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Yes, let’s definitely define “devices” under the Food and Drug Administration’s remit as broadly as possible. That way, not only firearms, but other everyday implements like electric shavers, toothbrushes, hair dryers and much, much more would also fall under their purview.

Presently, the FDA defines “devices as an instrument, apparatus, or a component intended to either diagnose, cure and treat — or “affect the structure or any function of the body of man or other animal.”

Using this definition, firearms and ammunition clearly are devices and accessories that can affect the structure or function of a body because of its ability to cause deliberate or accidental harm, [University of Florida law professor Lars] Noah wrote.

If regulated as a “device” through the FDA, this would mean that they’d have the ability to impose a national minimum age for purchasing, demand clearer storage instructions, and introduce performance safety standards.

Noah noted that while some might consider it a stretch to include firearms  in this definition, the FDA is used to regular indoor tanning equipment and sunlamps.

These skin-darkening devices clearly serve primarily a cosmetic purpose, but fall under the FDA’s  “device” authority because it has the ability to affect the structure or function of the body while also being an instrument.

“Guns and ammunition literally fit within FDA jurisdiction over ‘devices’ because these products unmistakably intend to affect the structure or function of the body,” Noah concluded.

For other skeptics who Noah said may argue that Congress should handle this issue and not the FDA, Noah responds by saying that Congress had their chance — and they “responded in a chaotic fashion” with disjointed state regulation and differing purchase rules.

— Andrea Cipriano in Biting the Bullet: Can the FDA Regulate Firearms?

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69 COMMENTS

  1. I’ll toss my name in the hat to run that one. Not sure the lefties in power would like what I do and say though. I’d be willing to bet I could round up a decent sized staff to back me up as well.

  2. — clearly are devices and accessories that can affect the structure or function of a body because of its ability to cause deliberate or accidental harm —

    What physical object exists that cannot be used to cause deliberate or accidental harm?

      • A SPORK is one of the most innocuous lethal weapons available to man… The tip of the handle can be sharpened to a point and used to penetrate the brain through an eye socket or even disrupt the brain stem.. Here are also a number of major veins and arteries as well as the ability to restrict airflow into and out of the lungs that are well within range of the lowly spork… Never overlook the weapons capability of ANY object….

        • The only sporks I’ve ever seen were cheap plastic that broke after only a few bites of mac ‘n cheese.. Are you saying you can ninja that thing into a cranium-busting weapon?

        • Corrections? Bruh, a bedsheet is a weapon. You know best how fucking stupid this whole thing is. Anything can be a weapon. Like jet li’s fingers at 24fps with the right angle and timing…

    • “. . . a component INTENDED to . . . affect the structure or any function of the body of man or other animal.”

      So, the problem isn’t that a tire iron can affect the structure of the body of man or bear, it’s that a gun is so designed.

      So then we have to work a little harder in picking our examples. E.g. the “spork” or spoon or fork are designed to affect the structure or function of a man’s body by shoveling food into the mouth of that man. This function is to be distinguished from a table knife (butter knife or stake knife) which is intended to cut food but not convey it to the mouth.

      The whole thing is foolish enough on its face. We just need to be careful about mocking the proposal with precise examples.

      Food and drugs are a reasonable collection of products distinct from spoons and forks (Consumer Product Safety Commission), Cobalt-60 (Nuclear Regulatory Commission) and guns (ATF). These commissions can’t be jackasses of all trades and masters of none. If Congress doesn’t think the ATF is getting its job done it should reform the ATF, not sanction some other agency (FDA) to encroach.

      • They’ve done this before with laser pointers.

        Nine or ten years ago my buddy and I got pretty deep into astrophotography but we didn’t have a telescope really meant for the purpose. Long story short, we decided that the best way to do things was a visible beam laser pointer meant for astronomy field trips.

        So, we attempted to get one from Wicked Lasers, one of their blue 1W models. And about the time we did it CBP started confiscating the packages when they entered the US because the FDA declared the laser pointers to be “medical devices” that mere plebs were not allowed to possess. Ostensibly this was because if you were overexposed to the direct beam the blue light could cause cancer. Now it’s not like this thing was an actual medical device. It wasn’t designed that way and, as designed, had exactly zero uses within the field. In fact, the device was never designed to be shown at people at all. It was explicitly noted that this behavior was dangerous on both the website and the device documentation so it wasn’t “intended” to affect people but misuse could, in theory, cause this.

        But that didn’t stop them. The “effects of end user abuse” were, and still are, considered a valid reason for FDA regulation effectively banning private sale of the device and they used the fact that the device came with specialized eyepro as “proof” of this.

