By Lindsay Whitehurst, AP
A total of 376 officers converged on Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas — more than the entire police force in a midsize American city like Fort Lauderdale, Florida, or Tempe, Arizona. But for more than 70 minutes on May 24, not one stopped the shooter.
Amid the sounds of continuing gunfire emanating from the elementary school they waited. By the time they entered and killed 18-year-old Salvador Ramos, 19 children and two teachers were dead or mortally wounded.
The response counters active-shooter training that emphasizes confronting the gunman, a standard established more than two decades ago after the mass shooting at Columbine High School showed that waiting cost lives.
“This is going to set back law enforcement 20 years. It really will,” said Greg Shaffer, a retired FBI agent who’s now a Dallas-based security consultant. “It was a calamity of errors.”
It’s not clear how many more people at Robb Elementary were shot while police waited, but the delay also meant more time before the wounded could get potentially life-saving care, he said following the Sunday release of a damning report from an investigative committee from the Texas House of Representatives that detailed the chaotic response.
“You have to assume there are people in critical need of medical attention,” he said. “The terminology that we use when we train is, ‘You have to stop the killing before you can stop the dying.’”
That was a tragic lesson from the 2016 mass shooting at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, where more than half the people killed bled to death before they could get emergency care, he said.
From the beginning, the officers’ tactics in Uvalde didn’t match with most standard operating procedure, Shaffer said. Rather than advance together, one of the first three officers lagged behind the others and another halted. And among those early responders, two had long guns and a third had a handgun, which could have been enough firepower to confront the shooter quickly. “Those are great odds. I’ll take those odds any day of the week,” Shaffer said.
As more officers arrived on scene, rather than acting as one overwhelming force to take down the shooter, they seemed to have little cohesion or leadership, said Maria Haberfeld, a professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York. That’s largely because they were from multiple overlapping agencies who didn’t communicate effectively with each other, something she worries could happen again.
“You have a number of departments that do not work together on a regular basis responding to a crisis situation. It’s chaotic, it’s unprofessional, it’s dysfunctional,” she said. “It’s just the best illustration of the worst-case scenario that I’ve been predicting for years now, that this multiplication of agencies is going to lead to disaster.”
Criminal charges against officers could be possible but civil liability is more likely, Shaffer said. A handful of local officers have been placed on leave, including the acting Uvalde police chief and the school district police chief, but the overwhelming majority of the officers who responded were federal and state law enforcement. That included nearly 150 U.S. Border Patrol agents and 91 state police officials.
“I think a lot of people need to lose their job,” Shaffer said.
Altogether, the Sunday report and more than three hours of newly released body camera footage from the May 24 tragedy amounted to the fullest account to date of one of the worst school shootings in U.S. history. Some families blasted police as cowards and demanded resignations.
Frank Straub, director of the National Policing Institute’s Center for Targeted Violence Prevention, said the chaos surrounding who was the incident commander at the scene is one thing that departments that work together normally practice. While the situation created confusion, the basic point that was missed was still getting to the shooter as quickly as possible.
“The obligation is to neutralize the shooter. Stop the shooting, stop the bleeding. That’s the sequence,” said Straub, a former police chief. “As protective equipment arrived on scene, ballistic vests, ballistic helmets, by protocol they should have kept going. It was their obligation to stop the shooting.”
Even during the lulls in the shooting, “there had to be the realization that there were students and teachers in those classrooms and if they were going to survive” they needed immediate medical attention, he said.
They all should have stayed home and sent in Elisjsha Dicken.
So…now comments are simply being obliterated? Not just “held for moderation”, but now I get a message stating that my comment was not posted because I’m “submitting too many comments” and was deleted entirely? I posted my previous comment like an entire hour ago!
What the heck? Now there’s a limit on how many comments WordPress/TTAG will allow?
In the past I have posted links on seperate post entries. That seems to work here.
The conservative Supreme Court justices, led by right wing authoritarian justice Anthony Scalia ruled that police have no duty to protect individual citizens.
The liberal justices dissented, but were overruled.
CASTLE ROCK v. GONZALES [04-278]
“Scalia, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which Rehnquist, C. J., and O’Connor, Kennedy, Souter, Thomas, and Breyer, JJ., joined. Souter, J., filed a concurring opinion, in which Breyer, J., joined. Stevens, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which Ginsburg, J., joined.“
MINOR Miner49 Since when it is “authoritarian to follow the Constitution as WRITTEN?
