Why We Sued to Open New Jersey Gun Stores: 700 NJ Cops Test Positive for COVID19

1. The real question is: Since many states and cities have suspended gun and ammo sales, if a person was trying to get a firearm for self/home defense gets attacked and injured or killed because they were stopped from purchasing the firearm and could not defend themselves, who gets held liable for that loss? I am pretty sure the Second Amendment does not have a clause for suspending the Natural Right if a virus breaks out.

   When a store post a No Gun sign, I can shop elsewhere or shop there at my own risk. When a State or Local official makes such a law and takes no measures to provide you with security, it seems they would be held liable for damages/losses.

   • Good question, but I believe there is no legal recourse or relief.

     Unless…you preemptively notify your local PD or Sheriff Dept in writing that you fear for your safety and have been hampered by [insert governing Authority here] declaration that your 2A right has been violated, and you have been left vulnerable. You will very likely receive no response, but if you provide copies to a couple of trusted relatives (not friends, but family, as family would have the legal standing to press a lawsuit), then if you’re ever threatened, harmed, or (God forbid) killed by someone with a gun, the Authority can be sued with the evidence that you provided advance notice of the perceived danger.

   • There”s no guarantee of protection or that laws won’t effect you negatively. Your only possible recourse is suing for denial of civil rights, but it’s a long row to hoe, especially in a Dem controlled state.

   • None. Be prepared.

2. If I’m not mistaken, the Govenor is protected by the State Police. It would be a shame if those officers on the protection detail came down with COVID19 and had to be quarantined. The Govenor would be exposed to the same individual dangers as the rest of us lowly plebs. What ever is a Govenor to do?

   • @California Richard:
     “What ever is a Governor to do?”

     Well, I have an unprintable suggestion…

     • You mean you would tell him to GFY?

   • 1/ Not all Governors benefit from such security, occasionally and for some events sure. Asp, most people in a state wouldn’t even recognize their Governor if they were standing next to him.
     2/ If ALL state cops assigned to the security detail were sick, the Governor and chief of the State Police/Highway Patrol can pull some state cops from another unit and assign them to this security detail. Not all of them are going to be sick obviously, they’ll always find cops even if it’s the zombie apocalypse.
     3/ Governors make enough money to pay for private, armed security if it came down to that.

3. Also,…. in the picture of the above cop: the mask doesn’t work if you aren’t wearing it. And, I would highly advise you don’t store it on your gun belt with the “clean side” touching your arm, radio, and ASP. Maybe the mask helps him feel better? What ever gets him through the day I guess.

   • Maybe he was told to have a mask available and he doesn’t panic with the current situation. He just follows policies, usually written by folks who are certainly not patrolling the streets. I really don’t think he puts it there just for fun or to feel better, they have enough stuff on their duty belt. On the other hand I wouldn’t want to wear a mask during most of a 10 or 12hrs shift either.

     • I didn’t want to wear MOPP gear in iraq, but I did.

4. I’m not interested in trying to convince people. They are simply the enemy. They want the citizens raped torchered, kidnapped. Never not be seen again. And they are surrounded by armed guards.

   • edit
     They want citizens raped, tortured, kidnapped. Never to be seen again. Because fear keeps a population in line. They are less likely to cause trouble for the government.

     • to be fair, “torchiered” could be pretty nasty.

       • And here I thought that word ‘ torchered ’meant some akin to being tied to a stake or pole, covered with lard and a blazing fire 🔥 started around one’s legs. Being burned at the stake slowly is tortured death.

       • “Being burned at the stake slowly is tortured death.”

         Go slow enough, the wounds self-cauterize… 🙂

   • Agreed.

5. 700 is about 2% of NJ’s sworn officers (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_agencies_in_New_Jersey) so I don’t think they’re at crisis levels quite yet. (Granted the actual infection rate is likely higher.)

   Still, though, it’d be good to get the gun stores open again … even better if NJ can be compelled to drop it’s more onerous restrictions.

