By James England via concealednation.org
Governor Terry McAuliffe has struck a deal with Virginia Republicans. In exchange for calling off his dog, Attorney General Attorney General Mark R. Herring, who unilaterally ended a majority of the state’s concealed carry reciprocity agreements, Republicans will allow a bill to pass the House and Senate which will enable the state to seize weapons from anyone under a two-year protective order for domestic-violence offenses. And staties will attend all gun shows to provide background checks on potential buyers at the sellers’ request . . .
From the Washington Post:
This is a bipartisan deal that will make Virginians safer,” McAuliffe spokesman Brian Coy said. “It also demonstrates that Democrats and Republicans can work together on key issues like keeping guns out of dangerous hands.”
“Bipartisanship requires give-and-take by both sides,” said Matt Moran, a spokesman for House Speaker William J. Howell (R-Stafford). “This agreement restores reciprocity for law-abiding Virginians while sending a clear signal about domestic violence. There’s a lot to like here.”
Both sides framed the deal as a win for Herring (D), whose decision on concealed-carry reciprocity motivated both sides to hammer out a deal.
Screeeeech halt. So an executive political figure decides to toy with the legalities of a person’s right to self-defense and this is considered a good decision? Something’s rotten the state of Denmark.
I don’t mind if those who are convicted of domestic violence have to jump through some serious hoops. I can’t say I particularly care if a private seller at a gun show wants to make sure his buyer pass a background check. But to use a person’s right to carry concealed in other states or to potentially subject out-of-state visitors to charges relating to the illegal possession of a concealed firearm is ridiculous. This could have ruined some people’s lives if allowed to go on.
More importantly, for those living in towns like Bristol, Virginia, where literally half the city is in another state which isn’t covered under the proposed reciprocity changes, you’re effectively forcing that population to either carry illegally (which we never advocate) or engage in some interesting ninja acrobatics to avoid breaking the law.
That’s almost the very definition of the lengths a corrupt, bureaucratic system will go to achieve its agenda. One thing we need to make abundantly clear: real politics should never resemble the machinations of House of Cards.
The only good news from all of this this is that Virginia’s reciprocity agreements won’t be held hostage any longer. At least for now.
Step by step, inch by inch the traitorous gungrabbers are advancing their treasonous schemes. That “voluntary background check” will become mandatory in the near future. I am furious with the VA Republicans. They could have passed a bill and over ridden McAwful’s veto and solved the problem permanently. But NOOOOOO they had to demonstrate why we are called the STUPID party. Idiots!!!
There’s no “good” guys, get over that notion. They all are in it for the power and money, not to be good public servants.
There’s a reason House of Cards is popular in DC, it’s how things really do work.
Look at the language that was used:
“And staties will attend all gun shows to provide background checks on potential buyers at the sellers’ request . . .”
Request. If they don’t ask…
And yet the GOP establishment can’t figure out why Trump is polling so well. Perhaps because the people are tired of being sold out by them?
More of a reason we need to get rid of the Neo Cons/Rinos they do nothing but cuck to the left every chance they can.
They’re practically all neocons now though. Can you name a Republican Presidential candidate other than Rand Paul (or maybe Trump) who isn’t a neocon? Until the Republican party jettisons the neocons and the evangelicals, the future will be nothing but bad news to any true conservative.
Reality is there are two levels of political thinking: lowest level – the populace (who generally want to get things done…right or wrong); the political class (who either want to control the absolute tiniest of things in the lives of each of the populace, or who just enjoy being an “insider” without regard to outcomes).
Once in the political class, the goals become even more personalized. Then the natural instinct of any living organism comes into play….survive my any means necessary.
The day has long gone where politics was about weighty matters of theory and principle. Politics is a game of thrones (to borrow a phrase), meant to be enjoyed only by the select class of rulers. Those in the populace who believe political leaders are to be “servants” will continue to be deluded and frustrated.
Whether the ruling class can ever be turned out of office might be the contest of the day. The result of the presidential election will be an historical event, telling us if the republic can be restored, or not. The iconoclast may be popular for the moment, but the truth can only be known primary-by-primary until the general. Not saying an iconoclast can be an effective president (who will support him?), but such a victory just might indicate the beginning of a sea change in American politics.
Yep. Claim defeat in the teeth of victiry. Stupid party? I call them traitors and enemies of the people and our civil rights.
Republicans!! Just another party of statist cobrrol freaks.
I would be concerned about them lowering the threshold for anyone to have anyone placed under a two-year protective order for domestic-violence. Don’t California place people on a ban list and confiscate due to mere accusation?
They could not. Gun bills can get 2/3 in the House of Delegates, but no way in the Senate.
Thanks for losing for us there VA.
When we come to save your state, we’re only coming to save the real estate.
