Hate and Vitriol, CPD Video and Disappointed in Massachusetts – TTAG Daily Digest

1. It’s a victimHOOD agenda in Chiraq. Doesn’t matter if homie had a gat. The po-leece shot him in the back😢The horror! They already demanded Tiny Dancer© and the hapless po-leece chief resign. And it’s been HOT and humid…pray for me as I have travel to a northside auction on Wednesday(got a Joe DiMaggio signed baseball)…

   • you go 7300 n. western?
     cross street to 7301 and ask barkeep for charles.
     best chicken wings in the world. i’m buyin’.

     • Gimme two fried chickens, and some dry toast….

2. Refused to stop when told by the cops: check
   Reached into his waste band while pulling away: check
   Ran away despite being surrounded by police: check
   Blatantly reaching for his gun: check

   I am no fan of the Chicago PD. And I will even suggest that they instigated this one. But doing the above will never work out wether it’s chicago or Mayberry

   • Does that state require you to show your CCW on request? If you don’t have to, why would the cops think it’s okay to run up on someone, assault them and illegally search them? Maybe in that moment in time the guy didn’t want some government workers infringing his rights and he was willing to die for it (BLM and all that).

     There was that other shooting at the gas station a little while ago. The gang unit tried to get the identity of a man sitting in a van to see if he has warrants. The man refused to voluntarily give them that and declined to interact with them. So, cops decided to search his plate to see if they can find anything in the system to create justification to pull him over and get his identity to look him up. The end result was a confrontation that got a cop shot.

     From what I remember, it’s not legal for you to look-up/search a plate without probable cause and declining to voluntarily give the police your ID isn’t a crime/probable cause.

     I never was a gang member, but I have experienced the same illegal detainments and searches. It’s not cool when cops run up on you and point guns at you. After they commit a crime against you they interrogate you like you are the criminal and threaten to arrest you for crimes you didn’t commit to get you to talk to them. I guess they would say “officer safety” and “suspicious person.”

     • Even if the search is illegal (and it very well could be), fight it in court, not on the streets. Two things could be true at once: 1) the cops are violating your rights with an illegal search without probable cause, and 2) it’s an extremely bad idea to resist and go for your gun.

       • I can accept that as a suggestion, but not as an absolute. Especially in shitholes like Chicago. You need to realize you are very likely to lose, and somewhat likely to be injured or killed, if you stand on your rights, but the choice after that is up to you. I say that because if you comply, they may kill you anyway.

       • You are correct of course. However, even from my more limited interactions with the police it is easy to imagine getting so fed up with the abuse that one is willing to die in order to just not bend over and take it for once. Maybe he had a series of things go wrong in his life recently and this was just the straw that broke the camels back. The cops probably weren’t wrong for shooting but they may have been wrong for creating the situation that called for it. If they were just being dicks before the shooting they should be at the very least fired and, even better, charged with a crime that led to a homicide. However, if one thing is absolutely clear, most cops don’t consider being dicks just because they can, problematic behavior. In my experience, about 2/3 of cops are criminally abusive. It sure would be nice to see the tables turn on them. The other third, even though respectful and professional in their own interactions, as far as I can tell, aren’t willing to do anything to reign in their criminal coworkers.

       • Larry, the Daniel Shaver case proves that the idea that cops might kill you just because they are psychos. However, getting into a gunfight with half a dozen cops will not end well. You may feel justified, and your personal experiences may provide some backing for that, but in the end, unless you want to be a martyr, it’s a bad idea.

     • Courts have ruled that no PC is necessary to run a NCIC check on a license plate. That’s basic policing. As far as having to give your name/information, that depends on the nature of the stop, ie consensual contact vs Terry stop vs arrest.

       • 1. Reasonable suspicion is needed to run a background check, not PC.

         2. NCIC doesn’t have a way to run license plates, it only queries info from state databases.

       • A registration check/subject check through NCIC (which does query state databases, LEADS in Illinois since we are being technical) requires neither PC nor reasonable suspicion.

