My First (And Not My Last) Defensive Gun Use

1. Given their modus operandi, I kind of wish you had shot him.

   Seriously … Baseball bats from moving cars? Sounds like attempted murder to me.

   • Yeah, it’s a shame they didn’t press their luck with a Glock drawn on them. “People” like that shouldn’t be given the revolving door treatment.

     • So killing them is a reasonable alternative? You know progressives visit this website, right? You know they’re looking for any reason to shed bad light on the gunner community, right? You two ought to know better. You’re making our community look like murder-hungry monsters. Not okay.

       • The goth couple had multiple counts of armed robbery and assault with a deadly weapon pending against them, and were attempting yet another assault. If someone is incapable of understanding self-defense in that scenario, then their mind was already made up and no amount of censorship in the narrative will change their mind.

       • I’m not murder hungry in the least. I blame the War on Drugs and an overcrowded prison system loaded with people who got thrown in on bullshit drug charges yet somehow it’s acceptable that scumbags like this get to see the light of day. If law enforcement won’t/can’t do its job and repeat violent offenders decide to prey on the unarmed again I’m not going to shed tears if they end up getting a lethal lead injection.

       • You know progressives visit this website, right?

         We do now.

       • Oh my god! Not this crap again.

       • I sense you’ve never heard of hyperbole.

       • If James runs into these two Gothic Murder Hungry people he’s going to wish Tom dropped them both.

   • We had a family friend in V.A. and a bunch of ass hole kids would ride down the street knocking down mailboxes with a bat. My friend got tired of replacing his mailbox so he got an old one and filled it with concrete, so needless to say one broken arm (or maybe two) later, that problem was done and done.

     • Great idea, but what happened when the mailman came and tried to deliver the mail?

       • You could say he was… blocked.

       • we have a winner.

       • Concrete filled mailbox is a great idea. You could leave a slot with styrophome when you poured the concrete so the mailman could still use the mailbox, for letters anyway.

       • Get a large mailbox and a regular size one. Nest them like those Russian dolls, one inside the other, and fill the gap with the concrete. That way, when the mailman opens the door to the large box, there’s still a standard size mailbox inside.

     • And one time outside of Missoula there was a pair that would drive down Hwy 93 at night in an old farm truck and clip the mailboxes, most of which had been there for many years on 4×4 fence posts. After the third rebuild our neighbor got tired of the game and used a 3 inch steel pipe with the box about 36 inches above ground and the other seven feet of pipe underground – he had a well-drilling business on the side.

       They bent the post, but they never came back.

       • My neighbor’s last name was Duck. He had a large wooden duck cutout hanging from his mailbox. After several years, some youth decided to go “duck hunting.” After he replaced 2 ducks, the third was cut out of steel plate. A few nights later, he heard a distinctive “gong” and later found the remains of a baseball bat near the mailbox. Problem solved. Never heard if anyone suffered injury but that had to sting the wrists.

2. That you serpico??

   • 1+

3. A thought: Is not having a backstop in a DGU going to stop you from pulling the trigger? Yea, no one wants an innocent person harmed in defending themselves…but if you pull the trigger it’s because you have no other option…I wonder if it’s me or them(and possibly someone beyond) am I going down for it…

   Thoughts?

   • Depends on the backstop, I’d guess.

     Your kid’s bedroom vs a bad guy’s accomplice, say.

     A reason to carry hollow points.

     • The bad guys accomplice is the best back stop I can think of.

       • 😀

   • Depends on what it is

   • Regardless of how threatened you feel, you are still responsible for every piece of lead that exits your muzzle in criminal, civil, and eternal courts. Backstop is a serious consideration.

     • I thought that in most cases if an innocent is harmed during the commission of a felony by an armed citizen that death/injury gets tacked into the criminals charges.

       • Depends on the jurisdiction, your lawyer, prosecutor, judge, 12 random people who had nothing better to do that pull jury duty, the rantings of your victim’s relatives, and then when that’s all done they sue you in civil court too. And the whole mess starts over again.

     • I was afraid the backstop was going to be the school playground.

