How the NRA transformed from marksmen to lobbyists
The Washington Post liked the old days much better when the NRA was dominated by Fudds . . .
Gun control tapped into the turmoil of the 1960s, exposing tensions of race and class, and between rural and urban Americans. The National Rifle Association, founded in 1871, 100 years after the Founding Fathers inked the Second Amendment, began to wield power by amplifying its members’ fears of being disarmed in lawless times, and it used that energy to influence gun legislation in Washington. …
Federal assault-weapons ban expires
After repeated attempts to renew the ban failed, it ended. Despite the ban, there were still ways for people to legally obtain rapid-fire weapons.
Events
Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act
President George W. Bush signed the bill, granting gun manufacturers immunity from civil lawsuits filed over crimes committed with firearms. The NRA called it “a vitally important first step toward ending the anti-gun lobby`s shameless attempts to bankrupt the American firearms industry through reckless lawsuits.”
Events
Patrick claim about state’s loaded gun law accurate
It must have hurt to type those words . . .
Patrick said: “It’s against the law in Texas to let any loaded gun get in the hands of a child.”
A 1995 state law makes it a misdemeanor if a person with criminal negligence fails to secure a loaded gun and a child younger than 17 accesses it or if a person leaves the gun where he or she knew or should have known the child would get it.
We rate this claim True: The statement is accurate and there’s nothing significant missing.
For ‘Columbiners,’ School Shootings Have a Deadly Allure
More and more, this seems to be the consensus, for whatever that’s worth . . .
Interviews with law enforcement officials, educators, researchers, students and a gunman’s mother, as well as a review of court documents, academic studies and the writings of killers and would-be killers, show that the school-shooting copycat syndrome has grown more pervasive and has steadily escalated in recent years. And much of it can be traced back to the two killers at Columbine, previously ordinary high school students who have achieved dark folk hero status — their followers often known as “Columbiners” — in the corners of the internet where their carefully planned massacre is remembered, studied and in some cases even celebrated.
Investigators say school shootings have become the American equivalent of suicide bombings — not just a tactic, but an ideology. Young men, many of them depressed, alienated or mentally disturbed, are drawn to the Columbine subculture because they see it as a way to lash out at the world and to get the attention of a society that they believe bullies, ignores or misunderstands them.
When Guns Are Sold Illegally, A.T.F. Is Lenient on Punishment
It’s almost as if government regulators are inherently incompetent, inefficient or, in some cases, outright corrupt . . .
As they inspect the nation’s gun stores, federal investigators regularly find violations of the law, ranging from minor record-keeping errors to illegal sales of firearms. In the most serious cases, like a sale of a gun to a prohibited buyer, inspectors often recommend that gun dealers lose their licenses.
But that rarely happens. Senior officials at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives regularly overrule their own inspectors, allowing gun dealers who fail inspections to keep their licenses even after they were previously warned to follow the rules, according to interviews with more than half a dozen current and former law enforcement officials and a review of more than 100 inspection reports.
One store was cited for failing to conduct background checks before selling a gun. Another store owner told investigators he actively tried to circumvent gun laws. One threatened an A.T.F. officer, and another sold a gun to a customer who identified as a felon. All were previously cited by the A.T.F. In each instance, supervisors downgraded recommendations that the stores’ licenses be revoked and instead let them stay open.
School Shooters May Soon Come Face-to-Face with Armed Vet
Part of Gov. Greg Abbott’s school security proposals . . .
Abbott said those with the most training in keeping Americans safe can be a great resource for Texas schools.
“Texas retired and off-duty peace officers already have extensive firearms and emergency response training — and many would be willing and able to protect Texas campuses,” Abbott’s plan said.
“Texas should authorize schools to prioritize recruitment and hiring of such personnel to protect their campuses and their student bodies, faculty, employees and guests. Hiring should prioritize individuals with the most applicable skill sets (i.e., former police, sheriffs and constables).”
‘He’s going for my gun’: Utah truck driver stops man wrestling Wyoming trooper
The attacker had 74 pounds of marijuana in his car . . .
“I put my brakes on, and I jump out and by this time, the trooper is on his back and the guy is on top of him. The trooper saw me running over and as soon as I got up to him, he says, ‘He’s going for my gun.’”
Phillips says the trooper and Roberts both hand their hands on the trooper’s gun.
Roberts might have grabbed it, if not for what Phillips did next.
“So I just came around behind him and just reached around and put my arm right there and I held it with my other hand and I stood up and I just went back,” he said. “And as I came back, he just came back with me and just fell right on top of me.”