The fact is MINOR that the police has no duty to protect. They are a REACTIVE force. If it were the case that the police had a duty to protect, there would have to be a police officer for each one of us.
Seems you and your Leftist cronies don’t have a clue!
“The fact is MINOR that the police has no duty to protect.”
Just as we’ve always known, your motto “To Protect and Serve” is bullshit.
MINOR Miner49er, No, Lefty, it’s not “bullshit”. But it limits the civil exposure that the police have to nuisance law suits tht people like you are famous for. Funny how you left out the part of my post where I pointed out that police are a “reactive force”. I guess that escaped you? But then that does not fit your agenda, does it?
You were a prison security guard. A glorified mall cop. That’s it.
The slogan to protect and serve doesn’t refer to the public. It refers to cops protecting and serving the interests of the managerial elite. They are a reaction force to protect those interests and serving themselves.
cgray and Bad Hat Harry I have a RED HOT NEWS FLASH for you. I was a POLICE Officer for 10 yrs before I went into Corrections. Fir your edification and CO has the same authority as a police officer/ That slogan has NOTHING to do with the “interests of the managerial elite”. You Leftists need to wake up. Maybe after you are mugged or robbed you will realize that the police have a tough enough job without your nonsense.
When do they do their job?
FYI I am no lefty. Both the tarded defund the police black lives matter crowd and the boot licking blue lives matter crowd are equally stupid, just in different ways. Two ends of the stupid horseshoe. Also you prove how cops always circle the wagons to protect bad officers and departments.
Also LOL at you being clueless about the managerial elite. They are your left leaning anti gun bosses who issue your orders. If they had their way all the little people would be disarmed,, own nothing, eat bugs, live in pods, and be happy about it or else. As long as there are LEO crarveouts you are happy..
Bad Hat Harry, so on a few (very few) issues you are not in lock step with your Leftist masters. BFD!
Seems the clueless one here is you, by Leftist adversary. The “managerial élite”? What even the hell is that? Police do defend other police when they believe that the officer was correct in his decision. I have also seen numerous times where a police officer was turned in by a fellow office when he was outside the scope of his duties.
I suggest if you think (LOL) you can do a better job, take the test, pass the background investigation and the physical and physical agility exams and take the job. I seriously doubt you could measure up.
Ten years as a cop, wally? Really? Are you sure you didn’t say it was six years, immediately prior to elevating it to ten years the very next day? I am… beverly.
Egregious incompetence. Criminally and civilly liable.
Does a coroners report provide an assessment on how many people possibly bled out?
Or is that gonna have to wait for all the civil lawsuits?
“Criminally and civilly liable“
There will be no effective lawsuits, the conservative justices on the Supreme Court have granted qualified immunity to all law-enforcement officials:
“WASHINGTON, June 30(Reuters) – The U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday refused to revive civil rights lawsuits against jail staff and police in two cases from Texas in which these officials were granted a protection called “qualified immunity” after being accused of misconduct.”
“Liberal Justice Sonia Sotomayor dissented in the Supreme Court’s action in Monroe’s case, as she did along with the other two liberal justices, Stephen Breyer and Elena Kagan, in the other case involving the death of Gabriel Eduardo Olivas in Arlington. Breyer officially retired from the court on Thursday.“
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-supreme-court-rebuffs-challenges-texas-qualified-immunity-cases-2022-06-30/
The very worst part (not really, but still) was that cop who gets the hand sanitizer. Trivial, didn’t mean much in the grand scheme, but emblematic of the incompetence of the whole response. Boil that whole cluster down to a few representative moments, and that’s it.
“Oh, look! Free hand sanitizer! I’ll take some; it’s not like I have anything else to do until after lunch.”
If ANY of those cops had an iota of conscience, he’d turn in his badge.
Arredondo had a good day. His authoriteh was respected, he went home, and thanked for his qualified immunity.
The problem with civil liability is that the taxpayers pick up the bill, not the incompetent cops involved in this fiasco. If the individual cops had to pay, I would agree 100% but the families of the deceased will be taking money from their friends and neighbors. No, insurance won’t cover it. And, yes, the attorneys will wind up with most of the award. Most small political entities don’t have million dollar policies. The really astute ones have excess coverage policies, but smaller entities aren’t that smart. In any event, judgements mean increases in policy costs, so even if the insurance companies pay out big time, they will recoup it in increased costs of coverage which Joe Taxpayer will wind up picking up one way or another.
