Volunteer fighters armed with assault rifles patrolled central Kyiv on Friday, ready to defend their country.
Follow live updates. https://t.co/hQc2wYb6r0 pic.twitter.com/n2B2lPrgVL
— The New York Times (@nytimes) February 26, 2022
Yes, this is the New York Times writing approvingly of average Ukrainian citizens taking up arms to defend themselves, their families, and their country. They’re being thousands of what the Times refers to as “assault rifles” for which most of them will have had little to no training at all.
Not that it matters. When your country is being attacked by a foreign army, you use the weapons at hand.
An estimated 18,000 assault rifles, variants of the Kalashnikov, have been distributed in Kyiv since Thursday.
For many in line, the decision to pick up arms and fight a street battle against one of the world’s largest armies was driven by patriotism.
“I don’t really have any choice,” said Hlib Bondarenko, a 21-year-old computer programmer. “This is my home. I have nowhere to go, and I’m not going to give it up.”
Olena Sokolan, a business manager, stood proudly in a line made up mostly of men.
“I am a woman, but I am strong,” Ms. Sokolan said. “I don’t have any fear. I’m ready.”
See Russian, point rifle, pull trigger.
This is the same New York Times that writes so approvingly of “assault weapons” bans here in the US of A. Never mind that the muddled old Gray Lady has written that Clinton’s AWB both failed miserably and worked as intended. Because as Americans are seeing hourly on their televisions and news feeds, who really needs an “assault rifle” anyway?
“This is the same New York Times that writes so approvingly of “assault weapons” bans here in the US of A.”
Not seeing the irony here. Ukrainians are fending off an invasion, which is quite different from dealing with crime (for which, obviously, law-abiding citizens with guns are completely responsible – there are stats somewhere supporting that). Canada and Mexico, severally or individually, are not poised to use their military to invade the US (yet). So, “apples and oranges” for NYT, and the leftists NYT serves/controls.
The really big issue with Russia invading Ukraine is the list of other countries Russia already threatened with invasion if NATO doesn’t terminate membership. Not to mention that Finland and Sweden have been threatened if they join are allowed to join NATO.
The second biggest issue is Taiwan. The Chicoms do not see destroying the center of computer chip manufacturing as something needing to be preserved. Remember, China is a peasant nation, like N.Korea, and overwhelming poverty is not a condition that would serve as a deterrent. If China would be the ruler of an impoverished world, at least China would be ruler. They made what they have today, out of virtually nothing, why would they not be able to do that again?
What ASSault rifle? I have an ordinary AR. No giggle switch. Putin isn’t looking to reduce Ukraine to rubble. Just installing a pro-russian proxy. A central tenet of leftards is lie. Taqiya for dims…besides this is abstract to the them. Where’s my free AK???
The AR isn’t an assault rifle, its just demonized as one by gun-control freaks and the MSM by use of a twisted and false interpretation intended to scare the public. The AR-15 is not an ‘assault rifle’ like these idiots claim, it never has been and it never will be.
And, not to leave out…
There has never been even one commercially made (or put together from commercially made parts) intended for the civilian market AR-15 that has ever passed the testing and standards for an ‘assault rifle’ and not a one has ever been used as an ‘assault rifle’ by the U.S. military under those standards and testing as defined in the military testing used by the U.S. government.
“A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet… “
Bill S.
Booger, I suspect (don’t know) that statement is incorrect. Remember, the AR15/M16 was around 25 years old before the NFA registry was closed, there very well might be thousands of select fire ARs around the country, completely legal “assault rifles”.
Minor MINOR49ER it is very clear that you have no clue what an AR is. For your edification, an AR is NOT an “assault rifle”. As a matter of fact there is no such thing as an “assault rifle”. The term “assault rifle” is a Leftist term made up to demonize the AR-15.
The correct term would be battle rifle. To be a battle rifle, it must be capable of three round burst and single fire. The AR doesn’t have three round burst capability.
Now do us all a favor and get an education.
ARs WERE assault rifles, when they first came out. The original ARs were capable of shooting automatic, they still exist today, they’re the predecessors of the M16. Once Remington bought the rights from Armalite and created the M16, all of ARs that were ever made after that have been semi auto. Look it up…
Barry, I regret to inform you that the AR-15 when it was initially invented by Mr Stoner was NOT a assault rifle. The term “assault rifle” is a made up term by the anti-gun radicals and media to demonize the AR’s and AK’s. For your edification the Colt Firearms Co. was the one that purchased the AR rights from Armilite. Your facts as usual are arse backwards. Reminton did not purchase the rights until long after.
The correct term is “battle rifle” but that doesn’t sound so “sexy”. When first invested the AR-15 was nothing more than a semiautomatic rifle. When Mr Stoner introduced it to the Defense Department, he made one that was capable to full automatic fire as well as single shot.
I do with you would get your facts straight. Have a good day!
The AR-15 is most definitely an assault rifle < Sturmgewehr = “storm,” as in “storm the barricades,” “attack” + “gewehr” = rifle. Its military designation is M16. The non-selective fire, semiautomatic version generally sold to the American public is NOT an assault rifle.
HenryK, Horse pucky! The term “assault rifle” is a made up tern devised by anti-gun fanatics. The correct term would be “semi-automatic rifle.
To give you a history lesson, the AR-15 was invented by Eugene Stoner who tried to sell it to the military in the 1950’s. It was eventually adopted when General Curtis LeMay saw the rifle and wanted it for his SAC Air Police. The Army was slow to adopt it but finally did when it was found the the M-14 was too heavy and cumbersome. (Personally, I think the M-14 is superior to the M-16 as the AR’s were finally named). for your edification here is a complete history of the AR-15:
https://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/the-complete-history-of-the-ar-15-rifle
I believe if you will look in the DOD manual, they do describe an ‘assault rifle’. It is defined as a select fire rifle, firing a caliber of ammunition more powerful than a sidearm but less powerful than a ‘battle rifle’. I assume a battle rifle to be an M-14, M-1 Garand. The term ‘assault weapon’ is the term used by the media to scare people. There is no such thing as an ‘assault weapon’. No one can even define the term and then justify their definition. Biden’s nominee for the ATF, David Chapman, couldn’t even define it when being questioned during his confirmation hearing.
