“In March, two women who were sexually assaulted when they were students at the University of North Carolina arrived unannounced at the office of Senator Kirsten E. Gillibrand with a request,” nytimes.com reports. “Help us stop sexual assault on college campuses.” Fair enough. Rape is a brutal crime. Anything that can be done to prevent or punish its perpetrators is a good thing, not a bad thing. “On Tuesday, Vice President Joseph R. Biden. Jr., who has long championed women’s rights, said the administration would continue to focus on the issue. ‘Colleges and universities can no longer turn a blind eye or pretend rape or sexual assault doesn’t occur on their campuses,’ he said at a White House event.” True dat. So . . . what to do? The White House has issued guidelines . . .
Click here for the First Report of the White House Task Force to Protect Students from Sexual Assault: NOT ALONE. Reading the report, it’s clear that the Task Force is operating under the assumption that the college rape problem is – exclusively – a date rape problem. And that that we’re all responsible, somehow. Especially men. Hence the Task Force’s emphasis on “bystander intervention.”
Among the most promising prevention strategies – and one we heard a lot about in our listening sessions – is bystander intervention. Social norms research reveals that men often misperceive what other men think about this issue: they overestimate their peers’ acceptance of sexual assault and underestimate other men’s willingness to intervene when a woman is in trouble. And when men think their peers don’t object to abusive behavior, they are much less likely to step in and help. Programs like Bringing in the Bystander work to change those perspectives – and teach men (and women) to speak out against rape myths (e.g., women who drink at parties are “asking for it”) and to intervene if someone is at risk of being assaulted.
If that’s not enough to make you wonder when political correctness replaced awareness and physical “intervention” by potential victims, click here for the fact sheet on “bystander intervention.” And ask yourself this: what are the odds of “bystander intervention” when a rapist attacks – despite his colleagues’ sensitivity training?
Yes there is that. Or should be. Why in the world would the White House ignore the critical indeed life-saving importance of teaching men and women to take personal responsibility fore their own safety? How about lowering the legal age for concealed carry to 18 and “allowing” students to exercise their natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms? (Constitutional Carry would work there.)
Short of that, what about situational awareness training, self-defense classes or the provision of less-lethal weapons? None of that – not one word – is mentioned in the Report. It’s all about communal prevention strategies and mopping-up operations. Personal responsibility doesn’t get a look in. You want to talk about a culture that “encourages” violence against women? Talk about that.
Aww…don’t the shrill feminazi’s believe ALL sex is RAPE??? Carry a whistle, puke, use a call box. Or get Crazy Joe Biden to fire a shotgun into the air. Does anyone really believe other men will intervene without a clear indication of what’s going on?
Wear what you want. Do what you want. However be aware your actions and inactions incrase the likelihood of certain events to occur. Being ever vigilant, prepared, and sober enough to make the right decision in a time-is-life situation is the best rape prevention strategy. This whole rapist shaming idea is ridiculous. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that rape, like sex, is usually an act that occurs hidden from the view of someone who could step in to prevent it. So minimize your risk whenever possible.
Just order all rapists turn in their penises in a local “penis buy back program”. Meanwhile, make it a felony for any rapist to own a penis. Any man that doesn’t fit the stereotype of a rapist, must register his penis, and pay yearly taxes on it. Finally we must pass an “Assault penis ban” Any penises over 5″ in length, hold more than one testicle, and can ejaculate more than once per hour must be banned. If this fails then door to door penis confiscation will begin.
When manly bits are outlawed only outlaws will have manly bits.
Yes!
I wonder what percentage of rapists are victims of forced infantile genital mutilation and what percentage, if any, are whole? I happen to know personally that rape is almost impossible for a whole man to commit, but I can imagine a desensitized mutilated one being used like a bludgeon.
And, even though it might take a couple of years, the mutilation is ultimately repairable.
Post all college campuses and frat houses as “Rape Free Zones”!
That should work as well as the Gun Free zones ….
First they explain that rape is a crime of violence, not lust, then they say you should pee on yourself to ruin the mood.
If some jackhole is raging enough to rape someone, how does adding disgust and frustration calm the situation down? I wonder how many unfortunates have tried this technique and turned a rape into a homicide.
We have total idiots in charge!
In other news, the Sun is a tad warm.
Have you noticed how a lot women are dressing, or not dressing, in the last decade or so? The necklines especially, get lower, much lower, and the hem lines get higher! And of course, women love to tease guys.
I realize this is not an excuse to commit a crime, but it does seem to me that some women should be a bit more mindful of what they are doing.
Wow….just…wow…
And I don’t mean that in like the “WOW!”, more of a disappointed head shaking wtf wow…
Looking to test out your asbestos underwear I take it.
So glad to hear from the Taliban
Looks like some folks miss-read my post! If I gave the impression that I in any way, felt that rape was an excusable offense, I’m sorry!
I thought I made it clear in my second paragraph that there is no excuse for rape!
That someone will misread your ironic post is as inevitable as the tides.
Gunr… please just stop.
You have no idea what you’re talking about and stuff like this really makes us all collectively look stupid by association.
W. B., In this world there will always be people who will miss-read posts, How much responsibility would you have me take for that. I have already said that I am sorry if someone does not see the true meaning of my post. I do not feel any further comment from me is useful.
Who said anything about responsibility? Oh yeah. You did.
A. Why not put it in the first paragraph if it was more important?
B. You claim women should take personal responsibility for how they dress; why won’t you take personal responsibility for what you wrote?
Felix, I thought I did in my last comment.
Inviting leers is a far cry from inviting assault. I say you shouldn’t advertise what you aren’t selling, but even if they are selling, they should still be able to pick their own customers, and not be forced to bake a cake for someone they don’t like.
Wait. What?
.
True enough!
