatsoever in 15 years, killing skeet at least twice a month. I still shoot a few rounds of skeet each year with it. Yes, in this configuration! Still, no malfunctions. True, I use quality ammo. How’s that for reliability??? Recoil? It is chambered for only 2 3/4″ shells. Female operation? Given that they can pick it up & point it, take off the safety & pull the trigger. No short stroke, just “criminal justice” pouring forth. AND, at least for the first 3 rounds, make the shells hold BB-size shot. Lead or steel, whatever I can buy. After that, buck, then slug. Yes, I clean & maintain my 1100. Hopefully everyone reading this maintains their HOME defense weapon. Emphasis on HOME, not a field weapon.

  97. I have one of those “barely legal” shotguns myself. I built it out of a Maverick 88 12 gauge with a 26″ inch barrel many years ago, just because it was on sale and really cheap. I fired 25 rounds of birdshot through it on a trip to the desert, with several other guns, then brought it home and put it away. A few months ago, after seeing the Mossberg 500 “Cruiser”, I decided to build one out of my Maverick 88. I cut the barrel down to the minimum legal length, replaced the full stock with a Hogue pistol grip, put a 6 shot side saddle on it, Along with an XTA Tactical heat shield (mostly for looks) and a sling that holds a few more shells. I have been shooting this gun quite often, using birdshot, buckshot, and slugs. Of course I wear hearing protection. This gun seems to work best when fired from about halfway between the shoulder and the waist. The key to avoid seriously sore arms after a lot of shooting is to keep your muscles just a little bit loose. The first time I fired it with the pistol grip, it almost knocked me down. Then I learned to lower it a bit, and let my muscles absorb the recoil. Once you get it right you can shoot it all day with no pain. Anyway, I have a lot of practice with it, and am getting more all the time. One type of ammo there is no shortage of around here is shotgun shells. This gun now stands right next to my bed, along with my 9mm semi auto. It is not likely anyone is going to get close enough to grab the barrel, I would shoot them first. If, just if, they somehow managed to grab the barrel while my finger was on the trigger, they would shoot themselves. A shot of anything made of lead at that distance is going to put someone down permanently.

  98. Shotguns shall always have their place. Accessories that are often overlooked include: mop, bucket, soap, bleach, rags, sponges, paber towells, garbage bags, and shovels.
    I hope this is helpful.
    Crabby

  99. A handgun is better than a shotgun in home defense…

    even chris costa agrees…

    Imagine waking up in the middle of the night and trying to clear your house with an 18” barrel gun – that’s what a shotgun is! You also need to be able to work a light on it while being stealthy and efficient.

    If I wake up in the middle of the night, half naked, needing to defend my family and my home, I can shoot and employ my handgun one-handed while I grab my children and maneuver around my house extremely quickly, all the while knowing that I have 17 rounds at my disposal. If you have to grab one of your kids because they’ve popped out in between you and a threat, then you’re stuck trying to fire a 12 gauge one-handed; it can be done (I do it all the time in my demonstrations), but not without a lot of practice, and it’s certainly not ideal.

    I also believe that trying to deal with a threat that you can’t see is a much greater concern than one you can see. If there’s an intruder in my house that is visible, then I am actually in the process of solving that particular problem. If there’s someone in my house that I can’t see, that scares me much more. So imagine that you have someone in your house that you can’t see, you don’t have ear protection, and you don’t have a suppressor and are not using a handgun (handguns naturally being quieter than a shotgun) – if you fire that shotgun it’s going to be extremely loud, and you will probably lose your hearing for a few minutes. Those few minutes can be vital, because the intruder now knows where you are and you’re unable to be as alert as you normally would. Having that suppressor addition is very important to me; using a handgun with a suppressor means if it fires a foot and a half from my ears, my hearing is still protected.

    So to sum it up, if I clear my house during the night with a handgun, I can shoot suppressed, I can white light, I can work one-handed if I need to grab one of my kids, and if push came to shove I could pistol-punch an intruder with the muzzle of my gun. I can’t do any of that with a shotgun.

    When I think of my shotgun as a home defense gun, I imagine that I’m up and alert, waking around the interior of my house or outside the perimeter. I imagine my family is somewhere safe and that I don’t have to worry about shielding them or grabbing them back. When I think of a 12 gauge as a home defense gun, I imagine I’m anticipating an attack and am preparing for whatever chaos may ensue.

    Unfortunately, and especially in America, men have a tendency to buy their women 870 shotguns,12 gauge shotguns, or 20 gauge – any shotgun really. And they tell them, “This is for home defense. If you rack it, you’ll scare the intruder away.” But, it just doesn’t work that way. So now you have a woman on the phone with 911, your children behind her, and she needs to pull and manipulate a shotgun while keeping track of her family and talking to the emergency service line. It would be much easier for her to pull out a handgun with a light already integrated onto it, take cover behind the bed to protect herself and the children, and save her family.

