Official TTAG gun rights denier Mikeb302000 finally commented on my article describing the first stages of teaching grandchild Five and Six how to shoot. Thanks Mike, I was starting to feel a bit left out. In the article I described how I focus on safety and tell the boys they have to memorize and recite the Four Rules of Firearms Safety as a condition of being able to shoot with Grandpa. But then Mike wrote…

I think it’s a big mistake to teach kids that young the 4 Rules and expect them to git (sic) it. That’s asking for trouble. I suppose if they NEVER have unsupervised access to the guns, and ALWAYS use them under the proper guidance, there’s no harm. But, I’m afraid many people put too much responsibility and too high expectations on the kids.

Mike posits that knowledge of the Four Rules is troublesome unless kids only have supervised access to firearms. I actually think Mike’s sentence is logically incoherent, but what I derive from the statement is that Mike misunderstands the purpose of the Four Rules and their place in gun culture.

I anticipate that my boys will inevitably come across a firearm without adult supervision.  A friend may show them their daddy’s gun. My friends sure did.  A buddy and I were snooping around and found a .38 pistol of some sort. He dared me to pick it up. I did and he said, “don’t point it at me.” And I didn’t. Had I not been exposed to the Four Rules and their ramifications, it may not have occurred to me to be mindful of where the muzzle was pointing.

I didn’t point it at him because as a Cub Scout, we had been introduced to the Four Rules at a pack meeting. The lecture I received in a group is not unlike the one I gave my boys, and the one I give to all my grandchildren as they come of age.

The first line of defense is to tell kids not to touch a weapon unless a family member or other appropriate adult allows them. That may fail some day, children being children.  When my sons or grandsons are looking down at a shiny weapon, I fully expect a little tow-headed devil to pop up on their left shoulder and say “go on…touch it!”

I hope he would resist that temptation and ask his friend to put it away or – better yet – leave. Failing that, I want him to know the Four Rules and their importance. The Four Rules are ideally meant to prevent negligent discharges, but their layered effect also serves to mitigate the effect of a negligent discharge. I at least want a negligent discharge to be an embarrassing story they tell their buddies 30 years later. Not a tragedy they’ll always have to live with.

When it comes to the dangers of life, particularly good things that are dangerous, we parents have before us the choice of quarantine, inoculation or letting children “decide for themselves.”  I think the last option is the worst because children are basically barbarians, ignorant of the hazards of life and prone to foolishness.

Leaving them to learn from other ignorant, foolish barbarians is negligent. Quarantine will only work so long as the child goes unexposed. Inoculation, though, means an empty hole where knowledge belongs is filled with wisdom from their family and community.  We choose to fill these holes intentionally and on our own timetable rather than to leave them defenseless.

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67 COMMENTS

  1. What’s Mike on about? At what point did you advocate leaving small children unsupervised with loaded guns?

    • “children are basically barbarians, ignorant of the hazards of life and prone to foolishness.”

      That is one of the best quotes regarding children that I have ever read.

    • TTACer –

      16 years teaching Children’s Church (ages 5-3rd grade), 12 years as a youth group leader, stepdad to four, grandpa to eight. I love children, but I am under no delusions about them.

  3. All I know is, if you teach kids right, there’s not much downside. The Rules come first, plus a bit of technical stuff about safeties, then actual shooting later. In my case, my uncle did all that. Started me out at about 5 or 6, didn’t let me shoot until I was 8. Once, just once, I flagged him with a .22 while we were shooting. He snatched that gun, knocked me fifteen feet into a snowbank and declared the shooting session over, which was by far the worst part. I never mishandled a weapon again, and to this day, I get a sick feeling whenever I see anyone being careless with a weapon.

    Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it, I believe the saying goes.

    • Proverbs 22:6

      I can tell you that your kids will not always heed your instruction. There is no cure for human rebellion. We can minimize the effects by having a loving relationship and spending time sharing knowledge, wisdom and encouragement, but eventually they will do something dumb – the question is how dumb.

