I ate in a Hazelton, PA diner the other night. Fresh out of my debate with Dr. Romano at Penn State (a gun-free zone) I was as unarmed as the Venus De Milo. I passed on a place in the main dining room for a seat at the bar. It offered excellent sight lines and easy access to two nearby exits. It occurred to me that I was better off unarmed in that seat than I would have been being armed in the boxed-in booth by the door. All things being equal. Something for you guys who can’t carry at work to keep in mind. So here are my choices for a firearm to defend against extreme workplace violence . . .
1. Anything
To paraphrase Bachman Turner Overdrive (with a touch of Tarzan), any gun is good gun.
If operational security or a dress code limits your choices to a mouse gun, you’ll just have to squeak by. Your LGS sells plenty of excellent palm-sized nines (e.g. Ruger LC9,) and refined .380’s (e.g., SIG SAUER P238). An ankle-holstered snubbie may be a bit awkward standing up, but it’s an excellent set-up for sedentary cubicle dwellers.
Practicing with a small gun is almost as painful as a five-year-old’s knock-knock joke—unless you’re refining your ability to extract, aim, move and shoot the firearm in the comfort of your own home (with the curtains drawn). After the gun’s been unloaded, separated from all ammo and triple safety checked. Yeah, do that.
If your gun choices aren’t terribly limited size-wise, as always, carry the largest gun in the largest caliber that you can comfortably carry and unholster and shoot accurately, rapidly, under pressure. To establish which gun meets those criteria, you’ll need plenty of dry and live-fire practice.
Oh, and despite what the antis say about friendlies shooting friendlies, the more people who carry a gun—any gun—in your work environment the better. (Except for the guy who goes postal of course.) It’s better to take some of your colleagues to the range and discuss tactics than it is to obsess about your firearm choice.
2. Springfield XD(M) (9mm)
Out and about, it’s the three-three-three rule. Three yards, three seconds, three shots. There’s a flurry of firearms frenzy followed by . . . bleeding. While the rabbi likes to remind us that no one ever ended a gunfight wishing they had less bullets, cartridge capacity isn’t the be-all, end-all in most defensive gun uses.
A workplace shooting is a bit more of a challenge, tactically speaking. In the Navy Yard massacre, Aaron Alexis shot his victims from various distances; some were gunned down at point-blank range, some were killed from a fair distance (down a long corridor). The entire event lasted somewhere between 30 minutes and an hour.
An armed defender would have been happy to have a gun that could have taken out Alexis at, say, 30 yards. As the killer was after multiple targets, most of whom were trying to escape, a firearm with sufficient capacity to lay down something approximating covering fire wouldn’t have gone amiss. That capacity would have helped generally; a spree killer had nowhere to go. He didn’t mind engaging in an extended gun fight.
The 4.5″ Springfield XD(m) in 9mm is a ridiculous easy gun to shoot accurately. It’s 19+1 capacity comes from the land of plenty (an extra mag or two in a desk drawer is no great bother). It’s not the easiest gun in the world to conceal, what with that honking great handle, but then who said this was going to be easy?
3. Stoeger Coach Gun
I know what you’re thinking: two shots? Here’s this guy prattling on about mag capacity and he goes and recommends a shotgun with two shots? Here’s the thing . . .
Most people can’t hide a full-size tactical shotgun in their office. If discovered . . . “Explain to us again how you aren’t the crazed gunman?” The Stoeger Coach Gun (SCG) is small enough to stash in a backpack; it breaks down and reassembles lickety-split. Sure, it’s not the easiest procedure when you’re experiencing a full adrenalin dump, but there it is.
Like any 12-gauge (also available in 20) shotgun, the SCG fires a fearsome load. Twice. Yes, well, about that . . .
A shotgun loaded with double-ought buck is as close as you’re going to get to one-shot stopping power. So . . . two one-shot stops. And while more is better when it comes to suppressive fire, a deafening concussive blast from a shotgun at close range offers Gulf War levels of shock and awe. On a small scale. In theory.