That may be a nominee for the Interttubez Analogy of the Year™
They from the same University of North Carolina that not once, but at least four times in the last 25 years sought to end rape by putting “Rape Free Zone” signs around campus and, in 2011 (for example), sold “Rape Free Zone” awareness t-shirts?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rape-Free-Zone-University-of-North-Carolina-at-Chapel-Hill-UNC-Aware-T-Shirt-S-/171214771702
Here’s an announcement from 1999:
http://www.unc.edu/news/archives/sep99/rapefree092899.htm
And 1998:
http://www.unc.edu/news/archives/oct98/rapefree.htm
That’s their solution – security theater in the forms of signs, rallies and t-shirts.
It’s ok, I’m wearing my rape prevention t-shirt under my blouse. I feel much safer now.
Hard to defend yourself in any way when you’re piss blackout drunk.
You’re thinking of the University of Iowa.
I’d wager that, more than anything, getting completely trashed increases the risk of sexual violence. I wonder how many of the “unreported” sexual assaults go unreported because the victim (and perhaps even the perpetrator) can’t remember that it happened. Or, to include an even larger subset, the victim fears legal reprisal because they were drinking underage – another “legal age” that should be reduced to 18. But we can’t do that. Think of the children!
I think one problem is children who grow up in strict, restrictive households, then wide-open, full-throttle freedom from their parents as they go to college. Seems like a recipe for disaster.
Yeah those strict parents are the problem because we all know how restrictive modern day parents are compared to parents of yore. Yep I’m sure it’s this big cultural revolution we have nowadays where parents keep close tabs on their children. /sarc
Just saying based on what I’ve experienced in my parents’ house, and seeing my friends and their parents. Positive vs negative reinforcement. Diana Baumrind’s dimensions of Authoritarian, Authoritative, Permissive, or Uninvolved parenting. And the phrase, “Kids Don’t Come With Instruction Manuals” also comes to mind.
Stupid people doing stupid things in stupid places comes to mind. As people of the gun, we know that our choices have consequences and consider where our decisions may lead us. Should I pull out my wallet and flash the cash while I walk down this dark alley filled with questionable characters? Not if I am not ok with the likelihood of getting beaten and relieved of said cash. Most of us would avoid the dark alley. But under the “bystander intervention” epistemology, we would not only take the dark alley but likely undo our britches on the way in then cry foul when non-participants failed to call their peers out as they relieve me of my money, my dignity, and maybe my life.
At no point should we ever consider absolving the aggressor of their transgression when they transgress but the victims choices have a lot more power over the resulting situation than the awareness movement gives credit. While I know Leftist ideas will never collide with common sense, at some point this intellectual assphyxiation (the practice of intellectually planting ones head in ones ass) must come up for air and wonder how much influence they have over the chance/choice struggle.
You beat me to it, but I’ll say it another way: Avoid stupid situations in stupid places with stupid people. There’s no excuse for perpetrators of rape, assault, etc., The flip side of that is you don’t drink until you are blacking out the night with most of your bidness showing with a bunch of horny frat guys in the room. Be smart and you lessen the chance that you’re picked by the low lifes. You sure as hell wouldn’t walk around the ghetto in the wee hours of the morning and advertise you have 500 bucks in your pocket. You make yourself a target for the sicko’s of the world in both situations.
You could do everything right and still get attacked. And that’s why you carry a gun. 🙂
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness, that is life.”
– Picard
🙂
Rape is somehow different from every other crime, in that no one is allowed to suggest strategies to lower one’s odds of becoming a victim.
It’s never been controversial to suggest that the vacationing homeowner have someone pick up their mail, and check on the house, while they are away.
No one’s ever been accused of victim-blaming when they suggest that one should avoid giving out one’s social security number.
It’s even acceptable to advise women to have their keys in hand and be aware of their surroundings, while crossing the parking lot to their vehicle.
But woe betide that poor soul that would suggest any such common sense, when it comes to rape prevention.
Yeah, it’s because of the aftermath of in the past when women were blamed for being raped; now there is a knee jerk reaction to any suggestion a woman has any responsibility for her safety when it comes to being raped.
Any other scenario, but not about rape.
It is not rational, nor logical; which is a hall mark of the left, but it is the reality.
“locking the doors of your car at stoplights to stop carjackers”
What’s with all of this locking and unlocking, anyway? Lock the doors when you get in your vehicle, and don’t unlock them until you arrive at your destination and scoped out your surroundings for possible threats!
And exit the vehicle the same way you entered it: with any and all of your defensive weapons ready at a moment’s notice.
Well, at least they didn’t suggest that women vomit or urinate on their rapist.
Liberals will never suggest anything that vaguely resembles self reliance (like self defense). You’re supposed to come crying to them when you want something or need protection, etc.
No, you’re just supposed to die for the cause.
What? RF, how dare you. Any sane person knows that violence is NEVER ok. You want women to protect themselves and hurt rapists? Shame on you. Rapists are people too, and they have a right to not be hurt!
/Sarc
You want to know the best way to reduce the rates of sexual assault? Get more women to pack heat and make sure they are willing to shoot an attacker, and make the penalties for rape worse, in the form of castration. How many guys would be willing to rape a woman when there was a reasonable chance they would be shot and/or lose their balls? I’m talking “magic wand waving change” rather than something realistic of course. The ACLU would have a fit if rapists were castrated (even though it’s a perfect punishment. It fits the crime and it’s cheap), and the pro-rape people (those who insist that women owning guns is a terrible idea) would flit shit if the “guns for women” message were to be trumpeted in any real capacity.
Anyone who’s ever seen 20/20, 60 Minutes, 48 Hours, or Dateline knows that there are tons of people who are wrongfully accused and convicted of crimes they did not commit. Castrating rapists sounds great and all until you realize that the justice system is far from perfect and it will result in many men who are completely innocent getting castrated because they got accused by a scorned woman or a woman who felt guilty the next morning and the jury sided with the female like they so often do.
Same reason I don’t support the death penalty.
Yup.
If I were wrongly convicted of a rape I would much rather lose my balls than 5 years or more of my life.
Why are reproductive organs sacred?
Gee, I wonder why someone would be opposed to having a body part permanently cut off and all of the short and long term side effects that would come with it.
