Tragedy struck the Seattle Center on Friday, November 2, as a man’s argument with his former girlfriend escalated to murder. The woman, 28-year-old Gabrielle Garcia, was with their five-year-old son at the time and had a standing no-contact order against the father. In full view of his own child as well as many witnesses, the man stabbed Garcia repeatedly, inflicting fatal injuries.
The man, identified as 29-year-old David Lee Morris, then walked out of the Seattle Center Armory (an indoor dining area) and into the street, still holding the knife and covered in blood. There, he was met by Scott Brown, who works at Skillet restaurant in Seattle Center. It was Brown’s day off, and he was dropping by to say hi to friends.
“I have a concealed weapons license,” said Brown. “[Morris] was just walking away calmly… I got next to him and I pulled out my gun and stepped in front of him. As soon as he saw that I had a firearm, he started trying to convince me to shoot him. He just kept trying to convince me to shoot him, and I didn’t want to shoot him.”
Brown did not end up having to shoot Morris (although, based on the video and witness reports, he would have had ample justification).
“Both of his hands were bloody… He was just walking toward the man with the gun,” said Eric DeAngelo, a bystander who recorded a video of the full takedown (see below). “Kept walking toward him. I don’t know what his intention was.”
Morris continued walking toward Brown, asking him to kill him, while Brown kept walking backwards, keeping Morris in his sights for several long minutes.
“I just kept trying to get him to put down the knife,” Brown recalled, “and we kept walking backwards and backwards and backwards. Way too long. I kept looking around for police, security… the point was to hold his focus. There were people everywhere.”
At last, another bystander helped subdue Morris with pepper spray until police arrived and took control. In DeAngelo’s video (around 1:45), you can see Brown looking visibly relieved as he finally puts down his gun.
According to detectives, Morris had considered killing Garcia in April or May, but decided to try to “rehabilitate their relationship” instead. According to him, the relationship was “off and on.” He accused her of “having other boyfriends,” which he “feels is inappropriate.” Morris told detectives he killed his son’s mother “to make a better life for [him].”
There’s a stark contrast with Scott Brown’ words: “Me personally, I never wanted to pull my gun out ever, not on an animal, not on a person. I carry it for protection.”
The child was not physically injured and will be raised by Garcia’s parents.
Good job Mr. Brown. I’m happy another person decided to help.
This comment is posted without reviewing the video –due to one basic assumption/reason:
— Presenting a firearm, or weapon of choice (in public), in defense of self and/or others against an imminent threat of bodily harm and/or death, clearly means — the time for talk has expired*
MINDSET:
I’ll not present a loaded weapon (in public), then start talking/negotiating with the threat.
THINK:
If you are not a LEO, why are you trying to capture or hold a perp/actor (at the violence level) shown in this post? If a ‘Defensive Gun User’ presents a weapon (in public), everyone with a camera, as well as nearby buildings and others, will be –and/or– wanting to capture images of the person with a weapon.
Can you imagine the various possible captions when this gets submitted to YouTube and social media sites?
THE POKER GAME:
Maybe ‘this’ actor was calling and raising Mr. CCW, or perhaps bluffing. In any event, while this ‘call & raise’ or bluffing was taking place, the actor was advancing towards Mr. CCW; according to this/the above article. It appears the CCW holder –did not– have the mindset to immediately recognize his current threat and follow through, but would rather negotiate/talk with a confirmed actor who has just committed a bloody act of violence onto a person with which he was once intimate.
If/once the actor concluded such a bloody performance, with weapon still in hand, in all its bloody covered glory, while continuing to advance towards Mr. CCW –during this ‘poker game–, exactly why does Mr. CCW (or anyone) think this is a time to present a weapon and begin to talk/negotiate?
To Mr. CCW, those who assisted, and others like them, I applaud your efforts. However, rethink your intervention strategy/tactics. I truly believe, the actor was not bluffing and did not ‘want’ to be shot/killed. He was closing the reactionary gap. Remember, he has already had the ex_girl friend for the main course; you were desert.