Speaking of small, a Stoeger Coach Gun is significantly easier to maneuver in the tight spaces of an office than a full-size shotgun. Remember: in a workplace-related shooting you should be running and gunning (with the emphasis on running). Or hiding and waiting. Imagine the difference between hiding under a desk unarmed and hiding under a desk with Joe Biden’s preferred defensive firearm.
Ideally, you’d have both a carry gun and the Stoeger at work. But then few of us live—or work—in an ideal world. Do the best you can with what you have and try to work at a place where the boss is into ballistics.
LMAO at the Coach gun. I like it! Unfortunately, I work on a University Campus.
Well, I think many office-like environments aren’t all that great when it comes to armed defense. There’s a shooter on your floor and you sit behind cover with a colleague and decide to whip out the old pocket rocket. Will we need to keep an eye on the colleague? Is he/she now convinced you’re part of the conspiracy. Keep in mind that everything’s blurry, there’s a ton of adrenaline, emotion and loads of stress, so it might be one of these cases where you’re happy your boss records video 24/7, enabling you to prove your innocence later. Of course you’ll be made to leave in the mean time due to XYZ-BS reason.
I think these armed shooter situations aren’t just ‘the crowd’ versus ‘the shooter’, once someone (not LE) steps in armed to return fire. Situations are complex and I think one needs to be able to evaluate quickly whether presenting your good guy firearm will not result in a worse situation.
At Va Tech, they guy rampaged for 3 hours. As a professor, I would rather be pro-active than take a bullet in the head by the perp. All good guys have to evaluate the situation, otherwise, leo would just shoot everyone on sight.
If someone can break down a pump shotgun and get it into the Navy Yard in a gym bag I think you should be able to get a coach gun into work under a few pieces of smelly workout gear and stash it under your desk. One must always weigh the odds, however: chance of getting fired vs chance of workplace violence requiring firing your gun. (Colonel Parker, “Hawkeye, fire your gun, that’s an order!” Hawkeye to gun, “You’re FIRED!”)
Depending on risk of job termination I think I might consider a little J Frame in the gym bag or some small semi-auto .380 instead. You also have to keep in mind those 12 gauge rounds penetrating office or cubicle walls.
PS90 concealed in a gym/tennis bag. If anyone asks, you’re going to work out after work. It is ridiculously compact, ingenously built, and if the first bullet doesn’t do the job, the other 49 will.
If a compact scattergun is where it’s at, then why not the Kel-Tec KSG? oh wait….vaporware.
Tom
Vaporware? My local gun store usually has at least two in stock at all times.
Because we want guns to be reliable. The ksg…..isn’t.
Well if you stick with what Robert said about only needing 2 shots, if you have one in the pipe and another one goes off then you are in the same position as you would be with the JB special. You just added a lot of unnecessary weight.
I’ve got a couple of hundred rounds through my KSG without any problems. I’m also a FFL with a shop and have sold more than a few without any complaints. 90% of KSG failures are simple user error…its very easy to short stroke ’till you get used to it.
I also have a PMR 30 and a SU-16c that run like champs….and even a PF-9 with at least 500 rounds through it I use as a carry if I think im gonna get caught in the rain on my softail. So much for that ” kel-tec guns are junk” theory. (Limp wristers and short strokers need not apply.)
Penn State is not a gun free zone. 18 Pa.C.S. 912 does not apply to colleges. You can be asked to leave if the gun is spotted (and arrested if you refuse to do so), and students caught with firearms can be expelled, but there’s nothing illegal about carrying a firearm there.
Source: I’m a Pa. lawyer.
Florida Universities ARE “gun free zones.” Florida 790.06. Most college campuses in the U.S. are that way. It is easier to list the ones than aren’t.
Source: I am a tenured Professor in S.U.S. of Florida.
Blue: Yeah, I know. But wasn’t RF in PA, not FL?
I never did see the post from the guy about Penn State. Did it get deleted?
@Blue: This string starting with John A. Smith is the only place I’ve seen Penn State mentioned, except in the actual post.