I am in sympathy with your idea. However, I feel obligated to remind you of the Eighth Amendment, which says no punishment may be “cruel and unusual”. While this applies to only federal crimes, many state constitutions mirror the Eighth Amendment.
And I think it’s gonna be a tough row to hoe to convince people that castration is not “cruel and unusual”.
Anyway, how far down does that slippery slope go? Are you positive you’ll never find yourself on that same slope?
If not, I would suggest it would probably be better not to go there.
Robinson v. California incorporated the 8th Amendment prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment pursuant to the 14th Amendment, so it binds the states as well as the feds. The case was decided in 1962.
I knew you’d straighten that out if I had it wrong. Thanks.
But.. But.. won’t the police help us?
Seriously they are missing a lot, and not because they lack insight. It is the victim mentality, lay back and think of England kind of thing.
I think they are trying to over analyze the situation. Perhaps self defense, you know pepper spray, a swift kick to the family jewels. Yeah that works, but “GASP” what if it doesn’t? Well armed self defense is the subject no one there wants to talk about. They scurry from the obvious like cockroaches.
You can’t save people from themselves and the way too many people act proves that out. People want to go where they want to go, do whatever they want to do and no one should cramp their styles, they want free sex and then expect others to automatically know what they should, or should not do with you. Girls want to go to parties, get skunk drunk along with the skunk drunk guys and then expect the guys to get chivalrous toward them when they are half-conscious instead of thinking, in their foggy minds, “Oh, look! Here’s a hot babe and she’s just lying there waiting for us.” Yeah, people who are drunk have so much common sense, right?
Fact–There are predators all over the place just waiting for someone to do something foolish so they can get their whatever they want. Fact–There are people all over the place who are “willing victims” who act irresponsibly so they can provide the predators with their victims and if they live, they can’t seem to understand that their own careless actions got them hurt. When you try to tell them this, people grab up their pitchforks and go after you for blaming the victim! That’s nuts!
Did the victims deserve what they got? NO! People should be able to go about their everyday lives without someone harming them. Does that matter to the predators? Not a bit! That’s what they count on. Does it mater what we SHOULD be able to do in our everyday lives? To decent people, yes. Do the predators agree with that? No, as they lay in wait for a victim who thinks she should be able to do whatever she wants and still be all right.
Predators are culling the “herd” with people just like animal predators do and they’re always on the lookout for the stray who got careless. Rapists take away the dignity of their victims. Looks like colleges are turning out a lot of young rapists these days.
Should we live our lives in fear? No. We should live our lives wisely.
A young woman who lived in our city was a bicycle rider. She hung out with her friends and didn’t think anything of cycling her way home in the wee hours of the morning because she wasn’t going to let anyone make her afraid. She had pepper spray.
One night, it was just before 2am and she was leaving her male friend’s home on her bike. She didn’t live real far from there, but it was far enough for a predator to see and take her and now she’s dead. Her murderer was caught and the cops did a great job of tracking him down. She’s still dead. Why didn’t her male friend ignore that she wanted to ride her bike home and put the bike into the back of his vehicle and take her home? Why ever he didn’t–he didn’t and she’s dead.
She had her pepper spray with her. She’s dead. She was a bright, pretty young woman who was good to others and well-liked and she’s dead.
Her bike and her pepper spray were no match for a big pickup truck driven by a predator. And she’s dead.
He ran her down on her bike, from behind, put her bike in the back of his pickup and her in the cab and took her away to murder her. He took a knife to her and at one point she got it away from him and cut him badly enough he went to New Orleans to get it taken care of, tossing her bike off the I-10 overpass where we used to get off to go fishing and some hunters found it.
I wish she’d have cut his murdering throat, but she didn’t and she’s dead.
Because she thought she was prepared, she’s dead and a pretty young woman with a sunshine smile and great personality is gone from this world and for what?
I didn’t even know her and the whole thing sickened me and still does. It broke my heart and always will because I’ll never forget this senseless murder. It was just before her 22nd birthday, I think it was her 22nd. She was so young.
Did it matter that the predator didn’t have the right to take her? It matters to all the rest of us, but it didn’t matter to the predator and she’s dead.
You can’t save people from themselves and there’s an older saying: “I buy you books and I buy you books and what to you do? You eat the pages!” An even older saying: “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.”
The young woman did a foolish thing many times and that last time, she didn’t make it back home. She made a fatal decision. Is she to blame? No one forced her to ride that bike? Did she deserve to die for it? No. But she did because she was unwise. Is that blaming the victim? No. It’s assessing a situation that ended up badly to see what lesson there is to learn, but if people start screaming that you’re blaming the victim and people don’t want to hear about that, then others will rush headlong into the same kind of thing.
We were taught not to be foolish because it could kill us. We were shown articles like this one and our parents talked with us about them. They were real life lessons and we respected our parents and listened.
One of the kids we knew stole a car and took a couple of others with him for a joyride that killed all of them. The decisions the other two made to go with him got them killed. The rest of us were real upset about the deaths of people we knew, but we knew the boy shouldn’t have stolen the car in the first place and paid the price for it with the other two. We had been taught to count the cost of our actions and the actions of others.
You can’t save people from themselves.
If the young woman had had a gun, it wouldn’t have made any difference as she was run down on her bike from behind. The real wheel was all bent up. Plus, the predator also had a gun, with which he shot her in the head. And she’s dead.
You know what her biking friends said? They were not going to let what happened to their friend keep them from doing what they wanted to do and would still go anywhere they wanted any time they wanted, on their bicycles. All I could do was shake my head. They learned nothing.
It’s like people, who, upon hearing gunshots, run outside to see what’s going on instead of running the other way. Some things just leave you scratching your head.
It has nothing to do with living your life in fear. It has to do with using your brain and acting wisely and being responsible for your own actions.
That could spoil a lot of predators’ fun.
If you can’t get kids to be wise in their decisions about themselves and they tune you out, then they’re on their own and meet their own fate.
I’m not talking about a break-in, or a true victim.