     • 1. In Illinois, you are legally required to notify police if you’re carrying and present the CPL.
       2. Even if you’re legally in the right, resisting arrest and going for your gun is a Darwin Award.

       • Here in South Carolina as well.

   • Gunfighting 101. You will never be able to draw and shoot faster than someone who is already drawn, let alone a group of already drawn combatants.

     • Seen it happen all the time on TV and the movies…so it must be true…right?
       Even seen the guy disarm people…disassemble their gun…before they could fire a single round.
       Are you telling me TV and movies are lying to me? /s

       • It’s also worth considering that it is 100x as difficult to shoot the good guy as it is to shoot the bad guy (seen it on TV *forever*!), might want to figure out which one you are, first. Yeah, yeah, /s.

     • I’ve seen multiple security camera videos that would refute that.

3. No such thing as a good shoot for some people.
   Taken and Designated Survivor are both cancelled. Keep up the messaging and virtue signalling. Its doing wonders for TV.

   • Go woke and go broke.

     We seem to be on the cusp of a great rending of the culture. Pretty soon, there will be a need for firearms friendly credit card companies, insurers, basically a whole separate economy. It seems like it would make sense for some network out there to put itself forward as the place where people who know anything about guns can find some entertainment. Sort of like how Baen Books is the place to find Sci-Fi and Fantasy that’s about, you know, entertainment and not SJW virtue signaling. Maybe on that network, people would keep fingers of triggers, refer to magazines as magazines and clips as clips, and there would be an awareness that a sign is just a sign, and not a mystical talisman of protection.

     I’d watch it.

     • I hear you. I loved “Jupiter Ascending” so much I went back the same week and watched it again, in 3D the second time. But that did not mean that I did not see the heavy handed propaganda, it was just so spectacular that I chose to ignore the BS. Would be nice to have a place to go where such crap was prescreened.

   • NBC has always been anti gun back as far as the late 70s. CBS has also been anti gun and anti hunting as far back as 1975. They make it a point to hire anti gun “journalists” to broadcast their agenda of slowly destroying our rights. Does anyone notice how the newsies interject their opinions on every story they report? I can’t watch the news any more because of a bunch of jackasses telling us how they feel about the story. Makes me sick.

   • I was bored and found “Designated Survivor” on Hulu. I made it about 5 minutes into the second episode, then turned it off when the show was talking about how police all over the country were harassing and assaulting Muslims. The final nail came when that actor who was a former Obama staffer in real life (Kumar from Harold and Kumar) got stopped by the police and harassed for no reason.

     Sad, really, the show had potential. Kiefer Sutherland is a good actor. Instead they opted to make the show a liberal hate fest.

4. Im not sad that the police have stopped permanently a black criminal who preyed on other black people. Thank you for doing your job.

   • Details matter.

     Was it legal for them to do what they did leading up to the shooting? Because if a cop breaks the law, in some circumstances, you can legally/justifiably shoot them. There have been cases were cops were shot and the shooter wasn’t charged because details, details, details.

     From what I heard and read, he was a barber and people liked him a lot.

     • Right. From what you heard and read he was a barber and people liked him a lot. Word on the street he was a good boy. Diddin do nuffin. He was popular so that makes what he did ok. Guess you solved the mystery Sherlock.

       • …a black criminal who preyed on other black people.

         The community says he wasn’t a criminal preying on innocent black people in the neighborhood.

         All I know for certain is that he was grabbing at his gun after they exposed it. Whether what he did was illegal still isn’t clear because there needs to be definitive facts to determine that. Regardless, that action got him killed.

         I am not bias in either direction. Most gun supporters have a bias for the police regardless, which doesn’t make much sense to me. I will base my decisions/opinions on the details/facts…

       • Ok. You immediately question the narrative of the police. That’s fine and dandy. I get it. But then you take what the “community” says for gospel. That’s just silly for oh so many reasons.

       • It’s no worse than assuming that the victim was “a black criminal who preyed on other black people”.

         You don’t have to take either narrative at face value.

