ATF agents
(AP Photo/Tony Gutierrez)

 

Knock, knock…

As you are probably aware, our friends at the ATF have been busy little elves this holiday season. First they raided Polymer80 because they’ve decided that their Buy Build Shoot all-in-one 80% frame pistol build kit should now be considered a complete firearm. They reportedly confiscated customer lists.

Yesterday came news that BATFE sent their flying monkeys to Diversified Machine, makers of Form 1-ready suppressor kits. They reportedly confiscated everything, including customer lists.

There have also been reports of the ATF knocking on a few residential doors, looking for some of these items sold to retail customers. The question then becomes, if the ATF is at your door, and they’re asking you to surrender your property, what should you do?

Richard Hayes, an attorney with Walker & Taylor, suggests handling such a situation this way:

If you find yourself with ATF agents or law enforcement at your doorstep demanding to search or seize your gun collection, be polite, but don’t waive your rights. If they have a warrant, that’s one thing, but if not, say, ‘I want to help as much as possible, but have to speak to an attorney first.’

Do not consent to a search or seizure. The next step is critical; you should consult with an attorney immediately.

Got it? If they don’t have a warrant, don’t let anyone into your home, even if they flash a badge. Then get on the phone to your attorney as soon as possible.

If the people at your door have a warrant and confiscate any of your property, attorney Joshua Prince adds this:

Be aware that the agent may attempt to have you sign an ATF 3400.1 Form – Consent to Forfeiture or Destruction of Property and Waiver of Notice – which you should NOT sign under ANY circumstance. In the event that they ask you to sign an ATF 3400.1, inform them that the only ATF form you are willing to sign is an ATF 3400.23 – Receipt of Property and Other Items, as the ATF 3400.23 does not contain language, wherein you agree to the forfeiture/destruction of your property.

Prince also suggests taking photos of any items confiscated by the ATF. If you don’t already have a relationship with an attorney, there’s no better time to take care of that than right now.

 

 

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151 COMMENTS

    • I hope if ‘miner’ opens the door he makes a “sudden, furtive movement” and the ATF cures our troll problem for us…

      *snicker* 😉

      • What Should You Do If the ATF Knocks at Your Door?

        –> “walk out on the balcony and fire two shotgun blasts in the air.” – Joe Biden

        –> “If you want to keep someone away from your house, just fire the shotgun through the door.” – Joe Biden

        ^ Probably one of these should work fine!

    • The ATF actually came to my home some years ago, in response to an issue that (thankfully) turned out to be a paperwork mess-up on their end. But they do NOT simply walk up to your door to give you the option of ignoring them. That’s a bunch of hogwash.

      After staking out my house and watching my family’s patterns for a couple of days, the team of three Agents waited until I came home from work and approached me as I exited my car, positioning themselves to prevent me from entering my home. Two Agents with me in the driveway, and the third in my back yard in case I should somehow try to run that way(?!?).

      They only allowed me to enter my own home once I heard enough of their scare tactic bluster to realize they had their facts wrong, and I could prove my position by retrieving my own copies of the DROS and Bill of Sale paperwork. Seems they somehow “lost” their copies? Really?

      They accepted my explanation and eventually left without arrest or incident. But they were very purposeful to catch me when I was outside the house, instead of inside.

      • But they were very purposeful to catch me when I was outside the house, instead of inside.

        Tactics such as that would be extremely difficult in my area… surveillance takes time and if you sit in one spot for very long around here someone is going to knock on your window and ask you why you are lurking about in our neighborhood.. that plus the wetlands across the street (no houses) a 24 hour a day presence of activity and a plethora of surveillance cameras makes it pretty hard to be inconspicuous…. Man if they went through all that shit over some paperwork you must have some kind of baaaddddassss reputation, way to go.. I’m just going to take a wild guess that you don’t live in the South where people look out for one another..

      • One of my neighbors *did* walk up to their SUV and question them, and he later told me they threatened him with charges of interference if he said a word to me.

        I do not have a “badass” reputation…note that I said they somehow lost my DROS information on the gun in question (which I set straight by showing them my copy).

        And remember that this is CA.

        • And remember that this is CA.