Use common sense and transpose what I’ve said to college rapes. It’s the same thing. And, NO, the girls don’t deserve to be mauled by a bunch, or even one young man for their foolish choices.
in college, we had co-ed dorm floors. I was in a quad. Across the hall was a diverse group of 4 women, including one who was in the nursing school. She was at a party and DRUNK during freshman year. She came up to me and grabbed my junk and asked if it was true what they say about brothers (think Madeline Khan in Blazing Saddles). I knew she was hammered as she never had any interest in me so I walked her home, pushed her into her room, and closed the door. I sat outside her room when this redneck on my floor (yes, he was a redneck) tried to get in thinking it was a quick score. I told him she was drunk so couldn’t consent and that wasn’t gonna happen. He said the magical n word so I promptly punched him and broke his nose. the next morning, she couldn’t remember that she had propositioned me despite her roommates reminding her (although the redneck made sure to avoid me the rest of the year :-)).
with that said, sorry, but like the prior question of clearing leather for MDA members, getting involved in a domestic issue can get you killed. unless it is someone I know and love/respect, i am gonna mind my business if I cannot protect myself in the even the rejected paramour decides he is gonna fight thru his case of bluebells.
“What a nice guy”
Madeline khan
I had to do this a time or two myself in college, minus the punching of rednecks, always was a personal policy to never go to bed with a girl who had too much. Saved my a** more times than I can count
I had a similar policy with the same outcome. Never had to break a nose. Also wound up in the “he’s a friend” category more than I wanted, but in retrospect that’s a good thing.
what’s amusing is this “redneck” has contacted me thru LinkedIn and wanted to be in my network. I responded to him – how’s the nose? Never heard back. 🙂
^ hahahahahaha!
“Programs like Bringing in the Bystander work to change those perspectives…”
Read this as “Bring your Bystander to Work Program.”
“Whoa, brah, rape is NOT COOL!”
“Don’t tell me how to do my job, brah!”*
*This joke makes me a rapist by Shannon Watts’ standards.
according to press reports, she reported me to the local police and FBI and they laughed at her. 🙂
WHOA!! What are the police and FBI *for*, if not to go goon squad on anyone who rankles Miz Watts’ tender and refined sensibilities?
apparently, in an interview, Shannon relayed that she complained about her home address, damn I keep doing that, MDA corporate HQ address, had been put out there and the police laughed and told her she was dumb for using it to register her “non profit”. . . . . . #winning
I couldn’t find that, but found this wacky article which mentions you and RF.
Analogous to MDA turnouts, they could only muster two commenters.
“40th Anniversary”. What was that thing about doing the same thing over and over again?
Everyone who opposes them is so mean, evil and ornery. Even Robert Farago, TTAG’s “Mr. Nice Guy”.
And I wonder if she had a strange feeling writing “Dirk Diggler”?
Followed your link, found the RF cite, also Dirk and ‘niceguns.’ But this comment takes the cake for me: “insurrectionist pro-gun groups…”
Really? Now supporting the Constitution is ‘insurrectionist?’ To what depths will the insanity plunge?
Par for the course, new comments go to the bit bucket.
In Colorado an 18 year old can legally openly carry a handgun, except for Denver and maybe Arvada. I know for sure there is no open carry for anyone in Denver. Obviously college campuses are mostly “gun free” zones and carry of any type is not permitted last time I checked, I beleive CSU had a proposal to allow concealed carry with a permit. But yes constitutional carry would be a good thing.
There is a trend of lower necklines and higher hemlines, but that doesn’t mean a college age girl (most of them aren’t quite ready to be considered a “woman”) deserve to be raped. How do you preven rape? By not allowing yourself to enter a physical or mental state that lowers or eliminates your ability to realize what’s going on/ leave the situation. It’s okay to go to parties, but if the woman wants to be smart he shouldn’t get blackout drunk, and never leave her drink unattended for that matter.
one reason rape is more prevalent these days is that many people no longer value human life, despite thier age or what nifty generation they fall into.
One more thing is that there are always women who
Like to claim they were raped/ assaulted, and it never actually happened. Women in the Navy or hugely famous for doing this. Every Navy guy I’ve met has a story about a buddy who was accused of rape thy never occurred by female sailor. Typically the female will do it because she knows that she can get ahead of her peers if she isn’t caught in the act.
Putting young males and females together on a crowded ship. What could possibly go wrong with such a politically correct situation?
Seems like I saw a story not too long ago, that they were finally going to allow female naval personnel on submarines. Can anybody substantiate that?
Gunr
Here is a link to what subs they are on. http://www.stripes.com/news/women-to-be-assigned-to-fast-attack-submarines-by-january-2015-1.247547
There are some women who are OUTSTANDING sailors but dealt with a few that thought getting pregnant was a great idea to get out of a 6 month deployment. Didn’t think wait, I have to deal with this great idea for the next 18 years. Knew a number that waited till shore duty then had their children. Seen men well boys who didn’t want to deploy either and did some stupid things that would later regret also.
I would say teach a common sense class in high school, here is what you will deal with when you are on your own. Keep situational awareness at all times, don’t drink to the point you can’t deal with things, nothing on your phone really matters, look at when you’re not driving or walking down the street, how to handle money, teach how to look out for scams, anything that they need to know but parents don’t think to tell them cause they want to shield their children from the evils in the world.
If you find yourself at the point were you are about to be raped, or you need to intervened in an impending rape, then something has already gone very wrong. Lets address the causes and not just the effects.
I believe that the task forces guide lines make sense. I also believe RFs addition of situational awareness, self defense training, and non lethal weapons make sense. I am really not on board with 18 year olds carrying concealed, I know I wasn’t ready. I also think that the sad fact of young peoples abuse of alcohol is perhaps the major factor here
Bloomberg has justified his agenda with the “I wasn’t mature enough at that age, therefore no one is” line. Don’t fall into the same trap of looking down your nose at the people that come after you.
Excellent. But there are few adults Bloomberg can “look down his nose at”; more like looking UP theirs. 😀
This is the world of M. Bloomberg: bags of money and nose hairs.