Billy M Thanks for proving my point that the AR-15 is NOT an “assault rifle.” For your further edification as DOD has gone WOKE, I am not surprised that they have picked up on the Leftist-anti-gun radical term “assault rifle.” If you read some of my posts, you will see that I said the anti-gun radical are using the term “assault rifle” to scare people. Any rifle used in battle by the armed forces is a “battle rifle.” IN that you can include the M-16, and the M-4 .
Mexico has not invaded the USA?
never been to California or Texas have ya in the last 40 years?
heck even the 8 years under Odumbutt!
“Mexico has not invaded the USA?”
Armed invasion, old bean; armed invasion.
Besides, the influx of illegal aliens is heavily supported by the populace. If it were a real concern, it would be a “single-issue” for voters. Yet, in order to get other things they want, they tolerate the swamping of the border.
Back to basics – the conversation is about comparing armed invasion of a separate nation, with self-defense against armed criminal attack in this nation.
Yo Sam, you telling me that the Narcos aren’t armed to the teeth? Yeah they don’t load up the average drug mule with guns, cause they don’t trust them not to oops the bossman accidentally on purpose. What percentage are carrying drugs to help pay off their debt? My guess is almost all the ones that duck out from turning themselves over to the Border Patrol, at least till they have dropped off their load and need a free trip to where ever the Coyote tells them to go; your tax dollars at work.
Sorry stupid sam,
the majority of the people do NOT support the influx of illegal immigrants.
And it matters not that they be armed, they are still a overwhelming force that are a drain on our resources that effect our lives in a negative manner.
We now have a war vs. Crime and drugs.
Link, gotta say, the majority of the people do not KNOW they are supporting the influx of illegal immigrants, and yet they are. They shop where the prices are determined by illegals working for less than minimum wage, and tell all their friends to do so as well. They pay for yard work in cash to avoid illegals needing to pay taxes or SS. On and on.
When those illegal aliens cross the border, they are unarmed, but then after the cartel drug runners arrive they obtain firearms and have been known to use them. Please don’t for get this fact.
@Sam I Am
“Ukrainians are fending off an invasion, which is quite different from dealing with crime (for which, obviously, law-abiding citizens with guns are completely responsible – there are stats somewhere supporting that).”
I get the point you are trying to make, but it is missing the reality factor.
Its true that fending off a military invasion is different in terms of military strength – but crime is also in numbers that although not at military strength is still more frequently in numbers just as deadly. Gone are the days where it was common for the majority of crime to be a lone criminal vs a lone defender. Today the majority of crime encountered is two, three, four, and sometimes more criminals against a lone defender. So, the reality is that crime today is also an ‘invasion’ because its everywhere and growing and the numbers of criminals against lone defenders has increased and this threat is just as deadly as one would encounter in a military invasion as we seek to protect the sovereignty of our lives and homes and property like those encountering a military invasion of their country would seek to protect the sovereignty of their lives and homes and property by protecting their country.
If the Ukraine government told its citizens and military today to lay down their arms and surrender, and they did it, the Russians would march in and occupy the country with ease. The killing would (probably) stop (hopefully, at least for the most part) but that’s because the Russian occupying force of the surrendered country has rules they follow and an international community watching.
For crime though, the criminals in the U.S. don’t respect any such boundary as they seek to invade the sovereignty of our lives and communities and country with crime. Yet the same people in the MSM applauding the use of firearms to defend against the Russian invasion would also seek to deny American citizens use of firearms to defend against the crime invasion of the United States by aiding gun-control with their demonizing that firearms use against crime.
If there are 2 military enemy soldiers in front of you shooting at you it can be just as deadly as 2 gang banger criminals in front of you shooting at you. To say that its ok you be armed with an ‘assault rifle’ defending against the 2 military enemy but its not ok to use an ‘assault rifle’ to defend against 2 gang banger criminals – is simply stupid, because its the same potentially deadly encounter just with different people.
And there in lies the irony.
An invasion by other means.
“The killing would (probably) stop (hopefully, at least for the most part) but that’s because the Russian occupying force of the surrendered country has rules they follow and an international community watching”
Oh yeah, that’s for real…
Again, the conservative Republicans ignore the facts of history in order to support their delusional narrative.
That’s a great idea, throw yourself at Putin‘s feet counting on his mercy…
I bet if America was invaded you’d roll over like a little puppy just to save on casualties… And it would all be in vain because Putin doesn’t need any ‘useless eaters’.
Are you a fraud, or something? I am not accustomed to sensible thoughts coming from that screen name.
I’m quoting a statistic so I can appear to be “smart” and look knowledgeable. These “facts” are from the WHO for any Leftist/Communist who would dispute the “truth”. It took me a lifetime of 1 minute to find such “damning statistics”.
“In Japan, suicide (自殺, jisatsu) is considered a major social issue. In 2017, the country had the seventh highest suicide rate in the OECD, at 14.9 per 100,000 persons, and in 2019 the country had the second highest suicide rate among the G7 developed nations.”
“Seventy percent of suicides in Japan are male, and it is the leading cause of death in men aged 20–44.”
All this in a country of “peace and harmony” where there is an effective banning/control on gun ownership. Yes. Japan. One of the most “civilized” countries in the world. Seems suicide is as dangerous as guns – especially if you prostrate yourself to government and corporate control.
Minor MINER49ER Oh Please. The Russians have never followed the rules of war since the inception of the Geneva Conventions. The Russians don’t give a damn about world opinion any more than the Red Chinese, the North Koreans or your beloved Iranians.
I disagree that crime, regardless of the number of home invaders, or overall number of criminals is “war” in the sense that the vast majority of the public recognize, or understand.
If we want to expand public support for individuals being legally armed, we must talk in terms that the audience relate to. Which is why I noted that a test of the theory (criminal attack and war are synonymous, interchangeable) would be to randomly ask people if they consider the two terms as having the same meaning.
Do you believe that the Russians are more “civilized” now than during WWII when looting, vandalism, rapine and murder not only of defeated Germany but of “liberated” countries like Poland was their rule of conduct?
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“Canada and Mexico, severally or individually, are not poised to use their military to invade the US (yet)”
Ah, so we wait for them to invade then obtain guns, ammo and training. Just like wait for my house to catch fire before I drive to Home Depot and get a couple of fire extinguishers.
Got it.
The difference between paranoid and prepared is timing….