          And that explains it all, including why your “neighbor” didn’t tell them to GFTS and say something any way… They would not get away with bullshit threats like that down here… My condolences, but there’s always the recall so you all can get rid of Gavin and crown another Liberal King of the Peoples Republic hoping he or she or (it, ze, zim, this, that or whatever) does things differently… Good luck with that

        • Well, at least if you would have done something crazy your new AG, Gascon apparently doesn’t plan on prosecuting anyone. Although, I’ll bet if you’re a regular law abiding citizen with a job, and you don’t have the proper skin color, he would probably be willing to make an exception! Since you’re a gun owner and apparently not some pinko liberal, you should consider moving to Arizona. Arizona is considered to be one of the most gun friendly states in the country. We don’t mind people like you moving here, it’s the people who move here from California because things are so screwed up there, and they vote for the same type of idiots they voted for there, that drive us crazy! That’s how Arizona, which used to be solid red, is now more like purple.

      • Why did they need to “catch” you outside your house? Seriously, how does that change things? “Catching” you outside your house doesn’t give them PC to detain you (from walking away and going inside your house.) It certainly doesn’t give them PC to arrest you. It doesn’t absolve them from having to get a warrant. They can’t keep you from going inside your house. And how is it different from “catching” you somewhere else in public? In this case you’re on your own private property. And you can still tell them to GTFO your property and don’t come back without a warrant – regardless of whether you’re standing on your porch or you’re standing in your living room. I must be missing something here.

        • I don’t know about other states, but in CA the entire “curtilege” of your property (the extent of your home, including yard and outlying areas within your legal possession or residence) is defensible against threats, but only the actual interior of your home itself (inside the entry door thresholds) is impassable to LE without a warrant. LE may be present on your driveway, yard, or porch if they claim reasonable suspicion without any warrant.

          In my case, I had a fully legal gun that had been purchased (grandfathered) before our AW roster was expanded (thanks to Dianne Feinstein) to include the make/model I owned. I had an online discussion with someone (on a gun forum) regarding my thoughts of possibly selling it, though no sale ever occurred and I never proceeded with it. The discussion alone was enough to trigger the LE bots that sweep all gun sites & forums (including TTAG, so always watch what you say here) and dispatch ATF agents to my residence for investigation.

          Never, ever become complacent and think your online posts are private. Those who visit TTAG and post threatening comments or illegal suggestions are just dumb.

      • You can still them that you don’t want to talk to them without a lawyer, and that if they don’t have av warrant, they’re trespassing, and you want them to leave your property. Don’t open your door (whether you’re outside or inside) until they’ve left.

    • I’m not going to try to give legal advice here, but here’s something you may want to do a little research on. Years ago I heard that technically, federal jurisdiction only applies on federal land and its territories but not on state land. In fact a major case in Wisconsin was won with this argument when they passed the federal law against blocking access to abortion clinics and five men violated this law. Arrested and charged under federal law, all of their cases got thrown out for lack of jurisdiction. If you remember that when the FBI initially came into existence, the agents were NOT allowed to be armed.

      The Feds claim a lot of their authority on the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution. But if you read it carefully you will see that it is a “conditional statement”. And what is that condition you might ask?

      The so called “Supremacy Clause” refers to Article VI, Section 2 of the Constitution but if you bother to read and understand the full text it says:
      “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” Did you get that? The phrase, “Which shall be made in pursuance thereof” makes that entire statement conditional. Because in order for the laws of the United States to be included under that umbrella of being considered the “supreme law of the land” those laws MUST BE MADE IN PURSUANCE THEREOF!!! The hierarchy of the “rule of law” remains and stands with the Constitution being the Supreme Law of the Land and with the laws of the United States under it but, with only those laws that are in harmony and not in conflict with the Constitution. They lie to us when they say U.S. law is supreme. Remember that it was the states that came first and that created the federal government. And so how can that which is created ever be greater than that which created it?

      And then even more important when speaking of the Right to keep and bear arms;
      Under the rules of contract law (which also applies to the Constitution as it too is a covenant) an amendment overrides and “supersedes” everything that came before it. If there are any conflicting terms between the original document and the amendment, it is the terms and the conditions contained within the amendment that always must and shall prevail. They rely on things like the Supremacy Clause and the Commerce Clause to attack our individual gun Rights with their unconstitutional laws… However, the Second Amendment (when invoked) overrides and supersedes any and all of their laws whereby they attempt to infringe on this Constitutionally protected Right. In committing these acts they are violating the very explicit and direct command directive of the Second Amendment that clearly states that; “the Right of the people to keep and bear arms Shall Not be infringed”.