   • No one of consequence,

     700 is about 2% of NJ’s sworn officers

     Good to hear that they have not hit the 20% mark (either testing positive or quarantined) like Detroit Police Department where even their Chief of Police is COVID-19 positive and unable to work.

     Give it time, though, and I suspect New Jersey will be in a similar situation, along with New York City police.

   • The “tested positive” rate is not particularly relevant unless every cop is tested. The real indicator is when you see out sick numbers skyrocket. First, because tests are still scarce and second because the ones we have still have a delay in results of days.

6. Hate to say it folks. You are on your own as far as safety and security goes. If you aren’t stocked up and stored up. It best happen soon. The time to Bunker In is Nigh. Maintain OP SEC and Lock/Load. The Shit Show is about to start.

   • yeah. no.

     • tsbhoa.p.jr,

       I believe some version of a $hit show will happen very soon unless there is a breakthrough COVID-19 cure in the next couple weeks.

       I only see two possibilities at this point:

       (1) We eliminate the nation-wide “stay at home” order, everyone resumes their normal activity, something like 4 to 10 million people die in the next three months from COVID-19 or lack of care for non-COVID-19 illness due to COVID-19 patients overwhelming hospitals, and widespread chaos ensues.

       (2) We continue to “stay at home” for the next several months, society collapses, and widespread chaos ensues.

       Either way you slice it, I don’t see how we come out on the other side of this virus thing without massive disruption and chaos — unless there is a breakthrough cure in the next few weeks as I stated.

       • you, sir, as an even keeled stalwart recieve from me only respectful disagreement.
         hoodlums will become emboldened. activities will increase.
         tribal frictions will fray and spark.
         i’m not sayin’ we wrap up by easter.
         just, i’ve got some may flowers to smell.
         you betcha. and if you’re right, well. i’ve always wanted to ride around with a bandolier, a robusto and a gimbal mounted high ball cup.

       • except after c.
         my apologies.
         remember edit?

       • Yet another alternate, hospitals get slowly overwhelmed and patients in overflow areas are relocated to hospitals that are only strained creating a cascade of medical panic emanating from a few metopolitan outbreak zones (NYC, Detroit, New Orleans, probably Atlanta and either San Francisco or LA). In the medical panic there is an understandable uptick in chaos (nurgle and khorn) that may lead to opportunistic predation and abuse of citizens’ rights by various forms of criminal. Depending on manpower and logistical realities some areas go full martial law and others are more cooperative in ways that will give the ACLU and others fits. Plague burns out and the next 2 decades of lawsuits begin.

       • Here’s a third alternative… net the system as a whole accumulates some knowledge n responds differently.

         The “official” mandates relax; people, informed by the experience, make their own choices about how to behave; there’s a general reduction in stupid risk taking, and a general increse in precautions; most economic and social activity resumes in the short term, economic volume closes in on “same as it ever was” in the medium term, and in the long term Darwin’s Dangerous Idea does it work and we’re generally better for it.

         Really, some slightly different behavior during flu seasons, and dealing with general human exposure is simply prudent. We have gaggles of people trained that rubbing up on strangers, breathing each others’ air is consquence free. Moving the needle a little is a better optimum.

       • Behavior changes?

         You wanna make a committed urbanist utopian go off, just note the precarious, far-flung intrastruction n supply chain it takes to keep their warrens alive.

         For bonus points, note that perhaps they should pay for resources they appropriate from other locations: water feeding aqueducts, for example.

       • I suspect this is accurate. There will be a shitshow, but it will be regional and rolling. NYC is approaching shitshow right now.

     • delusional. Shit poster or not, the shit is already being flung towards the fan. It’s clear your lack of “care” is more a lack of ability to assess the situation. Shit post all you want, it won’t save you no matter how secluded you feel.

