It’s been alleged that the Islamic shooter at the Orlando massacre had been there several times before. He was likely scouting the place as a target. One of the things he would have noticed: the limited exits. The shooter is said to have entered at the main entrance where the green circle is (above). The blue arrows point to the exits. The heavy black blobs on the outer perimeter of the diagram are the entrances and exits.
The main entrances are down at the bottom of the diagram. The main entrances go into the foyer with the green circle. There’s an exit, separated by a short wall, very close to it on the left. A window is directly below the blue arrow tip. The entrances are to the small foyer, with only one door on the left leading inside.
A shooter located at the bottom center blue arrow commands all exits and entrances. The top blue arrow points to the back exit.
Some customers escaped this way, but that exit was then blocked by a fleeing patron. He feared the shooter would come out and shoot people who were blocked by exiting the alley by a fence.
The blue arrow on the right points to the patio exit. Some escaped out that exit. Those who fled to the bathrooms (left side of the diagram) were trapped, with no way out. Note the extremely short distances. The furthest distance that the shooter could see a patron would have been about 84 ft. Most would have been much closer.
This harrowing account has been given by someone who claimed to be the only survivor from one of the bathrooms. “Norman” related his account to a woman friend. From the nypost.com:
“[Norman] was in a bathroom stall with 30 other people, and those 30 other people are deceased. He is the only one that lived,” she said . . .
“When he laughed, he took his gun and sprayed under the bathroom stall and on top of the bathroom stall, so then the bodies started collapsing and blood was going everywhere in the handicapped stall, 30 people squished in there getting shot,” Ventura said.
“He was laughing like he was making fun of the victims.”
“Then Norman had to climb over the bodies to try to climb on top,” she continued. “He said it was just horrific. While he was getting shot, he felt the shots coming into his skin, he felt the warmth of it and he thought he was going to die.”
If the account is correct, most of the deaths occurred in the bathrooms where people were reportedly held and had nowhere to run. Jamming people into a handicapped stall only made it worse. When you enter a venue, look for the exits and remember where they are. If you have to flee, go to an exit. Don’t get trapped in a dead end.
©2016 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Gun Watch
“but that exit was then blocked by a fleeing patron. He feared the shooter would come out and shoot people who were blocked by exiting the alley by a fence”
Did anyone catch this guy Luis Burbano on Megyn Kelly yesterday? Very strange the way he talked with headphones in his ears and looking at his cellphone off camera, as if he was being told what to say. He was holding the door shut because he was afraid? What? So run away.
This doesn’t all add up at the very least. Why would this guy be holding the door? Why could not people escape over the course of three hours?
It think it’s clear we aren’t getting the whole story here, I don’t know what to make of it, but this story is loaded up with BS.
Yeah, agree. 30 people in a handicapped stall seems like not a very good hiding place. And that would also account for 60% of the dead. Seems like quite a disproportionate number…
Gay bars , movie theaters , malls , schools , churches , office complexes etc.. , all places where there are 10 , 20 , 50 , 100 to 1 , victims to shooter . When will we accept that this is now becoming common place and prepare ourselves mentally , as a free people , for the inevitable , by cohesively strategizing for the ‘ Bum Rush ‘ ?
The fourth plane strategy . If everyone in that club would have bum rushed that twerp as soon as his little finger started twitching , I bet he would have only taken a few hero’s and had his ass thoroughly hammered by the rest .
I don’t blame the victims , but there will come a time when I will , if this keeps going down this way .
I do blame a society however that wants to bury their head in the sand and pretend this won’t happen to them . I blame owners of businesses that refuse to allow patrons and customers to be armed . I blame school officials that declare gun free zones and then put a retired security guard on duty behind a glass door with a 10 round pistol . I blame any public that will today allow the plane they have hired to transport them from one place to another to be hijacked .
Prepare yourself for the ‘ bum rush ‘ , prepare your neighbors , let’s as a society let it be known that if someone tries this shit it our mall , our theater , our club , our where ever , we will ‘ bum rush ‘ their twerpy ass and beat them to death .
When will we , as a whole , prepare ourselves against an enemy that has declared war on our way of life , on our freedoms and our diversity and our goodness , by arming ourselves at all times and be prepared to use deadly force against those enemies of freedom that are stalking us and preparing to mow us down like blades of grass .
I for one refuse to cow down to a threat and I refuse to swallow the narrative that guns , gun availability , gun magazine volume or gun type is our enemy when common sense is still a part of who I am .
The public school system spent years in the ’70s and ’80s. at least, and apparently more recently drilling it into our heads not to resist and that violence in response to violence was wrong. I am still angry with them about this even though I was eventually deprogrammed.
