A 28-year-old Fort Worth Texas woman was shot and killed by police early Saturday morning after they received a welfare call from a neighbor reporting a door open at her home. The woman was shot from outside the house through a window by one of the responding officers.
From the Fort Worth Star-Telegram . . .
Atatiana Jefferson, 28, died in a bedroom, according to the Tarrant County Medical Examiner’s Office.
Officers responded at 2:25 a.m. to the house in the 1200 block of East Allen Avenue. James Smith, who called a non-emergency police number, said he saw the doors were open and the lights were on, which struck him as unusual. He knew Jefferson, his neighbor, was home with her 8-year-old nephew. …
“Put your hands up! Show me your hands!” he shouts through the window, his gun drawn. He then fires a single shot through the window.
In the video, he does not identify himself as an officer.
Jefferson was playing video games with her nephew when they heard what they believed to be a prowler outside, her relatives’ attorney said. When she went to the window to see what was going on, she was shot, the attorney said.
When they entered the house after the shooting, police reportedly found a handgun.
They’ve released body camera footage and a still of the gun that was found, but didn’t say if Jefferson was holding it when the officer shot her.
Neighborhood leaders
Police said they wanted to be transparent with a quick response in releasing a portion of body camera video. But they said they were unable to release video from inside the house, citing state law.
The police department did not offer answers to a list of questions the Star-Telegram sent it, including those that asked whether Jefferson had held a weapon, what the officer perceived as a threat and if officers knocked on the front door or identified themselves as police officers.
“Being the preliminary stages of this critical investigation we have provided all the information we have available to release at this time,” Lt. Brandon O’Neil, a police spokesman, wrote in an email.
Here’s the AP’s report . . .
A black woman was fatally shot by a white Fort Worth, Texas, officer inside her home early Saturday after police were called to the residence for a welfare check, authorities said.
The shooting occurred after a neighbor called the police non-emergency line to report that the front door to the home was open, according to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.
In body camera video released by police, two officers search the home from the outside with flashlights before one shouts, “Put your hands up, show me your hands.” One shot is then fired through a window.
Police said in a statement that the woman was pronounced dead at the scene. The Tarrant County Medical Examiner’s Office identified her as 28-year-old Atatiana Jefferson.
The officer does not identify himself as police in the video. Police said the officer, who’s been on the force since April 2018, was placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of an investigation.
Officials have not released the officer’s name.
In the statement, police said the responding officers saw a person near the window inside the home. The officer fired the single shot after “perceiving a threat,” the statement said. The bodycam video also included images of a gun inside the residence, but it’s unclear if the firearm was found near the woman.
Neighbor James Smith, who initially called police, told the Star-Telegram he was just trying to be a good neighbor.
“I’m shaken. I’m mad. I’m upset. And I feel it’s partly my fault,” Smith said. “If I had never dialed the police department, she’d still be alive.”
Smith said Jefferson and her 8-year-old nephew typically lived with an older woman, who’s been in the hospital.
“It makes you not want to call the police department,” the neighbor said.
Local activists held a press conference Saturday, asking the city to hold the officer who fired the shot accountable. Pastor B.R. Daniels Jr. said he wants the police department to stop what he called “shooting first, asking questions later.”
“We want a review of policy, procedures. How do you storm a house, kill a young lady, with an 8-year-old minor in the house, who could have been killed himself,” Daniels said.
Authorities said the bodycam footage was released soon after the shooting to provide transparency, but any video taken inside the house could not be distributed due to state law.
The shooting comes less than two weeks after a white former Dallas police officer was sentenced to 10 years in prison for killing her black neighbor inside his own apartment. Amber Guyger said during her trial that mistook Botham Jean’s apartment for her own, which was one floor below Jean’s.
Guyger, 31, was convicted of murder for Jean’s September 2018 death.
It makes me want to, oh, I don’t know, call my neighbor before calling the police. But of course that means actually needing to get to know the neighbors…
I wasn’t there and will wait for the investigation to conclude, but this sure sounds like a bad shoot at this point.
No One of Consequence,
The people who own the home next door to me do not actually live there. Nevertheless, we know them well enough to call police when someone drove into their driveway at 11:15 p.m. one evening and somehow managed to open the garage door.
County Sheriff deputies arrived about 15 minutes later to investigate. While the first two deputies investigated, I approached a third deputy who arrived late. I held a flashlight on myself so he could clearly see me.
It turns out that our neighbor invited out-of-town relatives to stay at their unoccupied home. And the deputies who responded did NOT shoot neither me nor the out-of-town relatives.
Sometimes, strange things happen even when you know your neighbors. And if police do their job correctly, they don’t shoot anyone who doesn’t need shooting.
Another example of why I’ve said numerous times here on TTAG that I keep all my window blinds closed at night. No way I ever want to allow anyone to see in, especially if I’m walking around inside with my gun to investigate a suspicious noise (a burglar once attempted to break in at midnight, and damaged a window in the process before being scared off).
Or the person who called 911 might have tried calling the neighbor’s house right afterward, as a follow-up measure to get more information on the condition of said neighbor before the cops show up with guns drawn.
I don’t know if you are all familiar with “Mike The Cop’s” YouTube channel, but here is his take on the whole thing: https://youtu.be/Ei2EKckLKrw
He videos are articulate, and I believe he is spot on with this incident.
Death penalty or life in prison. This shit has to stop and pigs need to be held accountable. They are hated in the USA for a reason. The USA is the only civilized country on earth where pigs can do this shit and get away with it.
Are you kidding me!?!? You need to travel to other countries and see how much power the police have. You’ll be wishing to deal with American police afterwards. For real. I get this is enraging and these police are cowards. But take a trip to China, or Russia, or Mexico, even Europe, and see what it’s like to deal with police who have far more power then they do in America. In many of those countries they’ll simply disappear you and nothing makes the news. That’s why you don’t ever hear about police in Russia or China doing shit like this, because the media won’t and can’t report it and is state run, and the police have the authority to do as they please.
I lived in China for a number of years and while “on paper” the police might seem to have more “power” than in the US it’s not quite handled the same way. Personally I have had to deal with the police there a few times and they have almost always been much more professional than when dealing with police in the US.
Whatever floats your boat, but I certainly wouldn’t want to deal with police in a communist country where they have 2 million people in concentration camps in their western provinces. They might be more polite and professional at first but they’ll have no problem dragging you into some back room for a beating or worse.
You are correct. Even in communist countries, citizens have heated altercations (differences of opinion) with police officers and do not end up in jail or dead.
Recently, an altercation between subway passengers (in a major American city) was defused by two police officers from Scotland with no loss of life and minimal violence. It would seem that American police should be trained in de-escalation tactics, rather than the israeli “command and control” tactics (which are used on Palestinians by israeli police and military daily). I guess that “we are all Palestinians, now”…
Maybe that’s because you were an American citizen living in China. Big difference. The Soviets treated American citizens differently than they treated their own people.
“Even in communist countries, citizens have heated altercations (differences of opinion) with police officers and do not end up in jail or dead.“
Anarchyst that’s because later the secret police come to your home and take off to a gulag. For someone that’s trying to come off as anti authoritarian police you sure seem to love communism. I’m willing to be you’re a Chinese troll.
I hope you never get into a legal dispute with a Chinese citizen when you are in China. The judges nearly always take the Chinese side of the story, unless hard proof is presented by you and your Chinese lawyer.
Endemically, China is very racist against Westerners…
“When would you need a LAWYER in CHINA?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBAyNBI82Dk
The majority of these commenters who claim that cops in foreign/communist countries are worse fail to understand that in those countries there is one HUGE difference, the people are disarmed, secondly there is another huge factor in that the government has control over the populous through intimidation. Here in the US, law enforcement use the 2nd amendment right of gun ownership as a crutch and excuse to shoot first or over-react.
Additionally, the majority of law enforcement fail to know that the 4th amendment exists! ” The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses………..” Going around this house shining lights into windows is a direct invasion of privacy. All they needed to do was to go to the front door and announce their presence, multiple times if necessary until they get a response.
This POS cop over-reacted an needs to pay the penalty for murder!
Generally a good rule of thumb is this:
If the police get to wear masks, dont trust um.
If the police dont, trust the ones that prove themselves trustworthy.
The nature of police activity in other countries might be of interest to some however it is entirely beside the point, as this shooting took place in the U.S. and involved what one assumes was an American Citizen and an American Police Officer. No need to, nor is it appropriate to mix “apples and oranges”, or to otherwise becloud issues.
Well, other countries were brought into the conversation by that poster. Making the ludicrous notion that “only in America are police bad” deserves the ridicule I gave it.
Stop….. It’s VERY relevant to point out the COWARDICE of these “badge thugs”….
I’m here to tell you, I am TOTALLY on the side of the law, but this crap DOES have to stop…
Police are employed BY THE PEOPLE to SERVE AND PROTECT….. NOT SHOOT FIRST AND ASK QUESTIONS LATER….
I want to see police START TREATING EVERY SUSPECT WITH THE SAME RESPECT YOU WOULD YOUR EMPLOYER….. BECAUSE THE PEOPLE ARE YOUR EMPLOYER….
MORONS….