4. The fact that these losers were out on the street a week later is by far the most depressing part of this story.

   • Word. I kinda hope they picked on the wrong victims later that day and ended up in roadside graves. Coupla dicks. Cool story.

     • I don’t kinda hope, I do hope. I don’t lightly wish death upon people, but someone who makes a career of assaulting with deadly force? Yeah…I want them to die.

       • “Some men just need killin’.” — James Butler “Wild Bill” Hickok

   • Yeah, I thought the same thing. I wonder if those two graduated to bigger crimes.
     They probably voted for Obama twice.

5. That picture. OMG. That picture. You looked like Jeff Foxworthy’s less successful cousin. I’ll bet your cover was never even questioned by the bad guys.

   • All Jeff Foxworthy’s cousins are less successful.

     • I don’t even know who Jeff Foxworthy is yet I find that statement to be true.

       • “You might be a lolinski if …..” 🙂

       • “… you don’t get a reference to a comedian from the 70’s”.

         First time I have been featured in one of those. I read a bit about him and I must admit he is funny.

         Now would it be copying if I made a similar series of jokes called “you might be an immigrant if…”? Nothing against immigrants, am one myself, just thinking out loud.

       • Comedian from the SEVENTIES?!

         Did they not have comedy central where you were living? He’s been big from the 90’s all the way til recently.

       • Comedy Central?

         I prefer to watch comedians live or to watch their specials.

       • Foxworthy is still doing his standup act on tour to this day, IIRC. He and his other three business partners have an ongoing Blue Collar Comedy tour that is, to my knowledge, still performing. He also has the occasional guest appears on the Blue Collar Comedy channel on satellite radio. He is definitely still a working comic.

         The best thing about Foxworthy, Engval, Larry TCG and White is that while they are known for their incredibly catchy segments, they are all solid comics with a lot of material. Sure, everyone remembers “… you might be a redneck” but that is five minutes of a hour show.

6. ‘The truly funny part is that they thought I was a drug dealer and I might have some money or drugs.’

   Because everyone knows that drug dealers are felons and can’t have firearms. That makes them easy prey, right?

   • And drug dealers never fight to protect their illegal assets.

   • They’re lucky he was a cop. I think a dealer would have just pulled the trigger. I wonder if they ever found a drug dealer to rob? People like that tend to repeat their mistakes.

7. Thanks for the interesting slice of real life in America today, Tom. You couldn’t ask for much better proof that when you go undercover, you’re very convincing.

   It seems as though most jurisdiction are letting minor-league violent criminals bail, hoping the criminal will leave the jurisdiction, else violate bail terms which makes for an easy no-bail lockup, legally speaking. In other words, “what’s a little more predation on the law-abiding population? We’ve got a tight budget!”

   • Court orders. Jails get “full” and the judges let them out.

     Arrest them cheap and stack them deep is what’s called for. But judges don’t listen to me.

   • Here in California we call it “jail overcrowding.” If it was “just” a burglary or a drug bust, they are out by morning in order to leave enough room for violent offenders. These early releases became so used to not showing up for their court dates that we have a “County Most Wanted” section of the local paper, posting pictures. (Seems to be having he desired effect.) Adding to the crowd are actual prison inmates assigned to the County jail because of prison overcrowding that has been enjoined by a federal court judicial panel. Allegedly nonviolent or at least less violent offenders, most of these people are meth addicts who go right back to their old habits and the burglaries to support it.

   • Here in the Philly MSA arrested suspect make bail. Then, often enough, they cross the river to Camden. When they get picked up, Camden calls Philly. And Philly says “we won’t be picking him up.” The reason? It’s too expensive. Philly has other more pressing problems and budget woes, and besides, “he’s not our problem anymore.” It is a common reality in the big east coast cities and, I’m told, in many other jurisdictions. Naturally part of the cost problem is the cost of a jail cell, but hey, the guy’s already in jail because he’s in Camden, N.J.

