A U.S. Ambassador was murdered by an angry mob of Islamic protestors—-sorry, terrorists and the fact that U.S. soldiers carry weapons with minuscule serial numbers referring to Biblical passages is a big deal? Yes. Yes it is. Again. Still. “Nearly three years later — despite the military’s assertion that is making ‘good progress’ — the code remains on many rifles deploying to Afghanistan,” usnews.nbcnews.com reports, “which some soldiers argue is endangering their lives by reinforcing suspicions that the United States is waging a crusade against Muslims.” Which soldiers? OMG. One unnamed soldier in Fort Hood? The base where terrorist (and U.S. Army Major) Nidal Hasan shot 42 people, killing 13; and a soldier shot a comrade to cure his hiccups? As Moonshine7102 asked, is there something in the water there? Brace yourself . . .
“I honestly believe that this is a dangerous situation. It literally could be a matter of life and death for a soldier if he fell into the wrong hands,” said an Army officer who spoke to NBC News from Fort Hood, Texas. “The fact that combatant commanders are not following (rules set by Department of Defense) commanders is very disturbing to me.”
The officer, who asked not to be named out of fear of reprisal from commanders, provided a photograph, taken on Tuesday, of the code on an M-4 rifle assigned to a soldier who is slated to deploy to Afghanistan in coming weeks.
Bullshit. A U.S. soldier gets captured by an enemy combatant, his [far-sighted] captors scrutinize a serial number on the poor schmuck’s ACOG and then decide to execute him? I honestly believe that was a made-up quote. Here’s one that isn’t.
The Military Religious Freedom Foundation, a nonprofit group that aggressively pursues the separation of church and state in defense institutions, first flagged the issue in late 2009 after receiving scores of complaints from active duty military members.
“It’s constitutionally noxious,” said foundation president Mikey Weinstein. “It’s an embarrassment and makes us look exactly like the tenth incarnation of the crusades which launches 8 million new jihadist recruiting videos.”
Crusade. War on Terror. His point being? The soldiers don’t like it!
Weinstein of MRFF said he has received more than 2,800 complaints from troops about the Jesus rifles — now even more widely known to Afghans and Iraqis, in part because of the controversy.
Iraqis “absolutely” know that it’s a Jesus rifle, said the Fort Hood officer, based on his experience.
I’m a Jew. If a serial number referring to a Christian text enrages our enemies, good! If our troops don’t see that as a good thing, bad! Hang on; what are we talking about here?
The code stamped into the metal of the soldier’s ACOG (Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight) ends with the model number with “JN8:12.” which refers to the New Testament passage, John 8:12, which reads: “Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
Is that it? Seriously?
Lest we forget, the 9/11 hijackers were told to meditate on the Koran. Specifically, 8.12 (“cast terror into the hearts of those who are bent on denying the truth; strike, then, their necks!”) and 9.5 (“God instructs his Muslim followers to kill unbelievers, to capture them, to ambush them.”).
I say fight fire with fire. Is that Biblical? It should be. And I wouldn’t mind seeing it engraved on the side of an Army rifle either. Or a serial number referring to a violent Old Testament passage. Or, why the hell not, the Koran.
[Click here to read James Grant’s review of the Trijicon ACOG]
That we’re even discussing this as a potential problem shows just how deeply the ridiculous Muslim faith has infiltrated and the damage it can do. It needs to be rooted out in all its fundamental forms, which are not compatible with the modern world in any way.
agreed, religion has no place in a modern society in the 21st century
+1 Let’s leave the myths where they belong, in storybooks.
If anyone is interested, ‘fighting fire with fire,’ it’s not biblical. It’s origin is in Shakespeare’s King John, and it’s a phrase built for this site. It refers to countering violence with violence to end it:
Be stirring as the time; be fire with fire;
Threaten the threatener and outface the brow
Of bragging horror
Yes, there were primitive firearms in Shakespeare’s day- he was using ‘fire’ the same way we do- gunfire.
finally, people with some common-f–king-sense
to all the previous 3 posts +1000000000000000000
> If a serial number referring to a Christian text enrages our enemies, good!
What is your definition of “enemies?” Does it include Kuwaitis? Saudis? The average Iraqi in the street? I think we’re offending not just our “enemies” but our ostensible allies too.