       • It’s actually sort of funny watching the cop-haters on here twist themselves into knots trying to pin this one on the police.

         Because screw cops, and “details”, ya know?

       • Yeah, who was it who went and asked the “community” and then reported the answer to us? I call bullshit, I can’t even find “community” online, suspect the opinion of one person was presented as that of the “community”, without even checking whether that person was within 100 miles when the event happened.

     • What you can do and what you should often have a wide gulf between them. Maybe you’re right and all the police actions were illegal and if he had shot the police he would be in the clear legally. Maybe because of that, the officer who shot him will be charged and convicted of murder. In that case, he’s 100% justified and vindicated. Still dead, of course, but vindicated. So hooray.

       However, if the goal is to be alive, then maybe taking the strategy of accepting being wronged, of taking the illegal search, and potential arrest, then suing the city for all it’s worth would have been better. Sure, there would be no guarantees that he would prevail in court (things are stacked in the favor of police in such cases), but there is the whole not dead thing on the plus side.

     • In Illinois? Yes. If he was a Illinois licensed concealed carrier, he’d broken several laws before he even went for his gun.

       • The thing is, as we’ve both said, it’s really beside the point. Don’t. Fight. The. Police. At least, don’t fight them in the streets.

         If they were wrong, then you’re vindicated and dead. If they were right, then you were foolish and dead. Either way, not a happy day for you.

         Be extremely cooperative, even if they’re fucking with you, hope you don’t have a psycho like in the Daniel Shaver case, and then fight it in court later. Confrontation on the street simply cannot end well for you.

   • Information given during the press conference was that he was not a criminal, no recent interaction with Law Enforcement. He seemed to have been simply exercising his right to self defense(without) state permission mind you(no CPL). Check out the video and you see a CCW set up on his hip. Holster for weapon as well as spare mags. Why he acted the way he did is beyond me though. He had a FOID so he wasn’t a prohibited person. More info needed.

     • Illegal carry of a legally owned concealable firearm in public is a misdemenor in every state I can think of and isn’t even a disqualifying crime for NICS. Why he escalated this to a deadly force encounter is beyond me. The cops approached him “hands free”, IOW they didn’t have their guns out even though they believed he was armed. They didn’t draw their guns until they saw that he CLEARLY had one, and they didn’t shoot him until he gave that gun half-a-dozen good pulls, clearly trying to draw it. The cops did nothing to justify HIS use of deadly force against them. Although HE did everything to justify the cops’ use of deadly force against him.

       “….you see a CCW set up on his hip..” Is that a thing? Like criminals aren’t allowed to use holsters and have spare mags? Or, if you have a holster and spare mags, then it’s OBVIOUS you aren’t a criminal? That statement is very confusing to me. Please clarify it, because I’m dying to know the rational behind it.

       • Probably making the observation that very few criminals have enough respect for firearms/ballistic skill to carry in a proper rig. It’s not a stretch to say that nearly all of them just shove the gun down their pants and call it good. I’d also imagine that criminals who carry in a proper rig are probably a cut or three above your average gang bangers or dope dealers, and thus unlikely to initiate a deadly force encounter with cops over a minor felony.

         Inferences and assumptions to be sure, but inferences and assumptions have their place

   • As a black gun owner I open carry all the time. I walk past police officers coming in and out of grocery stores. And I have never been stopped. Except once when my headlight was burned out I was stopped by the police. With my hands on the steering wheel I informed the officer that I had a firearm. When I asked if he wanted to see my carry permit he said “no”, nervously, “I don’t need to see that”. I just need to see your driver’s license and registration and insurance. I showed him my paperwork and he let me go with a thank you and just get it fixed.

     The problem is there a lot of self hating white people, self-hating white liberals, who voted for Barack Obama because they are full of liberal white guilt. And that is a very big problem we have in society.

     Those same white liberals also support the welfare industrial complex. Which is also a big problem in our society.

     • Thanks for the input, Chris, as a non black I hear lotsa nasty shit about how harassed blacks are by the cops, your experience is enlightening. Is your described experience in KY only, or other states as well?