Systemization of thought: the tendency in bureaucracies to substitute routine procedures and org charts for rational and/or principled decision-making.
And to think this entire situation would have been averted had the teachers and other employees at the Uvalde school, simply followed the established safety protocols by keeping the 3 doors on the west side of the school Locked. Instead of leaving them unlocked for the convenience of teachers to retrieve items from their vehicles and substitute teachers who hadn’t been issued keys to enter and leave the school. Without passing through the Secured Front entrance as Safety Protocols called for. 19 children and 2 teachers died for the want and convenience of unlocked doors.
Security begins with the school and by all accounts there was nada, nothing. All the knee jerk finger pointing hoopla made over the gun and the police provides cover for the school personnel whose incompetence made sitting ducks out of children.
This level of “incompetence” seems as though it may have been intentional. Remember the goon in charge supported Beto and Beto’s gun confiscation plans.
They are blaming “non compliant” teachers for the massacre. Since nearly all the teachers n cops were of the Spanglish persuasion I’m fairly certain it’s a dig on Mexican’s. Deserved or not…
That is a very good point. This was not a “white” or “black” school. And the shooter was a “brown” skin. The Usual Suspects are going to have a tough time trying to fit this massacre into their narrative.
Seems like the principal and others knowing about these doors should be sued into the poor house.
Case for negligence?
“this entire situation would have been averted had the teachers and other employees at the Uvalde school, simply followed the established safety protocols by keeping the 3 doors on the west side of the school Locked. Instead of leaving them unlocked for the convenience of teachers“
This statement is not correct.
“Texas officials confirm that the teacher shut the door
After the teacher’s account emerged, the Texas DPS confirmed the essential details in her lawyer’s statement.
Should Robb Elementary be rebuilt? Here’s what other school shooting sites did
UVALDE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL SHOOTING
Should Robb Elementary be rebuilt? Here’s what other school shooting sites did
“We did verify she closed the door,” Travis Considine, chief communications officer for Texas DPS, told The Associated Press. He added that the door should have locked when it closed, but it didn’t: “The door did not lock. We know that much and now investigators are looking into why it did not lock.”
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/01/1102355422/uvalde-shooting-teacher-door
MINOR Miner49er, Horse Pucky! If the door was closed properly, the perp would not have gotten through the door. It’s called COMMON SENSE. Something you Lefties seem to lack. Seems your “Texas Officials” are UNIDENTIFIED? Seems someone is doing the ole coverup.
No one is coming, you are your own first responder.
And if your counting on these clowns your already dead…
Uvalde School Shooting Response Failures Will ‘Set Back Law Enforcement 20 Years and 77 minutes.’
There ya go… fixed it for you.
Or it could change the current Incident Management System and have much better trained DPS personnel override an insufficient local yokel response team.
In theory an elected Sheriff is the senior law enforcement officer in a county.
It would seem then that in such situations that are not resolved before the arrival a the Sheriff or a sheriff’s deputy the first of such agency to arrive on scene should by default become the scene commander, no matter how many faux stars the School District commander pins to his collar.
A known and established and FOLLOWED chain of command is mandatory in such chaotic situations.
School District police on site.
Local police arrive – senior officer takes command
State police arrive, senior State officer assumes command
Sheriff or deputy arrives – Sheriff’s Department takes command
Federal officers arrive – crowd control.
All school security/ officers should not be a school entity, thats the beginning of the problem. All schools , maybe most schools are steeped in incompetence. They were incompetent about the security measures and their employees (security) were not even there. They should have been there, walking around making sure doors were locked and protocols were being followed. in Texas, you can get in legal trouble for failure to render aid at a traffic accident if no other help has arrived. I would call Uvalde an extreme case of failure to render aid.
I doubt that this can be fixed by training. Possibly by testosterone patches. More likely, it will be fixed only by skin-in-the-game.
A police officer has nearly no liability for any failure to act. He is loyal first to himself, and secondly to his loved ones. He has every motivation to hang-back and await orders from a superior. The very last thing he wants to do is run to the sound of gunfire. Instinct drives first and foremost to self-preservation.
I do not hold that this is true for every police officer. Plenty of examples of heroes in blue. Nevertheless, we can review history and show that what I have described occurs all too often. And our police agencies have had decades to review and accommodate with better tactics.
