Earlier today Texas Department of Public Safety Steve McCraw gave an update on the timeline and chain of events of the recent school shooting in Uvalde. His statements were, to put it mildly, jaw dropping.
After reviewing much of the video evidence, we now know how the shooter gained easy access into the school.
A teacher had propped a door open.
We don’t know why yet, and there’s no reason to assume any collusion, but the teacher tragically propped a door open roughly one minute before the shooter crashed his truck and began the attack.
The shooter then walked for 40 to 60 feet, unopposed, into an open pair of classrooms.
According to the DPS director, the shooter then fired “more than 100 rounds…at least 100 rounds”.
Within two minutes of entering the school, three Uvalde Police Department officers attempted to open the locked school room door and were fired on, receiving what would be non-life threatening wounds. They then called for backup.
While those three officers were attempting to get to the shooter, two volunteer officers and a Sheriff’s deputy began evacuating the school.
At that point, things went from bad to much, much worse.
The on-scene incident commander, who appears to be the school district police chief, notifies on-scene and arriving officers that the “active shooter” incident is over, and now they have a “barricaded subject” situation.
In the words of DPS Director McCraw:
He was convinced at the time that there was no more threat to the children and that the subject was barricaded and that they had time to organize.
Of course, it was not the right decision. It was the wrong decision.
It is not yet known how such an incredibly bad call was made. Even as at least one student inside the classroom was speaking with a 911 dispatcher, the on-scene commander apparently told everyone there was no more danger to the children, according to what McCraw said today at his press conference.
At one point during that time there were additional shots fired, but at least some, and maybe all, of those shots were at the door itself. We don’t yet know if any kids were shot as the officers remained outside the classroom.
Staff were looking for a janitor with a key, negotiations with the shooter had started, and officers staged for entry.
McCraw’s report today sheds light on why officers outside were waiting. They were being told that there was no more threat to the children. They were told that the shots they heard were being fired at the officers at the door. That was at least half wrong.
We don’t know why yet, but someone, and we don’t know who or exactly when, finally made the call that it was in-fact still an active shooter event, countermanding the original assessment from the on-scene commander.
A tactical team, using the key they’d obtained and led by CPS Border Tactical Agents, stormed the room and killed the shooter. One of the entry team members took a grazing shot to the head upon entry.
As for how the shooter got his weapons, according to DPS, a young man, who had recently quit his job at Wendy’s, used a debit card to purchase two rifles (at least one of which was an $1,800 Daniel Defense AR), 60 magazines, and over 1,600 rounds of ammunition, at least some of which were with him in his backpack.
Based on the evidence presented so far, this entire tragedy may have been stopped simply by keeping doors closed and locked. Complacency kills.
“I was misled,” Republican Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said about the information he received on police response to the Uvalde shooting. “I am livid about what happened.” https://t.co/GtHculPZMs
— The Hill (@thehill) May 27, 2022
What also kills is bad assumptions, or maybe wanting a situation to be something it is not. Either way, the on-site incident commander’s call to end the “active shooter” response and switch to a “barricaded suspect” role appears simply unimaginable, in hindsight. I’m sure we’ll be hearing a lot more about what factors led him to that deadly error in judgement.
Unimaginable Error or perfectly executed FBI false flag opp.
Latest sounds like the police dropped the ball, school dropped the ball and the perp ran with it. Never mind all of that and the insane perp just grab a megaphone and slander the NRA.
Everyone in Texas should lay their Guns at the feet of those waving their glorious Gun Control Flag…the flag history confirms is rooted in racism and genocide.
One one hand you have an insane murderous perp and on the other hand you have the ultra insanity of those selling their knee jerk Gun Control rot…rot that provides soft targets for criminals and tyrants around the world.
Before you can have a false flag, you must first display a flag. Which one was this guy flying? It sure looks to me like he was acting on his own behalf, for obscure and incomprehensible reasons.
“Before you can have a false flag, you must first display a flag.”
In the circumstance, the “flag” is the actual shooter, supposedly acting of their own accord, for their own individual reasons. The “false” is that while the shooter is acting in own interest, an agent provocateur is behind the scenes prepping the shooter, and manipulating the shooter into a mass shooting in service to a political agenda of eliminating privately owned firearms.
A “false flag” operation is simply something appearing as one thing, while actually being something else, altogether.
That is the wackiest shit I’ve ever heard. Why do people insist on making up insane stories. Secret government agents tricking people into shooting kids? I assume you also believe in Pizzagate and the Illuminati. Give me a fucking break!
“Why do people insist on making up insane stories.”
Why did you make up a stupid phony user name like ‘djskwmeej’, whatever the fvck that is?
Geoff actually is my name, what’s yours, coward?
(Something tells me you won’t have the balls to answer truthfully…)
djskwmeej we know our government has lied us into 2 world wars and numerous smaller ones with fake incidents and lies.
Some of those were just happy coincidences that they took advantage of (the Maine blowing up). Others were actually planned by our government.
Some events were a combination. For example the US government did not bomb Pearl Harbor. But it is not a coincidence that the shiny new aircraft carriers were out on maneuvers and all of the old leftover WWI ships the navy had been wanting to replace were sitting there when the Japs finally had enough of us poking them with a stick for years and lashed back.
We know many, but I am sure not all, of the amazing and crazy things the CIA has done in other countries. When we see similarities here is it really that insane to be suspicious? The 2020 election boondoggle looks an awful lot like stuff the CIA is well known for in other places.
We know a lot about MK Ultra and COINTELPRO and the things they did to American citizens. It was the CIA that was supplying LSD to the Manson family, for example.
Propaganda has been used extensively here for a long time to mold and shape public opinion (Huns bayoneting and eating babies).
Then there is finance. I couldn’t have bought this kids load out on short notice and I have a well developed professional career. So how did he get the money for 2 expensive rifles, 1600 rounds of 5.56 at today’s prices, and 60 magazines? By working at Wendy’s? Maybe I need to reconsider my career path. Do you want fries with that?
I probably have about that many AR mags. Well, probably a few more. But I brag all the time about how I bought most of them at crazy sale prices (<$5) from dealers who were stuck with them after the manufacturer politically fucked up and got boycotted. I couldn't go buy 60 new full priced mags at 2022 prices all at once. Did this kid really save up thousands of dollars, most of which he would have hd to have before he even turned 18? Over half of my AK mags were "slightly rusty" and sold cheaper than the AR mags. An overnight soak in cola and a coating of grill paint is enough to restore them. The vast majority of my Glock mags in calibers were LEO surplus, resold cheap when departments switched guns. Some of them are even AWB LEO marked.
But this kid could buy an $1800 rifle, another rifle, 1600 rounds and 60 mags from working at Wendy's?
Something is rotten in Denmark. Maybe it's all explainable. Maybe it's all a coincidence. Maybe he was able to be very far sighted with his finances but short sighted with other life decisions. But our government has done enough fishy and underhanded things over the years that we don't trust it. And if anything looks askew we assume the worst.
Now read the father’s interview.
The father…” blamed his son’s reportedly drug-addicted mother Adriana Reyes for not buying him more clothes. He said that he was often bullied at school for wearing the same pants every day.”
At least $6K to $9K in gear, but could not afford a second pair of pants?
I want to know ‘how’ the police obtained the texts messages? We’re they an SMS to a person?
We’re they on a chat service like FB msngr? Or Twitter? ~Something already owned by the Feds?
This is a very important distinction and discussion that ppl seem to be not addressing.
Oh, stop… This isn’t Infowars.
“REVEALED: Female online gamer reported fellow player – now suspected to be Salvador Ramos – who threatened to ‘shoot up a school with an AR-15’ to the FBI just hours before Uvalde elementary school massacre”
“https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10856403/Dead-Daylight-player-threatened-shoot-school-AR-15-days-Texas-massacre.html”
?Buffalo shooting: Retired federal agent may have had advanced notice about shooter’s plans, report says”
“https://www.foxnews.com/us/buffalo-shooting-federal-agent-knew-shooters-plans-investigation”
BTW: you can be better informed is you occasionally listen to Alex Jonws.
What the fuck is wrong with you? It should have been sub-human ‘people’ like you, not those innocent children who died.
VerendusAudeo, chill out. Are you off your meds again?
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck it must be a False Flag:
REVEALED: Uvalde school district was part of AI program that rooted out potential mass killers and monitored social media for threats and potential shooters
“https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10853241/Uvalde-school-district-monitoring-students-social-media-pages-threats-against-staff-site.html”
I foresee a potential on scene commander suicide. That’s the kind of fok up that few people could live with.
Or he could pull a Scott Israel and get himself a cushy job as a small-town sheriff.
Towns don’t have a sheriff.
You’re right — Israel is the police chief. My mistake.
But; “there’s a new sheriff in town!”. Are you saying hollywood has been lying to us all these years?
Bottom line is you are your own first responder.
11:31 AM – Shooter approaches school, shooting at the classroom windows as he approaches.
11:31 AM – Patrol vehicles arrive at funeral home.
11:33 AM – Shooter enters the school begins firing into room 111 or 112; at least 100 rounds fired.
11:35 AM – Three Uvalde PD officers enter school through same door shooter entered, quickly followed by three more Uvalde PD and one sheriff’s deputy.
11:36 AM – Three Uvalde PD officers approach the classroom door and two receive “grazing” wounds before they retreated; THEY FALL BACK
11:37 AM – Shooter fires 16 rounds.
11:51 AM – Police sergeant arrived. (on-scene incident commander?)
12:03 PM – Additional officers arrive; “There were as many as 19 officers at that time in that hallway.”
12:03 PM – 911 call from room 112 lasting 1 minute, 23 seconds.
12:10 PM – 911 call from room 112, advised multiple are dead.
12:13 PM – 911 call from room 112.
12:16 PM – 911 call from room 111, caller reporting there are eight to nine students alive.
12:15 PM – Members of BORTAC arrived, along with shields.
