By MojoRonin
I just finished reading an article published at huffingtonpost.com summarizing the disagreement Ted Nugent and his brother Jeffrey have over expanded background checks. Nuge’s elder brother is for expanding them, while, as you’d guess, younger brother Ted opposes expanding existing law. They posted dueling op-ed articles and are both respectful in their agreement to disagree. Very commendable of them both, and they earn my respect regardless of their conflicting views. I only wish my own don’t-agree-with-you-about-gun-control brotherly conflict was as agreeable . . .
Stanley, as I’ll call him, is a married father with a daughter living in the Twin Cities. He’s a musician, a stay at home dad, and not what anyone would call a conservative. As my half-brother, he has a different mother and wasn’t raised in the same home I was. His mom decided to have an alternate orientation with her partnership, and a different interpretation of religion than my own. After he set out on his own, he discovered he had an appetite for drugs, cafe snobbery (with guitar, of course), and job hopping — 9-to-5s are too mainstream for Stan.
Yeah, you’ve guessed right. . .he’s a bearded hipster liberal and too damned entitled to look past his own ego. There’s some irony in someone who’s a liberal and incapable of viewing other opinions that differ from their own despite the presence of facts.
When the shooting at Aurora, Colorado happened, I put up a silly little Facebook post on my page. You know, the one that says something like, “gun free zones are psycho magnets and only disarm the law abiding.” I then went to work at my job, because, well, I have one.
Stanley the hipster decided to troll the (expletive deleted) out of the post, whilst my friend (a long-time gun owner, collector, and permit to carry holder) countered Stanley’s progressive-ese with factoids. I eventually came home to find an epic of troll-n-flame brawl on my Facebook page, one that would make Dante and the Brothers Grimm sit up and take note. The result of this, though, has been a rift between my brother and me ever since, despite the fact that I wasn’t even there for the argument.
You see, I’m a moron for owning a gun. For believing that my firearm protects my family and me. Since Stanley doesn’t have a gun, no one else should. Don’t argue, if you are on the other side of his opinion, you’re wrong – because you can’t see both sides of the issue (doesn’t that sound…silly?).
Yeah, he’s the Occupy Wall Street supporter whose wife has a degree and works her ass off. He’s employed part time as a bar tender, last I heard; if he’s still working at all. The reasons for his troll attacks was simply to antagonize under the guise of ‘making you think before you talk.’ The result was a different matter – hurt pride, loss of respect and avoiding me (the eldest brother) ever since so I don’t give him a case of the ol’ “I told ya so.”
Since the Aurora and Newtown shooting sprees, facts supporting what we here at TTAG already know have been found, collated, sorted, sifted, and put out in a comprehensible bundle; that more law abiding gun owners – especially ones who carry a firearm – result in lower crime. And that gun free zones are the preferred venues for mass shooters.
I’ve not talked to him since the Newtown tragedy, and no, I haven’t de-friended him. I’m taking a high road by just continuing to do my thing: family, work, having some fun. My phone is always on for him to call, my Facebook page is open to his posts. But to do that, he’d have to eat some crow (big time). I regret the situation, but don’t have much pity for him. I wish him the best, and that will hinge on his commitment to wanting to succeed in life. That double standard thing might be a problem for him, however.
My father always says, “We can disagree without being disagreeable.” I say, Dad, tell that to the liberals.
“I believe in getting both sides of the story…so’s I can tell you why you’re wrong!” – Archie Bunker
I have more in common with my best friend than my brother. In fact, I favor the former over the latter. Sad, but that’s life.
Dude, I feel for you. Unfortunately, I have to break something to you. You state the following as indisputable fact:
“Since the Aurora and Newtown shooting sprees, facts supporting what we here at TTAG already know have been found, collated, sorted, sifted, and put out in a comprehensible bundle; that more law abiding gun owners – especially ones who carry a firearm – result in lower crime. And that gun free zones are the preferred venues for mass shooters.”
The problem is that people like your brother, and Feinstein, and Schumer, and Biden, and Obama don’t see it that way. They’ve sifted the facts too and come to a very different conclusion – only by the complete outlawing of guns can people be safe. They live in a very different world than we do and as such, you can’t expect them to ever see things the way you do. I hate to say it, but for now, you kinda gotta write your bro off as a lost cause. Unless and until he experiences one of those “oh shit” moments (or has someone close to him who does), his viewpoints are not going to change.
