Imagine a police officer pulls you over on a traffic stop, and you have your carry license in your wallet. It happens maybe a million times a year all across America. But this time, while looking for your insurance card in your wallet, the police officer catches a glimpse of your carry permit…and then points his gun at your face.
A minute later, your face is in the dirt. Why? Because you “might have a gun.”
That’s the scenario that has cost the Minneapolis Park Board a $100,000 settlement after a cop said he saw Jenice Hodge’s carry permit in her wallet as she looked for her insurance card.
According to a report from Revolt.tv, Officer Calvin Pham pulled Hodge over for driving without a seatbelt and while using her phone. He said things went sideways when . . .
I observed a card in her wallet that appeared to be an MN PERMIT TO CARRY, which made me believe that JENICE may have a gun.
He then pulled his gun on her and then put her on the ground while arresting her on a litany of charges. Later, all but one were dropped by the State’s Attorney.
As it turns out, Officer Pham’s spidey senses were off. While Hodge did, in fact, have a valid carry permit in her wallet, she didn’t have her gun with her that day. Not that that should have made any difference. She didn’t ask “how high” when he told her to jump out of the car, but his treatment of the unarmed woman clearly failed any acceptable reasonableness standard.
To that end, the officer’s grossly excessive reaction to seeing a carry permit ended up in court and the park board president just signed off on a $100,000 settlement to make the case go away.
As for Pham, he resigned in November, 2021. His “law enforcement license” is currently inactive according to the Minnesota Peace Officers Standards and Training Board.
Ms Hodge is now talking about the ordeal. From the Revolt story . . .
“I didn’t even have my driver’s license out of the sleeve and I had a gun pointed at my head,” she told KSTP.
Less than 60 seconds after pulling her over, Pham had his gun drawn at the woman and commanded her to step out of the vehicle.
“I was confused and scared, and I didn’t know what was going on,” she said.
Hodge raised her arms through her car’s sunroof, but refused to leave her vehicle.
“Step out of the car, now. I will rip you out if you do not step out of the car now,” Pham could be heard telling her…
According to Pham’s police incident report, he noted a weapons permit in Hodge’s wallet, which prompted his decision to pull his gun on her.
“I observed a card in her wallet that appeared to be an MN PERMIT TO CARRY, which made me believe that JENICE may have a gun,” it read.
Hodge confirmed that she does have a permit to legally carry a firearm, but Pham never reported seeing a gun…
The woman was arrested and charged with obstructing the legal process and marijuana possession, though the charges were dropped after she pleaded guilty to driving with a suspended license.
Frankly, the Minneapolis Park Board probably got off very easy. Especially in a city that endured the aftermath of the George Floyd fiasco and more recently, the killing of Amir Locke during a no-knock warrant fishing expedition by Minneapolis PD. A jury might well have ordered well over a million dollar judgement given the facts of Hodge’s arrest.
I’m not sure a lot of us would have accepted $100,000 to get dragged out of a car at gunpoint and put face-first on the pavement simply because a nervous cop caught a glimpse of our carry permit. Many of us might have gone with the British SAS’s motto: “Who dares wins.”
As for Ms. Hodge, it’s probably a good thing she didn’t have her gun with her at the time. There’s no telling how a jumpy Officer might have reacted to the sight of a firearm.
She handled a very stressful incident pretty well. Remember: Always let an officer have the last word in a dispute out in public. The side of the road is a terrible place to debate the rule of law. Do what the officer says, no matter how unreasonable it seems.
In the back of your mind, you know that if they are truly acting outside the law in an unreasonable manner, and you survive the encounter, you will likely have the last word in a court of law, possibly as part of a 1983 civil rights lawsuit.
All gun owners should have this treatment. Especially white people, because they are the cisgender heteronormative white male patriarchy system of oppression. They have created a system of oppression for LGBTQAAIP%23ZPAT, and all non-whites in existence, and women.
Which brings me to…
I have a list of stuff I want to vote on, to force you to do for me. If I can get enough votes, I can force you to do stuff on my list! Yay! #Democracy!
So I don’t like that you guys carry guns. I don’t like that you own guns. I don’t like that you possess guns. If you didn’t have any of these guns, this woman of color in the above video wouldn’t have needed a carry permit. So all I need is more votes. More votes, and then I can do whatever I want. Nothing is off the table, on what can and should be voted on. In fact, we should probably have public voting for courts and trials too #YayDemocracy! If we had voting on who should be executed or who goes to prison, Kyle Rittenhouse probably would have went to prison – if we all could have voted on that.
#Democracy!
Actually the woman of color in this story needs a gun because of the threat of the men of color who commit the vast majority of violent crimes. Has nothing to do with wipipo.
Anyone who could be victimized by another needs to have access to a firearm. It doesn’t matter what sex they are or want to be, what age they are or want to be or what race they are or claim to be. Everyone who can not overpower some that could attack you needs to have an equalizer.
Don’t respond to this guy. Your are wasting valuable TTAG space.
Chris T in KY,
This is the dacian impersonator (complete with identical photo avatar) who is majorly trolling the real dacian. Or it is the real dacian’s alter-ego (split personality) who is making fun of himself.
Who or what is the real dacian? Two people cannot register the same name, same avatar, and post the same kind of trash on the same site.
The real dacian has a secret underground lair beneath the local zoo where he hides his victims.
You mean he has a twin?!? How do you tell which one’s which?
Paul,
“Two people cannot register the same name, same avatar…”
Sure you can.
Someone’s handle (name) and avatar are not linked together on this site. Rather, some other site links an e-mail address with an avatar. (And nothing stops two different e-mail addresses from having the same avatar at that other site.)
When you post on this site, you can use any handle (name) that you want (including exact matches with handles that other people use) with any e-mail address that you want.
