If you missed the news yesterday, the ATF raided the offices of Nevada-based Polymer80. The pretense for the raid was the regulator’s new interpretation of gun law claiming that selling an 80% pistol frame in a box, along with all of the other parts needed to build a complete gun makes the kit a legal firearm.
To be clear, selling the 80% frame in one box and a completion kit in another is apparently A-OK as far as the galaxy brains at the ATF are concerned. But selling them in one box now makes the contents a firearm and means it has to be serialized and transferred via your local FFL.
Yes, that’s a fly-encrusted load of stinking equine excrement, but that’s the regulatory environment in which we live (and it’s not going to improve any time soon).
What can be done about it? Well, an affected individual can sue the bastards at the ATF. That would be a really good start.
We’ve talked to the folks at Gun Owners of America and they’re fixin’ to do just that. There’s only one problem. They need a plaintiff. That’s where you come in.
To qualify, all you have to be is an owner of one of Polymer80’s Buy Build Shoot kits. Oh, and you also have to live in Alabama.
Is that you? If not, do you have a friend in the Yellow Hammer State who owns one of those kits? Please let us know. Email us at [email protected] and we’ll get the process started.
Please spread the word and thanks for your help.
This whole thing stinks to high heaven.
and its going to get way worse before it gets any better
regardless of who wins this election
our college and university systems have been cranking out marxists and fomenting revolutionaries for decades now
and theyre assuming power nationwide
with the help of globalists and new world order types and communist china
they cant be bargained with
they cant be reasoned with
and they absolutely will not stop until our necks are under their boot
or worse
You still think Trump is going to WIN? Put down the crack pipe. The Democrats have cheated in every wat possible and Trump has no chance.
Just hope we get a good candidate in 2024. NOT A TRUMP
Teddy will work.
There’s so much stupid in this opinion I don’t even know where to begin
“Just hope we get a good candidate in 2024.”
Trump served a single purpose: smash-mouth politics against the Republicrats and Dimwitocrats. No other Republican, past or future (except a second Trump win in 2024) has the stuff needed to thwart the Leftists.
Losing professionally, graciously, gracefully, “gentlemanly”, mannerly is nothing more than losing. History never heralds “good losers.”
2024? You really think anyone but commiecrats will ever win an election in this country again? If they successfully steal 2020 they will just continue to do what they have been doing; stack the deck every way imaginable and do everything criminal and dishonest they can. And since they will control the entire federal government there will be no one to stop them. There will be only democrat winners from here on out.
“No other Republican, past or future (except a second Trump win in 2024) has the stuff needed to thwart the Leftists.”
Disagree.
Nikki Haley is interested and will be an outstanding candidate…
“Nikki Haley is interested and will be an outstanding candidate…”
She is a “go along to get along” politician. A member of “the establishment” if you like. If she had been a candidate for president in 2016, she would be among the “Jeb and everyone else” (except Cruz) vs. Trump contingent. She is not a street fighter, and the Dims know it.
What makes you think voting will even matter anymore? This is the dems wet dream. There is no reason for them to put up with the pesky fickle voters anymore.
“What makes you think voting will even matter anymore?”
“voting” as in “the popular vote” is not the constitutional determinant….so far. If you would search for a statement in the constitution regarding the popular vote determining who will be President, you better pack a lunch and a suitcase…such provision ain’t there. Constitutionally, individual voting for the President never mattered.
” No other Republican, past or future (except a second Trump win in 2024) has the stuff needed to thwart the Leftists. ”
Oh, I don’t know about that. I understand where you’re coming from with that (at least I think I do). But Trump was (is) an outlier, and while Trump might be sidelined for moment, “Trumpism” is not. The Dems have spent the last 30+ years creating the conditions that made Trump possible, and now they are poised to aggravate things even worse. It may be Trump, or it may be a Trump clone, but I fully expect 2024 to bring on an even bigger nationalist populism than Trump brought in 2016. Wishful thinking, maybe, but I think I see it coming.
