To many shooters, hitting something from the 1,000 yard line is like putting a man on the moon. It can be done, but it takes a smart person, specialized gear, and a lot of money. Of the two happiest moments of my shooting career, one took place on the 1,000 yard line at USMC Base Quantico with the ArmaLite AR-50 (the other was a few weeks ago, firing this thing). And the happiness didn’t come from the fiddy cal, the happiness came from the distance. With .50 BMG being just a bit expensive I decided to set out on a mission to see if $500 would buy enough gun to get rounds the full 1,000 yards and actually hit something at that distance, putting long range joy within reach of the average American shooter.
When reaching for distance, the smaller calibers are typically discarded. That’s not to say this shot couldn’t be made by a 5.56x45mm NATO gun (the guys I shoot with do it regularly, with IRON SIGHTS even!), but that takes a lot more skill than the average shooter has on tap and the 5.56x45mm NATO trajectory tends to drop pretty steeply at long distances. For our gun we want a flatter trajectory, which means a larger bullet with more momentum.
The round of choice for cheap bastards at distance is 7.62x51mm NATO (or .308 Winchester for you civvies). There are a variety of offerings, from 110 grain hollow point bullets to 180 grain full metal jacket bullets, but the “standard” weight round seems to be about 150 grains. 150 grain 7.62x51mm NATO ammo is cheap and plentiful, two adjectives which cannot describe the more typical 1,000 yard rounds (like .338 LaPua or .50 BMG). Looking back over the consistency testing we did a few weeks back and using that data, that puts the drop at 1,000 yards (with a 50 yard zero) at just about 34 MoA (34 inches @ 100 yards). Large, but manageable.
Luckily I already purchased a “value priced” rifle in .308 Winchester / 7.62x51mm NATO: the Mossberg 100 ATR. Designed and produced in the good ol’ U.S.A. (despite what the Sweedish flag draped box may have you think), this rifle is the poor man’s answer to the Remington 700 and in some ways may even be better than the latest run. It’s a no-frills bolt action that comes with pre-installed Weaver rails for a scope, all for far less than the magic $500 number.
Now that we have our rifle and some money to burn, it’s time to turn to the glass.
Whenever I need a cheap optic, Primary Arms is my first stop. While their stuff isn’t the best in the world it’s definitely worth every penny. I just did a review of this model so I’m not going to completely rehash it here, suffice it to say that it’s a scope that works. Tack on a couple of scope rings and onto the rifle it slips.
At this point, we have a functioning rifle with a pretty good optic on it. Add in a couple of shooting bags or sand bags to rest it on and you could probably make it to 1,000 yards without a problem. But I had some money left over (as the rifle + scope was still well under $500) and so I decided to splurge on a nice cheap bipod.
Why a bipod? Mostly because it looks cool, but also because it helps stabilize the rifle. Three solid points of contact with the ground makes a stable shooting position (bipod legs and butt support), meaning the crosshairs won’t dance all around the target when you start aiming at it. The same effect can be achieved with a sandbag or standalone shooting rest, but a bipod just means that there’s one less thing to forget on the way to the range.
What we end up with is something that looks damn close to a respectable long range rifle. Let me put on my best Johnny Dollar impression and tally up the receipts (not including tax, shipping or transfers)…
- Mossberg 100 ATR in .308 Win – $310
- Primary Arms 3-9×40 Scope and Rings – $105
- Winchester 6″-9″ Bipod – $40
- TOTAL: $455
A complete rifle with money to spare, which is something like a small miracle in an age where being under budget isn’t cool anymore. But how does it shoot? I trucked it out to the NRA Range and used some of the Birchwood Casey Shoot-N-C targets that they generously provided to us writers to find out.
Ignoring the flier (avoiding flinching is damn near impossible with a Mosin Nagant M44 in the next stall), that’s 5 rounds in a 1 inch circle at 50 yards. 1 inch at 50 is 2 inches at 100, or 2 MoA. That translates into a roughly 20 inch cone of uncertainty at 1,000 yards. Which, in the scheme of things, isn’t that bad.
I’ve got a rifle that shoots pretty well, a range at my disposal, and about $50. Let’s see if we can squeeze just a touch more accuracy out of this baby, and then the final test: a 1,000 yard shot by an average shooter (not me). Stay tuned…
Geez, you’d think we didn’t evolve from pack-like omnivore scavenger/opportunistic predators or something.
