“A trooper stopped a new Toyota Tundra on Saturday because the driver was using a cellphone while driving,” delmarvanow.com reports. “What Cpl. T. Bean found was a vehicle loaded with more than a dozen guns and a New Hampshire driver prohibited from buying or possessing them in the state of Maryland.” That last bit almost makes it sound like the driver – with 17 guns! – was a prohibited person, generally. This too: “Darren Paul Seik, 29, was taken into Maryland State Police custody and charged with possession of regulated firearms, a rifle and shotguns by a person prohibited, as well as related offenses.” Not a bit of it . . .
The suspect told authorities he was transporting the weapons through Maryland en route to a new residence in Virginia.
I suspect that this was indeed the case. At the risk of profiling, A Live Free or Die resident driving a Toyota Tundra through The Free State (no really) is just the sort of person who wouldn’t think to check Marlyland’s gun laws while traveling to Virginia.
More importantly, what crime was Darren Paul Seik committing – other than transporting firearms? Crickets chirping.
So the man’s life will be ruined because he was operating under the assumption that Maryland respected his natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms. Or that the Safe Passage provision of the Firearms Owners Protection Act had him covered, even though his guns were not.
This is the result of all gun control laws: they threaten the freedom of otherwise law-abiding Americans. While their supporters say gun laws prevent firearms-related crimes, does that even matter? Once again, as Bruce Krafft points out, gun rights are subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.
Well they shouldn’t be. Until that’s true across the length and breadth of this great country – and on the island chain of Hawaii – the fight for firearms freedom will never end.
Exactly why wasn’t he covered by the Safe Passage Provision?
Because no one (allowed by the people to perform the role of public servant) cares about what the law says anymore, just what they interpret it to be. I would like to think that the police are generally good people, but they are revenue making tools of the control state. The only thing “trickle down” in this country anymore is distain for the free, minds his own damn business, common man. Straight down from the Head Hussain himself, they fear people who don’t think like they do: that they know better and the masses owe them allegiance.
/end rant
Sorry, but these stories make my blood boil, if you can’t tell.
The police are told to make the arrests for political reasons. A guy I knew had this happen to him in Washington DC. Guess what? He beat the charges thanks to it.
Does safe passage cover firearms and accessories that are not legal in the state one drives through?
Yes, the law states that if the guns are legal in the beginning and ending states then they are covered by FOPA.
Yes. However you have to follow the FOPA rules:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926A
I’m no lawyer, but this law depends on the vague phrase “readily accessible.”
From the article it sounds like the firearms were in the back seat. Per FOPA – if you don’t have a trunk, you would need them all locked up in some sort of case. That would be very expensive to have a locked hard case for each of his 17 or whatever number of firearms. Also, 17 hard cases may not fit in the cab of a tundra.
Anyway. Typical gun law. It looks according to this – you are protected if you transport all 17 in the bed of the truck but in the cab they must be locked up in cases.
Sounds ridiculous:
Loose guns in the truck bed – not locked up – ready to steal at the next truck stop –> Protected by FOPA
Guns zipped up in soft cases inside the cab of a truck with the truck being lockable. –> not protected by FOPA.
FOPA does not cover magazines or accessories.
You don’t suppose that has anything to do with the passage of laws against magazines, accessories, and ammo, do you? None of which has ever been used to assault, rob, or kill anyone by itself? But as a way around a federal law you don’t like, they might be wonderful!
“Safe Passage” talks about transportating through a state. It requires the guns be unloaded and not accessible. In a Tundra, the guns, if in the cab, would have to be locked in a container. All 17 guns. My bet was the guns were not secured. Then there’s the ammunition issue.
That’s right. The solution is simply to dump all your ammo and guns just loose in the truck bed – sliding back and forth while you drive, uncovered and unlocked.
Congratulations… you are now protected by FOPA.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926A
Its too bad the Feds don’t enforce that part of FOPA with the same vigor they do the Hughes Amendment. If they did, these MD cops would be picked up by U.S. Marshals for FOPA violations.
They didn’t pull him over because he was talking in his cell phone. Who would believe that line? They pulled him because he had an out of state plate.
I can believe they pulled him over for driving while talking on cell phone in hand. It is illegal in MD and DC. I am continually amazed by how many people I see doing it in those areas, however.
I am with you brother. Talking on the phone while driving totally gives the police the right to shred the Constitution. What this country really needs is more laws so that the police have more pretexts to stop and search people.
Except for the cops I see talking on their cell phones at a rate exceeded only by teenaged girls.
$100k mega-cruiser and no Bluetooth? Sounds like that phone may not be an actual necessity after all. Or maybe they get special training on “tactical driving while domestically distracted”?
Those pesky little laws are never applied to the police. Hell out in california we’ve been calling them the CHP the CHK (California Highway Knights) for years.
These guys are no more than the latest incarnation of the low nobility of the middles ages. They are free to do as they wish and we are free to pay the taxes.
Driving on the phone is a primary offense in MD – they can pull you over for that.
I understand that. However, it is the excuse, not the reason.
Sometimes its targeting, sometimes its coincidence. Although this just sounds like an asshole cop.
Which is hilarious, seeing how those same cops drive with a cell phone / radio in one hand or using the damn in-car laptop while driving. What’s the police motto again? Oh yeah, “Rules for thee, not for me”.
Down in this neck of the woods, we have had several incidents involving cops running over kids on bikes and getting into accidents because they were looking at their console mounted computer screens.
It is against the law to talk on your phone while driving.
However I couldn’t find any law against eating a sandwich with both hands while driving with your kneecap.
Legislating responsibility – or so they think.
Way back when I drove to work every day, I saw many people applying makeup with both hands (mirror in one, mascara in the other) while driving, every day. I suppose that was necessary because cell phones had not yet been invented.
Because the NRA National Restaurant Association would complain. Just kidding! Actually your attention is more in your car when eating a sandwich while driving with your knees than talking on a cell phone. In MD the weavers are the women, sorry, texting or talking on their cells. Since that law was passed its a lot safer. Well, there are the people that laws can’t fix. Not their driving or common sense.