       • I open carry in Tennessee as well. That is were I was stopped with a broken headlight. I’ve never had any problems with the police. And there are many other blacks, young and old, who also open carry here. I’ve not heard of any complaints. I find people at ranges, staff and customers, to be very friendly and helpful. I’ve been to 2A events and was the only black person there, sad to say, but have been treated very well.

         White Liberals have a love affair with the black criminal class. The whites don’t live anywhere near these combat zones. The white Liberals are as racist as uniformed Brown Shirts. They both want all blacks disarmed.

5. Does anyone know what this really means? :

   “Russian who operated pro-gun group arrested for acting as foreign agent”

   https://www.marketwatch.com/story/russian-who-operated-pro-gun-group-arrested-for-acting-as-foreign-agent-2018-07-16

   I recall an article here in TTAG about her awhile back.

   EDIT – And this little tid-bit – It looks the ‘Antifa’ fascists are getting ‘triggered’ about the proposed ‘masked rioter’ law in congress :

   “Antifa Groups Tweet Threats, Smears Targeting GOP”

   https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-16/antifa-groups-tweet-threats-smears-targeting-gop

   • That some conspiracy theory stuff right there. Watch out FPSRussia, you’re next.

     Is it now hunting season on Russians? Like when they went after Japanese Americans.

     • Arresting one woman for failing to register as a foreign agent is hardly the equivalent of the mass arrest of the Japanese during the war.

       And it doesn’t really seem like open season on Russians.

       • Didn’t they arrest a bunch of Russians awhile ago?

         The media calls everyone a Russian agent. Politicians are saying people on the internet are a bunch of Russian bots. Now I’m hearing people on the street call other people Russians. I think there was video of this latest shooting protest where the residents were calling the cops a bunch of Putins and Russians.

         Either your a Nazi or a Russian if you’re not on their side.

   • What happened to the law that required the KKK to unmask? It was one of the main reasons the KKK went into retreat–their facelessness gave them cover from prosecution and increased the intimidation factor. Being unmasked and out from under the bed, the cringed at the light of day.

     • Many years ago the ACLU supported unmasked KKK members marching in NYC. They tried and failed to get the government to let the Klan to keep their masks on. The city government said they would be arrested if they wore a mask.

       Now apparently the ACLU, Libertarians, Liberals, and the Left do support masked protesters who destroy private property, just like the Klan did many years ago. When the Klan did wear a mask.

     • Still valid here in NC. You can wear whatever you want, but you have to have your face exposed. The idea wasn’t to stop the Klan per se, but the Night Riders who would burn and kill under cover of anonymity.
       The cosplayers hate this, BTW.

6. If it’s not a good shoot if I, the private citizen, do it I don’t think it should be a good shoot for a cop. I’ll even acknowledge there’s a difference in that cops are required to initiate some confrontations, but even given that this was a bad shoot. Guy was running away and his gun was in his holster. If I had shot him I would already be in jail. So the cop should be as well. You can’t just go around shooting people because they have a gun. I would think most in this crowd would agree with that, but apparently I would be wrong.

   • Someone gets it.

     I had Hajis walk right up to the gate with loaded rifles, people sold knives in the bazar, even our interpreter bought himself an old Makarov, so I know people had guns. Can’t just go around shooting people because they are or may be armed.

   • Did you even watch the video? The guy was pulling on that gun and squaring off toward the cops. Do a youtube video search of “el presidente drill” and watch that shooting video again, and maybe you’ll see what I see. What I saw in that cop’s body camera was what a cardboard target sees right before it gets perforated. Short of getting shot themselves, those cops waited till the last second before shooting him.

     The cops did nothing to justify the use of deadly force against them. The guy did everything to justify the use of deadly force against him.

     • Apparently you missed the part of the video where he had calmly pulled his wallet out and was in the process of getting his ID out for one officer when a female officer approached him and tried to grab his arm. That was the action that triggered the chain of events.