Vets. Not just retired cops. Both would be an asset in protecting schools and their contents. I would do it for no cost and provide my own firearms and ammo. Squads of volunteer military vets, just what the doctor ordered.
I’d add a few caveats to that. . .
Many ‘vets’ are NOT ‘combat vets;’ Many more ‘qualified’ with a rifle and a pistol in basic training, and never touched one for the rest of their careers, than were combat infantry. That’s not to denigrate the service of non-combat military veterans, or folks that fly or steer ships, but a Navy clerk-typist isn’t a trained urban-warfare specialist, and wouldn’t be any more useful than your mom in a gunfight–not to criticize your mom, who may be highly trained, but still. . .
So, it might have to be limited to ‘combat arm’ veterans who know which end of a firearm to point at the classroom door.
Also not to denigrate military service, but modern combat in the areas our veterans have served is not quite the same as the atmosphere in a high school in a non-inner-city locale; The skills an infantry soldier or Marine uses in Fallujah are not necessarily applicable to Des Moines High.
I have seen people hear complain about the ‘militarization’ of their local police, and how modern cops seem to be just a tad on the ‘harsh’ side of ‘strict’ at times; A LOT of this is a result of soldiers being recruited as cops, and not being able to make the transition properly between a military ‘enforcement’ mind-set and a ‘civilian’ one. The mere ability to handle a firearm, to shoot accurately, and to make quick decisions in ‘combat,’ does not a school ‘resource officer’ make.
If we are going to recommend ‘veterans’ be placed in schools, it has to be understood that those ‘veterans’ of the right sort may be just a little in short supply. We surely don’t want ‘veterans’ of the same calibre as most cops in schools in Broward County. . .
If the County Sheriff supports these programs, they can establish a screening and training program to ensure the best qualified people are serving in these roles. A military veteran will often be easier to train, as they have familiarity and possibly advanced weapons training. Additionally, they are accustomed to a level of discipline and structured programs of instruction that will be necessary to serve as armed representatives at schools.
I have been saying for years; if just 10% of the money spent by Bloomberg and other anti-gun fanatics was made available to County Sheriff’s programs to train, educate and support the individual’s right to bear arms, the benefits would greatly exceed any proposed or existing “common sense” gun law created.
I cant say this is true of Broward County but here in Palm beach County. A lot of deputies have come out of the prison system. I guess a lot of the training is similar and cheaper on the county. Ive had a run in or 2 with some of these deputies and almost had one fired. The Command Sargent and I had a sit down at my house. That particular cop was still on probation and the Sargent promised me they would have a talk with him.
Looking back I should have insisted he be fired. If he treated any other senior citizens they way he did me again. I wouldn’t know it.
You treat prisoners one way. Civilians shouldn’t be.
A ton of bullshit in that post. Veterans actually make the calmest police police officers, Ive seem with my own eyes. This is because they’ve often been through shit way more stressful than what police encounter. Being an active duty enlisted soldier is the most stressful job in America, hands down. Also, soldiers from this generation of combatants make far better police for the situations you’re discribing because of the environments they found themselves in. The wars of the past 20 years have seen most them fighting in heavily populated urban terrain, where they had to distinguish bad guys wearing regular clothes, from civilians wearing regular clothes. The ROE of these wars is far more strict now then it ever has been. So, actually, it really is veterans of these wars you’d want protecting schools. They’re in fact the most qualified to do so, beyond any other law enforcement resource to draw from in this country.
Is point is largely correct. An Air Farce payload specialist or Navy hullpaint spent a few years in the equivalent of a college dorm lift. 9-5 NOT high stress anything.
ON THE OTHER HAND. I don’t want kids living in a prison camp where cops are patrolling the hallways. As these school resource farces are typically the useless and quotababies what use are they. School attacks are down since the 90s. This entire farce is all about gun control.
exactly. thank god someone on here besides me can think logically.
You know, if no one but you meets your standards of ‘logical’ maybe you’re the one that is defective.
Remember. If you meet one asshole in the morning there’s a good chance he’s an asshole. If you’re meeting assholes all day there’s a good chance you’re the asshole.
Anyone who is trained for the weapon they will carry in their new job is better than someone who is not familiar with it. There will be additional training for that job and the person selected must understand the steps he needs to follow. Many vets come home to a nothing job or nothing, this will help vets and will match a fit individual to the job.
A vet who has recently been in the military should be a better fit than a teacher who may of may not be ready to take the kill shot.