Yet, the cops still talk on their phones while driving.
It would take less than 15 seconds to prove or disprove the accusation. Every phone keeps a record of calls, as do the carriers.
So what?
If the stop (and subsequent search) was initiated under fake pretenses, athe search can be vacated, and any evidence found therein vacated as well. MD would have no case to make.
I saw no claim that he was not on the phone.
That would be a start but it doesn’t prevent the court from ruling “no harm, no foul… the officer reasonably believed the driver to be on the telephone because…” and allow the evidence from the stop. If the judge believes, or wants to believe, that the officer acted in good faith then the 4th is screwed for that case.
Recently there was a FL resident traveling to or from NJ and he was pulled over by the MD tunnel police.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/01/16/driving-through-maryland-how-the-lawful-florida-gun-owner-was-targeted-hint-maryland-coordination-and-analysis-center/
Cop saw the plate and figured his chances were good he had a FL CCW, The guy did but left his pistol at home. It was a long stop with him and his family separated in different PD cruisers and gestapo interrogation. After totally dumping his belongings, they finally let him go. Sorry but LEO’s do grab low hanging fruit and go on fishing expeditions. They need to justify their activities on the shift. The good ones use common sense and treat people fine. Then you get the idiots who go letter of the law on technical violations. Sad
The Florida guy you mentioned really didn’t do anything wrong. The gestapo officer just knew he had a gun in the car somewhere. They are supposed to be able to just run Florida plates and know if Floridians have a ccw license since the DL and license plates aren’t linked. This suggests that DHS has linked all that info from Florida.
If only he had made it here to VA. I won’t set foot in Maryland if I can help it.
I now travel to see my son in Minnesota through Louisville instead of Pennsylvania. It is 200 miles farther but I can travel through every state with a loaded gun in my car. Even Illinois allows out of state permit holders to have a pistol in the glove compartment. I am going to have to transport my guns to La Crosse Wisconsin in a couple of months. Maryland won’t be seeing me.
Illinois allows OOS permit holders to CC on their person, but only in their car.
On your person or in the glove box. It has to be locked in your car if you stop and get out.
False. Illinois does not accept any out of state CCW permit.
IL lost a different court case a few years prior to its loss in the CCW court case. It deemed the glove box to be a gun case. I don’t know if that has been fully tested in any subsequent cases, so I would assume it needs to be unloaded/unchambered to be kosher.
Steve is correct, Kellen is wrong. Illinois does allow out-of-state CCW permit holders to carry concealed, loaded handguns in their vehicles.
Kellen, why do you believe this to be untrue? Read 430 ILCS 66/40(e). Non-residents who are allowed to carry in their home state can do so in Illinois within their vehicles.
Just out of curiosity, why avoid Pennsylvania? They have reciprocal ccl’s with a lot of states.
Because you need to go through MD to get to PA from VA.
So wait I’m confused. Why wouldn’t FOPA cover him? Or is MD just ignoring FOPA again?
I imagine they could treat FOPA as an “affirmative defense” like in NY – arresting you first and then settling it in front of a judge.. But FOPA should still protect him. Right? (sigh.)
Do we have another Brian Aitken on our hands now?
Although this last tidbit is encouraging:
“He was not in jail Sunday afternoon, and the circumstances of his release were unclear.”
Let’s hope the “circumstances” were that you’re allowed to drive firearms through a state when moving without fear of the local Gestapo throwing you in jail due to local laws, and a local judge set the ill-informed officer straight.
Either way, it’s discouraging that our friends in the New England free states (VT/NH/ME) have to cross the evil moat of statism (MA/NY/NJ/MD) to get to the rest of the country.
I’d love to move from VA to NH or Maine, but I’m not sure exactly how I’d get there. 😛
I’m going the other way shortly, NH to GA, and have the same concerns. I will be driving a rental truck so the plate won’t be a red flag, but I’m still kind of nervous.
Ship them to an FFL.
That’s not the way a free man operates.
You should not have to freaking do that.
Think about what you just said. “Ship your personal, legally owned property to a FEDERALLY LICENSED person” just for moving from one state to another.
This, friends, is why we can NEVER stop fighting.
Shipping via FFL will require completing the same paperwork as a purchase, at the receiving end, I believe.
You don’t even have to use a FFL. You can legally ship yourself firearms. People do it when hunting in a different part of the country all the time. Just make sure that your name is the addressee or the addressee “in care of xxxxx” and that you are the person that opens the package.
There’s no path from NH that avoids NY, NJ, MD, and MA. If willing to drive through the Daks and PA you can avoid NJ, MA, and all but a sliver of MD.
The lesson that I learned from this is do not stop. Just keep going. Except for NY, those states are pretty small, just step on the gas and try to make it across the boarder before they break out the spike strips. You can always turn yourself in after you have your guns safely secured.
If they’re in the back of the rental truck, you should be good under FOPA. I’m assuming it’s a box truck of course. They’d be secure and you would be able to have them stored safely in the back away from the prying eyes of the local gestapo in the event of an unlawful search.
Make sure they have to move a washer & dryer, fridge etc. to get to them.
Just drive the speed limit and use signals when changing lanes. Drive the way you are suppose to and they should leave you alone.
“Just drive the speed limit and use signals when changing lanes. Drive the way you are suppose to and they should leave you alone.”
Not necessarily. I was once pulled over (out of state plates) for not using my turn signal *long enough* when changing lanes. I was carrying at the time, and passed the officer my CHL along with my driver’s license. He apparently was just checking us out to ensure we weren’t smuggling illegals. Acted very polite, and the stop ended. (I also had several firearms in locked cases per the FOPA, but didn’t mention them. )
Shouldn’t have been stopped, but things didn’t go downhill, either.
Not necessarily. Just the other day we had someone post here that they were pulled over for suspicious behavior because they were obeying all traffic laws and were NOT speeding while others around him were.