7. Maybe it is a crime to run while black in Chitown – obviously, it seems to be a crime if you are not a LEO and are black with a gun……….

8. Die Hard is my favorite “Christmas movie “.

   • Watch it every Christmas season.

9. Weed is not a medicine.

   Get over it.

   • Uh, it actually is and proven effective. Been used for centuries too. Get over it.

   • https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4707667/
     https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317221.php
     Git Rekd.

   • Whether it is or not, the hypocrisy at the federal level on this issue is glaring and indefensible. time to clean up these logic gaps or nobody will take any law seriously. If one person’s drug of choice is different than another’s, so be it. So you must be in favor of making alcohol illegal then? lets be consistent and try not to let generational brainwashing get in the way.

     • I’ve had this discussion multiple times…

       The difference between alcohol and THC is that it’s possible to easily control your dosage for alcohol and perform a simple blood test to verify if someone is guilty of a DUI. Neither of those can be said for THC.

       The main problem I have with THC is that there is not an easy way to bust idiots for driving high, unlike driving drunk.

10. Marrion Hammer publicly a specific, single, nameable, person of trying to embezzle money from the NRA because he wanted it to focus on gun rights . Her grasp on law is pretty terrible. Not that that’s unexpected from someone who can’t grasp “shall not be infringed”

    • so are you sorenson, risica, weiss or sullivan?

11. I said it in a previous article, I’ll say it again. Just because he’s armed, doesn’t make him a criminal. If he didn’t have a permit, that just means he didn’t want to ask permission to exercise his natural right to bear arms. He shouldn’t have to. I don’t like to agree with the violent hordes, but in this case, they are right. The police are in the wrong.

12. There is absolutely nothing we will ever be able to do to change the mind of these air head Libtards. What we need to do is vote for people that will safeguard the Bill of Rights. You can’t fix stupid. We need political representatives that will craft and pass legislation, including a constitutional amendment further protecting the whole Bill of Rights from future Obama’s and Hillary Clinton’s. If we can’t get that from what we have, start voting these people put and vote new people in. IT’S high time we form a new constitutional party. This two parties system has been Fucking us for 100 years. Get busy people, the clock is ticking

13. Ms. Hammer caused her humiliation, shame, and embarrassment,she’s being paid well to weather the self caused storm.

14. “There is a marked difference between speech and harassment.”

    Nope. The difference is nebulous and mushy at best. Thanks for playin!

15. I’m a little curious about the conduct of the officers myself. I tend to take the cops side, like, every time. However, I have seen this exact situation played out by open carry protests, and no one got shot. I have seen cops reach for a white man’s holstered or slung weapon during a stop, the white man back away, and not get shot. Now, they didn’t reach for, or appear to reach for their weapon. But I do have a few questions.

    That is a pretty well thought out holster/belt situation. The gun rides high, the magazine is in a great spot for a reload. That’s not a saturday night special either. Now it is Chicago, so the chances he had a carry permit are pretty low. But I would not be surprised if we learned this was a legal carrying gun owner. For him to be so compliant initially, to use a setup like that which clearly prints obviously, I have my doubts.

    I would withhold judgment for now. This could be a friend of POTG.

16. Most people using pot as medication are liars. They like the idea of being legally intoxicated all the time (PTSD and cancer survivors not included). Those same pot heads were never supporters of the second amendment in the 1970s, 80s, 90s, and so on.

    “While it’s more difficult to prosecute motorists charged with driving under the influence of drugs, rather than alcohol, 15 states have what are known as “per se” drugged driving laws. Such DUI laws make it illegal to operate a motor vehicle with any detectable amount of certain drugs in one’s system.”

    https://dui.findlaw.com/dui-charges/driving-under-the-influence-of-drugs.html

17. Sadly Miss Hammer is learning late in life that the world has changed. Now its “ok” to threaten a person. The 1st amendment freaks support this speech. But they don’t support abortion clinic protesters who peacefully protest in front of an abortion mill. Nor do they support the speech of people who peacefully open carry and fish on a pier.

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