If your e-mail address that you use on this site just happens to have the same avatar as dacian (on that other site which links avatars to e-mail addresses), then your comment appears on this site with an identical avatar to dacian’s avatar. At that point, if you type in the name “dacian” in the “Name:*” comment field, your post will appear to be exactly the same as dacian’s posts.
Governor,
The dacian impostor trolls the real dacian with remarks that are over-the-top. A tell-tale indicator is when the imposter strings together several–too many–Progressive labels or talking points. Two examples above are:
“cisgender heteronormative white male patriarchy”
and
“LGBTQAAIP%23ZPAT“.
That is how you can tell the difference.
Didn’t p g 2 and another similar crazy have a similar pattern of posting and hijacked account/apparent mental break over the last few years?
SAFEupstateFML,
I believe the answer to your question is, “yes.”
With respect specifically to p g 2, I thought I read somewhere about 2 years ago that TTaG got tired of his vaccination (non-COVID related) comments and finally banned him.
The real dacian has a secret underground lair located beneath the Milwaukee Sewer Treatment Plant, where a major leak has long been suspected to exist.
Uncommon what are the chances it’s the same basement or “influencer” agency that just has to rename every so often due to mental or message burnout? Either way good job TTAG on potentially getting obsessive recycle trolls and/or semi pro troll farms involved. Pissing off the right people somewhere.
You fascist son of a b17ch, you have the NERVE to type #Democracy into your post?
The first thing I wanted to know was the so called cop fired, etc? And good to find out he’s gone. Bottom line…She let them all off waaaaay too cheap.
Debbie W., according to the article, “As for Pham, he resigned in November, 2021.”
Minneapolis may be a city to avoid when the recent police/crime/victum history of the place is considered.
Wonder how the officer managed to carry a gun considering his fright of a piece of paper!
Democracy sucks. Thankfully the USA is not, never has been, and thanks to the Founders, never will be a “democracy”. Long Live the Republic!
He is the fake Dacian. You can tell by his childish comments. A 4th grader could do better.
Yes, we are sure you will.
I’m sorry if I keep saying I’m a fake dacian. I just took my medcine, and saw that when I wasn’t on my medicine, I couldn’t remember making the comments that I made above, and then went around commenting on all my comments that I was a fake dacian. Well, I am back on my medicine, now, thankfully, and all the above dacians are in fact, the real dacian.
ROTFL!!!!
Pure gold, man. Pure gold!
I could detect no difference, I thought Dacian was just having a rare moment of honesty before his medicine kicked in.
If anyone ever thought you were anything less than a douchebag troll this post proves it.
That’s either a lifetime’s amount of damage from the All Lead Paint Chips Diet And Snacking Plan, Master’s Level Trolling; or according to my instincts Why Not BOTH?
I can never tell whether you’re serious or taking the piss.
Yes that is a compliment.
OK, I had my doubts for a while, but now I KNOW that you are not actually a liberal troll but in fact a conservative satirist pretending to be a liberal troll. Good work. Got quite a chuckle out of this one. 😂
Governor,
“… I KNOW that you are not actually a liberal troll but in fact a conservative satirist pretending to be a liberal troll.”
Correct. I only wish that the real dacian realized how much we are laughing at (not WITH) him.
Side note: we will be in very scary times when artificial intelligence can accurately distinguish the real dacian from the conservative satirist impostor.
“OK, I had my doubts …FOR A WHILE…”
What? Are you for real William? Is this a boomer thing? No wonder phone and mail scams make billions from people ever year.
When the Dacian poster says “I can force you to do stuff on my list! Yay! #Democracy!” He is telling people that Democracy is fundamentally flawed.
Democracy IS tyranny of the majority.
“Our Democracy…” is one of the Lefts/Democrats number one lies.
In a democracy 50% plus one vote can/will, without constraints or any regards to minority rights (minority of thought, not the Democrats subversive lie of minority of skin color) force the other 50% minus one vote to bend to their will. Whatever (as mentioned by dacian above) their will would entail.
A democracy therefore, is a corrosive form of government of the masses that is communistic in approach that leads to demagogism, agitation, disconnect, anarchy, and eventually to…mobocracy (ruled by the mob).
“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to have for lunch.” This “quote” most often attributed to Benjamin Franklin, is why America is not a democracy. America is a constitutional republic, re Bill Of Rights, that protects the minority from being governed by passion, prejudice, or impulse. Why do you think they never want to waste a good crisis?
As for the commenter, he did a commendable job, however he did not even attempt to copy the style and prose of the poster commonly referred as “little d”. That actually makes sense because truly copying “little d” would require you to reorient your thinking into a convoluted angry mess and then into a disturbing psychosis of thought.
“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to have for lunch.”
“Liberty is a well armed ‘lamb’ contesting the vote.” – Benjamin Franklin
“Your comment is awaiting moderation”
Mr. Dan Zimmerman…. really?
it’s Farrago messing with us, boosting comment numbers. I’m sure of it! 😉
Amen, brother. I say we vote to make the constitution unconstitutional.
You can vote all you like to take my guns away, you can vote as many times as you want, how often as you want but you’re never going to get Compliance from me.
I personally exercise my “Privilege” on a daily basis, if you don’t use it you lose it. 🤠
Dacian, have you ever conducted a traffic stop that involved a CCW? Have you ever conducted traffic stop? No? Then shut the fuck up. You have no idea what’s it like at 1400 hrs and back-up is 30 minutes away. Even if they were running 10-18. If I was lucky a state trooper was close.
So you want to be a bully and you want us to enable you to be one.
Right, that works……..
won’t read your drivel any more. Time is too precious to waste this way
What an idiot. I feel sorry for you and that truncated mental capacity you carry on your shoulders.