“Ah, so we wait for them to invade then obtain guns, ammo and training. Just like wait for my house to catch fire before I drive to Home Depot and get a couple of fire extinguishers.”
Is over-exaggeration a hobby, or character trait?
RIF. Do try to keep up.
A comment was lodged that self-defense with firearms is the same as the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I responded that such conflation was nonsense. Note that nothing I posted deals with RTKBA, prepping for the end of civilization, or proclaiming that personal self-defense against armed criminal is not a proper exercise of the Second Amendment.
My entire comment string is opposing the declaration that armed self-defense related to an armed criminal attack is equivalent to a military invasion of one nation into another. That’s it. That’s the totality. Everything else is grossly tangential, and not germane to the discussion.
In the unfolding of the conversation, it was posed that the narcos below the border are an invading force. My response was that a criminal gang was not the official government, and that neither Mexico, nor Canada were threatening a full-on military invasion of the US. None of which is a discussion of civilian preparedness to defend the US against foreign invasion.
Stick to the point: a military invasion of/by a foreign nation is not equivalent to fighting off a home break-in (self-defense), or defeating bad guys at the Stop-And-Rob (also self-defense).
The message may be being missed by the people running the media, but the message is being received loud and clear by those watching the media.
They can’t stop the signal…
The Times should be writing about how Russia has “legit nukes” and these puny rifles won’t do any good against a nations army.
Or is that only how it works here?
Putin has threatened to use nukes against any country intervening, but he doesn’t dare use them against Ukraine. There would be a palace coup. However, he is bringing in reinforcements, including more T-72 main battle tanks and thermobaric missiles. The use of the latter, a large area “flame thrower” will be quite barbaric, but he has to do something to stem the losses in his ranks.
It wont be the small arms used by the Ukraine as much as a combination of other things taking place on the Russian side of this. This will end with Ukraine being absorbed backed into Russia or by Putin giving up on the effort. Many lives will be lost in the process (on both sides).
“On the contrary, the more Ukrainians are armed right now, the better our people will sleep.”
Here we have the Times pushing right wing talking points.
I will never let any Left winger forget about the Ukraine and civilian gun ownership.
And same for the right wingers too. It was never about hunting or 3 gun. But it has always been about civilian owned rocket launchers and grenades if it comes to that.
The NY Times “assault rifles” aren’t doing anything against a Tank. But civilian owned RPG’s or bazookas will take care of most armored vehicles. And civilian owned flamethrowers are very effective against any modern tank.
“I will never let any Left winger forget about the Ukraine and civilian gun ownership.”
Would “they” care? How many residents of this country even imagine using the US military against any group in the US? And if that idea resonated, why is it none of the pro-2A organizations are making the argument that armed government is likely to turn on the public? (talking about tanks in the streets assaulting civilian groups, not NG standing around a sealed off government building)
Ask Eric Swalwell that question. He’s already gave us the answer months ago. LOL (maybe you forgot that one?)
More likely it will be U.N. troops sent in. U.S. troops will not be trusted to slaughter their fellow Americans wholesale. China is a member of the U.N. Comrade Chairman Xi will probably be happy to provide troops to help his bud China Joe to put down any opposition.
No flame throwers but plenty of (fittingly) molotov cocktails, plus Javelin AT shoulder fired weapons for tanks and stingers for aircraft, with more on the way. They will need them.
Molotov cocktails are not useful against tanks of the last many decades. May be able to fry a BMP/BMP/etc
Too many HAVE forgotten 911. Along with the fact that thousands of lives were takin within a very short period of time without a single shot fired. That the whole thing didn’t even involve guns.
Yeah, they start handing out weapons here, thanks, I have plenty AR and 5.56, hand me one Javelin and two stingers, please.
It’s OK in OTHER countries…just not in the USA.
Granted…it is a war zone over there now.
But…many USA inner cities could be classified the same way at times…so there is that.
“Here we have the Times pushing right wing talking points.”
Nice thought.
There actually is a difference between every day life, and an armed invasion by a foreign military. As a whole, the majority of the US population are likely confident that we will not see armed invasion, so there is no justification for millions of people to go around, crazed with the power of the gun.
Don’t see mush advantage to POTG regarding the fighting in Ukraine.
It is about the ABILITY to fight back if needed dumbass.
“It is about the ABILITY to fight back if needed dumbass.”
Slinging insults is the hallmark of intellectual sloth; echoing the leftist shout down.
To persuade, you have to reach the audience in terms meaningful to the audience. There is absolutely no evidence the general public makes a connection between fighting an invasion and defending one’s life in a criminal attack. If the general public thought of violent criminal attach with a weapon was a “thing”, we wouldn’t have to discuss “stand your ground”.
then don’t spew ignorant dumbass. You’re sounding like a prog.
That’s because you ARE a dumbass.
Clearly, the majority of Ukrainian citizens felt there was no concern of invasion by a murderous foreign dictator, as well! Who *DID* consider such a possibility was our Founding Fathers, which is where we got our Constitution and Bill of Rights, how did we get so much more STUPID in the ensuing 250 years? I believe it took many decades of heavily socialist/communist education monopoly beginning with the WWII generation and escalating ever since. Executing all members of every teachers’ union and teacher’s college should get us moving back in the right direction.
“…how did we get so much more STUPID in the ensuing 250 years?”
Pretty easy to understand. As a people, Americans were about leaving each other alone; no agenda, just a desire to not have interference as a way of life. Seems it was only the last maybe 120 years we began to lose our DNA. The anti-America crowd showed up with an agenda, and a determination.
Faced with a determined agenda, the pro-America elements lacked any sort of real protection, and continued to drift along as not needing to state, and re-state, the “obvious”; leave others alone. Pro-Americans were content to have no real direction, and simply live their lives in peace. The people with the determined agenda were always pushing forward, pushing against traditions and values. The pro-America demographic found it unnecessary still to assert and grow what was “obvious”, and devolved into only relatively weak attempts to defend America.
Now, both major political parties agree the nation must become more leftist, and argue only about the speed.
Thus, the caution, “All that is required for evil to prevail is that good men do nothing.”
The Ukrainian government hands out tens of thousands of AKs to ordinary citizens. What is ignored by American detractors is that Ukraine, like Russia and many other countries, has universal male military service. Almost all physically capable men go from gymnasium (high school) into the army for basic training. Also many women serve. So a considerable portion of the population has had basic training in firearms and following orders. It’s not like the government is handing out machine guns to people who have never touched a gun before.
