I’m not sure what “Hispanic” means. An Argentinian wouldn’t place themselves in the same ethnic group as a Mexican, would they? Come to think of it, why does the ATF form 4473 now divide ethnicity into Hispanic or Latino, or Non-Hispanic or Non-Latino? Excuse this African-American’s ignorance, but what’s the difference between those ethnicities? According to the Violence Policy Center gun control group, a Hispanic is “a person of any race having origins in Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Central or South America, or other Spanish cultures.” That’s the definition from their new study . . .
Hispanic Victims of Lethal Firearms Violence in the United States. Interestingly, the email doesn’t say anything about gun control. Or gang violence. Or whether or not the perpetrators or victims are/were American citizens. I guess Josh reckons victimhood = pro-gun control and that’s it. Here are the bullet points from the email blast trumpeting the new report:
— In 2010, the most recent year for which we have data, the homicide victimization rate for Hispanics was 5.73 per 100,000. The murder rate for whites was 2.52 per 100,000. [ED: In 2010, Mexico’s reported murder rate was 23 per 100k.]
— More than two-thirds of Hispanic murder victims were killed with guns, and the vast majority of murders with guns involved a handgun.
— A large percentage of Hispanic murder victims are young. In fact, homicide is the second-leading cause of death for Hispanics ages 15 to 24. [ED: The VPC study reports “for Hispanic homicides that were gang-related, 61 percent were age 24 and younger.”]
— Hispanics are more likely to be killed by a stranger than the national average.
— Overall, more than 38,000 Hispanics were killed by guns between 1999 and 2010. During this period, 26,349 Hispanics died in gun homicides, 10,314 died in gun suicides, and 747 died in unintentional shootings.
— Because of gaps in the data, we still don’t have all the important facts we need on Hispanic victims of gun violence. Government agencies often report information on race but not ethnic origin. As a result, the total number of victims is almost certainly higher than the reported numbers suggest. Our report includes several recommendations for how public agencies can improve the way they collect data.
Knowing the facts is an essential first step to ending this epidemic in the Hispanic community. We hope this study will be useful to the many community leaders and other public officials who are hard at work in their efforts to save lives.
Methinks the Sugarmann express has got it exactly backwards. The study makes an excellent case for Hispanics to arm themselves against criminal predation, whether from within or without their community.
Speaking of which, the study highlights the role of gang violence in firearms-related homicides within the Hispanic communities. (Like they didn’t know that already.) The key question: will the Hispanic community see gun control as an effective way to stop gang violence? Not likely.
Anyway, the race is on (so to speak). Let’s hope the NRA also has its sights set on the same target as the VPC. The future of gun rights may depend on it.
You’re African-American??? Really? Since when? NO…the European Argentines generally hate any “Hispanic” with a drop of native blood. Epic fail on the definition.
FYI My mother is South African.
Is dit waar? Sou nooit soë geraai het nie.
Weeeeeellll, …. if the paleo-anthropologists are to be believed — we’re ALL from Africa from some date in the last 100 millennia or so … ‘ceptin’ mebbe them Neanderthal relicts kicking around in the genome … but even them are African if you look just a wee bit further back.
Because … total racial justice has no “sell-by” date !
;->
Robert truly is African – American unlike many others.
We call Asian – Americans just Asians or else identify them by one nationality ( Chinese, Korean, Japanese, etc) while other groups get the hyphenated treatment.
Some day we’ll get past all this and quit labeling people for various reasons.
“An Argentinian wouldn’t place themselves in the same ethnic group as a Mexican, would they?”
Nope.
“the European Argentines generally hate any “Hispanic” with a drop of native blood.”
Not true. Though European Argentines (i.e. the vast majority of Argentines) do not suscribe to the plainly stupid idea that anyone of any race who speaks Spanish is somehow of the same ethnicity, they aren’t automatically prejudiced against native south-americans.
“In 2010, Mexico’s reported murder rate was 12 per 100k.”
23 per 100k
http://www.geocrimen.cide.edu/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=50&cntnt01origid=58&cntnt01pagelimit=5&cntnt01returnid=78
Text amended.
Gang violence isn’t an easy problem to solve and there’s no magic bullet (forgive the choice of words) to take care of it. It didn’t happen overnight and it won’t go away overnight. There’s a wide variety of factors that led to this and it’ll take someone a lot smarter than me (and a better typist–how hard is it to type “smarter?!”) to get to the real root cause.
I CAN tell you that the reason we haven’t made any headway, the reason nothing we’ve tried has worked is because everything people have tried have only addressed the symptoms of the disease and not the root cause.