8. Ummm…am I the only one creeped out by this guy? I had friends go to prison for a bag of Mexican pot in the ’70’s. And it was NARCS like him doing it. DGU? More like police state. Yeah I’m pro 2A,conservative,right & wrong guy now but 35 years ago my life would have been wrecked by a guy like him. Just another COP with a gun.

   • Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

   • Yes, you are the only one.

     Thanks for the interesting read, Tom.

     • I’m talking about 35-40 years ago. He was just enforcing the law…is that anything like Odumbo care,gun bans,magazine limits or Connecticut crap? All these are laws. You takes yer chances. Hope some undercover government agent doesn’t bust you for a “banned” gun.

   • Maybe he would have ruined your life over a bag of pot. But this case wasn’t about harassing potheads. This is about two scumbags who wanted to take others property by force, force with a high likelyhood of being lethal. Side note, I do think pot should be legalized, but in the mean time you take your chances if you want to smoke.

   • I wrote something below hinting at same.
     And to respond to Hannibal, I guess some people in Connecticut are “playing stupid games”

     • Don’t compare the people in ct to some dumb shit thugs beating people with blunt objects to rob them, it gives the thugs to much dignity.

   • Bullshit! Police should be respected. This guy was trying to bring down proper dealers, a good deed. And not to mention, a pro 2A cop? Now that’s new. But seriously, have some respect. I’d like to see you go undercover for that long. Tough job.

     • “Bullshit! Police should be respected.”

       No, bullshit police shouldn’t be respected. Ha, ha. But seriously, the only police who should be respected are the ones who are respectable, that is, those who FIRST respect the Constitution, constitutional law, and their employers, the people who have hired them to “protect and serve.”

     • Respect is earned. Some police — like Tom in Oregon — should be respected.

       • Thank you Ralph.
         That means a lot.

         • I think this one is probably OK:
           youtu.be/bSywiwgC4Dk

       • Agree with Ralph. Great story, Tom.

       • Aye, I’ve gained respect for Tom in Oregon through reading his posts. Undoubtedly, him and I might disagree on some or even many subjects.

         Thanks for posting your story, Tom in Oregon. 🙂

9. They should really call this “The Truth About The Judicial System.” I’d like to hear from some current/former attorneys on the subject of why it is that repeat offenders keep cycling into and out of jail.

   • I would say that it’s at least partially because there are millions of stupid laws, and therefore it’s impossible to keep everyone who “should be” in jail kept in jail.

     Abolish crimes with no victim – for which all parties consent (e.g. drug possession/sale/use for adults, gun possession/sale, consensual adult prostitution, gambling, etc.) – and that will free up some jail/prison space so that those who actually harm others (robbers, rapists, etc.) can stay in prison longer. It’ll also give many of those who are screwed by the system (as a conviction for a crime hampers one’s ability to find decent work) a better chance to make something of themselves.

   • why it is that repeat offenders keep cycling into and out of jail

     Because there’s always an election day right around the corner.

   • Abusers of serious drugs, not pot mind you, but meth, heroin, or crack, cannot stay employed because of the effects of their addiction, and welfare doesn’t pay enough to support their habit. So they commit crimes (burglary, shoplifting, car theft, armed robbery). They go to prison and get clean, but once out, they rejoin the same old group of friends doing the same old drugs, and committing the same old crimes to support their inability to overcome their addiction. If you know anything about alcoholics and how hard it is for them to get straight and stay straight, the storyline for drug addiction is the same.

     Others are simply serial or career criminals who can’t get jobs, don’t really want jobs because the only jobs they can get pay crap, and prefer to make their living as criminals, stealing, selling drugs, etc. They cycle in and out of the system for most of their lives, until “Three Strikes” or a first degree murder rap finally put them away for good, they die, or they become too old and too disabled to continue.

10. Was the undercover work to arrest people where their crimes had no complainants?
    Or to break up violent gang crimes?

    • I was into meth labs and cooks. They were pretty bad here in the early 90’s.

      • Ah, the especially crazy ones.

11. Thanks for your service!
    I am no good at UC work, cannot tell a story well!

12. Wow! Just Wow! That is one hell of DGU!

13. great article Tom in Oregon. do i get to anticipate another article of your second dgu?