What does that have to do with what me or Alan said? We were discussing the appropriateness of wether other nations belong in the conversation. What you said doesn’t really make sense.
I have traveled to other countries, Japan was exquisite, I didn’t meet even so much as a single rude person, much less a cop.
JAPAN? there are good and bad there just like everywhere. BUT….have you ever been to Japanese jails? If you do NOT work to the satisfaction of the prison guards, you are forced to sit in a tiny cell with your legs straight out, your back not touching anything and you cannot move…..it doesn’t take long before you start apologizing for your laziness…….
Also Arc in many European countries you can be fined and even jailed for “hate speech”, simply for speaking out against Islam.
That’s not what my sister told me. She was working an advanced degree a while back. Something to do with environmental science. She had to travel abroad. One summer she was on the Baja peninsula tagging sea turtles. The next, diving on the Great Barrier Reef measuring coral or something. Finally in Thailand living in a Buddhist monastery counting tree frogs. She always took extra time to see the sights. After Thailand she went to Japan. Hated it. Said they were the rudest people she ever met. I think Africa and South America are the only continents she hasn’t visited. Oh, and the subcontinent. Europe several times. Believe I’ll trust her judgment. If things are so grand elsewhere, move there. You won’t be missed.
Oh I plan to Gadsden, either the southern coast of Alaska, northern Idaho, right on out into bumfuck nowhere. Or the north west coast of Norway. You can own guns in Norway too, only 4M people there and it a huge ass country, very clean and beautiful place. Just stay out of Oslo, all the muslims congregate there. It all comes down to retirement money.
Before you say “But guns are a right in the USA” Well, seeing the NFA, CGA, bump stock bans, and red flag “laws” its looking more like a privilege than a right. “We the people” are too pacified to ever revolt or in leftist terminology “Do something!”. Of course if there was ever a civil war, duty and oath demands that I return, but until then, there is absolutely no reason for me to put myself through the stress of living here.
Sometimes I regret ever having run off to fight for this country, err, Bush & Saudi co, and banksters. Its become a police state where pigs can flash bank babies, shoot peoples pets, ruin lives over tea leaves, and otherwise confiscate property via civil asset forfeiture without due-process of law. I’ll add shooting mothers through the windows of their own homes to that list.
Arc, Idaho and Alaska are subject to the U.S. Code and are policed by, let me think, oh yeah, U.S. police officers. (The term “pigs” fell out of fashion in the early ’70s.) That was shortly after officers began wearing Porky Pig tie tacks. It’s not fun when it’s not an insult anymore. Yeah, you can have a firearm in Norway. Every other European country too. And it’s really easy! Go getcha’ some!
No shit, however the population density in north Idaho and the coast of Alaska is so sparse that you won’t come across other people unless you want to. Plenty of land on the south coast that is boat / air access only.
Norway is one of the easier countries to own weapons in and you can get all the same title II rifles there as you can here, just a range / hunting club member for a year. NFA shit is off limits but how many people actually go through the hassle to get ammo wasters anyway? Not many. The only ammo waster I want is an original 1918 BAR but fat chance on me ever going through the paperwork hell to get one.
Pull your head out of your back side. The man was only trying to make a point about what these PIGs are getting away with in this country but no, you have to show he is wrong and what a F-ing expert you are on the subect. Who gives a shit what goes on in foreign countries.
As for you PIGs on here maybe you should clean up your own house before telling the rest of us how much we should respect you and how scared you get, cry me a bucket.
No indication of an emergency so lets go on the property, in the garage, with no warrant and become oh so frightened so shoot the first thing that moves. All the PIGs on here will back you up…….ass holes!!!!
Hey retard, he was the clown that brought other countries into this conversation, not me. Don’t get all butthurt and mad at me because I showed him up. So cry in your safe space you liberal bitch.
Grouch, did you forget to stop dropping acid when the counter culture thing was over? Pigs is so Woodstock. A Texas police officer was just convicted of murder for killing an innocent man in his own home. Police in the United States answer for their mistakes same as any other citizen.
Gadsden, You’re so full of shit your kid’s hair is brown!!! One cop is convicted, while HUNDREDS of others receive no punishment at all! The only reason that that female cop was convicted is because the situation was so F’ed up they couldn’t cover that one up – there was way too much public outcry.
The cops in this instance were in direct violation of the rights of the homeowner under the 4th amendment — “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses…..” Cops have no business wandering all over private property, shining lights into and looking into windows. Their first order of business should have been to go to the front door and announce who they are and why they are there, and do it multiple times if necessary until they get a response. If they are so scared of being shot then they shouldn’t be cops.
TTAG comments are becoming increasingly filled with trolls, try not to feed them too much.
I lived in the Middle East for six years. You do NOT want to have any interaction with the “police”. They can, at their discretion shoot anyone, especially foreigners, kafir, (infidel). No repercussion.
Yes, and we don’t Live in China, Russia or Mexico. We expect more from Americans. Jail time is not warranted. It’s a case of bad instincts, training and cowardice. I say this because police are taught to take NO chances with their Lives. Well you know what?… You signed up for this Job, knew it was potentially dangerous and probably Like to tout at Every opportunity just now dangerous it is. Man up. Take a chance with your Life in order to not take a chance with someone else’s. The homeowner had no training. She didn’t sign up for this. You did. If I fuck up at work, my boss or the client Loses a Little time or money. When police fuck up an innocent can Lose their life. Let me repeat that Label: AN INNOCENT. This woman was killed in her own home minding her own business. It could have been any one of us or our Loved ones. I don’t think this Cop is a bad guy. I don’t know him. But what I do know is that he absolutely should not be a police officer. Body cameras are providing accountability. For both sides.
Hey dumberthenme, he was the assclown that brought the other countries into this conversation. So go fuck yourself retard.
Well played sir. Your wit has put me right in my place.
The police in communist countries have unlimited powers and will make anyone they want out of the way disappear with no accountability, unless the person they tried to disappear was more politically connected than the police involved. It happened at least twice in my immediate family and in at least one of the cases my ancestor was given a choice of a fate for the policemen involved.
He was more merciful to the policemen who detained and tortured him than they had been to him.
Did not make CNN or whatever was the media then.
So because government thugs are worse in other nations we should put up with thugs in the US? No thanks. We must disarm cops. Citizens should be armed, not civilian government employees.
This is a shame. IF the woman approached the window with a gun in her hand, then the officer may be justified in shooting. IF he reacted our of fear for his life – that is a judgment call. But How about doing what someone suggested in comments? CALL THE NEIGHBOR before calling police? and to the uninformed and the stupid person who called our wonderful officers, “PIGS” – note that the police do NOT have to come and I hope in your case they don’t if you ever need them. IN FACT – call the police and say if I ever call – DON”T COME!
. Warren Vs. D.C. A federal judge ruled that police do NOT have the duty or responsibility to come when a call for help goes out.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
The police are employees of the PEOPLE you MORON….. THE SOONER YOU REALIZE THAT, THE SOONER POLICE WILL START TREATING THEIR EMPLOYERS WITH RESPECT….
HOW THE FK UP…. THESE PIGS ACTED LIKE SCARED, IMMATURE CHILDREN WHO OBVIOUSLY HAD NO BUSINESS HANDLING A FIREARM..
STOP TRYING TO SHIFT THE BLAME AWAY FROM THOSE RESPONSIBLE….. THE MORONIC POLICE
Hey George, you ever done the job? Why do I have the feeling you would piss your pants if you ever got into a high stress situation. Or, maybe you’re the guy that always managed to have a desk job, but badge and weapon made him feel like a man. I’ve had to work with them both. Always felt like taking a shower after dealing with either.
Hey George,
I didn’t hear you. Can you please add some more caps and phony cuss words?
#kthxbai
This is 10000000% accurate. #maga. Respect the people!
Try yelling that into a police person’s face as you are yelling it here. At best you will be arrested on some anti police charge, pray you did not move and kept your hands in plain view, and you might just have to spend a few tens of thousands in defense, or opt for a public defender (whose office, once they discover you are not indigent will promptly send an invoice) and either way be at best liable for a misdemeanor and a few months in prison. Sure, you can file to have your firearms returned, wasn’t a felony after all, but the police persons cannot recall taking any firearms and the paperwork filed does doesn’t show any firearms taken from your home when they searched it as you were making new friends at your taxpayer sponsored spa vacation.
First of all, hsabin is an idiot to bring up the fact that a federal judge ruled that police do NOT have the duty or responsibility to come when a call for help goes out — so then, hsabin, exactly WHAT is their job? Decisions by leftist asshat judges are no decision at all, just look at all of the BS decisions that have been levied against Pres. Trump in the last three years, only to be overturned in the higher courts!
When is the last time you saw a police force stand up against one of these “killer” cops? Even the woman cop who was recently convicted, was supported by her fellow thugs! Of course, now that she has been convicted, you’ll start hearing some of those fellow cops “CLAIM” that they did not support her.