12:19 PM – 911 call from room 111, caller hung up when another student told them to.
12:21 PM – Shooter fired again, “It was believed to be at the door.”
12:21 PM – 911 call from room 111.
12:21 PM – Law enforcement moved down the hallway.
12:26 PM – 911 call from student lasting 26 seconds.
12:26 PM – 911 call from the same student, reports that the killer shot the door. Student was told to stay on the line and to be very quiet.
12:46 PM – 911 caller says she can hear police next door.
12:47 PM – Asked 911 to “please send the police now.”
12:50 PM – Officers breached the locked classroom door using keys provided by the janitor.
Your timeline misses three other officers that were present at the school when the initial shots were fired inside the school. We don’t yet know if the on-site incident commander was one of them or arrived later.
There is some assumption that the original officers believed there was no-one in that classroom with the shooter, but that may be just CYA. We still have no idea what those first three officers did after they got shot. We know they called for backup, but we don’t know where from.
The descriptions are very confusing, as some say they “backed up from the steel barricaded door” and others say “backed up down the hall.”
The room appears to be a double classroom, with a door in the middle where the shooter gained access. The “hall” may be just the other room, or it may be an actual hallway. The officers may have assumed if that room was empty the other was too.
And maybe not. We don’t have enough information yet.
Also the timeline says “BORTAC arrives” but we know they didn’t all arrive at once. The officer that actually led the stack appears to have arrived separately. The timeline certainly has some big holes in it.
Having an accurate accounting of what happened is very important, and I welcome people’s input as we all sort through the ‘fog of war’ and find the facts in the heart-wrenching tragedy.
However, I read your comments yesterday and very much know, for whatever reason, you have a dog in this fight. As such saying the BORTAC team arrived separately, while likely true, is not a critical piece of the time line.
There are IMHO three critical times where much of the focus will invariably be focused;
11:27 AM – Exterior door propped open by a teacher.
11:36 AM – Three Uvalde PD officers approach the classroom door and two receive “grazing” wounds before they retreated; THEY FALL BACK
12:50 PM – Officers breached the locked classroom door using keys provided by the janitor.
With more information this may change.
Our prayers are with the families of those fallen.
Timeline,
“However, I read your comments yesterday and very much know, for whatever reason, you have a dog in this fight”
I have the same dog in this fight that you do.
We do ourselves no favors when we simply jump on the bandwagon that all cops are cowards or all police are incompetent prior to knowing any of the facts. We put cops in the position that no matter what they do, even when they are brave, even when they do their jobs right, they’ll be slandered by the ignorant.
The officer that chased the shooter in the parking lot but lost him when he ducked behind a car? Well that cop is clearly a coward, right?
The cops that chased a man with body armor and a rifle into a school, being wounded themselves, well they’re clearly cowards too, right?
The cops that, not knowing if there were any other shooters in the building, went door to door clearing the school, breaking out windows and pulling kids out, those cops are all cowards, right?
Then, after we tell every cop that they’re worthless, we demand that they do better. Why would they?
We’ve created impossible situation.
When cops make huge mistakes, call them out. When they do good, call that out too.
That’s the only dog I have in this hunt. I will say that I do know director McGraw personally and I trust him to get to the bottom of this. He made a name for himself in the FBI going after other agents and, like what we saw today, he has no problem pointing out when cops make big mistakes.
The BORTAC timeline is critical. We don’t yet know who made the call to countermand the on-site incident Commander. This might be the BORTAC team lead, so when that person gets there is important.
My wife and I have talked about situations where there is no good or right choice.
Imagine if the cops engaged in an active firefight with the shooter while he was in a classroom full of children. If it came out later that a lot of the bullet holes in the kids were made by the cops weapons there would be hell to pay.
If your kid was in a room with a mass shooter do you want the cops to get in a shootout with your kid in the background or wait and try something else while the shooter has free reign?
There is no good choice.
Add this to the beginning of the time line.
11:27 AM – Exterior door where shooter entered was propped open by a teacher.
11:28 AM – Shooter’s vehicle crashes into a ditch.
11:28 AM – Teacher runs to room 132 to retrieve her phone and door remains propped open.
11:30 AM – Teacher calls 911 to report the crash and a man with a gun.
11:31 AM – The suspect reaches last row of vehicles in the school parking lot.
What the fvck kind of a name is ‘timeline’?
You make big talk “Having a dog in the fight” while hiding behind a disposable name.
Wow. Big man, you damn sure aren’t.
Are you pee-gee-2?
That’s the kind of cowardly bullshit (and it *is* bullshit) he liked to pull in TTAG… 🙁
Awww.. “Little” Geooffery had his feelings hurt.
Apparently pee-gee-2 would be naughty to him.
So naughty in fact that “Little” Geooffery’s BUTT is now extremely HURT. 🙁
You’re dang right my butt is hurt… It is red and it is raw.
What pee-gee-2 did to me was just terrible awful things! And he did it again and again and again. 🙁
Since I have never felt the touch of a woman this was particularly unfair. 🙁 🙁
And I didn’t like it one bit… OK, maybe just a… little.
A person props open THE door (for whatever reason), then hoofs it back down the hall to retrieve her cellphone, leaving it propped open. Normally when people prop open a door, that should be closed and locked, it’s either to sneak a smoke or hide the fact that they want make a call on the down low, or both. Giving the benefit of the doubt I can see someone panicking and not close the door. Or, in a reverse manner the people who stampede the main door and run past marked, lit emergency exits. Much like the Rhode Island fire that killed 100 people. Now, here’s where the shooting could have been pre-planned. From what I’ve read it just so happens the shooter enters using THIS door. Hmm. Don’t mass shooters enter through the MAIN door? I wonder how/why the shooter’s approach used that particular door. Can’t wait to see the layout of the shooter’s approach and entry.
Addendum: the exterior door that was propped open was the MAIN entrance, not an emergency exit. Looking at overhead photos the shooter crashed his truck almost exactly in front of the main entrance. Who the hell would prop open the main entrance door? I hope that whoever propped that door open is being interrogated by whatever law enforcement agency is being assigned to run the investigation. It just seems too convenient that the door was propped just before the shooter crashed his truck.
“I will say that I do know director McGraw personally and I trust him“
You may trust this “Director McGraw” but I think we are more interested in what DPS Director Steven McCraw has to say.
That way I can, as a professional propagandist, attempt to spin, twist, and distort what he says and what happened for political gain.
This is all we leftist really care about, political advancement.
And if it was your religion you would too.
Agreed.
If information gathered and released immediately after a shooting event is unreliable, untrustworthy, fluid, confusing, and wrong, just think about the information flow during a shooting event.
Word
They’d be quick to arrest a parent carrying in a gun free zone though. Worthless
This is another example for mental health evaluations at the the school level. I have not read about this young man having problems with his peers at school, but I am sure it will come out.
These shooters want to be known. They have been dismissed all of their lives, even by parents who are too busy to care. Kids know when to bully someone – we used to have outdoor activities, sports, hiking, even rockets for the nerdy kids. Everyone got to try something. Now, these kids stay in their rooms and play video games, watch others do things and they think that is normal. Get out and do something – get a pal to tell stories to and to get in trouble with. These solitary youths are just timebombs waiting to blow up. Not all of them, maybe only .005% of them have the wherewithal to do something like this, but there is always hints that this kid is having problems. Fix them or see more of the same.
Actually, I’ve read from multiple sources that this kid was bullied because he stuttered. But, FFS, he was 18, and graduating, he was about to escape whatever bullying he had endured in school.
He was also bounced from Mother’s house to Grandma’s house, apparently because he wouldn’t listen to parental advice/orders/rules.
But, he fits the profile of ‘maladjusted’. Bullied or not, who in hell shoots their own grandmother in the face over a freaking CELL PHONE?!?!?! Most of us wouldn’t dream of back talking to Grandma. Mama, maybe, but not Grandma!
According to an interview of his grandfather, he wasn’t about to graduate. He had dropped out.
That’s true – my mistake.
Reported that “mom” was an addict POS and the sperm doner was not around (or unknown).
Exactly. And the shooter was the bully. Look who he chose to pick on.
He was bullied, and he also had a history of threatening classmates and being inappropriate and aggressive with females. That’s according to classmates and co-workers at Wendy’s.
He also reportedly engaged of cutting of his own face.
While there is no official records of law enforcement of mental health interactions, he reportedly posted video to instagram of him yelling at his mother in the presence of police.
Yet again, it looks like there was plenty of actionable stuff that no one acted on.
‘Actionable’? I understand that the 2A community would like literally anything else to blame, but what exactly do you believe is ‘actionable’ about anything he said or did? ‘Guns and cartridges are as harmless as partridges, but words alone are to be criminalized so as not to inconvenience me’?
I had someone point out that security measures at schools are violated/voided not by students… but by teachers.
A simple locked door could have prevented this and that’s messed up.
“A simple locked door could have prevented this and that’s messed up.”
One wonders…..
Had the shooter already decided to attack the school in question, or was the school a “target of opportunity”?
How many other doors were propped open?
If other doors were propped open, were they all opened in a short time frame”
If there were other open doors, did the same person open them all?
Did the shooter go directly for the open door, or did the shooter have to search for an opening?
My over arching question is: Why do these events happen only suburban schools, while such shootings in inner city schools seem to never happen? What can be learned from the security of inner city schools?
Half the kids at an inner city school are strapped. An armed society is a polite society.
“Half the kids at an inner city school are strapped.”
That might be an interesting observation to attempt to validate. The methodology could be quite tricky. Wouldn’t it be interesting to find that one crime prevents another?
“Had the shooter already decided to attack the school in question, or was the school a “target of opportunity”?”
About half an hour prior to the attack he indicated through a Facebook message that he was going to attack kids, but didn’t indicate this specific school.
“…he indicated through a Facebook message that he was going to attack kids, but didn’t indicate this specific school.”
Curiouser and curiouser.