We can’t solve school shootings with wishful thinking and greater resolve to depend upon the police. We can’t solve school shootings with reliance on the chiefs of police who have failed in allocating resources to stopping school shootings. Police chiefs report to mayors who are first and foremost concerned with revenue from traffic fines. That’s the way the system works and we, as voters, aren’t going to change the motivations of mayors.
Gun control advocates are, by definition, gun control advocates. Whatever it takes to advance this agenda. What could be more effective than more children bleeding out in classrooms? Where are the parents’ cries for guidance from experts in security?
What is it that the smart money is doing? Ask Mayor Bloomberg why he has 15 “retired” NYPD officers on his payroll.
maybe.
being an election year we’ll see more.
More effort to correct the systemic incompetence or more Mass Shootings™?
Both.
To be fair if they didn’t rush to the scene to stand around they might have had to do actual work back on their beats. And I’m sure plenty of those 370+ we’re eager to grab some sweet OT.
How many cops does it take to stop one man? Maybe try 400 next time.
The question is not how many cops to stop one madman, but do you have even one cop, male or female, with the courage to go through that door and take care of business?
The answer to your question is one citizen willing and armed.
Carry everywhere that you do not have to go through metal detectors or submit to search, legal or not.
That’s what happens with the Incident Command System they’ve tried to force on everyone since 9/11.
Instead of anyone taking charge no one took charge. The old system worked
Set back 20 years? Nonsense.
The proper course of action is to punish those who failed so miserably. Run them out of law enforcement. Seriously, take them to court, find them guilty of cowardice, guilty of every charge possible, then sentence them to appropriate punishments. And, make it a condition for all of those found guilty that they CAN NEVER WORK IN LAW ENFORCEMENT AGAIN! Something equivalent to the military’s dishonorable discharge is in order here.
Perhaps we can’t put Arredondo in prison for fifty years (as he deserves), or even ten years. But we need his fat arse run out of government, and ensure that he never serves again.
Texas needs to ensure that no ISD “police chief” ever again takes command of an emergency situation. I see ISD police as little more than custodians. The janitor has a responsibility to call in the law when he sees a problem, but when the real law arrives, the custodian takes a back seat, follows orders, offers pertinent information like layout of the school, etc etc. The janitor doesn’t assume command of local, state, and federal emergency personnel.
THAT was the one thing that contributed to all other shortcomings.
No janitors in command!
While this is an understandable response given what we now know about Uvalde, it is hardly practical in light of the Supreme Court decisions already ruling that law enforcement has no duty to protect individual citizens, only to enforce the law.
I suspect the worst any of them could be punished for is failure to enforce the law as they stood around listening to gunshots inside that schoolroom. The effects of that failure may or may not be the subject of civil suits but is most probably not criminal on their part.
That said, the agencies involved could and possibly should review the actions of each officer on scene and determine if they failed to enforce the laws they KNEW were being violated in their presence or if they were PREVENTED from enforcing those laws even when they showed a willingness to do so.
You are correct, the conservative justices on the Supreme Court have repeatedly reaffirmed that the police have no duty to protect the citizens from any particular threat.
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/545/748.html#:~:text=Respondent%20alleges%20that%20petitioner%2C%20the,that%20her%20estranged%20husband%20was
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-supreme-court-rebuffs-challenges-texas-qualified-immunity-cases-2022-06-30/
MINOR Miner49er Again, you spread Leftist propaganda. It seems that you have, again, forgotten that the Police are a REACTIVE Force.
In the matter of Uvalde, however because of the lame decisions of the police chief, there may still be civil liability in spite of the Supreme Court decision.
Most of those cops are so fat they couldn’t run a hundred yards. If they confronted the shooter, half of them would have died of massive heart attacks. Cops these days are a joke. An absolute joke. For many reasons, but the principal reason is they aren’t allowed to do their jobs.
Confront a hoodlum on the street? Not worth the trouble and mountain of paperwork, and an overzealous lefty prosecutor will more than likely send my a** to prison. I’ll just sit here and drink coffee and eat donuts.
Disband the whole works. A waste of money. The same goes for public schools. What a joke.
Bingo! If Government entities can’t do their job then we should take back our delegated powers. Homeschooling is the only way forward for our children. At least in a homeschool, all the staff can be armed meaning the parents. And even some of the children can be armed. I’ve never heard of a homeschool or even a homeschool co-OP being shot up. If you have school-age children, please take them out of the government indoctrination centers and homeschool them. It’ll be new and different but anybody can do it if you have the will.
drink FREE coffee and eat FREE donuts.