It’s literally built in. I suwpect you’d get better results acknowledging it and training people how to deal with the impulses, rather than trying to repress it and hope nobody goes “pop.”
Great idea, I’ve always liked the concept of “doing more with less.”
One question: Why .308? .30-06 is more common and the longer case allows for a bit more velocity. I can understand why the military uses that caliber (A/K/A 7.62 NATO) as the M14/M21, M60/M240 machine guns are chambered for it but if you’re starting from scratch, it seems to me that .30-06 would be a better round. I’ve also had difficulty finding rifles chambered in .308, again .30-06 being by far more common (and thus less pricey.)
There’s two very good reasons I went with .308.
The first reason is a range restriction at USMC Base Quantico. .30-06 is only authorized on one range (the 1,000 yard range), with the others limited to .308 or less. I figured that .308 was ballistically “good enough” for 1,000 while still giving me the opportunity to practice at the other ranges (300 and 600 yards).
The second reason was price and availability. Around here .30-06 is available, but in limited quantities and relatively expensive. The cheapest I can find is $0.60/round for .30-06, but .308 can be had for nearly half that ($0.32/round) and it’s available everywhere I turn. I’m pretty sure even the kebab truck outside sells it. If we’re truly trying to be cheap bastards then what’s the point in picking an expensive and elusive round?
I agree, though. If I was going for a 30 cal round, .30-06 would be my choice. The 100 ATR does come in .30-06 for the exact same price, so if you’re following along at home you can substitute in your caliber of choice.
Well the 30-06 is slowly becoming outdated . The military used 30-06 before the 308 was made. 308 is overall more superior for things like barrel life, size, reliability. Although the 3006 has more velocity it’s barely noticeable, (308 drops 25 inches at 1000yards and the 3006 drops 20) so if you want to spend extra money for that extra 5 inches at 1000 yards then do so but remeber the barrel won’t last as long, more recoil, takes up more space, and slowly becoming obsolete due to the 308. Plus there aren’t any new modern 30-06 chambered rifles coming out (at least not nearly as much as 308)
little bit more than 25 inches of drop at 1000yrds unless your zero is out past 900
A .308 actually drops more then 25 inches at 1000 yds.
Even with a maxed out hot round it will still drop more then 25 inches.
Plus to say the barrels wear out faster in a 30-06 is pretty uneducated.
It depends on the materials used to make the barrel not the caliber it is.
I guarantee my 1977 Savage 110 30-06 will out last any .308 made.
I’ve put literally thousands of rounds through it over the years and there is not a single sign of wear in the barrel.
I clean the barrel up and you would think the gun has never been shot.
My friend had a .308 for about 4 years and the rifling starting wearing out after only 4 years. He had to buy another barrel for his .308.
It’s not the caliber it’s the manufacture and what the make them out of.
If you want a gun that will last you a life time go with an older solid wooden stock.
New guns now days are junk.
My 77′ Savage will out shoot and last any .308 made.
I got a wooden peace of oak
Drilled a hole true it for a barrel. Test fired it at 2 miles with a 458 round. I packed 3000grans of sxon in it and was using a 500 grain boat tail cast titanium . Got 1.
5 inch groups at 2 miles . Shot a 55 gallon
Drum of water . Cut the drum in half.
Kevin, I don’t get the connection between a wood stock and longevity? Seems like a stock made out of a synthetic material would be less upkeep and last longer. Seems like the accuracy would be a moot point for wood vs synthetic. I like the looks of the wood stocks but other than that I don’t see the advantage. What am I missing here?
When you are comparing how fast a round will wear out a barrel, you hold all else equal, ie you use the exact same type of barrel. A 30-06 will wear out a barrel faster than a 308 with all else equal and if all else is not equal then the test means absolutely nothing,
My remmington model 12 made in 1928 can pick off dvds at 100 yards no problem and still has a good looking rifleing. Outshoots newer 22s all day.
Just plain wrong information about barrel wear. It has to do with pressure and overbore. A .308 will go in excess of 8000 rounds. A .243 (same case as .308) will only get 1500-2000 because of overbore/pressure. 3006 suffers from slight overbore and will wear faster.
I consider the .308 more accurate due to its shorter action, but up here in AK we have to drive big slugs into animals that weigh as much as small cars. The sub zero temps and the resultant more dense air can reduce small case based cartridges ranges as much as 400 yards, so to each his own. Good job on the low buck weapon.