(You know the saying about coincidence)
“If there were other open doors, did the same person open them all?“
Obviously a New World order operative, compromising the security so that their designated hitter could enter the school.
They use AI to identify them online through social media.
This shooter made multiple threats online, they knew his intentions.
“Uvalde mass murderer Salvador Ramos …. bragged about a rifle he bought and threatened school shootings, CNN reported.
Three witnesses told CNN that Ramos made threats to women, saying he would rape and murder them. The users reported Ramos’ account on Yubo’s support team but NOTHING HAPPENED.
According to reports, Ramos made two FaceTime calls with a German girl he met on social media, known as CeCe, where he shared his plot to carry out school shootings.”
My question is why the hell a lock on a classroom door wouldn’t be a standard key that fire,ems and the cops would have. Having to track down a specific key is nuts.
Budget and organization across larger areas can be a problem. I would imagine it will get some attention now but organizational inertia is a thing and unfortunately often requires tragedy to correct.
A halligan opens ALL doors.
True, but I did electric gate repair for a minute, and Fire had the key to every gate on a multi family or business and a lock box with a cable on most residential. I was a wildlands guy, so I just thought that was a city fire thing.
Our compartment complex got rid of the locks on the outer building doors a few years ago because keeping up with 40+ doors on the 20+ buildings in the complex and making sure the FD and several PDs had it was too logistically complex.
When you go to a school, look at every door that isn’t a main entrance. There will be a rock or wooden wedge outside each door for the purpose of propping it open or keeping it from closing all the way and auto-locking. A lot of those doors have only a handle on the outside, not even a key lock, and can only be unlocked and opened from the inside – meaning if it closes and locks on you, you now have a long walk to some other door or you have to get someone’s attention to come let you back in. It’s a pain in the ass, and literally every other time that door has ever been propped open, it hasn’t caused even the slightest problem. Until it did.
A day or two after the shooting this week, Chuck Schumer blocked a bill appropriating a DHS program to determine and implement a “best practices” strategy for school security that would have provided for armed SROs at every school all the time, because he didn’t want “more guns in schools”.
The public rarely, if ever, hears about the incidences that are avoided or stopped, by whatever means. It seems to take a mass casualty event to draw any attention in the first place.
It reminds me of a story I heard about a guy who helped design the B-17 bomber. He studied the placement of bullet holes in other planes after their bombing runs – and decided to place more armor in the areas with the least damage, because those were the planes that didn’t come back.
Forget SROs. Just remove prohibitions on carrying in schools so whoever can legally carry can do so in schools as well. You will instantly have an anonymous force of unknown size and unknown location in every school. Potential mass shooters will never know who is armed, or where they are coming from. And it will cost nothing.
Retired from a school district over a decade ago. Teachers will not follow any protocol that causes them any extra steps or time. Every teacher, bar none, believes that they can ignore the rules. Short of flogging I don’t see a fix for the human factor.
Well except for the teachers that survive these events and/or were combat vets/police in a previous career. But yes slinking out the emergency door to smoke on school property in full view of students was common 20+ years ago and I can’t imagine smart phones made anything better.
At this point in this brave new world ‘they’ are making, I think public floggings of public officials are highly underrated. Even just a monthly random selection of one of the Higher Ups would be hugely beneficial. Gonna go drill some more rivets now outta the neutered mags I just bought…
“According to DPS” That is your first mistake. We know there was ONE BP officer who entered with a borrowed shotgun and burned down the killer. The DPS narrative sounds like complete bullshit. If there were 2 officers inside, they stopped the response with non-life threatening injuries? The claim that the site was secure is 100% bullshit. Claimed cops inside suddenly didn’t give updates after calling for help? CYA bullshit. I don’t buy it.
Pathetic. Especially the excuses made by a certain TTAG author. Do better. Another school massacre featuring cop cowardice…but back the blue. Remember 2 years ago? Out of control BlackLootersMurder activity with cops sissying out. And yes I’ve put my life on the line protecting the innocent. Totally unarmed too. Can’t wait for summer😦
What’s pathetic is you not even being man enough to use my name.
Yeah? Certainly JWT. Mr. excuses yesterday. Thanks for your service but this ain’t Fallujah. What’s with jumping in if someone questions you? Afraid of being wrong? It’s called an apology. Meh…
FWW, there’s nothing wrong with me responding. Why are you so hurt when I do? Don’t dish it out if you can’t take it.
Ouldn’t agree more.
I believe you are talking about the absolute hero that is CBP Officer Jacob Albarado. By all accounts, he was at the point and shot the killer, taking a grazing round to the head, but was not alone and acted with an impromptu team. At least that’s what’s consistent with reports so far from the sheriff, DPS, and CBP.
Who the he!! is hurt? I’ll be 68 in a few day’s-been through a lot in life. Supported TTAG for nearly a decade. I enjoy your gun reviews. Stick to that…
JWT is providing information he has come across and telling it like it is to the best of anyone’s knowledge so far. Is he pro cop? Yes, but not to a fault. You however, former water walker, with your repeated denigrating of all things atheist, Canadian, Australian, etc are another story entirely. After 68 years of experience you would think you would know how to curb your tongue. Guess not.
Rider/shooter
I’ve now been called both pro cop and rabidly anti cop on this site.
I’m both. Pro cops that do good, anti cops that don’t.
JWT, if it was a teacher who left that door propped open (and wasn’t one killed, of course), I would like that teacher charged criminally, but sentenced to keep their job and travel around the country lecturing school staff on *why* school security is important, and what it cost that teacher personally. (If still alive, that teacher is psychologically-destroyed right now, even understandably possibly suicidal.)
That, unfortunately about the only way to turn this crap sandwich into something useful, at this point, and could prove quite healing to that teacher, giving them a sense of mission, so to speak…
68 is okay, I’m hoping 69 is a better number. Sounds like it should be , I like tuna tacos.
He is thin skinned, easily triggered, and can’t admit when he is wrong, then deflects like somebody actually gives a shit what he says.
Travis, you clearly care a lot. Ready to apologize yet?
100%
JWT, with respect I find you one of the guys I’m not either rolling my eyes, raising an eyebrow or drawing them both together when I read your comments and your much appreciated articles. My take is you are pro cop in the way that you are pro good things and anti bad things (as you said). I realize some of the pro part might be from close association but you aren’t one to let that blind you to all the rest of their crap, which you also probably see more than others. For me; they are now the guys who will (apparently enthusiastically) soon be on their way, en force, with gear I paid for, to ‘relieve’ me of my firearms in the name of Public Safety™ up here in the queens colonies. So fuck them. And yes, you bet they will all be ‘just following orders’ when that time comes, north AND south, and “those few, those very few” that actually won’t, well they aren’t gonna stop their brothers in blue from going full gestapo, are they? So running into schools towards the sound of gunfire or cowering outside peeing in their flame retardant polyesters, they can all, each n every one, kiss my still relatively Free ass. Twice.
New day, new facts. And with the reaction I saw of Gov. Abbot and some of the senior police officers, I believe there is little else that will change about the response.
There are many police officers that should immediately resign. They are cowards, period.
You might be right, but which ones?
The ones who stopped because they were under fire. Sounds like they retreated instead of seeking cover and returning fire. I know they had graze wounds, but nothing to take them out of the fight.
I may be a little over critical, but when it comes to the defenseless, nothing should stop an attempt to save them short of being taken out of the fight.
The officers who were breaching windows to get children out, they did the right thing. They did not seem to have eyes on the shooter and were doing something to save the children.
I’d like you to stop and think about how you were trained. These initial officers chased him and fired at him.
When they got to the door, they were wounded.
Now they are there, standing in the kill box, facing an obstacle (the locked door) they can’t surmount without standing exactly where they were when they just got shot.
The two choices they had were:
1. Stand there in the kill box and die, for no advantage.
2. Back up and come up with a better plan. That appears to be what they tried to do. This was the tactically sound decision.
If I’m purely guessing, and like everyone else I am, I would bet right there, right in that hand off of information from those officers to whoever came in next, is where things went from very bad to much worse.
I was 11B for the first part of my former career. I believe you had the same training and the same real world involvement with that training. In my era I was a Harmony Church graduate and LTC Leonard B Scott was the commander at jump school. There is my age and time frame of what training was.
I realize police are not trained in the same way. Not as aggressive or tactical.
I am confused where the shots were exchanged. It seems to change everytime it is reported. Was it at the unsecured door, in the hallway or from a classroom? Each presents a different perspective. Each would have a different field of fire from the shooter and different ways to move to cover and keep him engaged.
I doubt we will see a good reconstruction of the event. The PD better tho so they can see exactly what went wrong and apply lessos learned.
I generally disregard emotion when I evaluate things. Here, my emotion is part of my thought process only because there were children involved.
As far as the information handoff, confusion will aways reign among those who are not used to the stress of the moment.
“seeking cover and returning fire“
Exactly, suppressive fire to keep the shooter occupied, while other officers work around to the windows of these rooms and engage the shooter who is distracted by the officers at the door.
Did the police officers not have instruction in these basic fire and maneuver tactics?
For us it was always the tactic of bounding overwatch, never letting up on the opponent while other elements maneuver into another position to bring fire on the opposing force.
FP, according to the most recent timeline of events that director McCraw laid out by watching the vides, the shooter shot the three officers through the locked classroom door as they initially tried to get in. There was no gun fire exchange outside of the school.
JWT. That makes a difference somewhat. Possibility of staying in the hall and making noise to keep him occupied?
FP, the current report that they were talking to him trying to negotiate him to come out but he would not.
From the timeline posted yesterday it looks like all three times the officers approach the door they got fired at, two of the three times they were injured, and on the last one, with a solid, determined team and ballistic shields, they got in.
That clears up some of it. Will have to wait to see when the information coming out is somewhat finalized.