Maybe it’s lack of education. Maybe it’s the War on Drugs. Maybe it’s the collapse of the family unit. Maybe it’s all three plus a few more things I’m not getting now, but until we figure it out and actually do something about it, the problem isn’t going to go away. And this is something that ALL sides are guilty of–because it’s easy, and the allure of a “quick fix” is strong for a politician controlling an electorate with the attention span of a four year old on cocaine. (BTW: if the shoe fits, lace that bitch up and wear it).
At least that’s what I think. I might be FOS, I might not.
Don’t worry! John Walsh and CNN are all over it.
That’s what I’m afraid of.
Reminds me of a little story that sheds light on the issue perfectly:
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Early one morning, on my way to my car from my neighborhood bar, I came across a town councilman under a street light, down on his hands and knees.
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I asked him what he was doing and he told me he was looking for his car keys.
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I thought I’d help him find them so I got down on my hands and knees and spent some time looking also.
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Getting a little frustrated, I asked him if he was sure he lost them here, under the light.
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He said “No. I lost them across the street!”
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When I inquired as to why the Hell he wasn’t looking for them across the street, he exclaimed: “Well, Hell man. The light’s better here, don’tcha know?”
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“Gang violence isn’t an easy problem to solve and there’s no magic bullet (forgive the choice of words) to take care of it. It didn’t happen overnight and it won’t go away overnight. There’s a wide variety of factors that led to this and it’ll take someone a lot smarter than me (and a better typist–how hard is it to type “smarter?!”) to get to the real root cause. ”
You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that the Establishment’s insane unconstitutional racist War on (some) Drugs is the root cause of
allthe vast majority of the carnage.You’re so right on. Dude. Everyone needs to just mellow out and give peace a chance. Can’t we all jjjjjjust get along/
Pot should be sold on every street corner. with food stamps, and mixed in baby formula and all cigarettes.
Go roll another one before you start sober up and get a clue.
Why should some intoxicants be sold above board by law-abiding people, and others sold only by criminals? Why is it preferable that the guy selling the pot is a guy with multiple felonies and connections to shady, violent people rather than a guy who works 18 hour days at his convenience store to save up for his kids’ college education?
I’m PuertoRican and although I have no beef w/ any of my other hispanic brethren, the fact is this. Each nationality has its own issues and culture. Although there are more mexicans than anyone else. There is no monolithic hispanic culture. People would be better served to remember that
To the Liberals, all Spanish speakers are “little brown people.” Sometimes they’re scary too. But Libs are definitely not racist. No siree!
Yeah, right. Is that what they told you down at the Klan meeting? Or was it the John Birch meeting?
And, for those that didn’t know this before, all you had to do is watch the World Cup to see the differences amongst the people and cultures.
Or a Spurs basketball game, with tall South Americans named Ginobili and Splitter.
I am American Indian, and the same is true there. For that matter, there is no monolithic white culture either. I imagine someone that identified as a female black hispanic LGBT would have similar concerns with how they were lumped in. Probably why most of these groups have issues even agreeing on how to be identified. i.e. Hispanic/Latino etc.
I, too, am Native American. I WAS BORN HERE.
ME TOO!! I have some American Indian ancestry AND I was born in the US. I am like extra native or something.
As there is no monolithic culture of any type. In the US we try to overcome our prejudices by dealing with each person as an individual and not part of a monolith. It’s not easy but we are making progress.
Oddly our media and political groups still treat racial groups as a monolith for statistical analysis although the racial groups are subdivided into education, income, sex and other stuff but when the media and politicians separate data by race it actually reinforces a segregationist mindset by comparing your group to their group.
“Each nationality has its own issues and culture…. There is no monolithic hispanic culture. People would be better served to remember that”
Wait, you mean the Progressive mentality of lumping people into large, overly generalized groups is flawed?
To add to the examples already given:
Men, women, southerners, northerners, midwesterners, rich, poor, middle class, American, European, African, Australian, Asian, South American, Californians, Chicagoans, New Yorkers, residents of Appalachia, homosexuals, heterosexuals, bisexuals, Christians, Muslims, Hindu, Buddhists, atheists, Wiccans, satanists, deists, agnostics, teenagers, college students, blue collar workers, white collar workers, retired folks, law enforcement officers, non-law enforcement officers, cops, deputies, federal employees, politicians, administrative assistants, Hollywood actors, military personnel, firemen, housewives, stay-at-home dads, stay-at-home moms, corporate drones, self employed, gun owners, gun haters, sustenance hunters, trophy hunters, sport hunters, varmint hunters, meat eaters, pescaterians, vegetarians, lacto-ovo vegetarians, animal rights activists, environmental rights activists, Moral Monday protesters, ACLU, NAACP, NRA, SAF, Occupy Wall Street protesters, 1911 fans, Glock fans, Sig fans, .45 fans, 9mm fans, semi-auto fans, revolver fans, pit bull lovers, pit bull haters, etc, etc, etc.
Am I to understand that these groups are made up of individuals?