    And in regards to ‘racking the pump to scare an intruder’ I’m not there to scare the intruder, nor would I want my loved ones to just scare an intruder; I want to shoot the intruder. If someone steps into my home with malicious intent, they get smoked. A pump shouldn’t be used to scare somebody; it should be used to show them that you mean business.

    So that’s how I approach the home defense role, and where I see the shotgun and handgun fitting in.
    http://www.rem870.com/2012/04/27/full-interview-with-chris-costa/

    anyone can handle a handgun…. effectively..

  100. Mr Fargo I certainaly respect your opinion,but it is obvious
    that you have never been involved in close a close quarter
    room to room gun fight.a 26 inch shot gun leaves room for error
    under pressure. Any fire arm must be practiced with, however a
    20 gauge or 12 requires less training and allows for a quicker and
    greater coverage than any hand gun.

    respectfully Jeffrey Smith

  102. This is dumb…. If you want ultimate ease of use get a 9MM Baretta handgun…. Not a 2+ foot long 9mm…. makes no sense at all… OR… better yet, get a Mossberg 500 18.5″ barrel w/ pistol grip shotgun w/active flashlight on the barrel with more forgiving spread, stopping power and ease of use. Frankly if you cannot pump a shotgun correctly then you are also not going to use a firearm correctly in my estimation. Yes a shotgun blast in your home will make your ears ring but think about the psychological on the person breaking in? Id rather my ears ring a bit and make the idiot drop a load in his pants….

    just sayin…

  103. Shotgun is one of the best choices for home defense. Actually, 18 inch barrel shotgun is not that long and suitable for home defense. It enables shooter to maneuver inside the house quite easily. Even tiny girls shoot 12 gauge shotguns without any problems in our shooting club. So you can get used to recoil after several trainings. Don’t purchase a gun if you don’t want to train.

  104. Best home defense weapon is, A) one that goes bang when you shoot it; B) one that you can aim and hit your target and C) one that shoots ammunition that doesn’t penetrate walls.

    If you have solid brick or concrete walls, I suppose this is non-issue, but also you don’t want to have a 9mm or .45 go through a window. For me this means a shotgun with buckshot, or if you just want to scare the perp, a flash grenade.

  105. Sooooo… I think this articla was a little wrong about how much the MPX would cost.

  107. 42 year old Media Producer (Excluding Movie ) Zerbe from Sioux Lookout, really loves amateur radio,
    Poker986.co and rock music. Was particulary encouraged after touring Hoi An Ancient Town.

  108. I like em both, but I’ll take an AR pistol in 5.56 over both. More stopping power than a 9mm but more maneuverable and lighter recoiling than a shotgun. I have electronic hearing protection right next to it, so the concern of hearing loss is reduced though not completely eliminated.

  110. Eh, a shotgun is just like anything else. Put in the time to get to know your weapon and how to run it, and you’ll be fine. All I will say is that a hit with 00 buckshot at in-the-home distances is WAY more effective then a 9mm hit. Granted, you can shoot faster with an pistol (usually). Choices, choices…

  112. People, let’s be honest with ourselves here. What all of us want in a situation where we have to fight for our lives is a gun that doesn’t fight us when we swing to a target or when we want to flip the safety off or pull the trigger. We also don’t want it to disorient us through violent recoil or excessive noise. And we definitely want it to be reliable.

    A few months ago I would have said that this would be a compact 9mm pistol/pistol-caliber carbine. And I reaffirm that this option is fantastic for home defense. You get capacity, ease of use and reliability. The noise of it without ear protection can be jarring, but certainly far less than a 12 gauge shotgun. I still had my situational awareness when one went off 2 feet from my face in my living room out of a Glock 26.

    However, after firing many hundreds of rounds of .22lr in rapid succession without issues of any kind, I think it’s a viable alternative for those who can’t handle 9mm recoil/noise level. .22lr often sounds like a glorified cap gun without ear protection, far easier to deal with than 9mm. I regularly practice with it without ear pro. There are of course caveats to .22lr that aren’t as big a deal with 9mm such as ammunition preference in your gun. Not all .22lr brands, models, or individual firearms are the same. You need to test a variety of brands in your particular .22lr to see if any have hiccups and avoid buying that brand in the future unless for practice. My Henry H001 loves CCI standard velocity and has ~90% reliability with Remington golden bullets. I wouldn’t hesitate to trust my life to that gun for home defense.

    As for lethality, well, stopping power is largely BS. Unless you’re literally sundering tissue via shockwave (which doesn’t happen with most small arms) you’re gonna have to aim folks, sorry. Where do you aim? The heart. If you miss that, what’s behind it? Lungs. Behind that? The central nervous system. It doesn’t matter if you’re putting 1,000 footpounds or 50 footpounds into a critical area, the moment the tissue is penetrated the damage is done. Just the scroll of truth at work.

    By far the most important factor of home defense is, get good with what you got. Practice weekly at all costs. Turn that gun into an extension of your willpower, because you don’t your only stacking the odds against yourself.

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