As for Republicans now and future — it doesn’t take anything more than an eleventh-hour declaration to run for either party. The Bloomer is a good example of this — threw his hat in the ring (and his checkbook) at the last minute, this after having flip-flopped from Dem to Rep and back again as the political winds shifted. So anybody at any time can put themselves up as a candidate for either party, which makes the available pool anyone over 35. It takes a pretty broad brush to eliminate all that.
Just to add to the nuttiness of it all, I’m making the early prediction that Tulsi Gabbard is going to jump from Dem to Rep and declare a candidacy for POTUS in 2024. Crazy talk, I know, but don’t forget you heard it here first.
“Trump might be sidelined for moment, “Trumpism” is not.”
If Trump decides to abandon the field of politics, then “Trumpsim” is, indeed, dead.
Where are all the “Trumpers” who demanded the latest election be overturned? There are a handful, and they are not sitting in Congress/Senate. The few real “Trumpers” in the House and Senate don’t seem to be frothing to take the Trump brand themselves into 2022, much less 2024. The “Trumpers” (of which Haley is, for instance, not on) should be on a rampage to destroy the Dims in 2022…right now. Where is the heat?
No, the Republicrats will return to “norm”, and because there are no independently wealthy “Trumpers” to replace DJT, street fighting the Dims will become a distant, but treasured memory.
Trump was what “fighting back” looks like.
” If Trump decides to abandon the field of politics, then “Trumpsim” is, indeed, dead. ”
Disagree. “Trumpism” was never really about Trump — in this you make the same mistake the Dems do, thinking that “Trumpism” is a cult of personality, and cutting off the head kills the snake. Wrong. “Trumpism” is not the product of Trump, it is the product of global neoliberalism and austerity that started under Clinton and will continue to intensify under Biden. Trump did not get elected because he’s liked. He got elected because the people are really pissed off at the way the Dems (and the Reps along for the ride) have screwed them over. Trump’s gone, but the underlying anger is still very much there, and it’s going to be exploited again by another nationalist populist, whoever that may be, in 2024.
“Trumpism” is about Trump. The “movement” was moribund until a leader who personified the values arrived. The people who voted for Trump were always there, but the “leaders” didn’t care (remember Jebby announced he would win without “base”?). in 2016, there were 15 Republicrat candidates, and one Trump. The “base” rejected the 15 Republicrats, each of whom could have captured “the base”) if they believed in the values of the base).
Not talking about a “cult of personality”, as in dictators, but a movement in need of a personality so different from “business as usual”. Trump filled the demand. Which politician on “the right” can personify the movement, and energize the “base”. Pick one of the failed 15, or one of the admittedly Republican national politicians who can get 15,000 people to drive for days to stand in the rain to participate in a campaign rally. Go ahead, pick one.
The “Tea Party” went dormant for lack of an inspiring leader. Trump’s “base” is no different. Without a vision, the people perish. The people need both a vision, and a leader to inspire the life of the vision.
It is the same with the Second Amendment, there is a base, but no coherent, solidifying leader to secure the victory.
” a movement in need of a personality so different from “business as usual”. Trump filled the demand. ”
Exactly right, and exactly my point. Out of all 15 Rep candidates, Trump was the one who tapped in to the anger that was already there. The rest were basically Dem clones who couldn’t see what was right in front of them, and they never shifted their posture to head off Trump. So Trump got elected.
But that’s all history. The reason the Reps are not lining up behind Trump now is because they don’t need him any more. He showed them what they need to do. Now that they have the keys to the castle, they don’t need the king any more. The Dems, in their headlong rush to dump Trump also had to repudiate his policies, so they can’t tap into the nationalist sentiments that drove Trump home. But the Republicans can, and since Trump didn’t create those sentiments, they don’t need Trump in order to mine them. All they need is another Trump, one, hopefully, with better table manners. As sure as the day is long, this Trump clone is out there, and he will surface before ’24. The “movement” is far from dead even if Trump is never heard from again.
