Monday’s horrific mass murder at a supermarket near Boulder, Colorado has left America stunned. Unlike so many previous mass murders, this incident had an individual live-streaming video of the incident just moments after it began. This public video provides valuable lessons for those seeking to learn from what took place.
It took over four minutes for the first responding officers to reach the King Sooper grocery store near Boulder after a spree killer began his rampage in the parking lot. During that time, the killer hunted people throughout the store.
At the same time, people at the entrance milled around in a state of confusion or ignorance of the imminent, obvious danger lurking within the building.
Reports indicate the killer, armed with a police patrol-type rifle according to some witnesses, wore body armor and had a scanner with which he listened to police radio traffic. At one point, reports say cops moved their traffic to an encrypted radio channel as the killer monitored police communications and laughed at them.
Thanks to a live-streamed YouTube video, we have a timeline for the incident. Frankly, the Boulder PD doesn’t look very impressive in their response to the active shooter call.
Ten minutes in, lots of officers had arrived donning heavy armor and sporting long guns, but only a few officers made entry. The rest remained far away from the entrance while shots rang out inside the store.
Twenty minutes after the initial calls, police used an armored car to bash a hole in the front of the store. However, cops didn’t have the success they hoped for. They still didn’t make entry to neutralize the killer and provide aid to the wounded bleeding out.
Thirty minutes into the incident, police edged closer to the entrance using shields, but still offered no obvious aggressive response to root out the killer.
At forty-five minutes, heavily armed police got on the store’s roof thanks to a fire department ladder truck. Shots can still be heard from inside the store in the video. Meanwhile, innocents wounded inside bled and bled some more.
Finally, at fifty-seven minutes, cops perp-walked the handcuffed suspect out of the building.
We really don’t know how much longer it took before paramedics were permitted to enter to render aid to the injured.
The bottom line: The video showed a great deal of confusion in the initial moments of the attack. Especially with oblivious or stunned people loitering near the entrance of the store.
One thing remains certain: if you find yourself in a horrific situation like this, it’s a poor time to fire up your phone and live-stream what’s happening. And unless you chose to engage the killer, you probably should keep your gun holstered so as not to be confused with the murderer(s).
With the gun out, not only do you have to worry about the shooter(s), but also fellow CCWers who might mistake you for the bad guy, along with responding police officers. At the same time, if someone had shot this crazed killer early in his rampage, fewer people would have been killed or wounded.
If you don’t need to be shooting, you can still save lives by helping the injured. Applying some basic knowledge of how to care for gunshot wounds or other serious injuries until professional EMTs arrive on scene can save lives, too. If you haven’t received any training, Stop the Bleed seminars are excellent and offered nationwide.
Once again, caring for the wounded should take precedence over live-streaming and internet fame.
We’ll say it again: the only thing that stops rampaging lunatics with evil in their hearts is one or more good guys with guns.
While we know this, others in Washington and in many states will no doubt use this tragedy to launch a new push to ban America’s favorite rifle. Bank on it, folks. Gun control is coming.
Meanwhile, until and unless they ban your preferred daily carry, (legally) pack your gun every day even when you don’t think you’ll need it. With decent situational awareness and some fundamental tactics, your sidearm will make you a lot harder to kill while allowing you to protect and defend innocent life.
This post had mentioned online reports of a possible concealed carrier who was in the store at the time of the shooting. Those reports could not be verified and this post has been updated to remove those references.
Thank you for emphasizing the Stop The Bleeding training. Providing care to the injured is absolutely great advice. One additional thing that must be considered; don’t become a casualty while trying to render aid. Ensure the scene is secure and safe before aiding another, lest you become an additional victim.
If possible, neutralize the threat first. Then provide trauma care.
“Good medicine is bad tactics.”
The reverse is also true.
I’ve taken Stop the Bleed – it’s a great program.
Wonder how many of the dead willingly chose NOT to exercise their natural and inherent right to armed self-defense.
Gun free zone based on video of the “no firearms” sign on the supermarket door.
Do “no firearms” signs carry the weight of law in Colorado?
According to the handgunlaw.us website, No Guns signs do not have the force of law except within the city of Aurora. Since this incident occurred in Boulder, it would be legal to carry within the store. Just keep it properly concealed.
What the law says is neither here nor there when Gun Free Zone Signs are a criminal magnet and something defenseless slaves trust and comply with.
