The whole point of the MP5 is to have a small, easily concealable, maneuverable weapon. And while H&K’s design is pretty good, it can be so much better. Lighter magazines that don’t jam. Controls like the common AR-15, not a completely new platform that soldiers need to familiarize themselves with and train for. Mission configurable in the field. Easy to disassemble. And, most important, actually making the damn things accurate. If memory serves, the acceptance test for an MP5SD was a mean radius of 8 inches at 100 yards for the shot pattern, which is nowhere near the accuracy you’d want. The MPX fixes all of these things, and looks awesome doing it. We’ll have a review when they finally hit the civilian shelves, but for now enjoy the full auto goodness.
That looks fun. I was surprised to see the magazine move like it did.
I noticed that right away. It kind of cheapens the gun a bit, also the noise of the mag accidentally banging against the well may give away your presence in a sticky situation. Probably would be an easy fix, if you thought it was warranted.
Definitely not something I would try to “fix.” If the magazine moves, then it is because it is getting out of the bolt’s way. Try to fix it in place and you are just asking for broken feed lips.
And the noise of the gun’s action working would alert people to your presence long before those lovetaps that the mag is giving to the magwell.
I think the idea is that the mag may move around while running. I doubt anyone is too worried about a little extra noise while shooting.
With that said I do agree that it probably does not harm function in the short term but in the long term what is the wear going to be on the mag lock mechanism and mag?
Ben: What I meant by a “sticky situation” was that the user was trying to keep himself and the gun from making any noise at all, which means he would not be moving anything.
:waggler:
That looks ridiculously more controllable on full auto than an M4A1. Do want.
@PapaChop, given that one fires the lower end of acceptable defensive pistol cartridges and one fires a rifle cartridge, I would hope so.
I’m not willing to declare submachine guns obsolete, but they’re certainly more niche in utility these days. Technology has made made the recoil of intermediate cartridges much more manageable. I’ll take a suppressed intermediate cartridge (5.56mm, 5.45mm, 300BLK) X95 Micro Tavor over a pistol-caliber MPX for CQB any day of the week. There are still some interesting developments in submachine guns, and I’d say that the Kriss Vector may be a valid CQB-only defensive option with the interesting way it handles recoil. I wish it came in 9mm for even more controllable bursts. However, I haven’t yet seen any reason to utilize the MPX. A more accurate mag dump? For practicality the focus should be on a rapid burst with immediate stopping power.
In the Fauklins War Brit soldiers had to take rifles off of the dead and captured Argentinian soldiers. Most of the Brits were deployed with 9mm sub-machinegun’s which could reach out in the open terrain far enough to do more than make noise.
@DBM, interesting. Where did you read/hear that?
During the war and some military stuff years later. 3/4 of all Argentinian casualties were from the brits sinking that cruiser while most Brit casualties were from ground warfare. My memories on specifics aren’t good anymore on it but I do remember one unit deployed had mostly been used for ceremonial duties for decades and all of the soldiers were grossly out of shape. The Argentinians did quite well from a damage inflicted to enemy forces point of view. If they had better leadership at the tactical level they would have defeated Britain. The employed unusual (and briefly popular) defensive stratagies like “reverse defilade” defense tactics where defensive positions were forward of the crest of a hill/ridge line and others and fall back positions were over the crest. Made calling in effective mortar and artillery fire impossible and left attacking forces fully exposed when they crested the hill. As a side note because the british gov’t had gutted the military to pay for social welfare programs the bit military was critically short on food, ammo, fuel and other wartime essentials.
@DBM, that was the first time I’d heard that about Brits running and gunning with only 9mm. I’m thinking…that perhaps that is a stretch based on one unit’s (that ceremonial unit?) experience??? Certainly, some of their “O”s might have been so armed. But there are plenty of references and images out there of Brits “yomping” with their LIs (FAL), as well as there are many images of the Argentinians fighting with their Argentinian FALs. And visually, there are enough differences between the two if you know what you are looking at. Anyway, interesting bits of info there from you. It causes me to want to return to the books and refresh up on that bit of war.