Most people using this “perfectly reasonable to wait, entirely within training” excuse haven’t been in for a decade or more
Because training in the past decade has been to engage and STAY engaged with an active shooter. You do not wait for kids to bleed out while you negotiate. Sucks if a police officer is shot. Really sucks. But in this particular situation, that is what you risk.
If you can’t get through a door, and you have to wait until you get a ram, okay. But they did not just wait for equipment, they KEPT waiting until apparently border patrol decided to countermand the ‘incident commander’ orders.
Hell, are there windows? Bet there are. This police department had an armored vehicle.
The main issue seems to be that the chief was a idiot. Border patrol agents are not magically bulletproof so it has very little to do with them.
I keep hearing about the delay to enter. Besides thinking it was no longer an active shooter and now “just” a barricaded suspect, they had to find the master key. Cops don’t have breaching rounds for their shotguns?
Also, a teacher blocked a door open minutes before the shooter showed up. Great security!
“Cops don’t have breaching rounds for their shotguns?”
Depends on the door. If it was a center open door, with a metal column, a metal frame, and metal hinges inset, breaching rounds would take a while.
Then again, maybe they were backed up believing the incident commander. Nobody knows yet.
A door like you described would be better approached with a crowbar or halogen tool. Not sure there would be enough breaching rounds to be effective in most departments.
Which after I typed that I realized lots of noise from behind concealment not cover when asshole with rifle is on the other side.
Is this supposed to say Halligan Tool or is there a specific gas tool you’re thinking of?
Well damn autocowrecked yes you are correct.
Fuck, I was hoping you knew of some really cool new gas tool.
Oh, well…
It seems to me going forward that it would be prudent to design classrooms with 2 opposite exits that can’t be covered by one assailant. Sheltering might still be your best option, but you shouldn’t be trapped either. This won’t help as much if the kids are unable to exit the grounds after un assing the classroom though.
A sickening run down on the Cops who refused to save the children in Uvalde, Texas
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/police-slow-to-engage-with-gunman-because-they-could-ve-been-shot-official-says/ar-AAXNyJi?ocid=U143DHP&pc=U143&cvid=5d3680e7afb64644a0443d5b12e1258e
While the chicken shit cops were playing with there middle legs one 9 year old girl called 911 6 times and so did a teacher. To say lives would not have been saved is pure bullshit.
Yea, cops are real brave when they bully drivers at a traffic stop but these cowards ran like rabbits when they had to face another man with a rifle.
In all farness one cop went in alone, was wounded but still killed the gunman. He did prove that all cops are not pigs but cops like him are often few and far between. I have known a few good cops in my life but not many and that is the fking truth.
Of course my post will never be printed but I had to get this off my chest. The parents are now going into a rage as well and should be enraged at the chicken shit cops. Everyone in town should start to spit on them whenever they see them but if they did the brave cops would gun them down that is for sure.
The same cops you want to disarm us, herr dacian.
So says dacian, the 74 year old who “likes toying with people’s minds”
Dacian, you are a moron. Shut up and listen. Maybe you will understand how the worldview you have only leads to more of this.
Paratrooper, you say that as if he actually believes in the crap he spews. I think you prob know he doesn’t, it’s just noise, like a bored, pampered infant will make when they dimly suspect maybe they aren’t actually the center of the universe.
I have a number of questions and some are impacted by events like the January 6 setup to entrap citizens of the wrong political persuasion. In the last two years I have begun to realize some conspiracy theories aren’t!
Here are a couple of questions:
It appears to me that a lot of school shooting perpetrators are known by local, state, and or federal authorities to be dangerous, but nothing is done to stop them.
Why is the weapon almost always an AR-15? It seems to me that a few of these crazys would favor an AK-46, 74, a Ruger Mini-14, or even easier a pump shotgun with buck shot? Coincidence? or is there an attempt to establish a narrative. The Turks make some cheap, reliable, wicked clip and drum fed shotguns.
The libitard left and lame stream media continually tell these marginal monsters what type of weapon to use to get the biggest headlines.
This also AR’s are cheaper and easier to find than ak patterns….. Up here cheaper than the sks options as well. As for shotguns they are cheaper but less (media) attention grabbing amongst other things.
“Why is the weapon almost always an AR-15? It seems to me that a few of these crazys would favor an AK-46, 74, a Ruger Mini-14, or even easier a pump shotgun with buck shot?”
Ruger Mini-14 was used in the San Yusidro (Sp?) McDonalds mass murder, the Texas Luby’s cafeteria mass murder, and the Norway island mass murder.
And probably a number of others…
“Ruger Mini-14 was used in the San Yusidro (Sp?) McDonalds mass murder, the Texas Luby’s cafeteria mass murder“
Incorrect:
“The Glock 17 and Ruger P89 9mm pistols which Hennard used were purchased in February 1991 at Mike’s Gun House, a gun shop in the town of Henderson, Nevada”
The consensus is the perpetrator was motivated by hatred of females, another case of what some call toxic masculinity.
Just like elite, multimillionaire heir to the Swanson frozen food fortune, Tucker Carlson and his fear of low testosterone levels and shrinking balls.
You have *vast*, extensive personal experience living with shrunken nads, ‘minor’… 🙂
“the January 6 setup to entrap citizens of the wrong political persuasion“
Yeah, that’s the ticket!
Geeez coppers, I was set up, it’s a frame job!
Thanks for my morning laugh!
Because normally my morning laugh consists of me looking in the mirror, searching for my “49er”.
Yep Miner is packing a whole 49mm of fury down there!
How did you think I earned my handle “Miner49er”?
Bottom line is, if you’re really serious about protecting your kids you lock the doors, arm teachers and SRO’s! We’ve raised a whole generation of mindless monsters, guns or not, nobody is safe as long as they’re allowed to walk among us!!
What I came away with was, if you really serious about protecting your kids, don’t put them in public schools.
Nothing to argue over on that one.
“What I came away with was, if you really serious about protecting your kids, don’t put them in public schools.”
While accurate, that’s cold consolation Jon, to the working-class families in that town that can’t afford private schools… 🙁
quote—————–jwtaylor May 27, 2022 At 19:14
What I came away with was, if you really serious about protecting your kids, don’t put them in public schools.———quote
It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant the Far Right is. Home schooling does not give children access to the professional teachers that are trained in their profession. It does not let children form relationships with other children of other nationalities and religions (something the far right racists panic over). And sending children to a private school is not affordable to most Americans theses days as many work as many as 3 part time minimum wage jobs with no benefits or holidays off, such is life today in Capitalvania.
And remember being in the cross hairs of an assault rifle is not limited to schools either as children go to concerts, the movies, amusement parks, shopping, the list is endless and the nut case with the bullet proof vest and the deadly assault rifle is there to gun them down in a pool of blood and carnage.
The Far Right will scream Public schools will poison the minds of their children by teaching them about the real world around them and the various nationalities of people that they must learn to live with, understand, and get along with.
Which TOTES explains the constantly-falling test scores, ability to read to grade level, ability to perform basic math, DESPITE increasing school budgets (in “real” dollars), all courtesy of these “professional teachers” of whom you babble. Do a little research on test scores, ability to achieve grade level standards, etc., of private school, home-schooled, and public school students, you ignorant tw**. Oh, I forgot, you’re incapable of actual research. Unless fed talking points by some “respected” Left wing propaganda outlet (Vox, Slate, etc.) you don’t know s***.
In college, we were required to allow “School of Education” students on the debate team, because they needed the extracurricular activity hours. Dumbest SOBs you can imagine. We wouldn’t even allow them on the actual traveling squads; they did “Extemporaneous Speaking” and similar drivel at local tournaments (where they uniformly sucked). I’m betting you’re a product of public schools, dacian the stupid (before you dropped out with no degree). Pulled all four of my children out of your worthless public schools. My oldest two have three degrees between them (and one is working on the fourth) and both my daughters are in college, well on the way to their degrees. NO THANKS WHATEVER to “public” education, which is a complete and utter failure, other than to engage in Leftist indoctrination, and produce gormless, uneducated, Leftist/fascist idiots such as yourself. Go f*** a rubber duck and have bouncing babies, you pathetic @$$clown.
Jerry you represent the public school system well
@jwtaylor
“We do ourselves no favors when we simply jump on the bandwagon that all cops are cowards…”
How do people come up with the idea that police are special forces? Cops are not combat infantry. If there are cops willing to risk their lives in a shooting situation, great. If there are cops who are unsure of their ability to confront an active shooter, it is unreasonable for me to demand they execute a high-risk, low-payoff operation on the spur of the moment.
Special forces and combat infantry are not a gaggle of similarly clad and armed individuals who randomly get together in order to conduct a deadly firefight. SpecFor and combat infantry are trained to work in specific ways, with specific comrades, and specific plans of operations. Police are not military, should not be commanded to act like military.
I do expect that every officer be willing. I cannot expect every one of them to be able. That’s just not reality.
We still have hero cops. Thank god. And we need more of them.
“Off-duty Border Patrol agent borrowed barber’s gun, rushed to Texas school after wife texted ‘help'”
https://www.police1.com/police-heroes/articles/off-duty-border-patrol-agent-borrowed-barbers-gun-rushed-to-texas-school-after-wife-texted-help-cjI75IWJtBjYN8ct/
“I do expect that every officer be willing. I cannot expect every one of them to be able.”
Thinking “willing”, but not “able” is not a promising employment of a random group of police. Would rather the “not able” just get out of the way.
Coming from the aviation perspective, I would not want an airline captain who is “willing”, but “not able”; lives are at stake.
I spent my time in military Aviation. And the difference between an aircraft crew and the cops, is that the aircraft Crew lives are on the line just like their on board passengers.
The cops don’t have to go along for “the ride”.
I mean I’d love for every cop to be trained at that level, and I’d expect them to want to perform at that Tier One level, but I can’t expect that they all would get that training and have that ability.
This mag-dump generation of policing are way better at escalating traffic stops and bullying citizens than when the bullets fly both ways. Mishandling how to deal with an 18 year old plebe with children at stake, pushing parents around. Tough guys, I hope they fire the lot of them, especially “leadership.”