       • If he’s in a rural area of the country he can probably sit pretty and be correct for his area. It is urban areas that will be bit hardest by this. Healthcare in rural areas will also be severely impacted but emergency services are less needed and more distributed.

7. Civil war is likely inevitable, with military police in lockstep with civvy PD’s to track down “Escape from New Yorkers” we are very close to Posse Comitatus being tossed in the hopper. Going door to door, treating citizens like terrorists, whats next, banning currency in favor of electronic “credits”? Social scoring like the Chi-Coms do, at what point do we say enough of this prison mentality, you the gubbermint serve we, the people, so bow down and serve? Believe none of what your hear and half of what you see worked before the interwebs. Now its all just bs propaganda.

8. When internet and cell service goes “offline” wink-wink, the shit-show begins in earnest.

   • that would go along way towards thwarting a little phenomenon round these parts known as wilding.
     and would barely affect me at all.

     • No one asked, go eat your Spam and write your manifesto.

       • i don’t need encouragement. i offer up my shiteposts voluntarily. i suspect individuals such as yourself benefit from them the most, unbeknowingstly.
         i have a wonderful embroidered spam sweat shirt purchased directly from hormel/ armour. i used to have sweat pants as well. dried them by the fire in the quetico, had that resultant char repaired in the himalayan mountains of nepal. when a spiraling into the abyss booze/ crack addled pal of mine needed clothing, my wife gave him those as they reminded her of the gal i went to europe/ asia with.
         i have never eaten spam. i have seen others eat potted meat product. enjoy your pablum, cup chees, hardtack and pemmican.

9. The Second Amendment Foundation. Not the NRA.

   • mmm… clarity.

     • Wisdom once again from the troll.

       • troll: someone who lives under your bridge.
         shite poster: self amused individual who doesn’t care about much.

       • Not a troll. He’s been here a long time, he just has a different sense of humor than you.

       • Uh no, he’s definitely trolling and @nothulk is biting! LOL

10. This is a wake-up call.

    We have all known that when seconds count the police are just minutes away.
    But today, the unarmed are beginning to wake up to the fact that the police are more apt to be hours or days away; if they ever come at all.

    I wonder about the thousands – or are they hundreds of thousands – of first time gun buyers walking out the doors of their friendly neighborhood gun shops with a gun and a box of cartridges in a plain brown wrapper. I doubt that the busy sales reps had the time to review the manual of arms with these new buyers or refer them to a local instructor for First Steps Pistol. These folks probably don’t know where the nearest range is; or whether it’s open.

    Hopefully, they won’t experience any sort of incident before CCP Virus blows over; and, thereafter, they will seek out training. Somehow, I am not so sure a majority will. Most will return to the urgency of getting their lives back together. The Glock will remain unattended in a desk drawer.

    If the gun controllers’ and hoplophobes’ concern is about “gun safety”, why are they not climbing on a bandwagon to encourage all new gun owners to:
    – begin a self-study program;
    – seek out a vet or other gun owner for coaching;
    – find an instructor for a formalized course of study?

    Why didn’t they begin such a campaign BEFORE the CCP Virus crisis today? Why aren’t they doing so today with innumerable first time owners rushing out to buy guns without prior study, coaching or training?

    Perhaps they have created the worst of the alternatives. Sort of like the debate over sex education. There are those who argue that it’s best not to teach sex education because that will just encourage people to engage in the practice. Nevertheless, human nature being what it is, eventually, the urge to initiate a behavior (whether procreative or self-preservation) will prevail and , in the pursuit of life, liberty or happyness, the individual will venture forth ill prepared for the awesome responsibility.

    There are those who would argue for a formal government sanction requiring education, testing and licensing before one is permitted to engage in a dangerous practice; e.g., such as procreation or self-preservation. The countervailing argument is that life, liberty and happiness are natural rights not subject to abridgement or infringement. Certainly worthy philosophical debates.