Lock the guns in the truck, and refuse to unlock the truck without a warrant!
FOPA requires the firearms to be unloaded and secured in a locked container. So if they’d been in his trunk, or if they’d each been in a locked case, it would be fine, but since he had them loose and in the open, the firearms in question weren’t protected under it.
Not that it should matter, but that’s the letter of the law.
We don’t know what happened. He might have had 17 cased guns in the bed of the truck, the cop could see he had guns, and off we go. Not legal, but he can prove that in court for a hundred grand or so.
He would have been protected by FOPA if instead of having those firearms in a lockable cab he put them loose in the bed of the truck uncovered and not locked in any container. Just pour loose ammo back there too. Have it all slide around back and forth in the truck bed – then FOPA would have protected him:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926A
Sounds like a good Supreme Court Case, would send a strong message. Imagine if it were someone driving from Seattle to Denver with a baggy of pot? The media would be burning those cops at the stake.
Sounds like a good wrongful arrest lawsuit. Give this man a million dollar check courtesy of the good Maryland taxpayers and maybe they’ll learn to respect federal law if not the Bill of Rights.
@ Gov
“Give this man a million dollar check courtesy of the good Maryland taxpayers and maybe they’ll learn to respect federal law if not the Bill of Rights.”
Wishful thinking. Unfortunately, I doubt “they” (police dept) would learn or care since the taxpayers are footing the bill.
Now if the officer had to pay from his funds…..
Let their union pay. Maryland can’t possibly tax enough rain water (yes, they really do) to pay off civil suits.
“…the fight for firearms freedom will never end.”
Can we just call it Freedom of Arms? Because the second an affordable plasma rifle hits the market I’m buying the sonofabitch and I don’t want somebody claiming the 2nd Amendment only protects firearms. Similarly, when will I be able to be fashionably equipped with a dashing but hefty short sword once again? I have a Katzbalger that goes nicely with my Converse.
I think you Plasma Rifle will be able to start fires, so I think you’re still covered.
You’re only allowed one in the 10W range. 40W range is totally unacceptable.
If the plasma rifle is less than 40-watts, it’s not a real plasma rifle.
40W is just a stupid compromise for insecure people. Narrow beam highly concentrated 35.7W is where its at, plus you can use the cheaper fat 38W coils for practice.
45W has better stopping power, though… *ducks*
Don’t you mean 45 Super Watt, or .460R Watt? 😀
*retreats to solid cover*
You guys are hilarious. You’ve just transported a gun forum argument about “firepower” back from the future. Nice.
On a more serious note, many states have some pretty damn restrictive and irritating knife laws. I find it infuriating that I’m allowed to carry a firearm concealed, but that I’m not given the same right with anything more than a small pocket knife.
Yeah, that’s one of the things that gets my goat about Ohio… pretty good about firearms in general but sucks for any edged
weapontool.Since childhood, I’ve wanted to be able to occasionally wear an M1917 naval cutlass, sort of like a BBQ gun, but legally can’t here.
http://www.thetruthaboutknives.com/
Try TX. One of the very few things I learned from CHL classes was no, the license does not give you special permission to carry a knife, but pocketknives are currently limited to a 5 1/2″ blade. I had to confirm that twice. Have you ever held a Cold Steel 5″ folder? Feels like a machete. I grew up with a restriction of 3″.
I love my XL G10 Espada. The pocket sword is one hell of a conversation piece. It’s also well over the 3.5 inch limit down in Charlotte.
NC’s knife laws vague and frustrating though. I’ve got a veritable collection of blades that are all perfectly useful tools that have to be handled carefully, especially with our lack of preemption.
If it is fully automatic, you still have to get that tax stamp.
+1
I had to go to Balt. this summer to catch a cruise ship. Cost me $12.00 in tolls to get the hell out of that armpit of a state.
Money well spent for the exit.
Thank currently unemployed former Gov. OweMalley. He wants to ruin the entire country next.
Cruise ships: another place where your right to keep and bear arms is routinely denied.
Is that right? Nobody really told me, on five separate cruises I had a loaded gun in my room. What was I gonna do, leave it in my parked car for a couple weeks? I mean, I didn’t carry it on shore excursions, but I think that would be kinda, uh, shtupid. Now that I think of it, I never noticed a prohibition against carrying a coupe large bottles of booze with us, either.
Glad you got away with it. Typical rule is no weapons allowed on board ship.
From www_dot_cruisereviews_dot_com/cruise-tips/tips-for-beginners/can-i-bring-a-weapon-on-a-cruise.html
All weapons are prohibited on cruises due to cruise ship security regulations. Guns are not allowed, with or without a concealed carry permit. Attempting to bring a gun on a cruise ship may result in severe legal penalties. Knives of any type are prohibited. You also should not attempt to bring mace or other pepper sprays onboard. Cruise terminals are equipped with security scanners that will alert security personnel to the presence of weapons. In addition to weapons, there may be some restrictions on other sharp objects, like scissors or tweezers, because of TSA regulations.
Most cruise ships are foreign registered as well.
The article says he has been released. My bet is he lawyered up and they let him go due to the safe passage provision. That being said he will likely need to start his collection from scratch. This is why va needs to override our governor’s veto of sb948, to prevent MD from harassing chl holders as they have been known to do.
Bullsh!t like this is why FOPA had to be passed. And yet the Soviet states still ignore it just so they can make an example out of any poor sap who gets caught on his or her way to greener pastures.
Soviet States!!
LOL
“… any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console”
Does this mean 1 firearm only applies to this? (transport a firearm)
Hope he goes free, is he supposed to teleport to his new home or what?
Read it again carefully. Looks like it means that if you transport loose guns, cartridges, ammo, just sliding around back and forth, rolling around in your truck bed uncovered, unprotected, and unlocked, you are protected by FOPA.