But secondly, the fact is that law enforcement no longer works for the people, they work for the corrupt bureaucraps in our governments (local, state, federal). That is the reason that these half-assed thugs get away with 99% of their illegal acts and their enforcement of so many illegal/unconstitutional laws. Corrupt cops work for corrupt bureaucraps! Are there good cops? NO, let me say that again, NO! ALL COPS follow orders, and those many of orders violate the Constitution, on a daily basis, and the so called “good cops” follow those orders or they would be out of a job! When your justification to violate your oath of office, the Constitution, and the rights of the people is to keep your job, then you have no honor and you’re no better than the corrupt bureaucraps you work for.
ease up on the caffeine,
I’m generally not a fan of the police either, but screaming like a madman aint gonna make your case.
He was in the back yard without identifying himself in a clear manner. They arrived on a non 911 call without lights or siren. The screen door was closed which isn’t out of the norm this time of year. Frankly, he could have been drilled and it been a justifiable shooting. Texas courts have ruled that way in the recent past when a detective crawled through the window during a no knock warrant raid. It is questionable if they should have even gone through the gate into the back yard at that point.
Given that I have pets, I do not want them to come, they only cause more problems.
The time it takes them to get out here into the country side to begin with means they will only arrive to fill out paperwork, not prevent any crimes.
I’ll also add that I have been the subject of police in plain cloths (looking like thugs) getting the wrong house, in the past, and have been subject to police brutality on the same damn occasion. “pig” is absolutely fitting.
Some cops do have an work the desk but sometimes they get out on road details here in Mass. I was following one on a friday afternoon he was in his personal car and I didn’t know he was a cop. The driver began drifting into the opposite lane while on the phone. I did what I do to all persons driving and using the phone I blew my horn. Surprise when he stopped his car in the middle of an intersection got out in uniform and began berating me. Actually it was more like intimidation because”he was important, he was going to lunch”. Funny part the plate on the vehical he was driving was SOBX.
If you saw someone creeping around outside your windows at 0300 would you go investigate with a gun in your hand? I have and will continue to. Fortunately it has always ended up being nothing serious and no cops were ever around to shoot me.
I will say that when I have actually needed cops, getting them to show up has been difficult, and getting them to do their job has been even harder. But they do pop up on me at inconvenient times to throw their weight around and have occasionally tried to enforce laws that don’t even exist.
Seems like disbanding police departments would save more lives and property than it would cost.
So do I. But I shut the Lights off, Lest someone shut MY Light off.
Nope, I just yell real loud from inside my house.
“MJ, get the shotgun and let ripper out of the kennel, some idiot is prowling in the poison oak again!”
If I hear alot of movement, I call the cops, if I hear nothing?…its was the wind.
They’re working on improving their image:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sxXd6ATOPh8
First, the police are not PIGS. They are human beings trying to do a very difficult and dangerous job, while still trying to come home to their own families every night. This shooting was tragic, and, yes the officer seems to be at fault for not identifying himself nor waiting to see if the woman would heed his command. He should be held responsible, however. Whether due to lack of sufficient training, this woman was killed. In an ideal world, it should not have happened. Perhaps by awarding the woman’s family a big settlement, the police force will seek to train their officers better and thus protect more lives instead of shooting first and asking questions later.
This one didn’t do the LE community any favors. Entering the gate was mistake number 1. Probable cause was beyond weak at that point as established by the non emergency call and the fact that there was a closed screen door. They had not made their presence as police officers known.
These comments are all BLM and antifa type Losers posting on decent folks forums to ruffle feathers. Don’t take the bait. In a decade when they grow up and get jobs and have a Life they’ll be the decent folk(most of them)Laughing at the arrogant ignorance that comes with a Lack of experience and responsibility inherent in youth.
I’ve been on here for years, I’m to the right of Attila the Hun, and this TWAT cop needs to rot in jail for 10+ years.
He’s a F’n idiot and he killed an innocent person and it doesn’t matter if she had a gun in her hand or not.
@doesky2
Lets wait ten years, is the woman still dead? yes? then why the hell should the pig get out?
Doesky2 and arc: I’m cutting and pasting my comment from above in case you got the wrong idea that I have this cowards back:
“Yes, and we don’t Live in China, Russia or Mexico. We expect more from Americans. Jail time is not warranted. It’s a case of bad instincts, training and cowardice. I say this because police are taught to take NO chances with their Lives. Well you know what?… You signed up for this Job, knew it was potentially dangerous and probably Like to tout at Every opportunity just now dangerous it is. Man up. Take a chance with your Life in order to not take a chance with someone else’s. The homeowner had no training. She didn’t sign up for this. You did. If I fuck up at work, my boss or the client Loses a Little time or money. When police fuck up an innocent can Lose their life. Let me repeat that Label: AN INNOCENT. This woman was killed in her own home minding her own business. It could have been any one of us or our Loved ones. I don’t think this Cop is a bad guy. I don’t know him. But what I do know is that he absolutely should not be a police officer. Body cameras are providing accountability. For both sides.” He’s just cowardly and incompetent, not a criminal.
Why should tax payers pay for this man’s crime? If he killed this woman illegally and or unethically then he should go to prison. Punishing a third party is just plain stupid. Why not take the money from the police force’s pension fund if you are going to go after a third party (they are closer to the offender than the taxpayers)? I am not advocating punishing his coworkers for his crime just pointing out that punishing some one other than the criminal is wrong.
Perhaps where you live.
In my community they are tax collectors with guns. Its sad what the municipal police have allowed themselves to turned into.
I almost became a police officer, we’re ALL glad i didn’t do that. I’d have been the worst cop ever.
Oy, I saw the bullies in my unit all going PMO/police pipeline, all the jerks who never “got some”. I entertained cop as well because of the generous salary but the corruption was just too much and I sought more ‘honorable’ work.
Not tax collectors… Cops are facilitators of revenue sharing (especially the traffic cops)
Wow Arc. You are gonna save the Justice system a ton of money! Instead of doing thorough investigations and holding trials and stuff they can just email you some other keyboard commando, in your mom’s basement within a few hours of an incident and go straight to an execution, saving all of those tax dollars wasted determining ALL of the available facts and going to the expense of trials and stuff. If that officer is proven guilty of some crime he should be punished to the full extent of the law, but unless and until he is proven guilty of something, he is presumed innocent. Opinions are not facts.
Point of Order; I am actually at work, in my career field of 25 years. I live with my wife, not my mom. Neither we, nor my mom, have a basement. Thank you.
Basements are awesome! One of the things I miss now that I’m in the gunshine state. I don’t miss high taxes and over-regulation. It’s nice to go about a routine day without unknowingly violating multiple Laws and regulations Like in the People’s Republic of New Jersey.
Hopefully you VOTE in opposition to all the “peoples republic” friendly laws that are being pushed upon the “Gunshine State” by all those other Yankee refugees… Keep my state Red…..
Bill Gates and Steve Jobs lived with the Mom, in the basement, with keyboards
…. just say’n
Came here to comment the same. They should be hung immediately but the people of the town. The very same people who they supposedly serve and protect. The shit has to stop. Cops have become more than pigs, they are jack booted thugs and should be treated as such. People need to get over the thin blue line bullshit and show them that they are nothing more than human beings like the rest of us.
In Spain and many other countries along the Mediterranean Sea, the police yell only once to get down before they begin shooting. If you get shot, that’s just too bad. In Marseille one night I was teamed up with a French policeman who did not carry a holstered firearm, however, he kept his right hand in his pants pocket. We approached a dark doorway and he yelled into it. There was no movement or sound. As we got closer I could then see an Arab who was wearing a long hooded robe with the hood over his head and hiding his face. The policeman grabbed the guy by his robe below his neck with his left hand and withdrew his right hand from his pocket and slapped this guy a number of times on the side of his head. A mugger. The policeman called on his communications device and then sat the guy on the curb. A patty wagon was quick to arrive and took the Arab away.
The policeman had his hand on a pocket pistol the whole time and had the pistol in his hand when he slapped the guy in the head. We then continued along our way.
Long story short, you have no clue what you are saying.
In the Philippines a friend of a friend of mine had his watch stolen right off his wrist by a guy that just ran up to him and off just that fast. A block up the road they saw and spoke to a policeman about the theft. The policeman started walking back the same way they just came and then turned into an alley. After a few minutes there was a gun shot and after a few more minutes the policeman came back to my friend and his friend and handed the friend back his watch. The policeman then just walked away. No discussion, no questions, no report.
I have a dozen or more stories including one about 6 sailors that we left behind in Sicily after they were thrown in jail for car theft, never to be heard of again. They were drunk and instead of walking down a hill they got into a parked car and coasted down the hill in it.
Overseas cops don’t play and now with terrorism the way it is the police are apt to react before they access.
Keep what I just told you in mind if you ever grow up and visit abroad. Overseas, not a chick.
I won’t defend our cops here, because they do push for a police state, and police state laws. But, if you don’t think it is worse in other countries, you simply have not traveled outside the US.
How would you react to a pair of uniformed people openly carrying Thompson sub-machineguns through your neighborhood? You probably think that would be someplace in Africa, or the back-country in Asia? Try Italy. Visit the Wikipedia and look up the carabinieri. When they pull the trigger, there IS NO INVESTIGATION.
I know the Carabinieri because we went eyeball to eyeball with them in 1979, seven of us with M-14’s against 18 of them with Thompsons. The impasse was broken when our Chief Gunner’s Mate set up Ma Deuce on the bridge wing behind us.