      I think Mike is hoping for a world where nothing ever goes wrong, which is not possible. In that pursuit, he is letting the best be the enemy of better.

    • Amen. My 4 and 6 yr olds know the rules and know they cannot touch a weapon without an adult. Amazing what kids can memorize and apply if you just let them.

    • Tarrou, I have been soooo temped to beat the crap out of people who “flag” me. It is a fault of my personality that I either make a very big deal out of a serious safety issue or I quietly walk away. Like most guys, I am adverse to conflict and usually walk away.

      Twelve years ago I was at the far end of a gun show. You know, where the slow booths are, the people more spread out, and things are a little dull. I was getting ready for the trip back up the other side when I saw a group of four middle eastern guys watching their fifth dude aim an AK at my head. They seemed to be enjoying themselves. I was about thirty five feet away with no one between us. The owner of the booth and the rifle did my work for me. He cleared the table like a pole vaulter, grabbed the AK and did his best to yank the moron’s shoulder out of socket with the maneuver. He gave the guy a lesson on the four rules the five will never forget. Remember the chew out in the movie Glengarry Glen Ross delivered by Alec Baldwin? Baldwin had nothing on this exhibitor. The gang of five had to trudge back through the crowd not only being outsiders but being outed as stupid jerks with zero brains. I thanked the guy. He did my job for me and also kept me from getting arrested.

      Second: A year ago the counterman at Bass Pro handed a 1911 to a potential customer after removing the magazine and raking the slide. The gun still had its red screw type trigger lock in place. The customer stood there with a silly grin holding the gun like a dead fish. Of course it was pointed straight at me. Poor ole me who was simply standing down counter eight feet to the guy’s right. Now, I knew the thing was unloaded. Not much chance it could have been otherwise. I also knew the guy was standing under a surveillance camera that would either be used for me or against me. Eight feet. Two steps and a hard right uppercut. The counter behind me would be useful to spring off and take the guy down. Did I do it? Hell no. I looked up, shook my head and walked out. Avoid conflict. Never bother letting the guy know he was really pissing me off. Just leave.

      Third: A month ago I was in an upscale gun shop. The city’s finest. Lots of three thousand dollar and up o/u’s. Big Sig dealer which is what I wanted to lust over that day. The owner of the shop waited on me and pulled the Sig out of the case and stood there holding it aimed at my gut while showing me various aspects of what a fine gun this is as if I have never shot a Sig or perhaps even held a gun. He then laid the Sig on the counter and walked over to a calendar and looked up the date the factory rep was scheduled to be back in town and suggested I might enjoy meeting the guy. Then he walked back, picked up the gun and swept me twice before putting it back in the display case. Wow. Well you know what I did. I walked out. Quietly. Not a peep.

      Am I a chicken sh!t? Maybe. I would like to think not. I have chased down an armed robber (on foot) resulting in his arrest and about seven months ago I caught a hit and run driver who ran after running a stop sign and causing a pile up on the highway. Thank goodness for cell phones and my J frame. I have saved a life twice. Once a rape victim who was aspirating on her vomit and once a guy who was trapped in a Mustang after a head on collision. Both of these were thirty to thirty five years ago. Not bad for someone who is not a l.e.o. or a fireman. Now that I am an OFWG I really appreciate my carry permit. Since the hit and run driver I have lost 45 pounds and rebuilt some muscle. I have more endurance now and I resolve to lose another 45 pounds this year. Tell the truth. How many of you lie about weight on your form 4473’s? Hmmm?

      Someday they will say “he just snapped, no warning at all, I have no idea why he did that to poor “enter name of stupid jerk” no, ole Zach never acted that way before.