Yes, allyfriend. Still. . .
Appeasement isn’t a strategy. It’s slow motion suicide.
I have to disagree here. The calls to censor some low budget video of Mohammed because it’s ‘offensive’ that’s appeasement and it’s as cowardly as its futile and self defeating. But in the same amendment that protects free speech it is enshrined that there will be no state sanctioned religion. You cannot have it both ways and I would think that on a site full of such ardent believers in the constitution that would be an easily accepted point.
The only way you can ensure freedom of worship is through a secular government that takes no sides. However small and minuscule this is about the government appearing to take a side. The arguments about increased danger to troops are bullshit but that doesn’t make the biblical inscriptions right. You can’t make exceptions on this kind of thing, no matter how small. While some troops who are Jewish or Muslim or atheist or Sikh or whatever may not care about the inscriptions there are others to whom it is an imposition of another faith on their own. The minority, no matter how small, does matter. The US government should have no part of this kind of nonsense. So burn all the Korans you want and keep the Bible verse off of the scopes.
With respect, you have a great thing going on here at TTAG.
Children are NOT ALLOWED to say a prayer while on public school grounds and we’re supposed to be worried about a tiny code on a rifle scope? If prohibiting children from saying prayers isn’t an example of the state meddling in the religious affairs of Americans I don’t know what is.
CinSC, which public schools? I’m interested, not trying to be snarky. Two wrongs don’t make a right with this one.
There have been cases where children weren’t allowed to pray, not as official policy, but by overzealous teachers or principals. Jusdaclasix said even minuscule examples should be taken into consideration, and… I lost my composure a bit. Not the best example, my bad.
But there are better examples, such as the current furor over Catholic hospitals possibly being forced to provide abortions. Compared to this, a reference on a rifle scope is hardly something to get exercised about.
CinSC, There’s nothing that prohibits students from saying prayers on school grounds. Nothing. That’s why Bible study groups and clubs like Fellowship of Christian Athletes exist and are massive.
What is rightfully prohibited is for the public school itself, via the leadership and employees, to lead prayers and promote a specific religion. They are agents of the state and have no business espousing a particular religious doctrine. The kids, however, are free to pray (or not pray) all they want.
As for Catholic hospitals, I’m unaware of any law requiring them to provide abortions. Are you sure you’re not mixing it up with birth control?
Yeah, you’re not wrong that religious freedom requires we keep government from endorsement of a particular religion, but that doesn’t mean you can’t make a reference to a book just because a religion is founded on it. Would people be so upset if it referenced some stupid Archie comic that said essentially the same thing? Sometimes a book is just a book and context is still important.
The (weak) reference seems to be equating the scope with reliable salvation- kind of a ‘stick with ACOG and you’ll come out of this OK’ message. Also, the passage has something about light- a thing I understand optics guys may have a hardon for.
Yeah, you’re not wrong that religious freedom requires we keep government from endorsement of a particular religion, but that doesn’t mean you can’t make a reference to a book just because a religion is founded on it. Would people be so upset if it referenced some stupid Archie comic that said essentially the same thing? Sometimes a book is just a book and context is still important.
The (weak) reference seems to be equating the scope with reliable salvation- kind of a ‘stick with ACOG and you’ll come out of this OK’ message. Where the quote originated is basically irrelevant. Also, the passage has something about light- a thing I understand optics guys may have a hardon for.
Saudi Arabia is not a US ally any more than France is. If that regime is ever toppled the people will hate us more than Iran does.
Cinsc, children are not prohibited from praying on school grounds. Never were. There also not prohibited from carrying a bible or any of that. Schools, however, are prohibited from having school led prayer, no matter which religions prayer it is.
Not as official policy, no. See above comment^
High school coaches have been fired for having a team prayer before or after a game with the athletes who wanted to participate in it.
For whatever reason, the board doesn’t like “”, my point above being that ally /= friend. Saudi Arabia is not a friend, but it is an ally. It is an ally of convenience, rather than conviction. But we can work with enlightened self interest.
I still don’t think they are an ally. They have their own reasons for wanting Iran to be contained, other than that I don’t see where we have any common interests. Maybe in the sense that they like exporting jihad and Wahhabism and creating terrorists, and our military industrial complex like buying and selling weapons to blow up those terrorists.