America today reminds me of an old joke from Gilligan’s Island. A criminal had washed up on the island, and he was talking to Ginger about his childhood
Criminal “When we played cops and robbers, they always made me be the cop. Never the good guy.”
Ginger “The cop is the good guy.”
Criminal “Not in my neighborhood.”
I guess he was from Minneapolis.
Probably a cop supplied by Everytown who thinks no one should have a gun, other than police.
If you’ve ever wondered if there are cops who would enforce some kind of gun confiscation order, he’s probably one of them.
was.
“was.”
And good that he was, as in, not any more…
Yup. Past perfect tense is sometimes the ONLY correct tense.
H’ll just mo e to another city or another State, get his license back and be someone else’s problem.
There should be a list for ex-LEOs like this. You know, like the gun registry?
I’m still mildly traumatized by your: “… mostly heavy dark ones…” observation in your earlier quest for endroopenbrestenassen. Can’t seem to shake it.
Simply carrying a gun should not be a crime. Or suspicion of a crime. If the only reason a cop has for interacting with you is that you are carrying a gun the cop is wrong.
Unless she’s hot and says can I see your big gun.
Tired of the bs, Don’t you mean pistol or 6″ shooter!
You’re encountering different cops from the ones I run into.
When “what a dick!” is completely misconstrued.
True enough. For most folks. She was not amongst that subset of poeple, thus broke no law. Ackshullym having the MOther May I Card in possession shoudl automatically give her a quick bye….. this class of citizen is several multiples more law abiding than members of the law enforcement agencies tsked with enforcing the laws.. the very ones they break. This dirty ex-copper is a good example of that class and their perfidy in upholding the law as written.
It mentons the Mpls Park police.. maybe this guy si part of a low grade ersatz rent-a-cop outfit that is NOT throughly trained in the law. Servies himright. Or maybe he’s just got a thing for young lightly dressed and attractive females.
I believe there was a state case that held that mere possession of a firearm is not probable cause to arrest.
The issue seems to be that, whether it is training or something else, cops appear to be terrified of anyone who possesses a gun, CCW or not. We have all heard stories of people with CCWs having their guns being taken, unloaded, maybe even disassembled, and left on the trunk lid of the vehicle. Sometimes the ammo is scattered along the side of the road.
There is no excuse for that policeman’s conduct which was felony aggravated assault and battery as well as deprivation of rights under color of law.
I am very relieved to hear that Officer Unfriendly did not cause serious physical injuries.
You can blame the Supreme Court, which has allowed “armed and dangerous” in Terry v Ohio to be bastardized into “armed and therefore dangerous” (United States v Robinson, 2017, decided by 4DCA, SCOTUS denied cert).
Essentially, the tens of millions of law-abiding firearm carriers can be denied constitutional protections by (firearm-carrying, but presumably not dangerous) law enforcement officers, on the basis that the mere, lawful carry of a firearm renders such law-abiding people inherently “dangerous”. Right against search and seizure? Denied. Rights of due process? Denied.
This is a perfect example of why allowing the courts to justify allowable violations of constitutionally protected rights is a dangerous, slippery slope.
And she should have gotten way more than $100,000.
Chip Bennett,
Thank you for the information about the current state of jurisprudence.
The sad reality of traffic stops is that cops can justify drawing and pointing their gun at you if you move in any fashion whatsoever (the infamous “furtive movement”), regardless of what the courts say.
The only way that I can see to deny excuses for traffic cops to draw down on you is if you keep your driver’s license, registration, and proof of insurance more-or-less in hand and sit motionless–with both hands on your steering wheel–well before stopping and the traffic cop walking up to your car. Then, once the traffic cop is at your side window, you continue to be motionless–only moving when the traffic cop tells you.
I’ve basically been doing it as you described ever since before I got a drivers license in 1974. We were taught how to interact with Law Enforcement in Drivers Ed class. Heel of my hands on the top of the steering wheel with fingers extended up. Don’t do anything until the officer is at the window. Then follow their instructions. Being polite at all times. When asked for my documents. I first let them know I have a firearms permit and explain the location of the firearm(s) (if applicable). Then ask how they want me to proceed. From that point it’s politely following direction. Some things never change. Being polite and cooperative will go a long way to making the interaction survivable.
“Being polite and cooperative will go a long way to making the interaction survivable”
not to mention they’re more likely to let you go with a warning rather than a ticket.
Advice my cop friend gave me was, pull up into an obstacle if possible ( like a street lamp), interior light on, engine off, keys on dash, window down, hands on wheel, advise where your hands are going to get papers. I do only some of that.
you mean, play slave?
no, play civilian contact.
it’s a society thing.
helpful hint. if you drive the speed limit and stay away from drugs, your chances of interacting with an leo drop to almost zero. so there’s your game plan.
The 100K should have been from the officer’s pocket.
True, but at least he’s no longer employed with LE. The removal of his pension benefits will end up costing him more than $100K in the long run.
The way I read the story, the police officer in question resigned.
I’m sure another police department has quietly hired him and put him back on the streets.
Miner:
“His ‘law enforcement license’ is currently inactive according to the Minnesota Peace Officers Standards and Training Board.”
100,000 with front page advertisement on the front page of the local paper. This would be an essay describing the polices requirement to enforce the right to arms and that they were in the wrong in violating the lady’s Civil rights.
Also describing measures implemented to make sure they are on the side of the Constitution in the future.
And, like a fart in the wind, even that will be meaningless. If it’s the taxpayers money being used in these ‘settlements’ then it needs to bring outrage from the taxpayer at the amounts involved. This cop should have been immediately dismissed from any law enforcement position and his department, for their obvious and dangerous lack of training and protocol, should properly have been sued for and the plaintiff awarded an amount in the multiple tens of millions, with maybe 80%+ of those funds being distributed amongst pro 2A advocacy groups and training facilities or whatever. Only then will the sheeple even begin to take notice.