Agree, I teach criminology at PSU branch campuses and there is no prohibition, nor are there in restaraunts unless posted my ownership.
How is “extreme workplace violence” perpetrated? With a gun, so the answer is to take another gun to combat a very rare occurrence?
I feel sorry for the author who has to mentally take note of exit places and sight lines. When I go out for lunch with colleagues I just think about what I want to eat and the conversation.
Situational awareness is your first line of defense from most bad things happening, the author’s observations are great and no different than looking up and down a dark alley at night, or sitting facing the door in most locations. Both of those examples are very common advice for safety minded folks. As far as bringing a gun to a gun fight, why yes, I think I will. It certainly beats the hell out of cowering defenselessly in a corner waiting for a phsyco send me to the great bright north!
Its always good to make note of any exits where ever you are. Mass shootings may not happen every day, but do you know what does? Fires. When traveling by air do you ignore the pre-flight safety speech and focus instead on when the refreshment cart will be making its rounds? Situational awareness can only benefit the odds of surviving any tragedy and it reduces the odds of a mishap becoming tragic. This is true for all people, whether or not they decide that guns are ‘icky-scary’. Preparation is often confused with paranoia through the eyes of someone such as yourself.
Situational awareness includes such things as looking at the traffic and where you are going, instead of staring with zombie fixidity at your smartphone screen while you cross the road. I have seen most young people do this and I always feel like accelerating. Keeping personal space while moving around, being aware of sight lines being blocked, tunnels, the behaviour of people all around you, checking reflections for people following you, people approaching with hands concealed. The usual stuff. Enjoy the blue sky, the little flowers if you will, but be aware that there are dangers in this world, and if you can see them before they fix on you, you will be less likely to wind up under their hands. There is always a certain group who would rather steal from you than work for a living.
its not a killing spree you usually gotta worry about, as far as looking for exits, you’ll be the one panicking not the guy that knows where he will have to go
To Mike: That is called “Condition White” and you are free to live your life in that manner. Others choose not to.
You realize you can make note of the exits as you’re walking to your table, right? It’s not like you have to sit and study them throughout the entire meal.
Bingo! We have a winner.
Bad things happen. They are not always shootings. Those that prepare are better able to react.
Anyone who does not take note of exits and emergency exits in a restaurant, night cub or theater is begging to become a crispy critter. Most bodies after a big fire are found piled up in front of an inoperable door. 100 people died in Rhode Island’s Station Nightclub fire because they couldn’t find the way out. We are still mourning those losses.
Wake up.
That is not what he said. Go re-read it and work on some reading comprehension. I can tell you from experience that both universities in Tallahassee have had several kinds of violence on campuses every year including that perpetrated with firearms, knives etc. and they are not uncommon.
I suppose you don’t look both ways before you cross the street either. Or look through the peephole when someone knocks on the door. Checking exits is just plain smart. A building fire is more likely than a shooting, and knowing how to quickly get the hell out can mean the difference between living and succumbing to smoke inhalation. But I suppose fires don’t happen in yout world either.
As the eminent philosopher, Lt Col Grossman once keenly observed: “baaaa!”
Gotta love the Colonel!
I do not have a CCW because of the intrusions it brings, reference what Mizery did to their citizens. Therefore, when I go to a resturant, I always position myself for best defense. Same for gas stations and grocery stores. Situational awareness is important.
I use the same approach when driving. I try to know where every vehicle close to me is, and what they are doing. If some one appears to be a texter, I use the right pedal to move away from their inattentive behavior.
Several years ago, I was riding with my son. He was driving and talking, when I suddenly said, “Pull left”. he did, and a driver entering the highway missed our front end by inches. No thought on my part, just hypervigilance. Had he not, that slammed into my door. I don’t think that driver saw us, or cared. he was on the phone.
…And this would be why you would be a defenseless moron, laying there bleeding. Only then wishing you had a gun…
I always considered a keltec sub2000 as a great practical solution for an active shooter situation. Folds in half and fits in a laptop bag with a pistol of choice that takes matching magazines and ammo…..