The only places that the sign can actually carry the weight of law are in Broomfield and Denver, which have fully accepted both the costs and the benefits of Home Rule. Broomfield never makes the news about this because they don’t use Home Rule to screw with people, rather they use it to deal with property taxes, public utilities and other services because the City/County of Broomfield have some oddball edges to them. So they put the arguments about “who’s responsibility this little area is” to bed with Home Rule.
Aurora has such a law and touts it often, it’s unenforceable due to state preemption which states that GFZs are only enforceable with the use of a security checkpoint that employs magnetometers.
For a long time Aurora also had a much touted AWB which they similarly didn’t enforce for the same reason; they couldn’t. You could walk into the Gander Mountain (back when that was a thing) in Central Aurora, or any gun shop, and half a dozen other sporting goods stores and buy any basically any MSR you wanted.
Aurora might be the most mismanaged city in the state. It certainly has one of the worse police forces from a citizen’s point of view and it has the lowest officer morale too. People start at APD with the idea of moving to another, better, agency within two years. Because of that APD is staffed almost exclusively with shitbirds.
King Soopers and the parent company Kroger have a No Open Carry policy put in place 2 or 3 years ago. Walmart has done the same. Concealed Carry is still permissable where state law allows. Boulder County is notorious for being difficult to obtain a CC permit (most of Denver and the surrounding communities like Boulder are).
Colorado’s turning into Commierado. Those of us living in the more rural areas have no voice anymore.
Stop The Bleed has almost completely shut down due the Covid19 fear factor.
I took a Civilian Trauma class a couple of years ago from SRT Training in Kansas City, Kansas.
You have to hunt for a class.
https://cms.bleedingcontrol.org/class/search
I’d carry if I could afford a gun.
The shooter is a MUSLIM!
Gun grabbers always say we shouldn’t judge a religion based upon the acts of a terrorist, but we should judge gun owners by the actions of a criminal (or a criminal terrorist!)
You hit the nail on the head Amen brother
Supposedly.
But if true they’ve did this before.
What better way to disarm America then have Our own government do it for them.
^ This! ^
A Syrian immigrant with probable ISIS connections and a Trump-hating devotee of the WaPo.
While liberals were tweeting, “I’ll bet my salary it’s a MAGA hat-wearing Trump supporter!”
One can only hope someone took them up on the bet.
I knew the trump haters would be out in full force
Good adivice.
Cant bring myself to watch another one, anyone know if the POS was actually allowed to possess a gun or be in the company of normal people for that matter? Another example of “let’s violate millions of law abider’s rights instead of possibly facing backlash over one a-hole who shouldve been in a cage”!
Hey! I know! Let’s force people of radically different cultures to live cheek-by-jowl, cause an economic depression because of a fake virus, have the government invade the home countries of some of these people, foment hatred and division using social media, and let’s see what happens!
Socialist paradise!
A good guy with a gun will save people’s lives where more gun control won’t. If there really was an armed citizen in the store who was prepared to fight back this will stand as the absolute best argument against hysterical do-something-now demands for gun control.
I’ve certainly got my fingers crossed. However if its true we probably wont hear much about it.
It looks like there aren’t enough good guys with guns in Boulder, Colorado…
Check the map of defensive gun uses by the Heritage Foundation https://www.heritage.org/data-visualizations/firearms/defensive-gun-uses-in-the-us/
I encourage everyone to call you senators and vote no on the hr1 bill
Ahmad Al-Issa doesn’t sound like the name of a Deplorable White Supremacist (if there is such a thing – most so-called “white supremacists” are probably undercover FBI agents).
Not so fast, we still don’t know if they spelled his name forwards or backwards.
Well, it ain’t Bubba…
Assi La Damha actually sounds pretty cool as a name. But he probably isn’t a deplorable white supremacist, either.
And…. Youtube removed the video…
TTAG’s code isn’t letting me post the link, but LiveLeak has the video…
How long before we find out that this guy was not supposed to have guns? Many of these people want their 15 min of infamy and were somehow able to get a firearm, even when their name was in a “no sell” data base.
criminals don’t follow the rules they don’t care about the laws they need to do something to quit letting these people out of jail and prison maybe even give them the death sentence this would stop a lot of this
@john boch
All good points.
Also: strange that these nut jobs come out of the word work every time there is any pro or anti gun legislation on the docket!
This is the second article where you’ve made definitive statements similar to gun control is coming”. I completely agree that they are trying, and I’m terrified that there is actually a chance this gets pushed through. But I’ve also heard there is an uphill battle to make it pass. Are there rumors that the republicans are going to layover and “compromise” similar to what was said before the bump stock fiasco?
Also: we NEED the full story on the ccw carrier!