      To be fair, I have spent a lot of time at ranges, made thousands of stops at gun shops, and been to my share of gun shows. Believe it or not, in my experience gun ranges have the least of this behavior. A gun show after all is a gun free zone for all practical purposes. A range however is a live fire happening. I promise you this. Ole Zach will not shoot Stupid Jerk. I will beat him with his gun. And I won’t stop until I think he has become educated on the four rules. Thank you Tim for a great piece. I wish everyone would read it.

  4. I agree that more supervised access is better. I took a friend’s advise and I think it has paid off: each time my boy asked to see or hold a gun I let him. Each time he was made to recite the Eddie Eagle rules and the Four Rules in advance. I also ask him to name the components of the various guns while he holds them and obey the Four Rules.

    What this does is to remove the mystery and the taboo aspect from the guns and that seems to have removed a lot of the temptation to clandestinely seek out the things.

    Also, I take him shooting and that keeps him happy. 😉

    He is seven years old, BTW.

    • I think you’re wrong about that Charles.

      “What this does is to remove the mystery and the taboo aspect from the guns and that seems to have removed a lot of the temptation to clandestinely seek out the things.”

      I hope you don’t pay too heavy a price for that mistake.

      Kids that age are too inquisitive, mischievous, even stubborn and rebellious. Plus what you’ve instilled in him is a desire to imitate daddy, to do what daddy does. These aspects of the childhood personality are all too powerful to think you’ve overcome them with your gun safety lessons.

      In the end, proper supervision is the only hope of protecting our kids.

      • I’m having a really really difficult time fathoming your logic and can’t help but wonder if you grew up with guns and the Four Rules. That is exactly the approach my parents, and the parents of practically all of my friends took, letting us become familiar with and not afraid of guns at our own pace. I started shooting .22’s at 6 or 7, and got my first gun at 8. However, I never fired anything larger than a .22 until I was 13, but I really wish I had since I still have the “flinch” every now and then when firing my SMLE.

        There is no better way to introduce someone to something as potentially lethal as a gun. A very similar approach is used when training new drivers, and a car is, physics-wise, actually even more potentially destructive than any firearm that civilians can legally own, not to mention infinitely more complex. Nearly all firearms have only 4 controls that one need operate to properly use. An automobile has at least 16, not counting the radio and climate control systems, 4 times as many, and that is only a bare-bones vehicle like a Geo Metro. If Americans can be trusted to operate such a complex, dangerous tool as the automobile with as little restriction as is present when one follows basic, intelligent laws, then shouldn’t we also be allowed to own and use even less destructive tools with relative freedom as long as we don’t abuse that trust?

  5. Had my first revolver when I was 5 years old, little Ruger .22.

    Was taught the four rules before it was bought for me, and could only shoot with supervision. Was also a good incentive to behave, couldn’t go shooting if I didn’t.

    • I think such a program should be taught in every school and a Hunter Safety program should be taught later on at all schools.
      After WWII, we had gobs of parents, uncles, family friends, even Grandparents who were in WWI to instruct us. The people with gun experience has thinned.

      • Nope. The people with gun TRAINING has thinned. Sorry to be picky but everybody and his brother think they are “experienced”. This word and the phrase “common sense” are related.

  7. “if you teach kids right, there’s not much downside.” Can you believe that? That bit of “wisdom for the ages” is from Tarrou.

    Does that mean that every kid who does something stupid with a gun, or anything else, was not taught right? Of course not. Kids are curious. Some, boys especially, are incredibly mischievous. In the States they drug them for that in alarming numbers. But, normal kids who are not medicated for being normal kids, cannot be trusted with guns unless they’re supervised.

    Your story is a good one, and I’m sure many others readers here have similar experiences. But, aren’t you guys the ones who keep telling me the plural of anecdote is not data?

    I don’t know what you could possibly consider “logically incoherent” in what I said. If you depend on teaching kids the four rules RATHER THAN proper supervision, I think you’re making a big mistake. Do both, by all means, but it’s not the 4 rules that’ll protect them, it’s the proper parental oversight and guidance untill they’re old enough to fend for themselves.