Now the taxpayers have another bill to pay while he is incarcerated.
Whatever, dude. IF cops were more like THIS dude, we’d ALL be safer.
This dude is extremely lucky the killer didn’t decide to force his hand by trying to kill him. His heart was in the right place but his mind wasn’t. I don’t want to have to shoot someone, but I assure you that I’d I bring my firearm out, someone is about to be shot. If police acted THIS way, we’d all be much safer. A gun is not something to use in negotiations. It is not a “calming tool” used to make a criminal think about what they’re doing. It is a stopping tool used to make the criminal stop what he is currently doing, nothing more or less. If the criminal has to die in order to stop, so be it.
Sam, that is a total misconception.
A firearm should not be hard fast ruled to “if the weapon comes out of the holster it must be fired and emptied”.
If you draw your weapon with INTENT to use it, and the threat reduces to zero and you DO use it, that will be tried as murder.
As I stated to the OP, the time it takes the threat to realize they are outmatched is not a set law, sometimes it takes people a bit to grasp the whole situation.
For example, in this situation, if you the CCW did not see the actual attack, you could mistake a defender as the offender and shoot an innocent person.
Or, back story, she could have been an abusive psycho and he couldn’t take it anymore and you just killed somebody who was tormented by an evil person.
The thing is, you do not know everything at the time, if the situation can be reduced to no threat without taking another life, it should.
That said, if you’re pointing a firearm at someone and they keep coming at you and are within the kill range, you need to make the decision fast, but with enough distance between you, firing first should not be the go to plan.
None of this back and forth crap is worth anything. None of this stuff goes through anybody’s mind when they have a gun out and are dealing with stuff like this. It doesn’t matter if they are a cop, an armed citizen, or whatever. Dude injected himself in to a deadly force altercation and had to make hard decisions on the fly. It worked out and his actions were legally reasonable.
What I was saying Bob is that the man obviously had no intent to use the firearm he brought into action. That mindset is dangerous. I’ve brought my firearm into action one time. The man backed down and I didn’t have to shoot him. I DID talk to him through out the entire incident and told him that if he continued his actions, there was a physical barrier between us which he was going around, that he was going to be killed. My exact words to him were “Mister, please don’t make me kill you today.” While I didn’t fire my gun that day because he stopped and left the area, I had every intention of it if he came around the barrier that separated us. That is what I mean when I say if I bring my gun out, someone is likely to be shot. I bring it out with the intent of using it, not with the idea of threatening someone away with it. During that entire incident, my gun stayed by my side. I didn’t wave it, and I didn’t brandish it. My gun is not a tool to threaten anyone with. It is something to protect myself, my family, and my property.
Sam has no idea what the “intent” of the CCW holder was unless he can persuade us he has mutant Dr. Xavier mind-reading powers.
What do you mean, “we’d all be safer”? You mean all criminals like yourself would be safer. You blew your cover dipshit.
could you just go step into traffic. NO ONE here believes you are genuine. ON THE CONTRARY we all know you are an anti-gunner trying, and failing miserably every time, to play devils advocate with our point of view. you think you are embodying our view points with our inane drivel but just more failures. which im sure you are used to by now.
Mr. Operator operating operationally, not everyone who carries for protection wants to kill somebody, many hope that the presence of the greater power is enough to end the conflict.
After all, isn’t that the end result, the weapon is there to mitigate the threat, if the said threat stops being a threat, a shooting is not justified. The law does not state that the time for the threat to end has to be instantaneous, hence police standoffs.
Maybe you need to take a deep look at your own self made rules, perhaps not every event requires immediate termination to be resolved. Especially in a crowded public place with unsure back stops.
Also, you should of watched the video.
ANONNYMOUS make a perfect case for not getting involved. You hear this in various contexts but, basically, it all boils down to minding your own business when trouble presents itself.
Walking backward is never a good idea. Had he stumbled and fell… Well, you can guess the rest.
That’s what keeps me scratching my head. Why walk backwards when you’ve got the gun? If knife guy is closing the distance stay put and shoot, that’s what the gun is for. Walking backwards unnecessarily like that isn’t just silly, it’s dangerous.