Well said.
You know what else doesn’t add up: “Norman” could hear laughter from the shooter during the attack. In that small, enclosed bathroom, with an unsuppressed AR15 going off just a few feet away, Norman wouldn’t be able to hear much at all after a shot or two.
That’s a pretty good point there LnL.
^ This. I had the exact same thought. He would be temporarily deaf almost immediately.
There is a lot of missing info. How much ammo did he have? Did he use a chest rig to carry his mags? You would need a fair amount to injure 100+. How many rounds did he fire? Why a 3 hour wait to go in? Did he do all the shooting right away and then just chill for 3 hours? My tin foil thinking cap say this dudes a patsy.
I am having a really hard time explaining the three hour “stand-off” as well. I cannot imagine any police agency anywhere in the United States of America having a protocol that directs them to wait for several hours before storming a building when an active shooter is inside and already shot/killed dozens of people.
Everything that we have ever heard is that police are supposed to rush in immediately, even if alone, to confront an active shooter. Why was this case different?
Seriously. Zero hedge has some good articles on the media not reporting eye witness accounts and the possibility of a second shooter. Where is the surveillance footage? video from people’s phones? it all seems fishy to me.
Fleeing patron or accomplice?
I just don’t buy this holding the doors because he was afraid stuff. This is absurd. I must not be understanding this right, he held the doors shut and prevented people from exiting a building where there was a murderous Jihadi inside lighting the place up with an AR? And he did this because he was afraid the Jihadi was going to come rushing outside?
I am supposed to believe this?
That is an accomplice.
He couldn’t run away because there was a walk or fence outside.
They said that the guy holding the door was “stuck in the alley” because a fence prevented he and other patrons from leaving. For what that’s worth. I would jump the fence…. maybe it had barbed wire on top? Either way, these people were gripped by debilitating fear and they obviously weren’t thinking or acting rationally.
I don’t mean this to second guess the victims, and I don’t know what I would have done, but I do know what you should do in this situation: attack. Whether you are in the bathroom of a gay club or a convoy in the sandbox, when you are in an ambush you attack through the ambush. There is nothing else to be done.
I’m not happy that non-heterosexual folks were killed, but I doubt there was a whole lot of natural Testosterone in that club.
Somebody posted last week that in an ambush, doing nothing will get you killed 100% of the time, but attacking into the ambush will get you killed only 99% of the time.
I don’t think the shooter would have been able to gun down multiple attackers. Problem is, the men in there weren’t men. I doubt anybody would have charged.
A friend of mine had been a prison guard, to the contrary he said the gays excellent and dangerous fighters. They would have to be to survive in prison. I would bet that at least a few of the men in that club had done some time for selling club drugs, so I would have expected at least those guys would have known what to do.
I suspect we are talking about two whole different types of folks TTAC. I wish some would have fought back.
Hopefully people understand that “men” (in the sense of people willing to stand up and fight where necessary) could, and often does, include gays, but that the people in this nightclub were not “men” and it wasn’t on account of being gay. Plenty of non “men” out there who are hetero.
It’s too bad the terrorists already got Mark Bingham.
My family teases me about evaluating places I go into.
A lowly keltec .380 would have saved lives
A much maligned Hi-point would have ended the fish shoot…Lorcin,JA,Cobra may not work.
100 G19s woulda done even better
Fish in a barrel in a gun free zone. Big surprise.
Literally. As literally as it gets. He provoked people to run into a room with no exits and literally stack themselves buts-to-nuts as tight as they could.
Like sheep to the slaughter, each had to wait patiently in line for their turn.
..I think I’m going to be sick. They didn’t deserve that.
“Don’t get trapped in a dead end”. Amen to that brother.
30 people can bumrush the shooter. Yes some will still die, but not all 30 !!
Sadly this is merely a thinking exercise in fear and psychology.
“And don’t you ever stand for that sort of thing. Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill ’em right back.”
What is wrong with America…
It doesn’t mater who you are.
Being killed is not something you accept.
Wise words from Mal.
Politely
Waiting to die will get you killed! Trying to kill the shooter may save your life!
All it would have taken is 5.
3 would have likely died but the remaining two could have pounded his head into paste.
Plenty of manpower but nothing to barricade the doors with. Helpless. On a different note I remember reading that after SWAT punched a hole in the wall a dozen or so people ran out followed by the shooter….
“The furthest distance that the shooter could see a patron would have been about 84 ft.”
Cue remarks saying that we only need to practice shooting 7 yd and less because that’s what most “street” encounters entail.
“Most would have been much closer.”
Oh, if only ONE had been armed…two armed defenders almost certainly would have been this attack a short one.