Giving credit where credit is due, those Italians didn’t flat out run away, but they did fade out of sight quickly!! And, NO ONE stepped foot aboard our ship who wasn’t invited.
Umm wouldn’t identifying yourself as a police officer be a pretty good idea?
Yes, it would have been appropriate to say the very least.
What kinda pansy ass shit do they teach LE these days. I think it makes more sense for people to form their own militias and call upon eachother for help then relying on the state.
Amen
I’ll up vote that!
Yes….. EXCELLENT idea….. THIS is what should be happening anyway….
The state abuses their power too much and killing innocent civilians (even by accident) shows exactly the problem…. THIS IS THE EPITOME OF WHY POLICE ARE HATED BY THE PEOPLE (THEIR EMPLOYERS)…
I don’t hate police George. I’d just much rather rely on myself, family, and friends for protection then the government. It’s evident that government hiring and training standards just aren’t what they used to be.
Merle O, that idea has been raised before. In a simpler time that worked. Let me ask some practical questions. Are you going to burn your vacation time to investigate the armed robbery of the local convenience store last night? Or, the burglary two blocks west of you? Who’s going to process the forensic evidence you collected from the homicide? You know the one you’ve had to take a leave of absence from to work because you have no vacation time left? For that matter, who are you going to submit the evidence to? L.E. agencies run the labs. They’re gone. Militias are running things. Your neighbor going to set up a DNA lab in his garage? It’s a nice, but impractical, idea.
That’s true. But I would like to see a return of what the militias were in this country before the militia control act of 1903. I think that was one of the greatest betrayals in this nation.
@Gadsden One of the reasons crime is at an all time Low pretty much across the board(don’t Let our inundation with info via the internet fool you into believing that it’s more prevalent just because we hear about it more)is because of advanced investigation techniques. All the things you pointed out are true. How about privatizing police forces? We could fire the whole Lot of them if they don’t meet our expectations. Just Like any other contracter. There will be multiple other firms Lining up for the contracts. Firms that must do the job correctly and only hire and keep employees who won’t Lose them Lucrative contracts. Effort will be spent on things Like processing rape kits and solving actual crimes instead of busting kids for skateboarding or smoking weed and raising funds for bullshit Like seatbelt violations or having tinted windows.
Iron clad rule now days….
Don’t call the cops unless you understand that there is a distinct possibility that someone is going to get shot.
If you are calling the cops on people because you want to “protect them”…… think a second or third time before dialing the killing squad.
Indeed, form a pose and handle your own security. Townsfolk decide whos on it.
I can tell you what they teach cops. They teach FEAR. Especially in black neighborhoods, they teach the cops to BE AFRAID. “It’s us against all of them” mentality, and “There are only the quick, and the dead”.
My sister is a state police (retired now, and not in Texas). She can’t sleep without her firearm, because – fear. Some of that fear is justified, but the fear is also ingrained into rookies from day one.
Not seeing much upside in 1st story windows in diverse and low trust America. Not like there is much of view anywhere in Ft Worth. I’ve lived there. Killed by your neighbor and the police, wow. We live in a society, alright.
See NOTHING say NOTHING!
Not the first time this has happened.
Charges are in order.
Shooting people in THEIR home through the window??? WTF kind of training is that?
The city of Fort Worth will if her relatives sue take a hit for whatever amount is awarded,even if the officer is not charged,perhaps if a few cities go broke,shoot first and ask questions latter will change .
The citizens take another one in the shorts. But then again, they elect the people who run the police forces.
You can’t expect any better from Dallas or Houston (Harris county), two of the worst and most corrupt forces in the USA. Its up there with NYC and SF.
Can’t wait to move out to Idaho where the weather is fair and the hunting is good.
Well that sux! Meanwhile in Chiraq…BREAKING: 67 year black man murders 5 neighbors in his Southside neighbourhood apartment building. Nary a peep nationally.
We’ll, plenty of nat’l Coverage, here’s AP:
https://www.apnews.com/0a8045ec6db64ce8b58d2e4b9e150681
Shhhhh, muh narrative.
It was on OAN / national news.
If you’re searching outside the house with flashlights (everyone can see you), why don’t you ring the doorbell and say who you are. What if she shot back thru that same window? He said he feared for his life. Really? She had every right to have a gun inside her house, even pointing it at the window to scare off the prowlers. Don’t you wish everyone, who’s involved in a shooting, gets to be on “administrative leave”? Different rules for different people.
Exactly! The LEO was fair game when he went through the gate and into the back yard as well as the carport. The screen door was closed which isn’t unusual this time of year.
This will be the new normal with Millennial cops. Hey, how about knocking on the door and announcing “Police” rather than sneaking around someone’s property, Does the word “Curtilage” mean anything to new cops. Total lack of training or supervision.
@Wally1:
For those of us who didn’t know:
curtilage: noun Law, The enclosed area immediately surrounding a house or dwelling.
From: The American Heritage College Dictionary, Third Edition
Dave: Thanks, I didn’t know that one.
That definition is overly brief and incomplete. Here’s what the Oxford English Dictionary has to say (emphasis mine):
Evidently they do not teach new police officers what “Curtilage” means and how it pertains to search of someone”s private property. This also pertains to the mailman, package delivery, ETC. When coming onto another persons property without permission or previous consent, a person is legally only allowed to go to the front door to make contact with the resident or owner, not sneaking around the side of the house. A good rule for police is to think of themselves as a mailman and where does a mail delivery person have authority to go, through a unlocked gate and to the front door, same rule applies to police. In this case there were no extingent circumstances that would allow a search of the property, only after attempting to make contact at the front door with no response would this officer be right to then walk around the house to look for any sign of a previous forced entry. At least this how we were trained, many years ago. They must cover this in training anymore?
@ Alan Esworthy and Wally1:
Thanks to both of you for the update and clarification. While I am fond of the American Heritage Dictionary, it can be a little terse in places. And, I don’t have ready access to the Oxford English Dictionary, the final authority.
Exactly!!! They were prowlers essentially. The screen door was closed. Lights on. They should have rang the door bell and/or knocked. I wonder how many cops understand curtilage.
POS cop.
Her welfare is no longer in doubt.
The officer saw to that.
But what of the chitlins’?
Why are the police so afraid to knock and announce? I hope the officer is imprisoned. I am a retired LEO and we were never trained to shoot thru windows. Take cover and assess. These millennial cops are afraid of any risk, it comes with the job. Sad day for Ft. Worth. We used to say no way if there would ever be a confiscation order. Now, with willy nilly shooting thru windows, I’m pretty sure the cowards will come SWAT and all.
Those cops who were illegally sneaking around like a mall ninja are the “special response team” for high crime neighborhoods. They believe they are on the fast track to SWAT or some higher position.
Amber Guyger was on a similar team.
The three cops that murdered the Tuttles were on a special drug task force. They do no knock raids in plain clothes. The black cop they are charging for the murders did the same thing this Fort Worth cop did years before he helped kill the Tuttles.
There was another cop in Texas who didn’t announce himself and opened a door to someones house. He scared the people in side. One of them got up and ran, he was armed. The cop shot both people in the house and murdered a teen. Then they killed the dog and treated everyone as if they were the criminals.
Texas police are training to kill Texans in military like operations. They train their Department of Public Safety to kill from helicopters. They train cops to be snipers and machine gunners. They attempted to use those “attack helicopters” on the Tuttles, but they were called off because the Tuttles were already murdered by the ground force.
Texas is one of the worst states… They pretend to be patriotic American Christian Republicans who respect the Bill of Rights. In reality, they are fascists who will shoot you dead if you exercise your 2nd Amendment or don’t put your hands up within 3 seconds of their orders to do so. Old school Californians will love to move there, they fit right in.
Notice how this Texas cop is trained to sneak on to the property, illegally attempt to gain access to a home, blinds the residents with a flashlight, pulls his gun, shouts “let me see yours hands” before he immediately double taps the people inside?
This is normal training in today’s cops. I witnessed it at various academies around the United States. They even train cops to shoot unarmed people if those people are larger than the police so the police don’t have to risk getting into a physical fight. And “pain compliance” is still a thing cops are being conditioned to do without thinking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6IsE8wnh1U&t=15m20s
Someone gets it.
-A Texan. (For now)
Texas police training is very consistent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MorUnsAJlxQ
To pile on, yes, like apparently everyone else in that age range they are risk-adverse in the sense that they are quick to initiate confrontation if they think they can win it before they perceive any threats to their feels. There have always been trigger happy rookie cops who do stupid shit that gets people killed, but in my day those people stopped being cops. Now they’re in charge because my generation has long since either retired or quit and the union is all on board with protecting peoples feels now.
Your input means A LOT….. And you are right….
I love what the police do for the people, but this crap has to stop….I would be the LAST person you would think would be angered about this incident…. But it REALLY P I SSES ME OFF….
Also, looks more like a negligent discharge as the police are trained to shoot controlled pairs.
I heard a couple of different stories. One, she was coming out of the kid’s room when she was shot in the hallway once the cop saw her. Two, she was attempting to look out the window when she was shot.
The police claim Texas law doesn’t allow them to release bodycam footage of the inside of someone’s home. Or something like that. I’m sure the family would want them to release all the footage. It’s not like the victim can consent.