Of course I can’t have firearms at work, and I can’t find a sub2000. Sooo, I lose….
Detroiter, you beat me to it by one second.
CDNN has some in stock right now, as of an email like 3 days ago. I think .40 S&W.
I.saw that too, but I need a 9mm with anything but a Glock magwell to work with my existing pistols……seriously considering buying a .40 though since the only sub200o’s I’ve seen in 2 years are in that caliber…..
The Kel-Tec SUB-2000 carbine in .40 S&W is the ideal self-defense firearm if you are a victim at a mass-shooting. It is small, light, maneuverable, and extremely reliable. And yet you can hit an 8 inch pie plate all day long at 50 yards. But wait, there’s more! Recoil is almost non-existent and the report is unexpectedly quiet. (The 16 inch long barrel is to some extent an integral suppressor.) Plus it folds in half which means it can fit in a notebook computer bag or backpack.
As for ballistics, it is .40 S&W which certainly isn’t the equivalent of a full-house load of #00 buckshot. Nevertheless, it launches premium 165 grain bullets at something like 1350 fps due to the extra long barrel. That’s .357 Magnum territory! And, if you get the version that accepts Glock magazines, you can purchase 22 and even 29 round magazines.
For close quarters combat, I cannot begin to imagine a more effective solution that fits in a backpack, briefcase, or notebook computer bag.
I have a Kel Tec Sub 2000 in .40 cal that rides in my backpack everywhere I don’t have to travel by plane.
It folds up nice, holds a bunch of rounds, fires like a rifle and has decent accuracy. From its compact state, one consistent movement folds it back into a gun. This makes it easier to assemble than a coach gun, albeit without the resounding blast of 00 buckshot.
Anyway…………
Food for thought.
I’ve thought about getting a Sub2k just to keep in a laptop bag with me at work.
I carry a Glock 19 on my hip, with a Sub2000 in a backpack. You can get a sub2k if you want; that’s what gunbroker.com is for.
They will also fit in a moderately-roomy briefcase – or put one in a laptop case inside the briefcase, if you want to hide it in plain sight and still get into your briefcase at work. It even comes with a weird 2-prong brass key that lets you lock it in the folded/inoperable condition if you are worried about one of your co-workers getting hold of it and doing something stupid. Takes about an extra 2-3 seconds to dig your keychain out of your pocket and unlock it, with practice. And the 9mm Glock mag version will take those eeeevil 30-rnd Glock magazines, one or two of which would fit nicely in the same laptop/briefcase bag. The 17-rnd mags with a +2 addition fit in the grip/mag well without any major protrusion that might make it harder to fit into the laptop case. And I would like to add that the Sub2000 9mm versions works just dandy with the hot Cor-Bon +P loads. Those give you .357 muzzle energy (as measured from a 6″ pistol barrel), and a pretty good punch out to 100 yards.
Oh yeah, be sure to add a beard/mustache guard along the bolt operating area of the tubular stock if you happen to be gifted with facial hair. Having the bolt handle grab your ‘stache is something you won’t want to repeat. Not that I know anyone who has one of those nasty folding firearms….
There is just something inherently badass about a coach gun. Kind of like a single action .45. Taps into that whole wild west mythology. Regardless, vs. a single attacker, I would be perfectly comfortable with a coach gun (or as comfortable as one could possibly be when confronted with an attacker).
The Coach Gun kills from both ends at the same time with full-recoil slug or buck. Brutal. Fun, but brutal.
If your gonna go there….consider the Kel-Tec SU-16B. Foldable 5.56, std AR mags. Like 24 inches, super quick to unfold with one pin. Weighs 4.5 lbs. Can’t beat that.
Or look at the 16C model with the skeletonized stock that folds over a magazine but still allows you to fire it while folded. At 27″ folded, it will fit in a standard $15 Wilson tennis racquet case form Wal-Mart, without showing any awkward lumps or protrusions.