Two people out of 100+…2% or less. That’s all it takes to tip the balance from “outright massacre” to “decent chance.”
Hope you are proud anti’s and statist policy makers…this sort of thing is on you for denying law abiding, free citizens even the right to choose to properly defend themselves.
Somewhere between 5 and 10% of Floridians carry regularly.
Odds are there were 2-3 people in that bathroom whose last thoughts were “I wish I had my gun.”
Were all 30 in the Transgender bathroom (only identified as N or S Bathrooms – no men/women)?
Still too early…..
That’s F’ing ignorant man.
Seriously, why would 30 people be in a handicapped stall? Was the other bathroom also so equipped and were there also 30 there? If not, why would so many be packed in one stall? Did the perp herd them in there? Seems like we are not getting all the information.
If most killed were jammed into the bathrooms, then it really doesn’t matter what weapon he used. He could have lit a can of gasoline and threw it in, blocked the door, and killed everyone inside, rather than everyone inside minus one. He could have done the same damage with a lever-action Henry and a couple of handguns. He could have killed everyone with a single barrel shotgun and an extra 2 minutes. (and he had 3 hours)
The rabid anti-AR-15 thing going on right now is literally insane. (especially since he didn’t use an AR15 but a Sig MCX which is mechanically as different from an AR15 as a CZ-58 rifle is different from an AK-47. There’s some superficial similarities and someone who doesn’t know guns (like every single person calling for a ban on AR-15’s from this) won’t know the difference.
You are just playing a semantics game with the AR/MCX argument. A MCX upper will mount and work on a Mil-Spec lower. But it doesn’t really matter, for the general public, AR-15 is shorthand for any black rifle just like Kleenex is used for any box of thin paper used to blow your nose.
Words have meaning, and if we let the leftists get away with all their deliberate inaccuracies and misleading terminology then we’re giving half the fight up.
This is a sad situation and unfortunately it’s not uncommon for there to be limited exits from any business and the lighting in this place was probably not ideal either.
Definitely! Gun Free zones /No Weapons allowed –Kills !!! Defenseless Sheeple to the Slaughter! The only thing they could do was Facebook, or Twitter about their demise….But, my retired vet dad…God Bless his soul…said why the hell didn’t anyone grab a steak knife, or other long sharp piece of flatware and insert it repeatedly into his neck before they died!? My pappy said it would have been better to die fighting than cowering in a bathroom stall….It may have saved lives with an act of valor….
I’d like clarification on the witness’ statement quoted in italics above: “He took his gun and sprayed under…”
I was under the impression that the shooter used a semi-automatic rifle that is easy to purchase. The witness account makes it sound like full auto.
Have the police released the details about the firearm?
I’m sure that there’s a lot of information local law enforcement (I disregard the FBI, as they are no longer a credible agency in my opinion) is withholding, as so many things about the entire incident simply don’t add up.
However, this spraying thing is very easily explained as the ignorant ramblings of a scared person who has almost certainly never touched a gun in his life and has no concept or understanding of how they work. To him it’s all pretty much the same thing. And for that, you can thank the lying assholes in the ‘progressive’ media for indoctrinating him.
Tom
I think everyone agrees….we would go out fighting, not huddled im a bathroom waiting to die while the government stands outside and talks the terrorist to sleep hoping to push for a bigger casualty count in order to pass laws to restrict the freedoms of We The People.
Also, you just have to wonder what was going through the mind of the guy that blocked one of the only exits from the building. It would be fairly unlikely that the terrorist would have followed them out, and because it is a choke point, they could have dog piled on the terrorist when he exited. I do not like second guessing actions on the scene. I do believe in analyzing these kinds of things, though. My biggest conclusion is this: Ignore the freaking government “experts”. Instead, fight to your last breath. Fight so others may live. Fight for your dignity. Fight to deter the next terrorist. Fight because it is right. Fight because our way of life is worth it.
Veterans: correct me if I’m wrong but a terrorist attack is for all intents and purposes an ambush, which requires surprise, superior firepower, and containment.
Why the f*ck does anybody think you can survive one of these if you can’t immediately address at least one, if not two, of those things?
Tactical thinking, logical thinking, or indeed any “thinking” at all is simply not ALLOWED in Progressive America.
Your invitation to re-education camp will be coming soon in the mail.
I suppose I need to just be happy with the police handling those… whenever they can get there and decide action is necessary.
*sulks off to be “re-educated”*
Thirty people in a single bathroom stall? Is that even possible? I’ve never seen a stall that large.
If it were a handicapped stall, they can turn a wheelchair around in it. Those could fit 30 in, rather snugly.