France saved our ass the in Revolution. France also fought on our side in two world wars. Just because De Gaulle didn’t want France to be an American vassal state doesn’t mean the French are our enemies. Looking back they were right to be critical of the Second Iraq War, too.
They did not fight on our side in WW2 (see Operation Torch) and they did not stand with us in the Cold War. They helped with our Revolutionary War for continental reasons and we were at “quasi-war” with them not long afterwards. We helped them in WW1 for reasons that I was never very clear on. They are a sovereign country with their own interests. I am not trying to bash them, I just don’t think they are allies of the US.
How many 9/11 hijackers were Saudis? Their oppressive, human rights violating govt may be our allies, but their citizens are certainly not.
The citizens are not our allies because where friends with the oppressive, human rights violating government.
“As far as I can tell, you’re fighting over who’s got the better imaginary friend.”
–Yasser Arafat, regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict.
+1
The incentive structure continually being put into place by our media, policymakers, and opinion-shapers is… odd, to say the least.
Clearly, Christians need to get their burnings and beheadings on if they want to be taken seriously as a religion.
Yes. The same way southern Christians rooted out the evil in black churches as they fire bombed them during the civil rights movement. Or maybe the same way the KKK( a domestic terrorist group) uses Christianity as a front for racial and religious hatred. Or just maybe how the Aryan Nation ( a domestic terrorist group) uses Christianity as a from for drug dealing and violence. Sadly, a SMALL group of Americans have used religion to justify their evil actions yet we do not attack the Christian faith. Oh well. God bless white Americans and nobody else!!
Airports sell tickets to the Middle East where I am confident you won’t find any of the problems you listed. You won’t find an tolerance or other religions besides the State Religion too but that would be your problem.
BS. The Christian faith is the only religion being attacked. Those southern church burnings were carried out by people who identified more with the democrat party than Christianity.
You’re absolutely right though, a small group do use their religion to justify their evil, yet we do not attack Islam.
The KKK was not just some ordinary domestic terrorist group, they were the terrorist arm of the Democratic Party.
You can’t possibly believe that. During their heyday, politicians from both parties packed their membership. It was virtually a requirement to get elected!
What he’s saying is true. Most of the racist politicians in the south during the 1960’s were Democrats. I’m referring to guys like Orval Faubus, Robert Byrd, Strom Thurmond and Fielding Wright.
imagine being this stupid. good job jamaaaaal
This is completely stupid. I had to waste an entire weeks worth of my time in the Marine Corps as part of a working party that had to grind the biblical reference off of all the RCO’s in my battalion. I secretly hoped that the vibration from the dremel tool would ruin all the optics so the government could learn a lesson about wasting valuable time that could be used for training.
I realize that it would waste even more money to replace all those optics but I was pretty disgruntled about it.
Trijicon is a private company based in a free country. They can put whatever they want on their products. If the military doesn’t like what they put on their products, they can ether put up with it or discontinue use and all further orders of Trijicon’s products. Besides that it’s very minor complaint and I’d classify it as malarky!
Exactly. Do we now have to do background checks on the owners kids church of choice before they get a contract? Make the best product and get the deal. Land of the never offensive, home of the politically correct.
Land of the soft-feet, for fear of offending anyone in the slightest…
But… that’s what they want…. for us all to bow and cower in fear of offending someone, so we do nothing but surrender ALL our rights
This is all pretty ridiculous, I think that there more important things that the public and military should focus on.
Let me try to understand this. They are concerned about a miniscule reference to the bible in the serial number on the scope of rifle being used to shoot the enemy upsetting the enemy more than the fact they are being shot at? And then instead of holding a POW for a months and torturing them prior to execution our friends the enemy will instead just skip to the execution?
And this is also some unconstitutional violation of separation of church and state? I know many want to banish religion from our land but this is ridiculous. People are aware the military has chaplains, right?
James Madison was against Congress and the military having chaplains. So am I.
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_religions64.html
“Is the appointment of Chaplains to the two Houses of Congress consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of religious freedom?