Its hard to look up old info from pre internet. A lot of it has never been uploaded. The Brits loaded up on 9mm sub machineguns back then (9mm is cheaper than 7.62 and 5.56) but did have 7.62 and some M-16 knock offs (no carrying handle). The brit soldiers were thrown into battle ill equipped and supplied.
I always encourage people to read. You will see we and other armies fuck up the same way every time and usually for the same reasons.
Why exactly are you shooting the M4 on full auto for anything other than shits and giggles.
Trench clearing. Or so we were told.
Of course, we only had semi or full-auto. Canada never did the burst thing.
Waste of ammo, one of the nice things that competitive shooting has shown, is how fast you can accurately fire a AR.
Against vehicles full of “enemies.” Say, if you’re some Narco, and a cruiser with 5 cops come for you…. Technically, if you are engaging many, each as good and fast shots as you are, AND they are clumped together with little dead space between them, lots of rounds very fast is good.
I also once saw a pretty impressive demonstration of an MP5 vs a charging paper bear. Poor bear.
Personally I’d rather not be in the position to have a charging bear and if I were I’d want something bigger than a weapon spitting out 9mm rounds. Better than .22’s but still pissing in the wind.
current M-4s are useless on full auto and it gives you a false sense of security. You cant hold on target for more than 2-3 rounds so everything else is wasted.
@DBM, I won’t argue about the false sense of security aspect of full auto. But, I’ve taught many to go full auto and on target. It can be done. It depends of course on the student’s ability and the distance. At some point, point on full auto becomes suppressive fire. But from 25m and in, easy money.
The problem for the average soldier/person is they don’t have the discipline to use full auto fire effectively and end up spraying and praying they hit something. I used to have soldiers that served in Vietnam and some told me they would burn a barrel out every night their firebase was attacked. They’d spend a day filling a 55 gallon drum with loaded mags and then when the base was attacked they’d go rock and roll pointing and spraying until they ran out of ammo.
@DBM, no doubt, what you described is a waste of ammo and barrels. Controlled round bursts…
I am the exact opposite of an MP5 expert. Was there a suppressor on there?
@uncommon_sense, generally only on the MP5SD model. That one came with an integral suppressor. The rest could mount a suppressor in the usual screw on or QD way.
If you’re talking about this MPX, it looks like their permanent muzzle break option though it’s tough to tell with the sound on youtube.
Brake. Brake. Oh god the internet is coming….
@Nick, where did you get that the acceptance test for an MP-5SD was 8″ at 100 yards? Whose acceptance was that? And what is the spread for this new SIG?
Considering that the MP5 is very old technology, it was way ahead of its time. Polymer mags didn’t exist when it was originally produced. The later model MP5/10mm did in fact have lighter, polymer mags however. The baseplate on those should have been reversed, but I digress.
One of the great things about the MP5 series was that in fact, they were very accurate given the fact it was a subgun. It was significantly more accurate than its rival of the time, the Uzi. It was an extremely easy weapon to train on, to teach with. It made mediocre pistol shooters, look like Masters of the subgun, overnight.
While I wish SIG well in this endeavor and I’m definitely glad to see it has a more ergonomic safety/selector than the MP5s, I wouldn’t be so quick to put down the MP5. Especially if you haven’t put in some years working it.
Perhaps, a better comparison would be between this new SIG and HKs UMP – which to me was a completely unimpressive weapon system. Sure, the MP5 comes with a bit more weight, but I’d gladly take it over the UMP everytime and twice on Sundays.
Man speaks the truth. First time I ever shot an MP5 was at 100yd, offhand, all shots hit within 6″ or so. I was very impressed. I wasn’t even really trying, and I didn’t expect to be on target at 100yd.
My eyebrow raised a bit when I read your post. You say you fired the weapon at 100 yards, does that mean you walked out 100 yards past the end of the bench and let go at a target right next to you?
Not sure what you mean, but many 9mm carbines are perfectly capable of getting some decent offhand groups at 100yds. The MP5 makes it fairly easy.
He also forgot to mention that pistol cartridges are less accurate due to low BC. I suspect that the bullets go transonic at that range, further reducing accuracy.