Thanks Randy, I just saw your comment, I was just about to say, “what kind of 30-06 are you shooting that only drops 20″@ 1000 yrds???” I shoot religiously and my 30-06 drops 19 MOA (or 159.6 inches @ 800yards) shooting 180gr Sierra Match Kings.
The 30-06 has a greater case neck tension and therefore requires a greater release force. A longer bullet neck means more metal holding the bullet in the case. Overall though the 308 also has a higher ballistic coefficient compared to a similar 30-06 round. In the end, the little bit of extra powder you get in the 30-06 doesn’t outweigh the greater neck tension found in the 30-06 cartridge. They’re both good, accurate calibers as long as they’re in good hands. But the 308 is better.
They both use the same bullets. The ballistic coefficient has nothing to do with what case a bullet is in, just the projectile itself. I dont know how you could possibly say a 30-06 has a higher bc than a 308, it doesnt even make sense.
The m240 is chambered for 556
Not sure where you got that info but it’s not 5.56 it’s 7.62.
when i was given the weapon in Ft.Benning GA as the first testing platoon being actual infantry airborne RDF 11B MOS’s to gauge whether the wepon needed anymore drawing board modifications, It was a 5.56 nato upgraded m16 a2 round. though variants later upped the caliber of the ammo. To my recollection the marines were the first to use the 7.62 variant. Its ejectable barrel replacement option made me mount 4x 200 rd ammo boxes to my ruck frame linked the left two together then the right two, then all ya had to do was pop the bottom ammo box lid off and baby “suppressive fire” was a smaller, faster hit you in the foot come out yer neck tumble-thon…bit of trivia though after going thru 3 barrels in Grafenwoer and hoenfels training assault got me a company grade article 15 for using a weapon in a way its not supposed to be used-true story.
I was a small arms repairman in the Army and your right. The M240 is chambered for the 7.62. Your probably thinking about the squad automatic weapon the M248 which is chambered in 5.56mm
The M240, officially Machine Gun, 7.62mm, M240, is the US military designation for the FN MAG (Mitrailleuse d’Appui Général, meaning General Purpose Machine Gun), a family of belt-fed, gas-operated medium machine guns firing the 7.62×51mm NATO cartridge.
Isn’t 7.62x54R cheaper? I mean, if you’re really going for a budget rifle… 🙂
Fair enough 🙂 Why the ban? I’m guessing they don’t like steel core, but perhaps it’s just national pride? Nah…
Or they don’t like sorting out the brass?
I think most of the ComBloc stuff is steel case – you can “sort” it from the brass with a magnet.
Brass magnet, I keep mine in my tool box next to my metric crescent wrench lol
I go at a 30-6 smith and weson icon.
With a. 3-9 power scope. I can place a group 1.5 in. At 100 yards. 136 gran boat tails.
Match grade ammo or handloads will tighten up those groups, especially at 1,000 yards. Find what it likes to eat.
Also, why not go with 7.62x54R? The Mosin-Nagant’s iron sights go all the way to 2,000 meters! That’s way beyond 1,000 yards! Hell, you’d even save $400 and it comes with a cool oil bottle and ammo pouches. Now that’s below budget!
I considered it, but here’s the main reason I didn’t go with a Mosin:
USMC Base Quantico specifically bans the use of rifles using 7.62x54mmR ammunition on their ranges. USMC Base Quantico is the only place that has a 1,000 yard range near me.
They also ban 9×18, 7.62×39, 7.62 Tokarev, 7.62 Nagant, 5.45×39, and just about anything once produced in Rodina Mat.
sounds like the cold war is still being waged.
I’ll bet it’s more because of concern about the steel-core rounds penetrating their berms rather than deforming like soft lead bullets.
Huh? How thin are their berms?
The Cold War will never end-just waiting on a new round.
For Martin Albright. Lots of folks argue that the .308 is inherently more consistent than the .30-06, and thus more accurate.
The .308 has a shorter case, and thus a shorter powder column than the 06. The shorter case helps powder burn to be more consistent than in a longer case. Fewer spikes or lags means not many variations in velocity shot to shot.
Check out cartridges like 6mm Benchrest with its stubby fat casing.
The .308 is inherently more consistent and isn’t that much slower than the 06.
And no snark or sarcasm intended, but where do you live that .30-06 rifles and ammo are more common and cheaper than .308?