      However, remember that a Right that is not asserted and invoked is basically a Right that does NOT exist. Stop accepting government granted privileges in trade for your God given Rights.

      • Yeah well you are correct but that a 5 bucks may get you a coffee it mostly will not in court as the court has been indoctrinated in liberalism ideology and no longer stands up for the constitutional right.

        Hell just look at what the court has done in this election. The courts have NOT YET accepted one case on merit but have rejected all on bullcrap. Unfortunately our republic has never been worse off than it is now.

  2. That’s the great thing about having video cameras, if I don’t know you then I don’t answer the door. If they have a warrant they will find a way in. If they don’t have a warrant I don’t need to talk to them. Nobody has come back with a warrant.

    • If they “find a way in”, they better have a local police officer in uniform with them (in addition to a warrant), or they will meet my shotgun. You’re defining a home invasion.

      • You can bluster on the internet but if alphabet boys have a warrant and have to break down your door because you won’t answer it you’re at the point where you get to choose how screwed you are- and deciding to answer them with a shotgun is the “totally screwed” category. You’re not getting out of that situation walking.

        • Which is why you always keep an off the books firearm or 3 at an off site location.

          If you’re waiting to fight the .gov until they’re stacking at your door you’re fucked.

        • You’re not getting out of that situation walking.

          Neither will they… When the sunshine hits the first story about that happening a lot of good old boys are going to go all in… Someone has to fire the fist shot and that person will NOT be the last to die…. If you’re skeeerd just pack whatever shit you own in a box and tell them to come and get it….

        • How many of the ATF will be walking and how many will forget the cost of forced entry in the future. Americans had better learn that abuse by federal agents is neither lawful nor acceptable.

        • I was not threatening WW3 here, all I said was they had better have a local cop *in uniform* with them, and that was what I meant. The ATF goof pictured in another story suing the cops who tased him is a perfect example, my neighbors do not walk their dogs looking that much like a bum, if he entered my house without my permission I would SHOOT his ass, and right now. Because I would be near 100% sure he was a violent criminal without much sense. If such assholes were waiting in my driveway as described here, I would park sideways in my driveway so they couldn’t leave and call 911, meanwhile getting the car 1911 in my hand, then start filming.
          Further, if you are saying they are monitoring my conversations without a warrant, pardon me if I don’t believe it, I know the country is going downhill but I don’t think it’s that far gone.
          And all in all, I’m no kid any more, my job here is done, and there are worse ways to die than on your feet fighting for your freedom, in your own home.

    • @Ralph,

      I don’t want to be the test case to see if the Court will accept the “Biden Defense” as an affirmative defensive strategy…most likely, the MSM and DNC shills would claim that Slow Joe just “misspoke” like they have on other occasions when his hoof-n-mouf disease manifested.

  5. We the people better start getting rid of these corrupt politicians organizations they have NO Right warrant or not that is INFRINGING on Our Constitutional Rights time to have the Military remove this communist government from America’s Soil that includes Islamist, socialist atheists round them all up including congress senate and all the courts that do not Uphold our Constitution as Written

    • The solution to the problem is to cease voting for democrats. Eventually, they will change their ways or cease to be a party. The control and power is in the hands of the voter.

      • Now that the “Party of Science” has the CCP, Silicon Valley and the MSM batting for them…the act of voting becomes disruptive. With the Constants delineated, a known Coefficient and a standard Operator there is no need to introduce a Variable (voter) into the equation. It becomes a kindness to not inconvenience people with the stress of voting – when a simple flip of a switch, a bit of programming code, a bribe or veiled threat in the right places ensures they WIN every time.

      • “The solution to the problem is to cease voting for democrats. Eventually, they will change their ways or cease to be a party.” Or (at the very least) cease voting for far-left, ‘progressive’ Democrats. Frankly, it’s probably (past) time to put BOTH parties “on notice” and start voting Libertarian.

  7. If they don’t have a warrant, never let the cops into your home. If you don’t have a PornHub account, then you don’t need to be afraid of them searching your home. They can’t accuse you of having kiddie porn.

    Yes I know we are all “just one crime away” from a felony charge. But you need to individually stand up for your rights.

    • If it’s the ATF and they have a warrant, they probably won’t be knocking.

      The fact that they knocked indicates they need your permission.