“Disband the whole works. A waste of money“
Gasp!
Defund the police?
Fascinating.
MINOR Miner49er, I am sure you would love to “defund the police”. After all they stymie your Leftist violent demonstrations when they are properly lead.
I’d take Beam over 400 chubby, pants-wetting cops any day. They’re useless on a good day, cancerous on a bad one.
Well, defund, and imprison. Every one is a criminal. Even retired ones, and those still in academy.
We’re going to need a bigger Alcatraz.
Who bounced you on your gourd when you were a baby?
Well, Beam, it seems you are way off the beam. The police are a “REACTIVE FORCE”. IN the matter of Uvalde, the police chief was/is incompetent. If you expect police to make the correct decision each and every time, you unfortunately forget the we get police from the same place we get people like you. the human race.
Looks like a lot of us who questioned the LEO response in the first days after the shooting, questioned the length of time to take out one 18 year-old plebe with his first AR, especially considering all the gear and armament and training citizens pay for, well, it looks like we were right.
True. Rather interesting that nobody’s telling us to shut up any more.
In fact, it looks like people were repeating outright misinformation from Uvalde’s PR department to protect the thick blue blob outside the building.
Here is the response I got from my Representative about my opposition to his support for gun control that recently passed the House and Senate. They really do not care about the 2nd Amendment.
Thank you for contacting me about legislation addressing gun violence. I value your input on something so important.
My responsibility is to represent my constituents in Congress. I believe we must take action to implement common-sense gun safety measures. The acts of gun violence we’ve seen in the past few weeks and in recent months make it clear that the threat posed by guns has not diminished. We must not allow mass shootings and gun violence to continue to be the norm. I support sensible gun control measures to protect our communities, schools, and houses of worship.
Some of my constituents have raised concerns regarding H.R. 127, Sabika Sheikh Firearm Licensing and Registration Act and H.R. 121, Gun Violence Reduction Resources Act. As you may know, H.R. 127 would create licensing and registration requirements to possess firearms and ammunition, and would prohibit the possession of certain ammunition. These requirements include criminal background checks, psychological evaluations, and training courses, among other gun safety measures. H.R. 121 would allow the Department of Justice to hire 200 additional Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents and investigators to enforce gun laws.
Both H.R. 127 and H.R. 121 were introduced by U.S. Representative Sheila Lee Jackson (D-TX) and have been referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary. While I am not a member of that Committee, I will keep your thoughts in mind should either H.R. 127 or H.R. 121 be brought before the full House of Representatives for a vote.
I appreciate where you are coming from and respect your devotion to your beliefs. I am committed to maintaining a dialogue with constituents such as yourself so that I can understand your views and ensure that all members of Illinois’ Sixth Congressional District have a voice in Washington.
Thank you, again, for taking the time to engage with me. I hope that you continue to reach out in the future whenever there is anything I can do for you. It is an honor to be your U.S. Representative.
Sincerely,
Rep. Sean Casten
Member of Congress
J
This seems to be an all too common response these days.
Note: the word “gun” or “firearm” was used 10 times in his response and zero(0) mentions of punishment of criminals. The entire letter is condescending, just like so many others coming out of D C these days.
They tell you to bug off without using the words!
That’s a pretty much canned response. I think they all pass it around and just change a few words here and there. Mine were basically the same from two of my representatives.
Its the politicians non-commital answer.
I used to work for a member of Congress. They do not care about anyone except substantial donors, the letters are written by staffers and parrot general nonsense of the Rep., who stands up for nothing but his own career.
Sounds exactly like the Boiler Plate responses I got from Sens. Bennett and Lickshispooper (Hickenlooper). Luckily, our Districts Rep’d by Lauren Boebert, who has opposed any Gun Control.
“The sound of screaming children has been removed and replaced with blaring Benny Hill music.”
They fiddle as Rome burns.
If you were to look into all of our mass/school shootings, you will most likely find that inactivity, cowardice, liberal or sheepish command staff, or lack of real useful training allowed many more deaths to be achieved by the mass shooters….Now, Cops are always concerned or threatened about lawsuits and being hung out to dry…They are reminded daily to stay out of gray areas and follow strict policy guidelines …They are always on cameras, big brother and gps tracking…..everything they do is scrutinized and monday morning quarterbacked….a swat team is not a kill team any longer, but a wound or non lethal team instead…The killers have set goals, while the cops MUST sift through a list of “PROGRESSIONS”….AND YES THE SKIN TONE AND POLITICAL FACTORS THESE DAYS, TOO…..Cops have been spayed and neutered…. HECK, pretty soon we will have a bunch of British Bobbies running around….