What’s so bad is that even if it is just ammo you have, it must be in a locked container also. Must be to prevent you from throwing those dastardly .22 rounds at someone. Really though, if’s just plain asinine to lock up ammo in order to transport it in the cab of a pickup. Unfortunately, I must travel the length of western MD when I make my monthly sojourn to the doctor. I lock up my sidearm in one box and the UNLOADED mags in another locked box. If in my car, they both then go into the trunk. In my Durango, one box goes under one floor panel and the other under the 2nd floor panel. As soon as I cross the line on either I68 or I70, I pull over, get my stuff out and load up.
Fucking liberal air thieves.
I am sure glad they included ammunition in things not allowed within the driver’s reach. I can imagine some defenseless cop assaulted by a driver throwing bullet after bullet at him. Who makes these laws? Are they deliberately stupid? And I know some state include ammunition components in their terrifying prohibited items. “Stop where you are! Give me all your money and drugs or I shall toss this .22 short shell casing at you, forthwith. Forsooth!”
yep i avoid maryland if at all possible.
but i have CCW for the vast majorty of the country. nj , ny dont like to follow reciprocity so you need to get a few. NJ 99.99999% will never get a CCW. the laws here are insane.
If we get national reciprocity passed, the NJ residents will not stand for others carrying when they can’t. It is the best way I know to force them to change their laws.
Why would you think that? They seem to be willing to “stand for” a lot worse than that, already.
Whether National Reciprocity has a swift and directly-related impact on the laws of the Won’t-Issue States is hard to predict. I’m going to assume that the Won’t-Issue States will dig-in their heels.
Let’s see what happens. Observe that MD is a geographically small State surrounded by Delaware and Virginia which are both Right-to-Carry States. MD is going to experience a fair amount of inter-state traffic by concealed carriers under NR.
NJ is a pretty large State bordering PA and DE which are both Right-to-Carry States. Again, a fair amount of inter-state traffic by concealed carriers under NR.
The residents of such States will begin to become aware of carry in their midst by out-of-State visitors. Over the years, they will become inoculated.
The most aggressive among them will go to the effort to establish a token residency in a Right-to-Carry State. Get a mailing address, a driver’s license and a resident CWP. They will carry in the slave-State with a plausible excuse that they are entitled under NR. DAs might try to persecute some of these scoff-laws; but, this will be expensive. It will require the DA to investigate the carrier’s claim to residency in another State. It might require the DA to prove that the carrier is also a resident of the slave-State. Such cases might be easily dragged into Federal courts where the slave-State has less control over the outcome. Eventually, I suspect, the slave-States will tire of litigating this battle and give-up pursuing such cases.
Ultimately, the important outcome, will be that the voters in the slave-States will realize that law-abiding gun carriers are not a threat. That will defuse the gun-control issue nationally. The slave-States might continue to treat their own citizens use of guns harshly; but, the back-lash politically will grow against the gun controllers.
Damn communist state; MD is getting as bad as NJ for ignoring FOPA and screwing over honest lawful gun owners. I hope they go down and it costs them huge in the courts.
The guy was an idiot for:
1) talking on his cell phone while driving
2) talking on his cell phone while driving in Maryland, which it is a primary offense.
Honest to God, some people just beg for trouble.
You are assuming he was actually talking on a cell phone. I wonder if his call records correspond to the police claim. I no longer give the police in totalitarian states the benefit of the doubt in this type of case.
In any case, this seems like a straightforward federal lawsuit. The nice thing about these states is that they tend to be bankrupt, and every little push to Detroitize them is a blow for freedom.
Have proof to back up that he was talking on his cell phone and driving? Or was his crime more along the lines of having out of state plates?
Cops would never lie.
He probably was on his phone. Otherwise they would have detected a suspicious marijuana odor as he sped by.
omg, I love this blog.
He may have had a taillight out.
It’s ridiculous how hysterical people get over talking on a cell phone while driving. I can talk on a cell phone just fine, just like I can drink coffee, carry on a conversation with a passenger or eat a sandwich. 51 years old and I’ve never been in an accident where I was at fault. Never been in an accident while doing any of the aforementioned things. I can chew gum and walk at the same time, too.
That picture above looks like West Point cadets getting ready to go die on foreign soil. God I hate the militarization of our police. Whatever happened to “To serve and protect”?
Dude, what are you talking about? They’ve had the same uniform since the 1950s.
hahaha
wait, you’re joking, right?
Clueless – those uniforms look nothing like the uniforms at WooPoo.
Modeled on the snazzy attire of the Brownshirts of 1930 Germany – Yes.
LOL!!
This is what happened to Protect & Serve: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
They have been chipping away at the law for a long time eroding our rights with unconstitutional law. What you are about to/have read there, is simply the tip of the iceberg. Or, more succinctly, the tip of the polar cap.
For fun and profit; give read to the entirety of the Patriot Act, NDAA 2012 (as it passed, not the later SCOTUS neutered version), and Homeland Sec. Act if you really want to give yourself some jolly good nightmares. There’s plenty more ofc, Roadside Interdiction, & others. Those named above are a very good start though, and should keep you occupied for a bit concerning the law currently in violation of the BoR, as well as several articles of the Constitution to say the very least.
The amusing part, is how extremely broad the wording & definitions used are.
A damn shame SCOTUS can’t be proactive and thrown the whole NDAA out on Congress’s collective ass. There is as must unConstitutional crap in the NDAA as Obama has been doing with all of this Exec Orders.
Someday it will suddenly become obvious that the SCOTUS can do whatever they like, by “interpreting” the constitution to authorize it. Then “Executive orders” will suddenly become cause for impeachment and execution, and we’ll have done away with that problem in exchange for another.
You don’t have to have a drivers licence for every state you drive in. Do you? WE are ‘Citizens ” of the United States of America and have rights under the Constitution however driving is not a right and are only required to have a valid drivers license from the state you are a “resident” in. F U B A R ! ! !
It has been mentioned before… driving i.e. the right to travel via the common method of the day, is a right. Even prior to automobiles, professional coach operators had to be licensed, but not persons not operating for commerce.