Seattle Center has people everywhere. Remember the rule: be aware of your target and what lies beyond. The camera angle doesn’t show us the good guy’s perspective.
Restraining orders are worthless if you are not armed. That poor kid.
Fortunately, Washington voters passed a GVRO initiative recently, so something like this could never happen here.
I hear those TROs really have teeth and are covered in armor.
Those restraining orders should say Smith & Wesson on one side and .38 Special (minimum) on the other side.
That would be much more useful.
A restraining order should automatically be considered a concealed carry permit.
Many around here won’t get involved. Fortunately some do.
If he advances on you, shoot to kill.
Tough situation.
While I agree with you, it appears to be a heavily populated area. Know what is behind your target. Maybe he couldn’t get a shot off without worrying about a bystander and over penetration.
Also, if you are comfortable with the distance between you and the threat, giving yourself a chance to talk them down is not the worst thing, I don’t believe most of these commenters comprehend the aftermath of killing someone both the legal aspects and personal.
While I applaud the ccw holder for getting involved, I know in my ccw class the instructors made a point of demonstrating just how dangerous someone with a knife is and that they don’t have to be very close to you to end up making you another victim and then upgrading their weapon by taking your gun. Mr Stabby was what appeared to be about 20 feet from the ccw holder, that is well within the killzone for Mr Stabby. All he had to do was rush the already retreating ccw guy, most people can easily close that gap and even if the ccw holder manages to stay on his feet and get off a shot or two unless one of them is an instant kill shot, Mr Stabby is going to put that knife to use again. So Mr CCW better be well versed in hand to hand combat or he’s going to be getting some new puncture wounds and more than likely disarmed. Real life isn’t like the movies, where any hit immediately drops them to the floor. Even hitting them with what ends up being fatal shots, doesn’t mean they won’t still get some stabs in, adrenaline will keep a dead man moving for a long time. Luckily it turned out alright for him, and luckily he had the guts to get involved when others wouldn’t. Well done Mr Brown, well done.
That had to have felt like an eternity to Mr. Brown.
Well done sir, well done.
No kidding. It probably isn’t a bad idea to practice a breathing routine when brushing up shooting skills. I could actually see some people passing out during this kind of altercation.
Show this to an anti gunner who claims that the cops can take care of such incidents. No city has enough cops to catch everyone in the moment. Protect yourself, don’t rely on someone else.
If it were up to the antigunners, they WOULD watch every citizen at every moment.
To each their own, but IMO not wise.
Tueller Drill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cwhE7sfQtg
He had the gun on him and trigger ready. 21 foot rule didn t apply unless you don’t have the nerve to take the shot
True, only he knows what he would or would not do.
Would not have been a good day if knife guy had taken a hostage. weaker female bystander..
He didn’t have to close with the gun guy necessarily.
If knife boy went for a hostage, ventilation would be in order.
It does apply. What are the guarantees you’ll put one in the brain or heart?
You can miss, hit non vital organs, the gun can malfunction, you can trip when you are backing up….
There is no rule either of “I am ready, if he charges I just pull the trigger and game over”, nope sorry.
Shoulda woulda coulda need not apply. The guy made the right call. No one else did get hurt, and he did ensure the perp didn’t get away. He also now doesn’t have to live with having shot someone, regardless of whether the guy may or may not have had every justification to shoot, that is something to consider.
, That good officer needs more practice he did all but drop the gun
Now the good people of Washington state can feed and house the dirtbag for 40 years. He’ll get free medical, college, and can even learn a trade he’ll never use in society.
Should have dropped him.
Hard. Core. Not much more I can say about that.
The sheer number of oblivious bystanders that just casually pass within a few feet of either of the individuals just blows my mind… the older couple, the guy that just chills there on the bench… I don’t expect them to jump in, but to not get the hell away?!
” I don’t expect them to jump in, but to not get the hell away?!”