Grow up. Cops have so many legal protections it’s insane; they’re basically untouchable. I’ll agree that the overzealously litigious nature of our society has caused a lot of problems, but police inaction certainly isn’t one.
it stinks around you because you are full of the stuff… go to one of you little blm protest…Colorodo says it all…
None of those 376 officers had a view of the classroom through the windows?
If they did, why did no one see the shooter and take the shot?
So many unanswered questions.
Catering trucks must have been blocking the view.
Open the unlocked hallway door and toss 4 or 5 flashbangs, go in hot. Most kids would be stunned but alive instead of everybody dead.
Or even easier… flashbangs through the window first. Then go through the door.
“flashbangs through the window first. Then go through the door“
Correct.
Before you start commenting on police tactics, I suggest you to to the Academy first?
And wally, before you start commenting on how you were a cop, might I suggest you at least get your years spent in uniform correct? Jus sayin…
The teachers who want to stop other teachers from voluntarily carrying guns should be fired. Same goes for the School principals.
The Far Right Morons still claim teachers who are not even gun people can stop a maniac with body armor and an assault rifle when the Goon Cops could not do it with almost 376 men on the scene.
The cops, those same cops you want to regulate our 2a rights, didn’t even try.
If a teacher tries and fails how is that making the situation worse. And if they succeed we all win.
You really are that ignorant and uneducated, aren’t you?
You are such a moron d! This loser wasn’t even wearing body armor. Plus, as a teacher, if somebody is shooting at you would probably shoot back. Or even better, set up an ambush position and shoot the perp in the head when he comes thru the door. And women will fight like banshees to protect the ones they love unlike you. The teacher will know exactly what’s going on and be able to deal with the situation. Unlike these cowardly LEOs who didn’t know the situation completely and then didn’t act.
Dacian:
The problem was the 376 cops. In such a scenario nobody is in command, and nobody is responsible. It’s the same old “safety in numbers” routine. What ever happened to dedicated SWAT teams???
See Cliff H’s comments at 12:41.
This is how the Incident Command System (ICS) is supposed to work.
Even CERT members are taught this simple procedure.
It is amazing that out of the 376 or LEOs on scene that none who knew better did not do better!
Commissar Dacian will make sure the shirkers and malingerers will die for the Motherland.
There is the canard. No one says arm all teachers, just those who are willing to take the responsibility. There are many types of people who are teachers, even combat veterans. You don’t have to be trained as a Delta Force operator to stop a threat, you don’t even have to have half the training of Barney Fife. People defend themselves all the time without all these training classes and do so successfully. Someone fully invested in the safety of children would have more chances of success of the 370 officers combined.
You say the cops couldn’t do it, but you attribute the failure to factors not involved. There is one reason why they couldn’t do it, they didn’t try. Hat tip to JWM, I concur with his evaluation.
dacian the Dunderhead, It seems there was an “untrained” young man that did just that and stopped a mass murderer with eight well placed shots.
I suggest you wake up and try learning about firearms before you comment any further.
We are still waiting for your answer to the question: What is the firing sequence of a cartridge?
And we are still waiting for you to come clean on six years as a cop or ten years. I mean, it can’t be both now, can it, wally?
Dacian, sucks my sweaty ball sack! An armed teacher on scene only has 2 choices, fight or die. According to the Art Of War that’s when you are most successful. This whole thing was done to get rid of our guns. I will not let teachers wiggle out of their responsibility for the safety of their students. If you are uncomfortable with guns good! You will be safer with them. How can you look at a parent who lost their baby because you are a chicken shit?
“This whole thing was done to get rid of our guns“
Would you please expand upon your statement, I’d love to hear some details.
MINOR Miner49er Are you absolutely unaware of the efforts in NYS and California to restrict UNCONSTTUTIONALLY our 2nd A rights?
Why do you care? You support the exact people who will literally do the restricting of said rights! You support the militant arm of those tyrants. Hell, you just admitted you’re one of them.
You really have no right at all to insult Miner or Daclan or these other leftos, because you’re far more like THEM than you’ll ever admit.
A. MIssissippiensis, WRONG. I do not support anyone restricting our 2nd Amendment rights. I have every right to insult those ninnies, MINOR Miner49er and dacian the Dunderhead. Neither have the intelligence or commonsense of an amoeba.