In strictness the answer on both points must be in the negative. The Constitution of the U. S. forbids everything like an establishment of a national religion. The law appointing Chaplains establishes a religious worship for the national representatives, to be performed by Ministers of religion, elected by a majority of them; and these are to be paid out of the national taxes. Does not this involve the principle of a national establishment, applicable to a provision for a religious worship for the Constituent as well as of the representative Body, approved by the majority, and conducted by Ministers of religion paid by the entire nation.”
and
“Better also to disarm in the same way, the precedent of Chaplainships for the army and navy, than erect them into a political authority in matters of religion. The object of this establishment is seducing; the motive to it is laudable. But is it not safer to adhere to a right pinciple, and trust to its consequences, than confide in the reasoning however specious in favor of a wrong one. Look thro’ the armies & navies of the world, and say whether in the appointment of their ministers of religion, the spiritual interest of the flocks or the temporal interest of the Shepherds, be most in view: whether here, as elsewhere the political care of religion is not a nominal more than a real aid. If the spirit of armies be devout, the spirit out of the armies will never be less so; and a failure of religious instruction & exhortation from a voluntary source within or without, will rarely happen: and if such be not the spirit of armies, the official services of their Teachers are not likely to produce it. It is more likely to flow from the labours of a spontaneous zeal. The armies of the Puritans had their appointed Chaplains; but without these there would have been no lack of public devotion in that devout age.”
“James Madison was against Congress and the military having chaplains. So am I.”
Well I support the military chaplains. Who wins?
Congress isn’t creating the Church of the US by invoking prayers or having faith among it’s members. I’m not sure I understand this need to purge faith.
I’m all for the free exercise of religion but I’m against the government using my tax money to promote religion.
I don’t know how many of you have actually been in the military but you want chaplains there. I’m a christian (specifically a Morman now, but didn’t become one until I left the Corps) and I can tell you as troop welfare, they are indispensable. They help those of us with faith in the military, which allows us to be able to perform our functions better. You want the troops to be as healthy as we can be in times of conflict and chaplains help us get there. I respect everyone else’s opinion on religion but the chaplain function is more for troop welfare than fulfilling religious faith. If you don’t like religion or have a different faith, that’s fine by me but I think we need to make sure all of those in the military are taken care of with their chaplains, counselors, and family services as they are vital to us performing the best in times of conflict.
I’ve been deployed 3 times to Afghanistan with an ACOG on my M4 and nobody that’s actually there cares (Coalition, Afghan or insurgent). It may be different in Iraq but in Afghanistan most of their news comes from the Friday sermon in the mosque, this isn’t on their radar (a lot of other things are). It is a made up controversy by the media and anti religious groups in the US (and swallowed by those issuing the orders to remove the numbers), basically people who don’t have a clue about the nature of the fight, the insurgents or what’s important.
Have to love the standard response by GS! the good ole “if you don’t like the threat of getting lynched in the south then move back to Africa.” it’s been a bit since I’ve heard that one. Reminds me of the good ole days of sending German shepherd dogs out to attack kids as they marched down the street so they could have the right to drink out of any water fountain they wanted…… Ahhhh those were the days!!!
It was also 40+ years ago, time to realize you live in the present.
Yeah, those mideast countries are so accepting of other faiths, they put us to shame.
That’s why nobody thinks of those countries as bastions of freedom. They don’t have it and in some aspects, like freedom of speech and separation of church and state, clearly don’t want it.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/09/27/bombing-by-sudanese-government-at-bustling-marketplace-kills-1-injures-6/?test=latestnews
I think you need to look elsewhere for the kind of violence you claim is so rampant in the US> Like in a predominantly muslim country.
Direct your advice about living right to them, Jamaal.
Robert,
Is it appeasement if it’s your ally?
I ask again, what do you mean by “enemies?” If you mean the entire Muslim world I follow your point. I’ll state that trying to subjegate 2 billion people will end poorly, but I do follow your point.
If, OTOH we don’t intend to defeat the entire Muslim world, if we can in truth have allies (not friends, but at least allies) then I think there’s a problem in your reasoning.
Odd, this should have been a reply to Robert’s 14:35 reply to me.
I raised an objection to this whole nonsense of removing the citations earlier. Got dinged over it (poor me 🙂 ). Thought is showed what a gutless company Trijicon is. Why would the military be crying out over this? It ain’t a good sign. Hmmm….