And I started thinking. Maybe Robert or someone else can find the figures: How many MEN are shot by their girlfriends or wives during the same time period?
Don’t forget stabbed/slashed with kitchen knives, clubbed with a rolling pin or whatever’s at hand, or Bobbitted!
“..I am really not on board with 18 year olds carrying concealed, I know I wasn’t ready.”
You have to be real careful with this one. At 18 we ‘allow’ our ‘children’ to to sign auto loans, sign mortgage papers, sign lease documents, join the military, get married, get divorced, pretty much everything except drinking renting cars or carring weapons.
The ‘test’ is age, not maturity. You don’t want the test to be maturity because I know a couple of kids that are only 17 who are way more mature than a couple of the 40 year olds I work with. I would hand my gun to those two kids way before I would even show my gun to the older guys.
Kerry, it’s funny you should mention that you weren’t ready to carry a firearm at 18, it’s funny because a lot of guys remember 18 differently.
I get your meaning. Just being honest.
I graduated college 3 years ago and when I was school the problem was neither party could consent because they were both drunk, but the man was labeled the rapist and expelled from school, while the woman was labeled the victim. This is the gray area that exists with rape, and often times men come out on the losing end. Universities are in a losing position, if they do nothing because both parties are drunk they aren’t taking a stand and allowing it to happen. If the school punishes both then they are punishing the victim.
Rape is a horrible thing but it is not always a situation with a clear perpetrator and victim.
Unless you’re promulgating this policy, in which case it’s crystal clear. Then the male is by definition the perpetrator, and the female the victim.
That’s really old school and stupid, though.
I couldn’t agree more. Unfortunately the administration and the educrats are treating this as gospel and ignoring reality, as well as due process.
We know booz and guns don’t mix, let them carry and they will quit there drinking, I hope. Do you think that our college kids could handle that? Might be a bad idea. Some of those kids don’t even know who G. Washington was.
“…Do you think that our college kids could handle that?”
If we can’t trust them to be adults at that age then we can’t trust them to be unsupervised meaning they aren’t yet adults.
No one trusts Double Barrell Joe, and the Empty Suit in Chief is an international laughing-stock. I wonder how much they had to pay these Hollyweirdo’s for their staged bits…pathetic.
Sorry, but dont mistake this as editorial criticism, for I am sure that RF is crazyy like a fox, posting this red-meat here….
once the outrage is over, then its time to think….
And I speak more of a concern about ALL of the independent and conservative blogosphere- and propose a different tactic, once the outrage, and mockery is over:
Ignore them, and go under the radar, as they say- doing something to the point that works. Here is why- The Prog-tard propagandists are preparing the battlefield for 2014, and its clear its all about The War On Women, which naturally becomes the GOP hates women, blah blah blah. Its because thats all they have- the economy, foreign policy, trust the NSA not to spy on us, sic the IRS on us, send the DOJ and DHS goons after us…
The fact that they are targeting women is because the polls probably show they are losing them, in mass numbers, and thats why you are seeing the “battlefield preparation” of agitprop and Everytown coordination.
The problem is this weak ‘white knight’ rescuer horse pucky is not gonna fly…look at how many soccer mommies are NOT buying into MDA…
so unless we buy into it, or worse, push back, which gives it validity, they got NOTHING. NOTHING but Slow Joe and HopeyChangey and a few dopey Hollyweirdos. You think the Millenials are buying this? Maybe Lena Dunham and other OFAtards and genderstudies-cant-get-a-job-at-Starbucks types who are too clueless to get out of the rain…
Lets do something to speak the truth, in a positive way, rather than play defense, and let our actions speak louder than words…because I am willing to wager, if you think of 10 or your friends or associates who were nice, positive, hopeful, peaceful types in 2008, or 2012, I am guessing you can think of at least half, who are nervous, upset, afraid- and they aren’t looking for empty promises, to protect them. They are looking for something concrete, to protect their kids, their families, their homes.
You want to prevent rape? Teach someone how to defend themselves, rather than be a victim. And teach yourself- its not about the gun- read this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Facing-Violence-Unexpected-Rory-Miller-ebook/dp/B005BOMP6C/ref=sr_1_2?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1398905305&sr=1-2&keywords=rory+miller+violence
Start small: Take some female work associate or a neighbor to the range, take your kids to Appleseed, get your wife/significant other his/her permit, invite a school teacher, or administrator to join you.
Become an NRA Refuse to Be A Victim instructor- and teach it at schools, community groups, your church.
No more talk, just walk the walk. The need and the opportunity to do good is there- the numbers of new applications for handguns is going up, again, exponentially- that blows up the myth of the grabbers thats its just OFWGs buying yet another toy…I already have my handgun safety cert for the permit, thanks, why would I get another to buy another gun?
and to judge how the pendulum is swinging- look to where they say the trends start- its clear that not all in the Peoples Republic of Kali are clueless as the Progtards in the Kool Klub would like you to believe,
the proof of the numbers of CCW requests in CA is overwhelming, in one CA county the Sheriff is having to hire 15 people to process the paperwork –
and thats just one of 57 counties, wait until Peruta is affirmed….
So even if the PR Propagandists and their enablers in the StateRunMedia put out a polished puff piece every DAY, its clear a big part of formerly non-gun-owning America is JUST NOT BUYING IT, and when you lose the soccer moms, thats it. Over, done. Finito.
What will you tell your kids when they ask you,
“Daddy, what did you do in the Great War on the Culture?”
….uhhh… I posted comments in a gun blog?
Wow… Just – wow. Didn’t even mention pepper spray or bunching your keys.
Wow.
Many people in general aren’t stupid when it comes to their own safety.
When I was in school, quite a few girls I knew took advantage of the self defense classes. They weren’t that great, but anything is better than nothing.
However, as others above have said, college “rape” can be a really big grey area.
There isn’t going to be any self defense involved if both people are drunk as a skunk.