Let’s sum up… A dem unilaterally usurps our rights and then uses that immoral action to negotiate more attacks on gun rights? Did I get that right?
Yes, he stole what we had then “negotiated” to give them back.
Yes, I believe there is a term for that…and it isn’t “bi-partisan cooperation.”
CHLChris,
Yes you are correct. Thus the following statement is an out-and-out lie
What exactly did Democrats give? Answer: Democrats first took away concealed carry reciprocity with other states and then later graciously “gave it back” in exchange for more background checks and mandatory confiscation from the subjects of domestic violence restraining orders.
I want my cake back.
Anyone who hasn’t seen the “I want my damn cake back” “illustrated guide to gun control” comic strip should certainly look it up. It gives a pretty realistic picture of compromising with gun control advocates.
There is no cake, Rok.
There is no cake. The Dems ate most of the cake and sh!t on the rest so you couldn’t enjoy any.
The cake is a lie…
I love Portal.
Critical clarification:
I oppose the state laws requiring mandatorily disarming the subjects of domestic restraining orders for three extremely important reasons:
(1) Courts issue restraining orders like flight attendants hand out peanuts … and courts issue restraining orders based solely on the unsubstantiated allegations of a single spouse, without any evidence, without any rebuttal from the accused spouse, and without a verdict from a jury of the accused spouse’s peers.
(2) The subject of the restraining order has a right to protect his/her life and, in many instances, has children who also deserve that their parent can effectively protect them from attackers. How can an unarmed parent effectively protect their children from attackers?
(3) An angry person who wants to kill their estranged spouse can easily accomplish that goal without a firearm. Having the luxury to choose the most advantageous time and place to attack as well as having the element of surprise means a determined spouse can easily use a knife, club, ax, car, garrote wire, or even poison or fire to kill their estranged spouse.
That is why I oppose mandatory disarmament of the subjects of domestic violence restraining orders. Restraining orders violate the subject’s right to Due Process, restraining orders violate the subject’s right to defend their life and the lives of those under their care, and restraining orders do absolutely nothing to stop attackers from being able to kill their victims. When a law violates someone’s rights and is utterly incapable of achieving its stated objective, it is obscene.
Here, here. As much as it sounds rational, once you actually think about it, the whole process is just wrong from top to bottom.
Actually the Dems agreed to grant reciprocity to all states that want it with VA. We actually get more than we lost. The deal almost got killed after one of the GOP legislators went on radio bragging about how much more we got from the Dems. The GOP had to agree to raise the penalty for violating the 2 year court order from a misdemeanor to a felony to keep the deal together.
So a little wanna-be dictator unilaterally strips away citizens rights and holds it for ransom to get his way in further restricting or interfering with citizens rights, and this is labeled a “good deal” by the supposed defenders of liberty? And the republican party wonders why they are labeled as spineless? Sad.
Freedom is taken away incrementally, and often by compromise. The fake 2-party paradigm we have today is a perfect example of how this plays out daily.
What is this gun show loop they keep talking about?.. no 4473 no sell….no matter where I buy it.
Yes, the gun show BG check rule costs VA residents nothing, since it just reinforces the status quo. But now the Dems can say that the GOP has acknowledged that the “gun show loophole” exists. They also can also claim victory to their idiot constituents. Congrats, they bravely slew the imaginary monster they themselves invented. Same as it ever was.
Citizens can sell to other Citizens in their home state without the check. If you and I lived in the same state and I had a gun you wanted to buy we could just meet and do the deal. Cash+Gun=Done. Bill of sale, like a pre-70’s car. I don’t think you even have to do a bill of sale(I could be wrong) but I always do. – for the children!
Not in Washington State… it’s gotts go thru an FFL unless they are family.
Not on Long Island even to family if it’s a handgun.
VA is going the same as CA. The East coast cities are growing in size and population and vote almost exclusively (D). The rural parts of the Commonwealth will slowly lose their political voice.
Donate to the Virginia Citizens Defense League(VCDL) even if you don’t live in VA.
The rest of the country will be following CA and VA. Count on it.
Not everyone can leech. There has to be an upland of at least semi productive people on which the leeches can feed. And people past the semi stage of productive potential and willingness, are rarely outright stupid enough to fall for liberalism for very long. Some are, but generally only those most spectacularly insulated by either outsized talent (Hollywood, Sergey Brin like Silicon Valley mega brainiacs.) But you’re talking 1 in a thousand at most. By far the rest of the liberal base, are simple sycophants hoping that regurgitating the same drivel that can sound a bit “cool” coming from Sean Penn, will somehow make them somehow less expendable and useless.
Aside from the way far outliers, anyone capable of doing anything particularly useful and productive, is also very much aware that something as simple and time proven as a firearm, is a pretty darned benign device.