Should we apologize for making fun of the Imperial Japanese leaders back in the day? Including the Emperor, who was considered divine by the Japanese? Oh, how insensitive of the U.S. How primitive we must have been to have those posters with the big toothed bespectacled Emperor…Yeah I just guess the WWII Marines and GIs were of a different cut than the current politically correct crowd. Again its not a good sign of where we are in this country. It might be worth a second look at who we have let in the military. You only need Google the topic, to see the various fringe groups that have established themselves among the ranks, that have support structures and advocates both in and outside. I believe it is part of the whole volunteer only decision back when.
I love that a few months ago people where going crazy over the whole “Brony” thing (Soldiers that like to watch the TV show “My Little Pony”) saying that our enemies would see our soldiers as weak and kill us more viciously. Now they’re saying the opposite, That we’re gonna piss them off and now they’re gonna kill us more viscously as a result. These people just don’t know how they want to treat our enemies. It’s almost like no matter what we do, They’ll still try to kill us.
1) I think the Trijicon controversy has been blown way out of proportion. I was a soldier and even after years of Muslim culture training, I didn’t hear about this until after I was out. In college I was a Middle Eastern Studies major and never heard about it.
2) I’m a Christian and if I want religion in my guns that’s my call. And since I don’t, I don’t buy Trijicon. Religious beliefs are like genitals: you can have yours and that that’s ok. Just don’t try to force it on me.
I don’t t believe religion has a place officially in our military or government. Trijicon is free to express whatever they want however, the US govt is their customer and if they ask for no religious reference’s I think it’s in Trijicons best interest to comply. The idea that we are fighting fire with fire is ridiculous, no one fights a war to only match the enemy, we fighting in the name of freedom, democracy and all of our other principles which is a higher standard.
My solution: Going forward new sights should be free of religious texts. I
Trijicon is free to express whatever they want however, the US govt is their customer and if they ask for no religious reference’s I think it’s in Trijicons best interest to comply. The idea that we are fighting fire with fire is ridiculous, no one fights a war to only match the enemy, we fighting in the name of freedom, democracy and all of our other principles which is a higher standard.
Uhm Kay.. I had no idea it was even a reference to that, but who the hell cares!
For some reason I doubt any village soldier isolated in the hills somewhere knows about it or even cares to be honest.
If those little numbers piss off the Muslims, wait ’til they get ahold of a CrossBreed Supertuck. Oh the humanity!
40+ years ago. People are still alive that suffered bites man!! As a black man I own the truth that we have a lot to improve as a race. As a Muslim I own the truth that we have a lot to improve in our social settings. As an American I own the truth we have a lot to improve as a nation. It’s time for white Christian Americans to do the same and stop acting as if their religion and race is without short comings as well.
I truly don’t see why the passage is not found to be offensive by Christians. Youre linking Christ to a tool that will be used to kill. As a Muslim I find it very offensive when ignorant Muslims look to pull isolated lines out of context from the Quran to justify violence.
It’s a scope designed to sight a rifle with. Doesn’t mean it’s only used for killing, but there u go again with a mental filter.
Take the lecture about “white Christian Americans” someplace else. We don’t need someone telling us to clean our act up.
Jamaal, the reason nobody cares is because it’s a Christian reference, and Christianity is the majority religion in the US. If Trijicon or some other company put coded references to the Koran or Buddhist scriptures on the scope, the outrage would be unending. There would be demagogues calling for heads to roll, politicians calling for Congressional investigations, and the company would certainly be blacklisted from any future contracts.
What else is is used for besides killing? Come on…. still waiting……
And there are millions of black and white people alive today who remember how loving southern white Christian were during the civil rights movement.
When you appease a vile and basely evil ideology, you accomplish nothing but weakening yourself. The ideology that demands appeasement will never rest until you’re totally subdued.
Just ask gun-grabbers.
If you’ve been taken alive by those sweet gentlemen who so nobly follow the geneva conventions codes on humane treatment of prisoners by all means don’t piss them off with the serial number on your rifle. They might not allow you to play with the unicorns and use harsh language in your presence.
What a load of horseshit.
Thank god WWII wasn’t fought like this!
Absolutely. Folks had more common courtesy and kept their religion to themselves.