” . . .The skills an infantry soldier or Marine uses in Fallujah are not necessarily applicable to Des Moines High.”
Exactly. Police culture has already been adversely effected by an overabundance of Iraq and Afghanistan vets who have translated their wartime experiences into their police work. Those values that they brought back from combat zones are dysfunctional when applied to everyday American society. Chief among these is the now common practice of viewing “civilians” has potential threats who are little different from actual threats. If you are clearing houses in an Afgan village, that makes sense. It makes little sense for a local sheriff’s first response to self-deploying armed parents is to warn them that they are a danger to LEO’s and might be shot. It didn’t use to be this way. It shouldn’t be this way now.
I would hope any policing would be done by the police, leaving the security folks to do only security. They would be in addition to the existing SROs not replacing.
The gun control crowd was using those same “lawless times” to justify their position. Sprinkled with a heavy helping of good ol “fear of a black man” racism. Their hysteria then and now is a direct copy of the Reefer Madness bullshit. No reality. Just fantasy fears of hypotheticals and the “other.”
Quite often, firearms owners are their own worst enemies. The duck hunters don’t like the AR-15 “black rifles” so they see no problem if attempts are made to ban them. The traditional rifle owners don’t like machine guns, so they have no problem with them being legislated out of existence. Some pistol owners see nothing wrong with certain long guns being outlawed just as some rifle owners would have no problem seeing pistols banned. You see, anti-gunners want them all. They will chip away a little at a time until their goal of civilian disarmament is complete. They have an excuse for banning every firearm. Scoped bolt-action rifles are defined by anti-gunners as “sniper rifles” because they are “too accurate”. Magazine-fed weapons are suspect because of high (actually normal) magazine capacity. Handguns are suspect because they are “easily concealable”. The gun grabbers want them all and have made (flimsy and suspect) excuses for banning every type of firearm. They don’t care how long it takes. and will use incrementalism to their advantage.
Friends, ALL firearms advocates must “hang together” and realize that an assault on ANY means of firearms ownership and self-defense is an assault on ALL forms of firearms ownership and self-defense.
There is absolutely NO ROOM for complacency among ANY Second Amendment supporters. An attack on one is an attack on ALL…
ALL firearms laws are unconstitutional on their face. Imagine the hue and cry if “reasonable” restrictions were placed on First Amendment activities, especially with the “mainstream media”. The Second Amendment is clear–what part of “shall not be infringed” do politicians and the media not understand…of course, they understand full well…it’s part of their communist agenda…
Even the NRA bears some responsibility for capitulation on matters concerning firearms. The NRA failed when it allowed the National Firearms Act of 1934 to stand without offering opposition, the 1968 Gun Control Act, the NICS “instant check” system, the “no new machine gun for civilians” ban in 1986, the so-called “assault weapons ban in 1991, and other infringements on the Second Amendment. Let’s face it. What better way to increase membership than to “allow” infringements to be enacted and then push for a new membership drive. Yes, the NRA has done good, but its spirit of “compromise” will only lead to one thing…confiscation.
If the NRA is truly the premier “gun rights” organization, it must reject ALL compromise…
I always ask the poor dolt working the NRA booth at whatever gunshow, “what’s the next capitulation?”
Those that know the word “capitulate”, will say, “oh no, we’re not giving in…”. I then ask, so you are just going to enthusiastically support whatever it is that will erode our rights, like you’ve done since pretty much day one?
Few in the booth even know the history.
“President George W. Bush signed the bill, granting gun manufacturers immunity from civil lawsuits filed over crimes committed with firearms. The NRA called it “a vitally important first step toward ending the anti-gun lobby`s shameless attempts to bankrupt the American firearms industry through reckless lawsuits.”
Granted, the venerable NRA is not without its warts and carbuncles, but I can think of no other gun-rights organization that could have shepherded something like this through congress and into law. It and other NRA sponsored laws continue to provide a protection to American gun-owners that gun-owners in other countries can only dream about. Could another gun-rights organization accomplished something similar? Of course not.
Very well said!
Very true. I would also add that anyone who believes the state has the right to deny “certain people” (ex-cons, the mentally ill, etc) their gun rights also believes that gun ownership is a privelege. A right that only applies to certain people isn’t a right at all
Finally. Someone said it. And it needs to be said more often. Life in a free country is not without risks. A friend of mine who grew up in the Soviet Union said “it was a very safe place, very low crime”. I’ll take my chances with real freedom, thank you.