VERY snugly, or as someone else posited – “buts(sic)-to-nuts.” Even then I’m skeptical. But that’s beside the point. I think we call agree that mental conditioning has played a role here to fatal effect. Sad but true.
Tom
Sacrifice , the word is sacrifice .
This is the single greatest word in the human language . To give without want . To love without prejudice , to accept without judgement . To offer your skills , your strengths , and your everything , for your fellow man . To share what you have worked for or what you have been blessed to possess without expecting anything in return .
The concept of Christianity is based on the word and power of SACRIFICE . The power of God is in sacrifice and it is through His sacrifice that He made for us that we may one day be standing before Him in glory .
It is contrary to our nature to sacrifice our life for another in these situations , yet it is the one thing that would truly bring these tragedies to an end .
My prayers are with the families and loved ones of these victims and in the hope that we will accept as a fact , finally , that there may be a time when WE are called upon to be the final sacrifice for our fellow man . No matter what your faith , sexual orientation , or lifestyle , you are a sinner , as am I , and your SACRIFICE is as honorable as anyone’s when done for defense of your fellow man . God is the judge of the heart and Christ sacrificed His life and spilled His blood for all .
Human nature is working against us in situations like this. Fear turns us into dumb, panicky animals whose only hope is that death will find someone else in the group. Several decades of collectivist propaganda haven’t helped, either.
Run, hide, fight needs to become simply FIGHT. Only then will this kind of slaughter end. The murder attempts won’t end, but the mass casualties will.
It’s a big change in mindset, but I think it can happen. It happened after 9/11 when copycat hijackers got stomped down by half the people on the plane. It happened on 9/11 when passengers on one of the planes decided to take the terrorists out; they lost their lives in the process, but it showed that ordinary people aren’t helpless in the face of evil.
The big question now is whether the progressive/left politimedia complex will succeed in preventing a 9/11 style epiphany; I hope it doesn’t take another tragedy that enormous to break through their wall.
Wapo has better diagrams – https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/orlando-shooting/
I learned a long time ago to not sit in a restaurant with my back to the front door and to not go to sleep in an unfamiliar place without getting familiar with the exits.
I am not one for conspiracy theories but so little of this event adds up that the possibility or likelihood of a second shooter or even false flag event is credible.The way Obama, Hillary, the Democratic Party, RINO’s and the MSM are going after evil black rifles and denying any of the obvious motives is telling. And then I read tonight that the Democratic party’s servers were hacked by Russian operatives looking for information about Trump? On top of the Hillary server scandal? After San Berdoo and now this, in any country where logic or actual common sense were operating, Obama would have been pressured to resign, Hillary would be discredited to the point that she could no longer run for office, and Trump would have been sworn in as Prime Minister by now. I expect that there will be more of these terror events before the election. All at GFZ’s because there has to be a high casualty count. And the MSM will be amazingly unable to connect the dots. I just hope that the people can.
96.5%. It’s not dots they’re failing to connect, it’s a bloody great neon sign.
A woman who was in the hospital gave her account of the shooting. She was in the bathroom. She stated that the shooters gun jammed, and took a long time to get it back going. He dropped bullets on the ground, and fumbled while reloading, and unjamming. Now u tell me, in that instant, which sounded like a couple minutes, would u not bum rush the shit outta his ass. She said he basically had a conversation with the victims as he fixed his weapon! Wtf!!!
Being a victim is learned behavior.
I always check bars, restaurants, movie theaters, stores that I frequent, and hotels for the back door and/or emergency exits – including going out the emergency door after a movie, going out the back door of the bar, walking down to the lobby or back exit of a hotel, just so I know which way to turn for parking lot and my car.
This is just a good habit for being prepared for a fire, earthquake, tornado or power outage, so you can go the other direction from the mob that is jamming up the normal exit, including if the lights are out or smoke is obscuring visibility.
That many people in a small are if perfect for an ambush to the gunman. They should have been able to easily overwhelm him and take him down. But they decided to huddle in a corner and make meek targets.
In such a densely packed, relatively small area, it is somewhat surprising that there have been no stories of anyone attacking the shooter, while he was swapping out magazines?
I think a lot of you have never been to a nightclub. The shooting took place in a dark loud environment where witnesses say they didn’t even know someone was shooting a gun until they saw people dropping. This also took place at 2am right around last call for drinks, I’m sure many people where not exactly sober. If you look at the picture he was at the front door the only other exit being to his right so it would make sense that people would flee in the opposite direction. A witness stated that a black male tried to hold close the bathroom but the gunman shot through the door into the room. To me it seems a little irresponsible to say the people that are dancing and drinking at a club should be armed. I carry pretty much every where I go but a night club where I know I’m going to be drinking and dancing is not one of those places.
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