As the auto became popular, govrrnment conspired with banks and insurers to coerce most people into needing licenses. It is a contractual obligation, that can be avoided. Driving is a right.
Can you see the parallel with the CCW/CPL. concept? Commercial carriers can be mandafed licensing criteria, for personal use your right should be sufficient.
Spot on, as usual. 🙂
Javier, back in the day, like 1940s, you did in fact have to have license plates, drivers license, registration, etc, from whatever state you were presently in. Congress addressed that part within their jurisdiction with the “Soldiers’ and Sailors’ Relief Act” of some year or another, before which the military was regularly targeted and persecuted into paying out the big bucks. Pressure was brought to bear in secret ways as well, and eventually the practice went away. But you speak like “of course no one would question that!”, but yes, they did. Power and control are addictive, particularly to bullies. We’re seeing it again.
This is a clear violation of FOPA. So tell me again how cops are not the bad guys?
Cuz the cop went home that night? And no dogs were harmed (that we know of) in the making of that traffic stop?
Sorry. I really got nothing.
Seems to me that the driver was in violation of the terms of FOPA. If the guns were not locked up or inaccessible to him then he is in violation, isn’t he? Seems clear to me. The driver is an idiot for talking on his cell phone while driving. Bluetooth devices are not that expensive and much less expensive than guns and accessories for them. I don’t understand why more people don’t just buy and use them. Driver is also not very bright for not looking at the firearm laws in the states he was traveling through and at FOPA to make sure he was in compliance. He does not deserve to have all of his weapons confiscated if, indeed, he was not transporting them illegally. But he probably does deserve some sort of reasonable fine for what he did. I hate it when I see people talking on their cell phones while driving. Many of them drive too slow, weave around or sit at stop lights way too long after the light changes while they fiddle with their phones. Very dangerous IMO.
“…probably does deserve some sort of reasonable fine for what he did…”
Laws are intended to codify rules against behaviors that actually cause harm. Can you identify the harm in his actions? If not, then he doesn’t “deserve” anything. He’s a victim of an unjust law.
. . . “he probably does deserve some sort of reasonable fine for what he did . . . ” Let’s examine this statement. What did he do?
– talking on a hand-held phone while driving; and,
– transporting unloaded guns not contained in hard cases while accessible to him in the cab of his truck.
Which behavior is dangerous to the public? Perhaps a reasonable (not necessarily compelling) argument can be made that holding a cell phone to his ear is enough of a distraction from controlling his vehicle that it constitutes a danger to others. Transporting unloaded guns in soft (not hard) cases while accessible; I don’t see the danger.
So, he gets a “reasonable” fine for the actual danger but faces felony charges for the non-dangerous activity!
We are in a political fight between the Pro-rights vs. the Anti-gun activists. The uncommitted and gun-control sympathetic voters hold the key to victory for one side vs. the other.
We Pro-rights activists would like to persuade the uncommitted and GC-sympathetic voters to wipe the law-books clean of all gun laws. As a political matter, how likely are we to convince these uncommitted / sympathetic voters to see things clearly OUR way?
Let’s try another tack. Suppose we point out the disproportionate treatment of this guy who gets a fine for talking on his cell phone but faces multiple felony counts for transporting unloaded guns in a manner that is not-quite-as-prescribed. It shouldn’t be hard to convince uncommitted / sympathetic voters to see the lack of proportionality here. Let’s ask these voters: ‘Doesn’t it make sense to de-criminalize non-violent violations of laws concerning carrying or transporting guns?’
Let’s suppose – for the sake of pursuing this idea of de-criminalization – that there are better vs. worse ways to carry/transport guns. E.g., it’s better for a 2A-able person to carry with a CWP vs. carry without having first acquired a CWP. It’s better for a 2A-able person to transport in a less-accessible condition than a more-accessable condition. It should suffice to impose a reasonable fine on 2A-able violators who neglect to obtain a CWP or neglect to transport in the prescribed inaccessible condition. Such 2A-able gun owners will endeavor to comply with such laws under the modest threat of a fine.
Such an argument is apt to appeal to uncommitted – GC-sympathetic voters. They are apt to begin to think about what they want to accomplish with gun-control laws. They won’t leap immediately to zero-tolerance for all gun laws. They are much more likely to start a process of “detente” vis-a-vis gun laws.
Beginning-to-think about gun-control is a positive step. Abruptly turning-off a voter’s attention is a negative step. We need to think about how to meet the uncommitted / GC-sympathetic voter’s mind where it is at the moment if we are going to win him over.
“Driver is also not very bright for not looking at the firearm laws in the states he was traveling through and at FOPA to make sure he was in compliance.”
I have been guilty of that so many times I can’t count, given I have driven through every state in the lower 48, most of them a dozen times or more, and I ALWAYS carried. My research consisted of rereading 2A, then starting the car. I could read that 2A protected an individual right by 1965, the fact that SCOTUS didn’t get around to ruling on that question for nearly 50 more years doesn’t bother me, no one had even asked the question for 175 years before that. No, you cannot search my car without a warrant. I am recording this conversation. No I will not stop recording it, and I want to speak to your supervisor. I am calling 911. No, I will not step out of my car, I want you to call for another officer. And on and on. However, none of that ever happened, never a problem. Makes me think that either things are going downhill, or some people are making fools of themselves when they should be keeping a low profile.
So the lesson here? Don’t use your cell phone while you’re driving…especially in Maryland…when you have a carload of firearms.
The lesson here is don’t go to Maryland. Don’t spend a dime there. Don’t let family spend a dime there. Don’t order off the Internet from companies based in MD.
Choke ’em.
FIFY.
The bad news: FOPA, as quoted above, requires firearms in a vehicle like a Toyota Tundra, a “…vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment…” that the “…firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container…” According to the article, “The trooper said several guns were in view…” which doesn’t sound like there were “contained in a locked container.”