Can Republicans in the Senate would have to flip to their side to get this stuff passed
10 Republicans in the Senate would have to flip to their side to get this stuff passed
“the Boulder PD doesn’t look very impressive in their response to the active shooter call.”
I beg to differ. By the OP’s own admission in the second paragraph: “It took over four minutes for the first responding officers to reach the King Sooper grocery store near Boulder after a spree killer began his rampage in the parking lot.” I take “over four minutes” to mean LESS THAN 5 minutes!
The Boulder incident is proof positive of the adage:
‘When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!’
What MORE could the UNARMED citizen possibly hope for than a 4 – 5 minute response time for a good guy with a gun to appear?
The perpetrator in this instance was wearing a BULLET PROOF VEST! Only police with PATROL rifles (NOT assault weapons) could out-gun this attacker. What could a few concealed carriers accomplish with JUST HANDGUNS? Keep the perp entertained while waiting 45 minutes for the SWAT team to muster and formulate a counter-attack plan. Would that have been enough to make any difference?
Just 10 people killed in withering gunfire for an hour or so. Clearly what we need are brave unarmed corpsmen willing to attend to the wounded in such an emergency.
Are we analyzing this case correctly? Or not.
I think the “less than impressive” part was the fumbling about outside for an hour before figuring out how to go in. Doesn’t matter how quickly they got there if it takes them a full hour to do something useful after they roll up.
I’m guessing your post is sarcasm because that’s the only way it makes sense.
Bad guy with semiautomatic rifle and body armor in no way equals invincible. In a close quarters gun battle being armed with a handgun is definitely an advantage. A rifle would be better but a handgun is still more than capable of ending a fight. It’s definitely a situation where having an accurate pistol, an accurate shooter and a good dose of good luck are necessary but it’s far from a lost cause. If anything it’s an argument to carry an AR pistol in a backpack.
BeoBear,
I second your sentiment.
1) If you shoot your attacker “center mass” and that does not immediately end the threat, next-level training teaches you to immediately transition to head shots and/or pelvis shots. Why? Only one in 100 million (or thereabouts) attackers will be wearing ballistic vests AND ballistic helmets AND ballistic panels covering their entire pelvis and groin.
2) When you are only armed with a handgun facing an attacker with a rifle, your preferred tactic is to close the distance as rapidly as possible without taking any hits from your attacker. That could mean sneaking up on your attacker from distance (cover/concealment hopping), rushing your attacker in plain view from a very short distance (say 30 feet), or lying in wait for your attacker to wander by and engaging from contact distance.
A defender who employs those two simple strategies has a decent chance of prevailing.
And remember these two monumentally important aspects of simple human psychology as well:
1) An attacker — especially a spree killer — is not expecting an armed defender to rush him/her. An armed defender rushing the spree killer could very well trigger a retreat or surrender response in the spree killer. (Statistics are that something like 80% of spree killers immediately surrender or kill themselves at the mere sight of an armed defender engaging him/her.)
2) An attacker — especially a spree killer — will be unlikely to calmly stand still and place carefully aimed shots at an armed defender who is rushing and shooting at the spree killer, especially if the armed defender manages to get some hits on the spree killer. At the very least, the spree killer is almost guaranteed to flinch/jerk and at best will attempt to move to cover or concealment. That means the spree killer is NOT placing carefully aimed shots at the armed defender, nor any other potential victims.
3) If an armed defender scores hits on a spree killer — even a spree killer with a ballistic vest — those hits still hurt like a son-of-a-bitch and could very well cause the spree killer to immediately surrender or escape. (The spree killer would want to prevent more painful hits and may very well wonder if the ballistic vest failed to stop the bullets.) At the very least, the pain of those hits will cause the spree killer to jerk in pain and he/she will NOT be sending accurate shots at his/her intended victims.
Actually, my preference is to throw/launch or roll a frag at the shooter and then go have lunch while ServePro cleans up.
It has however been brought to my attention that “my preferences do not line up with reality”. Shocking, I know, that those ATF bigots would disrespect my feelz, but “transitioning” to explosive EDC is apparently not acceptable, even in these progessive days.
#ThinkProgess #EEDC
strych9,
You, sir, win the Intertubez for most enjoyable comment of the day!
As the saying goes, “Close is all you need to win horseshoes and hand grenades!”
Necks, thighs, femoral artery, knees. Big muslim with bloody right leg on walk out. Still walking. Incoming rounds still work to thwart more shoppers hit. A well placed head shot with a can of corn works well. Red flag laws are already in place in CO. His own family said he had mental “issues”. What did the FBI know and when?