She deserves every penny, Who teaches these police officers now days? Seeing that a person has a CCW permit should be a key indicator that the person is not a convicted felon and has accepted responsibility for her own safety. You know, like a responsible citizen. This traffic stop should have resulted in a verbal warning and “Have a nice day”.
Exactly 💯%
“Who teaches these police officers now days?”
the ones who survive.
Allow me to complete your last sentence if I may: “the ones who survive the liberal screening, hiring and re-education requirements”.
… that too.
This is why it is so important for the law-abiding civilian population in this country to not only concealed carry but open carry arms. There is a belief in this country that the law-abiding do not need a gun. That belief is being promoted by the police and by the civilian disarmament industrial complex.
You have a Birthright in America to possess and bear arms. The more guns in the hands of the law abiding, the more polite the police and everyone else will be to each other.
And it does not matter what the skin color of the police officer is. I am very comfortable saying we need the police. And we need good police officers. I am also comfortable saying that if the Democrats want to defund the police. I’m okay with that too. It would greatly reduce the size of government. Because I’m very comfortable killing people who take what is mine. And harm the ones I love.
We had a very recent example of what it’s like in this country to not have the police. And the results were several American Cities Burn to the ground and dozens of people murdered. All done mostly by wealthy white people waving rainbow Flags.
btw
Two years before Philando Castile was killed I was stopped by police officer with skin color lighter than mine. In TN. I had forgotten to turn my headlights on. With my hands on the steering wheel I calmly told the officer that I had a gun. I asked him if he wanted to see my gun permit? With a raised voice he said, “you have a gun?”
With a frightened voice he said “no, no, no”. “I don’t need to see your permit.” I gave him my driver’s license, registration, and insurance information. A few minutes later he handed my paperwork back to me. He told me to be more careful about making sure I turn my headlights on. Told me to have a nice day and drove away.
I don’t care who you are or what your skin color is. Arguing with a police officer will get you nowhere. It will most likely get you arrested.
This is why my Mn. Carry permit is hidden well away from anything visible in my billfold, nor do I EVER volunteer anything except what can be answered as a simple yes or no… Do you know how fast you were driving? Yes, end of conversation. I know who my friends are, and the guy outside of my window ISN’T one of them. And yes, Philando would still be with us had he heeded that advice.
How about if you don’t drive while high?!? Duh…
Pb_fan59,
Unfortunately, some states require disclosure of your armed and licensed (to carry firearms) status to traffic cops on traffic stops.
Our local deputies have pulled over my spouse twice. My spouse and I were in the car both times (along with at least one of our children), we were both armed, and we both had concealed carry licenses. Both times we immediately notified the deputy that we both had concealed carry licenses and both of us were armed. We also kept our hands plainly visible on the steering wheel and dashboard area and did not reach for anything. One stop was at night and we turned on our interior lights before stopping.
When we told the deputies that we were licensed and armed, they politely thanked us and told us not to reach for our firearms. Both deputies seemed pretty relaxed at that point.
On one of the stops we discovered that our registration in-hand was expired. We informed the deputy that our current registration was in the glove box. I also informed the deputy that I had a flashlight on the floor and that I could acquire it and turn it on for extra light before opening the glove box. I then asked the deputy what he wanted me to do. At that point it was immediately obvious to the deputy that I was acutely aware of and sensitive to “officer safety” considerations. He relaxed even more and said that I could forego the flashlight and just open the glove box, which I did. Current registration in-hand, he went back to his car to check on our documents and status.
He promptly returned to our car, returned our documents, essentially told us to “behave”, and sent us on our way with a warning and no ticket.
It seems to me that disclosing your carry license and armed status almost always reduces officer anxiety in “shall-issue” (concealed carry license) jurisdictions–assuming that you also behave respectfully and avoid moving/reaching around your car. Maybe I am wrong on that point?
“Maybe I am wrong on that point?”
‘pends on the county/jurisdiction. a permit may be issued by a county and be theoretically valid throughout the state, but some counties won’t care and will operate under instructions to any permit holder until the permit is “validated”. police who deal with large populations of … “underclass” … will operate this way more often, while police/deputies in counties with other demographics may be quite comfortable with their armed citizens.
Actually, in many or most states the officer who is pulling you over probably knows before he speaks to you if you have a concealed permit. In our state I believe it’s tied to your driver’s license, which is tied to your vehicle plate. So unless you are driving a vehicle that is not yours, he likely knows.
My procedure for a traffic stop:
Have driver’s license, registration, and proof of insurance in hand well before stopping on side of road.
Crack driver’s side window a couple inches (before stopping) so that I can easily to talk to traffic cop.
Turn on interior lights at night and return both hands to steering wheel before stopping.
Make sure that I have and keep both hands on steering wheel (with license etc. in hand) once stopped unless the traffic cops tells me otherwise.
If the traffic cop tells me to do something, I repeat his/her order and verify that I understand him/her. Then I repeat the order again as I am doing it.
If the traffic cop tells me to reach anywhere in the vehicle (other than handing my license etc. to the window), I tell the traffic cop that I cannot comply with his/her order because it could justify him/her shooting me. Ask for an alternate method to assist that does not involve reaching anywhere into the vehicle. If the traffic cop insists that I reach into the vehicle, I continue to refuse, keep both hands on the steering wheel, and request a supervisor.
Above all else I will NOT reach for my handgun EVEN IF THE TRAFFIC COP TELLS ME TO DO SO.
If the traffic cop orders me to hand over my handgun “for officer safety”, I will NOT do it. I will inform the traffic cop that there is no safe manner in which I can reach for and hand-over my handgun. I will then tell the traffic cop that I will cooperate in some other fashion where he/she disarms me.