14. So, you made your living as a paid liar. Undercover operations should be banned under both the 4th and 5th Amendments. On top of that it should be a capital crime for a government employee to lie to any citizen for any reason.

    • Better to be a paid liar than an unpaid mor0n, eh Chris?

      • Do you really believe that, or did it just sound smart?

        • If Chris believes what he types here, Chris is a very disturberd person. I believe the internet is like alcohol. It brings out the real person. Which is scary in some cases.

    • So that’s how we solve the population explosion, eh, make lying a capital crime. We’d kill off half the country in the first year. Lie on your taxes? BOOM, two to the back of the skull. Embellish your resume? ZAP! Cheat on your wife? Off with your head!

      When are you going to realize, Chris, that the main things governments do in international relations is lie to one another in order to gain an advantage; and our most effective Presidents have been the best liars. What they say about lawyers is even more true for politicians; politicians are paid liars. How can you tell that politicians are lying? Their lips are moving.

    • Hi Mike, first thanks for the work arnuod , still dont understand why Microsoft didnt change it , because your are able to select domain local security groups when grant send-as permissions.But i got a small other issue with exchange 2010, i am using the domain local security group to set grant permissions to a shared mailbox. for a unknow reason the attribute msExchDelegateListLink of the shared mailbox does not get filled in. so users who are member of that group does not get the shared mailbox automatically in their outlook 2010. if i add the permissions per user the attribute get filledin within a few minutes and trhe users sees the shared mailbox in their outlook after 3 min. any help is greatley appriciated

15. Don’t listen to the haters, Tom. Good story, good decision making.

    • This…TTAG does attract certain fringe elements, just ignore them.

      • Oh it certainly does. 😉 yet on this issue I am behind you all the way.

16. “this gal is riding my ass like Freddie Mercury in a San Francisco bath house.”

    Oh, puh-leeeze!

    • I was wondering why there was some random homophobia thrown in there for no apparent reason.

      • I was aiming more at just the purpleness of the prose – it read like a dimestore pulp detective story. But I can see how my comment could be taken either way.

17. Laws against victimless crimes are evil. What kind of “crime” do you need undercover narcs to get evidence for? Any real crime has a victim, who will complain. If no one is hurt, no crime has been committed. Going after people who do stuff that Der Fuehrer thinks they “shouldn’t” do, is itself, evil. Overriding anyone’s Free Will is evil.

18. I’m not being at all critical, as I think it was handled superbly, but I’m curious if backing the car up was an option. In states with a duty to retreat, would this have been potentially a requirement?

    • I maybe should have said something about that.
      Backing up would have put me closer to the grade school.
      This happened very fast.

      • Just one more thing, I’m not quite sure that I got it, and if I did, I’d like to see it repeated: He approached you, you drew and pointed it, said, “Drop it,” and he dropped it and the rest was routine?

        That would be another example of just SHOWING one stopping a crime, right?

19. Thanks, Tom! Please keep them coming.

20. My old man was on the job for 34 years, at least once and possibly a few more times I was with him when he had to spring into action and pull his firearm. I thank God on a fairly regular basis he is alright after his career and continues to be alright, as only the children of police officers and similiar (Military/firemen & fire women etc.) can understand.

    In your case, good sir, Good on ya, and glad you got out okay, but you should have shot ’em, been doing the rest of us a big favor, Wiccans ain’t never up to any good no how!

21. Cool story

22. Remind me not to move to Oregon! Around here, the goths are actually the nice kids that have careers and responsibilities.

    Glad you didn’t have to drop the striker on them. That’s a nightmare no one needs. Training works.

23. Thanks for sharing.

24. This is what is wrong with American criminal justice system, revolving doors. If the justice system could learn to pick its fights and keep the truly bad guys in jail. Just one reason I will legalize marijuana.In title 18 § 1001. The only gun control law there should be is that criminals can’t have any firearms. Thanks for your vote, pass the word. mrpresident2016.com

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