Here, the local Academy Sports has low-end .308 for aroun $9 per 20. They have just as many loads in .308 as 30-06, if not more. At my local gun store there are probably 11 or 12 .308 rifles in various actions compared to one .30-06 semi and four or five .30-06 bolts guns.
Again, I’m not intending any negative tone. Just curious where .30-06 is still more plentiful and cheaper than .308.
Colorado. Dad and brother both have .308 rifles and I went searching for one for ammo compatibility. What I discovered was that for the same type of rifle, there were at least 10 .30-06s for each .308 I could find. In fact, .308 is really an “oddball” caliber out here, other than Dad and brother I don’t know anybody who hunts with it.
From what I’ve seen both here in Colorado and in Wyoming, .30-06 ammo is probably one of the most common if not the most common centerfire rifle caliber on the shelves (with .30-30 and .270 being 2nd and 3rd.) Any bulk ammo store will have multiple loads of .30-06, everything from 140gr up to 180 or bigger, while .308 choices are limited to one or two, typically 150gr loads.
As a handloader, I load both .308 and .30-06 and I sometimes have problems with my .308 cases being too small to hold a full charge of H4895. In my .30-06 loads I typically use a 60gr charge to push a 125gr Nosler ballistic tip which is about as flat-shooting a round as you can get (I call it my “antelope load” because I like to hunt speed goats on the Wyoming plains.)
German Salazar’s excellent series of articles on .308 for 1000 yard palma matches begins here:
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/10/cartridges-308-palma-preparation-and.html
At a minimum, you may want to make sure your choice of factory loads will keep you supersonic the whole way. Also that the twist rate of your barrel and the weight of the bullets are a good match. If your barrel is 1/10, you might be happiest with the heaviest factory bullets you can find.
Swiss K31. Done.
Agreed. The K31 is very accurate, the problem is mounting a good scope to take advantage of that accuracy, without rails.
The 7.5 Swiss is an inherently accurate long-range round, and the Swiss Army issue GP11 is match-grade.
The USMC range’s caliber restrictions are baffling, to say the least. Bulk brass processors (like the contractors that clean up military firing ranges) have no problem sorting Soviet calibers from NATO, or stell cases from brass.
I dig the Mosin, but the ammo choice is limited to cheap so-so surplus and pricier commercial ammo. True match-grade 7.62x54r ammo doesn’t really exist outside of Russia.
I don’t know what USMC you’re familiar with, but where I’m from it’s E-3’s and below that sort the brass, link, etc
“The Mosin-Nagant’s iron sights go all the way to 2,000 meters!”
That rifle (which I love) was developed for mass fire, where accuracy past “battle distance” of 300 meters was not required. The battle plan was to launch as much lead as possible in the general direction of the enemy, not to sight and squeeze. Unless the 91/30 in question is a bona fide sniper model with a rechromed barrell, long distance shots will be measured in minutes of barn door. But damn, they are so much fun to shoot!
Simo Häyhä Finnish sniper killed over 500 Russian with Mosin Nagant M28/30 rifle and iron sights. Remember its 90% shooter 10% weapon.
http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp
But he certainly had a Finnish Mossin Nagant that were of much better quality than the Russians’. And he certainly had one of the best of them.
how would the mossberg atr compare to the savage arms axis
The Savage is about $8 cheaper on Bud’s Gun Shop, and comes with a scope already mounted.
I handled a Savage Axis, but I have yet to fire one. To me it felt a little bit more flimsy than the Mossberg, but I will happily request one for some T&E and get back to you on that.
I love the Mosin Nagant reference lol.
Very nice, Foghorn. Now I want to see my dream carbine. A simple M1 carbine design, Hi Viz sights, parkerized, with a blackened alloy heat shield and steel butt, 20 shot magazines and in .357 magnum or .44 magnum. The one tactical attachment would be a small Sure Fire flashlight under the barrel. It would be the Ruger .44 carbine-the way it should have been made. I think for all the trouble it should be .44. Now who do we get to make it?
Somewhere in my archives I have a flyer I got from a company that was doing M1 Carbine conversions back around 1992-94 or so. IIRC they would rechamber your M1 to .45 Win Mag or .357 Win Mag (both being rimless cartridges.) I think the cost for the conversion was something around $400 back then, plus of course you had to supply your own M1 Carbine.
.357 Magnum, being a rimmed revolver cartridge, would require an extremely curved magazine and would not function well in a semi auto. There were several .357 semi auto pistols made, including at least one version of the Desert Eagle, and I think they all struggled to feed the rimmed cartridge.