They are not being handed out willy-nilly. Each person to receive a firearm must pass vetting as a loyal citizen or trustworthy foreign volunteer. When the crisis is over you can bet that the guns will be required to be handed in, by either a victorious Ukrainian or Russian government.
HenryK, And you know that the Ukrainian government vests each and every person it gives a firearm to? How do you know that? Have you been there during this crisis?
It is funny how you Lefties know it all but really know very very little. There is an adage we were taught in Marine Corps Boot Camp. You can’t fix stupid.
“There actually is a difference between every day life, and an armed invasion by a foreign military.”
And therein lies the fundamental error in logic. Self-defense is the same regardless of scale. The People have the right to defend themselves from ALL illegitimate force- individual or organized unjustifiable force.
The power must ALWAYS remain in the hands of The People. Arms are power.
“Self-defense is the same regardless of the scale. ”
RIF.
To at least half the nation, self-defense of person, and defense of nation are entirely different matters. It is this audience to NYT addresses, and the intended audience does not see personal self-defense against criminal attackers as being actual warfare.
My point was/is, armed citizens in Ukraine, fighting an invading military, does not naturally endorse or support armed citizens of the US protecting themselves from criminal attack.
Repeating our own convictions to ourselves is not in the least an effective means of persuading the public. Think about it: there are allegedly over 100 million gun owners. If they were all 2A defenders, we wouldn’t be having these conversations at all.
“Repeating our own convictions to ourselves is not in the least an effective means of persuading the public. Think about it: there are allegedly over 100 million gun owners. If they were all 2A defenders, we wouldn’t be having these conversations at all.”
That’s because most gun owners think it can’t happen here. But it is happening here right now. The United States is being invaded by thousands of military age men crossing our Southern border with Mexico.
It’s an unorganized invasion. With no head leadership. But it is still an invasion nevertheless. Fidel Castro in Cuba emptied his jails and Mental Hospitals. And made sure they all got on boats to travel to the United States, during the Carter Administration.
So crime exploded in Florida a couple of years later. And the end result was that Florida became the first state, to make it easier to get a concealed carry permit.
MS-13 and other gangs are growing with this current invasion.
The “invasion” you describe is not an armed invasion, and it is most assuredly not an unarmed “invasion”. It is merely the result of a legitimate, honest, much needed voter recruitment drive on the part of the Dims, and big business. Think of it as “transformation”, “evolution”, equity.
You got to git chur mind right.
And I’m saying the message is getting through. While many may spend their time “Repeating our own convictions to ourselves”, some of us choose to be more proactive in finding “an effective means of persuading the public.”
This month marks one year that I’ve spent out on a street corner in front of a business speaking truth to people about their anti-2A policy. I have been pleasantly surprised to learn that about 98% of the folks I speak with actually agree with me- they tell me no one has ever taken the time to explain it to them in such simple terms, and they thank me for doing so.
Sometimes we just need to give people a little more credit.
“…they tell me no one has ever taken the time to explain it to them in such simple terms, and they thank me for doing so.”
Gotta admire someone taking their message directly to the public. However…..
While people may appreciate understanding something, is not the mark of success changed behavior. Do you have a mechanism to track that? Thinking people have responded to the connection between violent crime in the neighborhood, but unable to make the connection between armed invasion and self-defense.
I do what I do because it’s the right thing to do. I don’t let the lack of a “tracking mechanism” deter me from speaking truth to people.
Action is more powerful than pessimism.
You smoke too much of this stuff while waiting in line to grab your social security payment.
“You smoke too much of this stuff while waiting in line to grab your social security payment.”
Thank you. It is always a good day when I can maneuver someone into saying really dumb things, if front of God and everyone.
“Repeating our own convictions to ourselves is not in the least an effective means of persuading the public“
But it feels so good!
And continuously reaffirming the delusional doctrine helps keep the drones in line.
Hell, religionistas have been doing it for centuries.
progressives adopted the same strategy. Make a religion out of your belief in .gov and double down on it.
Say it with me now:
Diversity is our strength!
No borders, no wall, no USA at all!
Systemic racism!
My body, my choice! (Except experimental injections, duh)
White privilege!
Toxic masculinity!
And who could ever forget this gem…
BELIEVE ALL WOMEN!!!
(Except Tara Reade. Well, Kamala believed Tara, but didn’t care because power was at stake. Priorities ya know.)
Can I get an amen?
Minor MINER49ER If you don’t want to be able to exercise your right to self defense, that is your problem. But don’t foist your demented dumb ideas on the rest of us who do not want to live in fear.
There is something very wrong with someone who claims to be a man but doesn’t know how to act like one.
Not a cult at all…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcIeNUsyn3o
AK VS RUSSKIE TANK UUUM . WELL AT LEASE CAN TRY , LIVING NEXT DOOR TO PUTIN ON THE PASS SHOULD HAVE BEEN ENOUGH , TO ARM EVERY ONE WITH A SMALL ATOM BOMB .
ONE YEAR TO A THOUSAND YEARS FROM NOW RUSSIA WILL ALWAYS UNDER MINE FREEDOM . THIS WOULD NOT HAPPEN IF tttttRUMP TRAITOR IN WHITE HOUSE , IS A LIE AND FAKE NEWS , ONLY REASON tttRUMP WOULD LICK BUNGHOLE OF PUTIN IS THAT HE THINKS CAN OVER THROW OUR CONSTITUTION AND RULE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA LIKE PUTIN . BOTH ARE BUTTHEADS PIGS . TRATIORS TO FREEMON .
If I ever see one of your all-caps nonsense rants on this blog again I’ll come to where you sleep at night and end your existence. I’ve seen it enough, this is my hill to die on. I know who you are. Do you fücking understand, you retàrd?
Lol. Someone’s been in the sauce. Post again and see what happens, you whelp.
YYOU AALBAY WANT WHOOP SOMBUDY ASS. WL BBRING IT MUFCKR.
was that even english??
ask putin for a better english book!
You know for the longest time I gave you the benefit of the doubt. I thought maybe you were visually impaired or maybe you had a stroke.
But now with your all-cap, stutter-writing, misspelling rants about Trump (which I can’t possibly see how you could have formed any real, fact-based opinion on seeing how you are one strand of DNA away from being fucking turnip), I have concluded that you are a full on retard.