This shooting is much like the Greenville shooting. Someone is sneaking around your house dressed in black with a flashlight at night. They see you inside your house scared and preparing yourself to fight off a home invasion. The cop then decides you are a threat and shoots to kill as trained.
What is the NRA going to say about this shooting?
A gun owning minority woman, who went to medical school, who is taking guardianship of an eight year old to raise him right, was playing video games on a weekend night with that boy when she hears/sees some men in black (dressed for her funeral as they like to joke) sneaking around her home looking into her windows and car, she tells the kid to stay there as she goes to her room to get her lawful handgun to protect herself and the child from men peeping into her windows at 2AM, is then summarily executed from outside her home because she exercised her rights by utilizing the castle doctrine and stand your ground against unlawful entry to her backyard.
Let’s not forget the police also took the effort to park away from the home so they can sneak onto the property without the residents knowing it was the cops outside. They also didn’t use any light or sirens when they drove to the home (not that it was required). From what we can tell, they didn’t announce themselves ever. They simply mall ninja’d their way onto private property ready to shoot someone and they did so as they were trained.
Texas is bad about making up laws to protect cops and hide police records and camera footage, its just the way Texas is.
You’re fkn kidding right…..i hope so
There is no way this rookie followed procedure. His lack of diligence cost this woman her life, and for that, he should face murder charges. I hope the 8 year-old nephew did not see it happen, nevertheless, what does this do to him emotionally? We can be fairly certain how it will influence his vie of the police.
Still, it must be awful to be a cop, now-a-days. It seems they are targets like never before. Everytime I have any contact with the LEOs here in Allentown, I make sure to thank them for their service.
AGAIN, I am not excusing the sloppy policework that resulted in murder, just calling attention to the difficulty of the job, and the many good cops out there.
Police work is not inherently dangerous. There are many other occupations fraught with much more danger.
Of course it’s inherently dangerous. May not be the most inherently dangerous.
Police are not special in any way. Living is inherently dangerous, yet no one thanks me for continuing to suck down oxygen everyday, and no one should feel obligated to thanks a police officer for doing the job that they signed up for.
Exactly…… I’m not thanking some idiot who walks around thinking some stupid badge makes them better than their civilian EMPLOYERS…
The current culture in LE is to think you’re better than, or morally superior to, the people you are SERVING….. GOT THAT PIGS….
YOU SERVE THE PEOPLE….. THEY ARE YOUR EMPLOYERS…. YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN THEY ARE, AND ACTUALLY IT COULD BE ARGUED THAT YOU ARE RELYING ON THE GOVERNMENT FOR YOUR EMPLOYMENT…. THE PEOPLE ACTUALLY DO REAL WORK… YOU KNOW, BUILDING THINGS WITH OUR HANDS….
LOL…. IT’S HILARIOUS HOW BACKWARDS EVERYTHING IS IN THIS GOD FORSAKEN COUNTRY!!!!!
Cops aren’t even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs.
They are the “targets” of fear and mistrust, of anger.
They are targets because they keep murdering people instead of, say, knocking on the door.
Clearly, this case is just one that illustrates how encounters with the police can be dangerous to civilians. HOWEVER, there are a lot of good cops who do good work, who are not bullies or thugs, and who respect the people they serve. Their work IS inherently dangerous, BUT, thank God, their job-related fatality rate is NOT in the top 10. Nevertheless, they’re jobs require them almost daily to deal with difficult and sometimes dangerous people; people with whom you and I do not want to deal.
So, I will say ‘thank you’ to the cops I encounter. Not saying you should, just that I will. We each have our own path.
Ah the old Chicago PD trick, BANG “freeze police!”
The lesson quickly being learned here is that one should not call the police except as a last resort. When you do call the police, keep in mind that those assigned to the third shift will be the newest rookies with the least training. Just because they show up, the danger level has not been reduced. In fact, it may be higher. Just be ready to handle your own situations. Wrap it up, and then let the police take notes.
If she’d had the gun in her possession when shot, the police would have said that. Since they haven’t, it seems clear that the gun was found elsewhere.
Are they going to tell us it was found near the body?
For all you copsuckers out there, here you go…
When an unjustified shooting by police happens to you or a loved one, let’s see your attitude about police change. POLICE ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS.
I realize that not all police officers are “bad”, but all it takes is one “bad” police officer to taint a whole department.
There are solutions:
1. Abolish public sector unions, not only for police, but for all public officials. Public service workers work for the taxpayers, not the unions. Police unions DO have a nasty habit of defending questionable, illegal police behavior.
2. Eliminate official “immunity” not only for police, but for all public officials, and require them to be privately “bonded” through an insurance company or bonding agency. You can bet that insurance companies or bonding agencies would be more diligent in weeding out the “bad apples” than our present system of payouts by municipalities.
3. Require any award for police misconduct to be paid out of their pension funds–not the municipal “general fund”. You would see things change in a hurry.
4. Establish a publicly searchable database of individuals who should NEVER allowed to become police officers, similar to the sex-offender registries that many states have established.
“Equal justice under law” must be re-established to reign in police misbehavior. If an ordinary citizen did what this police officer did, he would be in a jail cell awaiting arraignment-not free with a “paid vacation”.
Anarchyst,
I like your point 2.
Most of the police I have dealt with have been professional, courteous, and careful. I’ve encountered only a couple whom I’ve wanted to punch in the mouth. (I did not do so; did not seem a good idea at the time).
Incidents like this one have caused me to continually run imagination exercises on how to engage with the police during a traffic stop, a disruption in a public place, or in a self-defense incident. It only takes one bad decision by a police officer for someone to end up dead.
“THEY” will never allow this to happen…. NEVER…
Correct.
You might be able to get a local person elected with those ideas after a high-visibility story like this but they will get stymied by the union/democrat cartel.
The only real change might come when a city goes full-on broke bankrupt. But by then anybody with a brain has left town.
Well, I’m not a “copsucker”; but I generally support LEOs most of the time.
That being said, this stinks to high Heaven… I watched the body cam video, there was about 2 secs between that mall ninja screaming “Show me your hands”, and him shooting her thru the fucking window.
It takes about 1.5 secs for the brain to comprehend an aural or visual input; then another 1-2 secs to formulate a response and take action. 3+ seconds just to process and respond to an unexpected command such as that; maybe more if totally caught off guard.
This fuckwad wasn’t willfully out to murder this woman; but his stupid, impulsive, negligent actions caused her death. I’m no lawyer, but to me, this is no doubt “voluntary manslaughter”, or “negligent homicide”. If I was on his jury, thats what I would convict him on.
” Fort Worth Woman Shot and Killed Woman Through the Window of Her Home Following Welfare Call”
Title is wrong. Even a simple editing job would have had it right before posting.
The woman was shot by a MALE police officer. Its right in the article. Geez.
Need to start hanging the cops who do this. Since the DA wont charge, perhaps it is time for lynchings to return?
Seriously though, qualified immunity is so retarded, especially without duty to act.
Reminds of when I called police a few years ago when I saw my neighbor’s door open across the street. I knew he wasn’t home (he’s a preacher and was on retreat with some parishioners) and I saw a door open and a light on.
Now, I’m a lotta things, but I’m not gonna run into a house in the middle of the night without knowing what’s up. (yeah, I have guns, I have training, and I’m also smart enough to know my limits)
So I called the cops and not even 3 minutes later they show up. In the meantime, I had a good view of the front of the house and told the officers what I saw when they rolled up.
One went behind the house and the other walked up to the side of the front door and rang the bell. I heard him identify himself. No answer. He then waited for his partner to get back to the front of the house and they went in just like they were trained to.
A couple of minutes later they came back out. House was clear. No one got shot.
How hard is that, really?
So the POPO went to do a welfare check on someone and ended up shooting the person through their window? The POPO did not identify himself as such. The homeowner was looking out the window to see who was skulking around her yard with a flashlight in the middle of the night. The POPO saw her looking and shot her dead? WTF???? If my understanding is correct; burn this SOB down. He needs to do some hard time. Make big rocks into little rocks.
Love how the story begins from the AP, black woman white cop…
Now we can all go about our day, no thinking required on this one, they have it all figured out.
Although I hate the standard “white racism” BS narrative I am glad that this is the color of the cop and victim because it’s much more likely that the cop is gonna get fried.
If the victim and cop were both white the cop would have a much batter chance to skate.
Ah, a new crime. To “driving while black,” “walking while black,” “having a toy gun while black” and the very recent “eating ice cream and watching TV in your own home while black,” we now must add “looking out a window while black.”
And let’s not forget the ever popular crimes of “reporting a sexual assault while white,” “delivering newspapers while Asian,” and “helping a cop demonstrate the perils of his job while old.”
All are capital offenses punishable by immediate, on the spot execution by Judge Dredd.
Y’know, I can defend myself from criminals, but how can I defend myself from the gang that wears blue, is imbued with extraordinary powers, self-selects against high intelligence and is cloaked in immunity?
“Y’know, I can defend myself from criminals, but how can I defend myself from the gang that wears blue, is imbued with extraordinary powers, self-selects against high intelligence and is cloaked in immunity?”