*note: this nationalism has nothing to do with white supremacy, and the Dems made a big mistake when they equated the two. They have effectively cut themselves off from an ever-growing nationalist sentiment, they can never tap in to it without looking like complete fools (not hard for a Dem to do anyway), and it could be their downfall. As evidenced by Trump’s gain among blacks and latins this past election, the nationalism has nothing to do with race or ethnicity. It’s very broad and goes very deep.
” All they need is another Trump, one, hopefully, with better table manners.”
I think this is where Republicrats always get derailed: expecting a street fighter to have country club decorum and manners. In war, you don’t want elegance, you want absolute victory. The base Trump tapped into didn’t want, “Harumph, harumph, tut, tut”. That base wanted someone to smash, stomp, dominate, obliterate the progressives. That base voted in greater numbers in 2020 than 2016; Trump was fighting the way the movement wanted; and wanted more.
A return to “normal” for the Republicrats will be a defeat for the Trump base, and no prissy, polite university elite will gain the same loyalty. Looking about the country, who do you see as a powerful disruptor to replace/carry on the Trump banner? As noted before, looking around the country, who do you see, Dim or Rep, who can inspire 15,000 people to stand in the rain for a campaign rally? Neither party had such a leader for over 50yrs. A politician wanting to pick-up the baton from Trump will have to exceed the Trumpster, not match. In my case, I would vote Republicrat over any Dim, but only by mail; not worth my time to stand in line to vote in person.
I am in Texas, and vote for Cruz every time he is on the senatorial ballot, but some people see the guy as not very likeable, which is part of getting elected president. I like the guy and his policies, but electability is part of the equation. We need a guy like Trump without the stupid tweets.
Go join the wacko libtards Daniel. You sound like one. If the SHTF you’d be the first one ratting out your neighbors.
That plant life won a presidential election from a basement with many days in complete shut down. I want to thank the Never Trumpers, GOP, [ Libertarians and Independence that took votes from Donald], that had it in for President Trump and the Destruction of the Republic. Free Elections are over in this country. Enjoy your little victory you traitors because the next generations will pay dearly.
Big Fix was a success
Don’t rule out an armed revolt. My multiple oaths to “support and defend the constitution” during 3 wars and 24 years in the Army has no expiration date. We go Lexington and Concord or Venezuela. Your choice. I’ve got one word for ya…………Wolverines!
Forgive my ignorance, but what does Alabama have to do with it?
Originally, I thought to get all snarky and emulate the liberal clarion call to identify anything and everything some sort of illegal gun. However…..
The glove has been thrown down; the challenge issued: who will put it on the line and take the heat from friends, neighbors, lodge fellows, the usual suspects, the liberal anti-freedom mob?
Seems there are only four outcomes: no one in Alabama actually possesses one of the kits; someone owns one, and fears self-identifying as a target for government and media; someone in Alabama owns a kit, and is willing to be tormented by “the system” in defense of the Constitution; someone in Alabama is willing to purchase a kit, then stand-up to challenge government.
FPC, GOA, and some others have found plaintiffs in the past, but this challenge is different, a direct to the heart of the matter because at the moment, government has not “gone after” anyone in Alabama.
Hurry, there will be a mad rush in Alabama to be the lead plaintiff in law suit.
If you think this is bad, wait & see what Biden & Kamel Toe has got for the gun world to get excited about, ain’t gonna be pretty, if Sleepy Joe keeps his word were going to have to deal with the , Light in the loafers, Beto O.,,, should be a interesting 4 yrs ahead.💩
This all came about because of Trump. Kamala got her gun control idea from Trump. Maybe it will be worse because of Trump, but I highly doubt that after seeing what Obama and Biden didn’t do.
I’m waiting on my build kit. But I’m in the largest communist state on the west coast. Next to the state within which P80 resides.