I believe Ruger got around the rimmed-cartridge-in-a-semi-auto issue on their .44 carbine by having it feed from a tubular magazine like you’d find on a lever-action Winchester or Marlin.
Yes, that was the only thing with the Ruger-that 4 shot capacity. But, Coonan found a way to mag feed successfully, I think.
Couldn’t find a picture of a Coonan magazine of feed lips yet, not giving up! Because we’re gonna find a way to make it work and then go for the Safari grade of the Cujo Carbine, the .45-70 model! Work with me here! I’m having a Busey moment! Now the .45-70 model, I’d be willing to go tube fed with it, but we need at least 6-8 rounds. More power!
Or, we go with 10 mm and .458 SOCOM! .458 SOCOM, imagine-now my nipples are hard…
using soft point or federal hollow points in the 30 carb makes it as effective as the 357. Evans ans marshal data show this cartridge as a surprisingly good stopper . 110 gr bullet is great at 1990 fps.
I agree, I just love the excitement of making it more and more powerful. Imagine .458 SOCOM, wow!
Not to get really picky, but 7.62mm NATO and .308 Winchester are not the same cartridge. Using a .308 in a 7.62mm weapon could potentially be dangerous. 7.62mm NATO milsurp ammo is supposed to be loaded up to a pressure of 50,000 psi. .308 Winchester rounds are loaded up to 62,000psi. Using a .308 in a weakened milsurp chamber designed for 7.62mm NATO could lead to issues with the weapon. I have run both through my Century CETME and had no problems with either type, but that animal will eat anything that it is fed.
I believe that there may also be minor dimensional differences between the size of the two cartridges.
The Coonan magazine doesn’t seem that complex. It has a lot of lift at the nose end and looks like it tilts the cartridge to one side. Sooo, could it work? After peusing the .458 SOCOM stat’s though, it looks awesome. The question would be could an M1 carbine receiver handle such pressure? It COULD be the Alaskan model of an M1. My fevered mind wonders…
Ah, Colorado.
I reckon I understand now. I lived in northern Wyoming for two years, and it was really hard to find .30 Carbine ammo or 7.62X39 in the local gun stores up there.
They had every kind of 300-whatever-magnum-ultra-whomper-stomper you could name, however.
For your consideration:
No doubt factory 150 grain bullets will travel way beyond 1000 yards, but the question
is are they still stable 1000 yards from the muzzle? If they go subsonic short of the target they lose stability and accuracy is in the dumpster. That’s why Sierra developed the175 Match King, but a .308W has to be loaded near max to keep it supersonic out to a thousand yards.
Do you have enough “UP” in your scope to get yourself on target? I’ve seen a lot of
first timers try to go the distance with hunting scopes only to find out too late they were forty clicks short of what it took to get there. If you can’t go up at least
120 quarter minute clicks from a 300 yard zero, you need a better scope, some
Burris rings and inserts, or long range blocks. Hope this doesn’t bust your budget.
Your rifle’s poorly “set up.” Your scope is mounted way too high for a steady cheek weld on the stock. You can’t get into a steady firing position with your head waving
around in the air. Aiming with your chin on the stock comb is not a viable alternative
to a well fitting rifle.
Lastly, your sporter weight barrel is going to get hotter than Hell after the first five shots if you shoot more than one shot a minute. Light weight barrels warp all over the place when they heat up, so don’t expect the bullets to go where you aimed them
after shot number five. You’re going to need a heat shield on the barrel too or the target’s going to look like a gelatinous blob of quivering protoplasm. Make one out of an old metal venetian blind and some velcro. It’ll cost you about a dime.
So, if you get some target ammo, get a scope that’ll go the distance, get your rifle
set up to conform to your body and shoot at a slooow… rate, I have absolutely no doubt
whatsoever that you’ll be able to shoot 160 or better (probably much better) at a thousand yards with twenty shots – IF YOU CAN PLAY THE ATMOSPHERIC CONDITIONS.
Good luck and let me know how you make out.
I completely agree with everything you said, and I was hoping to eke out a second “prep” post worth of material fixing those items and testing everything out. Look for a post covering everything once I’ve exhausted my budget and had some 300 yard range time (a few weeks at most).
im just wondering if you have taken this out to 1000, i want a low cost 1000 yard rifle (just for fun), like this one but i think id rather get it in 06 (simply due to Availability). would you recomend this set up for this?