Disclaimer: the above is not “boot licking”. Rather, it is a strategy to ensure my survival and hence my ability to care for and protect my family. Being on the right side of the law does not do me any good if that results in my untimely demise. As Sun Tzu teaches us, if we are going to fight back against our enemy, we must do it at the time and place of our choosing. A traffic stop is most certainly NOT the time and place of MY choosing.
“I tell the traffic cop that I cannot comply with his/her order because it could justify him/her shooting me.”
is this just you being dramatic, or does your local department actually warrant this kind of approach? or … do you yourself actually warrant this kind of approach?
It’s common sense. I wouldn’t reach for my gun, either, regardless of the command. If a LEO wants to disarm me during a stop, his own hand will be the only one to be in contact with my gun. That’s for MY safety.
Do you really mean to say that YOU, whose hands know intimately your gun, location, carry rig,and every other detail about it, very well would prefer someone who knows none of that to be the one to hndle your handgun while it is that close to YOUR BODY? Crazy man, I’d say.
NO WAY wold I prefer anyone else but ME to handle that thing that close to my operson.
Tionico,
Every time I attend a gun course (two so far in 2022, with the next already scheduled) and an instructor wants to inspect my weapon, I raise my arm, turn my firing side toward him/her, and allow for him/her to remove my gun from the holster. I imagine it would be pretty simple to do the same for a LEO, and the LEO would appreciate it.
rant7,
I am not being overly dramatic. Neither do I warrant this kind of approach. I would also like to think that my local police departments do not warrant that level of caution, either.
Rather, I have seen videos of police who are clinically psychotic in my (unprofessional) opinion who draw down and sometimes even shoot people for doing nothing more than moving quickly toward them, not to mention shooting people who were reaching for something that was NOT a firearm.
The best example is the traffic stop where the driver stopped at a gas station and had exited his car. The traffic cop asked for the driver to produce his driver license which was in his wallet–which was still in his car. So the driver casually took a couple slow steps over to his car and reached in to retrieve his wallet–and the cop then opened up on him and shot him several times. The driver never indicated in any way, shape, nor form that he was armed or had a firearm in his vehicle. Neither did the driver actually have a firearm in his car.
“The traffic cop asked for the driver to produce his driver license which was in his wallet–which was still in his car. So the driver casually took a couple slow steps over to his car and reached in to retrieve his wallet–and the cop then opened up on him and shot him several times.”
sounds like something else was going on in the background there. outside of that, given your completely level-headed answer, I’ll take your word.
rant7,
I am not aware of anything else going on. The traffic cop simply lost his mind.
The name of the traffic cop is Sean Groubert and the victim is Levar Jones.
Mr. Groubert received a 5-year prison sentence and is no longer a South Carolina law enforcement officer.
Here is a link to Mr. Groubert’s dashcam video on YouTube:
I saw a recent update on this case where the officer was [appropriately] convicted over this shooting. Unfortunately, I don’t remember much more than this.
I would say that is a safe way to proceed no matter where one is. Too many cops are like Officer Pham. Nervous in the service. I got stopped once for going through a red light. It was either an emergency stop or blow the red light. There was no traffic at the intersection other than me and so I chose to blow the redlight. There was a cop parked somewhere that I didn’t see. When he stopped me he was shaking so badly I was truly concerned for my safety. He was screaming at me and I did everything I could to lower the intensity of the interaction. In my almost 70 years of driving I have been stopped several times and only twice have I had a bad interaction with the police. I have always operated under the principle that if you treat the officer the way you would like to be treated, you may not get a ticket. If you are threatening or abusive I guarantee a citation with at least one offense listed on it and possibly more if the cop is really ticked by your conduct.
It’s only human nature. How do you react when someone verbally abuses you?
I would like to comment on the case under discussion. It appears to me that the lady involved is a scofflaw. She not licensed to operate a motor vehicle. She is driving without her seatbelt on. She is driving while operating a mobile communication device, clearly a danger to the safety of others. I don’t know what other moving violations she was disregarding, I would suspect that her vehicle registration was expired and in MN has vehicle inspection, that too had lapsed. I am surprised that she had a firearms carry license given her apparent disregard for other regulations of an overcrowded metropolitan area.
On the other hand, I am glad that Officer Pham has apparently sought employment in a different field. He obviously is far too nervous to be entitled to carry a deadly sidearm and acting under the color of authority.
More proof that when you carry a gun with a permit the cops will panic and shoot first and ask questions later. This woman is really lucky to still be alive. There have been many people besides Philando Castile that were gunned down by cops just because they were legally carrying a handgun.
The real danger is not from criminals on the street its from the panicked cops when they find out you have a concealed carry permit.
There was a black man shopping with his girl friend that when in the store bent over and a panicked clerk saw his gun. She called the police and they gunned him down as he exited the store with no warning what so ever.
This is the down side of carrying a gun. it often makes you less safe.
And be honest its all too easy to start an argument or give the guy the finger in a road rage incident and then the other guy starts shooting at you or you start shooting first at him. It happens all the time. The infamous George Zimmerman was fired at in a road rage incident.
And one more comment. The Black Woman gave the Cop a hard time which escalated the situation. The last thing you ever want to do is start mouthing off to a power mad egoistical cop. Cops love to brutalize people and this gives the assholes an excuse to have fun and games with you by beating the hell out of you and laughing about it the rest of the day providing of course they do not panic and shoot and kill you on the spot.
I like reading your comments. It’s like kindergarten, all over again.
The solution is to ban all guns! And this amazing genius and hero will do it for us:
Should’ve been a million.
Cops do need better training for sure. However, this war on cops to include ‘defunding’ them along with a constant threat level associated with their job is hurting the situation. This is part of what is so aggravating about the craziness surrounding the NRA. Training cops is at the core of their purpose.