IOW, the road to disarming the heartland, will have to come via the feds. As long as the asset pumping and legal/regulating industries can keep stripping productive people fro the benefit of the urban, bicoastal leeches, those may get the “vote” to ram this down the throats of their betters-in-all-ways-but-financially, which is why enhancing “states rights”, getting as close as possible (or all the way) to secession is so important. Screw highway funds, medicaid blah, blah, and counter by devoting at most 3 cents a year to chasing down “tax cheats”, while simultaneously barring any federal agents from operating independently within ones state. Just freeze the scum out. Nobody in the heartland needs neither DC nor New York. If Kim and the Taliban nuked them both into a pair of glow in the dark roach nests, most people in the country would literally be far better off. So why should all those people put up with those places’ self promoting barckmarkers’ harebrained schemes for “ruling” the rest of the country into a worthless dystopia?
Yup. even if we just got rid of all the libtrash in NOVA it would make it much better. A lot of people from the north keep importing themselves here and bringing their stupid ideology with them. I have no problem with New Yorkers or Jersey folk coming down here if theyre trying to escape the draconian governemnts up there, but dont come down here and bring that crap with you.
I keep telling people. You want to break gun control in America you break it in CA. If not, your rights are just going to wither away.
We need a president that will send in federal troops to ensure civil rights are respected in CA. Just like when the schools were desegergated in the south.
A much preferable option, would be a President presiding over a Federal Government properly limited enough to have no federal troops to send.
I don’t see this as a loss, but rather a win. Reciprocity trumps voluntary background checks.
Personally, when I sell a firearm here in Texas privately I only sell/trade with people with a License to Carry and do a bill of sale or use an FFL if they don’t. I strongly oppose mandatory background checks but if it makes some people feel better and it is not infringing upon the rights of private citizens to sell or trade without it then I am OK with it. It gives the anti’s an illusion of doing something and the option for private sellers to access the NICS system without a charge if they want. People are still free to choose.
Until it becomes mandatory, which it will. The words “no compromise” are my watchwords.
It seems some people here accept the incrementalism used in usurping peoples rights. The lesser of 2 evils is still evil.
Pretty typical. Talk about freedom, do exactly as they’re told despite having the option not to. Sad, but predictable.
Yup.
The only people who are under an illusion are people like you and the republicans who allowed themselves to be held hostage by an unconstitutional executive action to further infringe on their freedoms and still think we’re the ones who actually won something.
So basically what you are saying is “if you aren’t a criminal what do you have to worry about?”
That shows a remarkable level of naïveté, I’ll just leave it at that.
And so, Virginia set out on it’s journey to become the domestic abuse capital of the world……
If I lived in Virginia and had a republican primary challenger in my district this sure would give me extra motivation to throw the bums out. Charlatans.
While not in favor of background checks for all sales. My CWP is my background check here in Florida. Sales between individuals as private property does happen where legal. It is my responsibility to make sure my gun isn’t being bought by a felon. Even if it isn’t by law. Its a personal thing that everyone who owns a gun should care about. But to call that a gun show loophole is a lie. They don’t really exist. We here all know that. Buy a gun at a show. Fill out the paperwork PERIOD.
No one wants a mentally inept or deranged person to have a gun.
For the state of Virginia to hold its citizens hostage is despicable. Reciprocity under the new proposal is better then none at all. To negotiate back what was once freely given is the beginning can be the end for us all though.
Felons and crazies. Because they buy at gun shows. Despite the stats that say they don’t.
I have yet to see a sale with out at the least a form and NICs check at a show here in my part of Florida.
While many private sales may take place in parking lots between individuals.. I haven’t seen it done inside at a sales table during a show. Memorabilia , ammo and militaria . And yes a rifle here and there. A new gun never.
Jay, Maybe that’s the way it is at your gun shows. That said, I live in a free-ish state, private parties sell at gun shows, and save for asking to see their driver’s license (not write anything down, just see they’re a resident) they sell guns. Yup, the ‘gun show loophole’ is quite real – just like it is in the rest of private transactions in most states.
I’ve bough many a NIB gun from a private collector in more than a few states I’ve resided in. There was no NICS.
What you describe is not a loophole. A “loophole” is a gap in a wall. In the case of private, in state, sales the law does not have a gap, the exception to background checks is a specific provision of the law. The “loophole” thing is a device of lawyers to deceive the public into thinking there is a huge mistake in the law that allows people to legally sell guns to criminals. I say it is a lawyer’s device because I know such when I see it. Only lawyers would take a provision in law, endorse preventing non-lawyers (or law enforcement) from accessing information (NICS) that might prevent a sale to a criminal, then decry the fact that citizens are making gun sales without conducting a background check. That sort of twisted logic requires a lawyer at the source.