If they are going to carry a firearm I EXPECT them to be mentally and physiclly prepared to use it AND to take a round. If not, join the ambulance crew and do EMS.
“If they are going to carry a firearm I EXPECT them to be mentally and physiclly prepared to use it AND to take a round.”
If that is the deal cops sign up for, then such an expectation should be clearly defined in the employment contract. Expecting LEO to act as combat infantry, without the training, organization, operational experience is unreasonable. Unless every cop is trained as a SWAT team member (and routinely undergo SWAT training exercises), then it is dishonest to hold them to that requirement.
For infantry, just about everything they do is focused on armed conflict; battle. Not so with police.
Except for this Sam, respectfully. Every cop that signs up does so with the sure knowledge that they will be armed, armored and on the street with all their shiny toys and their even shinier badges of authority (how tempting, no?) and thus can be under no illusions that they may one day actually get that call to ‘go in’. It most certainly is part of their job description to go into harms way in the service and protection of their employers, the public (notwithstanding recent and ridiculous courtroom navel gazing decisions of “no duty to protect”). If it isn’t, or if they believe it is not in their scope of duty then they should request to only be issued a can of mace, a radio and a ticket book. We have no need of a gang of state enforcement agents unwilling to perform and carry out their real duties and obligations. A detective can investigate crimes and a parking lot attendant can hand out tickets.
“How do people come up with the idea that police are special forces?”
Let’s see if this sparks a memory, Samuel :
“Only the police and military have the special training to safely handle guns.”
Piously spoken by Leftist Scum ™ that “Know better than plebes like you.”
Now, will they accept that responsibility?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrhCpMagabU
Sam,
False equivalency, IMHO. No cops are not trained to SpecOps standards, nor should they be, nor do they NEED to be. I would agree that cops DEFINITELY need to be trained to higher standards than they are, and would happily see increases in police budgets to accommodate that. But the idea that every cop needs to be trained to that level is absurd. Most civilians are not trained to those standards, either, so it ain’t like you’d be sending cops in against Spetznaz, for Christ’s sake. To expect cops to perform a job that EVERY cop is aware they MAY face in their job is nothing more than asking them to do what they pledged to do (and what they constantly trumpet when asking for raises), “put their life on the line”. And it ain’t like they can’t obtain THEIR OWN training, on their own time and at their own expense. Those of us who are serious about our shooting manage to (and ammunition to maintain proficiency is damned expensive, as you know).
False equivalency is the point.
Agree, cops are supposed to be ready to go in the line of fire, but reality is few, very few actually do. No one expects combat infantry to pay for their own off-duty training, we shouldn’t expect/demand cops pay for individual training…”the system” is responsible for having properly trained police.
Combat infantry trains in small unit tactics; commissioned police do not (SWAT excepted). Combat infantry operate in teams; police do not. Private individuals do not train in small unit tactics, and rarely form a team almost completely focused on “active shooter” situations.
Wanting cops to suddenly become, as a routine, combat infantry is simply unjustified. When they do, great. When they don’t, as always, we are on our own. Wanna see the performance we can expect from a militia formed by “we the people”? Police are a good example of the effectiveness we can expect; people going through their daily routine, active combat as an insignificant possibility. Then, suddenly…
Yes, expecting individual police to respond as heavily trained combat infantry is an unreasonable expectation/demand. That they should is the false equivalency.
OK, let’s go with “false equivalency”.
1. “very few actually do”. No shit. But they (supposedly) all “recognize” that their job may require it, and they sure as hell use that as a talking point when asking for raises – “we put our lives on the line every day”. They took the oath, they take the money, they should do the job.
2. “we shouldn’t expect/demand cops pay for individual training”. In general, I agree . . . but all of us do. Over the last couple of years, I cringe at the cost of a decent range day – but it’s more important to be trained.
3. “‘the system’ is responsible for having properly trained police” I agree – so tell the police unions and your local cops to stop ACTIVELY opposing every effort made to increase training and qualification standards? It isn’t llke the cops are begging for longer, better training and higher qualification standards, Sam.
4. “Wanting cops to suddenly become, as a routine, combat infantry is simply unjustified.” As I said before, that is an absurd “point”. NO ONE is asking them to be trained to military standards (even though our Armed Forces seem to manage to do it in 90 days), but WE’RE NOT ASKING them to fight other trained professionals. In this instance, they were confronting ONE teenager, who couldn’t have been extensively trained. So the argument that we “can’t ask them” to confront a situation that is literally part of their job is BS. Cops have taken down mass shooters many times. Uvalde and Parkland showed us what happens when they don’t.
5. If your standard is that they have to be trained “like combat soldiers”, good luck with that. That means the only alternative is to station units of the 101st or the 82nd strategically to cover all the schools . . . which, frankly, is stupid. It’s their damn job. Other cops have done it successfully. This false standard that we can’t ask cops to do a cop’s job because they’re not “combat soldiers” is sheer nonsense.
I would not have expected this POV from you.
I wish I had some answers but I don’t. It seems that the protocol called for waiting if active shooter stopped and get negotiations going somehow if shooter is barricaded in. Police going in full on could get more deaths of hostages. I can see that as being the thing to do at one time but the active shooters have changed. They are not interested in anything but the highest kill count and internet fame. They know their life is basically over and take their own life for the most part or are killed by the police.
Only one way to stop someone like that and I don’t think it’s the right way all of the time.
It’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
Society in general is politicized to the point of being entirely unaccepting of something Picard told Data when Data was trying to become more human.
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness, that is life”.
Always gotta blame someone for anything less than perfection. That is the way of politics.
What Are the odds that we will find out the shooter’s list of pharmaceuticals?
What does that mean? Do you really believe prozac or the Covid vaccine makes people mass murderers? LOL!
What kind of a mother named her child ‘easy’?
Have the balls to identify yourself, 🤡 …
If gunfire is still being heard inside the building. Then the active shooter has not been stopped. I don’t understand how police officers who are ordered to stand down and told the incident is now over. But still have gunfire being heard and stand there and do nothing???
Its the guns stupid. Below a partial list of mass murder with the AR 15
Uvalde: AR-15
Buffalo: AR-15
Boulder: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Aurora, CO: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Poway Synagogue: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15
@dacian
“Its the guns stupid.”
sooo dacian, those guns just jumped up and went out and committed their crime all by their selves?
So using that logic, in this incident, the shooter …
“… used a debit card to purchase two rifles…”
So… Its the debit cards stupid.
The common thing, and only live deciding variable, in 100% of school shootings or any shooting or gun-crime is the individual holding the gun and making the decisions to pull the trigger.
If a person goes on a killing rampage without a gun does that mean no killing happened?
Its not the guns stupid, its the person.
@Chris T in KY
“…aircraft Crew lives are on the line just like their on board passengers.”
Agreed. Big difference is that due to training, there are a minuscule number of military pilots who are “willing, but unable”, compared to the likely breakdown among police. In either situation, I prefer the “willing, but unable” not be on scene.
Any damn moron knows seconds count in a mass shooting and Taylor’s lame attempt to defend the despicable behavior of the cops in this mass murder is sickening to the extreme
ONE POLICEMAN EVEN SAID “THERE IS NO DAMN EXUSE FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR AND COMPLETE FAILURE TO SAVE LIVES TO SAVE THEIR OWN SKINS”.
What an absolute clusterfuck this is from so many angles.
And, unfortunately, I doubt there’s any good to come from this on the other side. Even if there are some quality lessons, unfortunately written in blood, they’ll be lost in the political machinations that are already spooled up on both sides.
It’s interesting though, how things line up. If you’d told me a school shooting would align a bunch of grassroots conservatives with ACAB while at the same time boosting gun control from the GOP in the Senate I doubt I’d have believed it.
And in the end, it may all come down to someone propping open a door for enhanced ventilation.
strych9,
“And in the end, it may all come down to someone propping open a door for enhanced ventilation.”
A teacher allegedly propping a door open about 60 seconds before the spree-killer crashed his truck (and thus a few minutes before the spree-killer entered the school) is the absolute mother of all coincidences.
Was that attack a false-flag event? Who knows. What we do know with absolute certainty is that schools and police have a proven track-record of failing to secure/rescue the intended victims of spree-killers. And that should come as no surprise since government (including quasi-government entities such as schools) are notorious for being incompetent. We would be wise to openly acknowledge those facts and act accordingly.
In my experience little things like this, often done commonly, end up biting you on the ass. You get away with them for a long time and think nothing of them until something goes wrong.
I would say that it’s not a terrible bet that the teacher propped open the door, ignorant of the shooting outside (I’ve seen an ungodly number of people confuse fireworks and gunshots in both directions) and propped the door open basically in front of the shooter. Shooter thinks “Ah, what luck!” and happily takes advantage.
At this point I’d rate that as more likely someone actively letting the guy into the building.
“And, unfortunately, I doubt there’s any good to come from this on the other side.”
The teacher who propped that door open (if not one of the 2 teachers killed) is right now an emotional basket case of guilt (I would *hope*).
How about channeling some of that guilt by charging, convicting, and sentencing that teacher to travel the nation lecturing school personnel on basic school security?
At the least, it might give that teacher a bit of a sense of worth…
Dear God – we’re not even trying anymore.
Three presidents Carter, Clinton, and Obama, have had their school-age children set to a School building that was itself turned into an armed Fortress.
Donald Trump’s young son Barron was threatened with rape. By Liberals and Leftists who think it’s funny to say a 10 year old boy should be raped. So it was just a joke right?
So Donald Trump’s kids got Secret Service protection too. And for good reason since many on the Left were calling for his children to be attacked.
All of America’s children deserve the same kind of armed guard defense that the president’s children get. And it can come from retired police and retired military. Or it can come from armed staff inside the school. But all of these armed guards need to be circulating inside of the school building. And outside as well.