Sudden movement might have attracted the attention of ‘knife-boy’. I don’t blame them for observing and staying put…
Society’s shift to responsible citizens to self absorbed entertainophiles is actually not surprising at all if you just track when and how technology has changed how people perceive their lives and surroundings.
Look at the introduction of technology; the internet, cellphones, social media, and the resulting organic social engineering in the last 20 years. The perception of reality has largely transitioned from a “village” mentality to an individualistic observer mindset with the hope of internet fame around every corner if you have your camera ready to record.
Too few people have foresight or the long view of life’s consequences for your actions in the here and now. Instead life is now viewed as a popularity contest in the form of arbitrary or planned-in-advance pictures and vlogs with the goal to capture the most outrageous spectacle or “raw moment” that you happen across on video (as opposed to genuinely assessing what you are seeing and reacting responsibly or appropriately).
People would sooner record a shooting or stabbing in 1080 HD 4k in hopes of uploading it at their earliest convenience rather than step in to help or stop the event.
Individually, people have been socially trained to be either a content creator / main character /vlogger (ie. videos, selfies) or just a passive audience member (ie. bystander, observer, audience member).
“Life isn’t reality TV. You only get one season” should be a PSA.
True, though I think just as big of a part is that any degree of self sufficiency with regard to personal protection or protection of others is now treated with open hostility by the courts and the cops. I certainly wouldn’t intervene on someone else’s behalf; my first obligation is to my loved ones and myself. I’m certainly not gonna jeapordoze that by risking massive legal fees and/or jail time to help a stranger who couldn’t be bothered to ensure they could handle themselves
Agreed. 20-50 years ago I would’ve been more inclined to help a stranger in this country because I could be more confident we shared a similar moral code, ethics, belief system, and general view of America.
Nowadays, not so much. I’ll happily protect those I respect and know. The rest will just have to be subject and reliant on their own capability and capacity.
had a tornado touch down a mile away from my wife’s place of work last week. The store made the announcement that it was sighted and for everyone to stay in the center of the building, away from the windows. So… of course… the building emptied out as all the customers rushed to the parking lot with their cell phone cameras to catch the action.
Ugh, this town’s gone to hell. Good for the good guy for keeping his cool in a horrible situation.
John Correia’s “Bystander effect” (from Active Self Protection)
And I imagine Seattle’s gun confiscation squad will be show up to this hero’s home to seize his guns in the next day or two. Blue State totalitarians can’t have the people knowing that they can actually defend themselves, after all.
I was wondering if someone would use this as a red flag moment to remove that guys firearms since he had the terrifying mentality to help a grim situation.
Sure, he might win the right to have them back, but at his cost and time.
I keep saying it, we have a huge mental health problem in this country. Why are there so many nutjobs? What a sad story, what a pos. The good guy with the gun did a great job. However you really want to be careful, the guy is close enough that he could have hurt him really bad even if Brown was ready to pull the trigger, no guarantee he would have hit where it would have immediately stopped the threat. Mr Brown could have shot the turd, and even in libtard Seattle it would have been hard to prove him wrong when the pos had already stabbed someone, he is obviously a real and actual threat.
Those guys standing in the way taking video with their phones… ?!
21st century occident. it is “normal”.
I would have pulled the trigger. There are too many video evidence of good guy with a gun being badly hurt when bad guy with the knife decided to charge, and kept charging while taking some lead. The guy was way too close. At some point, screw backing up and trying to de-escalate, if you trip on something while you are backing up it might also be the end for you. Anyway great job Mr Brown. This devil does not deserve to enjoy a normal life, he murdered a woman in front of her child it is horrible.
It’s a good thing he was on the grass when they tased him or he might have fallen and hit his head! That would just break my heart. Also, he didn’t fall on his knife either. That would be another tragedy.
Actually, I’m glad he turned out the way it did. It’s a win for gun owners. Had the gun owner shot the guy, the antis would be jumping all over it on how he was just looking for something like this, he’s a wannabe hero etc.
I would rather he popped the guy in the forehead, but that’s just me.
It’s a much better outcome the way it turned out. He helps all of us in these difficult times.