That’s why it was in ellipses…
I originally read the first line of the quote from the WaPo as, “This is a bipartisan deal that will make Virginians suffer,” McAuliffe spokesman Brian Coy said.” After reading the rest of it, I think I had the right idea in the first place.
Both political parties work together to screw gun owners and citizens at every opportunity.
and get rich, ya forgot that.
+ 1,000
Everything I’ve read says it only removes the ability to concealed carry from those under a domestic protective order, not outright confiscation. I’m still not happy with it but that is a large difference.
Wait is this a victory or are you pointing out just one more way VA firearms owners are getting bent over?
Wow! VA gun owners had to bend over and take a big, fat, long one on this “compromise.”
Note to self: compromise means extortion.
Someone tell me, What exactly stops the AG from then canceling reciprocity again after this goes through?
Not on damn thing. That is why my original post said that they could have passed a bill making reciprocity permanent then over ridden McAwful’s veto and solved the problem permanently.
Awful truth. Legistlators like all task complete workers will do the absolute minimum for their coin. In the end they’re judas to moral principles. To rid this country of democrats, citizens need to remove republicans.
Hopefully this:
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2015/12/29/nra-working-with-virginia-legislature-to-resolve-ags-concealed-carry-fiasco-n2097927
Sounds like a particularly progressive sort of compromise. They take ground then ask you to meet them half-way, rinse repeat.
Said it before, and will say it to my grave. NOT ONE DAMN INCH.
In other News: An earthquake was felt near Lexington,Va. today. Inital reports said it was near Lee Chapel.
(it was Lee flipping in his grave)
Now that’s just fricking ridiculous, as everyone knows that he’s been spinning at 3600 RPM for decades.
Washington Post —
McAuliffe (D) agreed to legislation that says the state must recognize concealed-handgun permits from nearly all states — a reversal of Attorney General Mark R. Herring’s decision last month to sever the reciprocity rights of gun owners in 25 states. In exchange, Republicans softened their stances on issues that have long been non-starters in the GOP-controlled General Assembly. Under the deal, the state would take guns away from anyone who was under a two-year protective order for domestic-violence offenses. And State Police would have to attend all gun shows to provide background checks for private sellers if they requested the service.
If the legislation forces reciprocity from additional states not amongst the 25 the AG removed then that is something new. We will have to wait and see how that language works out. It would be nice if the AG was forced to accept ALL permits from ALL states. This would be a model for national reciprocity and make VA permits highly prized. No longer will we need to get a Utah non-resident permit to increase the state count.
I don’t have an issue with the State Police available to perform background checks at gun shows; aside from the fact that background checks violate the 4th Amendment in the first place. However, since VA is a NICS partner state and all background checks are performed by the State Police and not the FBI, I have always advocated (in lieu of eliminating background checks completely) that the State Police allow private citizens to do background checks. I have sold and bought a few guns through VAGUNTRADER. ALL cite members require good guy papers.
I do take great exception to denying rights to anyone who has not been found guilty, in a court of law, by a jury of his/her peers. Judges hand out restraining orders like candy, especially to women. Hopefully this one will be challenged in the near future and found to be a violation of the 4th Amendment as well.
VA is fast tracking a Bill which will force all children, even home-schooled children, to vaccinate. It is literally a mandatory vaccination bill. A “compromise” is likely the planned outcome where they will exclude home-schoolers(for now), but force vaccination on public and private school children. This is how your freedom is taken away incrementally. BTW, is it any coincidence the same states passing restrictive gun laws are the same states pushing mandatory vaccine laws?
The polio vaccine was mandatory in the 50s. It stopped the spread of the disease. You want to go back to that?
Mike, you support gun rights but also support government control over your medical/health care decisions?
Nope. But the whole “vaccine causes autism” thing is pure BS. This is not the forum for this but there are certain things that can only be done by governments. Myriad examples exist but I will give you just one. In the 40s and 50s you could buy matches that would strike on any surface. After a large number of fires that were caused by them the gov’t put a tax on each one sold. If I recall correctly it is was 2 cents per match. This drove those matches out of the market. Problem solved. So to answer your question, yes I am in favor of mandatory vaccination. To not do that puts the entire nation at risk.
Mike, informed consent is a human right, and if you don’t believe that informed consent for medical risk taking is a human right which must be preserved, good luck with your other (remaining) rights and firearms.
If your children go to government school then fine. Homeschool, I don’t support forced, mandatory vaccination, although I do recommend parents vaccinate their children and public service announcements.
The argument that “not doing so puts the entire nation at risk” is irrelevant because you can justify any decision, poor or otherwise, with that statement.
Yellow, what difference whether a school is public, private, or at home? Either vaccines work or they don’t. Non-vaccinated people don’t only exist in schools, they exist in the supermarket, playgrounds, sports teams, restaurants, and so on. Also keep in kind it is estimated that many adults, especially older adults and the elderly, no longer have vaccine conferred immunity. Where are the outbreaks? Do we keep them isolated also?