The good news; “He was not in jail Sunday afternoon, and the circumstances of his release were unclear.” Sounds like he was arrested, and then when he got before a magistrate the figured out he was passing through and released him without charging him.
Did he get his property back?
That’s funny.
What did that cop say to mk1010 –
“Are you transporting any firearms, drugs, or large sums of money?”
Civil asset forfeiture.
Thou shalt not steal (unless you are a government official – then stealing/theft is ok)
What a sick state. What sick jack booted bored uneducated useless thug police too.
Yea, you will never catch me in a slave state.
Funny how nearly all the slave states these days are north of the Mason-Dixon line (except CA and Hawaii).
…and Maryland is South.
Lol, well, darn. I was thinking it ran between Maryland and Virginia. Shoulda looked it up. 🙂
Not any more.
Not really. They weren’t in The Confederacy.
To illustrate my above post:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1362860716_M-d-line.gif
To be protected you have to have the guns secured in a particular way. I wonder if that was the issue.
Your assignment is to go read the Declaration of Independence and then re-read what you just wrote.
Accepting shackles willingly is still being shackled.
Too right. The sad thing is: if they don’t feel the jack boots on their necks, most have willfully convinced themselves that those boots don’t exist. Playing the ostrich with their heads buried in the sand somehow works for many.
Or, mayhap that’s just the face they put on in public? Idk *shakes head sadly*
“if they don’t feel the jack boots on their necks” is exactly the problem. We are all – understandably – focused on our own families, homes, work, hobbies, etc. At most, some of us can pay attention to the politics of our municipality and State. We are being myopic here.
This case illustrates how it is that a slave-State such as MD encroaches on our liberties no matter that most PotG live in free-States. Traveling through a slave-State he is victimized for a technical infraction while exercising a supposedly-Constitutionally-protected right.
We PotG have to wake-up to the fact that the handful of Won’t-Issue States hold a large fraction of the population; and, therefore, a large fraction of the vote for Congressional Representatives and Presidents. Moreover, these Won’t-Issue States are failing financially. Hoplophobic voters from Won’t-Issue States migrate to free-States where they turn them purple.
The most important issue facing gun rights today is National Reciprocity. IF-and-when that bill passes we will begin to inoculate hoplophobes in the slave-States. Until then, hoplophobia will fester and breed and continue to threaten our rights in Congress and SCOTUS.
When non-violent felons have their 2nd A. rights restored the microsecond they walk out of prison, I’ll take this argument seriously. Until then… *yawn*
What part of their oath of office did they not understand?
Their oath is to serve legislators that empower them to be roving tax assessors and covered by judges interpreting in favor of the forfeiture Triad. All to supply revenue to engorged government.
Winner! Internet winner right here. And so true too – with no sugar coating. The system is a caramel candy coating over a putrid rotten apple.
All the BS stops and you get schooled quick being detain in IL for two hours, suspected of being a drug mule, despite multiple lines of evidence of who you are and what you do. Once your vehicle is profiled, check list procedures circumventing 4A are employed until revenue is generated, or submit to search. Your free to go when LEO is satisfied your law abiding.
Go to hell MD.
They should go to New Jersey?
We should be cautious about defending a potential criminal- according to the charges posted online, one is for possession of a (non-regulated) rifle or shotgun while being disqualified for mental health disability. There is an ammo possession charge too, and I think thats the same firearms disability. He was not transporting per FOPA so I dont think he covered. Maryland laws sure are silly, but i would not go out of my way to defend a prohibited person, or one dumb enough to transport guns uncovered like this. If he really is a prohibited person- and MD only requires the standard fed 4473 for long guns – he’d have been caught in any state.
Oh, and looks like hes out because he posted bond.
What is his “mental health disability”? It might be anything from being committed as a violent insane person as contrasted with a veteran who had a financial custodian appointed for him. If committed by a judicial action then I agree; he isn’t an ideal poster-child. Conversely, if he is a vet with a financial custodian then that makes him an even better poster-child.
You should only run afoul of the law because you “DO” something, never because you “have” something. He was bothering no one, even if he was talking on the phone. No one suggested he did anything unsafe insofar as his driving was concerned. He wasn’t shooting people. This network of ridiculous laws we are developing can snag anybody at any time, for nothing.
+1
Former Maryland resident here….Emphasis on Former. It’s one of the original 13 Colonies….They’ve had 500 years to figure out how to tax you to death. The police do not care one iota for your rights. Your job is to shut your mouth, obey the police, obey the political leaders and pay your taxes. Nothing else matters.
I strongly suspect the State Troopers used the Intelligence Fusion center to identify the driver as a gun owner. And then figured out an excuse to pull him over and check him out. This isn’t a conspiracy theory at all, they’ve already been caught doing this several times. In fact, google search on Baltimore Tunnel, Florida Concealed Carry arrest.
LOL. That’s right. Taxes are state mandated slavery. If you trade your labor for a product or a service are you really gaining anything? How is a trade income? I have come to the conclusion that Americans are all slaves. You are paying about 60% tax. That makes you 60% slave. Slavery by definition is being forced to work without pay. So you work – your master takes your money and distributes it as they please. If you don’t pay – you go to prison where 100% of your efforts are uncompensated. So your choices are: 60% slave, 100% slave, or leave to another nation (which are actually worse than this one)
the archaic laws in MD have affected me(minerly). I live in NoVa. I have a Va. issued CWP, and I carry. I have turned down promotions that would require me to move to MD. I often visit relatives in Pa. and I have to take a longer route rather that risk getting pulled over by the Md gestapo(522 from Winchester to Hancock where i am only in Md for 3.2 miles). I do not go to Ocean City, I go to the Outer Banks. I avoid Md at all costs, and thus avoid spending any money in MD(their loss).
Being pulled over for having a phone in your hand is even more ridiculous than being arrested for transporting your personal firearm assortment to a new home, but anyway.
Maryland is aptly named for the marys that run the land there.
“Maryland is aptly named for the marys that run the land there.”
Interwebz. You won them. Lol!