They are also individuals that are more likely to have violent crimes committed against them. They are made to depend upon government for their very lives, while the government disclaims any responsibility for failure to protect them against being maimed, raped, or murdered. Without the right to life they are little more than slaves.
So you’re an absolutist.
Then you believe Manson should have been able to carry a loaded AR while he was in prison.
I don’t quite get that.
That is one of the most idiotic statements I have seen today. When a person is incarcerated their rights are suspended.
Why is it hard to understand? If you’ve paid for your crimes, then your rights should be restored. ALL OF THEM. If they cannot be restored, then you haven’t paid for your crimes, you are still a danger, and you shouldn’t be out at all. Lol, Stillwater Prison in Minnesota, used to have a law on their books, that when released, you were to be given a horse and a rifle.
“That is one of the most idiotic statements I have seen today. When a person is incarcerated their rights are suspended.”
Obviously, you don’t understand the word “absolutist.”
Does the Second Amendment say, “…shall not be infringed unless your rights are suspended?”
No, it says, “…shall not be infringed.”
You can’t have it both ways.
“Anti-gunners want them all” and so do I; in my personal arsenal. 😀
(Just couldn’t resist).
If the NRA comes out and announces a “NO COMPROMISE” mission statement going forward, it would finally give a majority of “pro-gun” politicians the last nudge they need to abandon support of the organization and follow the gun control path of the Democrats. While you might be morally and constitutionally correct, the world doesn’t work that way, and the ugly truth is that the majority of gun owners are perfectly fine with some infringements. This blog, and a few other forums/blogs, are echo chambers.
For example, you guys pitching the whole “background checks/prohibited persons are an infringement” thing aren’t technically incorrect, but probably less than 1% of gun owners think that allowing someone convicted of a violent felony to walk into a gun store and legally buy a gun is a good idea. Mention the idea of abolishing background checks to most people and they’ll look at you like you have 10 heads. And I’ve heard the GOA talking point of “if a person can’t be trusted with a gun, they shouldn’t have been let out of prison”. That’s hogwash considering the state of American corrections.
And while I won’t say the NRA didn’t fight the GCA and NFA, remember, the organization was very, very different when both those acts got passed, and didn’t even have a lobbying arm at the time. Reasonably certain there was actual compromise with the 1986 law with the inclusion of FOPA and the restriction on a Federal Database of gun owners.
So to all those unhappy with the NRA for capitulating or bending or whatever – GOA awaits. Join and donate. They’re a good organization, as well. If so many other gun owners truly believe in the “no compromise” mindset, GOA should be bigger than the NRA in no time.
“And while I won’t say the NRA didn’t fight the GCA and NFA, remember, the organization was very, very different when both those acts got passed, and didn’t even have a lobbying arm at the time. Reasonably certain there was actual compromise with the 1986 law with the inclusion of FOPA and the restriction on a Federal Database of gun owners.”
The history is rather easy to find. You might find it interesting.
Re-reading what I wrote, that should say “did”, not “didn’t”. As in I won’t say the NRA fought the GCA or NFA. Typo on my part.
“While you might be morally and constitutionally correct, the world doesn’t work that way, and the ugly truth is that the majority of gun owners are perfectly fine with some infringements. This blog, and a few other forums/blogs, are echo chambers. ”
Ya, but Azzbook and Doogle will sell their information, so it’ll be easy to find those people. For everything else, there’s the map, http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/05/11/report-donald-trump-to-hang-portrait-of-electoral-college-landslide-in-white-house/, and the new one is due out in just a few months.
When Guns Are Sold Illegally, A.T.F. Is Lenient on Punishment
That’s because most of the illegal gun transactions that come to the ATF’s attention are performed by repeat criminals that nobody has any use for. If you’re a Fed, it’s no fun to put career felons in prison.
The ones the ATF stridently pushes feral persecutors to put in prison are the few that are useful productive citizens, with bonus points if the citizens had zero criminal intent and harmed nobody with their gun transactions. In that case, they’ll fight all the way to the Supreme Court to make you a felon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abramski_v._United_States
What’s not said is the role the U.S. Attorney’s Office plays in the decision to prosecute. In the end they are the final arbiter not the investigating agency. If the AUSA doesn’t want to prosecute then it’s just an administrative matter. The flip side is when the AUSA wants to make a federal case out of nothing, that’s when John Q. Citizen has a real problem.