I’m here in the same place as you, though I purchased all the components to my P80s separately from different sources, and a couple of years ago before the CADOJ #registrationnotregistration law went into effect.
… or, if a purchaser has not yet assembled the ‘kit’, could he just return it in the (1) box to P80 and have them separate the pieces into (2) boxes and send it back. And if already assembled, disassemble it and send it back.
Creepy Uncle Joe already has a group of Executive Orders ready go #1 (Day One) is banning sales of “Military Style” rifles, followed by “high capacity” magazines.. Then it is “mandatory” registration of existing “banned” firearms AND magazines under NFA regulations OR sell your guns and magazines to the government, he also has one to ban on-line sales of parts and ammo… Fortunately these EOs are weak and will most likely not stand up in the courts.. He has even bragged about “fixing” the issues of the Clinton ban… The only thing he’s not fixing is the fact that banning a particular type of firearm did not reduce gun crime in the 90s and it won’t make any difference now… This asshole is not my president and I will not comply with his clown show mandates…. Molon Labe you perverted lying bag of shit….
Why does it have to be someone in Alabama?
If you want to sue in that state, you need to have personal jurisdiction… the easiest way to establish that is through domicile (aka you reside in the forum state). As far as why they want to sue in that forum, it could be due to choice of law, favorable judges, whatever.
Judge and circuit shopping are done all of the time by good attorneys.
“Why does it have to be someone in Alabama?”
I’ll take a WAG the lawyer interested in filing the case is licensed there…
I’m not an attorney. But I’ve found out that someone in Mississippi would work, too.
If I were to move from South Carolina…Alabama is where I would go.
https://rockfordgunclub.com/photos
Crimson Pirate,
My educated guess is that Alabama will be the most favorable venue for a federal lawsuit — both at the “local” and Circuit Court of Appeals levels.
What in it for an Alabama resident to “step up”? You paying legal bill’s Dan?
No, but GOA is.
I didn’t see a single word about Trump anywhere in this post. But that doesn’t matter. It seems like every damn time I take the time and trouble to see what other people are thinking and saying about the SUBJECT MATTER IN THE HEADLINE here on TTAG, there’s always a dozen or more screeds going on and on and on blasting Trump about something. It doesn’t matter what it is. There’s always something.. Like everything really is his damn fault. It gets so goddamned old. Get off it already! The man will be gone on January 20, and then you can’t drag his ass into every single conversation (if you can call them that) here in the comments section.
Nice to see someone else sees through the politically inept muck on this forum. There’s not a time’s worth of difference between some on this forum and those on cnn et al.
“There’s not a time’s worth of difference between some on this forum and those on cnn et al.”
TTAG is not an echo chamber.
“TTAG is not an echo chamber.”
More akin to the Grand Canyon than a simple echo chamber.
I love government logic. If a business sells an 80% frame and all of the parts needed to build a pistol as a single item, it is selling a firearm. If the business sells the 80% frame separate from all the other parts needed to build a pistol, then it is not selling a firearm. So, if I buy the 80% frame and all of the other parts needed to build a pistol separately and then drop them all together into a box, did I just manufacture a firearm? Holy crap, I just figured out what is going on, now I understand. I feels like the business is selling a firearm. Since reality is now based on feelings alone, it all makes sense. Isn’t basing life on feelings instead of reality great? If I feel like a billionaire tomorrow, will I actually be one?
“If I feel like a billionaire tomorrow, will I actually be one?”
Don’t see why not. If you feel like a girl tomorrow, you can be one.
Or right now, Sammi baby… 🙂
No, but you can pretend to be a woman, regardless of what your chromosomes are (silly science.)
Not just PRETEND, you can legally BE a woman or man or a fucking pencil if you so desire regardless of your ACTUAL biological sex or species….