In this case, I would find it interesting if the /man/ reported the woman for rape. I am getting tired of sexist social norms.
The fact is, many a man has regretted what happened the night before due to his dulled, drunken reason too. I have known guys who were taken advantage of by girls who otherwise would have never had a shot.
It happens.
Just like with within divorce law, I believe in and promote gender equality – and equal is equal. That means in disputes one gender is not automatically equated as the victim.
If anything, I think this mentality is demeaning to women.
“If anything, I think this mentality is demeaning to women.”
As a woman, I absolutely agree with this. I have always believed that we women need to exercise common sense (real common sense, not Everytown “common sense”) and good judgment. Do I have a right to wear Julia Roberts’ “Erin Brockovich” wardrobe in the sleaziest dive bar in town and get stinking drunk on tequila shots? Yes. Is it a good idea to do so? Not so much. Hence, I’m not going to be likely to do so.
I do get the “don’t blame the victim” thing. Much of that is a reaction to the not so good ole’ days where the victim in a sexual assault trial was typically put on trial for her attire, her behavior, etc. As a society, we correctly recognized how reprehensible that is. And we correctly recognize that you can do everything right and still be a victim. But as with all things, the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction from victim-blaming. The language in the White House’s initiative appears to be part of the pendulum swinging too far.
We all need to be educating our young people – regardless of gender – on appropriate behavior and on common sense and good judgment. I don’t care what side of the political divide you’re on, it’s just good sense.
The moral of the story with this upcoming crackdown for all non-rapists is this: Try to avoid chicks that are level 10 drunk, and always wrap it before you tap it. Accidental babies and STDs are a good instigator for false rape charges. And no matter how negative the GHB test is, “He took advantage of me!” is sometimes all it takes to get locked up if you don’t pony up for a good lawyer.
Happened to a friend of mine in high school. The nerdiest, wimpiest kid you ever met. Never hurt a fly. The chick he hooked up with had him by about 100 pounds. Lost his virginity, became a daddy, and got thrown in the hoosegow. Alcohol+desperation/hormones + boredom = regret.
Looking at a lot of this from the perspective of having logged nearly a half century, a big part of “college rape” (to distinguish it from true stranger rape) is impulse control….by both parties.
This seems to me a consequence of the 60’s attitude that has permeated our whole society…”if it feels good, do it.” We extend that to “you only live once” and all the “live for right now, carpe diem!” indulgent philosophies.
Those ideas, carpe diem and you only live once are GOOD philosophies, but they have to be moderated against foolish impulsiveness. “Hey ya’ll, watch this,” for example, is the opposite of one moderating impulses.
I’ll never play “blame the victim” in sexual assault, but I also think that what has come to be called “rape” on college campus bears at least an examination of a total series of decisions…decisions made at the time as if they are consequence free.
In other words…I cannot for the life of me figure out why, if ‘date rape’ and ‘I was too drunk, he took advantage of me’ has gotten so out of hand that young women continue to go to binge drinking frat parties at all.
No woman deserves to be raped. But they can also take risk mitigation steps to try to prevent it. Not putting oneself into such a vulnerable position seems a good first step. It may not STOP it completely, but lowering odds is lowering odds.
Having worked on a large college campus, I saw how destructive the ‘party culture’ can be. It may not completely devour everyone, but it sure eats up a lot of them.
Young men and women (I refuse to call 18-20 year olds “kids”) need to act like they have some sense, dignity and sense of responsibility.
Feminist Advocate asking questions of college coed: “have you ever been verbally persuaded to have sex when you did not want too?”
Coed: “yes”
Feminist asking questions: “you are a victim of rape”.
Coed: “yes, I guess I was victimized”.
A few years ago, Daniel Craig cross-dressed in drag to advocate for feminism and egalitarianism. Craig is also on record for being against gun ownership by private citizens and British subjects. I’ve stopped going to his movies.
“they overestimate their peers’ acceptance of sexual assault and underestimate other men’s willingness to intervene when a woman is in trouble. And when men think their peers don’t object to abusive behavior, they are much less likely to step in and help.”
I just have a problem with the logic of this statement. If it were true; that men are less likely to step in and help, then how is this underestimating anything?
Precisely. It’s a non-sequitur, worded in such a way as to slip by normal levels of scrutiny.
I agree with HorribleIdea completely and it is what drives my disagreement with the death penalty. One American citizen erroneously deprived of his/her life is one too many, especially in light if an adversarial legal system which rewards prosecutors for the number of successful prosecutions they make, not the amount of cases resolved justly. Forced castration is a horrible idea.
I feel much the same way. However, allow me to postulate a plausible scenario. A convict is doing life without any possibility of parole. Would he not feel emboldened to kill a prison guard (or even another prisoner), if he’s already serving the maximum penalty under the law?
The companion question, of course, is would the death penalty serve as a deterrent to him committing the same murder? Still and all, should we not be obligated to put him to death, so that he will be unable to kill anyone else?
Killing in self-defense is one thing, but putting together a dozen and a half people to make a very solemn decision to take another human being’s life is way too much like premeditated murder. Nothing is going to bring the victim back, and life in prison will keep him from killing again (assuming idealized prisons). I can’t imagine any other reason to want to kill the murderer other than revenge or retribution, or to
satisfyappease the bloodlust of the lynch mob.If there’s any execution to be done, let it be done summarily by the self-defense tool of the intended victim.
Because no prisoner has ever killed another prisoner. Nor a guard.
“Because no prisoner has ever killed another prisoner. Nor a guard.”
Burke, that’s such a transparent strawman, I’m almost ashamed for you.
You actually do know the difference between sarcasm and a straw man argument. Stop pretending you don’t. It’s unbecoming.
This article caused me to take a mental step back to consider a larger question: Could this be an indication of the Progressives conceding that disarming everyone may not be such a dandy idea after all?
College camupses are for the most part “Gun/Knife Free.” Progs love the idea. The Liberal Utopia realized! But that also carries with it complete and total dependence on “the authorities” for protection. But “the authorities” (i.e., kampus kops) are usually only available to take reports and clean up the mess after an incident takes place. So how do the potential victims (i.e., “PREY”) obtain protection? BIG DILEMMA.