You cannot rely on outside law enforcement. And it doesn’t matter how good their intentions are. They simply will not be there when you need them NOW.
^my brother from another mother^
I remember a phrase we used to tell ourselves years ago: “An imperfect plan instituted immediately has a better chance of success than a perfect plan initiated after the incident”. What happened here is the fear of not following the book, instead of taking action. A common factor in new law enforcement. I did almost 30 years in L.E. During that time, I was in an inter-agency S.W.A.T. team for 5 years. I never saw any supervisor, Chief, or assistant Chief, and-or anyone from the command staff participate in any training. Tragic.
Thanks for the briefing JWT. Lots more coming, no doubt.
Let’s all take a breath. Everyone is under tremendous pressure to provide answers. But it takes time to sift through the mess and separate the facts from speculation. Factual information is tough to gather from any witness having gone through fight or flight, and the negative chemicals produced will take a long time to settle. Tons of information to process. Give it time.
I guarantee you, with the multiple jurisdictions that were on scene, the many after action reports and individual responder supplementary reports, sigh, it’s a cluster.
Each responder has unique angles, perspectives and thought processes that have to be documented frame by frame and augmented along the way, including all those who made tough decisions including OICs up and down the communication ladder.
Anyone can be an armchair quarterback after the fact, but let’s not fuel the pinhead politicians that are going to spin this with misinformation anyway. Let’s not fuel the bonehead mobs. Critical incidents are never clean. When the dust settles there’s always going to be blame.
In the meantime, let’s figure it out so that wisdom is gained.
This is where cooler heads need to prevail and those leading a multi agency investigation need to be laser focused. Let’s not get distracted with knee jerk crap of what or who shoulda, woulda, coulda.
For the TTAG community, with the exception of the trolls, hug your loved ones. Be prepped. Be strapped whenever possible.
Have options and practice your emergency drills. Visualize the shizzy hitting the fizzy anywhere anytime and have a plan. Stay sharp but there’s always room to learn.
Let’s be self sufficient so we can hold our own until friendlies arrive. If we need sheepdogs in the chicken coop so that the foxes don’t feed on our chick’s and decrease the reactionary gap or response times, then do it.
I know of many private schools (elementary,
not just high schools or colleges) and congregations that already do. Our little ones are most vulnerable. If there’s a will, there’s a way. Git er done!
Wisdom
Even if the perpetrator ceases shooting, there are likely to be wounded that will survive if given medical treatment. Negotiating with such an active shooter simply enables more of his victims to die from bleeding to death.
That police chief needs to be publicly flogged then lynched or better yet, subjected to a good old fashioned public stoning so that all of the parents and relatives of the murdered children can participate.
He’s not a police chief. He’s a clown on the city council and had no business running this operation.
@djskwmeej
“Secret government agents tricking people into shooting kids? I assume you also believe in Pizzagate and the Illuminati.”
Reading is fundamental, mate. Comprehension is crucial. You need to slow down, and really read these posts/comments.
The original comment asserted that to be a “false flag” operation, a “flag” must be declared first. I simply explained how the Uvalde shooting could fit the description of “false flag”. Explanations, in the real world, are not synonymous with endorsement.
Had to look up “Pizzagate”. However, there is precious little I wouldn’t believe about the Clinton Crime Family, and their associates.
It was good to get your perspective here. It differs a little from mine and a lot from some of the readers, apparently, but it’s important that we take stock of different points of view and maximize our knowledge of these threats. Some of the readers may not appreciate this post, but I did.
He didn’t give you nearly the same courtesy, ragging on your piece left and right. In retrospect, you were way more on point that day than Taylor was.
“He was convinced at the time that there was no more threat to the children”
What about the ones that might be alive and are now bleeding? It is unbelievable he did not think it was urgent to retrieve the wounded.
This is what I can’t square at all. It makes no sense.
What information made the on-scene commander believe and communicate that “there was no more threat to the children”? Did he really not know there were still children in the room?
At that point, he had backup. He wouldn’t have been the person to actually be in the stack, so simple cowardice doesn’t explain it.
Where was the breakdown that led him to tell everyone they had time and to start negotiating with the shooter?
I’m wondering the exact same thing. It’s possible that the confusion may have been that the suspect was no longer mobile and pinned down to classroom giving the presumption that he’s barricaded. Nonetheless, it needs to be presumed that innocents are still present in the room whether injured, but still alive. As he continues to shoot, it should be presumed, based on the current assessment that more kids are dying by the second. But there’s still the problem of the physical obstacles before good hits on target. Even if they could breach earlier without janitorial assistance, could you imagine having to engage the punk in the hard corner with a human shield of little kids. It’s a tough one any way you look at it. Even Bin Laded didn’t shield himself with no-shoots. Bur thanks for the sitrep.
*Laden
“This is what I can’t square at all. It makes no sense.”
Maybe…Fear?
You can’t ‘square’ it because you are thinking through your lens. What you might have done.
“Everyone has a plan until they are punched in the face.”
And you only know when you are tested.
Generally, I’d start by looking at bureaucratic inertia.
During the shooting in Boulder last year the cops took forever to do certain basic things because their jurisdiction required a stupid amount of “sign offs”, and therefore time, to be able to use equipment in “non standard” ways because it might produce safety issues.
Wanna put cops on the roof of a one story structure using a firetruck’s ladder? “Oooo… yeah, we’re gonna need to do some paperwork and call three supervisors who aren’t on scene from three different groups in order to OK that…” was the answer.
They eventually got it done but it took over an hour for them to get the right boxes checked to use that fire truck in a way that any idiot could instantly see would work. Everyone involved seemed, to me, to be more concerned with getting approvals than they were with acting quickly.
Thanks, JWT. I’m so infuriated by this event, it’s difficult to read accounts. At the same time, I want level-headed writing about this and it’s so difficult to find. Will keep checking back to see if you write more.
“…but I can’t expect that they all would get that training and have that ability.”
Zackly. Thus, it is unreasonable to expect cops to rise to the level of trained infantry during a shooting episode. If combat infantry capability is required, cops should be under no illusions when they sign their employment contract.
@Rider/Shooter
“Every cop that signs up does so with the sure knowledge that they will be armed, armored and on the street with all their shiny toys and their even shinier badges of authority (how tempting, no?) and thus can be under no illusions that they may one day actually get that call to ‘go in’. ”
Infantry face the facts every day, cops not so much. Human nature is to discount the rare, allow shoot-outs to be nothing more than theoretical (because of the rarity). Humans are humans, if the risks are not bold print, and emphasized over and over, “normal” becomes the norm. Cops are, after all, civilians.
The best to hope for is the “not willing, not able” will not get in the way of the “willing and able”.
Then why are they so quick to argue, EVERY time they ask for a raise, that they “put their lives on the line, every day”?? Sam, as I stated above, they are not trained to the level of “combat soldiers”, and they are also not being asked to FACE “combat soldiers”. That’s just absurd. I would love to see cops trained to higher standards, and I think that should be done. To argue that they can’t face a lone kid with an AR-15 because they’re not “trained to that level” implies that, to deal with school shooters, we need to station groups of SpecOps operators near every school, so we’ll have “trained” forces to deal with it. Not only fiscally impractical, that would be a terrible wast of resources. How about we agree to give the cops more training (and for your info, most police unions and local departments actively RESIST higher training and qualification standards), and they agree to do their damn jobs???
“Then why are they so quick to argue, EVERY time they ask for a raise, that they “put their lives on the line, every day”?? ”
– Because that’s simply how politics and budget negotiations are done.
Do you really expect a random collection of police, trained to the standards they are, to operate the same as disciplined combat soldiers? What is the gain by having dead police, due to the fact that they lacked proper training in hostage release/active shooter methods and practices. The point is, if we expect police to all be heroic, then they need a system that puts them in the best condition to successfully (whatever that means) prevail. Why is this not the norm? Because we the people are not willing to pay for that level of police capability.
And the other half of we the people want police disbanded entirely.
Sam, at this point in the circus act I’m gonna go with “disband entirely” for $200, Alex. They aren’t saving anybody any sooner or any better than anyone else is doing (or at least are able to do) when imminence is imminent… when we are allowed to do so by our betters, that is. Get these tatted up, shaved head, power tripping weekend warriors out of the damn way. Relegate them to highway patrol, criminal investigations and celebrity protection details where they can really shine and let people take care of their own immediate issues. The attrition rate of bad actors in play would be immediately telling and most of these worthies wouldn’t dare walk the streets after the first year. If ‘school shootings’ are gonna be a thing, alphabet agency asset implemented or otherwise (think how truly bizarre a thing it is for any individual to just pick a school and go in and start shooting children… multiple times over in any given election year yet), then teachers who can should damn well be returning fire, not running into classrooms with a cell phone in their hand to hide screaming children in closets. Let us fucking kill these pricks as fast as is humanly possible, icky as that might be to the more socially enlightened amongst us. We are becoming a nation(s) of gender confused cowards with armed keystone cop/gestapo wannabes running herd on us at their executive directors bidding. And I think it’s intentional.
No, Sam, my ENTIRE POINT is that we DON’T require or expect them to react as “trained combat soldiers” FFS! They are being asked to do a COP’S job, not a SEAL’s. 20+ cops, with EQUIVALENT firearms, being asked to take down ONE teenage, untrained kid is NOT asking them to act as “combat soldiers”.
GTF over it, Sam. We are asking, and expecting, that cops (who CONSTANTLY beat up us taxpayers for more money, overtime, benefits, pensions, etc., etc, et ad nauseum cetera) will actually DO the damn jobs they pledge to do (and other cops, other than the Parkland and Uvalde p***ies) MANAGE to do. That you are defending their cowardice and inaction, on such specious grounds, does not speak well of you.
If I’m in a car crash, and pinned in the wreckage, it’s TOTES OK for the fire/rescue responders to say, “Gee, the car might catch fire, and we’re not trained for that”????? AYFKMRN????????