Exactly. When government acts like the best equipped, best funded criminal gang with the judiciary on their side, how is a free individual to live and defend against it? Does it still meet the criteria of a free society or is it leaning more towards free-range slavery?
That’s it. We’re free-range slaves, the fruits of our labor taken from us “to pay for services” that are “for our own good,” without which we’d have “anarchy,” and allowed to keep just enough of what we earn to keep [most of] us from realizing it.
As it stands now, with the information that’s been made public, I see No justification for the lethal use of force by the LEO involved. As stated previously, the procedural protacol that was followed, is a Huge subject of concern. No announcement of identity will be a huge factor if this goes to Civil or Criminal trial, as it should be. Walking around a house in the dark, with flashlights, it’s doubtful the young woman could have identified a uniform (the flashlight would greatly impede her ability to see “who” was outside).
I’ll hold out for the “official” investigation, but this smells worse than last month’s fish dinner as it stands.
Only the police are qualified to have firearms:
They would use this a reason nobody should have guns. Something like “Not even the trained police can be trusted to have guns.”
I see a lot of anti-police comments on this thread but none from those that normally tow the thin blue line – where are the regular posters and commenters? Crickets? When the same thing happened in SC (https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/no-charges-for-deputy-who-shot-homeowner-from-outside-the-home/) the thread was full of all sort of comments, but what’s the difference here?
FWIW IMHO, we don’t know all the details but this is suspect from the beginning. Why in the hell is an officer shooting into a window and failing to identify as LEO? The body cam shows someone (the officer) sneaking through the property until the moment he shoots the lady. Where is the rest of the footage? That would be helpful. What is also not understood is why the 8 yo was up at 230am playing video games? Lights on, doors open in the middle of the night, yeah…a little suspect and worthy to investigate but not by a gun happy officer afraid of his own shadow where there was no indication he was in danger.
I usually don’t resort to/pounce on race being an issue so quickly but all I can see is that people are quick to sympathize with the old white guy shot by the po po but when a similar situation pops up with a black victim all we hear are crickets in the forum. Where’s all the blue line waving Murica patriots and what do ya’ll have to say to this? It would be nice to have some balance to the normal “don’t tread on me talk”.
I don’t know what the truth is on this, so I have formed no judgement. Whish we all approached all of these this way.
I don’t disagree and I wish more responses were balanced and less knee-jerk, but from what I have seen (not just here, other sites too) there is either a tendency to praise one group and vilify the other depending on alliances, allegiances, and convictions. So far I believe it is pretty fair to heavily criticize the police in this instance but I do have questions and concerns, hopefully those will be answered in the coming days. I’d like to see some of the “hardcore”/serial commenters though respond to the issue at least on the level of “yeah, this is a shitty outcome, LEO needs to be held accountable and we need more info”. That would be better than silence when the victim is black and pitchforks/torches when the victim is white.
You are correct, this was an American citizen, gun owner in her own home. She is deserving of every right and privilege asserted by every other American citizen, even those with confederate flags.
Sadly, as they have posted on this very forum, many will see this is just another ‘welfare baboon‘ off the streets and not speak up for rights.
Anyone who sees this human being, American citizen, gun owner who was murdered by an overzealous (aka chickenshit) cop for doing nothing more than looking out her window to see who was on HER private property as a “quote” Welfare Baboon? Is a lowlife, low 2 digit IQ, scum of the earth bag of shit who has pretty much forfeited their place in the hierarchy of life falling to the level of pond scum or lower.. And yes I DO have a Confederate flag hanging in my “cave” Confederacy does not mean racist..
I’m usually pretty supportive of LEOs, but this was my response to “anarchyst” earlier:
“This stinks to high Heaven… I watched the body cam video, there was about 2 secs between that mall ninja screaming “Show me your hands”, and him shooting her thru the fucking window.
It takes about 1.5 secs for the brain to comprehend an aural or visual input; then another 1-2 secs to formulate a response and take action. 3+ seconds just to process and respond to an unexpected command such as that; maybe more if totally caught off guard.
This fuckwad wasn’t willfully out to murder this woman; but his stupid, impulsive, negligent actions caused her death. I’m no lawyer, but to me, this is no doubt “voluntary manslaughter”, or “negligent homicide”. If I was on his jury, thats what I would convict him on.”
Have they been teaching officers to shoot first and investigate later? The Dallas officer who shot a man in his own apartment was almost understandable ( key here “almost”) from her perspective, but this is a pushing the envelope of negligence in performance of duty. Police are tasked with investigating crime, not punishment. I tend to side with police on officer involved shootings, but this looks like officer Quick Draw McGraw didn’t bother to investigate who or where the home owner was. At the least he should be terminated, at the best, negligent homicide charges. Let a jury decide.
He would have to be charged with murder because it was not the home owner’s fault he shot her dead.
He was not negligent, he was doing as taught. This isn’t the 2nd time this has happened in Texas. This is how they do things in Texas. It’s an old school mentality that lingers strongly.
The DA will likely not want to charge one of their brothers. They will send it to a grand jury hoping the jury is stupid enough to not take the government to court.
Amber Guyger getting only a minimum of 5 years in prison for murder is not justice. Such a light sentence doesn’t intimidate other cops to do the right thing and not murder citizens. Five years for murder is nothing. There are many people in Texas prison serving decades for armed robbery and fleeing. Others are serving a life sentenced for attacking a government worker.
Shit, there are people doing decades in prison in Tx for a roach and a couple of seeds in their ashtray…
In a “Christian” state like Texas apparently murder is not that big of a deal as long as it’s not an unborn baby or a government worker. Smoking or selling an herb is much worse.
Hearing the inmates say why they are in prison and how long they are to be there is shocking. It’s as if Texas has a minimum mandatory life sentence…
@Chief Censor, negligent homicide is murder. I live in Texas, and know quite a few LEO, not one would behave like this guy. There have been may “homeowner shot by police thru window” incidents not just Texas. Yes, Texas is a “law and order” state, and criminal aren’t coddled, they are treated like criminals. Bad cops and bad training persist everywhere, but big cities have more LEO, more opportunity for a poor quality officer to escape detection.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/08/07/greenville-deputy-cleared-after-shooting-homeowner-through-front-window/1949010001/
Not knowing how this is going to play out, so I am thinking of recent cop-perpetrated shootings. I’d like to not only see the locality/dept get held accountable but criminal and civil actions needs to be taken against the individual officers themselves, esp. when they are given the option to retire as a crooked cop than be fired as a criminal.
Arc up above is little vehement but that cop DID shot WAY too soon!!!!! They were stupid for not making a more careful search and announcing themselves since there was a frigging CAR parked in the driveway!!!
Cops — What are they good for? Absolutely nothing.
What is it going to take to convince some people that we’re in a war with the paramilitarized police? Why won’t those people realize that THIS is why we have a 2nd Amendment?
Some American citizens have realized there is a problem and they’re trying to do something about it.
You may have heard of them, their group is known as Black Lives Matter.
What is it going to take? I think you just convinced everyone.
The incompetence of these killings is intolerable. At the very least the officer who did the killing should be charged with manslaughter.
What the hell did the cops expect to find? There’s a home with cars and the lights inside. What ever happened to knocking on the front door? It was supposed to be a welfare check not hunting for an armed fugitive.
There should be red and blue lights from the patrol cars bouncing off the walls. A clear signal that the police are outside. There should be announcements on the loudspeakers, “POLICE!” This sort of thing has happened in my neighborhood. In that case they were looking for an armed fugitive after midnight. Cop cars with red and blues running, spotlights, radio traffic over loudspeakers and warnings to residents as they drove around with officers working alleyways on foot . I turned on all exterior lights, stayed well clear of windows with one of my shotguns beside me.
So an eight year old witnessed his aunt gunned down in front of him by the very police sworn to protect them. Horrible end for that young woman and a lesson that young boy will carry for the rest of his life.
A well founded, deeply seared into his memory fear of the police.
Charging him with manslaughter means the innocent woman was partly to blame for her murder. They didn’t charge Amber Guyger with manslaughter because Botham was not to blame for minding his business in his home in the early hours.
The kid will remember this day forever. He is old enough for this to haunt him. Just trying to play some video games with aunty on a Friday night. Once she was shot dead they raided the home with a bunch of cops. He had to see her body as they were taking him out of the house.
Unfortunately, white people on the internet like to make fun of black people who get shot by the police by saying “I bet they were going to doctor school!” She did in fact minor in pre-med.
No. Manslaughter just means it was unintentional.
Pointing a large caliber semi automatic handgun at another human being and pulling the trigger while aiming for center of mass is an intentional act.
Just like in the Tamir Rice incident, the LEO shouts freeze and then fires within a fraction of a second, not offering any sort of meaningful opportunity for the individual to comply.
From an old Vietnam vets perspective, what happened here is what commonly happened in fire fights over there. It shouldn’t happen here. This ain’t VN. But it might become that.
Negligent discharge. Police are trained to fire in pairs or until a threat is ended. Just popping off one round really stands out because that is not how they are trained and that is not how they are taught to practice.
Negligent discharge by a nervous young man who never even announced that he was the police. To me it looks fairly clear that he did not intend to fire his weapon, and THAT is why the video is instantly cut off right after he fires: To cover the “oh shit!” or similar words and actions that would further illustrate that he accidentally fired without meaning to.