      If they threaten, menace, and say you’re only making it harder on yourself by not cooperating, it probably means they can’t get a warrant.

      However, if they knock and you voluntarily hand over your property (and your rights), the chances of them shooting your dog or stomping your kitten are near zero. Those chances are definitely non-zero if they come back with a warrant and a raid team.

      https://www.ammoland.com/2020/12/rogue-atf-agents-are-cracking-down-on-legal-guns-in-anticipation-of-biden-admin/

      • Anyone who forces their way into you home, and they don’t knock first and ask permission to enter, will be shot dead on crossing the door thresh hold. The NO knock raid is for real.

        The mistake most home defenders make is they only fire one or two shots. Keep shooting until the threat stops. The only way to get respect from a “raiding party” is to show you have as much firepower as they do.

        An AR-15 with a 30 or 20 round mag. Any pistol chambered carbine with a 20 or 30 round mag. Or just a hand gun with a 30 round stick mag. You fire 6 or 8 rounds at the invader, his associates will not follow him into your home. Even the police with body armor will not be going into your home. After you have demonstrated you have “normal capacity” magazines as well.

        Its the, accessory market, that makes any gun superior to what your grandfather had when he was a kid. And the government is only now figuring that out. Sadly the “gun community” only cares about “old wooden gun” technology.

        I expect them to try and outlaw rifle scopes next.

        • Keep shooting until the threat stops.

          THAT has been my attitude since my first real firefight in Vietnam….. I keep several 40 rnd AR mags w/5.56 and 300 blk and two 40s for the Mini-14 in 5.56

          • What if a BO mag finds its way into a 5.56 gun?

            That won’t happen if your BO mags are plainly marked, I use pearlescent nail polish on the mags AND the upper…. NOT my first rodeo…

        • to MADDMAXX
          Thank you for your service sir.
          btw
          That Ruger 1022 with the BX25 magazine, 25 rounds of 22 ammo, gets respect as well.

        • Lol you won’t do any of that. You will hand over whatever the ATF asks for. Pro tip if the ATF is knocking hide your dog!

          • blown up an AR with BO ammo says they had strict procedures in place to prevent it,

            You know absolutely NOTHING about me… First of all my go to “EMERGENCY” firearms are a 10mm Glock a Ruger P90 45 and a Saiga semi auto 12 gauge with alternating 00 buck and slugs… If I need an “emergency” rifle I’d probably grab one of the two AKs in the case in my bedroom… But, I can assure you that you would have to be blind and totally braindead to MISTAKENLY put one of MY 300 BO mags into anything NOT marked for that magazine, I only have one 300 upper (right now) and it can not be confused for anything other than what it is…….

        • @Fedup and MADD,

          I use rubber band markers from Faxon Arms on my mags. Blue says “.233/5.56” and red says “300BLK”. Can’t possibly mix those two up.

          Of course, I only store the appropriate mags with the appropriate guns, so…

          • Can’t possibly mix those two up.

            Except in the dark… My markings on BOTH the mags and the rear of the upper and the charging handle are visible in low light and I don’t intermingle those mags with 5.56 each are kept in separate WELL marked containers.. Rubber bands are okay but they don’t mark the upper and I don’t have dedicated lowers as I have several more complete lowers (many from 80% receivers) than uppers and I swap them out frequently…

        • MADD,

          It seems as though you’re intent on finding something wrong with whatever I say or whatever precautions I’ve taken with my own gear, so…

          If someone has two guns (and loaded mags) in both 5.56 and 300BLK and doesn’t take the necessary steps to prevent accidental swapping between the two cartridges – especially if there’s any expectation that action may be taken in low light conditions – then maybe that indicates the person needs more thorough training or practice.

          • and doesn’t take the necessary steps to prevent accidental swapping between the two cartridges….. then maybe that indicates the person needs more thorough training or practice.

            On that we have agreement…

            It seems as though you’re intent on finding something wrong with whatever I say or whatever precautions I’ve taken with my own gear, so…

            Sorry you took it that way, just saying in the heat of the moment shit can happen in a given set of circumstances… Your rubber bands are great for the range, in a real firefight maybe not… I mark my 300 mags with bright enamel and use caps on them that must be physically removed prior to being inserted into the mag well.. Yours works for you mine works for me and hopefully neither of us will ever have to deal with those issues under the pressure of a life and death situation…. We Cool?