The social security card was voluntary in the 30’s and they swore it would never be used for anything but your retirement. there is no reason to board Mr. peabody’s way-back machine to show people accepting mandatory control for the sake of safety.
The irony is that on one hand, some people flat out recognize and reject the “for the children” and the “public safety” propaganda techniques when it comes to protecting gun rights, but then actually repeat the same lines, almost word for word, when it comes to justifying the government trying to take control and remove peoples right to make their own medical decisions.
My right to keep and bear arms in now way effects your safety. Your decision to not vaccinate your child not only effects me, but also my child. Read up on heard immunity and you will learn why it is important to be vaccinated. Here I have provided the link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity
Bill, I’m not going into a pissing match, but will point out the inaccuracies of your post. If non-vaccinated people put vaccinated people at risk, vaccines don’t work. Do they work? Herd immunity was a casual observation, a guess literally, on a non-vaccinated community that appeared to overcome a disease. There is is no scientific evidence vaccine induced herd immunity exists. Herd immunity is often repeated and taken for granted that is scientifically proven in vaccinated communities when no such proof exists. And refrain from using Wikipedia when citing points in anything science related, it is not credible.
If you don’t want a pissing match, don’t start one.
Continually posting off-topic snipes about vaccination on a gun site…you get what you ask for.
Sorry if you miss the big picture, it’s not just gun rights, or medical decision rights that are under attack. Individual liberties across the board are under siege. What good are gun rights if the government has domain over your body and what you put into it? There is no more fundamental right than this, imo. When we lose this, we have become owned livestock, gun rights or not.
Wow, what a great bi-partisan “compromise”.
So by this standard, if I steal my neighbor’s car, and then negotiate with him to give it back in exchange for his television, he should be grateful for my generosity and willingness to compromise.
I’m no scholar, but this seems like negotiating with terrorist. They take something (right to keep and bear arms), then in order to get it back they demand a ransom in the form allowing a bill to pass. Is it just me or does this seem a bit like a hostage situation?
“After a large number of fires that were caused by them the gov’t put a tax on each one sold. If I recall correctly it is was 2 cents per match. This drove those matches out of the market. Problem solved.”
Us Rebels still have em’ saw some in the hardware store yesterday. I did not check the price but I will next time I’m in there. I have about 4,000 in my “trade item” box sealed and saved.
Thanks very much. I was in error. What I was referring to was the old sulfur matches which had a tendency to spontaneously combust in the box. I taught at a business school and that was one of the examples of gov’t regulation for the common welfare.
Do not be deluded. The future of the Republican Party depends entirely on the ability to prove to Demoncrat voters that the Republican Party is not racist, bigoted, anti-immigrant, anti-healthcare, anti-abortion, anti-big goverrnment.
Ok, we got our reciprocity back. Us Virginians fought really hard to do that. Phone calls, emails, letters, Lobby Day, showing up, VCDL etc. Also, part of the agreement is to takeaway the AGs power to do this again. Plus, there is a Constitutional Carry bill working its way through.
Folks here need to stop throwing people under the bus because of what some out of control, governor did.
Point is: We fought back and WON.
Give us that at least.
At what cost? And did we win? McAuliffe stole our rights and then sold them back. It sure seems like he won. A masterful maneuver.
Look at the actual “compromise”. The Republicans gave up very little and most of what they “gave up” is already in the Federal regulations. I think McAuliffe really lost but nobody will admit it until the law is passed and signed. READ what is actually in the bill.
That is exactly what McAwfull wants you to believe. Just ask yourself, what will the Governor and the AG use to hold the rights of Virginia gun owners hostage with next? You think this tactic isn’t going to be repeated elsewhere? I hope not.
Bravo. The original post did not allude to that. I withdraw my objections.
I was very upset by McCauliffe’s initial play to hold reciprocity hostage. I am not upset by this “compromise” because to me it moves things back to the way it was. VA is a no registration, no permit state except for CCW, which is shall issue. Nothing has been done to change or restrict that. Private sales can be conducted without background checks, although as others have noted, many private sellers require a CC permit for their own conscience and protection. As many ATF agents and local police probably troll the gun shows, how can a few State police doing voluntary background checks make any difference? The slight additional restriction on people with 2 year domestic abuse orders will accomplish absolutely nothing, of course. This is feel good for the Dems. Anyone violent enough to be under that kind of order will either ignore the firearms restrictions, or use some other weapon (or fists) in the next altercation. According the to WaPo article, CSGV was furious with McCauliffe for “caving in to the NRA.” That is good news. Let’s just hope that the Dems do not get a majority in the State Senate. A split legislature if ever with a Dem governor would be very bad news. Really we need legislation to let counties move to different states with the permission of the receiving state. NOVA should just join Maryland, and then everyone would be better off. Same with the Boston suburbs in NH. They need to become part of MA and enjoy the high taxes along with the firearms rules.