I have to disagree with you. Folks like Feinstein, and Schumer, and Biden, and Obama have NOT sifted the facts. They’ve sifted their emotions. And their political barometer…
I have 2 sisters that hate and would outlaw guns. No good reason, no personal tragedies or the like and there were a couple of times when we were younger and living in the same state they were more than happy to have me show up with a gun. Go figure. Both my sisters are past 50 and neither 1 of them has ever voted. Ever. Good damn thing too.
My father and brother both own a gun. They’re not gun people but they live in the country and see the gun as a tool like a shovel or hoe. As far as I know neither one has ever voted. Which is good. If they had their way we could own any shotgun and rimfire rifle we wanted, and that would be it.
I believe in constitutional carry and that all citizens should have access to the same guns as the police. And I vote. At family gatherings we simply don’t discuss certain things.
Great article. I’ve had some similar flame-n-troll threads on Facebook. I’ll just say I’m pretty “politically active” on Facebook when it comes to Constitutional rights and especially the 2A. And, I have some family I’ll just say would get along well with your brother. 🙂
I will admit to having “unfriended” a few people who chose to get personal in their arguments against me. I’ll throw facts at every emotional argument. But, when you resort to ad hominem, you’re outta here!
Great writing, Dan!
Dan didn’t write it. It was written by MojoRonin and posted by Dan.
Whoops! OK… it’s STILL some good writin’! 😉
Here’s an idea – don’t help leftwing loonies to enrich hemselves. “unfriend” facebook. Boycott google, etc. These are the useless twits that put Obama in the Whitehouse and are actively working to ban firearms.
The Social Disease(Media) really offer what anyhow? A temporary fad.
I’ve stopped adding them to posts on FB. They don’t want to be convinced and won’t change their opinion. I’ve considered unfriending, but other than their flaming liberalism handicap I like them.
I’m sorry,
I’ve had this exact same senario play out with many (former) friends, but never a family member. It’s easier to move on from a lost friend than it is family.
You lost me at “huffingtonpost.com”
My Obamabot brother called me a teabagger on my Facebook page and told me that the 2nd amendment doesn’t mean anything. I don’t even allow him to enter the driveway now, I will have him arrested for trespass..
Well, it’s true that disagreements on politics and religion can destroy friendships and ruin family relationships. My parents and sister are democrats and we have found that the best way for family harmony is to simply avoid politics.
Do these liberals that call tea party supporters “teabaggers” really know the derogatory meaning of this term?
Of course they know.
They really seem to believe that they can make you change your core principles to stop their attacks, it’s right out of Alinsky’s book. No doubt it works with some people but I work on the basis that if I’m not pissing the liberals off I’m doing it wrong. I don’t go along to get along, never have, never will.
Whenever I catch a liberal using the term Teabagger, I say I will be the Teabagger if they are the Teabaggies.
I had a similar experience. I was told my friends right to “feel” safe trumps my rights and that only the cops and military should have guns. Facts were nearly worthless. I just had to end up agreeing to disagree.
My brother is the same way. He posts stuff on facebook just to make me mad, but actually I laugh at them. A few times he posted some anti gun stuff. I respectfully responded with facts and figures, basically I nicely stuffed it right back in his face. He hasn’t talked to me directly since. Every time he posts an anti gun thing I stick it right back to him in a nice way. He’s a flaming liberal, either dumb as a bag of rocks, or he’s “brainwashed”. It really sucks because we used to be close. But he’s the one who chose to stop taking to me because I’m a “gun toting Republican.” In my eyes politics shouldn’t get in the way of family. He obviously thinks different.
That’s sad. My sister unfriended my wife and I on Facebook, but not because of guns — she’s highly allergic to profanity. 🙂 It bugged me a bit (and I obviously bugged her a lot), but we have other ways to communicate, so social network status doesn’t make or break our family relationships.
I’m in the odd position of being simultaneously more liberal and more conservative than most of my family. They’re religious and conservative, but either don’t like guns or are indifferent, while I’ve turned into an agnostic, socially liberal, civil liberties/Second Amendment fanatic. We’ve had some pretty lively debates on a variety of subjects; occasionally one of us will win somebody over, but we all tend to enjoy the mental exercise for its own sake, so it isn’t that hard to just agree to disagree.