        Wicked Lasers came up with a way to get them to people, shipping them from one part of Hong Kong to another then to mainland China, then to Canada, then to the US and then to the buyer where each set of the way added a new box with new shipper/addressee information to throw CBP off their trail. They also tracked the package so that if it was confiscated they’d send that person another device and keep doing so until it was actually delivered to the person who ordered it. This put very significant financial strain on the company at the time, but they did make it “over the hump” in this case.

        So, the FDA has shown by its past actions that it cares little for logic when it comes to following its own rules about what is and is not “designed” or “intended” to do something.

        The lesson here being: Never underestimate the idiocy of power-grabby nature of a federal executive agency or their proclivity to to torture logic, law or regulation in such ways as they argue give them regulatory authority over the object/action in question once they decide that they don’t like it.

        • After what we’ve been witnessing over the past several months, I no longer underestimate the Dems on any lunacy.

          Or fraud.

          Or theft.

          Or lies.

    • “What physical object exists that cannot be used to cause deliberate or accidental harm?”

      A Progressive, of course!

      Everybody knows they are harmless, lovable fuzz-balls oozing nothing more than gobs of kindness, compassion, tolerance and understanding.

      (I think I need to vomit… 🙂 )

      I can’t wait for Sam I Am’s eloquent and witty observation on that bowel movement…

      • Geoff…………

        “What physical object exists that cannot be used to cause deliberate or accidental harm?”

        I have not heard of anyone being killed or damaged by toe-nail clippings.

        Maybe I missed it.
        Just sayin’.

        • Accelerate the clippings in space to orbital velocity and they are satelite killers.
          Just saying…..

    • Actually guns never harm or even touch the body. Only the bullet does. So her argument would be better , but still incredibly stupid , if she called on FDA regulation of bullets.

  3. Why stop at three letters? How about an over-arching Federal Agency to coordinate all anti-gun efforts?

    Federal
    Regulatory
    Inter-agency
    Gun
    Grabbing
    Investigation
    Network.

  4. “affect the structure or any function of the body of man or other animal.”

    That is SO sexist.

  6. I bet a bowling pin would fall under this definition unless he is omitting parts of the law that dictate this to cover items used in a medical or supplemental sense. There’s only one way I’d support this; Eliminate the other agencies since they’re redundant and then the FDA gets to take over. Obviously they still have to obey the regulations already in place.

    The fact that this is even an idea shows that Chevron Deference has gone way way too far.

    • Yes, eliminate the ATF, replace with the FDA. On the one hand, they would have to allow silencers for ear protection, in fact, they would probably end up sold with each gun… Probably with the opposite extreme, you can’t use a gun without a suppressorr. Which, while I enjoy using them, I wouldn’t want to be forced to have them in all circumstances.

      I would argue as well that these new classes of lead pellet insertion treatment devices should fall into at least three categories. 1. those needing accurate, surgical precision for lead pellet insertion, eg precision rifles, hunting, sniper 2. Mass lead pellet therapy device, eg full auto and semi auto devices, when precision isn’t needed as much as delivering high dosages of lead and copper thereputic pellets. 3. Field use compact and portable lead therapy device, for on body carry and emergency treatment use.

      FDA warning: lead and copper pellet insertion therapy is used to curb violent and aggressive behaviors in patients. Some patients are temporarily cured by being presented with the lead pellet insertion device, while others require dosages of 1 to 30 or more thereputic pellets. Life threatening side effects are possible, including blood loss, organ failure, or death, please see a physician before engaging in aggressive or violent behavior and before seeking out lead insertion thereputic treatments, or injury or death may result.

      • Actually I’d be fine with suppressors being mandatory safety equipment as A: that would not be enforceable on private land unless someone else’s land were within dangerous dB range of your muzzle (which is, what, 100 yds depending on what you’re shooting?) and B: most suppressor/ammo combos don’t make a gun hearing safe anyway, so you could just put a stubby can on that knocks off two or three dB and technically be compliant. I suppose they could regulate a minimum reduction like with earplugs, but then you could just use only the first baffle out of a modular and say you took off the rest of the caps to cool and/or re-wet them and weren’t shooting without them (and you can’t prove I was.)

        Of course, ideally you would be free to choose when and where to suppress any gun you have. But to take the car muffler analogy, I would much rather have them be mandatory for street legality (as they are now) than to be virtually banned and prohibitively expensive for most users. Even then the scofflaws who have “mufflers”-which-are-actually-loudeners and which don’t comply with state or federal law are rarely prosecuted and then only fined if they are.

  9. How ridiculous…..every thing man made, or of natural nature affects the structure or function of a body including this “damn laptop” computer I’m now typing on and this face mask that is stretching and deforming my ears!