And just as an unrelated side note, I have heard rumors that the 16Charlie shoots the Fiocchi 69gr target ammo (Sierra HPBT Match) REALLY well, with an added very compact Leupold Mark AR MOD1 – 1.5-4x20mm scope with the green dot/mil-dot reticle. And they still fit in the tennis racquet bag. Total weight with one loaded 20-rnd magazine is about 5 pounds.
Not that I know anyone who has one of them.
LMAO…I went and walked the dog, grabbed lunch and when I come back there are quite a number of votes for Kel-Tec products. That is interesting. They definitely have some very nice toys.
This is a great article, but what do you do when your company and/or place of work does not allow firearms on their property? As much as I think that is a bad policy, I have a tendency to want to respect their wishes(property rights) because I just recently got a pretty great job at a big company that was probably more than I deserved. Anyway, that might be something to talk about in a future article. I know this is a gun blog, and technically it wouldn’t be gun related, but I’m sure I’m not the only reader with this problem.
I’ll mention I also leave my gun in the car, but there is a ten minute walk downtown(shady, but populated) and 20 minute train ride between me and said car. So not much room for running to the car and running back if I need it.
My work prohibits “illegal” firearms on the premises. That being said since we fall under MSHA( work in a mine/quarry) the answer is still forthcoming on federal law even with ccw license. As I also ride a motorcycle daily I keep my SAR K2/45 lock and loaded w/2 spare mags locked in my saddlebags. Less than a minute from where I work, to the bike, grab it and back in room. Practiced this a few times during some 3am to 3pm shifts.
Looking in to getting a SCCY 9mm for ankle carry.. Anyone have any idea how good these are?? LGS says they are great but they haven’t fired them, just based on what they read and hear.
Similar issue on this end. I am a consultant and I either work from home or travel (via air) and work at client sites. While home, no problem. While on a client site, it’s a completely different story. Regardless of whether I am armed or not, I think the first thing is awareness. Really, REALLY being aware of surroundings and environment, particularly entrances and exits. I actually make sure at every hotel I stay at that I can reach an emergency exit with my eyes closed – and yes, I practice it several times once I get into my room. Out door, turn left, last door on right, etc.
I carry simple stuff with me when I travel, like a flashlight. People think it’s goofy, but I have been in hotel fires three times – nothing big or dramatic, but they did have to clear the building in the middle of the night, as well as stuck in dark, unfamiliar buildings during power outages. Twice I have led employees at a site I worked at out of their own building during a power outage because they couldn’t find their way out.
Also, never underestimate the value of a gut feeling. My first job out of college was working as paid staff for Disaster Services for the Red Cross. We studied – and then I personally witnessed – disasters both big and small. A common theme – and this applies to many mass shootings – is that people heard something, their spider sense started tingling, and they didn’t act on it. It’s like the people in the WTC that were told by building security that everything was under control and they could return to their offices… a lot of people blindly turned around and started walking back upstairs. We know that many of these folks died. Others said, screw this, this is wrong, and kept going down. They survived. People just don’t act fast enough to a stimulus because they don’t want to acknowledge it is a real threat. Bang, bang, bang… must be a car backfiring or some building construction… Maybe it is, or maybe it’s a great time to get outside as quickly and surreptitiously as possible to see what the weather is like.
STRONGLY recommended book on this subject: “Trail Safe”, by Michael Bane. Although he aimed it at backpackers, his discussion of situational awareness and acting on it is applicable to every situation. And yes, he does recommend carrying a gun when you can do so.
Buy a North American Arms Mini-Revolver in .22mag, carry it very carefully in a pocket holster with your handkerchief, and NEVER tell anyone at work or anywhere else that you are carrying it. Fight very hard to keep your mouth shut about it to everyone. (“Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead.”) The NAA .22mag fits in the “Anything” category of guns, and if you have to use it to protect your life, I suspect getting fired later will not be one of your primary worries.
“A gun is like a parachute – if you need one and don’t have one, you will probably never need another one.”
“…carry it very carefully in a pocket holster with your handkerchief…”
Because you do carry a handkerchief, right? If not, what kind of man are you?
Think of the handkerchief as an excellent gun-hide that most people won’t want to examine closely.