Too bad you insist on calling hunters Fudds. If you think that keeps them in your camp you’re wrong, gamer boy. Do you appreciate being called a derogatory name? Hell, it’s true. Most of you that are not hunters and are into guns got into them through kiddy video games and movies. But hell, keep it up. You’ll lose the hunters soon.
A hunter isn’t a Fudd.
Anybody who thinks his choice of firearm is good enough for everybody else, and it’s OK to limit their choices to his choices, now that’s a Fudd.
What FedUp said. Hunters aren’t necessarily Fudds. In fact most aren’t.
Oh, and I’m a hunter. I’ve never played a video game in my life. But you be you.
You sound like a FUDD, Jim.
“Most of you that are not hunters and are into guns got into them through kiddy video games and movies.”
Not by the numbers I’ve seen.
Most of us are older than video games by a good margin.
The ATF does some strange things. The article mentioned the time they should have revoked gun dealers licenses but did not but on the other hand a few years ago when they needed more inspectors and did not have the money to hire them their solution was to just shut down gun dealers who had committed no infractions at all. The ATF just started manufacturing reasons to shut many of them down and we heard nothing from the NRA when this happened. One dealer was shut down for using paper clips on his paperwork instead of staples, another for not re-filing in a timely manner, and many more who were not locally zoned for business but that should have been a local decision not one the ATF should have made. The lists went on and on and the review board when appealing such cases is actually run by the ATF themselves. What a joke that is. Its like asking the Fox not to enter the hen house.
Hey Cisco, what happened? Usually you’re an absolute asshole, so what changed? 😉
Doesn’t sound like “our” cisco…I kid you not😄No cut & paste BS. The NRA sucks but we’d be SOL without them…which is SAD😧
Not Really an Ally….
On the rare occasion that they aren’t openly advocating the NFA 34, GCA 68, “assault weapons” bans, background checks, no-fly, bumpstock prohibitions, or selling us out some other way – maybe, just maybe they throw us serfs a bone and try to get us a few of the rights they enthusiastically sold out from under us.
http://jpfo.org/articles-assd02/nra-supported-nfa34.htm
I know he gambles away the mortgage money, and brings home syphilis from the discount whores, but you better stay with him because sometimes he buys groceries…
‘Utah truck driver stops man wrestling Wyoming trooper’
Ida shot the bastard.
…she did?
*8)
I was debating that too. I was thinking that clubbing him on the head with my 4-Cell maglite might work, but not sure I would want to get that close. Wrestling him off would definitely not be my choice.
74 lbs of marijuana? That’s like a pickup-full of weed.
If you run it through a baler it ought to pack like alfalfa. I’m sure the results are similar if you vacuum bag it.
A hay bale usually weighs 50-100lb, and you can put a couple of them in a car trunk.
The best day for me hauling hay was 1300 bales, we got 3 1/2 cents a bale, that’s stacking it on the truck/ trailer and stacking it in the hay barn. Them days are gone, everybody went to round bails. I bought a Saur and Sons SA .22 with some of that money. First pistol I owned, 16 years old.
Hey, I got one of those.. ‘western marshall’, still have the 22 mag cylinder for it too..
put I don’t know how many tens of thousands of rounds through it..
even the grip wood is better than anything I have seen in the last 20 years
My go-to snake gun with 22 cb’s
Makes your eyes red just thinking about it.
I’ve heard the packs they carry across our southern border weigh 70 pounds. That’s why my congressman famously said they’ve got calves like cantaloupes.
The atf and their piss poor performance is why we need to get the .gov out of the gun business. Any American should be free to walk into a hardware store and buy any type of firearm that suits him/her. No background checks, no waiting periods, etc.
If they commit a crime with the gun then the law can deal with them. Simply buying or carrying a gun isn’t a crime.
I’m for repealing all the gun control laws. When this is suggested , even just constitutional carry, the libs say that then the police won’t know who the criminals are. Well dummy, the criminals are the ones doing the crimes.
Your mistake is thinking they should be forced to so ‘police work’ to figure out who the criminals are. That not only sounds like work, it includes the word ‘work’.
Or the atf is doing the selling.
No, no, no, all vets have some kinda posthole stretch discount shingles and America don’t need them running around with a gum
WAS dominated by Fudds? We looking at the same NRA?
The Washington Post piece isn’t terrible, but it leaves a few critical elements out of its timeline. Draconian gun laws were proposed in the 1970s. For example, DC banned handguns. Mass almost did. CA had a referendum on it also. The NRA’s switch to activism was, to some degree, a response to the wild-eyed gun banning by politicians.
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