Md, NJ & NY can go EXPLETIVE DELETED themselves. I’ll never set foot in any of those states, for any reason.
Either there’s something we’re missing here or we should probably offer to sell Maryland back to Britain.
‘The trooper said several guns were in view…’ – If this is true, he was not only not protected by the Safe Passage provision, but should also be bitch-slapped for being stupid. Even so the judge should have lectured him on how to transport firearms under federal law and sent him on his way.
Personally I avoid any state that doesn’t recognize Iowa’s weapons carry permit like the plague. (Yea, I’m talking about you Minnesota.)
Never talk to the police, and guns in view invites a conversation.
MORE EVIDENCE of revenue generation by law enforcement through asset forfeiture. He should have been cited for the infraction then allowed to go. Trip to station, lawyer to get guns back, possible bail, pay a fine. LEO’s fishing for coin.
Was the officer drug interdiction? Was he asked about armaments? Skirt around 4A.
The inability of the officer to exercise good judgement and only task complete is a complete fail.
That’s cute, you think he’s going to get his guns back. You’re adorable.
Thank you, I am adorable in a ruggedly handsome sorta way.
The only way this guy will get his armament returned is Prosecutor says oops by requires an admin fine. Gut gets lawyer, wins case, finds out armament were destroyed, back to court, wins value of arms, hands over check from tax payers to his lawyer.
AFT. (Asset Forfeiture Triad). LEO’s in the trench, legislators creating the laws to empower LEO’s to circumvent 4A. Judges interpret laws eroding privacy. Prosecutors getting 10% of asset seized.
The moment drugs become legal, a very large multi branch industry will become unemployed.
Never just assume you can talk on the phone while driving. Here in New York state, for example, talking on the phone while driving (unless a hands-free phone) is illegal. And of course to never assume that you can just carry your guns through other states. One thing that I wonder is when moving with a supply of guns, would it be better to just mail them through an FFL or have some kind of special licensed business transport them?
Buy a nice big pelican case with customizable (pickable) foam. Customize for your guns. Repeat until you have nice, securable, hard cases around all of your guns. Padlock the cases with combination locks (I like Sesamee locks).
Put these in the u-haul first, up near the cab. Then pack the rest of your belongings in front of them.
Is it a perfect method? No. And I wouldn’t use it if my move didn’t include a do-it-yourself component. But depending on the size of your collection it will be no more expensive than using a gun shipping service, and you aren’t trusting them to a moving co. Let’s not even talk about how well / whether their insurance will cover theft or damage…
Yeah every damn thing is illegal in Illinois. Hard to believe it is now (somewhat) better than Maryland…My son and 3 grandkids live 10miles from Baltimore. He LOVES MD…we have a tenuous relationship at best and since he’s 40 I pretty much have given up telling him how much MD sucks. I have NO plans on visiting…
The core concept? And will someone answer that dang phone?!
You’re barking up the wrong tree here, Robert. Maryland State Police have to enforce the law. They have no discretion. And we wouldn’t want it any other way.
My ideal LEO is a robot, an android like Robocop or a Spock-like-entity, that did exactly what the legislature had ordered it to do. So that in the end we could only hold the lawmakers (aka our elected politicians) responsible for whatever consequence their lawmaking had.
Maryland State Police can’t be held responsible for this. If MD State Police is allowed to uphold and enforce only the laws – or the parts of the Bill of Rights – they agree with, indeed, if any law enforcement agency is granted that right, then we are staring into the abyss of anarchy, corruption and lawlessness.
Maryland State Police did what they had to do. It’s the law that must change. That is our responsibility.
Yeah, they are just following orders. The individual with the gun on his hip, directly threatening you with a ” your money or your life” choice cannot be held responsible for his own actions. It’s not in his discretion to be employed by a cabal of gangsters. He just enforces The Law.
Hey, that defense worked fine at the Nuremberg trials, right? What? It didn’t? Wow!
How many of them were wearing their SS uniforms at the Nuremberg trials? BTW some of them got hanged. Goering killed himself before they could hang him.
Are you kidding me!!! Are you a complete drone…. Jesus Christ!!! I guess some poor German had to operate the death camps. I guess slaves just had to be returned under the fugitive slave act.
Cops do have discretion, they don’t give each other speeding tickets, they don’t get arrested for violating the federal gun free schools act EVERY DAY.
They take an oath to uphold the constitution for a reason. It’s not just some BS people say to go though to motion to get a sweet pension and benefits.
At least the sheriff of Carrol County MD isn’t a mindless drone.
Sorry, but the founding principles and documents on which this country is based disagree entirely with your train of thought here. And I quote:
“The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and name of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the time of it’s enactment, and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it. No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law, and no courts are bound to enforce it.”
— 16 Am Jur 2d, Sec 177 late 2d, Sec 256
“All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void.”
—Marbury vs. Madison, 5 US (2 Cranch)
137, 174, 176, (1803)
“When rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them.”
—Miranda vs. Arizona, 384 US 436 p. 491
“An unconstitutional act is not law; it confers no rights; it imposes no duties; affords no protection; it creates no office; it is in legal contemplation, as inoperative as though it had never been passed.”
—Norton vs. Shelby County 118 US 425 p. 442
“No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it.”
—16 Am Jur 2nd, Sec 177 late 2d, Sec 256
“The Constitution is not neutral. It was designed to take the government off the backs of people.” — Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas
And finally, some voices from long ago weigh in…
“The more laws and order are made prominent, the more thieves and robbers there will be.”
— Lao Tsu
“The more corrupt the state, the more laws.”
— Tacitus, The Annals
A further good pair of points, one humorous but truthful:
“We can never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was “legal” and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was “illegal.””
— Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from Birmingham Jail (16 April, 1963)
“Can any of you seriously say the Bill of Rights could get through Congress today? It wouldn’t even get out of committee.”
— F. Lee Bailey
All entirely true; and, yet, until at least a majority of voters are prepared to protect and defend the principle of constitutionality, all those statements are for nought. And that is the source of our nation’s problems.