It does amuse me that with all that said – you are still smarter and more well spoken than Dacian.
Everybody laughs at the 2nd Amendment until Russia invades.
‘Everybody wants a 2nd Amendment when the Russians invades.’
F*ck the assault rifle. I want an RPG.
Javelin’s and MBTLAW’s are the way to go.
Again Jethro you show your complete ignorance. In 2014 all the Ukrainians had were RPG’S which bounced off of Russian tanks. This is why Britain was flying in modern anti-tank weapons that were shown on the news. Obviously you like most Hillbillies do not watch much of the daily news updates.
Every post you make proves you to be a clown.
Look at the poster child for mental illness calling someone a clown. I consider it a badge of honor to be insulted by you, dacian the nazi. It proves I’m pissing the fascists off.
And bright boy, who said I wanted an rpg for shooting at tanks? The 2a covers all arms and I just want one for shits and giggles. Ammo would be cheaper than more modern AT weapons.
Wrong again stupid. Don’t you ever get tired of being wrong about everything?
This shows what an RPG made after 1986 (RPG-26 through RPG-32) can do to a modern MBT. Whether they penetrate takes some skill and a little luck and the right range. Under no circumstances will one “bounce off” – they detonate.
Some of us on these very pages have seen what an RPG can do as well.
This is a video of an RPG destroying Russian T-72B yesterday.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1497877975295049735
Jesus, what is that, 100 yards? Didn’t know you could use them that close. But that looks more like a Javelin than an RPG.
Also – That last word you hear the Ukrainian yelling at the burning crew members? That’s the word “suka”. That’s you buddy.
I assumed the “Suka” was some form of “Suck on this…”
dacian the Dunderhead. I have to wonder of an RPG would bounce off your head.
For your edification an RPG can penetrate armor. It depends on the type of round that the RPG fired is.
Before you make a bigger ass of yourself, try learning what you are talking about.
“Action is more powerful than pessimism.”
But only if “action” is effective. And that requires a means of measuring.
I was asking about “tracking” because if you had a method, that tool might be useful for others.
I’m all for useful tools- which tracking mechanism would you suggest an old paraplegic guy sitting in front of a restaurant in his wheelchair speaking to complete strangers should use?
I’ve had folks walk straight in and tell the business that they agree with the guy out front, I’ve been told they’re going to email the corporate office about the discriminatory policy, I’ve handed out many CCW Safe brochures (with verifiable results), I’ve been invited to attend and speak at several local political meetings (and did), and I’ve been interviewed by two local T.V. stations as well as the local paper (none of which published the story… no surprise there).
My email correspondence with the Corporate V.P. of Marketing of the restaurant has not been very fruitful- other than thanking me for being a loyal customer for seven years (pre-policy) and saying he was sorry that I didn’t agree with their policy, the most he did was suggest that if I was uncomfortable dining in… why couldn’t I just order carry-out?
Oh, there was the time an employee came out of the restaurant and accused me of “pointing a gun at her and demanding entry” while I was speaking to two people on the sidewalk. The V.P. responded to my concerned email by stating “none of our employees will bother you again.” So, I guess this could be counted as “measuring”… sorta.
I’ll listen to any suggestions for a reasonable means of measuring the results of my actions.
“I’ll listen to any suggestions for a reasonable means of measuring the results of my actions.”
Given the complications an individual would have tracking contacts and measuring results, it is likely a broader indicator is needed. The number of 2A defenders doing the same as you?
Perhaps even evidence of growing instances of people doing as you is too difficult to track, because other than self-reporting to various blogs there may not be any publicity to attract the usual suspects of the MSM.
Note: asking about effectiveness is not criticism, nor pessimism. It is looking for something to encourage others that the tide is beginning to turn.
Pete, keep on laboring in the vineyard, you’re doing good work.
This one on one contact is the most effective way to change minds. Sure it’s retail not wholesale, but I think it sticks much better than any ad campaign.
A credible metric would be a wonderful tool, but it’s not always available or appropriate.
God save the Ukraine!
When it comes to my freedom, I’m more concerned with the senile old dunce in Washington than the vicious KGB weasel in Moscow.
The Senile old dunce (sock puppet) is not the problem.
The problem is all those people who voted for him with visual evidence he is senile.
The problem is the people who are pulling his strings.
The problem is the people who are using their billions to fund election campaigns to get selected liberals in various offices, such has district attorneys who turn violent criminals free.
The problem is a major media that works as Pravda for democrats spreading their lies.
The problem is a democrat party that adopted the communist agenda decades ago.
The problem is, the list is endless.
When one political party can ignore the Constitution, break numerous laws and there are no repercussions the rule of law is dead and chaos will follow
The T Tag article is as ludicrous as it is insulting to ones intelligence by trying to compare citizens caught up in a real war and the U.S. domestic variant assault rifle used on the streets and in the cities of America to commit mass murder.
Most Ukrainians have admitted they never used a rifle in their lives so they will have little impact on the all out assault by a well equipped, heavily armed and trained Russian Army. In short it will be a mass slaughter only delaying the inevitable.
In the meantime, and way too late probably, Germany finally agreed to help with weapons and the U.S. is also rushing in more weapons but will they even make it into the country with Russia fighting over the airfields. Trucking them in by land takes time which the Ukrainians do not have.
A no fly zone would have been way more effective but the West is reluctant to start WWIII with Russia and Putin is nuts enough to engage in one.
A protracted guerrilla war might have eventually defeated Putin but again no Nato nation is going to let Ukrainian troops on their soil launch such raids back into their country against Putin’s occupation.
The good news is that more Banking sanctions went into effect today which is defiantly going to cripple Russia economically. If Russia continues to lose enough money Putin will be liquidated by the Oligarchs and it cannot come too soon for the world.
The French also seized a Russian ship which had a cargo banned by France. Again more economic warfare to cripple the Russian economy.
China seems to be wavering and they know if they do not support Russian sanctions they too will have sanctions leveled against them and their economy.
All in all we could see a big recession on the way for all of the Industrialized Nations as the result of Putin’s insanity.
You just, continually, need to prove with your idiotic posts that you’re a moron on every subjectt/level. Why is that?
Days late and wrong with everything you spewed. Just STFU and go back to your prog websites little boy.