I always carry at least one hankerchief on me. Other than wiping my glasses the last time I used one was to press to a bleeding head injury of an elderly gentleman that stumbled and fell on the sidewalk. I adminstered my hanky first aid while another passing motorist called 911.
Always remember your towel.
And, the first time you pull that handkerchief from your pocket and hand it to a weeping woman… or one just suffering a miserable allergy attack… the look of awe, gratitude, and admiration will ensure you never leave the house without one again. Especially, if she then hands it back to you when done and you place it nonchalantly back in your pocket as if it weren’t now holding a pint of fresh mucous.
@IdahoPete- Unless someone wants to “blow” there nose. That gives it a whole new meaning.
“Practicing with a small gun is almost as painful as a five-year-old’s knock-knock joke…”
It doesn’t have to be. My P238 (a “refined” .380) is quite comfortable to shoot. Fun, even. I’ve shot lots of .380s that are no fun at all, but the one I own is quite the opposite.
I concur. I like shooting my P238. I can carry it in my back pocket via a talon wallet holster or iwb etc. etc.
I recently retired as a teacher, in the deep south. I had a long gun (shotgun, Garand, MAK-90, etc) in the trunk of my car all the time, and frequently a handgun (Ruger .357 -4 inch barrel or Glock .45 ACP -model 21. I also knew which other teachers/custodial staff had either handguns or long guns most/all of the time, and what they had (everything from a Walther 22 to 45 GAP, shotguns, huntin’ rifles, etc). While we never openly discussed events, we were prepared to protect our students. Even at the possibility of arrests, etc
I work at a company with a no gun policy. My uniform restricts me to my LCP in an ankle or pocket holster. I’ve thought about carrying a backpack with a full-sized pistol inside. Currently I keep my regular EDC gun in the car, thinking about (but not really considering) a long gun in the trunk.
Backpacks tend to get searched and asked for with no warning. I’d probably not go that route if possible, unless you are planning on leaving the backpack in the trunk of your car.
Tha LCP works great in the pocket holster that Buds has on their front page. It doesn’t look like a gun in your pocket, you can shoot, switch mags, and manipulate the slide–all from the holster. I carry one everywhere, everyday and no one has ever noticed or asked about it. My hands are smallish so the little LCP suits me a little better than some other folks.
Nice thing about the coach gun is if you feel threatened, you can go out in the hallway and fire two blasts. Or shoot through the door. Get a coach gun.
And when you get arrested for negligent discharge of a firearm, Joe Biden will testify at your trial!
LOL … thanks, I needed that.
I agree with this post.
Since we have two shots with the coach, should we fire one through the door and one in the air on the balcony? If so, which first, door or balcony?
I used to carry in one of those under the left arm pit rigs at work, which was fine for being in a cubicle. Not so great for being accosted in the parking garage. Now, I work at home. Unless they are coming in all three doors, my little LCP will do fine as a distraction. If they come in while I’m upstairs, well, that’s what the evil black rifle is for….
I kept a Glock 17 in my book bag for a big part of my senior year of college. Anyway, why would one opt for the p238 over the 938? The 938 is near as makes no difference the same size, and a 9mil.
For it’s size, yes the 938 is basically the 238’s equal. From my personal shooting experiences with each of them, the 238 is a much better size/power match than it is with 9mm on a similar frame. The microseconds of time to adjust fire (if needed of course) make it my ideal carry over it’s slight larger sibling.
If I may humbly expand on your choice of the 9mm Springfield XD (M). I have the XD (not M) .45 Compact. With the 10 round mag it is just about as concealable as my Beretta 84 in .380. An extra 13 round mag in another pocket rounds out the deal. I have an ITWB holster and I find it fairly comfortable. I just wish I could find a reasonable ($75 or less) replacement holster upgrade.
Aliengearholsters.com
The company I’m currently working at is bipolar on the issue. Since some personnel engage in wildlife surveys and the like, they recognize that the employee may encounter a large predator such as a bear in the wild. Carrying a gun in these situations is permitted. However the more likely encounter with a human predator in the city is ignored and no guns are permitted in the office.