When did the argument over this turn into “our enemies won’t lile it?” I may be reading it wrong, but it seems to me the complaint is from OUR soldiers who don’t like being issued equipment with biblical references on it, presumably because their lives are entrusted to equipment made by the kind of people who believe that that sort of thing will help.
I won’t believe that until I see jpegs of the actual letters.
Many Muslims believe that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are really efforts by the West to promote Christianity and destroy Muslims. It’s obvious nonsense, but many believe it nonetheless.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a soldier to believe he might be treated worse or killed if the enemy discovers Christian references on their equipment. It feeds into the narrative they believe and gives them even more reason to act inhumane.
How does being pro bible automatically mean that you are anti-muslim?
And the cross is a symbol that was later adopted by Christianity. Many legitimate branches do not even use the symbol due to the fact their is no evidence that Christ was killed on a “t” shaped device. Some scholars say it was an X. Some say he was killed on a tree. We don’t know. I for one like the crossbreed super tuck. It’s a great holster. I have no problem with it bearing a “cross.”
I remember reading something about prohibiting the free exercise of religion in our country somewhere. When I was in the service I wouldn’t have wanted any religious statements on my rifle, nor would I buy a weapon now with anything like that on it. So I would say that’s prohibiting my free exercise of religion. It seems a little strange for a group that fights so hard for the second amendment would seem not to care about the first.
And I seem to remember the New Testament was about peace and love. Not that I can speak for Jesus but I would think he might not like quotes from his book on weapons of war.
Right, so now the Idiots / Apologists in our society want our soldiers’ weapons to be PC and Smurfy. Seriously, WTF.
So, you are an Afghan, the US military is in your country dropping bombs, performing midnight raids, blowing things up with Predator Drones, occasionally killing the wrong people and generally raising hell. And somehow someone has persuaded this hypothetical Afghan to be upset about a serial number that references a Christian holy text.
Sure. That passes the sniff test.
If they are close enough to read that serial number, they are Too Close. Shoot them off the end of the gun already.
Amen!
I like how we assume the soldiers behind the acog are Christian and the enemy down range is Muslim. You know, not everyone in the military is Christian. Some are Hindu. Some are atheist. Hell, some might be satanist (you see what I just did there?!). Maybe the soldier looking down the tube might not want a verse on it he/she does not agree with. It’s amazing people on here cannot realize many groups of diverse people fight for our country.
So all the brewhaha is over some digits in the serial number? I’ve never scrutinized a serial number on anything for any hidden messages. I’ve got better things to do that worry about stuff like this. And as to the muslims finding this offensive? I’ve come to the conclusion that they find EVERYTHING in the entire world offensive except the Koran.
NEWSFLASH! Most in Afghanistan (Iraq pretty much shut down) can’t read their own language let alone ours.
that actually facilitates gross misrepresentation and propagandizing by the few educated enough to do so.
Ter#1 – What is this western drivel engraved on this instrument of Satan?
Ter#2 – oh that? Glad you asked. It is an reference to a blasphemous passage from the infidels holy book.
Ter#1 – Which one?
Ter#2 – The one that says Allah is no true God, and Mohammed is a false prophet. I’m paraphrasing of course, but you get the picture.
Trijicon (The company) is owned by followers of Christ, they are choosing to honor God by placing verses on their products in which God (Christ, Jesus, God, all one and the same) makes statements about himself. How is this a problem? Trijicon has had incredible success with their products and their choosing to glorify God and the Word of God is why.
Its a problem because they (US Military) are a customer who for very good reasons wants to remove as much incendiary religious iconography and rhetoric from the hands of would be propagandists, that would use it to recruit additional opposition. It is a rational request. One that Trijicon followed suit with, from what I understand, rather than loose the business. Now why go to all that trouble and effort if you are not going to implement the policies in the first place.
If the US military is so religion neutral, why have they promulgated all kinds of special rules for handling Korans, but make no similar accommodations to other faiths? Do you think that the crazy statements of Nidal Hassan would have been ignored for years had he been preaching violent Christian fundamentalism?
“If you want to know who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”
-Voltaire
Bill, they are trying to kill us. Let our boys ave the best optics and stop getting your panties in a wad.
You engrave whatever the hell you want onto your rifle. If you are sending me, an atheist, into a hostile country of religious fundamentalists, as a representative of a secular State, I would prefer to have my equipment religiously sanitized.