Me personally? I like the MP5, most common SMG in my area (north and south Europe). I have always felt conflicted in regards to SMGs. On one hand they are quieter, cheaper and use same ammo as your pistol on the other hand they are pretty inefficent compared to an AK with a folding stock and 10 inch barrel. I can get the latter much easier than the former in some areas.
I want one so bad it hurts.
Nick your letting your SIG bias attack again. There many situation where you DONT want a full powered rifle cartridge sub sonic or not. In Maritime security in some vault security you want pistol rounds that wont ricochet back at you. That’s why we wont see the MP-5 and M-3 completely go away for must personnel yes but for special missions NO.
@Lance, while Nick might need to work on his fighting stance a bit, (humor guys), I don’t see where he showed any bias re rifle vs. pistol caliber. Did I miss something?
Even though the MPX actually fires pistol rounds, not rifle rounds.
There’s also less over-penetration from short-barreled AR-15s than with pistol-caliber SMGs too due to the higher projectile weight of the latter.
He wasn’t talking about over-penetration but about richochets.
So when will this be given away in a caption contest?
Dreamer!
Did I miss something or do I just have to assume the caliber? Real sweet weapon.
Agree with el mac about the mp5. Uzi fired from an open bolt and tended to jump around a little more than an mp5. They were both great in their time. I wouldn’t pass on either now if it was legal to own one.
But if it was 1 only I’d take the mp5.
Seems like we could bump the tax stamp to 2 grand for pistol caliber and 5 grand for rifle caliber, … new manufacture only of course. Be a great way for the feds to raise revenue.
That’s the idea! Just jack up the price until only drug lords can afford them!
I want one just because I get something to play with while I wait for the ATF to approve the suppressor form. Looks like an overall great package as far as dimensions go. Would probably be more likely to purchase a .45acp model (since we don’t get full-auto fun anyways).
I don’t want one because the suppressor only works on that one weapon (since it’s obviously integrated into the barrel), and the base rifle is supposedly pretty expensive ($1800+ I believe) even though the suppressor “cover” is only $200 or less (if I recall correctly).
Nevermind… hadn’t heard that they decided against the muzzle brake on the civilian semi-auto version. Seems pointless now unless they can get approval for the muzzle-brake attached version.
Goddamn I want full auto…got addicted to it in the Army and these teaser vids are painful to watch 🙂
One word to describe this gun, NIIIIIIIIICCCCCCCCEEEEEEE!
I’m just guessing H&K thinks the AR should have their controls and a Military issue AR has to shoot a “8 group at 100 meters to pass as a issue rifle out of their armory. That’s what the guys in the sandlot get. Sometimes a good one and sometimes a bad one. I would hate to know what a pistol caliber carbine is acceptable for accuracy for the US Military.
So, SIG is making a Hk MP5 for the retro gun crowd. I have no doubt it will sell like hotcakes.
P7 anyone?
Not every single firearm not specifically optimized for whatever happens to be the US military’s latest engagements, are “retro.”
I do wish humanity would be sufficiently evolved by now, that bans on civilian ownership of the darned thing could be written off as “retro”, but alas….
Are you a mute? I’ve never seen you speak a word.
Look at that magazine wiggle during full auto. Hypnotic.
Regardless, love the video. I hope you guys took some videos of the other SIG guns too!
There was about 8 secs left and was wondering if he was going to get that last mag dump in. He did!
I feel weird asking about the jacket / smock, but what jacket is that, Nick?
That appears to be an effective way of putting holes in things.
I’m really impressed how flat the recoil is on that thing. Excellent.
No kidding! Kid can shoot! Or gun is good. Or both.
It would be cool to see a split frame, with the shooter to the left, and the target to the right, to see how good he really is….
I’d love to have that for home defense. So jelly right now.
Hey, isn’t that a shoulder thingy that goes up?
Looks like a great gun, I may even want this more than an MP5 platform. Although my love for MP5 originated with Die Hard, so that’d be difficult to top.
Hope they end up coming out with a .45 ACP variant at some point.
I hate you, Nick Leghorn. You and all of your super-awesome full-autoness.
Comments are closed.