Sam, your POV is simply ridiculous. Please stop, before you hurt yourself.
Bingo
Lamp, yeah.
Sam, agreed. Doesn’t negate the inarguable fact though that they signed up for exactly this thing. They had to have or it would be like a Wal-Mart door greeter in their safety vest and smiley face button getting pissed at all the people walking by them into the store.
“Doesn’t negate the inarguable fact though that they signed up for exactly this thing.”
Agree; cops sign their employment agreements. What I am talking about is human nature. Statistically (yuk, yuk,), cops ever discharging their weapon is statistically insignificant. Like many things humans agree to, the statistically insignificant is not a “real” consideration.
Cops are perhaps trained in procedures, but annual firearms qualification is not preparing anyone for actually facing gunfire. If we the voters/taxpayers don’t demand tactical competence of our police departments (we don’t), we should not expect/demand extraordinary response.
Or do we just have to face up to expecting champagne on a beer budget?
Sam, yeah, I know what you are talking about (human nature) but each and everyone of them, all different flavors of beer working toward that champagne bottle retirement package, knew full well what job they were applying for, which was at least one of the initial points; I’ve lost track now. Again. Still.
@Geoff “I’m getting too old for this shit” PR
“JWT, if it was a teacher who left that door propped open (and wasn’t one killed, of course), I would like that teacher charged criminally…”
Might prove neigh impossible to identify who left that door open.
@Geoff “I’m getting too old for this shit” PR
“How do people come up with the idea that police are special forces?”
Let’s see if this sparks a memory, Samuel :
“Only the police and military have the special training to safely handle guns.”
What, that’s not true? You jivin’ me, man? C’mon, man, it’s plain common sense. Anyone who doesn’t know/believe it is a lying dog face pony soldier.
A woman in an apartment directly behind me was raped 5 days ago 24:30ish, I heard nothing, I was probably asleep?
I feel pretty bad about not being awake because usually I am at that time.
Now I’m regretting seeing her because if I’d had just heard a yell or something I coulda stopped it.
Glad I’m not the teacher that propped the door open.
It can indeed be a shitty world, bro.
Singing a different tune I see.
No, singing the exact same tune. Still frustrated with people like you that jumped to conclusions without any of the facts.
Lots of cops did exactly what they were supposed to do given the information they had and the situation they were in. Lots of cops in this situation did a great job.
At least one teacher and at least one cop clearly made huge errors.
You owe me an apology.
Funny. STILL Fflapping them jaws. What I said turned out to be 100% accurate: this was handled poorly by the law and took too damn long. Truth. That’s all I asserted as opinion, and it was obvious to anybody not running cover.
However, much of what you asserted as fact turned out to be false, like “engaged immediately.” Spin it however you want, you are the one that had it wrong, but I don’t expect you to aplogize or admit it, and don’t care at all about you. In This case, I’m sad to be right, but Uvalde is pissed and were poorly served.
Maybe don’t jump in there so quickly next time telling readers to shut up until you have your facts straight.
Funny. STILL Fflapping them jaws. What I said turned out to be 100% accurate: this was handled poorly by the law and took too damn long. Truth. That’s all I asserted as opinion, and it was obvious to anybody not running cover.
However, much of what you asserted as fact turned out to be false, like “engaged immediately.” Spin it however you want, you are the one that had it wrong, but I don’t expect you to aplogize or admit it, and don’t care at all about you. In This case, I’m sad to be right, but Uvalde is pissed and were poorly served.
Maybe don’t jump in there so quickly next time telling readers to shut up until you have your facts straight.
Travis, by all accounts and after a review of the video inside and outside the school, several officers chased the subject and were wounded trying to get to him.
Then that or another group of officers were fired upon again trying to get through the door.
Then either that or another group of officers were fired upon with at least one wounded when they finally got through the door.
Those are the facts.
You ran your mouth before the facts were out and got caught. No big deal.
Grow up and apologize.
Interesting that some folks always say, “I’d a done this or that” in a critical incident or gun battle.
Hind sight is 20-20. Bold statements like that, without real intel, are usually an indication of myopic folks that talk a good game but usually don’t have real world down-range experience.
Anyone who’s soldiered (11Bs and the like) and hard humped it with a badge, know the similarities as well as the differences.
Whether it be ROE or tactical protocols. There are and will be times where a threatening scenario in both war and policework are similar, but responses cannot cross over.
It is extremely frustrating because most of us know what we want to do, can conflicts with what we can do.
Many military units are doing peace keeping missions and get involved with local community problems and threats. Remember Mogadishu? So obviously ROE change based on the mission objectives. And what about international terrorism? Our troops are being used quite often as “world police” but are required to change hats immediately as the situation morphs.
On the flip side, we battle domestic terrorism with civilian LE, Active-Killers, Barricaded Suspects and a boat load of other violent crimes in progress, with a scrutiny level that has NO acceptable casualty rate. Tough isn’t it? It’s constantly fluid and tensions and stakes are high.
Keeping the enemy pinned down with grazing fire may work in a military gun battle. But it is NOT an acceptable tactic in a school where kids are presumed to be everywhere, and possibly you’re own kid. It’s still very possible that one or more of the rounds fired may have injured or killed one of those kids. That would f’n suck.
The problem is, whether you’re wearing green or blue, or in some cases both, a shit sandwich is always a shit sandwich.
Even the armed citizen has its challenges being solo without coordinated team support. Or worse, just being misidentified and killed by the cops anyway. Or military friendly fire. Shit burger, man.
The best response at this juncture is to wait for the facts and then give it your best educated answer. Until then, a better answer aught to be a humble “It depends…” and then critique it with real foundation.
“We don’t know why yet, and there’s no reason to assume any collusion, but the teacher tragically propped a door open roughly one minute before the shooter crashed his truck and began the attack.”
This is one of the most common security flaws for buildings. People do this stupid shit all the time because, well, it’s easy. Gotta run to your car to get your phone? Don’t want to have to badge to get back in? Just stick a prop in there. You’ve done it a thousand times and nothing bad happened. Until today.
At this point doors should have a silent “open” alarm with a video camera pointed at them. Anyone who props one gets suspended the first time, fired the second.
@AC
“The father…” blamed his son’s reportedly drug-addicted mother Adriana Reyes for not buying him more clothes. He said that he was often bullied at school for wearing the same pants every day.” ”
Not seeing the relevance to explaining how the event could fit the description of a “false flag” operation. An explanation is not a validation, or endorsement.
@Lamp
Cops, civilians that they are, do not have the “warrior mindset”. Indeed, that mindset must be trained into combat soldiers; trained, and reinforced. Cops are individuals, not team members of a cohesive unit.
We do not accept an infantry platoon that is instantaneously and randomly selected as individuals, to perform an unplanned, unbriefed, uncoordinated, leaderless attack on a barricade. Why do we expect that of non-combat trained police?
I don’t live in a world of wooda, cooda, shooda. Reality is what it is: police are uniformly unprepared to situations such as Uvalde. The fault lies with the public. Police may not need to be trained to SpecFor levels, but demanding an unprepared (and budget constrained) police force to operate uniformly, and as effectively as the average SWAT unit is simply unrealistic, unless the taxpayers are willing to fund the training that can allow police to perform to SWAT levels. Meanwhile, complaining about reluctance to “run to the guns” is pointless (doesn’t improve the police force).
Not sure why you are puzzled at my thoughts on this. I don’t trust police, but I am not anti-police. I expect police to enforce the law, but I would never trust police to efficiently deal with an active shooter (for a lot of reasons). If they do, great. If they don’t, I am not disappointed. (Yes, I may be arguing for de-militarizing the police, while simultaneously pushing for a more effective police).
@Rider/Shooter
I can understand you thinking. Not sure zero police is actually a better condition than a competently trained and led police force. But, if an individual is totally responsible for their own safety, and only has those rights they can individually and successfully defend, law of the jungle may have some attraction.
An armed society is a polite society, but Heinlein presupposed a society where everyone was armed, and everyone else knew it.
Sam, well, like I said: highways, crime scenes and celebrities. Otherwise they can both leave us the hell alone and get the hell out of the way. Good people, people that have determination, integrity and skin in the game don’t need them. Good people can deal with the bad people as we need to and as we always have for hundreds of thousands of years. We are becoming too soft, calling on the nanny to save us every day. Letting the nanny go, so to speak, will be of evolutionary benefit to mankind, or rather “personkind” as the idiot manchild in Ottawa is trying to force us to say. Because he panders for, oops, I mean stands for free speech. And he has spent hundreds of millions of dollars of our money buying our media to implement his flavor of it to prove it. But I digress…
“We are becoming too soft, calling on the nanny to save us every day.”
Such is the last stage of empire.
Ha! Salient (sapient?) observation.
Sam,
OK, then, IF I agree with that (which I don’t), can they AT LEAST not taze, handcuff and impede parents who ARE willing to go in and face the “dangerous” teenage, untrained punk who is murdering their kids?????
Sorry, but your POV on this issue is nigh on to dacianesque. No, they are NOT “trained to combat soldier” standards – nor are they being asked to do a combat soldier’s job. They are being asked to do a job that (i) they applied for, KNOWING what the job involved, (ii) demand huge benefits and compensation for (and constantly prattle that they are “putting their lives on the line every day”), (iii) OTHER cops, with similar training, have managed to do it successfully, and (iv) they are also not FACING “trained” opposition. The position you’re espousing amounts to carrying water for corrupt police unions, trying to cover up for the blatant failures of their members. As my dear daddy used to say, “They look like a cat trying to cover s*** on a linoleum floor.” Either they do their damn jobs, of they STFU, take the pay and benefits they are offered for their half-assed efforts, or they step up and do it right.
OK, then, IF I agree with that (which I don’t), can they AT LEAST not taze, handcuff and impede parents who ARE willing to go in and face the “dangerous” teenage, untrained punk who is murdering their kids?????