How long did it take the police to confront the shooter? Just because they got “on site” doesn’t mean they were doing anything to stop it.
Sounds like the coward of Broward all over again. We pay career LE, firefighters, EMTS and soldiers a good salary and pension with the understanding they just might have to make the ultimate sacrifice. The closer these career heroes get to retirement, the more cautious they become.
This is a job I would never sign up to do, but once they choose that career, they are on the hook as long as they are on duty. They are free to quit, but if it comes down to duty and they fail, they should be let go and lose any pension or benefits.
We need to enforce the 2016 Trump campaign’s idea of a Muslim ban.
He didn’t do anything, which is why he lost.
The shooter is a Muslim. The USA is a Christian country. Non-Christians don’t belong here.
So no Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, etc etc either, huh? Pull down your shirt, your intolerance is showing. The intolerance of the Left is bad enough without you adding fuel to the flames. I assume you know that the number of Muslim extremists in proportion to peaceful Muslims is probably similar to the number of mass killers compared to gun owners in this country.
How does having Buddhists, Hindus, and atheists/agnostics etc. here benefit the country?
How does hosting the group you left out benefit any country?
Mark N.,
“… the number of Muslim extremists in proportion to peaceful Muslims …”
You have to be extremely careful with that line of thinking. Someone surveyed thousands of Muslims all over the world and, while most of them are not eager to murder infidels, an astonishing and incredibly alarming percentage of Muslims support fellow Muslim who murder infidels. I do not recall the exact number — I want to say it was in excess of 65% or something like that.
When you have a giant percentage of a religion support murdering people who are not members of that religion for no other reason than being infidels, that is a ginormous burgeoning problem.
There’s that old question of if you had a time machine would you go back and kill Hitler.
Fuck Hitler, I’d go back and schwack Ibn al-Ghazali.
I’d go for Karl Marx, but that’s a solid choice, too.
I’m Christian and…
You’re a fucking idiot!
Racist Bitch! Forgive me Lord!…
The atheists and the muslims have formed an alliance. Against christians.
Not me, I think those Muslims are as delusional as the Christians are as delusional as the Mormons are as delusional as the Hindus are as delusional as the…
Well, at least you are consistent Miner49er. I’ll give you style points for that.
You forgot to say the Jews are delusional. Or are you afraid of saying that too???
Over the many years I have noticed that the atheists never criticize Judaism??? They never criticize the Jews???
American atheists are just like their muslim allies. Both destroy art work, statues, Museums, and both burn books.
Both hate the 1st amendment.
When it comes to religious beliefs, yes especially the orthodox Jews are delusional. And including them, most fundamental religions who hate women, or homosexuals, etc. mix hate in with their delusion.
I freely invite any religious devotee to provide credible evidence for the existence of their God or gods.
I’m willing to objectively examine the proffered evidence and form a conclusion, if possible.
Sadly, no one has ever presented solid evidence for the existence of their deity.
In fact, there is much more evidence to support the idea of alien abductions, there are literally hundreds of living eyewitnesses who give testimony about their experiences.
I’d like to see just one miracle from any of the worlds religions or a credible eyewitness account of such a miracle.
We have freedom of religion here in the US and freedom of no religion, if that is what we choose. The American natives had their own beliefs. We have people of every religion in the world here and they are free to worship as they wish, but not free to break the laws of our state or federal government.
Shooter was wearing a vest. Everyone wanna tell me how 5.7 is stupid again? Yes you can get the hot ammo.
Which is why when you see this you aim for the face. That’s why we practice marksmanship.
Aim for the groin.
The genitals are usually to small a target for there to be a reasonable hour probability. However; there is a high probability of breaking the pelvis, thigh bones or spine, not to mention femoral arteries and nerves.
Of course just about any load from a 12 gauge shotgun to the groin will almost instantly shit down any attacker with an extremely high hit probability.
A hit to the groin is definitely going to shit down the attacker!
The video is still on you tube, over 3 hours of it. We certainly have some issues with handling these incidents. That seems to be quite apparent after watching over 30 minutes of this. Good thing someone didn’t decide to rob some banks or carry out some other heinous crimes on the far side of town . . . as there were dozens and dozens of officers from all flavors of law enforcement here. Hopefully they will discover what the weapon used was, and if the other suspect actually stopped the incident from further damage?
It appears the Columbine response has been made official. Take your time boys – hoe much ammo could he have?