        • If your solutions for anything involve rubber bands, remember that left alone a while, rubber bands will degrade, break, and leave you without that solution. I’d only do that if I was using those mags regularly, like every month.

      • What did our forefathers do about being abused by the government. Better to die free than live like a slave. I see you have all ready made your choice.

      • To assist the ATF it is advised to ransack your hour, tear open the internal walls, beat yourself up, handcuff yourself, and have a signed confession ready. ATF will thank you for your cooperation by seizing all your property and having you in Federal Prison for only 20 years.

  8. Here in Ca, they love to confiscate AR/AK pistols. A friend took a plea to stay out of jail, now he is a felon and can’t have any forearms. When they took his toys, they took everything and would not even return the pelican cases, reloading equipment and supplies so that he could sell them.

    If you suspect they will come back to your home, be sure to put anything you have, down to cleaning kits, in storage with an FFL. That way you can get something back out of your investment.

    • They took his forearms? Those bastards!

      Did they at least pay to have the sleeves of his wardrobe shortened?

      • Humor emerging from this serious site comes as a welcome surprise for this former blue water sailor. Long ago I went to the NAS North Island range – and using a borrowed Nation Match .45 – got me the USN’s Expert Pistol qualification. The qualification calls for a three year cycle. Of course the Navy – during the turbulent 1960’s – never makes – – – – the North Island qualification was both my first and last (with the M1911).

        Now the M1 carbine – that’s a different story.

        I’ve thoroughly enjoyed reading the comments here.

    • True, unless the AR pistol doesn’t conform to CADOJ’s magical three criteria of an AW – semi auto, detachable mag, and centerfire. Slip in a KaliKey BCG to make it a bolt action pistol, and you’re fine.

      Unfortunately, I don’t trust CA LEOs to know this, and would expect for my pistol to be confiscated and gone forever while I proved my case in court, even though I’d certainly be successful.

      There are so many laws on the books today restricting every aspect of life, there’s no way a LEO can possibly know how to properly enforce them.

  9. What should you do if the ATF knocks on your door?

    Remember when you fire two blasts that LEOs usually stand off to one side or the other and not directly in front of the door.

  11. Prepare beforehand….hang BLM flags around door….Creepy Joe for President sign in window…Support Antifa and Trans K9 Furry support group phone numbers posted sign by sidewalk. Most importantly a loud speaker..a really loud one.

    When the BATF knocks start screaming Raaaacccists!! over and over. Maybe throw in “down with the Patriarchy!” for good measure. “No Justice, No Peace!”

    Seems to work from what I’ve seen in the news. 😎

  12. If two guys wearing jeans and T-Shirts show up at your door, like the two guys in the picture, why should you believe that they are actually LEOs and not someone trying to steal your guns? Once upon a time, officers wore uniforms or suits and didn’t look like bums.

    • Now they wear tacticool pants, think of themselves as something other than “civilians,” and tend to treat every single person they interact with like a drug smuggler.

      I‘m quite supportive of police as a general rule – I know a lot of good ones and have friends and family in law enforcement – but “officer safety” has really been taken too far. The motto is “protect and serve,” not, “who dares, wins.”

  13. If they don’t away and/or get a warrant, say “I invoke my fifth amendment right, and decline to answer the question”. It’s illegal to lie to them, so don’t do it, but it’s legal to not talk to them. No names, no drivers license, don’t answer a goddamn thing.

  14. Laugh and say you lost everything in a boating accident like the chuckleheads think will work. I bet the federal investigator will belly laugh with you and walk away.

    • You sound like one of those new transexual Scout Leaders. Bear your chains lightly and remember that we never knew you or were associated with your bloodline.

    • Ron “the bich”……. nobody gives a fk what you’re chucklea$$ has to say….
      Fk the ATF…..I HIGHLY advise them to stay away from these parts…. and don’t you worry you boot licking mfer, they won’t be asking where my guns are, THEY WILL KNOW FIRST HAND YOU STUPID BA$$TURD….