    • I think you’re underestimating the fact that young children can learn to follow rules. Of course, you should know your own kids and what they’re like. When my parents told me not to touch guns/play with matches/talk to strangers, I listened. Why? Because I understood that those things were dangerous. Now, I did know kids who were absolutely undisciplined, and I’ve also encountered adults like that nowadays. Not all kids are the same.

      Teaching them the safety rules can’t hurt, but obviously you’re not going to let your child shoot if they’ve not shown any responsibility or obedience. My parents trusted me not to play with dangerous things when they weren’t around nor they didn’t have to hide their cash for fear of me stealing it, they knew I was trustworthy.

      I don’t see anyone here saying to teach them the rules and then let them do whatever they want, not while they’re still children. What we’re saying is that simply hiding your guns and keeping them ignorant is a recipe for disaster, because they may come in contact with one outside of your control.

    • I agree with the first quote from the post. I don’t expect my children to fully understand the 4 rules until they are older at least in their tweens. You can tell young children not to stick things in light sockets, you can cover the light sockets with protective covers, but you would be amazed at the amount of 13 year old kids I see every year stick pencils in light sockets at school. It is the same with guns. I can’t teach my child about the 4 rules when he is a toddler and expect him to fully understand them. At 3 he knows not to touch them and that there is a difference between his toy guns and Daddy’s guns, but he doesn’t fully understand the difference. When he is a little older, I will drill the rules into his brain, but right now it is more important to me to control the access and begin teaching him the difference between things that are toys and things that are not. Once he understands that, I will start with the four rules.

    • @Mikeb302000

      “Do both, by all means, but it’s not the 4 rules that’ll protect them, it’s the proper parental oversight and guidance untill they’re old enough to fend for themselves.”

      Where did anyone say you can have one without the other? In fact, the point of teaching the 4 rules is the guidance. You cannot be with your kids 100% of the time, it is the lessons you teach that you hope and pray they remember when you are not there is what is important. Also, while many of us will teach our kids the right life lessons, there are many that do not — by teaching the 4 rules (along with the proper guidance) helps protect your kids as well as others.

      I grew up on my grandparents farm and we were insulated from anything, we were taught how to deal with firearms and other farm related implements almost as dangerous as a gun. The lessons I learned helped me when I was younger and one of the neighborhood kids came around and said “look what I found” —

      So, go ahead, be anti-gun if you want, but having your kids know and understand how to be around guns will be important so that when they have their own “look what I found” moment they will know what to do.

      It is much better to prepare for the worst, hope for the best and pray in never happens than to come upon a situation where you are completely unprepared as to how to handle a situation. While you cannot prepare for everything, there are many lessons that you can teach.

      Also, given some of the math and other things they are required to learn these days (including taking an exam before they can enter kindergarden in some states), I believe they can handle learning the 4 rules. I know the anti-gun groups hate the NRA, but they should take a look at the Eddie the Eagle program versus trying to develop their own BS that does not work and is developed by people who have never handled a gun.

      • When I was in the 8th grade, I used to play with matches, firecrackers, and if there’d been guns around, I’m sure I would have been into them too.

        I wasn’t the only one either, I had plenty of company.

        Yet, all you guys were so mature when you were kids, you didn’t do any of that shit. It’s amazing.

        • “When I was in the 8th grade, I used to play with matches”

          Damn those adults who taught you stop drop and roll, and how to use a fire extinguisher! They just made you curious is all.

          • Clearly, Mikey was a late bloomer. By 8th grade we were making contact explosive, pipe bombs, flying F-class model rockets, building short-wave radios and Jacob’s Ladders, among other things. Most of us lived to tell the tale. I have nothing but pity, and more than a little scorn, for the bubble-boy, Purell slathered, SPF 100, X-Box generation.