As a Rottweiler loving, XD40 carrying, Zen Monotheist, I object to being excluded from your mostly inclusive list.
I heard that Nixon invented “Hispanic” during his first term just to give a common handle to all the various ethnicities/ national origins.
Of course it was Nixon. Or more likely George W. Booosh.
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It’s why the island that the Dominican Republic and Haiti occupy was named “Hispaniola” in the early 1500’s by the Spanish.
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Yet another example of the cult of victimology that is rampant in government (and academia).
According to this definition of Hispanic, because my Anglo ancestors were in Texas prior to 1836 (i.e., when this area was part of Mexico), I am a person “of any race having origins in Mexico.” Should I now be listing myself as Hispanic?
I guess I just missed the boat years ago by not pulling an Elizabeth Warren and claiming minority status. (Heck, I have a much more defensible claim of being “Hispanic” than she does of being Native American.) Given all the scholarship money I saw being doled out in college and grad school to “minority” students — even ones from wealthy families — I probably missed out on tons of goodies.
Of course, I prefer to be evaluated and treated by the law and society based on what I do and what I have done, and not on where my ancestors lived or my particular genetic makeup. But of course such sentiments are anathema to the left . . . .
You’d better be nice to Lisbet. She may be our next president.
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I need to go buy more ammunition now.
No nation could be THAT STUPID. (I hope).
This is a pretty typical tactic. Pile a bunch of statistics into a “study” and frame it as if the Latino community is being sought out by guns and gun violence.
Most non-white Americans I’ve spoken to about guns are at the very least suspicious of gun ownerhsip. The only across-the-board exception is people who have a gun-owning family member.
The reasons for this are complex, but one major factor is that the only gun owners they see are criminals, police and OFWGs.
I think gun normalization will go a long way with minorities. Colion Noir was almost that guy. Almost.
I have been to many ranges in several states, and I have often, for the past 30+ years, have seen non-white minorities participating in shooting. Similar observation at gun shows.
I think some of this stereotype is simple BS fueled by the media telling people that that is true. At the very least, it is certainly regional and as such, conclusions are over generalizations.
Every time I’m at the pistol range there is usually a wide selection of races (but as always OFWGs are the largest).
Do you mean they are largest because they are F and the others are more fit and trim? 😉
Around here (Seattle metro), I see mostly whites, but there are also surprisingly many East Asians.
Top countries that the current crop of immigrants on the south border are coming from: Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Columbia, Mexico, Costa Rica, Nicaragua.
Top countires for gun-homicide in 2012: Honduras (#1, 90.4/100k population), El Salvador (#5, 41.2/100k), Guatemala (#6 39.0/100k), Colombia (#12, 30.8/100k), Mexico at #22 (21.5/100k) Nicaragua ~#47 at 11.3/100k and last Costa Rica with a homicide rate of 8.5/100k.
Anyone want to guess what those countries gun-control policies are? I would think they would be thrilled with the option of finally being able to defend themselves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
As a hispanic having grown up in San Antonio, I don’t think that gun control will necessarily play well to the Hispanic crowd. Most of the people I knew growing up owned guns and most of them went hunting or other shooting sports or generally viewed firearms favorably. Then again it IS Texas and a California hispanic’s experience may differ drastically. However, I think that more outreach by the various firearms organizations couldn’t hurt. Hispanics are going to make up a larger and larger demographic going forward and if we don’t talk about firearms and the right of access to the means of self defense. Someone else will.
Oh my god the computer ate my long response, but I agree.
Im in Los Angeles. I work with real ‘wet’ immigrants from all over Mexico and Central America. They love guns and from what I understand, my Spanish is very poor, their families own lots of illegal guns back home. Especially the guys from Mexico.
I think the brainwashing starts after the first generation when people grow up in the middle of American culture wars.
So does the term Latino include Italians? If not, why not?
Good question. I’m Sicilian, and a GODFATHER. I’ll make ’em an offer they can’t refuse!
Was Italy a New World colony subjugated by the Spanish and Portuguese? And no, having a couple of Spanish kings doesn’t count. 🙂
Latinos would be for the peoples from Latin America, Italians are Europeans even though they spoke Latin in antiquity, and in any case, is not an ethnic but geographical definition.
“The study makes an excellent case for Hispanics to arm themselves against criminal predation, whether from within or without their community.
This.
“Most non-white Americans I’ve spoken to about guns are at the very least suspicious of gun ownership. The only across-the-board exception is people who have a gun-owning family member.
The reasons for this are complex, but one major factor is that the only gun owners they see are criminals, police and OFWGs.”
And this. My parents came here to Texas from Mexico in the late 70s when the violence at the border was almost as bad as it has been there for the last decade or so. Add still-rampant overt racism when they got here and guns were never something they had or would think to obtain. In their eyes, guns are owned by people up to no good and cops, sometimes one and the same. We knew people who had guns and hunted, but they were still weird or slightly untrustworthy for such a choice.