You know what? How about we take your flag away from you also, cause they hate Americans? How about it…..
It’s not about being pansies or PC to me. If they want to put this stuff on their scopes, whatever. But I don’t want the government using my tax money to buy it and endorse a religion as a result.
What if it was a Quranic verse referenced on the scope? Would you be okay with that?
Religion and the state must be completely separate.
I also pay crap load more taxes than you and want it on there so quit your whinning.
Tax payer dollars? Endorsement?
I wasn’t aware in the check list for features, they charged extra for the bible verses. Could you please point me to this.
They didn’t even realize it was there, so how do they endorse it?
Also I find it funny people talk about our “allies” being offended.
Yet you leftists pathetic excuses for humans who will abandon the people that are our try allies. Lets throw Poland to the wolves to appease Russia! Georgia too! Moldova too!
Sell em to the public at a steep discount. I’ll buy 10 or so. I’m dyin for an ACOG
My son had a Trijicon ACOG on his M4 in Iraq. He got a few…it’s a good optic. It helped keep him and others alive, so who gives a f**k what it has on it.
Amen. Glad to hear your kid made it home safe. Screw it trying to be pc to the iraqis.
“If you want to know who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”
-Voltaire
In response to an offensive video Adolf Hitler sends his U-Boats out to ravage the Atlantic…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1583adUqSg
Yawn ..
I’m a Jew. If a serial number referring to a Christian text enrages our enemies, good!
What a racist remark!
The seemingly calculated fawning over Judaism is a bit disconcerting for a gun blog. Just like John Browning is always John MOSES Browning here. I’m sick of Islamic taqiyya, Jewish mesirah, and old world religious psy-ops slinking into gun rights and gun reviews.
Which is all really sad. A lot of top notch authors and commenters gather here. But their brains all turn to mush the second religion comes up. Maybe that’s human nature.
It always astounds me when people who espouse great love for the constitution and the rights enumerated in it, and who hate totalitarianism and dictators, get upset when you tell them that you’d rather not have the government endorse religion. Typically their religion involves worshipping an omnipotent god that is always watching, always judging you (even your thoughts), and offers you only one choice: his way or eternal torture. And you’re supposed to like it, too. That is slavery and sadomasochism of the worst kind.
If you care about the Constitution, maybe you should consider the father of the constitution’s stance against even military chaplains as a violation of the separation of church and state. Or you could just turn off your brain and rant about those “you leftists pathetic excuses for humans.” I’m left-wing? That’s hilarious.
Oh, and to RF: Trijicon could also piss off Muslims by printing a picture of that Danish caricature of Muhammad on the side of their scopes. Remember the one with the bomb for a turban? That one.
In fact they’re far more likely to recognize that than some obscure bible verse reference.
“A jealous lover of human liberty, deeming it the absolute condition of all that we admire and respect in humanity, I reverse the phrase of Voltaire, and say that, if God really existed, it would be necessary to abolish him.”
-Mikhail Bakunin
brilliant post!!!
I do have a small correction to make though,
“Typically their religion involves worshipping an omnipotent god…”
Replace “omnipotent” to “impotent” 😀
“that is always watching, always judging you (even your thoughts), and offers you only one choice: his way or eternal torture. And you’re supposed to like it, too. That is slavery and sadomasochism of the worst kind.”
^this
In response to the above article I refer all those interested to the Muslim Brotherhood Document known as The Project which outlines the infiltration of American Society and Goverment with the intent of using free speach to institute Sharia Law and destroy America. One of the methods specificaly is to use Front Orgs that will denigrate American culture and elevate Islam. All who disagreeare to be called Islamaphobic (an MB invention) and racist.
I haven’t read all the comments on this subject so if I repeat something that has already been said I am sorry. With people saying their believes on religion, the wars, tactics, human nature, and what not they over look the liberties of the company involved. The manufacture can put whatever book verses into the serial numbers as he pleases. It is his choice as the manufacturer. Also the flag upon their shoulder creates a much bigger target and reason to hate than a little known serial number biblical verse upon a scope. I am sorry, but this is not an issue at all and is only being made so by people with too much time upon their hands and too few constructive things to fill their day.
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