Liberal divorced women are on their own. Same for women who choose poorly a boy friend. There will be no knight with a shiny weapon coming to save them. Only a uniformed police officer with a chalk stick to draw an outline of them on the street hard top. Liberated women don’t need a man.
Our nation has changed for the worse. I’m glad I live in a free state.
Free for as long as you can keep it that way.
Washington was actually quite free until very recently. It’s only been the last several years that the restrictions have started to come in. Unfortunately, once the antis hit on the strategy of using initiatives, that was pretty much it for gun rights in the state. All the votes you need to pass a ballot measure are in King, Pierce, and Snohomish Counties and you can get them to vote in a block for any anti-gun crap.
Yeah, I laugh every time I see this “I’m in a free state, you’re not” mentality. If it keeps happening in more and more states, why do these guys think it won’t happen in theirs?
Because you were invaded by socialist progressives. And you supported many of the same destructive polices. You may support legalization of marijuana intoxication. But your pot head allies HAVE NEVER supported gun civil rights.
Same in Colorado. Are those new white pot head $$$ billionaires or $$$ millionaires spending their money to fight these anti gun initiatives? No they are not.
Because marijuana smokers don’t believe in Liberty. The vast majority of pot heads are socialist progressive in their political orientation. The pot head is a single issue voter.
Sadly they used cancer patients as a fig leaf.
That is what happened in California. I grew up there. I know. I saw it happen in the 1970s and 1980s.
Libertarians Liberals and the Left, including the atheists, all got what they wanted. I like Reason TV. But you will not see this story their channel. If they were honest they would say this is what we expected. If they are surprised, then they are liars.
They are all enablers. They are against drug testing for welfare, gov college loans or any government aid.
You got legal drugs. You lost your gun civil rights. Gun civil rights were and still are not supported by the drug legalization crowd. And they never will be.
Seattle: The Utopian Lie | NOIR S7E8 24 minutes long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fWGKrxV3Pc
Once they move in your state to escape the messes they created it’s only a matter of time. Look at Colorado.
But we don’t want to move into their fiefdoms and try to change the situation. It’s a one way move.
Pray for me, I am trapped, living in the incredibly oppressive Soviet Socialist State of Cuomostan surrounded by ‘Freaks and Hairys, Dyke’s and Faeries’* – ruled over by a psychopath ‘progressive’ Democrat who has made life truly miserable for CCW’ holders… And now, as a ‘Senior Citizen’, …I do believe I have reached the pinnacle; -the utmost point where a man cannot HATE other men any more than what I have for all these lying and deceitful “Democrat Progressives” and their evil ‘socialist’ SJW’s and AntiFa accomplices.
” Oh Lord, please smite them all with a bolt from the blue.. -all at once lord, -so the spectacle will be long lasting and most memorable. Amen ”
( * from the song “I want to rule the world”, by ’10 years after’ )
if only he had been in a better place at a better time maybe the child wouldn’t have had to watch his mother get stabbed to death. thats the kinda shit that turns you into Dexter.
glad he and others were there to help though.
Un possible.
Only guns kill.
Guns always kill once they get loose.
Gun owners are violent whack-jobs just looking for excuses to pop off.
Restraining orders protect people.
Police can’t tell armed good guys from armed bad guys.
The B G will just take yr gun n kill u more with it.
Also, cannot be Seattle, because they have banned all the things, n that always works.
#voteyourinterest
I love the people just walking by a guy covered in blood, holding a knife and a guy holding him off with a firearm likes it’s nothing….Yep, just a normal day…
Mall cop just walked around with his head up his ass.
Way 2 go, Scott! I applaud your courage and common sense. I hope 2 never have 2 pull the trigger, but carry in case I do.
Again, the police arrive after the fact 2 clean up.