This should clear it up for you; the government in toto is expressly prohibited from interfering with firearm purchases, ownership, possession or use *in any way* (see definition of “infringed”). When they then are absolutely determined to violate that prohibition and think they can get away with that by playing stupid word games with the American populace, the results can not help but appear idiotic to any person of moderate intelligence. In short, this level of stupidity should not surprise us.
Do not comply. If you do, then it proves you’ll comply when they ban ars. But whatever.
Just like with the “pistols” that got determined as SBRs, it’s the marketing that screws you.
No, it is the constant and unrelenting violation of the Constitution, by faceless, nameless, unelected bureaucrats, that is screwing us.
My thought is this is the 1st phase of many. In no particular order.
Pistol build kits
Ar build kits
Ak build kits
Un-serialized pistol frames
Un-serialized AR & AK frames
Serialized AR & AKs
Mags greater than 10
Anyone on this forum who bashed the POTUS over the past 4 years can eat poop. When it comes to politics these vagina hat wearing “men” on this forum couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn.
If you have a problem with the POTUS then you have a problem with your ignorant self. The results of pathetic fools holding hands with democRats and slandering and libeling the POTUS? obiden/oharris.
The POTUS has raised the bar for the Republican Party. The days of RINOS ever being elected POTUS are over and gone…You hearing me mitt romney? Don’t even think about it you ratbassturd.
Trump could at the very least TRY to stop the atf. He’s literally their boss and doesn’t give a rats ass
Shh, you’ll upset the children. It’s too late for some to undrink the kool-aid. Even if all this ATF hogwash (starting with bump-stocks and red flag laws) started (and continues to this current day) under Trump’s watch.
With ‘friends’ like Trump, gun owners don’t need enemas (sic intentional), because we’re already getting f*@%ed in the a#! by uncle sugar.
Why isn’t Don Jr. telling dad to rip ATF a new one?
What he can’t even throw us a bone on the way out?
I voted for him but it’s shit like this that can be stopped with one phone call that gets my goat.
POTUS should fire everybody in the chain that deployed the goat fuck operation.
Why isn’t Don Jr. telling dad to rip ATF a new one?
Because Don Jr. wants to head up the NRA and doesn’t want to “rock the boat” too much..
Why the HELL would any billionaire want to be caught dead in the vicinity of the NRA? That is simply nonsensical.
If you bought one these from the website, used a credit or debit card and had it shipped to an address that can be linked to you. They have your information.
They can’t prove you posses anything. You will, however, get notification that these need to be registered / destroyed if it goes that direction.
If you are in Alabama and are legally eligible, join the class action lawsuit. Fight these bastichs, tooth and nail.
Give them two cuts for every one they give us. Tie em up in court, demand Confessional hearings when they do this type of crap.
Trump should declare this raid illegal, demand the seized records be destroyed and then have the top dogs at the ATF certify the destruction under penalty of perjury.
Polymer 80 should then have a catastrophic systems failure and lose all past customer identity and transaction records.
At the very least Alabama should file a lawsuit against the ATF for attempting to suppress legal interstate commerce.
After 4 years of hashtag resist and hashtag not my president I am tired of this. No compromise, no retreat, no surrender. F Joe and ‘Ho’.
LMAO, get a load of this dummy who thinks Trump cares about our gun rights! Haha, nice one moron.
I never received, nor will I ever receive, any such notification, prove I did. Just ignore such crap. No need, of course, if you have never authorized the damn registry in the first place.
The Supreme Court has been pretty clear about assembling firearms. In the case linked below, the court ruled that an SBR must be assembled to create an SBR. It feels ridiculous to type the previous sentence, but the ATF actually had to be told that. Of course, the ATF and every other part of our government have a long history of ignoring SCOTUS cases that clearly spells out gun rights.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Thompson-Center_Arms_Co.
Yeah, otherwise it could get ridiculous. I have a .300 SBR, also several 5.56 ARs, it is *POSSIBLE* to mount the .300 upper on another AR lower, which would create an SBR so they could throw me in prison for 5 years or so? In which case, anyone who wanted an SBR would need to dispose of all similar weapons? WHY? I might also obtain several other pistol/SBR uppers in various calibers for use with my SBR lower, so what? This is all NONSENSE!