    Nevertheless, we routinely offer education and training in schools, especially public schools, on biology if not sex specifically, driver’s education, industrial arts, home economics and the mighty use of the pen. We even teach youngsters in the ancient art of swordplay in fencing classes and tournaments. Why do we not teach gun safety to all school children?

    • What our public schools fail to teach we, as their parents have already taken care of.
      With 4H and Junior Rifle League’s and ample range time along with courses on hunting and prepping squirrel, deer etc our kids are ahead of the curve. Coupled with courses on wilderness survival we are very confident in our children. Knowledge is power as they say and when their friends see all the “cool sh*t” they are involved in, the desire to learn it has grown. Not all kids lock themselves away with an Xbox, thankfully.

    • MarkPA,

      Hopefully, [Progressive new firearm owners] will seek out training.

      I seriously doubt it. One hallmark of Progressives is a superiority complex — they are our “betters” and know what is best for the masses. Since they are elite and superior, they do not need outside training (in their minds).

      I have first hand knowledge with such people. It becomes taxing after a while working with them because they are always “right” and know how to do everything, and I am always “wrong” and could never provide any instruction or insight that they do not already know.

      • “I seriously doubt it. One hallmark of Progressives is a superiority complex — they are our “betters” and know what is best for the masses.”

        I’m not so sure…

        A good percentage will hit YouTube for information, and hopefully, they will click on the good ones.

        I can dream, can’t I?

    • All sheltered school kids know about firearms is what dropped from mini mike’s behind combined with gangster movies and the NRA is evil, etc. Their parents can be just as ignorant if not more.
      Gullible parents drop their kids off in a “Gun Free Zone” and a deranged individual takes advantage of that sign and the beaurcrats who lured gullible parents into believing their kids were safe get a complete pass.
      It’s the fault of the NRA and every gun owner in America should pay by having their guns taken away yada, yada.
      The problem is there are politically inept history illiterates who stand for nothing and fall for anything that vote. And there are gun owning slackers who don’t vote. Everyone that votes against tyrants pulls the wagon.

11. The bottom line is…The Gov. is another ignorant self serving democRat POS.

12. “Gov. Phil Murphy needs to understand the Second Amendment wasn’t written for duck hunters,”

    He needs to understand that he is just another would be petty Tyrant in a long line of them, who needs to go Eff a Duck,as he is a rather pathetic little twerp.

    • Police Superintendent Col. Patrick Callahan, New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy, looks like New Jersey is picking up the Irish tyrants where the Daleys left off in Chicago.

13. Nj is in a sad state. Criminals being released from jails-no jobs etc. Months ago the bail reform actually lock up no one aside maybe murder. NY let many more criminals out in January. NJ has basically no private sales and a Firearms I D card is needed for any purchase. The I D card plus a pistol permit for a hand gun. These items have the same paperwork and are by law supposed to be granted by 30 days of applying. Never happens most times months and months to acquire. So anyone recently in the held up NICS check were waiting already a long time for a hand gun. Sad situation the governor hates for citizens to protect themselves while he has a large armed group of state police protection. There is virtually no ccp in NJ aside from retired police and the connected chosen few.

14. While I applaud the lawsuit to reopen the gun shops here, there are other problems we face.
    1) Background checks are handled through the State Police and
    2) We are required to go to our local police department to apply for our Firearms Purchase ID card and each permit to purchase a pistol (one permit=one handgun a month) which can take months to get in some towns.
    They’ll open up the gun shops, but won’t restaff the dept of the NJSP that handles NICS.
    Townships won’t process any applications for new FID cards or new pistol permits because the people that handle that paperwork are nonessential or something along those lines.

15. All of these governmental unit “officials” whom suspend
    the 2nd Amendment can GO TO HELL!!

    I am disappoint with the GOA, which appears to have gone
    AWOL, in this important issue!

    God bless The Second Amendment Foundation for their decisive
    action.

    In appreciation, we shall be joining their membership in the coming
    months.

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