I take issue with VA being compared to CA. They are in no way similar, other that the fact we both have idiot governors. Sure, Virginia could be better, and this latest developement sucks, but we are still a mostly free state.
Just look at northern Virginia. NOVA is the future of Virginia. That is not going to bode well for the rest of the State.
I think most of you are reading more into this “compromise” than is really in it. Most of the “compromise” is already in the Federal regulations so they really have no impact of us here in Virginia (like a lot of the crap they used to block the out of state carry permits). The voluntary background checks at gun shows is pretty meaningless and the presence of the State Police to run the background checks will only be an additional cost to the state (although several gun shows already have them).
I think it was a total cave by the gun grabbers because McAuliffe could see several bills on the agenda that he knew he would be forced to veto and some of them would probably have enough votes to override his veto. I hope they still push the bills through and make him veto them and justify it.
I have so much confidence in my elected officials that I am still going to take the Utah non-resident concealed carry permit tomorrow and get the permit.
Don’t do it. Just wait for the next republican governor. Bad move.
I don’t see this making anyone “safer.” But I do see potential for abuse. I’m guessing the gun show background check equates to the “universal background check” for private sales? I.E. – lets get a list going.
The AG needs to be taken out. Then the politicians that support this crap.
People need to relax before freaking out over this. The VCDL is heavily involved and this may end up better than people think.
First, the idea here is that we would get MORE reciprocity. Not just the 25 axed states – more that we didn’t have before. This means certain states would automatically recognize us too. Colorado is a great example.
Second, the putting the VSP at gun shows is not necessarily a door to forced background checks. VSP is already at all VA gun shows, they’re simply asking for an increased presence. I really don’t have a problem with that. Every show I’ve been to all the VSP has done is chat about guns with me. I don’t think increased presence would hurt. Last show I was at in Richmond, there were some stoned looking yoots there trying to sell a 44mag wheelgun that looked too heavy for them to lift. I have my doubts they inherited it from granddad or bought it with paper route money.
Last, it’s already federally prohibited for convicted domestic offenders to have a firearm – I don’t think this is anything the VA GOP could have stopped. I don’t necessarily agree with it because judges do hand out protective orders fairly easily, but permanent orders aren’t nearly as easily handed out. I know this first hand – my sister in law is trying to get one right now against a nutjob, and it’s been three hearings since October and still nothing.
Reciprocity is a big deal, and a step towards universal carry and the day states like NJ and NY are forced to respect all permits.
I’d really enjoy being posted at a gun show on duty – some of the folks who go to gun shows are my favorite people in the world. I’d get to talk about guns all day, would burn up my paycheck, and might get divorced – but I’d have fun.
I wish AG’s got fired for this BS. If it’s any consolation the CA and Federal AG’s are both dirty and hate gun rights, too. And just think if we get Obama as a Supreme Court justice.
Dummies. Never negotiate with blackmailers. The danegeld will just keep going up.
Whatever happened to “we do not negotiate with terrorists?”
This will undoubtedly embolden this idiot because he thinks/knows he has them by the balls.
Oh well…grow a spine republitards.
Zero sympathy for domestic abusers. Screw’m. The voluntary BC is meaningless. So overall, this isn’t a loss for gun owners that aren’t assholes. Works for me. The Dems basically lost this battle.
I don’t think we lost anything in Virginia. It is just a way for the Governor to cave without admitting it. His and the AG’s payback for his millions of dollars he spent in the last two elections backfired on them.
Exactly.
Cry me a river for legitimately convicted wife beaters. Scum are scum and no love lost there. It’s already a federal reg. VSP is already at gun shows – that’s a hand wave that means nothing. In the end gun owners come out with more.
McAuliffe saw the electoral writing on the wall and hopefully realized his cabin boy Herring had poked the hornets nest with his dictatorial hubris. (Although that’s giving him a ton of credit.)
The key here is that the deal apparently would recognize almost ALL states, which would give US carry rights in states that recognize whoever recognizes them.
The fact that Herring’s charade will completely backfire is a good thing. He should be humiliated.
I can’t decide which is dumber… giving in to extortion or bragging about it.
That’s not a compromise, it’s a mugging.
We’re taking this away, but we’ll give it back if we can take something else.
There’s no give and take here, there’s just varying degrees of take.
Negotiating with tyrants. You’d think they would have learned their lesson by now?
Do show organizers have to pay for the State Police presence? If the VSP is now going to bring a laptop, air card, etc. for background checks, will there be a fee for the equipment, airtime, etc? It seems like this could expand into a back-door way to put the squeeze on gun shows.