I would love to carry 24/7. But, California. As for trunk guns, I’m seeing 2 sides to this. If a real apocalypse was to start having a solid shotgun in the trunk would be a great. But if I’m working(I do now, retirement got boring) and workplace violence kicks off and I’m able to get to my car, why not just leave?
“But if I’m working … and workplace violence kicks off and I’m able to get to my car, why not just leave?”
Excellent point. That pretty much guarantees your safety.
If you try grabbing a long gun and running back into the building, other armed people (whether co-workers, police, or criminals) may shoot you.
I am in favor of shooting my way out past a criminal. But I would not advise running in to engage a criminal … unless your family were inside. While I feel a sense of compassion and duty to fellow citizens, I am not responsible for their choice to be unarmed and unprepared. We often ask gun grabbers to respect our choice to be armed. Well, I respect other people’s choice to be unarmed … and the consequences of that choice.
“While I feel a sense of compassion and duty to fellow citizens, I am not responsible for their choice to be unarmed and unprepared. We often ask gun grabbers to respect our choice to be armed. Well, I respect other people’s choice to be unarmed … and the consequences of that choice.”
Bingo. Got that right. Their decision, their consequences.
I have had years of force protection indoctrination and training. You are a bad guy by default if you aren’t wearing the home team colors. Either get out or get down armed or not. The only time you reveal that you are armed is if the bad guy shows up in your immediate vicinity and there are no armed good guys in sight..
tdiinva,
I agree with your sentiments. The problem is that jwm mentioned retrieving a long gun from the trunk of his/her car and returning to the building. It is next to impossible to conceal a long gun as you suggested.
as a “cubicle dweller” #1 is my setup (same gun too) as for bobbing and weaving when shooting I have CT laser grips which will help also I sit by a large plate glass wind on the ground floor which faces my car and I keep a hammer in my desk
Brilliant sir! The hammer is an Excellent idea! I am going to send one to work with my wife on Monday, or today if she comes home for lunch. She is spoiled like that.
mind you J,G the hammer is to just to get it cracked…..the chair (or the desk) is going thru it to open it up the rest of the way
I was going to say… don’t underestimate the difficulty of breaking a commercial window. A sledgehammer would be best.
There’s a Stoeger Coach at my local Bass Pro that I almost broke down and bought last weekend. If I hadn’t just bought a new pistol and if I wasn’t working towards a Mini 14, I would have bought it.
Someone please explain to me why an XD(m) is a better choice than a Glock 17?
@ roadkill6
The weapon you find most reliable, accurate, easy to carry and deploy in the environment you most often find yourself is the best choice for you.
If you are unfamiliar with what’s available or unsure what to chose, go to a well equipped range and rent some for comparison; You could also do like some, buy a lot and set up your favorites to carry in different settings.
@ roadkill6
To specifically answer your question: I can’t speak to the difference between the XDM 9 and the Glock 17 specifically.
In comparing the 5″ XD Tactical .45 with the 4.6″ Glock 21 before deciding which to purchase, I found them to be nearly identical. The XD seemed to be a tad more accurate for me, and the XD magazines were definitely easier to load especially the last round.
That’s why you should try out a firearm (if you can) B4 you buy.
Grip safety.
Point taken, Matt.
Thanks!
I carry an XD .40 Subcompact with the Xtension (full size 12 rnd mag) and have carried a g19 before in a similiar hybrid style holster. Both are fun to shoot and about the same work to conceal and carry comfortably. Id say its ALL personal preference, Ive shot the XD more than any other handgun in my life and just end up taking it usually.
Perhaps because a Springfield is better made, more accurate and safer than a Glock?
That sir is a very subjective statement!
Not really. The grip safety on the Springfield makes it safer. For any given shooter proficiency it shoots tighter groups. Better made is subjective so that makes one out of three and that gets you in the Hall of Fame.
I tend to shoot better groups with my G19 @ 7 yards than I do with my buddy’s XD, but I’ve put way more rounds down range with the Glock than the Springfield. Different strokes for different folks. The XD is probably cooler looking than a Gen 2 G19 though.