“Police on Tuesday identified a 21-year-old man as the suspect who opened fire inside a crowded Colorado supermarket, and court documents showed that he purchased an assault rifle less than a week before the attack that killed 10 people, including a police officer.
Supermarket employees told investigators that Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa shot an elderly man multiple times Monday outside the Boulder grocery store before going inside, according to the documents. Another person was found shot in a vehicle next to a car registered to suspect’s brother.“
You know how to copy & paste, good for you
HEH HEH HEH!!! :0)
Look at his post below, he’s doing it again.
Holy shit the police response. “Come out with your hands up…this is the Boulder Police Department.” I use more animation and will in my tone when I’m asking my dog to sit. Meanwhile 40 of them are milling about outside as if they are waiting for a boring press announcement or something.
If I had a loved one who was in that store during this thing, I would be all over the airwaves about the Boulder PD’s absolutely ineffectual and FAILING performance in the one situation where they’re needed most.
Stephanie,
The law enforcement response in Boulder was quite typical and predictable. Police did the same thing at the Pulse nightclub attack in Orlando, Florida a few years back. Although in that case it took police substantially longer to finally “go in” — three hours after the attack started — whereas police in Boulder “went in” about 45 minutes after the attack started.
We can only wonder/imagine how many injured victims would have survived had they received emergency medical trauma care within five minutes of receiving their wounds rather than 55 minutes as was the case in Boulder, Colorado (or within three hours in Orlando, Florida back in 2016).
Events such as these underscore the fact that we are effectively on our own. We would be wise to plan accordingly.
“The weapon used in the attack was an AR-15-style pistol modified with an arm brace, according to the source.“
Hopefully, in Oklahoma, a similar, “would-be” shooter would realize that of the 50 or so CCW shoppers in a store at any given time, at least 20 of them would return fire within seconds. At least a few of those hundreds of bullets would get around or through the body armor. Where CCW is encouraged instead of banned or limited, shooters with long guns and body armor might not even make it in the store.
“Bulletproof vest” is a misnomer, anyway. Kevlar and other “soft” ballistic armor panels arrest enough bullet momentum to prevent penetration (up the caliber they’re rated for) but a shot to your center mass can still take the wind out of you and leave a nasty bruise. A blow to the general area of the liver can even bring you to your knees and disable you for several minutes (anyone who follows combat sports like kickboxing or MMA has probably seen a “liver knockout”).
I pray that you are correct about Oklahoma.
I’m in Colorado and the response was horrible.
Boulder Colorado, One in a hundred chance of
someone being able to defend themselves let alone others.
I carry a gun where ever I go. I’m never unarmed. But I will add a stop the bleed kit to my EDC.
Was this a hate crime?
45 minutes until the police actually entered, even when they heard shots fired and were wearing “heavy body armor”? Where did they train, Broward county?
Thanks to Matt Bevin. The proud christian ky govenor who signed constitutional carry into law. And the atheist still hated him. They were glad when he lost reelection. To be replaced by an anti christian govenor who told worshipers to not attend easter church service. He ordered state police to ticket church goers. Who went to church any way.
The Libertarians are worthless when it comes to defending Liberty. And I’m not the only person saying it. Libertarians are saying it as well.
Tyrants podcast 41 minutes long
https://deathtotyrants.libsyn.com/ep-146-radicalizing-the-message-with-angela-mcardle
Active shooter training teaches that in an active shooter scenario, once 2 or more officers are on the scene, a team is formed, and entry is made, to prevent the “hunter-killer” incidents like Broward-coward school shooting that directly led to more deaths due to inaction by police. Unfortunately, aggressive oficers who can handle this type of thing, are weeded out in modern departments, and the video shows the results!
If you take shooters feet out you will more than likely end the fight. Any hit from hips down is going to cause major pain.
It will be interesting to compare and contrast the initial and continuing coverage of this incident versus the one in Georgia.
I always marvel at how the press switches directions so quickly when then facts do not fit their narrative. I wonder how many times this shooter’s ethnicity, religion and social media posts will get mentioned. Especially on sites like NPR
and CNN.
Anyways, if you choose to engage the bad guy, if you can; shoot from cover ( not concealment ) , watch your backstop , watch you flanks ( there may be more than one ) and keep shooting what ever body part he gives you until you get the desired effect.
Obviously the “T” zone in the cranium or the “10 ring” is best but 10 rounds in the “1” area will certainly cause him to reconsider. This will alert those around you that something isn’t right.
Just remember that you will have to explain your actions in open court and to a jury of your peers.
“may” have to explain your actions.
Comments are closed.