The first part of what you just said boils down to this. Americans would do better in such a situation because they have more experience with rifles. As opposed to the Ukrainians who have little to no experience of weapons.
At the rate that biden and company are selling firearms there should be an ‘Assault rifle” in every home by this time next year.
Yeah, great, but in Ukraine they’re FREE! And select fire!
Oh dear. Your intelligence and knowledge of guns and foreign affairs has again overwhelmed me with white guilt. I have thrown my 10+ pistols and my 2 home built AR15’s into a nearby lake. I give. You win. Please forgive my ignorance on world affairs. Praise Allah!
It occurs to me since Ukraines pres is a puppet installed by a coup funded by the US and the breakaway regions are apparently awash in neo-nazis wouldn’t Putin effectively be acting like ANTIFA?
Both sides in this war are closer to fascists than anything else. Like the American antifa groups it would be more accurate to call them SS. Socialism/communism was bought out by corporate billioniares and then drowned in a bucket out back. Pure fascism rules the left these days.
@Country Boy
“Ask Eric Swalwell that question. He’s already gave us the answer months ago. LOL (maybe you forgot that one?)”
Yes, he did. However….
Swalwell is not random people in the community. Your question did cause me to reconsider my hypothetical question. Rather, ask 10 random people if they believe the government use military force against the person being questioned: “Are you concerned that your government could one day use military force against you?”
Look at Canada.
“Look at Canada.”
Many harsh lessons there, lately; a template of what is possible. However…..
Still not an armed invasion by a foreign military. The (I mus say) intentional conflating of terms and activities doesn’t make armed military invasion the same as self-defense against an armed criminal, nor is the use of police and military to enforce law the same as an armed invasion (tyrannical government, and a military invasion in another country are not the same; never will be).
We are not talking about RTKBA, but about trying to establish equivalency of self-defense against criminals, with an ongoing military invasion. Why is it necessary to equate the two? What is the political gain expected?
it’s your horse to flog, dead or not.
we can all just let the major media outlets store our icky rifles until we are invaded and actually need them. they will hand them back out as soon as lesotho begins marching. this will instantly create a new category of tools suitable for self defense against those currently amongst us.
Ukraine inherited about 140 SS-19 ICBMs and a few dozen SS-25S with about 2,000 warheads of about half a Megaton yield from the Soviet Union. There was a lot of celebration when Ukraine agreed to dismantle the missiles and warheads. (No one seems to remember that the Kremlin didn’t launch them when the Soviet Union imploded.). Ukraine also had an unknown number of shorter range nuclear missiles plus nuclear artillery warheads.
There is significant evidence that Ukraine might have retained a few nukes just in case. Ukraine builds and sells a ballistic missile that could carry a nuke to Moscow in about three minutes.
Actually they turned the warheads over to the US military who flew then to the US and wedismantled them. In EXCHANGE the US (billybob clinton) and the Russians (joke) guaranteed the safety and security of Ukraine. Hows that working out for the Ukrainians?
Yeah, it would be kinda nice if they kept a few half-megaton heads, but they will not be a deterrent unless the Ukrainians declare their existence.
Elmer Fudd, Let’s see your “evidence”?
“This is the same New York Times that writes so approvingly of “assault weapons” bans here in the US of A.”
The Ukrainian spirit should be a warning to the Leftist in this Country. If they think for even a minute that the owners of 300 million firearms are going to sit around and allow them to do to us what the Russians are doing to the Ukrainians, they are living in a dream world. One big difference between us and the Ukrainians is that we know how to use our weapons and while we don’t have military grade assault rifles, we do have civilian semi-automatics. There are roughly 3 million law enforcement and military in this Country. There are over 150-million-gun owners. Most of those people in law enforcement and the military are not going to engage the American public and a very large percentage of them are not really trained to do that in any event. They want to be able to go home to their families in one piece and when you are outnumbered by a ratio of 50 to 1 you need to think twice. Furthermore, those who think the average American law enforcement or military person is going to use lethal force like artillery, drop bombs, or any kind of weapon of mass destruction against its own people better think again. They are more likely to use it against a Dictatorial Government than law abiding American Citizens and if they do they know they will ultimately pay for it. Just remember people behave differently when their OX is the one getting gored.
“…and while we don’t have military grade assault rifles, we do have civilian semi-automatics…”
My ‘self-put together’ AR’s are much better than anything I was ever issued. Better accuracy is one factor and not having a giggle switch is not.
Heck, I bet there are POTG that have AR’s that put mine to shame. People on this site! “Military grade” is a term that means cheaply made.
You can bet the BIGGEST “lessons learned” is in Tiawan. Was, apparently, considerable “what can we do if Peking invades” among the population. They should now be aware of reality.
I’d hope that Tiawan is starting a mass small arms training program. NOW.
Firearms ownership in Tiawan is far more restrictive that in Ukraine of a week ago. Fix it if you want the US to back/assist you.
“If they think for even a minute that the owners of 300 million firearms are going to sit around and allow them to do to us what the Russians are doing to the Ukrainians, they are living in a dream world.”
Waiting for the govt to start kicking in doors and taking weapons is a welcome distraction for government; magicians call it “misdirection, military call it “diversion”. Covid should tell you all you need to know.
Once a public emergency is declared (such as the trucker protest scheduled for DC), government can declare every vehicle to be possible transport of weapons in support of an illegal parade, allowing stop and search checkpoints wherever LE wants. Civilian asset forfeiture would result in taking any firearms without a specific charge. Govt could declare a national lockdown until the “crisis” ends.
If you think govt is coming for your guns in MRAPs, in full battle gear, you are “underestimating the enemy”, a common but often disastrous presumption.
Actually, it’s 400 million now.
“Actually, it’s 400 million now.”
I used 300mil because it is an unprovable estimate that has established itself for quite some time. 400mil is a newer unprovable estimate that needs to percolate a few more years to be the reference point.
But I don’t have any complaint about people using 400mil. I do caution against using either number as a statement identifying the number of pro-gun/POTG/2A defenders.
If the military is set against the citizenry, as a retired military vet I expect the person who issues that order will die before he finishes the sentence. I never worked for a dictator, I worked for the American people, you tell me to kill them or enslave them, I would have shot you dead on the spot. If I am incorrect, my AR’s first mission will be to gain me a select fire version, and perhaps one for each of my friends, before we even begin collecting tanks and aircraft (I was a pilot, even trained to drop a bomb!). This is not actually a possibility, even a doddering old fool like the faux president would not think it possible.