      • You use the WORD fuck in your “name” then use abbreviations and dollar signs in your moronic rant??? I guess the “sense of humor/sarcasm recognition” gene has been overruled by the “hey look everybody, I’m a fucking moron and don’t give a damn who knows it” gene… Party on FTATFATMAAW… And PLEASE go take whatever meds you are SUPPOSED to be taking OR quit taking what ever drugs you ARE using or at least try to make sure they DO NOT get out into the general population (and you really should consider getting neutered, no REALLY I insist), God knows we are going to have enough bullshit to deal with without a whole herd of ignorant fucks like you on the loose.. The comment about the fucking “boating accident” has been a running “JOKE” around here for years… It’s OBVIOUS sarcasm, it’s not even close to some of the shaded provocative sarcastic shit I and others like to play with from time to time…. In closing you go get em soldier we are all pulling for you.. after all in any war someone has to be the FIRST to die and it sounds like you would be a willing volunteer… And as for my response to whatever shit for brains reply you might attempt (saves me the trouble later on)… Go Fuck Yourself you ignorant FUCK….

  16. Dear President Trump: You really should issue an Executive Order mandating body cams, with sound, be worn and kept active whenever on duty, for ALL federal agents with arrest powers.

    Ever notice that all feds fear cameras like vampires and cockroaches fear sunlight?
    That local and state LE are actually PROHIBITED from wearing body cams while working with federal task forces?

    Honest cops love body cams, they disprove every false allegation made against them.
    Feds hate body cams with a passion, does that mean they aren’t honest cops? Why, yes, yes it does.

    • I’d second that notion. I’d even go so far as to say that there is a greater need for Feds to have to wear then than a local cop. After all, local cops generally have to live in that same community and answer to the public they serve directly. A Federal agent doesn’t necessarily have that issue.

    • “for ALL federal agents with arrest powers.”

      Thanks for saying this. But I think most people really don’t know just how many different government agencies have arresting powers. And the many different government SWAT teams that really exist, outside of the FBI.

    • Oh, that poor baby! Damn shame another citizen has no capability of suing an ATF agent for screwing up his life, huh?

    • Notice that one of the counts in his lawsuit is that he was recorded on their body cams and people saw the recordings.

      Feds hate cameras, and seem to actually believe you’re not allowed to record video of them. I should find out if I can get a store to deliver some nice whiskey to those two cops for this.

    • Welcome to the jungle. Now he knows how ordinary citizens feel when confronted by a null and void agency not permitted by the US Constitution. And no one to come to the rescue and bitch slap the bullies.

    • You’ve never actually bought a firearm at a gunshow, apparently. It’s no different from buying one are the gunshop.

      • I’ve bought many guns from gun snows. Some from dealers, some from just people selling their own stuff. I do understand which requires a federally mandated back ground check and which does not. But that doesn’t matter given that I was referring to 80% lowers, which don’t require a background check at all. I didn’t bother to specially say that in my post because it was kind of what this entire post was about and I figured it went without saying

        But hey, I guess you were just so eager to own someone in the comment section that you didn’t even think about it. Continuations, you win one internet.

  19. I’m somewhat at a loss here. This is one of those things where I wonder if I had a stroke or the ATF had a collective stroke.

    From what I’ve seen/am seeing it seems that the ATF is *only* considering these kits to be something they want to go after? (At the moment obviously and braces notwithstanding.) Or at least this is what they’re currently saying. Which is to say that if you bought the frame from Polymer80 and the rest of the parts from other vendors the ATF doesn’t consider that a complete firearm having been sold because you had to shop around for the other parts?

    Am I getting this right? That officially what they object to is a complete kit being sold all in one place? This is their objection to Polymer80 Buy-Build-Shoot kits specifically…?

    Yet, from what I’m getting here it seems that the ATF is also raiding those vendors from whom you could have bought other parts, such as barrels and triggers, and seemingly attempting to link those purchases to people who bought a Polymer80 frame only?

    Am I right about this?

    Overall this looks to me like they’re basically saying that while they can’t make things “stick” for an 80% frame in terms of Polymer80, there are other ways to skin that proverbial cat?

    • Yes, officially they have decided that including all the ‘not a firearm’ parts along with the ‘not a firearm’ partially built receiver magically makes it ‘a firearm’.

      But with the State of California suing them in an attempt to force them to ban 80% altogether, I view this as ‘step one’ down a lengthy road.

      • But it sorta seems like buying a “not a firearm” and then buying a bunch of other “not a firearm” parts from another vendor also makes your “not a firearm”=”a firearm”?

        Kinda like constructive intent with AR buffers?

  21. Shoot to kill.

    When the people fear the government there is tyranny. When the government fears the people there is liberty.