        • I think that says more about you then it does about us. I knew better than to set things on fire without supervision well before 8th grade. I also knew where my father’s rifles were, and I knew not to touch them because they weren’t toys.

          You’re right however, that many kids either aren’t taught better, or are simply reckless and ignore the rules. I don’t think that means we should lower the bar and expect less from children. Otherwise, they might carry those habits into adulthood.

        • Mikey, when you were in the 8th grade, you used to play with more than matches. I’m betting that you still do.

    • I do not think you could reasonably derive from anything I have written that I was advocating that kids be allowed to shoot unsupervised, or even handle guns unsupervised. I would further state that none of those making comments here think that is acceptable.

      Teaching kids is not a substitute for adult supervision. It is a safety process for when kids are under adult supervision but certainly have a significant value for when adults are not around, a point I explicitly and thoroughly illustrated.

      Maybe I was being hasty – perhaps your responses do not suffer from a lack of logic, but a lack of comprehension.

      • “perhaps your responses do not suffer from a lack of logic, but a lack of comprehension.”

        This has been explained to him ad nauseum. I don’t think it is a lack of comprehension either. It is willful ignorance. He is so biased against guns that he can’t take a pro position in any instance, no matter how compelling the argument.

      • C’mon Tim, you can do better than that. “Lack of comprehension” is it?

        You’re the one who provided that anecdotal tale of your mis-spent youth, which I took as evidence that teaching kids the 4 rules works.

        Now you say nothing you said was like that.

        You have an over-emphasis on the teaching-the-kids bit. That’s asking for trouble.

        • Mike,
          Please cite where Tim suggested that we teach a child the basic safety rules for firearms then hand them a loaded weapon and turn them loose to play outside without us there.

          All Tim is suggesting, and correctly so, is that children should be properly educated. We teach sex ed to children in grade school and junior high. If the child is old enough to learn what a condom is then he is old enough to learn not to point a firearm at someone else.

          I would dare say that all kids would be better off if we tought them to be as safe with a gun as as we do with their own genitals.

        • Teaching the kids the 4 rules and leaving them alone is not the point of the article as far as I can tell. Ironically, while you and the rest of the posters seem determined to disagree with one another, your actually making the same basic point. Namely that the 4 rules are only a starting point for teaching our children to be safe around firearms. Each individual parent is going to have to decide for themselves when their children are ready to be taken to a range but we have little or no control over what our kids are exposed to when they are outside our control and protection and teaching them the 4 rules at a young age is the beginning of a life long process. A life long process will at some point, depending on the child, HELP them to be safe around firearms. Nothing is a guarantee they won’t be hurt by a firearm, but by teaching them and exposing them to the real thing under controlled conditions we can reduce the risk.

        • Mike – When I disobeyed my parents and touched a gun without their permission, I was better off with knowledge of firearm safety than without because me and my buddy at least knew to be careful.

          Either you are being intentionally obtuse, or you do have a comprehension issue. Note how so many folks who are less enlightened than our progressive betters are able to understand my point.

          • I’m begining to see that you’re wasting your breath with Mikey. He either refuses to see reason because it is too difficult for him to admit he may have to change he view on firearms since he may have to re-evaluate he stance on other matters. Or because he has too much invested in the argument for stripping people of their rights.

            Either way he picks and chooses which comments he will respond to while avoiding the tough arguments and factual data. Also, I’ve noticed that as soon as the conversation ceases to go his way Mikey stops responding. It shows an unwillingness to re-evaluate one’s personal beliefs.

    • Does that mean that every kid who does something stupid with a gun, or anything else, was not taught right? Of course not.

      Very nearly always stupidity is a result of poor training. Even retarded people can be well trained.

    • And that bit of intellectual dishonesty is from Mike. Good day sir, there’s no point in having an argument with someone who won’t even give your statements their obvious meaning. Of course, from the anti-2A crowd, we should expect no less. How nice it must be not to have to even read the other side’s arguments, when you can just falsify them for yourself!