Dan — no political disagreement is worth losing a relationship with a family member. Take the high road. Reach out to him. Tell him your political differences aren’t as important as the blood in your veins. With luck your brother will see past the politics, maybe even realize you’re not a wingnut and maybe move a little closer to reality. Only when he sees you as a real person will he get past political differences. Taking the first step and reaching out to him will be a step in the right direction.
I can’t imagine a political stance coming between me and my brother (or sister, or parent). Life’s too short for such squabbles.
MojoRonin was the author. Dan posted the article.
No familial relationship is worth disregarding your own political beliefs, it’s a pretty good bet that the liberal in the clan will not. (Speaking from experience.) The world is full of people you can agree with, why would you burden yourself with an unproductive, even destructive, relationship just because you happen, through no fault of your own, to be related? Move on, you’re not going to change their mind with facts and you’ll only bring more unnecessary aggravation into your own life. An a$$hole is an a$$hole, regardless of their relationship to you.
Tell him your political differences aren’t as important as the blood in your veins.
What does sharing DNA have to do with anything? If a person is an idiot, they’re an idiot. Who donated an egg and sperm is irrelevant. There are better people you can be spending your time and energy on.
I found over the past 40 years that “family” is vastly overrated. Especially when siblings are two political animals and one a welfare thief. Guns are a big issue with them. They did not like my carrying. Though one of the animals shoots bb’s at pictures of political conservatives in his basement. Wonder if I can call in a potential terrorist …
I like that line from Forrest Gump:
“Are you crazy, or just plain stupid.”
Unfortunately the latter applies more often then not.
My liberal brother was raising his voice and cussing when he chewed me out about the nra and guns being evil and i was an azz for buying them. Thankfully i am bigger, stronger, and younger and was tempted to tell him to step outside but i just walked away. Later he felt bad and apologized and i havent heard a peep from him. Funny thing is my sis in law (his wife) is from texas and is pro gun. I suspect she busted his nancy balls for me lol! 🙂 in the end blood is thicker than water and we all are family.
Its nice that the brothers Nugent can disagree and still remain civil. Thats hard to find in these times, when all most people want to do is tell others how wrong and idiotic they are. I do disagree on a few of elder Nugent’s ideas. He brings up the Partnership against drugs, and how we could use their ideas as a framework for changing minds as far as background checks go. BUT, the war on drugs has been a complete failure. All D.A.R.E. and the like have done is raise interest in drug use. Also, closing the gunshow loophole wont keep criminals from buying guns from some shady character in a random parking lot. Just my thoughts. I could be wrong..
I have a lib inlaw family, that odddly we enough own guns. More funds than I ever have…. But they have been cnnbrainwashed to think we don’t “need” assault rifles or 30 round mags, yet their son, owns one also… not to mention more hand guns than I, he has a firearm trust so he has suppressors also.
The problem is they view 2nd A rights as a “Hobby” and say things like “I hope I never loose my rights but if I do I’ll find snother hobby.”
I gave him a stern tongue lashing last time I went shooting & I think I may finsly getting through to him. My father & mother in kaws are hopeless obamalovers & think national heathcare as a mandatory scheme is a good thing…
They also seem to think we are a democracy… I only ask them to site the pleadge of allegiance and tell me where the word “democracy” is present…
Even when faced with obvious facts and stats that they should stand up for their rights I just get im a crazy extremist, republican… even though I don’t except partisan lables.
My f-n-law even has a conceal & carry, as does my b-n-law, but thinks if someone open carries they are a nut… I just don’t understand their thought processes.
I tell them I don’t have a problem with the current background system per se, but in order to make illegal purchases less common, give citizens the OPPORTUNITY to call the system themselves. Done end of story and super easy… but NOOOOOO we need a whole new scheme to subdue us… I’m not buyin it, sorry.
I’ve been fortunate- my family turned out to be more in-line with my strong beliefs about firearms than I ever would’ve thought.
See, my mom, as far back as I can remember, was terrified of guns. This is despite growing up in a home where my grandad had plenty of them.