For the great majority of the time, the state police are already at the gun shows. I suspect it will be no different than it is now. Like most of the other “compromises”, it doesn’t change anything and is simply a way for the governor to save face. Of course, the devil is in the details. My State Senator is supposed to be at the Utah non-resident training class I am taking tomorrow and I will ask him if he is there and has the time.
Wow such “COMPROMISE”. Why is it when the pro-gun side compromises they never actually gain anything except the option to keep some of the rights they previously had?
There is some seriously WRONG information floating around in most of these comments.
1. The action by the AG, was ENTIRELY LEGAL. Read the Code. It ALWAYS comes down to the Code of Virginia. Here’s what happened: Some time ago, the requirement for reciprocity was amended to ensure that no state’s permit would be recognized, IF a person UNqualified in Virginia were qualified in that state. All fine and dandy WHEN that provision was added. Over the years, the gun-haters slipped in small, seemingly innocuous changes to Virginia’s code, adding what I call “quirky” disqualifiers, such as arbitrary waiting periods after minor convictions, etc, etc. Two problems: Other states did NOT follow our changes, and nobody bothered to examine and debate the impact to reciprocity when these quirky disqualifiers were added over the years.
Fast forward: The gun-haters READ THE CODE, and figured out that 25 states no longer legally met the requirement for reciprocity. So here we are.
2. There are three major components to this “deal.” The restoration of reciprocity, the VSP conducting voluntary background checks, and the prohibition of those under permanent restraining orders. So far, the FIRST two of these components already have bills filed in the General Assembly. Anyone can go READ the bills to see exactly what they do and do not change. For example, yes, the reciprocity bill DOES remove any qualification comparisons with other states, so yes, we will be getting several more states added to our list.
3. Although there is no bill in place as of the last time I checked, all the talk about the restraining order change indicates that it will ONLY apply to PERMANENT orders, which DO require a judge, and a hearing, and allow for legal representation of both sides. In other words: DUE PROCESS. Also, there is no talk of “confiscation,” or even necessarily revocation of OWNERSHIP, but a prohibition of POSSESSION. Much different than some of the wild stories posted here.
So, was this a good deal or a bad deal? It’s hard to say. There was a LOT of anger among gun owners in Virginia, and we could see some of these results already, with one pro-gun rights bill passing out of the full Senate (the traditional bottleneck to pro-gun bills) a couple days ago with a veto-proof margin. However, there is evidence that this deal has been in the works for nearly a week, based on the filing dates of some of the related bills.
The mistake that was made here was losing vigilance over the law-making process through the years, which allowed the reciprocity surprise to explode on us several weeks ago. I hope that taught everyone a lesson for the future.
Thank you for the added information. Helps in understanding what actually happened, making one wonder if other states have the same ability, or have intentionally set in motion the mechanism to disconnect their states from those with reciprocity.
On another note, it is impossible to negotiate a retreat by the leftist/statists. They never back down, they run screen plays while putting into place a doubling-down of some policy/regulation that was resisted. It may be that this entire episode only revealed weakness to the gun grabbers, weaknesses we have illustrated how to fix.
Thank you for helping me try to explain it. Those that don’t live here and are not following it closely are reading things in it that are not true and have no basis in fact. Those that say voluntary background checks will be followed my mandatory ones don’t understand how the state operates. Those that complain about how much the Republicans gave up didn’t read the information carefully. The drivel about it being a win-win is what they need to say until the bill is passed and it is signed into law. As a resident of the state, I’m very pleased.
Nice post. All the folks pitching a fit about this deal, elections have consequences. If you think the VA GOP sold you down the river, try not voting for 8 years and see how the Commonwealth’s gun laws look then. The state GOP reps wanted to do get reciprocity back, and they did that. They had to make 2 compromises, one of which is microscopic (State Police at gun shows) and the other of which is concerning (protective orders), but probably not more concerning than the lose of reciprocity. Face it, if a few thousand more Virginians had voted for Cuccinelli instead of Robert Sarvis we don’t have this problem.
Well, as a Virginian, I take a different view than a lot of the posters here. Here’s the chronology to my way of thinking:
2013: The Republican-controlled legislature passes a bill that cleans up some of the language and administrivia of the CHL Law. The law goes into effect in 2014. I don’t know if they saw the intended consequences or not, but the law said that for VA to have reciprocity with other states, those states had to have rules that rejected applicants based on criteria that would cause VA to reject a permit. The law was not enforced, at all, for two years.