Q: How many cops does it take to stop one teenage putz with a rifle from committing mass murder?
A: Nobody knows because it’s never been done.
Yet in Indiana, a similar shooter was killed in 15sec by an “untrained” armed citizen.
This incident will not set law enforcement back 20 yrs, but it will make respect for police much more difficult.
The Chief of Police in Uvalde, TX should be fired. There was no way once shots were fired should he have treated it like a “hostage” situation .
First Rule of police response is when shots are fired, first responding police go in
Walter:
Exactly!
Was it taking that long to get a few million dollars and a plane to Cuba organized?
The incompetent “Chief” at the school (the Incident Commander) was the SCHOOL district police dept Chief. Exactly why it the concept of a School District Police Dept is so idiotic.
Under NIMS there is no provision for someone/anyone to, thru coup, to replace an incompetent IC (Incident Commander). Similar to the Captain of a ship. His scene to do with as he will/can. On a ship I guess an Executive Officer can relieve a failed Captain thru some (legal) means. I’m not aware of such a provision under NIMS. And an emergency scene time is probably much more critical that something going on aboard a ship that is putting along at 15knots.
DEFINITION OF A HERO. Raymond Chandler, quote. “down these mean streets a man must go who is not himself mean, who is neither tarnished nor afraid. HE IS THE HERO; he is everything. He must be a complete man and a common man and yet an unusual man.
Wally, did you read that during the six years you were a cop or during the ten years you were a cop?
Riderless/ShootOff Canuck. Ten years, dummy, 10 years. And when I read it is inconsequential. But then you are inconsequential. (sigh)
Your words, wally: six years. Your words. Magically marked up to ten right after. Wanna explain that? I’ve given you plenty of opportunity…
All the LEO’s made it home safe that day. That’s the main thing.
The Uvalde PD actually had a press conference on the Saturday after the shooting where they directly stated how grateful they are that no law enforcement people were injured or killed.
“It was a calamity of errors.”
It was a calamity of cowardice.
If my kid would have been murdered in that skool I’d want me some payback and I dont mean money.
Texas needs to lynch that murderer on Ulvade’s county courthouse lawn.
I’m serious, televise it too.
Hang his naked dead body from a lightpost and allow victims parents to take their turn with knifes, bats, blowtorch, sawzall, etc.
Human pinata while undergoing a slow hanging.
The shooter is already dead. Or are you talking about the police chief?
Possum, I would absofuckinglutely be in the ground or in jail by now.
If the Uvalde response doesn’t do it for you, there’s lots of video of police acting as the jackbooted thugs of the regime, both here and abroad. An individual officer may yet be a good guy, but en mass, you had better believe they’ll follow orders when they’re told to come for your guns, or your kids, or to come break you for your politics on social media. And lastly, if God forbid this culture war we’re in ever goes hot, we’ve already seen who’s side they’ll take. Spoiler alert: not ours.
It may well set back law enforcement in UVALDE until changes are made in the command structure and training regimes but they can be rectified in months Not elfin years. No doubt other Police Authorities are also taking heed of what happened at UVALDE as well but the fact is that the majority of police Authorites in the USA WOULD, and have, have performed much better than those at Uvalde.
But I’d be willing to bet that most of the people under who’s jurisdiction the Uvalde Police came knew perfectly well that their Police Department was not up to much They must have noticed that most of the Officers, at least those that were on that infamous video, were fat useless tools. Strike fear into the evildoer they would not!!
The thing is most decent people don’t want to be LEOs. The few who do tend not want to be one for long, often leaving after beingbordered to do something shady. LE attracts low IQ power hungry Aholes who want power to push others around. Slightly smarter Aholes go into politcs.
Police won’t protect you but will arrest you if you try to protect yourself.
Bad Hat Harry, that is ONE LONG BOLD FACED LIE! Unfortunately we have to deal this dimwitted jerks like you.
That’s pretty rich coming from you, wally, a known liar yourself. Rich indeed. Perhaps you could “edificate” (your favorite, albeit ridiculously incorrect, big word) us all on the discrepancy in your two opposing time frames of years spent in uniform? Six or ten, wally, which was it and why the glaring and immediate upgrade? Or could it be possibly be zero years spent in form?
Rider, I don’t know you @ all, But, I believe it is safe to say that I personally would rather have you fighting on my side ‘shoulder to shoulder’ than have you comin’ @ me @ 100mph ready to tear me a new (unwanted, not my idea of a good time) recital pathway!