Sorry for the long post.
I used to work with a Hispanic guy who explained to me that in his culture you never backed down, ever.
Some time later he needed a personal day to attend a friend’s funeral, seems the guy had gotten into an altercation at a party that escalated until the other guy pulled a gun and shot his friend in the head.
I really don’t think he ever made the connection.
Just wanted to add that as an adult husband and father I see the importance of becoming a gun owner and passing it on.
The only thing this means is that south and central america have high homicide rates. I think we all know why that is.
Brazil especially has an insane homicide rate, which doubled after they enacted a ton of legislation prohibiting guns.
And my earlier comments on a different post regarding illegal immgrstion and crime rates still stand. Speaking the truth about a race or ethnic group is not racist, even if the truth reveal negative attributes. The LA area has – standby for the shock of it – a large black and Hispanic population with high crime and murder rates. One of the progressive solutions is to make firearms more difficult to obtain for responsible citizens.
One of my solutions is to respect the right of responsible citizens to be armed. If you live in a dangerous neighborhood, than the denizens therein might just rob, rape, or murder you.
Of course I’d also deport illegals, minimize welfare, and have the death penalty for mass murderers. Then again, I’m just a cop who works the streets and couldn’t possibly know anything about restoring the freedom and greatness of this nation.
“One of my solutions is to respect the right of responsible citizens to be armed. “
Then please consider donating to this group:
http://armedcitizenproject.org/
(I’m not affiliated, just a believer in their cause).
Anyway, the race is on (so to speak). Let’s hope the NRA also has its sights set on the same target as the VPC. The future of gun rights may depend on it.”
Absolutely. As much as I’d love to win over more African Americans and have them reap the benefits of gun ownership, they are a stagnant demographic as a percent of the population. The Hispanic portion is growing rapidly. Right now they are disproportionately young and illegal as far as being able to vote, but that will change.
Its okay – I mean all white people are the same ethnically. It isn’t like the Saxons and the Normans ever fought long wars against one another or a massive campaign against the Slavic people was ever undertaken.
Also, true story, my cousin’s husband (to clarify) is from (born and raised) South Africa but he isn’t allowed to be African-American ethnically – since you know, he wasn’t raised in Africa or anything.
What about somebody from Haiti, Brazil, or Belize, where they speak French, Portuguese, and English respectively?
Are they Hispanic? None of them live in a Spanish derived culture, but the Haitians live on the island of Hispaniola, so maybe they’re Hispaniolic.
Also, what’s the deal with the graphic? Shouldn’t there be a huge number, or lots of pictures of innocent children killed by gun violence (i.e. MS-13 members)?
Officially, “Hispanic” includes only Spanish speakers.
I’m sure that after reading the VPC’s latest screed, MS-13 will be lining up to lay down their guns at Sugarwoman’s feet.
If current reports are correct, US based MS13 etc are fully occupied at present setting a reception for the massive influx of their Central American chapter members. Thanks Obuma.
FWIW, hispanic is just spanish speaking, so it’s Spain and most of Central and South America with the exception of Brazil (Portugese) and a few French speaking nations. Latino refers to people from Latin America, so it’s all of Central and South America, but not Spain. There’s a lot of overlap between the two, but they’re different groups. THE MORE YOU KNOW.
The death rate by homicide among blacks in this age group is 101.8 per 100k, and accounts for 48% of all premature deaths.
http://topconservativenews.com/2012/04/black-men-are-the-leading-cause-of-death-among-young-blacks/
Hi there, I’m Hispanic (specifically of Nicaraguan descent) and I completely oppose gun control. Just sayin’. I really hate it when people assume my political affiliations based solely on my ethnic background. That’s some textbook racial profiling there, buddy.
To my recollection of the history. The BS label of “Hispanic” was invented by libtard RINO progressive in the Nixon admin (Rockefeller Republicans). Some Karl Rove type decide the democrats completed the purchase of and OWNED the established “minorities” of the day (blacks).
But to stay in power, the Republican Party need to own large minority” themselves and hit on rebranding all individuals living South of CONUS (generically speaking Mexican/Spanish). They spun the wild tale for the existing Rep. base that these folks were “family values”/church going (Catholic) type cousins of the OFWG/mainstream Republicans. What these clueless spinmasters loved was the big population base and high birth rate (illegitimate). The reality was not exactly a fit with the values of the Republican base and their plan was/is moronic. Not that they have given up yet. Rove etc still preaching the RINOs need to be MORE like the dems and more libtard in order to attract the “Hispanic” crowd. Leave out the Spanish speaking citizens who actually ARE Conservative, responsible, and/or values voters.
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