    For the government to know true fear the servants of the tyrants must die.

  22. There’s a lot of troubles in the country. The ATF boogie men are just one, and not even the biggest one. But hey, we gotta start somewhere, right?

      • What I find interesting is its the Left, not the small government Libertarians, who have called for defunding the police.

        • The only reason they do that is because of race baiting and a false sense that if police go away so will “the violence and racism”. They have no idea what they are actually advocating.

  23. If the ATF comes knocking on your door? Say nothing. Consent to nothing. ALL federal law enforcement is not your friend, they are focused on convictions, not justice.

    • “..they are focused on convictions, not justice.”
      Absolutely.
      For alphabet agencies, their effectiveness is determined by convictions. Any reduction in actual crime rates is incidental, and only fodder for right-wing publications and talk radio.
      It’s the same with drug use in America. We’ve been fighting the war on drugs since the 60s, and losing since then, but the crazy sums of money spent on this war (about $8 Billion annually) means it will continue as long as the money is there. There is no consideration of whether the number of users and deaths goes up or down, only on convictions.
      It will be the same with “gun crime.” It is the same in some states now, and the ATF is working hard to make it that way in all states.

  24. Bump stocks yesterday plastic guns today, Aluminium guns tomorrow . Where does it end ? These tyrants have overstepped thier authority and need to be held accountable . A good start would be to do away with the ATF altogether and let these bullies find a real job .

    • Alcohol – prohibition – failed.
      Tobacco – sold in every corner store – failed.
      Firearms – failing, so they continue to reach same as they did on the other two.

      Their entire existence is not to succeed, but to infringe.

  25. I must add something to this that looks to be overlooked. It’s standard for ANY cop to pull the same tried and true routine. That’s to come off as friendly, get you to engage in conversation…everything is hunky dory. WRONG With very few exceptions, cops knocking on your door is NEVER a good thing.
    COPS are COPS, it makes no difference if their letters on the jacket says ATF. FBI, or whatever. If you LIE to them, you can get busted. DO NOT ENGAGE THEM IN CONVERSATION. I don’t happen to agree with being polite. How polite do you think THEY would be if you knocked on their door? I’d tell the them to GTF out of here. It’s MY house. I’ve lived here 40 years and I don’t give a rats ass who you are.
    Don’t lie to them. Don’t answer ANY questions. I know who’s at my door before I open it and if it’s cops, I open a window to see what they want. I NEVER open the door for a cop without knowing what they want.
    Honestly, if the ATF came to my door wanting to inspect my AK or some stupid shit, I’d tell the to FO&D. get a warrant. I’m NOT presenting myself as Mr. Nice Guy….not with cops.

  26. “If they have a warrant, that’s one thing, but if not, say, ‘I want to help as much as possible, but have to speak to an attorney first.’”

    It’s a crime to lie to federal agents. I would omit the part about wanting to help as much as possible.

  27. Corn Pop says blast both barrels through the door.
    If they arrest you afterwards start chanting “black lives matter” and call he feds Nazis until Shia Laboof cones to your rescue.

    • “Nobody is home…” Exactly. Ignore them, and MAYBE they’ll go away and find someone else to needlessly harass.

  29. ‘What Should You Do If the ATF Knocks at Your Door?’

    Bleed out over a hot pile of brass is the only appropriate answer.

  30. If the ATF comes knocking on your door, call the Columbus Police Department to come handcuff and tase them….😆

  31. Does anyone else feel like we are almost to the point of no return??
    Not gonna bullshit,but Im 52 and I have never been this worried for our country.

  32. Hope my wife & kids ain’t home…don’t have those 80% thingy’s or anything “illegal”. Unless slow Joe/Kamaltoe order it so.

  35. It was never about the Bumpstock. Its always been about anything that enhances the performance of a firearm, for the given user.

    The first weapon accessory banned from import were rifles with a bayonet lug. See the 1968 gun control act.

  40. I wonder about the situation of a person who buys an 80% lower or receiver and has a malfunction during the machining process making it useless for its intended purpose and recycles it.

  41. If ATF shows up at my door, I’ll show them my Dan Zimmerman identification, and tell them that I’ve never heard of the dude they’re looking for.