That would be 400 million now…
“most of them will have had little to no training at all”
Actually, reported (NOT in the MSM) that training with military light arms is standard in Ukranian schools.
to Neiowa the Man who knows as much about Ukraine as he knows about rocket science.
Actual interviews show Ukrainian civilians both male and female receiving rifles and saying they do not even know how they work.
Try again with the falsehoods they all received military training in school.
in russia, rifle shoot you.
@Rusty – Always Carry – Chains
“Yo Sam, you telling me that the Narcos aren’t armed to the teeth?”
As of the moment, the Mexican govt has not officially launched an armed invasion (tanks, aircraft, infantry) akin to what is happening in Ukraine.
No matter, the public here cannot make the mental trip between a situation like Ukraine (war), and individual self-defense. The comparison is nonsense to the average US citizen. That is the total extent of my response to a comment that war and self-defense of the individual are the same. That concept may resonate with POTG, but not the gen-pop.
It is amazing how often people here take a comment, or event, and turn it into something it is not; sorta like gun-grabbers.
The narcos ARE the de facto Mexican government, and they HAVE launched an armed invasion of the US, “official” is an outdated term. I am moving towards the conviction that the solution to our border crisis is going to be a military expedition similar to that into Afghanistan 20 years ago, the situation is almost exactly the same; the government is inoffensive to the US, but completely ineffective in controlling the illegal activities within their countries, and not interested in doing so. Same-same with Mexico, when thousands of illegal immigrants from all over the planet wander unimpeded down to our southern border, our military should cross over in the same spot, shooting every person they see regardless of race, creed, color, age, gender or national origin. If Mexico doesn’t like it, they can take over the job or come on down and get shot themselves. They are universally unwilling to face narco cartels, I don’t think they’ll much like the US Army.
I disagree that Russian invasion of Ukraine is the equivalent of self-defense against an armed criminal (or three, or four, or five…). Sam with the southern border problems. War is war, and personal self-defense is personal.
Why the need to assign equivalency military invasion and personal self-defense? What is the expected gain? How does false equivalency add power to the defense of the Second Amendment? Who is the audience for “equivalency”? How many are there? Can they move the needle on the political stage?
Just a blast from the past:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Committee_for_the_Defense_of_British_Homes#:~:text=The%20American%20Committee%20for%20the,to%20a%20British%20civilian%20body.
@neiowa
“then don’t spew ignorant dumbass. You’re sounding like a prog”
Interesting that someone who is dealing in realism “sounds” like a prog. “Ignorant” (which doesn’t actually mean “stupid”) seems to be assigned to anyone who doesn’t reinforce the echo chamber. If complex thinking is not your cup of tea, just bypass anything containing my “handle”; it’s easy.
For a lesson in history, the Confederacy was full of people so convinced of their natural superiority to people of the North, that they went to war without proper logistics and supply capabilities. They were so certain of their righteous cause, that they precluded putting slavery, and/or secession before the federal courts.
Simply put, a military invasion of the nation is not akin to self-defense against armed criminals; not in the minds that matter (the gun-grabbers and alleged “undecideds”). Facing an armed attack by criminals, you are directly, and inextricably involved. As regards armed invasion, you may not be directly involved, at all (talking about direct assault, here, not the aftermath of losing to an invader).
“The majority of the people do NOT support the influx of illegal immigrants.”
The politicians who permit the open southern border elect themselves into office?
Well, normally I’d agree, but there was the “election” of 2020.
The vast majority of people do NOT support illegal immigration. Most people don’t even support the huge number of legal immigrants that are granted visas to work here so the mega corporations can save money on salaries. Notice what Dems and the media talk about when discussing their open border policy. They NEVER even attempt to make a valid argument for helping America. They make an emotional plea to “help” the immigrants by letting them come here. They occasionally pretend to make a case for unlimited immigration by selectively conflating legal immigration with illegal immigration. MSM consumers are too sucked into the propaganda to know the difference. Then, if you say ANYTHING at all negative about it, they revert to the racist and xenophobic insults designed to shut down the conversation. The commie sheep followers do the same since there is no logical defense of the policy.
Long story short on why people would vote for that (setting aside the fraud/rigging discussion): propaganda and partisanship.
“Long story short on why people would vote for that (setting aside the fraud discussion): propaganda and partisanship.”
Yes, but people who would vote for open borders representatives oppose open borders…sorta. It is interesting that voters swayed by propaganda and partisanship would also declare they want stronger border patrol. Are they not saying, “I believe in stronger border control, but….”?
Yes, they’re essentially saying that. Here’s how it works: when they’re asked the single question about immigration for a poll, they give their answer. When they go to vote, they have to vote out the RACIST, XENOPHOBIC, RUSSIAN PUPPET DICTATOR ORANGE MAN BADDD!!! MAKE IT STOP!!!! Logical thought need not apply.
“Well, normally I’d agree, but there was the “election” of 2020.”
Even that was a result of voters electing officials who would tolerate “rigging” an election. Pogo remains correct, even with the passage of time.
I adduce that most Americans who are watching this event unfold on their televisions (not unlike coverage of other military conflicts in recent decades) are seeing something distinctly different this time. Although they might react differently vocally (if asked publically), on a personal, psychological level they’re seeing civilians being put in untenable situations and they’re thinking to themselves- “Those people look just like me.”
Although these thoughts may border on being subconscious, their significance is the same. When people witness harrowing images of innocents (who look just like them) finding themselves in the lurch- the mind starts to ask itself questions like “What would I do in that situation?”
This is where people get honest with themselves, and where their “politics” get KO’d by the sobering face slap precipitated by the visceral reality of apprehending primal “survival mode”. It is here where the questions of “Am I ready?”, “Do I have what I need?”. “Who can I depend on to help me?”, and many other austere premonitions come to the surface. They may never openly admit to having these thoughts- but they’re happening nonetheless.
The consequent extension of these contemplations is “Am I prepared to protect myself and my family AT ALL?” When you combine what has transpired in our country (and the rest of the world) with the palpable perils everyone has felt over the past couple of years- I have no doubt that people have internally softened their stance on restricting other people’s (hence- their own) ability to defend themselves- especially after realizing that they can no longer count on “someone else” (gov’t) to come to their rescue.