Options:
1. Continuous SA including constantly assessing one’s cover and withdrawal options is your best means of self defense.
2. If you are in a location where it is lawful to carry and you can in practice actually obtain (where required) a carry permit (unlike most of CA), even better.
Unfortunately for most of us law abiding types, who don’t want to become “prohibited persons” if discovered flaunting the “rules”; we must mostly rely on option 1 when in public venues.
So unlike the bad actors who ignore restrictions, we good guys must heed the ‘no weapons’ signs when going on Base or entering other firearms restricted areas. If we do otherwise we risk losing our freedoms.
What about a Serbu Super Shorty? it has…Wait for it…3 shots!! Or a SBS with a 4 shot mag tube?
If I *had* to take a firearm to work, and I’m assuming a office, production floor, gas station, restaurant environment, I’d think you’d want to go with one of the smallest, lightest, comfortable firearms you could carry. For 3, I’d suggest/consider a .22LR or .22 Mag derringer. Hey, laugh at them after someone points one at you from 10 feet away. Next suggestion is the old school snubby revolver, from .22LR up to .357 mag/.38 – sounds like .327 Federal is a viable round. No one’s laughing at this point, hmm? What about a semi auto mouse gun for 3rd choice, like the article mentioned with the Sig .380 – but there’s tons of mini-tiny-nineys out there, heck, even a taurus 709 isn’t outrageous of a suggestion. Storing it is a different matter. Well, there’s ankle, small of back, pocket, heck, some derringers mount to the belt buckle – if you don’t mind looking like a rodeo rider.
I am one of two people on my floor of the office building. If there’s going to be mass workplace violence here, it ain’t happening on my floor. giving me plenty of time to vacate the premises.
That’s not to say a companion doesn’t tag along, but I would much rather avoid getting into a confrontation with an armed man, even if I am also armed.
If I was going to iniate work place violence (I’m not) I would pick off the lone or isolated employees first. Quietly as possible. Then work my way into the herd.
Incredibly lucky, you could call me, working as I do for a left-coast liberal anti-gun networking company. No firearms allowed in the office (by policy and door notification), so I work from home via VPN. Entire firearm collection is available to me during working hours; I’ve not physically been into the office for maybe 6-9 months.
My 3 guns for workplace violence are a 4006 TSW with 3 + 1 eleven round mags, an 870 with a side saddle with 5 extra rounds, and a de-mil M16A1 with 3 + 2 twenty round mags. I’m thinking of outfitting my trunk with a Ruger 10-22 takedown, but that would be more of an SHTF deal.
If you pull out a long gun, your chances for being mistaken as the active shooter to up exponentially. I say this from the perspective of someone who has gone through several cycles of LE active shooter training. Granted, such worries are for the living, and not hapless victims. Even a sidearm would be highly beneficial.
Given the propensity of LE to shoot the wrong people, I would seriously consider taking a concealed handgun to an active shooter event. Granted that is a whole can of worms, but the element of surprise is also a weapon. YMMV.
Having a firearm is actually encouraged where I work, unless we have to go on base I think everyone at the office is packing heat. All management requests is that you have a CWL and a copy on file with the office manager.
When the new Sig MPX pistol comes out, it will be the perfect backpack pistol. A backpack for the gun will also be available. Can’t wait!
I mostly work sat home, so I have a lot of SD choices there. Sometimes I work in unsecured state and local government buildings. I can carry there legally and do, either with .38 snub-in-pocket or .40 compact in a holster under a baggy shirt. With my waistline I could probably conceal a Mosin M44 rifle, but I think that would be overkill.
I’m another very fortunate one. My XD45 is usually on the window sill next to my chair. The boss has his In a wall basket behind his chair. The P-90 is in my BOB in the car. (Gated lot).
I once had a Beretta Tomcat (.32) that I had drilled and tapped for a sling swivel near the mag well. I used to wear it around my neck on a chain as my JIC (Just in Case) gun.
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