Now the general public needs training too. If your carrying firearms and a permit for it then I would have that permit and you DL ready to show the cop BEFORE he gets that close. Not all states require that. But not doing that can end up with you in an article like this.
Everyone across the board needs a bit of proper training in these areas. Otherwise bad things can happen.
“Everyone across the board needs a bit of proper training in these areas.”
agreed. but some say “training violates my RIGHTS!”
(and grid down, these people will be free to act out ….
Some say men are women too.
well, actually, if you look at the gestational development and the hormonal structure, they are. or rather they’re repurposed women.
I have never heard any SANE person claim that “training violates my rights.
I strongly maintain, howeve,r that state mandated training DOES indeed violate my rights. There are many ways to become competent and safe in the handling, trnspor,t, etc, of firearms besides taking the often ridiculous “training” mandated by gummit. I was forced to pay for and take the three huor “training” mandated by one state as a predoncition to issuing me their Mother May I Card. Some states mandate up to twelve hours of total”training”, and some minimum number of huors of live fire training. Total cost is more than a decent carry gun.To set as a precondition that everyone take the same predetermined course is what is wrong. Wecan ALL get training. Spend five bucks and get a well worn copy of any of the excelelnt handgun/concealed carry books out there. Many profitable drills to gain proficiency, tactics, etc….
you’re a self-starter, hey that’s great. but lots of people aren’t, and a training requirement ensures that SOME level of comprehension and competence is achieved, and that those who cannot achieve it are weeded out.
1. Don’t argue with a police officer who has drawn his/her gun on you, or even if they have not drawn their gun on you.
2. She isn’t a perfect angel but she did not deserve to be treated like this. There were some violations on her part, but nothing that warranted this kind of treatment.
2. She should have tried to sue them into oblivion, but the reality is she could have maybe gotten up to a few million from this in a lawsuit.
When you carry a gun, or apparently even have a permit, in exercising your constitutional rights I can understand a police officer noting that but going further and actually endangering your life and violating your rights and brutalizing you based purely upon the exercise of the 2A right is wrong. The world is a dangerous place, danger from all sorts of sources even the ones that are suppose to be protecting us.
If you get stopped around here, well, we don’t need permits in our state and don’t have a duty to notify either, but if the police see the gun or you tell them you are carrying the most they do is ask you to keep your hands visible on the steering wheel. Then when they finish writing the ticket, if they do, some of them will stick around to discuss guns with you.
.40 cal Booger,
“Then when they finish writing the ticket, if they do, some of them will stick around to discuss guns with you.”
I am in a weird state with schizophrenia which can be surprisingly conservative in some respects and surprisingly Progressive in other respects. With respect to firearms, it seems like most city, county, and state law enforcement personnel are not particularly concerned about armed citizens. Law enforcement attitude is typically blasé.
You might find this interesting, though. A neighbor called the Sheriff about another neighbor who was target shooting. A deputy showed up and respectfully engaged the neighbor who was shooting. Upon seeing a nice dirt berm backstop, obvious targets, and shooting table with all manner of rifles, the deputy was satisfied and had no concerns. Before walking away, the deputy noticed a very expensive/exotic long-range rifle chambered in .416 Barrett (which is .50 BMG necked down to .416). He could not resist and asked if he could take a shot before leaving. My neighbors happily obliged and all was well. Oh, and the neighbor who called the Sheriff: he never called the Sheriff again about target practice!
A .50 BMG necked down to .416?
What’s the barrel life? 250 rounds?
They outlawed the .50 bmg in CA. So people got creative and created long range target rifles based on the .50bmg case.
Geoff PR,
I looked up the .416 Barrett on WikiPedia. They indicate a muzzle velocity of 3150 feet-per-second (or thereabouts) with a “standard” load. That is a similar muzzle velocity to .243 Winchester (certain loads), .270 Winchester (130 grain bullets), and .300 Winchester Magnum. If I remember correctly, barrel life on those platforms is on the order of 2,000 rounds. I imagine barrel life is similar on .416 Barrett.
.416 Barrett reportedly has a flatter ballistic trajectory than .50 BMG, and more accurate according to one person who owns/shoots them and wrote an article about the two.
The only Barrett rifle I’ve ever had the opportunity to personally see with my own eyes and look at was in the Midwest, well into Free America and away from Kalifornia.
“some of them will stick around to discuss guns with you”
Hahahah! That happened to me. I blew a red light right in front of an officer, so I immediately pulled over to wait for him even before he pulled in behind me. When he walked up to my window, he asked if I knew why he stopped me. I told him yes, he stopped me because I was an idiot (well, I was).
I handed him by license and my permit. He asked why I was showing him my permit, and I reminded him that his department issued it to me and that I felt he had a right to know who he was dealing with. He asked if I was carrying and where, so I told him. He said just leave it where it is. After checking me out on his radio, he told me to watch my driving in the future and left me off with a warning.
The we talked guns for a few minutes.
All cops are not good guys or bad guys. There are some of each. I got the good type. Hodge got the bad type. It just as easily could have been the other way around. That’s why we need to promote the good cops and get rid of the bad ones.
Yup.
A few years ago, Dan Z, JWT, and a couple of other folks and I went shooting at an old rock quarry inside the Austin City Limits. (It’s on a fairly large piece of land, so shooting on it is grandfathered in because it was legal to do so before Austin annexed it, and the way the range was set up made it an *extremely* safe place to shoot.)
JWT had brought along a number of AR’s with giggle-switches (all legal, of course), and we were doing various drills where several people advance on the target in unison, while firing bursts as you advance. Needless to say, that made quite a bit of “interesting” noise.