That’s just the way I see it.
“That’s just the way I see it.”
You just nailed “confirmation bias”. POTG/2A defenders likely think the way you described. But, is that how Dims/gun-grabbers/leftists think?
What if Dims/gun-grabbers/leftists think, “Wow, glad I’m not in a country being overrun by Russians”?
What if Dims/gun-grabbers/leftists think, “Ukraine was part of Russia at some point in history, and Russia is justified in taking Ukraine back.”
What if Dims/gun-grabbers/leftists think, “Invasion’s not gonna happen here because we have the most powerful military in the world.”
What if Dims/gun-grabbers/leftists think, “When it comes to crime, police will protect me, or come to rescue me.”
What if Dims/gun-grabbers/leftists think, “The US government cannot ever turn against the public because we have a Constitution that prevents it.”
What if Dims/gun-grabbers/leftists don’t think, “Wow. The invasion of Ukraine means I must re-think my political assumptions, and prepare myself and family to protect themselves.”
What if Dims/gun-grabbers/leftists simply cannot imagine a situation where having a gun for defense is necessary at all?
We are not facing people like ourselves who have simply gone astray. We are facing an opposition refusing to consider anything but their deeply held beliefs. People who, at the core, are terrified that people with legally owned firearms are whackos on the verge of a mass shooting (and likely responsible for all the violent crime in the nation).
@370H55V
“That’s because you ARE a dumbass.”
Feel better? Feel stronger? Feel more righteous?
Saying something more, louder, with greater conviction doesn’t make it so.
Self-defense against a criminal attacker, and invasion of a nation are not the same (unless you are comfortable with a motor scooter being the same as a Countach). Stating they are does not influence those opposed to civilians possessing private firearms for self-defense. So…what’s the point in insisting armed invasion and individual self-defense are the same?
If conflating military invasion and personal self-defense is the best we gots, game over.
Whether it’s personal self defense, repulsing an army, or an illegitimate overbearing government, the 2nd Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear.
Your “we need a better argument than self defense” is just more Fudd stuff. Same regurgitated pap over and over.
“Whether it’s personal self defense, repulsing an army, or an illegitimate overbearing government, the 2nd Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear. ”
Never disputed, never part of the discussion. The issue is “words”. If we want to criticize Dims, gun-grabbers, leftists for making things up, shouldn’t we hold ourselves accountable first? Military invasion and individual self-defense are not the same.
Why aren’t they the same? Granted, the situations might be different, but preserving life and liberty is the goal in both scenarios.
“Why aren’t they the same? ”
Both are armed conflict, but war is war, not an isolated incident. Personal self-defense doesn’t include aerial bombing, tanks, mortars, field artillery, massed troop formations (platoons and upward).
Self-Defense
“The protection of one’s person or property against some injury attempted by another.”
(https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Self-
Defense)
War
Open and declared conflict between the armed forces of two or more states or nations.
(https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/war)
For civilians, they are the same- only the scale is different.
“The politicians who permit the open southern border elect themselves into office?”
If conflating actions of politicians with the desires of the public is the best you gots, game over.
“If conflating actions of politicians with the desires of the public is the best you gots, game over.”
If politicians do not elect themselves, then who does?
If voters elect politicians, then the voters are accepting open borders in order to get other things they want.
Election cheating? Have never seen an accusation that all the voting is fraudulent. So, people who want border control can simply shift their votes to candidates that support border control, can’t they?
“Surveys” indicate the majority of people want border control? And you trust surveys? When people claim in surveys to want tougher border control, are they asked whether they would vote for the party supporting border control, regardless of party affiliation?
People voting against principles to get something they want really is “a thing”.
There is no escape…voters get the government they deserve.
The NYT is fine with arming the populace to carry out violence on those the government disapproves of. That is all. At the moment, with Ukraine, this looks like something sane and moral. The truth is they’d be fine if the government armed people to go round up nazis and white supremacists domestically. Which coincidentally are terms they have leveled at nearly everyone they disapprove of even slightly.
Don’t confuse this with some moral or ethical epiphany.
The state of Wisconsin has more armed citizens than the both armies of the Chinese and Russia combined! That’s just one state! Come and take it!
@tsbhoa.p.jr
“we can all just let the major media outlets store our icky rifles until we are invaded and actually need them.”
How do you perceive an RTKBA discussion from a challenge over declaring military invasion and individual self-defense to be equivalent? Can you find any statement where I mention RTKBA, 2A, constitutionally protected rights?
Or is it simply group think to conclude any comment that doesn’t proclaim, “Muh rahts; muh gun.” is somehow anti-2A?
@HenryK
“More likely it will be U.N. troops sent in.”
That prospect has been raised quite often in the past. But, is it possible?
The US sits on the Security Council, which council must approve use of force. Then we have the question about how a UN military force, large enough for the task, would arrive. How would the cross-ocean deployment of a UN task force be accomplished without being detected?
Have always been interested in analysis of military invasion of the US. To get a respectable invasion force to, much less in, the US would seem to depend upon a political decision to cause the US military and police to stand down, and let the invasion happen.
Where’s the “approving” language? Sounds like they’re just reporting what’s going on.
@Dude
“Logical thought need not apply.”
‘Zackly. Illogic cannot be defeated by piling on more logic. We have to find a way to defeat illogic (emotion), or accept stalemate at best.
Russia was defeated in the Soviet-Afghan War by Mujahideen warriors with only small arms and captured equipment from the Russians. It took them a little over 9 years, but Russia quit and retreated.
Well, this situation is different. In Afghanistan, the biggest problem for the Russians was the rough terrain. This is out in the open streets.
Does The NY Times actually know what an Assault Rifle is, they should, since they spill so much ink talking/writing about the things. Do they know the difference between the common semiautomatic rifle and the assault rifle, again they should. Given the foregoing, how come they keep muddying the waters. Might that be their goal? Sure looks that way. One wonders as to exactly why though.
“Does The NY Times actually know what an Assault Rifle is…?
Indeed, NYT, WaPO, WSJ, leftists, Dems all know what an assault rifle is: anything that looks like a rifle used by the military, in a documentary on war, a Hollywood war movie, video of combat shown on TV.
What is puzzling is the NYT, WaPO, WSJ, leftists, Dems seem reluctant to admit what they recognize as an assault rifle.
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