Yes, a random mob of amped-up armed people will certainly produce an outcome far superior to any delayed response by police. That mob will be focused on their own children, not others. Those people will do anything to save their children, including suppressive fire that hits everyone but their child/children.
Simple, harsh, sad, tragic, heart-breaking fact is the police deliver what is expected of them. We the people set the expectations by electing people who create safety systems that are failing. We the people are at fault for not having better policing, all along the line. Yes, we the people who could not sell the majority on aspects of police and safety we want to see in place. We get the full government we deserve. You can delegate authority, but responsibility remains with us.
Rider/Lamp, you know I don’t do echo chamber. Why expect this instance would be any different? And if you count yourselves among those who declare that any opposition to group think is the mark of a troll, what does that say about whom? An iconoclast is not one to expect to conform to the “conventional wisdom”.
@Rider/Shooter
“… knew full well what job they were applying for, which was at least one of the initial points…”
Are not being informed, and fully understanding information a bit different? Do police sign on the dotted line a contract/application requiring them to sacrifice their lives? Yes, they do. Do they all fully understand the meaning of their promise? Apparently not; they are human. I can’t get beyond the public demand that police simply throw themselves into the path of bullets, without the training and molding of mindset that will give them the best probability of being successful. Just running into bullets, with no skill, no prep, no leadership, no plan, ending up dead is neither honorable or reasonable. It’s easy to blame the individuals, but we recoil at the prospect that we the people, who are part of “the system” of policing, are obligated to provide the skills, training and leadership necessary to meet our demands.
Target the reluctant individual, but Pogo was right (and we hope nobody notices).
Sam, no one is asking them to blindly and futilely run into a wall of incoming, just as no one can possibly be so mind numbingly stoopid as to sign up for the police academy without the understanding that they might just get shot at one day, wether as an unavoidable, real world requirement or by being ordered to now take that risk to perform their job. Okay, maybe some are that dumb but we can’t establish a baseline from the lowest denominator, only a bottom line, as in very bottom. All our talk of training, mindset, etc is just so much more navel gazing when bullets start flying around: if you are armed and in a (proper) position to act, you do so. I feel you are obliged to. If you are armed and not only in a position to act but, as a cop, volunteered for the oppurtunity/duty to do so (which you most certainly did… in exchange for just renumeration of course), then you damn well better act. Not only do I feel you will be obliged to, I will damn well sue your ass for breach of contract if’n y’all don’t act. Training be damned, that can be had and yes, should be pursued more than it is. Or this: get the hell out of our way and stop protecting/serving/covering for those who would literally disarm us. I’m ready to start affecting this type of change right now, Sam. Even with prejudice if need be. Totally done with their lies, theft and nonsense. Life ain’t that sweet and less sweeter still on our knees, head bowed, emptying out our pockets and being charged taxes for the privilege to do so. How they must fucking laugh. But I begin to digress again… still…
Rider/Shooter
As mentioned, the real world isn’t what we would want, like or even demand. Gotta accommodate reality until it can be changed. That said, I don’t expect cops to “run to the guns”, and won’t be aggravated that they don’t. A mass gaggle of armed police, with no real direction, doesn’t inspire confidence in the outcome.
Sam, true enough on all counts and I don’t expect anything from them either but only because I trust them to only “just follow orders” and to not actually do the real job they signed up for (at least in our eyes, but wth do we know?) when called upon; a job we pay them to do and outfit them to be able to do it. And I gotta say: any cop that fails to run to the guns where children are concerned should immediately resign on that very spot in shame and dishonor and be Amishly shunned by their community for eternity. I don’t expect or even want them to be there for you or I, but someone slaughtering children with near a 100 cops outside milling around in a donut dazed/glazed clusterfuck? I think I might very well open fire on them if I saw that. Was there catering on hand?
I’m missing the Pogo reference; I feel I should know but it isn’t coming to me.
Rider/Shooter
“Ha! Salient (sapient?) observation.”
Sentient?
“E”; all of the above.
“I’m missing the Pogo reference;…”
The newspaper cartoon philosopher Pogo, remarking, “We have met the enemy, and he is us.
A riff on Ceaser’s three word message to Rome regarding an encounter with an enemy army, “Veni, Vidi, Vici”. Sometimes translated, “I have met the enemy, and he is mine”. Also sometimes translated as, “I came, I saw, I conquered”.
Ah, I’m familiar with the saying but I’m proud to say that I have never once opened the pages of a single newspaper. I somehow recognized them for what they were even as a kid. You could say I have a long and negative history with both figures and ‘sources’ of self proclaimed authority. That half of society (so non sentient sapiens?) had a hand in putting these career grifters in those positions frosts my ass daily. Baaa. Baaa. Mooo. Mooo. 😉
And how’s the gee-tar playing coming? Or are the morning martinis getting in the way? I’m half way through a bottle of Dalwhinnie 10yr old myself… cheers.
Rider/Shooter
“Ah, I’m familiar with the saying but I’m proud to say that I have never once opened the pages of a single newspaper.”
Pogo ran from 1948 to 1975. It contained wry observations on people. Mostly, I remember it from the mid ’50s. Most times I didn’t understand the references, but in later years found it rather evenhanded.
Well I can imagine that if there is real truth to be found in the offerings of media consortiums then it might best be looked for in the funnies. This may be more true today then it was in those days, but probably not by much. The fifties was before my sentient sapien days, I didn’t much become salient until the sixties, if I’m even that now.
“Well I can imagine that if there is real truth to be found in the offerings of media consortiums then it might best be looked for in the funnies.”
Like really good contemporary music, the good cartoons pretty much ended in 1975.
Can’t seem to post a reply here. Tried twice, finally posted a (mercifully) shorter one just below. Later, Sam.
@Rider/Shooter
“And how’s the gee-tar playing coming?”
Pretty well. Moved the instrument from the basement to the living room last month.
HaHa! I understand perfectly buddy. Hey, you’re doing better than me; I had one given to me decades ago and I’ve yet to ever pluck a string. It’s in here somewhere but damned if I could say where.
Sam, twice now my last post agreeing with the current music situation and me explaining how I’m now outta Scotch and gotta crash has disappeared into The Void. Talk again soon I hope. Be well. Greg.
“Be well. Greg.”
Thanx. Same.
@Paul Atreides
“I want to know ‘how’ the police obtained the texts messages?”
Well, I can tell you this….
The Feds, the Bilderburgers, Illuminati, Masons, WHO, UN and Birkenstock are always involved in every strange event that happens, and many, many events that are not strange. Against that array, it no longer matters who did what, only that it happens. Money talks, and the rest of ride the bus. Never chalk up to incompetence that which can easily be explained by simple evil.
Talk about disinterest, there actually is an invisible planet located at L5, and no one of importance seems to care a whit.
Let’s cut to the chase her. the very fact that you cannot freely enter a school and a teacher cannot be allowed to prop open a door is a shameful thing. And probably unique to the USA. Once again what is taken as a normal action in the restof the civilised world is usewd to ,justify the NRA [ and alrrewqady BANKRUPT organiastion stance on gun ownership and contol- aqll to satisfyn the whiles and whims of wannabe Rambos. American kids from an early age must be scared out of their wits most of the time.
Having said that Im do realise that there have been MAS SCHOOL SHOOTINGS inn EUROPE and the UK in the past and will be again no dpoubt butb the point is that such incidences are very very rare indeed and I can only think of two in the UK in my lifetime and I’m now in my mid-eighties . Both of these incidences resulted in a severe tightening up, practically overnight, of GUN CONTROL legislation with the overwhelming support of the electorate and very little opposition indeed. And there lies the difference. Most of the civilised world recognises the connection between the availability of firearms especially SEMI-AUTO Long Guns and hand guns and the incidences of their criminal use. It does NOT require a geni mius to work that out.
There is , by the way NO GENERAL BAN on firearms in the UK and if you can demonstrate just cause you CAN obtain a license for just about anything short of a Sub, light or Heavy Machine Gun However I do not know a single person who has a license for other than a .22 or a shotgun of some description mwithnthe mexception of a relative who has a STALKERS LICENSE for a .226 WINCHESTER and they do not grow on trees . The fact is that a 12 Gauge repeater to my mind is THE weapon of choice [and I was for 15 years an Armourer and Smallarms Instructor in the Royal Air Force and I actually carried a Greener 12 Gauge Riot Gun whilst on Service in the Middle East ] if you mean to do several person harm in a single incident but to my knowledge one has never been used to such purpose in the UK
As a parent in the UK, and I have no reason to think that the UK is anyway other than average for Europe, I had free access to every school my kids went to if I wished to see the Head Teacher or have a question for the School Administration. Most schools at secondary level do have some sceurity and in some an Office space is provided for Police Community Support Officers [PCSO’s] but these are unarmed Police Auxilliaries paid for by the local authority and have no power, other than CITIZENS RIGHTS, of arrest.
@LampOfDiogenes
“Sam, your POV is simply ridiculous.”
Lamp, you really, really do expect that cops who are told at every shift change, “Everyone goes home at the end of shift”, cops who are told by the SC that they have no duty to protect anyone, under any circumstances, are suddenly going to put on the warrior mindset, and charge the guns?
I have nothing to “get over”. So far, cops generally meet my expectations.
Firefighters are a different breed of cat. They are focused on fires, on rescue, on encountering dangerous obstacles on every call-out. They don’t have a job focused primarily on additional duties, like traffic control, speed traps, riots, “community policing, parking tickets, counter-terrorism, surveillance, child protection, VIP protection, delivering warrants, testify in court.
If we want warriors, we need to step up to the cost of providing that. Stop demanding what we know we generally won’t get. Change the system (we the people are the system), or accept reality.
If police protected us the way we demand, we wouldn’t need to be our own first responders, would we?
Bottom line? Even a selection process that would give us warriors as police, would still only provide us a police presence that needs time to respond, assemble, assess, act; and always too late to save everyone.
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