I have a atr 100 in 308 and have put about $600 into it all together. It came with a scope for about $400 and then I added a good muzzle break about $150. Even with the cheap scope I get my 143 g hornady ballistic tips with about 59.7 g of h337 to 1000 yards. A bit over loaded but the atr 100 shoots it like a champ. Very pleased with this cheep and accurate gun
I have a atr 100 in 308 and have gotten consistent accuracy at 1000 yards with my hand loads.
I have a stevens 200 308 w/SWAFA SS. I had to replace that horrid plastic stock with a wooden Savage stock $467.00
My old Savage 110 in 270win shoots rings around the Stevens but I have $1500 in that ($900 in glass and rings vs $140 in the SS).
The gun didn’t go off. He is an American LEO, which means there’s a 99% chance he was carrying a Glock, which means the only way the firing pin was released is that he pulled the trigger. He’s an idiot, and his badge should be yanked for this, but the gun literally cannot be to blame for this.
As far as I’ve been able to tell, the effect on a CCW licensed individual is an echo effect.
By that, I mean that those who notice more will generally be more inclined to get their CCW, and when carrying they will heighten their normally high levels of alertness in order to live up to the level of responsibility that they view carrying as requiring.
Course, I could be wrong, but that’s been my experience with the guys and gals I’ve been around.
I spent a touch more on my Savage 11VT – .308 (heavy 24′ barrel) it came with a cheap scope as a combo for $500 (the 11VT is a Dick’s exclusive so you wont find info on the Savage web site) I swapped out the scope with an SWFA SS 10x for $299 and LOVE it
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10×42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53712.aspx
Also I heard that .308 and the 7.62 NATO are slightly different, the .308 has more charge or something like that, also I heard that you can fire the 7.62 a .308 barrel but shouldn’t fire the .308 through the 7.62 NATO….. Not sure if this is true but its what I heard…
if anyone knows if this is true or not please comment
You are correct, they are not the same. See http://www.thegunzone.com/30cal.html
1) The “superiority” of the .308 round is usually based on factory loadings. Within the bounds of safety, the 168 gr. Match King bullet can be goosed to the 3000+ f/s range in the 30-06, thereby reducing even further the drop @ 500 or 1000 yds. With the lesser .308 brass capacity you start to run into issues of having to use faster/higher peak pressure powders to get the same +P level velocities above standard factory ammo. IF the NATO round had never become the 7.62 X 51, the 30-06 would have continued to be the unquestioned choice for snipers until the ‘ultra’ rounds like the .338…came along. Military armorers once routinely loaded them to 3000+ f/s.
2) If you had chosen the Savage rifle w/ accu-trigger…You wouldn’t have accepted 1″ groups @ 50 yds. because any off the shelf Savage is a 1 MOA rifle (or less) – especially with the accu-trigger. I just bought a Savage Axis II (for my son) w/ accu-trigger and decent 3×9 scope (a package) for $375 AND there’s a $50 factory rebate on that as well. This rifle with a bi-pod, 3000 f/s handloads with the 168 gr. match king bullets is certainly capable of zinging a one-foot bulls eye @ 1000 yds. with regularity.
You you think one could do the same starting with a Wal-Mart 700 ADL in 30-06?
How do I go about get a long range rifle built to shoot coyotes here in san antonio texas
There are a lot of bullshitters, as always on the net,
people who has only hypothesis and theories,
and fantasies about getting a serious 1000-yard rifle
-to work properly- with few hundred bucks.
Just, forget it.
34 MOA is 340 inches at 1000 yard
The police and the ATF are the enforcers of GOVERNMET POLICY!
Don’t like guys getting killed for selling loose cigarets? VOTE SMARTER!
Just spent two days meeting with (polite and helpful) ATF and industry reps to find solutions to some industry problems. The ATF was happy to consider solutions to our problems WITHIN THE LAW! If you don’t like the law, VOTE SMARTER!
Lmao, just get a 300 Win Mag with decent glass and a little practice!! Pretty damn simple if you ask me!!!
Just ordered some!
I have a question and all input will be helpful. I am looking for a long range scope for recreational shooters. I can’t justify spending a lot of money on a scope when I only get to go shooting maybe 3 times a year but I’m not looking for some bargain basement scope that I hear a lot of bad things about. I’m good with the fixed sights but I want to try my hand at long range. Thanks in advance