  42. The replay of being set up by the ATF before accosting you at your door.

    This just proves the point that you need to practice situational awareness. Your head should be on a swivel at all times. Note strange cars or people on the street. Note abnormal traffic and double check it. Don’t tell others in case they laugh at you (unless you know they won’t) cause you’ll get embarrassed. Wouldn’t want to feel embarrassed now would you? Ha.

    It does not hurt to be a little paranoid in this day and age. Just don’t go overboard and talk to a head shrinker about it. Or even the wife.

    And being aware can stop most (not with LE) encounters as they can see you’re aware and ready. I always have an out. A plan of escape or retreat or reaction. Most plans can be adapted to fit many different situations. It just takes stopping for a minute and thinking about it and then coming up with a way to react that might give you an edge of a few minutes. Or get you away from the attackers.

    The most dangerous time is when returning to home base. You’re tired. You’re thinking about having a drink and some supper and sitting down and getting the kinks out. That’s the time when you are most vulnerable. Be prepared.

  43. I bought my 80% flowers over 10 years ago at an estate sale. I doubt there’s any record of the purchase now. Still, should I start hearing they’re in State, I’ve the container to bury my AR’s ready to go. I’ll bury all my mags and 5.56 and .300 AAC too.

  45. As with Breonna Taylor where a dozen plain clothes officers opened fire in the middle of the night, the only recourse is to have burial insurance. Many places allow no-knock warrants so this outlaw behavior by cops is legal. Many times an entire SWAT team using assult weapons will break down the door and they purposely do this after midnight when people are asleep in their beds. If the occupant has a gun and tries to protect themselves and their family they are then shot by the officers a few dozen times. This is taking place in every state in the nation with the cops using miltary weapons and military vehicles and tactics developed by the CIA with its Phoenix program in Vietnam and used in Central and South American countries under Reagan and was used in Yugoslovia under Clinton and in Afghanistan under Bush, Obama, and Trump.

    • Many places allow no-knock warrants so this outlaw behavior by cops is legal.

      Funny thing.. turns out the cops DID knock AND announce… and after several different versions where (1) YOUR dozen cops just busted in and opened fire to (B) the boyfriend fired the first shot while Taylor remained in the bedroom to (3) the final version (the truth) that Taylor was next to the boyfriend when HE fired at the cops (3 cops NOT a dozen) who then returned fire… (which explains why she was shot 5 times but not why the boyfriend was not hit…. Two cops were deemed justified because the boyfriend shot at them, the third cop was charged with wanton endangerment for recklessly firing his weapon allowing stray rounds to enter other apartments…When you apply the Biden “truth” to stuff it might sound good but it’s just so much rehashed bullshit…

      • Man, does it really matter? IF they raided your place in the middle of the night and all you heard was “police!” would you believe it? Sounds like the perfect way for a criminal to get over on stupid people.

        I am not defending the thugs at the taylor residence, but I certainly won’t defend the thugs doing the raids either. That shit was corrupt as it gets. 3 cops just go in plain clothes then finally they call for backup? You’d think a no knock raid would get the response of a swat team… not a 3 man team most likely looking for drug loot to stash before they call it in.

        • Cops looking to cash in was my takeaway, too. Plainclothes in the middle of the night is nonsensical otherwise.

  46. keep your mouth shut if brought into custody.

    Do not respond to their knocking, call 911 stating that unwanted supishious individuals are at your door and that you fear for your life.

    Stay out of sight and away from windows get low and flat. If someone tells you to get up don’t stay still. Stay on the line with 911 if you can.

    Do get into touch with a lawer asap

    • That’s all well and good… but when do you defend yourself? So you are on the phone reporting suspicious people assuming you can do this in time with their 2 minute intro and holds… by then they are inside. We are gun owners. Someone kicks in our door, they get a violent response to a violent action. Self defense is violent, it doesn’t matter if it’s against someone behind a badge. Also, assuming you do all this and those people yelling “police!” outside are actually police, when do you find out? The first thing you are going to see is someone in the firing position maneuvering through your house. That – is a threat. A phone call won’t save your life and a badge shouldn’t save theirs. Sure, most times this happens it’s due to “criminal” activity, but we have also seen them make gun owners into criminals for “not complying” with their infringements.

  47. Good thing we have freedom, unlike those poor slobs in Russia! They have to worry about goons coming in the dark of the night to take them away!

  48. Where’s the warrant Fed boy?

    If they don’t leave, call the cops. I found it hilarious in Columbus when the cops tazed the ATF agent.

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