In the words of a great American… “I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass…. and I’m all out of bubble gum”….
We don’t even “special glasses” we KNOW who THEY are…
I would not freak out just yet (key word “yet”).
The ATF, by and large, is like a swarm of wasps. They generally do not attack unless disturbed.
In reality, nothing is new here. Shipping everything for a complete firearm has been frowned upon for decades. You can buy a cap and ball revolver and a conversion cylinder, but they have to be bought SEPARATELY
Individually, a black powder cap and ball revolver is not a firearm under federal law (no external cartridges), and a conversion cylinder is not a firearm. You can buy them in separate orders and assemble them in your home to make a firearm, but already-converted cap and ball revolvers have to go through a FFL. If sellers advertised these two items as a single order kit, I am sure the ATF would raid the office and contact each buyer for forfeiture.
The same is true of German flare launchers and rifled chamber adapters that you can buy (e.g. 22lr and 45/410). Order them separately and the ATF will not bother you. Order them together, and you just ordered a firearm through the mail!
The problem here was that Polymer80 was shipping EVERYTHING that you need to build a Glock in one complete kit; a “de facto” firearm, you might say.
The ATF was only after the buy it build it shoot it kits. They are not after the 80 percent lowers, so if you bought the lower buy itself in your order, don’t freak out just yet.
You’re missing the factual point that it’s not all the parts for a complete firearm. The 80% lower is not complete and cannot be made into a working firearm unless the end-user finish-machines the appropriate parts out with the correct tools.
Now you’re telling me someone selling a box of steel ingots can be arrested for selling a firearm without a license because there’s a complete firearm in there, waiting to have the parts machined into all the working parts of a firearm and then assembled.
Where does one draw the line? A guy who has a bag of empty aluminum pop cans, play sand and plaster of Paris is in possession of an AR lower now?
Rest easy, the SCOTUS will protect the RKBA!
Just like they protected the election from fraud!
Good thing we got Gorsuch Kavanaugh and ACB! Whew! 4D chess!
AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLTELY DIFFERENT, Or is it?………..
A New York woman is facing weapons charges after the NYPD stormed her home and seized at least 22 guns from her apartment. According to various reports, members of the NYPD raided Elizaveta Zlatkis’ home in 2019 and discovered the weaponry. A later investigation found that 21 of the 22 firearms were not real. Analysis from the department showed that all weapons were either inoperable or fake, and Elizaveta Zlatkis has said that she lends the fake weapons to rappers and producers to use in music videos or other artistic productions.
Authorities in 2019 raided Zlatkis’ home and charged her with first-degree criminal possession of a weapon. She faces a possible 25-year prison sentence. According to the Forest Hills Post, NYPD officers “acting on a tip” raided Zlatkis’ home and discovered the cache of weaponry in her apartment. “The next day, cops from the 112th Precinct arranged the 22 seized weapons on a table and posed for a Twitter photo commemorating the bust,” the outlet reported. “There was just one problem with the narrative and the charges: 21 of the 22 supposed firearms were airsoft rifles, toy replicas, or starter pistols — the kind used at track meets — incapable of firing ammunition, according to the NYPD’s own laboratory reports,” the Forest Hills Post noted. According to the Queens Daily Eagle, Zlatkis said that just one of the 22 weapons was a real firearm. The trigger, Zlatkis said, hand grip, and other internal components were all missing. Bearing Arms reported that even though the guns were either fake or inoperable, “in the eyes of the law Zlatkis may very well be a gun owner, since a firearm is defined federally to include a finished frame or receiver for a gun, even if it doesn’t have a trigger attached to it.” “Even starter pistols meet the definition of a firearm under federal law because the ATF says they can be ‘readily converted’ into a real firearm,” the outlet said.
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