    • Mike, your experience is lacking. At 13 I ran a trap line with 65 traps. Do you have any idea how much work that is before and after school? I had a .22 Savage revolver in a holster. Often I needed to shoot what I had trapped. The .22 was perfect for the job. Unless there was a game warden watching quietly I was never supervised. By the way, I checked and reset traps every morning and cleaned pelts of an evening. I learned a lot but mostly I learned that I was not going to make a living as a professional trapper.

      One of my sons took my 12 volt trap thrower out one Saturday. He an his four friends planned a morning of popping clays. We have access to an acreage perfect for this purpose except a builder has built a few homes on adjoining land behind where we shoot from (meaning we shoot into an empty field). A lady who was new to the area called the Sheriff.
      Two deputies responded. One was dropped off at the lady’s house and the other left to block the kid’s vehicle in case they made a run for it.

      The first deputy came around behind the guys and belly crawled to a point where he could watch them. All five had earned the rank of Eagle Scout which if you knew anything about Scouting tells you they were 13 or older. One had to be at least 14, (the minimum age to drive in my state). They had a shooting line of two posts with a rope. After watching them the deputy got up, walked into their range and told them how proud he was to watch these young men conduct themselves so safely. He also told the woman this place had been used for trap shooting for years and to get used to it happening a half dozen or so Saturdays a year. One of these young men is now attending West Point. This could have easily cost him his appointment if the deputy had been named MIKE 302000. My son is serving a mission for our church in Washington state. So we don’t just turn our sons and daughters out to go shooting unsupervised, we even let groups of them go. This is what we call “common sense” upbringing of our youth, Mike.

      So, tell me. Why did Washington DC have twenty seven times more murders than the larger city of El Paso in 2010? Eh? Are you brave enough to handle that question Mikey?

      • Am I BRAVE enough to answer? What the hell does “bravery” have to do with it.

        Besides, that’s been asked and answered many times, even recently. You can look for it if you have time.

  8. For children and new shooters the 4 rules are great teaching aids. They are simple, clear rules that provide a solid base to build on. My dad taught these rules to me, and I will teach them to my son. However when I explain the 4 rules to adults I change it to “Treat all guns as if they are always loaded.” I change it for adults because they can understand there is a physical point at which all guns are unloaded and more ammo needs to be loaded into the firearm. Children however are sometimes not capable of thinking conditionally, young children especially think in absolutes so for the wording “all guns are always loaded” is important it creates a single condition in their mind.

  9. Guys, guys, guys! Please remember that MikeB302000 doesn’t even live here in the US he lives in Rome and is paid by the United Nations to work against the United States and our 2nd Amendment rights.
    He is not our friend. He’s not even occupying the same “Dirt” as us, yet wants to spout off against our rights.
    We 2A’rs need to be EVER Vigilant.
    His LIES and mis-information contribute to laws like the stupid “assault weapons ban” that Carolyn McCarthy help to write. Here she is one of the actual legislative authors and didn’t even know what a damn barrel shroud was….when asked she said the “Thing that goes up!!” Are you kidding me this idiot lady is writing legislation when we know more about the topic than she does.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ospNRk2uM3U
    BE on Guard!!!

  10. Why are we arguing the meaning of gun-ownership rules of responsibility with a scumbag who doesn’t think anyone should own them at all anyway? (except his governmental overlords, of course)

    • “a scumbag who doesn’t think anyone should own them at all”I have to take exception with that. I DO NOT think no one should own guns except the government overlords.The “scumbag” part, I don’t know, I guess it depends on what you mean by that. I suppose that’s your colorful way of describing someone who doesn’t agree with you.

    • I think “scumbag” is a little harsh. Illogical, misguided, closed-minded and willfully obtuse, definitely.