The victims can’t be armed for self defense => “Gun/Knife Free Campus.” But rapes (and other violent crimes) routinely take place. What to do????
If they were honest with themselves, I’d say yes. But there is a disconnect from observable reality that prevents that.
Or, even more insidious…yes, they recognize these things but do not care. Admitting that does not serve their larger, collectivist (whole is more important than the parts) goals.
Sacrifice a few young women on the alter of more centralization of power? Sure, if that’s what it takes.
It’s a logical conclusion given the facts. They are the same ones that argue against strong sentencing or for early release based on rehabilitation; they are the ones that argue against effective self defense options; they are the ones that make excuses for crimes and criminals rather than adopting straightforward points of view that are simple in scope. There’s always a “special case” pointed to to attempt to nullify the broader conclusions.
So, with these facts, we see no matter what they SAY, what they DO is allow for further victimization of women. Their actions are not to stop it. WHY they do this is certainly up to debate or discussion. But it cannot be rationally argued that they do it.
I’m surprised at the way this group of people who claim that at least part of their gun use is to be able to help people in danger are so resistant to the idea of being asked to take action as a bystander. It almost seems as if most commenters here are getting their knowledge of rape from stereotypes and what “everyone knows,” rather than listening to survivors and experts, exactly the way anti-gunners get their info about guns.
Like dressing too sexy, for example. Women were raped in the Victorian age, and they hardly showed their ankles. Women in burqas are raped and that’s as covered up as you can get. Men are raped – what exactly do they wear to invite it? The real message behind this so-called common knowledge is to make the rapist choose a different person. It actually does nothing to prevent the issue of rape. It doesn’t address the rapist at all and ignores male victims of both men and women.
Bystander intervention can prevent a rape at the moment it’s used, like in Dirk’s actions or a million other examples, but it also works to reduce a rapist’s license to operate (Google it), the thing that turns a rapist into a natural phenomenon, something that “happens to” a person, rather than a perpetrator who chooses to rape or a willfully ignorant person who refuses to admit what they are doing is rape. Redneck learned that if Dirk was around he wouldn’t get the opportunity to do what he wanted. This is the other part that’s needed to work alongside situational awareness, etc.
Some people are never going to be ready to use their fists or a gun and it shouldn’t be acceptable for those people to experience rape if they don’t follow a strict list of dos and don’ts that have been shown not to work.
For fuck’s sake, in colleges these days you get kicked out for plagiarism but not rape. Think about that.
“Bystander intervention can prevent a rape at the moment it’s used,”
When is the last time you’ve heard of there being a bystander at a rape? =:-O
Two words: GANG RAPE.
Well, I really wouldn’t consider the participants of a gang rape to be bystanders in any case, let alone someone whom I’d exhort to intervene on the girl’s behalf.
[EDIT]
Unless, of course, such intervention would be to clear her .38 and hand it back to her.
Well, one is raping while the others are standing by. On standby.
“Well, one is raping while the others are standing by.”
Yeah, and they’re the ones that the activists are exhorting to intervene?
Could be.
Dirk gave a great example of a time a bystander acted and prevented a rape, for one. Use your imagination, people.
* Let me get you a cab or call a friend to take you home
* Back off man, they said to leave them alone
* Hey, don’t go in that room where someone is sleeping
* Something is going down, I’m stopping it/calling the cops (like what should have happened in Steubenville)
* the list goes on…
This sounds exactly like the “Sexual Assault Prevention” trainings that members of the military are constantly made to sit through.
Maybe if they would stop making us helpless victims on our own bases….
a thorough perusal has allowed me to determine that ‘this’ juicy can of corn has been left to dangle. and so, frog baseball: of course the navy gals become pregnant. those subs are filled with seamen.
i seem to remember references (not here) surprisingly often that list the frequency of males being raped as well. just sayin’. included in some statistics.
+1 on the ‘common sense’ education mentioned above. my kids don’t run wild like we did, but they sure as hell have a greater sense of awareness.
my daughter knows that the strength in her legs can deflect and prevent some unwanted advances effectively. beyond that…
keep ’em local for a couple years of community college before launching them. that whole circus can wait awhile.
give me plunging necklines and shart skeerts all day. stilettos laced all the way up? i really should get those divots on my fuel tank fixed… nah.
cue black flag’s ‘slip it in’.
no means no.
absolutely.
Well, if we sat aside the fact that I’m a pacifist and would rather see no military at all. (in a nutshell, no other country has a big enough army to occupy mainland USA, and there would be a rifle behind every tree.), I believe that as long as there are submarines and ships and stuff, then the one who makes the decision should be the individual woman, but if anyone signs up for a certain commitment, they should agree to not get knocked up during that period of service, by whatever means she finds works. And, of course, meet the actual physical requirements, which on a sub can’t be very demanding – probably the smaller size and limberness would be assets on a sub. If it were possible to have half women (plus whatever proportion of gay & partners) and free birth control, then we’d sure have a bunch of happy sailors!
Okay, I’ll make myself extremely unpopular here and take the heat of criticism. This past Spring Fox News spent some time in Florida reporting on the College Spring Break and interviewing multiple young people directly on the beaches. They observed cases of “Students” drinking alcohol to the point of being staggering drunk in the morning well before noon, smoking marijuana in combination with the alcohol, both sexes scantily clad in bathing suits that on many of the young ladies were indecent and obscene, young women barring their breasts and lady parts. young men and women engaging in sexual acts, including full intercourse, with multiple partners in public on the beach, and all kinds of other debauchery. Interviewees told Fox they were there to drink alcohol, smoke pot, get sex and do it all as much as possible with as many people as possible. They asked on young woman if she was concerned about what her Parents would think to which she replied, “I don’t give a f**k what my parents think!”, which was supported by several others around her cheering in agreement. Fox featured multiple shots where they had to “Censore-out” bare breasts and butts. Some Students readily agreed this level of “partying” was pretty standard weekend-to-weekend at their college, but “better” during Spring Break because you got to “party”with people from all over.