After a while I noticed that three LE cars had come onto the property and parked about 100 yards away, with the officers taking up defensive positions behind them. We immediately called a cold range, put all the weapons on the shooting tables, stepped back and motioned them to approach (while, of course, keeping our hands where they could see them).
They quickly recognized that as we had permission to be on the property where shooting was legal and being done safely (and the FA stuff was all legit), we weren’t doing anything wrong. Once they realized we weren’t gangbangers or idiots, they were actually pretty cool about it (a couple of them were obviously gun guys/vets), and I suspect they would have liked to have stuck around and run a few drills with us.
Now imagine what the LE reaction would have been if this had been in, say, California . . . .
LKB, up here in the queens colonies we would’ve been executed on the spot, from the air (it’s the only way to be sure) and the ‘incident’ used by the idiot manchild to completely eradicate citizen owned firearms from the Realm. Plus airsoft. And racism. And misogyny. Because diversity is his strength.
Trust me, there still are some places in California where this scenario could, and likey has, played out many times. Don’t conflate the sordid comminustic mess in the big librull cities with what goes on ont in the more remote section of the state. I can think of quite a few places where just what you describe could have taken place. Sheriffs in many more rural counties are so good they should bein importing them into other areas that need law enforcement with heads bolted on tight and filled with honesty and common sense.
“Don’t argue with a police officer”
solves .99 of all police problems.
Did the officer think that violent criminals could get a carry permit?
Just possessing one puts you in the top 99% of the law abiding.
some departments direct their officers to detain anyone carrying.
What is “Park Board police”? Couldn’t make it as a mall cop so park popo?
https://www.minneapolisparks.org/park_care__improvements/park_police__safety/
One of dumbest things I’ve ever heard. And ARMED playground monitors. Got an MRAP?
The first two cops on scene for the St. George Floyd flustercuck were Park Board cops. Add in the Transit cops who make Serpico seem mellow, and you’ll have a clue why I avoid Mpls and St. Paul unless absolutely necessary, even though I currently live 12 miles north of both. I think even the animal control cops carry an M4 in their rigs.
Oh, then there’s the Hennepin County. sheriff that recently totalled his unmarked driving drunk while returning from a “seminar” a few weekends back. Hours after the incident, he registered double the bac limit. Somehow , at his hearing TWO days later, was allowed to plead down to a misdemeanor, keeping his drivers and leo licenses valid, has to pay for the $70,000 squad over the next eight years, and refused to step down or even discuss the incident any further. Like I indicated previously, they get a yes sir, no sir, fuck you very much sir. Oh, and I believe that even the smallest township department in Minnesota has an MRAP.
Pb_fan59,
Regarding your Sheriff that was allegedly driving drunk and crashed:
There was a car driving erratically in a rural region of my state. A local Sheriff Deputy pulled over the car. The driver was a county Sheriff lieutenant from another part of the state–and he was clearly intoxicated and should not be driving. Of course he tried to play the, “I am a big-shot cop and you should let me go,” card. The deputy was having none of it. Mr. Big-shot police lieutenant got seriously busted for drunk driving–as he should. Oh, and his agency revoked his badge and law enforcement license.
Can you post the entire body camera video?
I notice from the one screen capture of the woman’s back as she is face first on the ground, that she is wearing a rather thin, clingy, somewhat less than opaque blouse without a bra. Viewing the entire video might be very amusing.
@Elmer Fudd
Pervy much?
😂
Likely. And I think you have just “hit” on the REAL reason she got demanded out of the car. His eyes were WAY too sharp for his own good. If he culd spot her Mother May I Card that easily, what ELSE were his prying eyes stroking?
Makes me wonder just a tad whether this aspect of the “incident” might not have played a part in the easy settlement, severe lowering of charges, and quick dismissal of the big-eyed dirty copper. Seeing as to hw this happened in Hennepin County I cannot help but think the full story goes a touch deeper than what we see here…..
Cop way over-reacted, IMHO. I didn’t see anything in the video that warranted him going from 0 to “DON’T MOVE, DIRTBAG” in the blink of an eye.
Yeah, I agree that she shouldn’t have continued to argue with the cop. That’s never a winning strategy. Still, I think she handled herself fairly well, given the circumstances.
100k is a pretty decent payout, and Pham is no longer a police officer. I think this one is a win overall.
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. People get cop guns stuck in their face and sometimes shot by same guns because they wont shut the f#ck up.
Crappy town, crappy LEOs. Culture matters.
I’ve gotten pulled over three times in the last couple of weeks because reasons. As a standard procedure, I have my drivers license, LTC, and insurance card in hand before the officer comes to my door. The last three times, the officers have responded to my carry license in the following ways:
1. “Yeah I don’t need that *hands LTC back*
2. “Just so I know, where’s the firearm located? *No further comment*
3. *Hands LTC back immediately with no comment*
Dang, I love Texas.
Three times in just the past couple of weeks? I haven’t been pulled over since 1995. Like, literally 27 years.
Methinks you might be the common denominator of your “being pulled over” problem.
It’s been since 1986 for me. Part of it’s been doing what I should and not doing what I shouldn’t, and part of it’s been luck. Yes, I go over the speed limit but within reason, and I don’t always come to a complete stop when I should, but in general I drive carefully and not like a fool. In my younger years I drove drunk a time or two, the dumbest thing I’ve ever done, and was darn lucky I wasn’t caught. Haven’t drunk alcohol for literally decades, so don’t have to worry about that anymore.
If you encounter a cop who wants to pull you over just because, he/she can create any reason to justify it. Your light is/was out, inattentive driving, etc., are all easy things to make up.
“Methinks you might be the common denominator of your “being pulled over” problem.”
What’re you a cop or something?
Nah, Haz is a know-it-all that likes to comes here to brag. Like he did in that comment.