Because Brother you are a TERRIER! (or is that Terror???? hmmmm?) When you get something in your teeth like W.E.B3 years as a Cop…You could give ‘Possum” a run for his carnivory money! I say this with respect: R/S jus’ Let it go Brother. We don’t need to be swiping @ each other @ this critical time. We have enough enemies ‘0ut there!’ as it is. We don’t need to make more. And we already have our ‘fill’ w/ “In-house crazi3s like the many mindz of ‘Darcy the Dope ‘ and the My-nor 49errrrrrrrrrrr and his many flavorz of nutbar, I don’t want anymore. So, my unasked for advice is for most of us on this site as well is …’ Keep Calm, and Carry on!. (But Always Carry!)’. I didn’t write it, I just try to live by it!
When the ‘Fritter’s hit the Ventilators’ WE are going to be ALL we ‘ve got! ( I think Mel Gibson said a similar line in ‘We’z Was Sojer’s’).
With all the Pressure the ‘Dim’s’ are under right now, I wouldn’t put a ‘Door 2 Door’ Event past them to try and get (1) in the Win column. They’re Desperate. And as most 2 Aer’s’ know, ‘Never push a Marsupial (No matter how Kute!) into a corner! Yule hopefully live to regret it ! And that is just what ‘Bedpan Biden’ and his ‘Elitist’s’ are doing to us now. They think they can still recover and save face NOW before the end year elections wipe them out!
They won’t. But I will end this by suggesting all ‘We the People’ should be responsible for 12′ of durable rope each citizen. I have a feeling we ae going to have a shelf emptying shortage of Hemp very soon.
God Bless Brother’s and be a little forgiving for the wretched D and Mi49 , For they know not what they do.
Indeed. The last thing decent people want to do is spend their days taking others’ property and freedom under threat of violence.
Why does a city of 20,000 need a Police Dept., a dedicated School Police Depr., and a Sheriff’s Dept.? Too many Chiefs and not enough or the wrong kind of Indians maybe?
IMHO, this incident demonstrates the failure of the system Uvalde and its school board adopted. Obviously, all three agencies couldn’t get their sh*t together. Add in the Fed Boys and it became a Fustercluck.
One off duty officer, took the initiative while 400 various Officer spanked their monkeys.
One Officer, doing what should ha e been done from the very beginning.
As a retired police officer, it is unconscionable to me that these officers stood around and failed to take immediate action to stop the massacre. Every officer that was present and failed to act in a timely manner should have their certifications revoked so that they are never allowed carry a badge and gun again. They should also be held criminally liable for negligence and official misconduct. I am sure that many of them will face civil liability action and possible federal civil-rights violations. As a law enforcement officer, you are given a badge and gun for a reason. Your primary mission is to protect the public. If you can’t or won’t put the public’s safety first, you need to find another profession. There was absolutely no excuse for their in-action at Uvalde.
As a retired chief L.E.O. I am appalled by some of the remarks some of you have made but I don’t blame you for your anger. After Colombine police were trained to go straight to the shooter and take him out and not wait. That is a fact. I went thru that training years ago and everyone that was on the force was trained to do so also. If two or more came to the scene at the same time they were taught how to move as well as three to the scene. They were not trained to wait under any circumstances. Everyone that has objected to their waiting has the best interest at heart for the children and should rightfully be angry and demand accountability. What bothers me is the stupid remarks about donuts and all cops being lazy and not trying to protect. The reason an officer goes to any crime scene is to hope to stop the crime in progress. The reason they are protected by courts is because they can’t be everywhere at the same time and the number of lawsuits, frivolous and otherwise, would bankrupt the community they serve. The people they serve have made many police “gun shy” to the extent that police killings have nearly doubled the past year under Bidens and liberal’s elections of DA’s that turn criminals loose with minimum or no bail. Some have been arrested more than 15 times and find their way back on the street to commit worse felonies. I don’t know the answer to all the problems, but an armed community of good people is appreciated by most good cops. Police moral is at an all-time low and the officers involved in this school shooting did nothing but tarnish the thousands of good cops that would have given that school shooter a burial plot. I can’t defend any of them and in many communities, this would not have taken place. Generalizing about LEO officers is like generalizing about any other profession-there are good and bad in both. The bad should face consequences and if not each one, the leadership in the school and the police force should step down and face civil liability.
They should do time for their lack of action!!!
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