Voters prefer cafeteria-style constitutionality. They will support the 1A but not the 2A or the 4A. They don’t “get” that constitutionality doesn’t work that way.
Virtually all Senators and Representatives who run for re-election are re-elected. This, notwithstanding that popular approval of Congress is in the pits. When Americans start voting consistent with constitutional principles then there will be change. Unless and until that happens we will continue on the path we are on.
Agreed completely, aside from one small niggle which you’ve overlooked. You’ll get my lateral drift, I’m quite sure. 😉
Beautifully done, Raven. Thank-you for posting that.
Agreed!!!
Thank you JR. 🙂 *bows gratefully*
That’s quote of the day material, IMHO. Well done!
I would agree with you if, and only if, there were an equal application of the law to all. Elected “elite”, media tools, special interest groups, and we POTG as well. But that simply isn’t the case.
If this crap is what the MD police are supposed to do, they should run the whole bag of tricks past every legislator, and the governor, every single day, including the explanation that they are just following orders. And those individuals’ wives and children, as well. They do not, because they are complicit, jack booted thugs and cowardly bullies.
Being pulled over for a civil traffic violation is not probable cause for a vehicle search. Seik should have refused the search based on the Fourth Amendment. And should have refused to be booked.
Here’s an original thought, ship the guns via a FFL to your destination. Yes, it costs money but a lot less than an attorney and you keep your freedom. Yes I know you should not have to do this but let’s face the facts. In the liberal states you will be screwed if you transport the firearms.
This is why you don’t HAVE freedom in the liberal states…you agree to play by the wrong rules.
History of the American Revolution Fail. Sorry.
Interesting that a search of the Judiciary Case Search website shows no entry under his name at all, despite the fact that this arrest occurred on Saturday.
Due to other work issues, I live in MD. Trust me, you really do want to avoid traveling through the state, at least on 95. Out of state plates, and assuming for the sake of this discussion that it was clear he was using his phone without a hands-free device, I am not surprised he was stopped. Low hanging fruit. If in fact the guns were plainly visible, then shame on him for not covering them up or securing them to any eyes, law enforcement or otherwise.
Travel smart. FOPA will not prevent them from messing up your day, even if you beat the charge in court.
I lived in Maryland for a while. It’s actually pretty nice in many ways. But not the politics. I did not own a gun at the time so firearms policy was not relevant. But the tax policies! Another story. The way they approached home and car ownership was socialist, period. And the revenue trap law enforcement — worthy of a small town in the middle of nowhere. I learned how the speed traps worked and was successful avoiding them, but I saw many out of state cars pulled over. The MSP definitely target out of state cars. In that sense, the victim was a jerk, because he could have found out all their games by checking on the internet.
Victim blaming.
I remember driving through MA when I moved to NH. For the duration of the state I felt like I was smuggling a ton of cocaine or nuclear material.
Of course if I were in MA with the intent to murder, steal or otherwise rampage I would have had no such feeling.
I wonder how long a person can cause no harm to anyone, do nothing to violate the rights and liberties of those around him and yet be berated day in and day out by a government that calls you a monster, marginalizes your liberties, tracks you and registers you as if you were a rapist or pedophile before that person finally has enough?
Hey government, check out this neat website: stopbullying.gov.
I chuckled at that website link. Very ironic, isn’t it? Too bad that will never occur to them.
This is the kind of thing civil wars are made of.
I know, right?
Indeed.
And revolutions.
LOL – what will we call it? The “Tundra Revolution” or the “Tundra Rebellion”? Maybe just the “Truck Rebellion,” since the Tundra is a “foreign” truck (made in Texas)?
I really sincerely hope you people try and start a war over this minor incident. I think that would be hilarious.
Who exactly are “you people”? Constitution loyal Americans? Which one of the billions of violations of the rights of the people, which of these so-called minor incidents, is likely to be the last straw?
I feel sorry for your ilk, so spineless that you will stand for nothing, make excuses to rationalize your complicity in the demise of our republic, and demonize those that take offense at such actions.
And our new governor in PA just appointed the former head of the MD state police under O’Malley to be PA State Police Commissioner. The reception has not been warm. There has been a sh!tstorm over his wearing of the PA State Police uniform (without attending the academy) but this is the real issue that concerns me. I’m not sure when or if he will be confirmed by hopefully the animosity within the ranks will keep these tactics out of PA.
So MD has some SS looking uniforms as well. Not quite as SS looking as NJ, but still damn close.
SS Uniform:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7115/6880565432_1d9130ee93_z.jpg
Couldn’t he just mail his guns to his new resident
Sure. He COULD have done that.
Just like Paul Revere COULD have stayed home.
Or Rosa Parks COULD have walked instead of rode the bus.
I’m sure you get the idea…liberty is not about what you COULD have done.
These states all have the same weakness. Money! Vote with yours and stop supporting these draconian laws and authoritarian politicians. Just check the label on everything you buy. It’s a good start.
Let me see if I understand: The guy broke the law, got arrested, and…what?
Is the law stupid? You bet. Is this an example of police run amok? Sure. But there’s no excuse for not following the law, however stupid it may be, however ridiculous the police may be for failing to use discretion.
Perhaps the news story is that the guy didn’t get shot by the arresting officer – that seems to happen a lot these days, especially if the person isn’t white.
The law is beyond stupid. If you have actually been following the comments here and have not figured that out…never mind.
So far beyond “stupid” one might even say…I don’t know…UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
And therefore: That law itself is ILLEGAL.
If he was a MD resident you would have semblance of an argument. However, he is not. He was moving to a state south of there and was passing through. I am sure you know ever stupid ass law in every state you go through. The point of FOPA was to prevent this kind of nonsense.
Maryland isn’t a state.
If he had thrown a blanket or tarp over the guns would he have been good? They wouldn’t have been visible and so the cop wouldn’t have been able to search, right?
He would have been fine if he was in Md. to destroy.
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