    • You know of course, the face mask mandate is a secret program by Barack Obama to make everyone’s ears look like his…

      • Dr Fauci says: “There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face.”

        • As we learn more about the virus, protection protocols will be modified to produce a more effective regimen of virus prevention.

          This is the very basis of scientific advancement, constant research providing new data to support new protocols.

          “Fauci made this comment on an interview with 60 Minutes on March 8, during the early stages of the novel coronavirus outbreak in the United States. A longer extract of the interview is visible youtu.be/PRa6t_e7dgI (see 30-second mark).

          The interview predates the CDC’s updated guidance on the use of face coverings. On April 3, 2020, the CDC updated its previous advice and recommended people wear cloth face coverings “in public settings when around people outside their household, especially when social distancing measures are difficult to maintain.”

  11. It’s not the Bill of Needs…It is the Bill of Rights. You don’t throw the 2A in the stupid stew pot. The focus should not be on “doctoring” a Constitutional Right. The focus should remain on the criminal misuse of firearms….

    Criminal Misuse of Firearms includes perverts who think the can behave like the sheet wearing military wing of the democRat Party better known as the KKK or march like hitler’s jack booted nazi SS and threaten, bully or knock down the doors of law abiding Americans to confiscate firearms.

  13. Yeah, we should replace Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF). ATF makes for a better convenience store than government agency.

    • TOKLAT31415,

      Yes! All the necessities in one place.

      “Hey Honey, I’m going to drive out to the ATF to pick up some Bourbon, chaw, and ammo. Would you like to join me?”

  17. “these products unmistakably intend to affect the structure or function of the body,” Noah concluded.

    Clearly s sociopath who can only think of guns in terms of shooting people. Red-flag the psycho.

  18. I don’t think “clearly” means what he thinks it does.

    Does the FDA regulate cars? No. And guns are heavily regulated already as cars are but no one thinks the FDA should regulate cars because they cause harm or changes to people kineticly.

    But I’m not a Marxist looking for a way around the constitution

  19. “These skin-darkening devices clearly serve primarily a cosmetic purpose, but fall under the FDA’s  “device” authority because it has the ability to affect the structure or function of the body while also being an instrument.”

    So is the sun related by the FDA?

  20. No, it does not truly fit the parameters. The purpose is to stop a life from unwelcome interference. It is not intended to affect the structure; it is intended to eliminate the life of the structure, if they do NOT cease interfering. Harm is certainly involved in the equation, but you do NOT use a firearm (and ammo) to alter a life with the expectation of pre-determined results. I’m sure someone will debate that, stating I just pointed out the pre-determined results. The only consistency would be: No harm due to no firing, or death. Anything in between would be inconsistent altering, without pre-determined results. Whether this was a joke or not, it would be a joke to even consider this.

  21. I have a problem with the first 3 letter agency can’t to its job right. What do you think the second will work out

  22. “For other skeptics who Noah said may argue that Congress should handle this issue and not the FDA, Noah responds by saying that Congress had their chance — and they “responded in a chaotic fashion” with disjointed state regulation and differing purchase rules.” …Because Congress is subservient to the permanent bureaucracy.

    Says: “[University of Florida law professor Lars] Noah”

    SMH…You can’t make this sh*t up!

  23. I’m sorry but I got sidetracked wondering if the carpet matches the drapes… in color and volume?

  25. Hardly shocking. If you torture law, regulation or logic far enough you can regulate virtually anything under the auspices of any agency.

    Got a cavity filled with a porcelain filling ground by an automated lathe and stuck into the tooth with dental adhesive? There’s dust from the grinding and vapors from the adhesive that both end up in the air. We’d better have the EPA regulate dentistry under the Clean Air Act.

    This kind of thing is going to get depressingly commonplace and increasingly stupid but there is literally zero reason to bother pointing it out. The people doing it care about the power. They do not care how ridiculous their actions have to be to get the power.

    If nothing else they’ll claim the power, exercise it and by the time you get a court to slap their pee-pee for this a bunch of companies will be out of business. Rinse and repeat until the attrition rate hits 100%.

  26. Might as well form a comprehensive new Federal agency in charge of everything and call it KMA or GFY.

  27. Before adding to the tasks of the FDA, let’s first first determine if they are PROPERLY regulating Food and Drugs.

    • If “properly” means denying experimental treatments to patients on their deathbeds because the new drugs might hurt them, then yes, it’s regulating drugs properly.

  29. Thats all well and good….but does the FDA have the manpower to enforce those rules? I don’t think so! So, when do we start the ACTUAL insurrection??? Asking for a friend.

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