2014: Anti-gunner Mark Herring gets elected AG, with help from Bloomberg
2015: A CSGV lawyer approaches Herring with a way to pay back Mikey. He can start strictly enforcing this law. The CSGV gives him a full analysis of the perceived discrepancies and also notices that inexplicably documentation of the reciprocity agreements for most of these states are missing from in the AG office’s records and the few they do have are over 10 years old. The AG’s office sends out letters to the AG’s offices of all reciprocity states on July 6. In Dec., he announces dropping reciprocity with 25 states, to take effect Feb. 1. Despite public outcry, McAuliffe and Herring stand firm. BTW, it turns out a turncoat Republican legislator helped in all this and he’s been publicly called out and he will pay.
2016: Jan, 18th: 1,200+ members of the Virginia Citizens Defense League show up for Lobby Day, flooding the Capitol Office Building with OC’ers wearing bright orange “Guns Save Lives” stickers. We talk to every legislative office about the reciprocity debacle. We all hold a rally right under Herring’s office window, covered by all the major media. Every one of the speakers decries Herrings’ actions on reciprocity. McAuliffe realizes it’s a battle he and Herring can’t win. Within less than two weeks of Lobby Day (faster than he’s ever done anything), he’s quickly hammers out a full retreat, overruling his AG, with some “compromises” in it so he can save face. If you look at the compromises, they are pretty much what was in place already. There is rarely a clear, clean win in politics.
So are there still infringements? Oh yeah. The NRA estimates that there are over 30,000 infringements to 2A across the country. But in this case, gun rights supporters reacted quickly and effectively to an immediate threat and got results. And I think we taught them a lesson.
The other issue we brought up on Lobby Day was the ban on legal CC in Gubernatorial-controlled state office buildings. We expect some compromise on that soon also. All politics is compromise. But I’m proud of what we in the VCDL accomplished.
Well said. Politics is a battle. You take your lumps and make the best out of what you have. Burning the house down only helps the opposition, because they aren’t going to quit.
Regarding your comment on what happened in 2013, it is not correct that the content of code was changed in that reorganization of the CHP law. That change was only in format to the law, not content.
For proof, you can see the actual bill as passed and signed by the Governor, including what was deleted and what was added (in the new format) here:
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?131+ful+CHAP0746+hil
Search for the term: “adequate to prevent possession of”. There are two instances, one where the *existing* term was deleted, and the other where it was added in the new format.
I’m not sure how many years ago this condition was added, but it was prior to 2013.
You have to not only read the applicable section, but the preamble to Chapter 746, the whole legislative package. I never said that language was added. But the section you referenced, 18.2-308.014, was “amended and reenacted.” The “reenacted” part is important. So the Republican legislature essentially made it new law, even though that part was the same as the old law. The reason I think this opened the door for Herring is that he and his supporters could say, and they did, “Almost the same group of currently sitting legislators put their stamp of approval on this two years ago. We didn’t dust off some old law to do this.”
IMHO, you’re way down in the weeds. I read through that entire bill, all it did was reformat one VERY LONG unreadable law into about a dozen sections that were easier to follow. That change had nothing to do with what happened here. They SPECIFICALLY left it absolutely unchanged, because they didn’t want anyone to be able to accuse them of sneaking in some small change. That is why I, and many other very cautious people, read the entire bill through – just to make sure.
Every year the GA does not change a law, one could say that they are approving it as it is. So what.
I am also kind of disappointed by this outcome. The bills passed with a veto-proof majority of both Democrats and Republicans, so if McAwful had vetoed, it could have been overridden. This makes me wonder why it came out this way.
The way I figure it, they must have decided the Goobernor would either 1) drag his feet on it so long the session would end and nobody would come back to Richmond to actually vote to override, or 2) the Dems might bail on a veto override vote leaving the Republicans swinging in the breeze with nothing to show but the egg all over their faces. Hence, a deal was struck where something would actually happen, face was saved on all sides and we end up wondering why it always looks like sausage.
What bills passed with a veto proof majority? In VA, you can get 2/3 in the House of Delegates, but not in the Senate. Almost all attempts to override McAullife’s vetos on any bill on any topic have failed.
JohnF, Cadeyrn is correct, sort of. ONE pro-gun bill had recently passed the Senate with a veto-proof majority, SB 175, which prohibits the state from sharing CHP information with states with which Virginia does not have reciprocity. (This was in response to the abuse by Maryland police running tags of out-of-state vehicles, finding that they have permits from their home state, then stopping them for “traffic infractions,” and harassing them for hours at a time in search of illegally carried guns!) That vote was 28-12.
However, Cadeyrn may be unaware that this “deal” has been in the works for a couple weeks already, and in all likelihood, That may be the reason why this bill, and soon to be the others more directly related to the deal, will pass, and the Governor will sign, and not veto.
Or, I could be wrong. It is possible that the CHP Information sharing issue gathered enough support on its own merit, and it does remain to be seen if McAuliffe will sign it, or if he vetoes it, will the support hold to override. It’s always interesting.
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