All that being said, my question would be, “If you’re in a College “party” scene, how in the hell would you know who’s consenting to what, or who thinks they might be being raped?” I don’t condone or defend this wild behavior, nor cite is as an “excuse” for the violent, reprehensible crime of forcible rape. At the same time, it sure as hell looks like these young people are pretty much aware of what they are doing, including the massive consumption of alcohol and recreational drugs for the express purpose of getting excessively intoxicated. We all know that extreme drunkenness and drug intoxication lowers…hell…obliterates inhibitions and good sense, while often stimulating libido. So, how many of these epidemic “college rapes” are just bad conscience and regret “the morning after”? Consider the case of Florida State University and the accusation of rape lodged against James Winston (Heisman Trophy Winner). Although there are legitimate questions still unanswered about this case, it seems to typify what’s going on at these College Campuses.
I have no doubt there are cases of young women. who are not intoxicated to the point of stupidity, being sexually assaulted by young men who are, or who bear criminal intent and think they can “get away with it”, but it seems clear to me that there is a hedonist cultural bias that these young people accept, tolerate and frequently eagerly participate in that constitutes the root of this situation.
“Bystander Inervention”? What a bad joke…on a par with the Government recommendation that in a situation where you are confronted by an “active shooter” you should get “a pair of scissors” and try to fend off the shooter. WTF? At these college orgies it is far more likely the “Bystanders” are just “waiting in line” for their turn than that they actually give a damn if some semi-conscious young woman is being gang raped. Who would admit that in a touchy feely “listening group”? A guy who wants to brand himself “pariah”?
Now, let’s go give all these young ladies guns and training… then what? Next we’re trying to sort out how it is that Sally shot Johnny to death because in their mutually drunken drugged stupor sexual encounter she suddenly decided Johnny was raping her, pulled her gat and made bloody Swiss cheese out of him?
Okay, so this is a harsh assessment of College Students, and I own up to that. There are a lot of decent young people in the Colleges and I am not throwing all of them under the proverbial Bus, but goddammit there’s a lot of this unrestrained, unacknowledged plain old bad behavior, as well. It’s being swept under the rug so as to avoid having to tell a bunch of parents and Alumni that their little darlings are drunks, druggies and sexual libertines who need to change their behavior and exert some self control. I have no illusions this will happen because these youngsters grew-up in a Pop culture that their parents enabled and tacitly supported that taught them a set of dysfunctional values and social norms (alcohol and drugs won’t really hurt you, sex is for fun and entertainment {and if there’s an ‘accident’ you can get an abortion through the College Health Center without your parents ever knowing}, it’s more important to be ‘cool’ and ‘fit in’). They were educated in a school system that taught them “everyone’s a winner” and “it’s not you fault” . So, now, out on their own, they “act-out” all this moral and social dysfunction, consume intoxicants for the purpose of getting as intoxicated as possible, engage in reckless sexual activity and think it’s all okay “because College is so stressful and I have a right to ‘feel good'”. and the rest of us are surprised and shocked by this behavior? One final time..WTF?
These are the opinions and perceptions of DerryM. I own them, believe them, and submit them freely for your critique. I will read any and all comments in response, but don’t intend to spend any time defending them. So, have fun!
OOOOH, that is so harsh of you! Of course, it is quite true, so that will make it even more offensive to the politically correct crowd. For some reason, the current pop culture in the US keeps reminding me of the last days of the Roman Empire.
While I understand with what you’re saying, and I generally agree, the fact stands that a number of rapes take place on campus, and on the way home from evening classes. (Which we all loved, because it meant we got to “sleep it off” on certain days.)
Moreover, many of those are committed by non-student interlopers from off-campus, taking the dangling live, long-legged bait.
Yes, I agree with your points. They are true and those types of rapes could be diminished/prevented if female students were allowed to be armed and Conceal Carry, or receive some sort of self-defense training and armament. This Government Task Force of “listening groups” is laughable because the outside interlopers you pointed-out aren’t going to attend those groups. Trying to encourage Students who attend those groups to intervene is a low probability, high risk (to the potential victims) strategy. Rapists are likely to be more aware of who’s around when they chose a victim, so the “intervention” strategy is about as efficacious as the “get a pair of scissors and try to disarm an ‘active shooter’ ” strategy.
Ok now mr. Rapist ,I’m going to chant and blow feary dust,and when I’m done you need to leave and I really mean It!
@derrym: first off, any barring of breasts and lady parts should be outlawed.
‘bad behavior’ in this context would be non- consensual sex. that includes receiving when unconcious. as i said no means no. absolutely. wild ass permiscuous behavior, well… too many shades of grey there for me. i declare a habeas corpus writ of kids will be kids.
finally, and again strictly speaking in this context of rape, ‘when confronted by an active shooter, get a pair of scissors and lop off the shooter’ seems like damn good advice.
No wonder we carry guns with Aholes like this running things you’d be stupid not too!I’m just sayin!
When I was a senior at Indiana University we had a serial rapist on campus. What finally ended the horror was when he attempted yet another rape on a student who was trained in self defense. She was able to drop him with a knee to the groin, giving her enough time to call the police who arrested him.
That is the only way to stop rape. No program devised from within the Washington Beltway would have stopped that monster.
The only better outcome would have been IU allowing guns on campus and her shooting instead of kicking him in the balls.
Bye the way, why isn’t Joe Biden recommending double barrel shotguns to students?
The establishment will fight tooth and nail – they’ll do anything they can get away with – to prevent women from realizing their own power and self-worth. They’re terrified of Free, independent women who won’t just roll over and ask for more abuse. And a woman doesn’t have to be a “feminazi” to have self-respect.
I’d bet real money that there has never ever been a case of an armed woman getting raped. How would one go about looking up something like that?
I agree. But I haven’t seen “real money” in my 66 years, having been born WAY after 1913.
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