Wow! 21 feet…that is a distance a knife wielding attacker can travel and kill you before a firearm can stop him. The distance is actually more like 30 feet, but the point is the same. You do not know what is going through the head of a nutcase, and you should not assume he is afraid to die. If you hesitate even 1/2 second, you are done. I took several shoot-don’t shoot courses with a “man with a knife” scenario, and believe me, it was difficult. Even though I knew what was going to happen in the scenario, even after I practiced the scenario multiple times, I wasn’t always successful. If I had to run odds on whether the CCW holder would have survived if the attacker charged him, I would say he would have had a 1 in 5 chance of surviving.
When I was a Platoon Sergeant my platoon would periodically get guard duty at the ammo storage area bunkers.If someone was to attempt to break in,we were authorized to use “deadly force” with our M-16’s.Knowing what a hassle(remember this was the Army and how much paperwork is involved to even get a roll of toilet paper)I told all my troops if you shoot,there damned well better be a hole in the guys leg that bleeds a lot before you say you had to kill him because once he’s dead,shooting him in the leg won’t bleed as the heart stops pumping blood.
Lots of comments here from ‘Armchair Quarterbacks’, and wanna -be lawyers, as well as a FEW thoughtful posts. The OP DID DE-ESCALATE the situation. That’s a fact. You don’t like the outcome? OK, that’s your right. ME, being a CCW, have no clue what I WOULD have done. Won’t EVER know until I’m in the hot seat. Hope I make the right choice…but here’s the thing: We carry for protection, right? Isn’t that different than carrying for an excuse to kill? Don’t most legal uses of deadly force, even by police, require a genuine fear of loss of life or grievous bodily harm? Having a weapon, and having a ‘situation’ IS NOT a FREE PASS to get your ‘John Wayne/Dirty Harry’ groove going. Is saving the state (taxpayer) money a justification for a ‘critical shot’? ME, again, I like simple, Shooting is simple, but not always RIGHT. I like RIGHT too…
a whole lot of know it all’s, we weren’t there He was! I carry but i’m not in a big hurry to kill anyone.
He did what he thought was right for his situation, nobody can honestly say they’d do it differently until they are in this position.
Once you pull that trigger the shit show really begins, more than likely his family will sue you. not to mention lawyers fees and all the other fun stuff.
He stopped the guy from hurting anyone else until the cops got there and saved himself a lot of headache!
He had good intentions,but if you don’t have the stones to shoot him then your just putting yourself in harm’s way and becoming a possible sencond Victim.Not to sound heartless but you would be wize to hand in you permit to carry
.And just keep your gun at home .You don’t get many 2nd chances and if he was really suicidal ,and wanted you to kill him …Could you have?? How would you handle the fact you just killed a man ?? Not every one has that ability to do that .
okay.. richard would have preferred that the CCW holder had kept his gun at home because richard is a mind reader who “knows” what stones the guy does or doesn’t have.
Can someone just kill this worthless motherfucker?
its so easy to sit at home and second guess what he should have done. He did what he thought was right. We are all keyboard warriors. We weren’t there, so just be thankful no one else was a victim. God bless the victim.
Yeah, he says he doesn’t want to ever pull a gun on a person and that he only carries it for protection. Then he goes all Billy Bad Ass pulling it out in public trying to play cop. That is NOT “for your protection”. You were never under any threat until you inserted your dumb ass in the middle of it. Idiot.
While a knife wielding attacker can close a 21 foot gap faster than you can draw and fire, if you’ve already drawn and have the attacker in your sights before they begin to charge, you have more time to de-escalate the situation. I’d likely have done the same thing as the concealed weapon holder.
ALWAYS respect the 21 foot rule. Crazed, drunk, delirious, already wounded…. this guy was presenting a threat.
BTW: Your CCW licence is not a license to be a negotiator. Defense only. It is not a replacement for LEO. Hard call when to walk away.
There is way too much talking and thinking going on with this conversation.
The rule of the samurai applies with a ccw.
If the blade comes out, someone gets cut.
As the gun person stopping a armed suspect.
Tell the suspect to STOP!!!!
Disarm!!!!
On your Face.
No compliance?
Light them up.
Threat neutralized one way or other.
Mr CCW is a pussy.
Take away his license.
He is more of a danger then a help.
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