– and let me just say this publicly, as opposed to murmuring to myself- I really miss my grandad. He was still a young man when we lost him, and I wish like all hell he could’ve finished teaching me how to shoot.
Anyway, one thing my mom had always said was while she didn’t like guns personally, she absolutely supported the right to own one.
Just a few short years ago, my dad and I dragged her into the hobby. She now owns some of the most expensive .22s on the planet, and a .38 wheel gun in almost as many flavors as they make. It didn’t take long to even break her of notions that “assault weapons” were bad, to the point of these days where she likes the “classic look” of my AKM, just not the recoil. My sister married a great guy who grew up hunting and shooting, so now when we go to the range, it’s damn near a family reunion.
I did lose some friends, but I have to tell you something- I don’t miss them much. The people who I would want watching my back- my dad and my best friend- would gladly do so, armed to the teeth. So just the two of them are worth a thousand of those weak-spirited former friends.
What is it that we always say — keep away from stupid people doing stupid things in stupid places. “Stupid people” includes family.
If a family member breaks your agates for carrying but you don’t break his for not carrying, you’ve already tried to meet him more than halfway. Take the hint — he resents you for being a man. Halfway isn’t far enough. It’s time to broaden the distance.
I guess I’m both lucky and smart. Lucky on that my family and I are on the same page about guns and smart that I married a woman who grew up helping her dad handload ammo.
Sometimes you got to stand up for what’s right with the Liberals even if they are family and that most always leads to a falling out. Where the line should be drawn is the question. I mean, what if they wanted to kill unborn babies or free terrorists from Guantanamo…..
Sad but true. After the crap all went down I was embedding some Colion noir videos and…well after the ensuing argument I have not spoken to my brother who I was very close with since February. My efforts to reconnect have been ignored.
Thanks for all of your replies, I guess this isn’t as isolated of a situation as I initially thought!
I have 2 brothers. My older brother is for background checks and most of the regulations the anti’s want but he’s civil about his opinions and does know that the majority of gun owners are good people. IMO, he’s scared of the few, twisted jack-weeds out there.
We were joking around one day about the 20/12 zombie craze and he said if that ever happened he would be showing up at my door. I matter of factly told him that I hope for his sake it would never happen because he isn’t getting in, he has the means to go out and get the tools to defend himself and family. I would be way to busy protecting my family to worry about rescuing his.
He is now in the market to buy a handgun
I’m for compromise . . .
You get background checks.
We get to carry a concealed firearm in a state or city in the United States of America; so long as we qualify for a permit in any two States (one being the one we reside in) that requires finger prints, photo, and a marksmanship qualification based on the Texas or New Mexico standard. Exceptions for when secure areas are present and we have an opportunity to disarm.
Background checks aren’t the issue, background checks designed to create a national registry of gun owners and guns is the issue and this is what was being attempted.
There may have been clauses in the bill to prevent a registry, but if the door is open the federal government cannot be trusted to not come in.
It is about trust, do you trust the government to obey the law? Do you trust the government to respect your rights?
I trust The States and that people will vote with their feet. I’m getting ready to do this in NY. The Cuomo Anti Gun Law is bridge too far for me. Even though I’ve followed it. I don’t break the laws. I’m not an IRS agent. 🙂
Tongue in cheek aside. I do get to move wihtout permission from the Feds . . . all that guy had to do was compromise and he would have kept me as a tax slave. But he went too far.
“You see, I’m a moron for owning a gun. For believing that my firearm protects my family and me. Since Stanley doesn’t have a gun, no one else should. Don’t argue, if you are on the other side of his opinion, you’re wrong – because you can’t see both sides of the issue (doesn’t that sound…silly?).”
This is the view of the gun grabbers. The same ones who, ironically, often are surrounded by armed protectors. They’re not interested in facts or reality, only that YOU (legal gun owner who has never committed a crime) should not have guns, just because a criminal went and used one to commit crimes.
You have as much obligation to make nice with those bigots who believe their prejudices justify their attacks on your civil rights as…
a black man is obligated to make nice with a noose party from the Ku Klux Klan.
In other words, the enemy of your constitutionally guaranteed civil rights is just an enemy.
Most democrats have gone beyond the point where I can accept them as just people with a different opinion, they are actively working to overthrow much of what I stand for. I see no reason to be nice to them or to cooperate with them.
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