Oops.
As a side note, this sort of illustrates why ultra light trigger pull competition guns are not ideal for self-defense use. During the heart pounding adrenaline fueled excitement of a life or death situation, a 3 lb trigger is going to be way too light without exceptionally good – to the point of outstanding – self-control. Hell, a more typical 6-ish lb trigger can seem to almost pull itself during that fear induced adrenaline rush where we all experience a certain amount of fine motor control difficulty.
As most of you know, in NYC the police are mandated to a silly hard 12 lb trigger pull for exactly this reason. You have to really mean it to pull a 12 lb trigger, whereas a normal lighter trigger can seem to just go off without you even meaning it to. Where you normally “take up the slack” on the trigger, it doesn’t take much at all to pull it just a little too far, especially when you are suddenly shocked or surprised by something and you get that familiar heart pounding adrenaline rush that some of you folks just kind of get addicted to (which is another story but you know who you are).
That young LEO clearly did not _intend_ to fire that weapon. That is what I see. Watch the video again and see if you agree.
He was not there for a life or death situation. He was there on a non emergency call to check on an old lady, a young woman and a child. Once he saw her he drew his gun as he started yelling and shot her dead instantly. He did what he was taught and what he wanted.
You only put your finger on the trigger when you are ready to shoot. There is no reason for you to put your finger on the trigger if you do not intend to kill especially when using a gun without a manual safety. When your finger is on the trigger you can flinch off a round when scared. People are taught to pull their gun with their finger along the frame of the gun and keep it there until you want to shoot. This is why people do not allow Serpa holsters, as those holster can cause a stressed person to pull the trigger on the draw.
Trigger pull is irrelevant to one’s intent because we do not place our finger on the trigger of a semi auto until we are ready to destroy. We don’t point guns at people unless they have a weapon in their hands ready to go. Low ready exists for a reason. We simply stay one step ahead and apply proper firearm safety to prevent negligence.
If you ignore firearms safety and other training you made that personal decision. You are supposed to be responsible for your actions as an adult. It wasn’t an accident, you can’t say “my bad.” Just like it wasn’t an accident when Amber Guyger went into someone’s apartment and murdered him. You can’t use “whoops” as a defense.
The cut off portion will reappear in court with the sound conveniently garbled at every spot that makes the officer look bad.
Editing and intentionally garbling or changing the focus to blur the photo all qualified as tampering with the evidence. But of course, no one at the PD will be charged.
They highly edited a video of cops beating an entire black family.
Straight up murder, this is why half the nation doesnt care when a thug kills a cop. That officer deserves 20 years no parole.
Millennials with a badge and a gun, who’s idea was that?
I think an overall trend is forming in law enforcement and governance. For decades I’ve noticed that individual liberty takes a backseat more and more to interests of government. Whole lines of travelers searched at gunpoint to look for a bank robber. Blocks “locked down” and house-to-house searches carried out to search for bombers. A shooting in an area, suspect is known to law enforcement as deceased, no credible indications that there is a second shooter, yet, everyone in the place must have their hands up and be searched. IMHO, this is an extension of contempt of cop, contempt of government, contempt of “authority.” Children are now trained at a young age to accept this behavior from government (lock-downs); to comply with it and even defend it. The notion of reasonable articulable suspicion, probable cause, and justifying a criminal complaint is all but out the window.
We say jump and you had better jump; or else! IMHO, that’s what we’ve come to. Lock-downs, everyone with hands up and searched, everybody in the house in cuffs and on the ground… This looks like tossing prison cells. Government is the supreme sovereign and we are all just subjects of the crown.
It didn’t matter that this woman was in her own home, minding her own business. It didn’t matter that agents of government were skulking around her property in the wee hours. It didn’t matter that agents of government entered a gated area of her property without legitimate cause to do so. This woman’s life didn’t matter. All that mattered was that government assets made it home safe at night and government authority, even to the point of taking an innocent life, was unbridled.
The officer(s) might get punished in this case. In the grand scheme, it doesn’t matter much as this tyrannical trend in governance will continue. Once our generations, the ones that knew this behavior was wrong, dies off; nothing will stop the State. It will be embraced as necessary and righteous.
I agree. I’ve been watching it happen in tiny, barely noticeable, steps for my entire adult life – about the last 60 years.
You and me both, my friend. I noticed the trend as a young child and have been speaking out against it ever since.
Stay safe and carry on.
Some American citizens have realized there is a problem and they’re trying to do something about it.
You may have heard of them, their group is known as Black Lives Matter.
Only if you’re black. Their name says it all. Similar things to this have happened to people of other races, with nary a peep out of BLM.
https://oathkeepers.org/
Black Lives Matter joined some of OUR protests many years ago when they were just gaining notoriety. I spent more than 24 hours with them on one protest alone. THEY ARE COMMUNIST ASTRO-TURF THROUGH AND THROUGH. I saw it with my own eyes. It’s a leftist prop. I am 100% certain about it. There is ZERO doubt.
And the border patrol being allowed to Stop and question ANYONE within 100 miles of the border… …where 2\3rds of the population Lives.
I have to think this problem is more due to a lack of training than of race. Scared, short-time cops are going to make mistakes. I might be smart to have them ride for a year or two with a veteran police officer so they can see how to chill.
If this has been reported correctly, this whole thing is a tragedy and the cop should be removed from his job at a minimum. Honestly I cannot imagine a scenario where it made sense for than cop to shoot. Then again maybe I had to be there. But, the blame for this falls at the feet of the department and where ever this guy got is training from.
Really. She died because of a welfare check. If you are a cop and afraid of your shadow, please, dont come checking on me. Just call.
IMO, the minimum is manslaughter conviction. There is no justification for what he did. If he intended to shoot, the the charge should be murder. If it was truly an accidental discharge, then it should be manslaughter. It should be multiple years in prison either way. I don’t think police training or procedures will improve unless police are put in prison. That is all that will get the attention of the police unions and leaders.
MechAg
We tend to assume that police are trained for months before being on patrol. Usually true in big cities.
One of the sub-contactors we used to use told stories of being a deputy sheriff in Texas. He was on patrol by himself the day he was hired. The only thing he was taught then was how to use the radar and how to fill out a speeding ticket. This was about 25 years ago so hopefully things are much better.
A man I went to High School with became an officer after a 6 week or 2 month police school in College Station. I have no doubt you are right.
I think this video should be showed to every police officer in the country as an example of what not to do. Others have posted links that this is not the first time such a thing has happened. If the officer is punished criminally, as he should be, it will underscore how serious this is and may have the effect of preventing a future occurrence.
At first glance, this is a very bad shoot.
Yeah, I’m with Victoria. The entry door was open. How about knocking? I know cops are trained to stop, look and listen before making contact, but you can’t be shooting homeowners through their windows when they react to suspicious behavior outside.
A huge judgement or settlement won’t bring this woman back, nor will it restore the loss in trust the public has for cops for this one officer’s momentary lapse in judgement.
Actually momentary lapse in judgment has become a trend.
I see a lot of gun owners who like to hang a gun on their wall in their room or have a gun next to them. Imagine one of them is hanging out reading TTAG in their room when a cop comes peeking into their bedroom window at 2 AM and shouts “Don’t move! Show me your hands!” then the TTAG reader turns toward the cop out of shock… *Boom boom* Gets double tapped. R.I.P
Gun owners have to cover their windows or hide their guns to make sure cops don’t use that as an excuse to murder them. I just moved my gun out of sight from the windows.
This is not the first story I heard of Texas cops shooting people through the window because they thought the homeowner was a threat because of a gun or the possibility of them getting one.
Didn’t a cop somewhere just get let off scott free after shooting a homeowner through his doorside window?
Here it is
https://wrex.com/category/2019/10/02/officer-cleared-in-shooting-of-sc-homeowner-through-window/
Yup. Another innocent… …Another coward.
Yeah…
Call me crazy, I’ll just have to wait to see what the investigation brings out. It worked for the Guyger case.
A lot of police-bashing on this thread. As I said, above, the rookie in this case should be prosecuted for murder. HOWEVER…
There are over 750k police officers in this country. Some percentage of them are likely poorly trained, some percentage,may be corrupt, some percentage just trying to ride it out until retirement.
But for those who are patriots, who work hard to make sure the have the proper training, who practice their skills, who support the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, who run toward the danger, who take the time to know the people in the neighborhoods they patrol, who volunteer in their communities, who are proud of their profession and execute it professionally, and who truely protect and serve, I unabashedly, loudly, and proudly, say “Thank you!!”
…but who not only tolerate but also shield fellow law enforcers who are corrupt and/or violent, I unabashedly, loudly, and proudly, say your behavior is inexcusable and you are a major part of the problem.
Alan,
So are you saying that all 750k police officers in this country are corrupt, involved in cover-ups?
BTW, I am all for any police officer who breaks the law, being prosecuted for doing so. I would also like to see stronger mechanisms to ensure police internal investigation return fair and transparent results.
No, I’m not saying all are. I’m saying that any law enforcer who tolerates or shields corrupt or violent fellow law enforcers that they work with are not good guys, regardless of whatever other positive character traits they exhibit. I regret to say that this seems to include a substantial number (see: the Thin Blue Line), but not all.