I was a cop for 23 years. Scared ass punk ass cops like this idiot make it hard on everyone.
He is the kind of cop that would piss in his pants when we had a real problem. It never hurts to give anyone a break. For God’s sake a carry permits means I AM NOT A CRIMINAL i have been vetted!!!!
Push me I will tell what I really think.
“Push me I will tell what I really think”
feel free. ‘specially like to hear from the leo’s.
Suspended license and possession of a controlled substance, she is a criminal.
Driving while black.
This guy was off the chain. I remember once a guy pulled out in front of me. I had to stand on the brakes. We had a rule. If you almost cause the deputy have a traffic crash you get pulled over. (One of the few perks of being an LEO was “correcting” asshole drivers. Especially when I drove an unmarked.) He handed me his DL and his CCW. I handed him his CCW back and said, “I didn’t ask you for this.” Him, “I just thought you should know I have a gun.” Me, “Really? What make make/model/caliber?” After a ten minute conversation about handguns I said, “Don’t pull out in front of me again, or I will write you a citation for violation of right-of-way.” Then sent him on his way.
Isn’t it amazing how well things end up, even if we initially screwed-up, when we respond calmly and respectfully?
straight up.
Part 1
This stupid British import just set himself on fire. He just destroyed his own campaign.
“Candidate Martin Hyde apologizes for ‘belligerent and rude’ behavior toward officer who pulled him o.” video 1 min long
I watched the entirety of both videos: wow, that guy is a Class “A” douchebag.
It is one of countless examples where we see how the Ruling Class does not expect the rules to apply to them.
We’ve certainly seen how they feel about Covid restrictions. I hope they don’t let that dbag anywhere near public office again. His “apology” was even a joke.
Absolutely—glad that he self-identified.
Not the apology he needed to make, good luck with politics.
It was the Jekyle in him whut dun it.
Part 2
You can watch the entire 16 minute video if you wish like I did. This guy was featured on TTAG just two weeks ago!!!
This British import loser can go back to the UK for all I care. I will not comment on the skin color of the people involved.
‘You know who I am?’: Congressional candidate Martin Hyde threatens cop’s career during traffic stop. video 16 min long
😬
Now I’m all curious about the muted conversation after he drives off in a big huff. Probably an unapologetic assessment of his attitude regarding the whole interaction. He played it diplomatically while taking the driver’s complaint but I wonder what his private opinion was given the facts and conversation.
Everything about that story and video is absurd.
She’s a jerk, immediate attitude even though she knows she has several violations, suspended license, hands free phone, seat belt, and when pointed out immediately breaks out the excuse roladex, but I’ve never been pulled over before, but my GPS…moron.
I don’t favor those rules, but there they are, not gonna win that battle at the car.
The attitude and demeanor at the car and out of the car seem completely out of sync with the interview where she’s almost quivering and crying.
The cops actions are unreal, of course he gets to resign, not fired, and no formal record of his preposterous over the top response. His license is inactive? Not revoked?
So no formal or official understanding that this event took place, does that mean in the future he could get a job as a cop and this would never come up?
The whole situation is disgusting, jerk meets bigger jerk.
The author states:
“She handled a very stressful incident pretty well.”
Really?
How the ***k else did you think she handle it I mean she had weed in the vehicle and was likely stoned out of her coconut.
Here we go again another “urban” criminal gets a pay-day at taxpayer’s expense because an “import” (thanks Lutherans) overreacted.
I was recently stopped by an az.state trooper for speeding on hwy 60 doing 85 in a 60. When he approached on the passenger side he noticed a loaded mag I had in the center console. He responded if it was for a pistol I had in the car? I asked if wanted to see it and he declined. He didn’t ask for a carry permit but we are a constitutional carry state. He issued me a warning for speeding and left. None of the hand on his gun or calling for backup. Yavapai county sheriff are just as casual regarding firearms.
I live in a duty to inform state, it’s the first thing you shoulda of said to the officer. I am a valid CPL holder and I do or do not have a weapon.
Failure to do so in my state and they will take your CPL
I don’t know why anyone wastes the time responding to Dacian. It’s a futile argument and he won’t change his warped Gay view of the world.
I don’t even bother reading his comments anymore.
Many wiser than me men, have stated: “It’s better to be silent and though a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt.”
Let Dacian play the fool. We’re wiser than that Amadan.
“As for Pham, he resigned in November, 2021. His law enforcement license is currently inactive according to the Minnesota Peace Officers Standards and Training Board.”
What needs to happen is that he needs to have his LE credentials de-certified. I’m not holding my breath. Too many grossly incompetent officers resign then take their train wreck to another agency.
Here’s what I want to know – was the marijuana possession charge fabricated or was she actually in possession thereof? As far as I’m concerned, possession of controlled substance, use thereof and DUI/DWI are legitimate grounds for permanent revocation of carry permit. I agree that the officer’s actions were inappropriate, but was she actually in possession? If so, I don’t believe that she has the right to carry anymore, just my two cents.
WHEW THA COMMENTS . OFFUCER UUUUH AAAA . SHOULD HAVE KEPT COOL AN KEEP TO THE POINT , DRIVER LICENCE , INSURANCE , REGISTRATION , AND LADY SHOULD KEEP INFORMATION UP TODATE , CURENT DRIVER LICENCE , ALWAY SHOW YA LTC WITH ID .
YEA SHE DESERVIES THA MULLA $$$ , HOPE OFFICER LEARNED FROM HIS BOOBOO.
Dacian must be an acronym for some this:
Dumbass can’t identify as normal
I wonder how often this happens when a guy is pulled for “Driving While Black”?
Personally, I would have held out for $500K…. The police departments need a stronger message sent that this kind of behavior by officers employed by us via taxpayer dollars to protect us instead victimize us.
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