  12. I didn’t learn the Four Rules until much later in life. When I was young, I learned the NRA’s Three Rules, plus my Dad’s Three Rules.

    Dad’s Rules: 1. Never point a gun at someone unless you want to shoot them. 2. Keep your ^%$&^*^$ finger off the trigger. 3. More people have been accidentally shot with “unloaded” guns than with loaded ones.

  13. Just for clarification, I’m Grandma, aka, sweetheart!

    We did have fun taking our adult granddaughter shooting yesterday. It was great watching her hone her skills and figure out what firearm would work best for her in a self-defense situation. After firing my S & W .38 revolver with the Crimson Trace, she decided the trace would eliminate the problem she has with opposite dominate hand/eye issues. We feel much better about her living alone, a thousand miles from her family, knowing she has a firearm and that she knows how to use it safely!

  14. I grew up on my grandparents farm and we were insulated from anything, we were taught how to deal with firearms and other farm related implements almost as dangerous as a gun. The lessons I learned helped me when I was younger and one of the neighborhood kids came around and said “look what I found” —

    Oh, there were plenty of other dangerous items such as grain augers, farm implements, large farm tractors and combines, PTO shafts, dangerous farm animals, etc.
    I was almost killed by a row marker from a corn planter implement when I was a child.

  15. Tim this was very good thanks.
    As to the where with all of experiences there are rules for everything in life experiments without guidance can and will lead to bad endings. I was stubborn as with most things rules seamed to restrict as opposed free and this is where guidance from others who are not reckless or lacking in knowledge is what has and will save most of us from suffering the bad outcomes. I teach my kids the same rules for paintball guns, archery, and all projectile sports as I will when its time for guns. But without a doubt one needs to know when one needs outside help to guide. I’m not all-knowing. But you can bet that Darwin knew something.

  16. Children have to learn responsibility just like any other skill. It comes by giving them responsibility and increasing it as they show that they have mastered the lower levels.

    If you insulate children from responsibility until they are 18, then expect them to exercise responsibility in contracts, social interaction, and money, you are setting them up for failure. Children are capable of far more responsibility than our current nanny state suggests.

    I suspect most nanny state types wish to treat us all as children all the time.

  18. You have to remember, MikeB is the one who has famously claimed “Children can not be educated!” and still expects to be taken seriously.

    Whatever.

  19. Hey There Tim Mcnabb,
    Thanks for your thoughts, i understand how to play and i know what safeties are and what push outs are.

    But when i was playing with my friends, i had to “bs” some rules because i had no idea what i was supposed to do lol.

    Because once he hit the ball off the table, and i was like umm. i guess the opponent gets the ball and puts it wherever. right?

    and one time he hit the wrong target ball. he hit 4 instead of 1, and i know thats a foul. And i get ball, but wtf do i do with the 4? do i just put it back to where it was? or leave it be?

    also, he hit freaking 1 but than he shot in 7. i know its okay for 1-9 combo. but what do i do if he shoots in the 7 with the 1? i probably get ball in hand, but what do i do with the 7 ball?? take it back out?? and put it where it might have been??

    It feels very wrong to me, to keep playing when somebody shot in the wrong ball, not in order. And to just keep going like that feels off. I mean other than the break shot…
    Catch you again soon!
    To win 200% bet game

  20. I am the father of the adult granddaughter they are so proud of teaching to shoot.Yes they believe in guns so much they put the gun in the hands of my adult daughter, without my knowledge. As I am her father who covers part of her college expenses. I think I was entitled to know that she had a gun. And it was in my vehicle when we took her to college in Colorado. It has also given her a false sense of security. Let’s hope nothing happens to her because of their poor decision. Because you will be held accountable to fullest measure that can be dealt. KIDS should not be playing with guns nor these two. Praise Jesus and cap your brother. What happened to the 5th commandment: Thou shall honor your Father and Mother? TAKE THE HINT SPREAD YOUR FEARS ELSEWHERE.

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