“I’m shaken. I’m mad. I’m upset. And I feel it’s partly my fault,” Smith said. “If I had never dialed the police department, she’d still be alive.”
Damn. Just damn.
Yeah.. That’s a bummer. The neighbor thought he was doing the right thing.
One account said that she and her nephew were playing video games. And the officer shoots without completing his order to drop the gun. The optics aren’t real good here.
Charlie
There is no need to insult the majority of the police by calling them pigs. Totally uncalled for.
This particular cop does need to answer for his actions. If an ordinary citizen were to fire at an unknown intruder THROUGH their window, they would be going to prison for a very long time. Police need to be held accountable to the same standard of justice that citizens are subject to at the very least. (The idea of a higher standard for cops due to the great power granted to them by their profession was apparently negotiated away in their labor contracts. Something about how their jobs are stressful or something like that).
Do you want to bet that this cop is found to have followed all department policies and procedures and gets no reprisal? This happens more and more often.
You’re probably correct, except it happens much Less often because of body and cell phone cameras. All this shit happened much more frequently in the past but the victim always had a gun or knife planted on them and the only thing we heard was that the cop was a hero. Now there’s a Lot more accountability. If a body camera is not turned during routine encounters the cop should be fired. If it’s not turned on during situations Like this, it should be assumed the cop is Lying and should be fired, arrested and prosecuted.
I wonder how the police department would have reacted if it was the cop who had his head blown off by the woman after he had peeked into her home late at night. Would they have given her the same benefit of doubt?
Not bashing police as individual fellow citizens but really, we don’t need a police force.Why if I am armed and my neighbor is armed do I need the police? Maybe a detective squad to figure out after the fact who committed what, but police? Sorry, absolutely zero need. Been living all over the country and the only reason I’ve “needed”the police is because they would arrest or shoot me me if I would dare to carry a gun in a high crime area. Which would also happen to be areas illegal to carry for protection, and thus lethally enforced by the police. Thus it’s all a contrived “need.”Thanks but no thanks for your service. Firefighters. Check. Paramedics. Check. Special forces. Check. My neighborhood barista? Sure, they need to pay for college. Police? Waste of taxpayer money. I can take care of myself and protect my neighbors too thank you very much. That’s what the second amendment reminds us of, if it weren’t so completely gutted as to be pretty much meaningless in most cities. If there were no police we would see. a sudden spike in dead, formerly violent, criminals across the country followed by a massive drop in violent crime in every major city as the survivors quickly caught on. Bah. Hate on me all you want, but you know it’s the truth that I speak.
Another case of lousy police training coupled with a cop God complex that allows them to kill people with no fear of reprisal. All they have to say is “I thought she was armed and constituted a threat.”
As the neighbor said, it makes not want to call the police. This isn’t the first time something like this has happened recently.
““I’m shaken. I’m mad. I’m upset. And I feel it’s partly my fault,” Smith said. “If I had never dialed the police department, she’d still be alive…”
I mean, yeah. All you had to do was call her or, failing that, walk up to the door and call in “Hey, your door’s open, are you there?”
Not wanting to call the police is fine- but then don’t. Go do it yourself (and hope that she isn’t as trigger happy as the responding officer when she sees someone outside her house at night).
“When they entered the house after the shooting, police reportedly found a handgun.”
Mr. Newspaper Writer Man…what in the FUCK does this have to do with anything? Anything at all. Just gotta drop that little tid-bit suggesting the woman was some sort of ‘threat’ to an officer who didn’t mention seeing any sign of a weapon before shooting unannounced? Not that they had any justification to shoot even in that case (reference the white guy killed in a similar incident recently, who will no doubt get far less coverage & outrage than this latest insult)
This is the reason my gates coming onto my property are locked at night and blinds are shut and the alarm is on. this cop from everything in both cases was wrong for one thing they are not supposed to search a gated yard without a search warrant unless they actually see a law being broke and that is only front yard
If you get in trouble the last people you ever want to call is “the cops”. Years ago we had another name for them and it began with the letter “P”. My how little things have changed in all these years. Its actually gotten a lot worse. Today if you called them names they would just shoot you down.
At least Guyger had a somewhat more credible excuse although the criminal justice system determined it was not credible enough to keep her from a murder conviction. This officer, based on all that has been released has not an inkling of credibility. Even if the victim had been holding the firearm, which it appears she was not, showing up unannounced flashing lights into windows the police man should consider himself lucky to be alive and should spend the rest in life in remorse reliving that night in perpetuity. An officer uninvited and unannounced on private property investigating no crime (someone correct me if I am wrong, but I could not find anywhere that leaving ones door unlocked at home is a crime, not wise, but not a crime, should legally be no better off than one who does not have a right to be there. An unannounced uninvited armed person using force to enter the domicile of a second person should in all legal environments grant that second person all of the presumptions of self defense law. Until then expect more of these cases.
From all I have seen in these videos so far, it appears irrelevant that the victim possessed a firearm, other than the media’s attempt to vilify her.
The police are the ones who created that narrative to protect their department. Then media simply reported what they were told. The media is race baiting though; they’re trying to get black people to riot.
Here is CNN attempting to get the record straight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksCDwiSLsIg&t=3m45s
This is what happens when you dont shootzen the bad guys for the cops to drag off. They resort to shootzing their own food and they just sbout shootzen anything, mostly its just dogs, sometimes people.
There are only two things that will fix this in the long run, more cops being shot dead when acting as prowlers or doing no knock raids, and more cops being prosecuted, which doesn’t happen nearly often enough. Immunity for public employees and public employee unions need to go.
No; what needs to happen is lawsuits being filed and elevated to SCOTUS in an attempt to overturn “Graham v. Connor” and put a higher standard on the po-po in “use of force” situations. That’s the civil path to follow. Declaring “open season” on cops; will only make things worse; for all of us. They will bbe even more jumpy, on edge, and apt to shoot first upon ANY initial contact with the public…
Police today are likely to shot first then ask question later.
Don’t Talk to Cops, Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
Best to avoid contact with police on your property when they don’t have a warrant. In recent years the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that:
1) Police have no obligation to protect citizens beyond that which the police themselves decide.
2) Police are not required to have an understanding of the laws they’re tasked with enforcing.
3) Police can break the law to enforce the law.
4) If police lie when interviewed about what happened, it cannot be used as evidence against them in criminal proceedings.
That’s all correct, apparently now police officers and Donald Trump are all above the law.
Fascinating.
The “Associated Press” throws down the Race Card in the first Line. Race baiting at its finest!
Same type story from “AP” cop shoots homeowner through window: no White cop & White victim Race information, Why? Because they can’t stir racial hatred on this one so Race is not important and not reported in this story! This proves AP News Stories push a Race Baiting Policy.
I think both situations are LEs fault. The cop in the South Carolina homeowner shooting Lied in his Report, his Agency Lied to the Public AFTER KNOWING the facts provided in the Cop Cam and Officer was not charged, nor diciplined, back on full duty!
https://www.apnews.com/3bc31051880a433c8713e7b6812a70a0
Sounds like a precursor to how the red flag laws are going to go down… But, I guess it works if the object is to disarm or remove political opponents…
How am I not surprised?
And the hits just keep coming!
“A former Georgia police officer was found not guilty of murder Monday more than four years after he killed a naked, unarmed black man who was mentally ill.
A jury in DeKalb County found Robert “Chip” Olsen guilty of aggravated assault, making a false statement, and two counts of violation of oath, but acquitted him on two felony murder charges.
Olsen was charged with killing Anthony Hill, a 26-year-old Afghanistan war veteran, in March 2015. Prior to the shooting, someone in his neighborhood called police to report a man “acting deranged, knocking on doors, and crawling around on the ground naked,” then-DeKalb County Police Chief Cedric Alexander said after the shooting.
Olsen was dispatched and “when (Hill) saw the officer, he charged, running at the officer. The officer called him to stop while stepping backwards, drew his weapon and fired two shots,” Alexander said.”
Where there no less-than-lethal options? No pepper spray, no Taser, no training on how to subdue an unarmed opponents?
@Miner49er I disagree, have you ever encountered someone high on PCP? No recognition of pain, abnormal strength, unwilling to follow commands, and they just want to bite and tear at you…. Can be quite dangerous to even a well condition LEO. I’m 65, the reason I carry a gun is I can’t defend myself against someone like that, most cops would probably be in the loosing side of a wrestling encounter, have their guns taken away by the perp, and then what?
If you don’t know how to fight you shouldn’t have a badge.
I’d be interested to know how they (the officers) approached the house. If they approached it as a “burglary in-progress” call, that seems pretty inappropriate, since the original call for service came through the non-emergency line.
I’ve lived in and around Ft. Worth my whole life. Back when Thomas Windham was police chief, stuff like this didn’t happen. I guess that caliber of leadership has died-off for the most part.
I think this has a lot to do with the caliber of police recruits available currently, same with the Amber Guyger deal. Most of them are just flat unqualified for the job, but that’s all who are applying. Some cities if DFW (Arlington & Plano) require a Bachelor’s degree to apply; I’m sure that results in higher-quality recruits, but that decreases the size of the candidate pool even more.
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